 Hey friends, this is Dan Stephanie Burke. You're watching behind the scenes divine intimacy radio today We got we have a real spectrum at the Q&A show, but everything from demonic possession to Revealing mystical experiences To marriage, you know, it's just it's across the board So we'll start on that in just a minute before we get rolling. I wanted to tell you about a Course at the Abil Institute taught by Dr. Elizabeth Mitchell and she's Extraordinary living at the hand of the Lord the life and thought of Saint Edith Edith Stein if I was a betting man I would bet that there's a high likelihood that she ends up as a doctor of the church before I before I go to my final judgment but so she's going to be talking about and Giving an overview of her life her philosophy of women which profoundly influenced Pope John Paul the second and her philosophy of art and beauty so Dr. Mitchell is a brilliant woman God be praised giving us wisdom and insight into another brilliant woman saint so Check that course out it it it you have to apply by May 10th And it's Friday's at 8 30 p.m. Eastern. So it's late if you're on the East Coast and Just dandy if you're on the West Coast or someplace else in the world School of spiritual formation course. So it's it's personal enrichment Which makes it a little less intense than our graduate study stuff So Abil a dash Institute org is the place to go you have anything else that you wanted to tell them about before We jump into our Q&A No, just Well, yes, since I'm speaking. Yeah, I said no and then I started speaking apparently I do have something Okay, I'm just to check out all of our events Wherever we're gonna be wherever you and I travel to speak and we've got a lot coming up. Yeah They can find those at spiritualdirection.com forward slash events We do have a marriage retreat coming up in Rhode Island soon. You'll you'll want to check that out To one in Trinidad Tobago one is coming in Ottawa one I heard down, you know down the pike probably next year. We'll be having one in Grand Rapids We just had one in Australia So there are plenty of events coming and especially on the marriage retreat if if you would like your marriage to be better If you're languishing a little bit and need some answers and some help If you're beginning your marriage if you've been at it for a long time if you've been at it You know lost ground and now you're back at it Come to the marriage retreat I think you're gonna be delighted and the fruit from it is Extraordinary because of the Holy Spirit not because these two broken instruments are leading it, but rather The Lord's doing a mighty thing. Yeah, as he is with all of our ministry I'm we're just so incredibly blessed. We are so the Lord is just so generous and kind He is standards are way low The people he works with I mean at least speaking for myself Well, you know, you just wrap me in there because we're one so okay, you know, all right Well, let's go ahead and jump into the show on your market set go this is Dana Stephanie Burke Welcome to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rest your hermitage of the heart your monastery of the mind Where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints to help us navigate the tumult of this life Today is a Q&A show That means we have cues and a's and incredible cues. They these are these range of I just placed over these and I went Wow, we're just kind of hitting it all So very cool. So I'll give you the first one. I'll take the second one. We'll just see how it goes from there. Okay Do you have any advice? With dealing with intrusive thoughts during prayer or at mass So here's some Some encouragement in that area if you have had an intrusive thought during prayer or at mass The good news is I can officially welcome you to the human race. Yeah Okay, so you are alive. You're alive. You're you're not broken. There's not something wrong Yeah It is part of our human condition They can be revealing they can be helpful You know, they couldn't they can show us where we have attachments. Yeah, they can show us where We have worries or regrets anxiety anxiety. They can show us Where the enemy is trying to lead us astray or where he's trying to divide us if it's between us And someone else, you know, all of it can be all of the intrusive thoughts whether in prayer and mass Can be helpful for us in order to understand what we need to renounce reject Not worry about surrender to the to the grace of God or where we may need to do some work Right if it's kind of a repeat thing like every time we go to prayer All we can think about is our son who's away from the church, right or our daughter who who has done something That's breaking her heart or whatever or our husband who you know has not decided to Get with the program and start his prayer life, you know, whatever it is, right? So but what do we do with them? What do we do with them? as with any kind of intrusive thought we Become aware So be aware of the thought Understand what it is either either an attack or What is it? You know, where's this? What is the kind of voice behind it? Is it of God? Is it lead us towards faith hope and love? Or does it do the do the opposite where it leads us towards doubt despairing narcissistic? thoughts or behaviors or feelings and If it's not of the Lord then we reject it we we so be aware Understand it then take action. So being aware is taking paying attention. What is that thought? understanding it taking action and getting rid of it, especially if it is Keeping us away from prayer and keeping us away from being attentive at mass I would assume that because it says in truth, right? So it is We can understand that the enemy what he would love to do is to keep us from praying Teresa of Avila had Obtrusive thought every saint out there has probably written or spoken about it in some way so when we start to grow in our Devotion in our piety in our desire to be holy in our desire to follow the Lord the enemy will work against you and So when that happens you push it out of your mind and you go to the Lord It push it out of your mind and say a Hail Mary push it out of your mind reject it and Go to the Lord and just simply and it doesn't need to be violent. It's just a gentle get out You know in the name of Jesus get out of my mind and you go back to being attentive That gentleness of that rejection and going back to the Lord is Often enough because the Lord's going to meet us in that grace and he's going that was great That's exactly what I want you to do and then he gives us the grace to be more attentive, right? so yeah a few other things if If you're having trouble getting a handle on your thoughts Meaning the tapes start to roll and you don't have the ability to control it that it probably an indicator you need some assistance whether it be Deliverance work or some counseling or spiritual direction Something to figure out, you know where that's coming from and how to get rid of that if you don't have the ability to control it Yeah, if you do if you just say in Jesus name Or just redirect yourself gently then then you you don't need to worry about it too much All right, the next question which all you once you read that one Okay, I'll take a shot and then how do you differentiate between intense demonic oppression and demonic Possession which requires an exorcism. So if you're like walking up walls and stuff like that That's that would be possession. I'm kidding. That would be bad spinning heads. Damn. No, don't do that. No, okay, you know that's not everything not everything in the Exorcist was real. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of it was real. So Yeah, I mean On the radio did diagnosing these things doesn't really work The you can give some universals, but it's not for a lay person to diagnose these things If you suspect someone is possessed, that's not something you do It's if the manifestations are that bad You need someone you need an exorcist and they have specific techniques they use to Elicit the the response of a demon that can tell them whether or not a person is possessed so if if your oppression is that bad or you know oppression or or Symptoms that are that severe That you're wondering what's the difference how to differentiate I would Go contact your diocese and get In in to see their deliverance team and get diagnosed that sort of thing Yeah, I think the first thing you should do is go make a really good examination of conscience and go to confession Sure, because confession is more powerful than exorcism exorcism is is a sacramental Confession is a sacrament and a lot of people don't even realize that and and I think too We need to understand that when people are struggling with oppression Of any kind where they're struggling where they would even need to ask this question It may be that they are They're not in a state of grace maybe there's stuff going on They don't even realize what they've what they've participated in they don't understand that some of the things that they behaved in or Contributed to or participated in in the past has actually caused terrible oppression in their life But if you go and find a really good examination of conscience, I know that we have some on our site Yeah, possibly VA dot org forward slash exam ex-am is a very in-depth Treatment very in-depth Examination of conscience. Yeah, so do a really good examination of conscience go to confession and what? What often will happen is people will go do that and get back involved with the sacraments and they will see sure the problems that They've been experiencing the oppressive feelings the you know a lot of stuff even Depression lift. Yeah, and they'll be shocked and and not realize how much they had on them but some of the signs of True possession are So I don't know if it's supernatural or supernatural Knowledge things that people couldn't possibly understand understanding of foreign languages that are not normal Understanding information that they wouldn't know yeah, and then other manifestations. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, the the key is just you know get back right with the Lord Yeah, as Stephanie said foundationally exorcism The the sacrament of penance is more powerful actually than exorcism. Did you already say that? I did I did it's worth repeating and Even recently I heard of an exorcism and you know, we've we have plenty of exorcists that are great friends of ours beautiful holy priests That have said, you know Really if somebody is unwilling to go to confession They're unwilling to get back right with the Lord an exorcism is not gonna help them, right? It's not because you have to desire to be free and if you can't in humility go to Confession you're gonna you know they can pray over you all day long, but it's gonna be tough Yeah, and and it won't come until you decide your freedom won't come until you decide Yeah surrender to God and you know that so okay Yeah, you know that might have been that might have been Jordan Okay, so When you married Dan, that's me. Yeah case people were wondering, okay was night white life now perfect Being married to a Catholic man. Oh, yeah, how we totally rode off into the sunset Never had an argument. Oh, we automatically started, you know levitating and by locating the harmony I mean it was like you we heard birds singing birds singing and I think chant was emanating just from us Yeah, not a chance Um, so I'm I'm assuming that this question is coming after I gave my testimony on it. Yeah, oh, I think that is that was If you don't know part of my story because that even wasn't that was just like a fraction of my story Check it out on there. It might be helpful and hopeful to you but No, that's absolutely not true when we got married and we do talk about this in our marriage Retreat Dan brought, you know, his baggage and and his stuff from his past and I brought my baggage and my stuff The one thing that we knew though was that Christ was the only way and That we were going to hold on for dear life and make Christ the center of our home That's what we knew Christ was the way and we were going to find a way to the way Together and we were going to hold on for dear life. So we both Immediately got into spiritual direction. We had a daily prayer life and there were so many battles Too many to recount But I do remember at one point going out into the out to the car to have a terrible fight I was just you screaming. I was just there calm. No, we were both screaming and and but we were in the car So that our kids wouldn't hear us, right? I think that you know, so it was tough But the Lord is merciful and so we call it so strong. Well does the issue we call it fighting toward each other Yes fighting toward each other. So without we'll be we'll be back in a minute Yeah, and we'll continue with this these Q&A's all right For those in the waiting room. No, there is no waiting room Just wanted to remind you living at the hand of the Lord life and thought of st. Edis Stein Carmelite st. Extraordinaire brilliant woman of God apply by Friday, May 10th 2024 At Avila dash Institute org Okay, let's jump back in so as we go back in I want to add something to this question. So to the one about the care Perfect Catholic me Okay on your mark is that go this Dennis Stephanie Burke welcome back to divine intimacy radio Question before the break was is it just amazing and perfect being married to me a Catholic man? Especially at the beginning right of our marriage. No, and I wanted to add this As I think about it what we had working for us was not only that we wanted Christ to be the center of our home but that we were dogged in The pursuit of virtue rooting out sin, yeah Just being authentic disciples be authentic disciples going to confession praying the rosary Having a sacred space in our home, you know all the things that Dan writes about and that we've that we talk about We're doing we were doing we don't we don't talk the talk and then not walk the walk Right, we don't share anything with you that we're not doing ourselves And so we did that and I remember in particular Sitting our kids down around the dining dinner table and we looked at all of them and we said listen on On Dan said on my side of the family, you know, we can count X Y Z like eight divorces Just even between the your two parents, I think and between mine. I could count One so Five five on my side and so we made a commitment to the kids right there as our witnesses We said we are eradicating this out of our life We are here. We will be here for you and we will be here for one another Period stops with us. It stops with us and we're not passing this on You know, if you pick it up, that's your problem, but we're not we're not passing it on and That commitment that doggedness to persevere To the point of shedding blood. We lived it. It was hard. It was a it was a crucifixion It was a purging but boy was it worth it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just can't imagine a better marriage I just can't you know Now now but even but even just even in that I mean, I loved you and It was hard and I didn't want to run away. I didn't want to leave I wanted to be purge of my own brokenness and thank God for spiritual direction Yeah, and really holy priests that helped us. So anyway, okay, so we can ask the next question And I'll give it a shot. Okay, so st John of the cross says we should ignore mystical experiences of the imagination and intellect When should one share mystical experiences with others? I am writing a book quote that are in parentheses that I've discussed with my spiritual director about my experiences journey and testimony Okay, so you answered the question in the question John of the cross says we should ignore them so that would mean by definition We shouldn't write about them or be public about them and and and that's a common Prescription and the reason is is because one Both John of the cross Terez other great saints have said that when you encounter God in a powerful way You don't Terez has this beautiful kind of Imagery related to it is if you're walking along a path and you in a flower and you find a beautiful flower You don't and you're heading toward God You don't stop and camp out with that flower. You just thank the Lord and you keep moving John of the cross the reason he advises against sharing mystical experiences is Because the the the second the you become aware of the grace the work is already done in you and then after that we have a tendency Because the this is my own phrase, but the human person has an infinite capacity for self-delusion, but John of course Describes this condition so we begin to mow it around we distort it and change it, you know, there are rare exceptions like Teresa of Avila was was Commanded under obedience to write about her interior life and help others But I just generally speaking because of pride and other problems I would never I can't imagine a situation where I would recommend a directee write about mystical experiences I don't know what are your thoughts? Well, I can't I can't speak to that because I don't know this person. I don't know they're saying to tea I don't I'm not their spiritual director. So I I can't say that Um, I I think there's a difference between writing about our mystical experiences and writing our testimony Yes, you can tell you testimony is important testimony and and the way God worked in you or or awakened you or Um, you know rebuked you loved you healed you those are all good things all those things are good things and I speak about it Yeah, you know, I I had a moment that that really I I was thinking wrongly and I did have an experience that set me right in my thinking and it Had an immediate impact. I immediately changed course and it bore incredible fruit. Right. Um, so You know that I testify about that because when I testify about that I'm teaching especially women how the lord Watches just wants us to think about our relationship with him and our husband our children Our vocation and all of that those things are important. So I think it's There's a difference between Oh, I'm having these images and You know messages and messages and I'm focusing on the messages and that, you know, those are few and far between and the difference Between that and giving your testimony To testify to what God has done in your life and how it has changed and what the fruit has been So it's not really about You know, I'm special in my and God's giving me mystical experiences But rather I'm a sinner and this is how he called me to conversion And I hope by my test by my testimony that I can help you Find the grace and the goodness that I have found Through this this experience. Yeah. Yeah, the other issue With that's well said the other issue with all of this is it we tend to become attached when we focus too much on mystical experiences I've had I've known people who've had profound mystical experiences and the one way that I test their authenticity is is by counseling them as john of the cross did to Not talk about it anymore and keep moving forward. Yeah And if they if they resist that there tend to be it's their attachment begins to show very quickly They want to talk about it all the time. That's an attachment. That's really disordered um, I don't have any issue of course with the way because I know you're talking about a The experience that you had you don't talk about it in any way like oh, I'm special I received a mystical revelation you do As you noted rightly said It's a very sober discussion you give And the issue isn't the the A sort of a special message from god. It is that you You that I was Sinning in the way. I was approaching my vocation and you learned Through an intervention if you will The proper orientation of your heart mind and energy Um, but it wasn't you know, it's not like well The stock market's going to crash next week or the antichrist is coming or you know, or I was told that I'm you know I'm after mary. I'm the holiest woman on the planet or whatever. You know those sorts of things are problematic and weird years wasn't that in the category and and and really um and going back to saint john of the cross what he part of the thing is Is that when when when we experience some mystical experience and many people actually do that are really percing the lord When that happens between the moment that it happens and we perceive it, you know with our senses There's there's this split second of time Which in which the enemy can come distort it twist it turn it upside down change the meaning But we need not be disturbed because whatever the lord intended by that experience Had its effect before we even noticed it and you don't need to understand and we don't need to understand it So we can rest a short. Oh That was a grace. Does it lead me to greater? Faith hope and love. Okay. I'm just going to be at peace and I'll give an example I'll give one more example. Sure. I had a directee years and years and years ago That had a mystical experience Um, she was pursuing the lord. She was praying. She was following the sacrament. So she was going from good to better and she believed that she saw Christ uh with the crown of thorns, you know and saw his face And proceeded to tell everybody Everybody about it. You know, he appeared to me appeared to me all while she was living a very disordered relationship with her husband Her kids. She was very prideful Um, and I and I expressed to her as her spiritual director. I said, please don't share that with anybody else This is st. John the crosses teachings You know, put it aside She argued with me. She fought with me. She disappeared like she didn't come back and I let her go I didn't chase her down. I kid you not. She reached out to me five years later Through a text and I no longer had her number in my phone and she said Stephanie this is so and so you may not remember me blah blah blah and she said I just want you to know That you were right and I'm so sorry and and um, I just want you to know that that I am Trying to live a rightly ordered life and eradicates in and whatever. So the lord still brought the grace But probably through a very painful Humiliation and brokenness in her life So he still gets his way Which is such a beautiful thing about the lord, but um, we don't need to be standing on soapboxes Um, sharing that with everybody. Yeah, the other thing that happens with mystical experiences that people tend to think they're more, um, mature Because they receive them and it's it's it's a grace for me. I guess maybe a little bit of a protection But I experienced some profound I had some profound experiences that I don't talk about and I don't need to When I was a young catholic and I and I was you know, I would say still wrestling with habitual mortal sin or trying to exit that And I I had crazy experiences But you know, I don't have and I don't have those anymore and I'm a lot more Stable spiritually than I was back then. Yeah So therese ababala teaches this of course as well in the interior castle That mystical experiences are no measure of your maturity At all what's what's the greatest measure of your maturity in christ's love and how you love How you love others not, you know Strange or interesting or supernatural experience your ability of self denial and self giving. That's exactly right. So So, yeah, it's just something we shouldn't be focused on and with that We're just about out of time If you want to grow in the interior life and you want to know the wisdom of the saints Please check out abala institute.org if you're looking for on fire catholic community across the globe A group of people who are dedicated to the interior life and helping you in yours and Even free courses though. They're they're recorded not like the avalanche too, but they are free The apostolate va community if you have a pulse you're welcome to check it out It's a p o s t o l i v i a e dot work And anyone can join priest religious and laity. We have thousands all over the planet Seeking to grow together in christ and with that our time is up until next time may the god of peace Make you perfect in holiness May he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our lord Jesus christ amen amen