 Court so we are now recording. Hello everyone. So the first order of business here is to review the minutes from last time and also pick a new minute taker. And I do not remember who did it last time. Sarah I believe Yeah, um, so Darcy, I think that puts puts you next unless you want to try to switch with someone since I know you missed last time. Because it doesn't matter for this. Oh, I think you're muted. Darcy just did it the time before last I think Don't think I'm next. Yeah, no Darcy did it and then Sarah did it. Okay, so then the next would be Jesse's at you. Or Steve or Steve. I'm not even attempting to do enough. I'm like, I'm not even attempting to I've only got one hand. My other hand's in a suit. I'm not going to be very fast at typing or writing. Okay, Jesse, then I think you're sorry. Which do Yeah, you okay, Steve. Yeah, I just had rotator cuff repair surgery two weeks ago. So I'm two weeks into six weeks with arm in a sling all the time. Hopefully that positive move. Well, I hope so. Yeah, I hope after six months I'll be back and better where I was. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long, long recovery. Yeah. Okay, do folks want me to show the minutes or are people scrolling on their own thumbs up if anybody wants me to share the minutes. Nope. Okay. Does anybody want a motion to accept or does anyone have any comments? I would move to accept the minutes as written. Stephanie, do you want to do the vote? Sure. So I'm not doing it in alphabetical order. Drucker. Yes. Selman. Dumont. I think Jesse, I think you actually have to, sorry, you have to unmute yourself. Okay. Thanks. Dumont. Roof. Yes. Berger. Yes. Der. Yes. Okay. They passed. Laura, so we do have one public participant this evening, Sarah Ross. Hi, Sarah. But Sarah has stated that she does not want to speak. She's just going to listen this evening. And I was wondering if we could move Brianna up in the agenda even before my report so that she doesn't have to. Sort of wait for too long and we can move to the communications agenda item. Sure. That sounds good to me. So Brianna, if you're with us, we're going to move you up front. I am here. Hello, everyone. Hi. Hello. So my name is Brianna Sunred. Many of you I've met, but I'll just introduce myself for anybody who's attending who I have not met. I work for the town and the capacity of communications manager, as well as community participation officer out of the town manager's office as well as the information technology office and thank you for inviting me here today. So I guess I can just jump in real quick Brianna, because I can give an overview of why we invited you. We had had a discussion about having a website presence a while back. And so I had said that I would reach out and have a conversation with Brianna. And we talked about what some other committees have done, some of the things you were looking for. We mentioned dashboards. So I thought it would be helpful To just sort of let Brianna know about the things that you're interested in doing and she can sort of give you some feedback on what's feasible. What is it? And I don't know, Bri, if you had an example to show them teed up or anything. Sure, I can certainly I can show certainly do that. I mean, with our committees. Pages right now boards and committee pages run the gamut from just having a charge and agendas and minutes and the a table of who the current members are Versus for example, one example I like to use is public art commission where they have a more expanded web presence. They have, you know, a gallery. They have multiple pages. So that's an example of a border committee that has many more pages than kind of just that standard, you know, charge Committee membership and staff liaison description. So those those are I can I can pull that up. If you think it's valuable Stephanie to share Maybe we can take a look at one example and then maybe we could also pull up their page as well. And maybe that will help facilitate some of the discussion. Sure. So why don't you just give me one second to have those keyed up and I can share my screen. I just heard a rumble of thunder my way. So I'm hoping I don't lose you all It's clear skies up here in North Amherst for now, at least Okay, just a second. While I get this pulled up for you. Okay, so I'm going to have energy climate action committees page pulled up as well as the the public art. I'll start with public art just to give you an example of A committee or a commission that has a deeper more I guess I would say visual or interactive presence. So let me share my screen with you. Okay, so right now, hopefully everybody can see the public art commission web page. We've done a number of things with the public art commission and some of their projects over the years. So we've used various different methods of outreach or, you know, soliciting applications for some of their projects using Modules on our website, for example, web forms for people to submit or request to exhibit their art or to sign up for some of the You know activation projects on the electric boxes throughout town. They also Have the information that I described previously. That's kind of your, your standard format in terms of mission or charge as well as memberships membership information. But they do have more of a reach where they Have forms that I mentioned where community members can submit to Have their art as part of the town hall exhibits. And I'll go back just We have a featured artist page that highlights those Art exhibitors who have come into town hall and, you know, lately. The last few turns have been obviously a remote experience. So we had a video put on the site for the most recent exhibit since it wasn't actually in town hall. And then they just go on to have a couple, a couple more pages. We've got a an Amherst art tour that was created that we have embedded on their pages. So I guess this would be kind of the opposite end of the the spectrum and in terms of boards and committee page. So there's a number of things we can do, especially if there's outside resources that the committee Is interested in having if there's videos if there's anything that you know lives on another site, a dashboard, a YouTube video, we can, you know, A walking tour such as this art tour. We can have that live under a committee's page or a suite of pages that we can create. I'll pause there. I'll pop over to the energy climate energy and climate action committees page. Again, just to reference this is we've got the the charge the membership agenda's minutes packets and recordings and just a little bit more about the The charge here, I'll spelled out. So I'm happy to, you know, answer any any questions or if we want to dig into a certain element of any of these Feel free. I have a question. If if we were to put we decided to say we wanted to put latest news or latest developments is who is able to access and write new text or content on this website. So traditionally, for the most part, for boards and committees, it goes through their, their staff liaison. There are other, you know, let's say you have wanted a news category. We do have the capability to set up a news category that's specific to your committee and your work that community members can subscribe to And that's a that's a different module, but just to give it a little context of what that looks like. I'll show you on my screen here. We have a notify notify me page. So just as an as an example to reference what you just said you could have an ECAC or however you want to be called notifications category where any community member could come here, see that on the list of options or it can be marketed as a very specific Sign up. So, for example, in your, you know, meeting packet or email communication, you could have click here to sign up for ECAC news and that's a separate module. But it can also be linked on your page. So that's certainly something that we can do. I would suggest that the content, whether it's created by the committee would funnel through The staff liaison for dissemination. It looks like we've lost Stephanie. Yeah. Okay, Darcy, go ahead. I just am wondering if there's a way that we can have a presence on the home page because I did not know that that That page existed and I don't know whether there's a way to, and I know you probably advertise it on social media. But I think that if there's a way for us to have a have a really visible dashboard that is visible at least partially on the home page, then, you know, we get a lot more visibility. Also, there's a there is a page that I've just been looking for it. I can't find it that Concord is using that is a it's a community. It's an interactive community dashboard that is That's setting goals for residents and businesses and there's a, you know, there's a There's a goal set in each area and then you can kind of watch participation increasing in whatever the action area is, which seems like a cool thing to do. Yeah, so definitely, we're in the process of hopefully in the next few weeks, we'll be doing a design and aesthetic design refresh of all of our pages. So this will look a little different coming forward. We'll have the opportunity to better highlight, you know, trending topics, have tiles for Topical information or timely seasonal information. So things will look slightly different as far as what you can access through the home page. We are also in the process right now in aligning aligning the town council's goals into a strategic plan that would have a dashboard. So, for example, climate action would be one of those dashboard items. They'd be more of a stand alone. Site experience, so to say, and a lot of the communities who are using dashboards, you'll see that it might be either linked on their homepage, but you are brought to a different website. So one of the things we hope and plan to do is to outline the major goals that have been set and put out those objectives and also track the measures and performance and climate action would be included in that process. You might be speaking, speaking to a more specific dashboard to the work that you're all doing as a committee, but this is something we will be doing townwide in the months to come. I hope that answers your question, but feel free to Yeah, yeah, no, I just think that And we might want to come up with some kind of a logo or title to our climate action as they've done in in Concord, which I cannot remember right now, but it has something to do with revolution Which just highlights the climate action Darcy, if I can just jump in and I'm so I apologize we lost power and I got dumped out of the meeting and I'm having to use my phone now so So Concord and a few other communities that have dashboards and I think I've talked to you all about this before are using the KLA associates template And that is a fairly pricey dashboard to use I think there's an annual fee. I know when I looked at it at one point it was around $10,000 and then there's an annual fee and that's just to establish it and then there's an annual fee on top of that so The communities that I know that have used it have done it through some of their grant funding. So it's not to say we can't do something like that. But I think it's it's not something I think the town can just easily produce and I'm sorry I know I saw what you were showing Brianna and if it means we're putting something up on the stage that would be that would be great and that might be a temporary measure Until we could do something more fancy like KLA's version Yeah, the name of it is mass energized In Stephanie and I have taken a look at some of the the dashboards that she she did mention I think it was through KLA which are really really well done obviously not done in house by most of the communities so You know hopefully in the future we have increased capacity and internally to do things like that and at least accommodate A portion of that through the through the dashboard that will be setting up for the The five or six goals I can't remember at the top of my head at the moment with climate action being one of those so having A space on that dashboard will definitely be a step in the right direction if not really being the standalone one that you're looking for at this time. And breeze or any kind of I mean I think you mentioned that the websites getting updated but It you know I think there's probably a larger challenge of just communicating on the website generally and communicating generally across the town And just wondering if there are grants or other things out there that support that work that Would benefit all communication, not just Ecac but that ecac could also benefit from So as far as grants, you know, especially in the last few months where where staff capacity has been completely You know burdened through our response to covid we've been finding Ways in which to support our operations through that lens. None of them have been long term, you know, cares funding things that will expire Through the end of you know at the end of December And there's been discussions about taking a good look at our You know our current needs and do we have enough team members working on these things but as far as grants I don't know of anything Specific I do have a graduate student and I've had several graduate students work with me through work study or via internship in the past so I have a Communications intern right now but her work has to be connected to primarily to covid in order for her to be on board with us So there's been some some small stopgap measures that we've tried but we really need to come up or invest in a longer term solution to kind of expand The amount of folks we have available to work on this and that's that extends into the technology piece as well not not just communications because in many cases they're Enmeshed And if we did a site where we had you know it went to a dashboard or to a site that's not the official Amherst website would that site still kind of need to go through the same internal updating processes or where there were more flexibility there in terms of updating the material There would definitely be so if you wanted to have kind of a standalone site that was maybe using KLA or a different service that had a new URL that didn't live in our page structure there are ways for us to connect those two things where we have a link that says you know sustainability dashboard or climate action dashboard and we can Make it appear that it's part of our instance of our website so just to give a little bit about you know the website we do not have A webmaster our content management platform is predicated predicated upon departments and people within their departments updating their own content and so depending on which department or which you know area you're in there's Why different you know a very big difference in terms of if there's one staff member who can work on it or if there's 10 Sorry the thunder is starting at my house to So there's not one internal content updating system it really varies depending on you know the capacity of departments whether they've got three people assigned to the tasks or whether they have none So right now we're we're actually working with departments to go through and audit their pages have them identify who the you know staff content liaison is to make that process easier But if you had to answer your question directly if you had a site that we linked out to you know the responsibility of the upkeep of that site would we would have to discuss that it would it be you know A third party service would it be the staff liaison would it be another department member, but you wouldn't it would be kind of a seamless Jump from your standard page and we could link out to your your standalone dashboard without NASA not without having to go through like an approval process somebody would be maintaining that page separately I would I would imagine. Great. Any other questions I was just going to jump in about the grant opportunity. Potentially, we could, depending on what we apply for the next time through MVP, we could potentially request funding for a dashboard and that could be, especially if we put it into the climate action plan, then it could be something that we could potentially get some funding for just to put it out there. Yeah, good to know. Looks like the world's ending outside. Yeah, it was very dramatic here. It's been nice working with you all. About this meeting, like it always happens on this meeting. I know, like literally leaves are like just like going crazy out there. It was very quick, I have to say. Okay, I would find it useful. Stephanie, if you know of other communities that have great websites with the dashboard. If you could send a few examples or if other people on the committee know of some of those. It'd be nice to see what else others have done and decide what we might want to steal or borrow in terms of ideas. I know a few and I can, and again, I'm the ones that I know. You know, Kim was associated with our network. So a lot of us know her. So several communities have used her. Her platform, but I can, I can definitely find a few examples and send them. It's all glancing out the window. It was very fast, but unfortunately we lost power that has not come on and we don't typically lose power. So it was very dramatic, fast, but dramatic. It looks like Dwayne is getting inside of a tornado just now. I have to check. Stephanie, can you send the mass energized example or I could, if you don't have it. Yeah, from Concord. Yeah, Concord and I think maybe Wayland. I would just say that Dwayne and I are very familiar with the mass energized program where we've worked with it. And it's its own website and it's a very, you know, particular campaign. So it's not adaptable to whatever we want, although it has a lot of pieces of what we want and could be adapted if we had, you know, money to help them do that, but they are also still just getting going. Yep. Is it associated with specific campaigns? The communities are doing. I think it's being piloted and Concord and one other town that I think Wayland Wayland. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, we, I can put together all the links on, you know, in one message. So I can get them. Oh, so I think to be lose Brianna, it looks like she just said a big tree just came down. So I think we might have lost her. Yikes. Is there a warning or something? There are severe thunderstorm warnings, which is level of thunderstorm warning. Yeah, yeah, I, because I'm on my phone now, I can't see you all. So I'm not even 100% sure who's there and who isn't. We're all still here except Brianna. Except Brianna. Okay. All right. Laura. You're going to have to speak up. No, we lost Laura. We lost Laura too. Can't see you. So, I'm going to just, I'll throw into regarding the website and any funding. This is Jesse. That should, in my opinion, should dovetail with branding support as well. I still think our goal is to make sure that we are, and I think the climate action plan hopefully be a big part of this, but we have a lot of great ideas, but there are, they, the messaging hasn't still needs to gel and, and hit, you know, multiple levels of complexity, etc. So I think a branding, any kind of branding support seems like it would fall in nicely with, with developing a web presence. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I'm stuck at home with my kiddo. I can't help with that. But if things resume slightly better, that's something that I can take on in, in part or at least shepherd. Okay. Just making notes. So yeah. So Laura, unfortunately did lose power as well. And so we don't have her with us either. She's back. In back. Sorry. Oh, she's. Okay, great. No worries. Twain. Twain looks like he's filming. I got some like, trees around my house. I literally moved into the basement in case something comes down. Smart move. Yeah, I mean, things are definitely hitting my roof. But I'm in the basement. Stay safe, everyone. Yeah, I was going to say this is quite the interesting meeting. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know whether like where you are, Lauren. We can compare what's happening. We had a storm earlier, but it's past now. So. Okay. It's starting to get it here in South Amherst. Yeah, I don't have power. So we just lost Jesse too. Okay. We're going to lose people as they go. I think so. We and I are both in North Amher. Coming to the center right now. It's hailing out there. So. Okay. Yeah, let's just do what we can. Okay. Okay, Stephanie. Sure. Oops. So my, my really quick update. And it kind of goes along with Brianna's. Talking about dashboards and what presence. I, I attended a meeting of the NEMS network folks. We had Carol Collins from Greenfield, who's the sustainability or really the energy manager. It's her title. And she. Showed us a dashboard that she developed. It's really just an Excel spreadsheet. But it's all, it's basically. All of the, a dashboard that shows all of the town's buildings and the energy use the square footage. And then we have. I think. I think, um, Greenhouse gas emissions. And, um, measures and things. Uh, that have been implemented that, you know, our like major projects that are coming up for buildings. So it's really just kind of a great spreadsheet really. I've just, um, all of the information of all the buildings. And so, um, everybody has requested kind of the. Not her. Information, but sort of the format that she developed kind of the quick punch list that she developed. And so, um, I don't know if you've heard of that. But I did request it. I will say that it took her two years to get all that information together. And that is with another staff person to assist her. So, um, and it's a lot of information that you have to get from other departments and. You know, it's kind of the similar to the, when I'm doing the vehicle inventory, it's not easy to get all of the information from folks. So I will, um, I will be getting that information from her. And I do think that's something though, that I can talk to the new, um, facilities manager and speak to him about. You know, creating something like this and working with him. And maybe I can work on it together. It's something I have to propose and make sure that the powers that be sanctioned. So. But it's a great tool. And I think it's really exactly the kind of thing, that I think is really important. Um, especially that you were looking for Darcy with capital requests. I think it's a really great, um, efficient way to keep track of things for at least in terms of buildings, municipal buildings. So, um, Sorry, what was that Darcy? Could you share it with us? Um, yeah, when I get it, it's not, it's really just a list. It's not. You can actually go to Greenfield's website. And you can, I think you can look it up. They're building just look for building dashboard. Um, and you can see what they have. And I think that has all the detail. What she's going to send me is not obviously a completed, created spreadsheet. It's more just the list of things that she used. Um, To create it. So. But take a look at, I can send the link to green fields. I can send that to everyone, maybe along with the other dashboard examples. I'll send that link as well. But, um, If you're eager to see it right away, you can just go to Greenfield. Um, and then I just wanted to give an update on. Um, the brick grant process. We are, um, I think moving forward with two requests. Um, we can request one implementation grant. And one planning grant. And the one that I propose for the solar siting is going to fall into the category of a planning grant. No guarantee that we'll get invited to submit. I'm still trying to figure out if, um, We can do it regionally. I did reach out to Wayne Fiden of North Hampton. He's interested, but I still need to speak to. Chris Mason about it. Um, to see if it's something they want to go in. On together, uh, as something that could be, um, Sort of lay the fond work groundwork for some information for the CCA effort in terms of siting renewables, uh, solar projects. Within our communities. So that's something, um, That would be really exciting if we can, if we can do that. And especially if we partner on it. I think that would be, um, something that's innovative and not what Brick grants usually fund. Usually it's infrastructure stuff like stormwater. Um, the other two projects that the town is considering. One is for stormwater. One is about dam. Structure safety. So, uh, those are the other two projects. Um, that are potentially moving forward. One of those two will move forward. I don't know. That we're doing both. So, um, so that is happening. Um, I'm trying to think. Um, about any other. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What was that Darcy? I just wondered if you could share those two grant applications with us so we could take a look at. They haven't, we haven't even nothing as there. They aren't, there aren't any applications yet. All we're doing right now. Is submitting a statement of interest. And I'm just letting you know that those are a couple of projects that are being considered, but they're not, there's been no decision. Which of those two will move forward. Um, and I think the town manager is very likely to share them as soon as the town submits a statement of interest. And those are due next week. So I still don't know which one is going to move forward. Um, and it's literally at this point, it's only a statement. Um, I have talked to niche engineering to Isabelle Cowich. About, um, the solar sighting and ways in which they might be able to assist us with something. Um, For the application and Isabelle, uh, said that they can definitely do some kind of a. You know, a look at, um, identifying solar protection. Um, So they could put something together for us. It won't be anything in depth, but it will be at least something that could be, um, A tool or a report or a tool. That would be useful to either apply either for brick funding, um, or in a future MVP round. If we don't get the funding through brick grant, we might be able to apply for it. For the same kind of work through the next round of MVP. So there's potential there. So, um, That's something that we'll be moving forward as well. And I think those are the major things that I have right now. Yeah. Andrea. I was signed up to do the notes. Um, and when I have been on, I have been taking notes. So, um, Great. Yeah. Jesse was taking them. So. That's perfect that since he is not here yet. Back from whatever happened. Cause I got my power back. Um, unfortunately my phone didn't have any charge. So I couldn't do that. Um, So I don't know what he missed. I missed the beginning of Stephanie's report. I picked up, he texted me and I picked up a little bit. So I'll just send you what I typed. So maybe between the three of us, we'll have it all chunked. Yeah. Well, and you send them all to me. So I always fill in the gaps. So, um, So that, you know, between everybody will, we'll have a full set. Okay. But I'll go from, From now on it looks like. It's past. Huge branch came down very close to the house. But I'll be taking notes now. Okay. Okay. So unless there's questions for Stephanie, we can move to e-cac member updates. I just have one quick update, which is that I. Am working. Left us in suspense. This is definitely going to go down as one of the most interesting meetings we've had. Getting a mess. Anybody cares to watch. It's not, it's kind of not going to be very interesting. I have Laura there. Laura, are you back? You can't hear. Nothing. We're hearing Martian sounds. Yeah. Her audio is breaking up. Andrew, you have an update. Why don't you just give yours. I have an update. What's my update? Oh, about the. Better. Is that an update? The what? Planning and zoning letter. Isn't that on the agenda? No. Oh, maybe it is. It's not on this. It's just falls under e-c-a-c updates. I sent it to everybody. Okay. Yeah. So I wrote a draft. It's a one page. I don't know. Be nice to send it out. But maybe we should share it so that people could read through it. It came after the packet. It came after the redone spreadsheet. The third in the thread that Stephanie said. Yeah. So, um, so everyone has a hazard. So everyone can read through it. And it's, um, from me. And it's your link. And if we had some comments or thoughts, at first, I had really helpful and appreciative that Andrew did it. But it's together. Um, Uh, we're going to spend a little time. Talking about it or, or, uh, should we just send. Thoughts and, um, separately. I think given the challenge that we're having, I don't know about anybody else. I can't read that at all. Because it's on my phone. I'm thinking, um, that it makes more sense. To maybe given the technology technological problems we're having tonight to make comments, give comments to me, and I can compile them all and get them to you, Andra. Or you can send them directly to Andra, but you can't exchange. Just send them to her directly. But Andra, you can't respond. Just make sure I'm copied. I'll send them to you, Stephanie. Yeah, but I can. Work them in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Copy both. Yeah. You could send them to, yeah, copy, send them to me and then copy Andra. Why don't we do it that way? Okay. In the same email. CC Andra. I can do that. Okay. Yeah, just copy her. Yeah. As long as just there can't be an exchange of, you know, you can't, you can't have a big discussion about it, but you can just copy it to her. Okay. Andra. I'm just sending her information. That's fine. For those comments. Say it again. And we have a deadline for comments in. Well, yeah. So that we could have it in the packet for next meeting and then vote on it. That would be good. Why don't we say a week from today? So by next Wednesday. The 14th. Okay. I have another update. And it's just an invitation. There's. A new regenerative. Food system. Group. And I'm helping to make this showing of. Andra. We're doing weekend Sunday and Monday with. Hulkem barn. Inside the home bar in South Amherst. And if you're interested, just let me send you. We, we missed the, the main point there. The fact that what, what's happening those days. So I'm, Andra, I don't, you're, you're sort of in and out. And your audio hasn't been consistent. So I'll just help you here. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. There's a video showing a public showing of. A video called kiss the ground. There's going to be two showings. And I, if I, Andra sends me the dates, I can forward it to everybody. I think I have them, but if you want to send them to me again, I can forward it to the committee in case anyone is interested in attending. That viewing. And I think they'll probably be discussion afterwards as my guests. And I don't know who's sharing. Andra, if you're sharing the screen. We might want to stop sharing. Thank you. That was me. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you now. You're back. Great. But we lost. I'm not like her right now. Okay. It's crazy. So. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Like anybody. Anytime somebody starts to talk at tree falls in their backyards. Talking very short sentences. I'll be very quick. Last, last time. We reviewed Darcy, the memo that you had, had drafted for the finance committee. We were going to make some comments on it. The committee. I think we are here to help. I added a reference to life cycle costing. And we agreed that we should remove mention of G. G. Emissions. In the inventory, just because we don't think. The folks doing the inventory would actually be calculated in the G. G. Emissions. So that whoever's doing the G to G inventory can calculate those emissions. So I'm just making those edits and I can. I think they're minor enough that I think we can just send it off unless folks want to review it and. Vote on it next time. That sounds good. Okay. Not seeing any. Does anyone else have updates? You can't remember top updates. Nope. Okay. So given the precarious situations here, I don't know if there's like a specific agenda item that we want to make sure we do. I guess there's only one item left, which is the discussion of the cap outline and framework. So. I will turn it over to. Lauren and or Jim. Thanks, Laura. Thank you. Hopefully we don't lose folks along the way. I just like to say I'm not speaking. I'm trying to save my house. Yeah, I'm, I feel like I'm possibly the only person not in the middle of a thunderstorm right now. So hopefully I won't cut out. So. We wanted to use our time today to talk a little bit about the potentials. Sort of the big visions that are emerging. And informing where we're headed long-term. We've heard from the committee that the plan really needs to focus on actions that can be realistically achieved in the next three to five years. But also that it needs to present the holistic vision of how the town will achieve its goals. And so we've been thinking about this framework as essentially one of. Priorities on the one hand, the immediate term. And then potentials, the longer term things that our priorities are going to influence. So. In terms of the priorities, there are actions coming out of the task groups, which Stephanie included in your meeting to packet. The beginning is up. And then we have actions that have come from the MVP and ACAC outreach. There are no doubt the actions that come from conversations with town staff and other stakeholders. And of course more actions that will derive from best practices and precedents in the field. So. That's sort of where we're at with actions. And then through the current process, we're also getting a strong sense of sort of what the immediate priorities are for the community and some of those pathways to action. But. Where we're hoping for the committee's vision is really around this big picture. What are the long-term changes that we need to see? We know where we're going in terms of the 50% emissions reductions by 2030 and carbon neutrality by 2050. But what happens when we get there? So we thought this would be a good moment to sort of reflect and share among the co-chairs of the different groups around what's been emerging through the task groups and sort of use that to create a foundation for developing the components of the plan that will focus on those long-term potentials. So here's the question for the group and hopefully we have the technological foundation to be able to have this discussion meaningfully. But so thinking about your experiences from the task groups so far or even in the committee so far, what are some of the potential outcomes of hitting our goals? And what are some of those outcomes that we want to ensure? Just going to throw that out there for folks to think about. And I'm prepped with examples, but I don't want to prime you guys too much until you've had a chance to think about it. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So I'm using my phone. So if I lose my Wi-Fi, I'll still be able to hear, but I might go back to being an attendee. I don't know. So some of the, an outcome that I hope will accomplish is to really build trust with town staff and with the businesses that we will have worked together and everyone will feel like this was a real team effort and appreciate the leadership that the ECAC provided to get there but feel ownership over it. And I think that's a really important part of it. You know, same thing with community members, of course, that this is a really something that everybody takes pride in. Nice, Sandra. Thanks. Does anyone else want to build on that or speak to their own experience in the task group so far? I can go. I think. I think that's kind of why I'm. Involved in climate action. The group at all. This committee at all. And that is. Kind of one of the cross cutting priorities. I think we've called it, right? To make sure that equity is involved in, in every decision that we make lifting up. Populations that are the most. And I think that that's come up a lot in our group. Not just. The result being equitable with the process to get to the result being equitable. And I'm really hopeful that our committee will kind of lay that groundwork. Not just for the results, right? But like, how do we engage diverse groups in town governance? And we've talked about that a little bit. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's something we could be doing more of right now. I think our, I don't know if you read. What's our homework ask? It's. I'm going to. Forget how much the amount is, but the chunk of money that the town has set aside for. Yeah. Yeah. So the charge to our, or the homework for our group was to. Yeah. Some advocacy around that, whether it's emailing town counselors, or kind of thinking about ways that maybe we could ask the town. If that money could be used. To make sure that. The process we're engaging in now, right? Where by we're paying our community leaders to be involved. Can that be used to do that? Yeah. So what do you want in this work to keep the community involved, right? So we're not just doing it here and now, but to keep it moving forward because that costs money. And. So yeah, like. Creative creative ways of like rewiring and reshaping how we think about. Getting to the goal, but then what does it look like beyond the goals? I'm really encouraged by. Yeah, that's really awesome. Sarah, I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's a topic that's come up in some of the other task groups as well, sort of around strengthening. Strengthening avenues of communication as well as engage in governance. With different parts of the town, making sure that the town is hearing from all different constituents. I'm thinking specifically about the actually in the transportation task group that the idea of. Communication has been something that's come up a few times. I'm wondering if Laura or Darcy either of you wanted to speak to that. I don't think it's come up in our conversation. Yet. It's in the original. Charge of the task group, but. Has it come up? At least it's not in the list. It's not in the list that we. It's not in the list. It's not in the list. It's not in the list. That was generated. On the spreadsheet. But there were a lot of. Suggestions on the, you know, the original outreach that was done. A lot of suggestions. And now I can. I was actually thinking specifically of the idea of sort of. Community liaisons or. Community. So that's been something that has been around. So less about the sort of. Physical infrastructure and more about the sort of governance infrastructure that supports that type of communication. I do remember that coming up in the task group a little bit. Or maybe I'm, maybe I'm confusing pass groups. But, yeah, I'm curious to know what has stood out the most for you in terms of priorities or actions that you remember having come up in the outreach. Well, I think, I mean, just to step in, I mean, I think the conversation we were just having with Brianna actually feeds into this a bit. You know, and to Sarah's point about rewiring and reshaping, you know, it's clear that the website and communication is always a last thought. And that doesn't seem like that's the way forward necessarily. And so how does the work of the Climate Action Plan support kind of just reframing where we're focusing our time and effort and the benefits of that, I guess. Because I think people don't see the benefit of communication, clear communication, and what that ends up doing is alienating a lot of people. So, so I think it's directly, I don't know if it's come up that much in our task group, but I think it's directly connected to the work we want to do and actually building the vision that Andra had of, you know, everybody feeling ownership and taking pride. That's awesome, Laura. I think another way that it's sort of come up tangentially is around sort of the resources that that folks in the community want and need, or even information like, for instance, in our conversation about composting. We're talking about how great it would be to have information on the town's website about how to do composting. And, and maybe that's something that translates into a bigger picture thing around sort of resources for climate action and making sure that they're accessible to everyone. I'm going to jump in with that comment, Lauren, because some of the information is on the town's website. It's buried. And I think that's part of the problem too, is that to find anything and even for me who's someone who works for the town. Sometimes if I'm looking for something, I can't find it. So it's also a matter of just making it accessible. And I think, you know, because there is information there it's just you have to go dig to find it. And Stephanie, I want to elevate what you the word that you use there which is accessibility I feel like that's another big theme that's come up in a few of the task groups and I'm sort of going back to our original question around, what are the potential outcomes of this work in the long term. When we think about we've achieved our 2030 goal or 2050 goal. What does that mean for things like accessibility. We were talking a little bit about what that means for governance and engagement. But yeah, just throwing that out there. Yeah, I guess I'm aligned with everything that was just said by everybody before and actually it relates quite a bit to my take on the question, which is, or my response to the question, which is that I think there amongst many towns are looking at this and trying to crack the same nut, if you will. And I remain convinced that the technology is not the problem. The way we deliver the technologies and way we organize business business and business plans of how to deliver that so that people are incentivized to go down this path. And I think that's the real tougher nut to crack then we use heat pumps or solar or whatever. I would, it would be great if part of our outcome can be some in the CCA CCA 3.0 is a part of this and an important part of this. But it also has to really dig into delivery of of vast amount of energy efficiency and in existing buildings in Amherst and every other home in in Massachusetts, in ways that are just massive is just not even coming close to the pickup of what needs to happen between in the next, you know, 1010 30 years. And so part of an outcome that I would like to see is some innovation some of these, at least in thinking through some of these ideas in terms of how this economy can be shifted around on a local level to really take this on pilot some ideas to demonstrate this and this is where I think it relates very much to communication buy in support for equity, because I think if if we're asking a community to do a lot of local economic development work for the community as a whole as opposed to individuals individually and work as a as a community that's going to take not only leadership from from the town officials but throughout all the constituents that we've been speaking with and and and I think that's where the groundwork is really has been really important as well as a bent towards equity throughout this so I'm still struggling exactly what those delivery mechanisms are and those business plans are that I think that's to some extent would be something that we could offer that maybe other towns aren't looking at as much more so than just, you know, let's let's do energy efficiency and heat pumps. That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah, I what I'm hearing from that very eloquent sort of in depth discussion of what that means is sort of two things. One is is sort of a vision of a really thriving local clean energy economy. And the other is is is around something around like engaging the entire community and maybe that has something to do with workforce development with working with local businesses as Andrew was speaking to earlier as well. But those are sort of the two things that stood out to me in that in that statement, would you add anything to that or modify what I took away from that. Nope, I think that's great additions. Yeah, for sure. Darcy Darcy. Yeah, I guess I'm, I am really struggling with trying to think about where we're headed here and what kind of a framework we're setting up of a plan. And I feel like we're going to come up with these actions. And they're, they're going to have benefits. And I think that's kind of what you're asking what are what are the goals in addition to greenhouse gas reduction. And some degree of climate resilience. What else are we getting out of this well we're getting, you know, climate justice benefits out of some but not every single thing will we get a climate justice benefit but we'll get it out of a lot. And we'll also get a thriving economy jobs etc hope that we're hoping to get from local development of our own energy. I guess I'm just, I'm really wanting us to come up with this framework that kind of shows what are the actions in each of the areas, what are the subcategories what are the co benefits of each thing. And I don't, you know, I think that I want us to have a timeline. You know, we said we're going to get priorities done by the time the town manager gets his budget done. That doesn't last very long. And I'm, yeah, I may be jumping ahead here. But, you know, I, I want to sense what where we're going immediately after this last meeting was a community is done, and how we can help get there, how this group can help us get there. Absolutely Dorsey, I really appreciate that comment and especially what you were saying there around co benefits because I know you weren't with us last time but that was part of the discussion and really one thing that we've heard consistently from the committee is that all of the actions that end up in the plan are going to be evaluated, of course in terms of emissions reduction potential, but also in terms of their co benefits and in terms of their potential for enhancing equity. That's definitely the framework that we're working within in terms of how actions show up in the plan and how they get prioritized. But I do really want to encourage you to think on the big picture level just for today, because we are going to have another meeting once the task groups wrap up specifically focused on the actions. Because we're not done with that process yet. I don't want to go there yet because there's still, there's still a lot that I'm sure is going to be coming out of those third meetings. So, so thinking about some of those co benefits I like your framing there. If you were to think about it in terms of. In 2050 we've achieved our carbon neutrality goal. What are some of the co benefits of having achieved that goal, and what are some of the co benefits that we really want to see. Thinking back specifically to the transportation task group for instance one of those big aspirational things that came up was transportation as a fundamental human right and and what that could look like. So I ended public transportation, fair free public transportation. That was just one vision presented by one individual in the group, but sort of an example of the kind of thinking that I want to encourage through this conversation. So, Darcy, how, how are you thinking about co benefits when you picture those picture Amherst and in 2050 having achieved carbon neutrality. What are some of the other benefits that we're seeing. And you can focus on transportation or waste or any of the other. Sorry. I said I want, I want socialism. Yeah. I mean that's a whole damn thing wouldn't it. Definitely a resonant theme here is sort of economic transformation. I'm definitely hearing that. Yeah, no, me yet fundamental transformation and buy in from the community of, you know, a fundamental transition and the way we do things, the way we can say things the way we take public transportation, the whole nine yards. That would require, I mean that requires massive public education and communication with, you know, buy in neighborhood captains. Everything, like, because he was suggesting, I am all for that. And to the extent, I mean, but that's not necessarily something we want to say in our initial plan, because everybody will run away from us. That's a valuable perspective. And I think it's important to think about how things will be received as well. But nonetheless to, to hold that part of part of the job here is to set that vision is to, to be aspirational and to, to give people big ideas and big goals to work towards, as you have with the carbon goals. So I don't want you to shy away from it in the moment, even though we have to acknowledge that there are perceptions that will be involved in the plan, of course. Yeah, I don't, I mean, I didn't they may not be in our best interest to use the s word, if you will. But, you know, to talk about co ops, you know, energy co ops, which are, you know, meant much of the country served by energy co ops lease on the electric side. Buying co ops for heat pumps and, and so forth the CCA has a little socialist aspect to it as well. We don't use that necessarily. But so I think there's and you know, talking about new business models. I mean, that's, that's getting there as well. So I think there's ways to you know, bring these ideas forward without scaring people off, if you will. Yeah, thanks. Jesse, please jump in. I think one of the that we saw in our group that was brought up was the sort of the difference between bold action and incrementalism. And I think that's, and I think we can do both. You know, I, I, my mind leads towards bold action. And, and, and I'd like, you know, in the future in the 2050. If we're here, you know, to go back and I think if the look back says that, you know, that not just this town but many people made courageous choices and took risks. They were bold. I'm not sure that incrementalism is going to get us there on the timeline that we have, but we may need to do that. So I think acknowledging that tension I think is important it was brought up in our group for sure. In many different, in many ways, not making false promises. Was an important piece of that. And I think to speak to the this co benefit and what Dwayne was saying, I feel like it to me, it's not do this action and it'll also help this group or this other thing. I think it might be the other way around that unless there is cultural shift, and unless all, you know, all the demographics are part of this, it won't succeed. So I think it's, it's, it's, it's not that you can help others by being green it's we cannot solve the climate problem without solving a social problem at the same time, and maybe even first that that I don't know if that's what Dwayne was saying necessarily but it co benefit feels like the wrong word I don't think it captures that concept in the same way. Thanks Jesse that I did have the same thought about terminating it, using the terminology co benefits because I think it's, as you said, some somewhat of a necessary condition to get there, as opposed to a peripheral outcome. Yeah, and I'm thinking it's a subtle reframe. Sorry, go ahead, Laura. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm seeing this really pulling together as like, this is our opening statement of the of the plan. You know, we need transform it, we need old action we need transformational change. We know we need that for climate we need that for racial equity we need that for public health. I mean, education, I think everything in our society right now is at this of recognizing of recognizing or, you know, we're approaching it and we're the same way but we can't. But to back to the incremental pieces, we've got to also take small actions, but I think our whole plan, sort of recognizing that at the beginning, identifying the actions we're taking now not just in turn by ourselves but collectively with our neighboring communities and you know, sort of larger, you know, we need the state and the national government to be pushing, we can't do it all ourselves either so kind of wrapping that all together into the plan I think will be really powerful. I just want to jump in real quick to add that I, I feel like I'm hearing conversations at the state level that are moving in this direction, as well, that I'm feeling more encouraged by I mean even with the MVP funding and program, they're starting to bring in more elements of equity in what they're funding. So, you know, I just, I think it's a, you know, it's just moving in a direction and it feels like it's bigger than even what we're doing it's happening it's just, there seems to be more of a swell of awareness, especially lately that seems to be feeling a lot of what we're saying and I do think, you know, it's maybe not happening as quickly as we want but I think, you know, it's encouraging to me that it's happening that we can just push it even farther. Yeah, Stephanie it sounds like what I've heard from the group so far is that it's it's not only that we want to be part of this wave but that we want to be on the leading edge of it. And I also want to pull out one thing from what Laura said there which was this idea of, it's not just what we're doing as a town but also how we're collaborating with our neighbors and our region. And that's also been a theme that's come up in several of the task groups is sort of the need for regional collaboration because so many of these issues across town borders and can't be solved on our own. So I think holding that framework as well as part of the plan will be an important one. I want to give the folks who haven't had a chance to say much, a chance to chime in Steve I'm looking at you, and you're muted there. I'm impressed with everybody's optimism. I got stuck a little bit when you said that what will we do when we've reached all of our goals by 2050. And I thought I hadn't thought of that, because I think we're going to try to imagine how what I think we're going to continue having to work on those. In many ways I like what you had said much earlier about having some goals that are fairly immediate and having bigger goals that perhaps will be broken out into smaller goals that can be chipped away at sort of year by year. I think that'll be important if if we develop say a transportation plan in Amherst it might be one area of Amherst in some early years and then expand as it gets worked out so having a plan gets us towards our goals in incremental I guess connects the dots between the highly aspirational and optimistic endpoint and what are we going to do today tonight tomorrow in order to make progress towards it. Yeah, I love what you said there about the transportation plan to because one thing that has come up in the transportation task group is specifically around this idea of piloting some shuttles in areas of low car ownership or potentially also areas of high car ownership, but low transit availability to get more people out of their cars. And so it also sort of connects back to what Dwayne was saying around piloting new ways of doing things. It gets at this idea of regional collaboration because the PVTA is very much a regional entity. And those types of programs can have regional implications. And it connects to exactly what you're saying around sort of the the incremental or sort of larger goals, like maybe transportation as a fundamental human right being chipped away at in these shorter term chunks that lead us to that ultimate goal. This has been a really rich conversation already, but I definitely don't want to end it now if folks have more thoughts or things that they wanted to add or build off of, especially because, you know, we don't we haven't had many opportunities yet for the co chairs to sort of share across the groups. And I'm hoping that it's interesting for everyone to hear a little bit about what's been going on in the different groups and how they've been overlapping. So just sort of on that note, does anyone have any thoughts about how how these things connect or things that they want to hear more about from other task groups. I know we don't have all the co chairs here today but yeah, Andrea. Well, in looking at the spreadsheet with the principles that you all have have pulled out. I think there's some, you know, commonalities that we really shouldn't leave in the task groups. They're just very, very general there's probably, you know, 10 of the principles don't belong in the task group itself. And they're repetitive across that we should have, you know, principles that are that apply to all our work also need to include principles that aren't there right now they the the environmental justice principles and, you know, co benefits, you know, as long as we use that word are predominant, and that's not the only thing we're doing. And I think it's really important for us to fill in the gaps so that when we start writing plan, we are clear on, you know, the various things that we want to do. And also some of the strategies are actually principles and so I started moving things around in the document to make it make more sense for me. And, and I think, you know, sorting them out. I just, I feel like we've got so much work to do, you know, you know, I want to dive in. Awesome. Yeah, thanks for that, Andrea. I think it's true some of the strategies do are actually probably stronger as principles and and sort of the reason that they're included in there now is so that you can see the evolution and hopefully pull some, some actions that capture those ideas into the plan. And I love this thought of sort of principles for the work overall, and how the process of the task groups has really brought some of those to the surface in that there are commonalities across the groups as you pointed out. So, I'm kind of thinking it might be a useful piece of ECAC homework for everyone to think about to look through those principles and think about what are some additional principles that we might need to bring to our process. So just an offering, not a requirement but if folks do want to think about that and think about what how they would build off of the principles that have come out of the task group so far. And now you all have all of the principles. You've had you've had them in the notes so far but they're all in the spreadsheet there. I think it would be great to hear from the group about how you would build off of those principles. I think that before we have our last meeting, we need to have the expanded principle so that our community members aren't surprised by what actually ends up being in the plan. I think we owe them that. I think it's probably not going to be possible to have them ready before all of the task group meetings because we do have our first one starting tomorrow. However, we are fully intending to circle back with the community leaders and with the task group participants with a draft of the plan. So I think it will be critical to have that in there. And make sure that community members get to see it and digest it and respond to it before the plan is finalized or taken any further. So, I would say that's a an important priority for the CAC to be thinking about. And something that we should discuss again at the meeting that follows the last round of task groups. If we want to have input into those that aren't tomorrow into what our meetings will look like, how do we do that? You know, looking at the agenda, there's some things I would like to spend more time on and some I'd like to spend less time on. Yeah, so you can just send feedback directly to myself and Jim. And same as usual, feel free to make comments in the documents and send them back. If you want to do a call or something. Definitely. Yeah, I see. I have a couple of comments. One is about the discussion about resilience. And it strikes me that that needs to be defined better because resilience as a general concept is not the same as climate resilience. So we need to focus on that as the concept, the resilience to climate impacts. And so if we could, to the extent I saw that that's an every one of the agendas, a discussion about bouncing back, well, it's climate resilience, not just generally resilience in life. So, if we could make sure that we change that, that would be good. Absolutely. I think one important note is that the, the agenda doesn't contain all the facilitators notes and part of the part of that piece would be to provide a more in depth definition of what bouncing back actually means in the context of climate change. So specifically talking about climate shocks and stressors, things like intense storms, giving, giving more concrete examples and how they relate to climate but I really do appreciate that comment and I can clarify that and the agendas as well. That would be great. And as far as the transportation group, I do, I did go over the page that was provided in the spreadsheet. And I had some of the same reaction as Andrew and that I felt like a lot of the, the strategies were actually principles. And that for the transportation group is a little different because we have the different topics. Yeah. But we didn't, we didn't really cover communication and public health so I don't know what we're going to do about that exactly, other than maybe go back to the original suggestions that we had in our original outreach or our original sector analysis. But I did go through the transportation and waste and, and try to organize it according to transportation and waste. Great. Thank you. categories and I did add some stuff in that we hadn't talked about that may or may not have. Well, it's arguable that it does have EJ benefits to, for example, accelerate electric vehicle development or adoption in town. Absolutely. Absolutely. So anyway, I put some of those in that were in the, the other our initial outreach and in the, the plans that you had suggested that we look at from other communities. So I will share that with you. I could share that with everybody now, but I could just share that with you. Also, yeah, I think use that because it's, it's hard to hard to sift through it since we have so many different topics there. I think I do want to stress that the, the actions in the spreadsheet that were sent out for this meeting are only things that have come out of the task group so far. And at the end of this process, we will be putting those together with the previous strategies as well as strategies that come from other towns and precedents and best practices as well as strategies that come from conversations with you all with staff and with other stakeholders. So that's by no means a comprehensive list and absolutely if you are looking at those lists and things come to mind that strike you is very important. Please do feel free to add them. Please do send them our way. We want to be keeping track of those things as they come up so that they don't get lost in the shuffle. So thank you for doing that Darcy really appreciate it and absolutely do send those our way. If you're interested in the interest of time and the weather. We probably will skip the looking at spreadsheets today. But that will definitely be part of a future conversation where we talk about the actions more holistically as well. So thank you. I think I'll wrap it up there unless other folks wanted to add a final word. I'd just like to note that the storm has finally hit me. Actually, I'm not sure I actually do have to go apparently we are trapped in our neighborhood. There's multiple trees down Pine Street, taking out all of the electrical wires. So I have my battery anymore because I don't know when we will have our back. So I don't my internet's unstable. Can you hear me still? Yeah, a little. Yeah, you're in an hour. Okay, I'm gonna leave and let Andra and Stephanie close out the meeting. Good idea. Okay, be safe. Okay. So I, Andra, I don't know if you have anything else, but I'm thinking it's probably just a good time to wrap up. I still don't have power yet either. And I hear I've heard sirens, so I don't know what's going on around here either yet. Jesse, you're bravely outside. You're out there, Jesse. It's beautiful out. Yeah, actually, it's pretty calm now in Amherst. I don't have to be inside. I don't get a good reception inside now. So what I missed is anyone left on the call. Yeah, here, but I think we're wrapping up. So unless anyone has anything else to add, we should probably just wrap up. So I have to apologize. I got really wrapped up in the discussion and wasn't taking. So let's recreate them collectively. I also was taking notes that whole time so I can send them to Stephanie too. Yeah. And I have my own notes as well. So I think we're, we'll be good. No worries. Hi, everyone. So, Andrew, do you want to wrap up or? Jesse, did you have a last thing you were saying? No, I'm just saying. It's, I don't know if anyone talked about flexibility. To changing times and cell reception. Important note. I think this is an unusual meeting we're having. Typically it's not quite like this, so. This is a classic. What is referred to as a metal log where the thing we're talking about is the form of the conversation we're having. You know, here we're talking about a resilience and bouncing forward and like the power is going off and trees are falling. And yeah. It's kind of what we're talking about. Yep. So I just want to invite. Public comment if Sarah Ross and the attendee list wanted to say something. At this point. Sarah told me. Oh, she is raising her hand. So Sarah, I think you need to. Star six to speak. Or start it's either star six or star nine on your phone. And then you should be able to speak. Okay. Let's see. Probably none of us have the ability to. Yeah, Sarah, I apologize. I, because I got knocked out, I'm on my phone. And I think I, I was hosting, but I'm not sure I have the ability to. To move you. So. Sorry. So please email. If you have any, any comments and we can put them into the notes. So, all right. Yeah, I apologize. Do we have to vote to adjourn? Wait, you know what? Hold on there. Okay, Sarah, you're on. All that trouble. I just wanted to say. Thank you so much for letting me listen and that's it. And thank you for all your great work. It was a pleasure hearing you. Thanks, Sarah. And we hope you join us again. And, and also that you'll have an opportunity to really contribute to the conversation. Cause I'm sure you have some thoughts and perspective that we'd love to hear. Yeah. No, that'd be great. Thanks so much for having me. Sure. Thank you very much. We've got stuff around the table here. So I think that is it. We should technically have the next meeting agenda. Conversation, but I think it will be. Obvious after our. Well. Actually, there's going to be. One meeting that will not have finished. By the next meeting, I believe. So. Well, then, then we ought to talk if people. Have things that they want to put on the agenda. So it's just sending them to you and Laura. Stephanie. Yep. Send them to me and or, or actually both Laura and myself. Okay. Does anybody want to throw something out right now? That they definitely want on the agenda. The next meeting. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we talked about having. A framework, right? Is that going to be done by the next meeting? Like an outline. All the meetings won't be, all the task group meetings won't be done yet. Because the next meeting is on the 14th. And. I think we're talking about. Format. Not. Content. Right. That's what you were asking. Yeah. I guess we talked about having a framework, right? Is that going to be done by the next meeting? Yeah. Right. That's what you were asking for last time, Jesse, right? I think it would be helpful. I don't want to. I don't want to. Step on toes of the process. And if, and if. And I. I really do trust the process. But if there. That's all good, Jesse. Yeah, we can definitely send out a, an outline of the format. I think understanding the sort of the, the structure of the plan. So we can start taking all these ideas and. Thinking about where it goes right or wrong. Just something. If that, if again, if there's a reason not to, don't do it. No, that sounds great. No problem. Great. Okay. Okay. So any other ideas send them Laura and Stephanie's way. Okay. And I call this meeting adjourned. Thank you all for breathing it. Good luck, everybody. Seriously. Stay safe. Okay.