 Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. And once again, let me introduce myself. My name is Sarah Wayne and it's an honor for me to become your moderator for today's dialogue or talk show session. But first of all, please do allow me to take off my mask for this session, ladies and gentlemen. And once again, welcome and we'll be starting the talk show of the palm oil and environmental sustainability, the high level policy dialogue. But before we start, can I have first a big round of applause? Is everyone ready to start the talk show, ladies and gentlemen? And I would like to welcome everyone here who is at the venue at the Barabudur Hotel and also those of you who are joining online. Welcome and we'll be starting the talk show in just a moment. But before we do start, probably I would like to give an overview first, as we all know. And as we have also listened that palm oil is a very prominent vegetable oil commodity in the world and the global supply chain. And it's one of also one of the world's most controversial communities, ladies and gentlemen, as we all know. And of course, as we all know as well, palm oil is mostly produced here in Southeast Asia, namely Indonesia and also Malaysia. And palm oil contributes highly and is also one of Indonesia's key export commodities and also contributes significantly to the country's national development. And through this dialogue that we will be having in just a moment, we will be having three sessions today. We will be able and also we are aiming to bring together stakeholders and also experts to discuss more on the sustainability of palm oil itself, especially in light of the global crisis that we are all facing, ladies and gentlemen. So without further ado, please do allow me to welcome our speakers for the first session, ladies and gentlemen, where we will be discussing palm oil price fluctuation and also supply chain. So without further ado, please allow me to welcome our first speaker, Mr. Oke Nurwan, the special staff for expert improvement and foreign trade development, the Ministry of Trade Indonesia. Welcome, Mr. Nurwan, and I would like to invite you to please come up onto the stage and please kindly take a seat. You may sit wherever you like. As you may see, my phone is already at the very far right. Yes, please, sir. And next, ladies and gentlemen, please also welcome Mr. Agus Purnomo, the Senior Advisor on Sustainability for Golden Agri Resources Limited. Welcome, sir. And once again, please do take a seat. Any seats you'd like. And next, I would like to also invite onto the stage, Professor Bustano Arifin, the Professor at Lampung University. Welcome, Professor. Please once again come up on stage. And we also have Mr. Destrico Malayiputra, the Senior Policy Advisor for Sustainable District Association to please come up on stage. Please give her applause, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome, sir. Please come up onto the stage. And now, ladies and gentlemen, since we are having this discussion session both online and offline, we also have our speakers who are joining us virtually this afternoon. Please welcome onto the screen Ms. Goldamir McTanya, the Representative from Apcasindo. Once again, can we see if Ms. McTanya from Apcasindo has joined us? Good afternoon. Please give her applause for Ms. McTanya. Ms. McTanya, can you please say your short greeting? We would like to also check if we can be able to hear you for the talk show. Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Ms. Wayne, for introducing me and thank you for the opportunity to join the discussions. And honored to be here and honored to have the dialogue back to you. Thank you very much, Ms. McTanya. We can hear you clearly. Thank you also for joining us and we are hoping to have a wonderful session with you as well. And next, please also welcome onto the screen Mr. Nurhanuddin Ahmad Surambo, the Executive Director of SAWIT Watch. Hello, good morning. Good morning, Mr. Nurhanuddin. Thank you. And we can also hear you clearly. Now, ladies and gentlemen, let me just take my seat right here and we will be having the talk show, the first talk show session. But before we do, once again, I would like to remind everyone of you here that since this will be a talk show and dialogue, therefore, we'd like to invite everyone here to also please join in by asking your questions and presenting the questions to our speakers and by accessing the Slido. And how you can access the Slido is to access the link, which is trade hub, ask slash trade hub and also by scanning the barcode that is available on the screens of your application or gadget, ladies and gentlemen. And now without further ado, we would like to jump into the talk show and also ask and also dig into the insights from our speakers who are here this morning. So without further ado, I would like to start with Mr. Nurhan first. Mr. Nurhan, can you please tell us here in the audience about the condition of the global oil globally? Why are the prices right now is fluctuating? What is happening in the global scale? And committee, can we also have another microphone on the stage just in case? But here you can use my microphone first. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Wing. Why? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Wing. Well, first of all, I think I don't have to mention everybody's here and everybody has been delivering in its opening ceremony. Well then, distinguished participants who are here and also online. First of all, while the invitation was not coming to me, it was coming to my director general for domestic trade. I was the director general, but I am on retirement since 1st of July this year. So I was asked by acting of director general for domestic trade to be here with you. And I would like also to extend his apology from Pak Sailendra. And I am here on behalf of him for this event. Secondly, I was informed by DMC just now. I would like also to benefit, to take the benefit, the facilitations that are coming from the committee who has kindly enough facilitating interpreter for me. So I would like to take this many to take the benefit of the facilitation so I will deliver my answers in Bahasa Indonesia. It will be more convenient for me. Thank you. So the answer to the questions. Sorry. This is May 2021. The government at that time predicts that this is a momentary incident. Because there is a conflict between the oil supply in NABATI. Among them is the oil production in Canada, about 6%. And then there is the oil supply in NABATI, which is based on palm oil from Malaysia. Where from Malaysia, it is estimated that the formal number is between 6% to 8%. At the beginning, there was only a flood in Malaysia that entered the market. Then after the pandemic, there was a reduction in the number of jobs that were returned. So the oil production in NABATI was reduced. What happened in Indonesia in 2021 was considered by the CPO and CPL. It will be produced above Rp. 51 million, based on the CPO and CPL. And the CPO must have a target of Rp. 49 million. The production is only Rp. 47 million. And of course, this is the cause of the oil supply in NABATI. The second, when the situation happened, it was also in America that the use of soya bean oil as a basic biofuel increased quite a bit. From 2070 to 17%, in 2021, it was already 35% for biofuel. And there is also a concern for the oil production. At that time, it was considered that the oil production would be better soon. Canola will also be better soon, so it will be considered again. The next concern, which is unpredictable, is the inflation from Russia to Ukraine. Even so, we have discussed before. Russia and Ukraine are like Tom and Jerry. But we have received a response from the large population of Ukraine that there will be no inflation. So, our opinion is still that NABATI oil will soon return to normal production. Canola oil will also return to normal. But it turns out that at that time, there was an inflation. So, there was a chance for a sunflower seed. And at that time, the condition of this oil price was a burden for the export of Indonesia, but it was not a burden for the mothers who used fried oil. It was not a burden. So, on the 3rd of January, Mr. President, Mr. President, I would like to tell you that the government is ready to pay the price of fried oil. So, the previous government did not pay the price of oil products or commodity. So, it is a market mechanism. Well, including fried oil, the base of this fried oil is the CPU. And the CPU is not controlled. It follows the market mechanism. So, the price of the CPU, fried oil, the production is rising. At that time, a dilemma was raised in the people as the biggest oil producer. Why is the price of fried oil so high? Well, from the point of view of the market mechanism, at the end of the president's government, we must immediately prepare the oil, so that the oil will be regulated by regulation. The regulation is based on the regulation of the oil and the preparation. Actually, why should this be regulated by the domestic market obligation? Because usually, because the margin is too big, between domestic prices and international prices. The government, through the Ministry of Trade, usually intervenes on the market mechanism as long as the fluctuation or change of the margin of the price is only 5-10%. Usually, we intervene on the market mechanism through the operation of the market and so on. But the margin is too high, there are too many companies that use this high margin. So, fried oil became the topic trend at the beginning of this year until seven months later, and now it has been under control. But until now, the government has been controlling it. It has not returned to the market mechanism, it has not been confirmed when it will happen. Because it turns out that the fluctuation of the price due to the lack of income is also due to the pandemic that is affected by high biologics. That is why it is affected. But the situation is now, the price has started to return to normal except for the high biologics. Because earlier, it was easy from the pandemic to increase the price of international biologics that has reached 4x the price of 4x the container. Even the supply of the container is not strong. The biologics has not returned as it was before. The price has started to be stable because earlier, the production delay was good. Even this October will be hot. In addition to the geopolitical, Russian-Ukrainian inflation that is still not certain about the oil. Thank you. Maybe Mr. Agus Purnomo would like to have any addition to your insights especially regarding the conditions on the multi-factor that has been explained by Mr. Nourwan. Thank you, Madam. I would like to follow the clue from Mr. Oke to use Indonesian language. In addition to what has been explained by Mr. Oke, which I agree with, the Chinese factor is very close to the productivity of the agricultural industry. And what has happened in the United States, with the dryness, with the lack of water, because there are also floods, it caused less production. Indeed, for agricultural businesses, the climate change is actually a challenge that has been experienced today. It is no longer a question of theory. What I would like to add is other than the natural aspects and also the political uncertainty, there are also several market countries whose policies are changing and sometimes it is difficult to access the market. It depends on the country, there is a country in Asia that is similar to the country of production, and then it raises the import price for Soviet products. Later, if it is better, the price will be reduced. There are things that are out of the ability of the Soviet producers to influence the political aspects of the market, and now there are also several conditions that may later be affected towards access to Soviet products to the market in Europe, for example. In Japan, there has been a discussion, but in general, the aspect of sustainability is rising so for the next 10 years, there is a need for us who work in the field of the production of this Soviet product to show the energy from the aspect of sustainability of our production. Thank you, Mr. Agus. And once again, because today we can use two languages, if there is a question that you would like to ask, please do. If you would like to ask a question, you still can ask in English. We'll be more than happy to translate the question for you, ladies and gentlemen. Alright, we will continue to Mr. Mustanol Arifin. Is it? Do you want to use the same question? Yes, we would like to also ask the same question. Also, regarding the condition of the climate change as well, it has also been mentioned by Mr. Purnomo. What can be done to mitigate the condition that is being faced, especially by our farmers? Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the climate change is really a big challenge for us here. One of the strategies that you all understand, I think we apply certification. Of course, to follow all and the standards, both certification and standards. We have here RSPO, we have here ISPO, and somehow we have ISCC. But not all. This is one to make adaptation and mitigation. I just take note from the government's decision two days ago from Comra. Harry mentioned earlier that the volume or the one that has followed standard certification is only 19 percent. The land, the total land that has been certified is 4.6 million hectares. It's about how much? A third? Okay, 25 percent. 30 percent maximum. Ladies and gentlemen, to adapt to that, the government has per press. So there is a per press, there is a per press, in 2019, RAN-KSB, National Action Plan, the next step. National Action Plan for Sustainable Palm Oil. That's to to do both adaptation and mitigation. But there are not many that could translate into action, into programs and intervention in the field, especially the provincial and the local government. So the key is the responsibility of the private sectors and small holders. The question how to do partnership, I'm not talking about the monitoring values, it's too much. How to do the partnership of big companies such as companies by Mastagos, Papunki, and the partners. Ladies and gentlemen, the ones that really get impacted by the price fluctuation and probably the policies, at least small holders. What kind of small holders? Independent small holders. Ladies and gentlemen, in this private sector, Mr. Sarah, the most vulnerable are those that don't want to be partners. I think it's PR. It means big PR for us, independent small holders become one of the main tasks. I try to say if this talk show could have some suggestion, policy recommendation for any programs that create or at least have incentive for our small holders both in the partnership or any programs that could improve the productivity and implement the sustainable strategies of palm oil production. If that's all, I think we could contribute to the climate change. Now, who will start? I still remember the government back then, there was an incentive called an incentive for financing. Back then, we didn't have an incentive. That's where it's lightened up. Now, I think you can confirm it later with your friends. From the model, it's done to pay for the palm oil production. If you don't pay for it, they have to depend on the price that is fluctuating. Alhamdulillah, the price has started to rise. I saw it when I opened the site. For the site, it has started not bad. The FOB for the CPO has 904. Then for the TBS, 1,100, 1,900, even there is a lot of withdrawal. If you open the site, the first price is not 11,500. But there is no bigger price. The last price is 11,400, 11,300. It still looks good. It is not below 1,000. Maybe I raised the price fluctuation with the certification and adaptation of this model. Thank you Prof. Mr. Agus. Thank you Prof. Indul. So what can be done by the company to the dominant market? So the market gives opportunity to the company to help the farmers to find and guarantee the model to do the certification so that the productivity will increase twice or more. Then in the market, it will get the standard good agricultural practice. The second is in the market that often gives incentives for sustainability. There is a clause for special allocation or treatment for small holders. So it is a new opportunity that will be realized to sell products that are from small farmers. Small holders products can only be sold if there is a chance of failure. There will be traceability. The company where I work has a data of 110,000 small holders with geotech location and other information that can be used to make labeling that products that enter the market are products from small holders. Thank you. Thank you very much Mr. Agus for your answer. We also want to ask Mr. Destrico what are your views especially regarding the price fluctuation that has been explained earlier by our other speakers and also the governance the impact that it has and also the supply chain. Mr. President, I would like to answer the question of the moderator. We would like to reach 5 points in our view. Indonesia is a country that is affected by the CPO. So we can't distinguish between the CPO and the CPO for energy needs. So I have written some materials. So if this condition is not intervened then Indonesia will always be affected by the CPO scale. When the export is reduced then every customer is oriented to export and the government can forget what is in the domestic market. This has happened a few times ago where the different biodiesel is safe. On the other hand, frying oil is difficult to find and the price is also expensive. So this phenomenon is also caused by the activities of this commodity. First, the subsidiary for frying oil we can see the number. We can check it here but for verification it is around 7 trillion in 2020. Then the incentive for biodiesel is very high. Very high in 2021 or in 2002 and for farming in the previous sector that did the farming and plant management that is also minimal. So we think that if we increase the production process that is indeed intervened from the beginning. Second, our CPO scale for the need of food and biodiesel cannot be distinguished in terms of appearance. Where does the CPO scale for biodiesel whether from Sumatra or Kalimantan cannot be distinguished? Everyone, the CPO wants to do anything cannot be distinguished. In terms of the need for biodiesel it will always increase because there is a B10, B20, B30 and B100 program. On the other hand there is a need in the farming sector other than frying oil that also increases or does not plan the distribution agenda. So we will always be distracted from this interesting market system that is good for the needs of the country or international needs. Third, Indonesia is a country that is very resistant to market pressure or market pressure where in Indonesia as a result of the World War II in the country of buyers it already has a high sustainability commitment. For example, the EU as a region where selling aircraft products it does anti-defrostation. So far, Indonesia is able to convince the market to develop from the principles of sustainability through the certification RSPO or through the operating system at the level of the market. It must be exposed. It must be informed. It must be delivered to the EU that Indonesia has already started to the aspects of sustainability and to various policies that have been imposed. So they understand that we are currently aiming for the ideal sustainability but the process needs time and time. But there is progress. It must be informed. Fourth, Indonesia is also willing to offer supply from the CPO because from the area of the supply and production in Indonesia it has the potential to offer supply if it is not controlled by the operating system. With the potential of 14 million 14 million even 16 million and so on. And if the production is active the CPO product is extraordinary. Now the question is whether the domestic market is able to offer supply or the market is ready to make a transaction with this production. If not, Indonesia itself will be forced to offer supply because of the presence of supply. It cannot be stored anywhere and cannot be sold. This must also be something that we think about. And the fifth, I want to tell you in a different context in other questions we have the CPO fund in Indonesia. In our opinion it is still oriented to energy so it is a bit weak to pay attention to the length of the supply and production of the supply and production at the level of supply. So, just look at the incentive given. Is the gap very high between the needs of the biodiesel which is mandatory by the government with the need of sustainability in addition to the government. Connection is the demand of the government that the CPO likes or is not obligatory. So, honestly the government if it chooses not to reduce the supply it can only be done because there is no demand. But it must be admitted that the supply is growing in the field. That is the first thing I want to tell you about why there is a fluctuation in the price at any level. Thank you for your understanding. Next, because it has been discussed about the condition of the supply in the plantations we want to know more about the condition of the farmers itself. Therefore, I would like to ask Ms. McTania to please present yourself onto the screen. We'd like to ask and also dig in your views regarding the fluctuation the level of fluctuation at the farmer level. How has it impacted our farmers? Ms. McTania? Yes, please. Please use the English language. I would like to ask Ms. McTania I would like to follow the code and direction of the plantations that are located in the plantations. What do you think about the plantations? Good. First, I would like to tell you that this order can be reached to the farmers who cannot be left behind. So, please replace me. Then, another interesting point is that in the discussion about the plantations discussed by Mr. Oke, it is interesting that Mr. Prof. Bustanul Arifin mentioned that what is most important about the plantations is the price. When it comes to sustainability or sustainability as mentioned by Prof. Robert Tasi there are three social, economic and environmental and certification we are talking about the focus of the plantations and the planting. But we are also talking about the fluctuation of the economic pillar. What happens is with the fluctuation the economic pillar from the next step to the next step is still a lot. We can say many rooms for improvement for the maintenance of the language. We are talking about the price fluctuation where if we look at Mr. Oke's explanation the price of the CTO of the world is spiking. Because it turns out that Indonesia can provide supplies to many countries that ask for it. In one of the most interesting and ironic of the plantations we are talking about free of charge. Even if we look at the news there are those who want to sell free of charge. Like the presentation where we try to see the growth of the CTO because from the plantations perspective we are talking about the new plantations or fresh fruit bunch when on the top of the global CTO it turns out that as we see it the plantations are free of charge. From this situation it turns out that there are other areas that should be the attention more from the plantations. There are two lines red and blue. What is the meaning of that, Mr. Ibu? There are two categories of plantations and non-nitra. As mentioned earlier from the rule of the government where the government tries to rule we can sit down and have a discussion in the Sawit industry and it turns out that the first rule is the Plasmas. Then it grows until the new rule in the first year of 2018 the change of the Dixie becomes Mitra and Non-Mitra. It turns out there are differences in the gap. This is what happens. So if we ask the market price fluctuation the world's oil if we ask a big and turbulent for the Sawit industry because it turns out it turns out that as mentioned earlier the system should be strengthened if we want traceability we want no deforestation actually there are many answers when this system we build it with power then it will be able to where the plants can really sit become a container that is protected protected by the market mechanism that can up and down, up and down back to the government authority because this is the one country the Indonesian public does the government want to change the authority about the continuation back to what Professor Nasi said actually the Sawit industry is a category of plants that is not like paddy because at the beginning of the year in Papua like this in the forest so if we want to say no deforestation there is an automatic answer according to me so according to us we ask and especially there is a signal that the price is still a lot showing a big impact to us farmers that can actually be a learning that can be further spread to become a material of discussion because this theme is for a high profile discussion to give insight what's next what's the take out and then what's the action plan so this is what I think can be a point point to protect us what is under this if there is a price above the lower price so when there is a price outside the lower price then there will be a sanction or there is a protection like what there is always a question and room for development thank you we will continue next we will be successful because at the same time we also want to get insight from Mr. Nurhanuddin from Kacamata Bapak regarding the price fluctuation how is the system and what should be done especially as said by Bumaria McTanya regarding the condition or how about our farmers thank you for a few thank you first of all I would like to say there is a group that people are interested this is a group in our community we have about 10 million people in my opinion once discussion after sustainability that should be done by the group other than me there is also a group next I would also like to mention we are also collecting a lot of data we have a lot of agraria in our community we have a lot of data in my opinion I think it should be done in the future back to the previous question about the fluctuation if the action is correct fluctuation is one of my opinion but how fluctuation does not have a lot of data this group we have to adapt we manage I think it is important how to move forward the people the people who say we have to adapt with the local conditions I imagine in this community the government should define who is one because the definition we have is still very complicated how to build the two buildings that is my opinion the government should clarify so that there is no a condition to make a better condition we can do it do not reach a wide range in comparison we have not yet reached there so it is still very complicated where the discussion was held earlier I think it is more detailed so that which is what I think next I think it is also interesting with the group situation that we have Mr. Agus, Mr. Pestanol but in this context it is important to define a condition the price earlier I there is an idea actually in this price range we also have a different price maybe we can use how we have a concept like there is a basic price maybe we can continue when we have this we can see that price which good that's the price will be applied although there is a lot of current conditions the price will also increase but the price will increase the speakers are not different but the small 2 ha for such a long time I think it is important for us to keep this in mind in the future if we really want to achieve something that we can do in the next 40 years. There will be a national action plan for the next generation. These are the things that should be answered. I understand that the government has a lot of good policy, but it may not implement it. The national action plan for the next generation has just been implemented in 9 provinces. There are 25 provinces that have a lot of good policy. There are 247 cities that have a lot of good policy. In the future, there will be less than 15 cities. 15 cities that have a lot of good policy. It has just been implemented. I imagine that the government should have a lot of good policy. The government should have a lot of good policy. And the government should have a lot of good policy. So that the government can understand the problem of the economy and the condition of the economy. But if that can be solved, I believe that it can be solved with the government. Because of the current situation. There are other conditions that I think are important. The situation here is also not only important. The consumer has also been affected. Where the consumer is in a position to accept and appreciate what is happening. In my opinion, Wall Street is in the middle of Oka. Now the situation is getting better. In my opinion, I don't think it's too late. Maybe I should thank you first. Thank you, Mr. Nurhanudin, for your additional questions. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our question and answer session. For those of you. I just commented on the value fluctuation. It turns out that now it is connected to sustainability. So, I wonder why this is my point of view to comment. Because of my career path, I have been involved in sustainability. That is why I have been involved in a business in Belgium, in Brussels. With Europe and us, we have a lot of discussions about sustainability. With the current climate, especially the issue of climate change, we need, what is it called, mitigation, climate change. And that, in the journey, it is important for us to do mitigation towards climate change. And at this time, the answer is environmental sustainability. For sustainability, as I mentioned earlier, the word is certification. And the word certification becomes a specific challenge for the condition of Indonesia. Because previously, it was very significant to the presence of petanists in Indonesia. That is the first. But what is not clear is the sustainability itself. We are talking about sustainability, where is it going? This is the problem that has always been discussed. The answer is certification. But certification has aspects that become criteria in certification. That is also not clear. Because previously it was not clear for petanists who are only small, 1 or 2 hectares, if the big one is okay. The direction of sustainability, the direction of certification, where is it going? Is it a product sustainability or a trade sustainability? Sustainable trade? Sustainability supply? Sustainability demand? But all of this is related to environmental awareness. Isn't sustainability the definition of sustainability is too far? Mr. Haripurno, if I am not mistaken, sustainability is nothing because of employment and traceability. That is the main thing. Even though in Indonesia, with these challenges, even in G20, we are facing a sustainable development goal. Right? Where the key point is poverty alleviation. That is the way the word is. Poverty for Indonesia makes the meaning so that with poverty alleviation, this is a rural area. The one used by Koteca can now use a mobile phone. That is why poverty alleviation. Right? But why is it always directed to the employment? Employment must be used by the people. Only then can it be certified. There was a photo of it. It was not certified. It can be certified. Right? But is this suitable for Indonesia who used to be a farmer with a small farm? Right? Only one or two hectares. But it is filled with very challenging conditions for them. And they are difficult for them. Especially at different prices. Especially, the attention of the employment is still not optimal compared to what I have said about the farm. The plasm is okay. The farm with various reasons does not meet the standard of quality and so on. Meanwhile, they must follow the environmental sustainability in the climate change sector. This is the problem until now and it is challenging. And there is a difference between I am sorry that there is a difference between RSPO and ISPO. That the development of sustainability is more directed by the country that is more advanced and more this. I think for them it is related to unemployment sustainability is related to traceability is related to biodiversity and so on. Meanwhile, Mr. Forty-Elevation has never wanted it. That is important for us. That is the challenge for us over the elevation. Now talking about the farm level that was mentioned earlier this is the impact. Now for us the impact for the farm level is not because of the price. Because they are the price that happens because it is considered not sustainable. Not quality. Not worth it. Even there is a difference that is related to the environment especially the environment. This one. And not yet the owner and the owner of the farm. That is what happens. What is important for us. I have to comment because this farm is something that is strategic for us even for the international export to enter the division but one of the only because the farm is competitive so we have to environment sustainability for the farm. But there is never a story that I told you about. Sustainable for Kanolawin. Sustainable for Kedelay. Sustainable for the environment. Even earlier the farm was contributing to the emission of CO2. Right? But earlier the competitive aspect until because I was a diplomat doing the operation is because the competitive is disturbing the products of other types of oil and oil. I remember this story very disturbing disturbing. And earlier at the level I now the government is improving at the farm level the farmers that not the mother-in-law but the family the farmers I agree at the level of the price but at the time the the farmers is because there is a lack of commitment from the businessmen the government at that time needs to stop the businessmen from doing the export ban. At that time we need to disturb so the businessmen do not ensure the direction of the president to provide fried oil with affordable price even earlier because the margin that is too much a lot that benefits this situation for self-interest needs to be appreciated by the government. The government does not refuse to take the policy no matter they are not cooperative with the export ban. The impact is immediately affected by the CPO price and disconnected because the international price has always been the CPO in Indonesia depends on the price of the CPO as long as the price of the CPO is not relevant with the international price there is no problem with the farmers there is an export ban disconnected between the international CPO with the KPBN price the international CPO price while the KPBN price is far away we are improving and it is easy and good the target of the president is above 2,000 now the price of the CPO is 2,000 or above 2,000 but the price is not too far as before the price of the CPO can be doubled the price of the CPO what we do is the must be the price of the CPO is connected to the international CPO not to the KPBN because the KPBN the contribution is small the price of the reference price that is spent is followed by the international price because it will be continued but this is the market mechanism that the CPO depends on the KPBN that the transaction is only for 3 million so that is the effect so we are improving now the price is getting better the international price is getting better it is not yet it will always reach the farmers especially with the inflation rate that is rising in several countries Indonesia is estimated at the end of the year so that it is big enough even though it is better than other countries we estimate the inflation rate at 7% and this will reach the farmers the price will rise the price will rise especially if the inflation rate will rise the inflation rate will rise this will affect everything but we still estimate here is sustainable the palm oil is the one that is related to the farmers not sustainable that is related to climate change but at this time it is also important sustainable for the farmers so the definition of sustainable and the criteria of sustainable is not the focus that is developed by the country but I agree we have to develop our own definition about sustainable palm oil and offer television thank you this is a more comprehensive explanation for all of us and because we are tired many of you have started to think about lunch it is 12 o'clock please ask to open the slide are there any questions that have been submitted through Slido and for those of you who are here maybe we will start with the Slido first if there is still time please prepare one more microphone because there are questions directly on the screen I will read this is the first question I cannot see the screen the first question is for Agus Purnomo is there any implementation of sustainability for example international certification or ISPO has an impact on the value of the CPO in return for sales to market mechanisms to get a better domestic value please Agus if the question regarding international standardization with domestic value I cannot answer and I will answer for domestic value but if the impact of certification on the value the impact is there and that gives what was mentioned by Prof. Inul is the premium price so things that have sustainability it will be bought with a higher price the problem is indeed there is still a little bit of certification so that the premium price can be minimized also not much and the premium is also different there is a segregated or identity preserved from trees to products that are sold to foreign countries the sumber is known clearly the oil is clear if still mixed in tanking for example there is a mass balance then the premium will be lower and that is what we often see as premium price for sustainability as long as the premium price is there sustainability cost can be covered the problem that wants to prepare a little more that is just a little and the market is there that is also the most important market while the larger market wants to find the cheapest price and not so concerned with sustainability so sustainability becomes a burden for the producers in the company because consumers are willing to contribute they still want the cheapest but sustainable that cannot be sustainable there is a limit thank you Mr. Agus and please can you answer Mr. Oke please the answer is actually the question is the implementation of sustainability such as certification or expo has an impact on the price of the company and so on I may see from the other side because the problem of sustainability as mentioned is the problem of environmental sustainability linked to climate change so there is no limit this is our importance to take care of the global environment but this will impact all areas to that well there is a premium price in the land because the company only takes a sustainable certificate that is why the market doesn't do the certificate the standard price is sustainable in returning to the market to get a good domestic price I have an experience that that our product there is a development from Europe must be traceable and so on there is a difference from us that if the product is traceable the premium price doesn't happen there is no there is the market that environmental friendly it is getting as long as the people in Indonesia not yet I am sorry I am talking about sustainability there is a difference with the oil market which is more hygienic for the people 42 percent of the oil market is dirty the only thing left in the world is that is it responsible for sustainability for Indonesia the oil market is still needed right so is the oil market getting a premium price it doesn't happen because the people still choose the market thank you we will continue to the next question father and mother for Panitia will we open the slide or can we directly please father Panitia will prepare the microphone please thank you from Gabki maybe we don't ask to give an additional explanation regarding the information especially about the ISEPU certification because a lot of people asked so now there are 895 certificates with total area 5.187 million hectares from 895 Angkota Gabki 560 or 64 percent there is also a cooperation 26 cooperation throughout 2020 so the cooperation is already on the track to the ISEPU certification because in the new ISEPU system in 2024 in 2028 in 2025 the ISEPU certification will be required to get the incentive for the ISEPU audit to be carried out by BPDKS and also at this time the ISEPU certification has been carried out for socialization for sustainability and in 2025 all the certificates can be made by ISEPU especially now total certificates for the certificates is 41 percent 12 million hectares then there is a question I want to explain between ISEPU and MSBO 3 certificates 3 are the dominance actually for principles and criteria the 33 certificates are identical only the heading is different but the content is similar indeed in the ISEPU it is still voluntary but if ISEPU and NSBO are mandatory then the difference is useful if in the ISEPU there is a premium price and I have several times mentioned that there is a premium price but if in the ISEPU MSBO there is no incentive for TBS or CPO for ISEPU that's a bit of a joke thank you thank you thank you and as I said there is a next question from one of the speakers thank you for the information please please please my name is ISEPU from the POPSI Association of Tani Sawit from Tani Suwada yes because it is enough for cooking oil that is expensive in Tani if we look the production of the oil is from year to year and if we look the biodiesel is rising until now it is 12 million millions of liters if cooking oil is a bit only 3 million cooking oil is needed by the people not by the industry because in that area the business of Sawit is destroyed this is a dilemma for us all of that is a lesson for us especially in the government or in the business in the business itself there are fairs there are fairs for the TBS of Tani there are some permanent in 2018 but it is not used as writing writing this is what we need to discuss later this will be changed in the RPC the 0.1.2 we will discuss about this change about sustainable we have followed RANS-KSB the one in there is sustainable we will follow in the future the PSR will be launched in 2024 it will be a bomb stock it will happen because in the past the TANAM was not good with the PSR it will be a production because the government is hoping to control the COOKING OIL the biodiesel or the export the government then from the business we have criticized the business we have tried to train the TANAM for good agricultural we have tried to accept there is no no sanction this is what we hope what from the business what the business for the business we have done we follow the RANS-KSB follow the RSVU so that the business this is what we need in the future from the 2015 we have used the TANAM certification this is what we ask the question is what from the government especially what what the DMO for Indonesia because Indonesia is one of the biggest CPU for the domestic needs thank you I would like to answer or comment the question is this is starting from the question that the government in supply chain the problem starting from the community they take the margin because they take the benefit then sell it then I am a copy team in the trade hub it is worse so I am tired I have been trained to take the red card so that the quality of the coffee is good they mix it again they take the function in grading the sustainability there is also a question the question what to do it is true one of the because the price is wrong maybe Bumaria can confirm Mas Rambu can confirm one of the because the customer doesn't want to buy they ask a good question there is no place where they are full they are still waiting but the price is right if there is access there is Mas Bungi said the price is added so that there is a combination so that the government from supply chain to the end there is a place if only certification first but they don't get a good price I I just asked I am a coffee team in the trade hub later the wildlife team more parallel we will make the discussion the context if there is additional access maybe there is incentive to the income or to the farmers who have city the income is added then they don't have to be afraid but there is one more we haven't discussed if the CPO or the TBS is in the in the team then there is a question about the fatty acid that there is a question about the health that we haven't discussed but if the capacity of supply chain is very high maybe there is a benefit maybe Mr. Atos can add please Mr. Deserico I share the experience we have in the TKL we are a secret team association of the government to try to answer such questions so first we have to admit the space in the area then with the presence of the mill the game is high so the high production is a little so don't tell the other this capacity has never been educated that we have offered supply we have supplied so the supply chain the area the supply chain what is the name the province this is one question that we have to do every farmer in the supply chain must be educated so that the expansion is not happening every day because of the price they have a certain capacity to do so what is done by the TKL so this is the 8th we are in Sanggao province with the government in an agreement between the government and the Sawit company especially the mills to do the best for farmers who have reached through the STDB to do the certification especially to get DO so if we talk about the difference the sustainability price and the non-sustainability price so we try to gather the farmers who already have this high commitment get the premium price in case they get special DO especially in the area what is the area that has been verified in the area first of all the green area the STDB principle and the company have a commitment to do the best for them so first of all we get open access to get the best price so the price can be 2100 maybe by adding 100 or 2200 or 2300 we can achieve sustainability in Kabupaten that is what we are trying to do in Kabupaten it turns out we do it in Kabupaten so the LTKL is only in Angkota we try to gather the commitment there are unilever, PepsiCo there are Musimas we try to invite them we inform the government this is the area your source that already have the STDB roughly with our commitment to do the best to take care of the STDB what is your response to them so there is a dialogue between the government and the company the government move with the standard price but on the other hand the special price should be paid to them that is the experience that we have put in Kabupaten thank you share your experience how are you answering the questions because of the limited time because of the time maybe because of the discussion there are a lot of questions I don't think it's possible but after the talk show there is a microphone it's okay after the talk show is it okay? are you ready or do you want to ask about the time keeping okay because of the limited time please excuse me after the talk show thank you thank you awesome all the insight and experiences thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you ladies and gentlemen thank you