 Hello, everyone. I have a treat for you today. I am here with someone who is running to represent Ohio's 11th Congressional District And not just anybody. I am here with the legend senator Nina Turner. Hello, somebody senator. Welcome to the program Hello, Mike. It is so good to be on the show with you. I have admired you for years You are one of the best and I mean one of the best Progressive firebrands that we have on independent media and I just love you madly. I just want everybody know it I'm just gonna put it out there Madly that means so much coming from you and of course the feeling is obviously mutual I've done so many interviews with congressional candidates politicians members of Congress. This is the first one where I'm like genuinely Like I'm starstruck almost like it feels surreal because like someone that you look up to so much Who has been like your inspiration who like picks you up like to talk to that individual to talk to you It just feels really really nice I'm so excited to pick your brain about so much because you were just like a data bank of information So I wanted to ask you I think that everyone who's watching knows what to expect from you from a policy standpoint But can you just explain like what made you want to run and continue the fight? And what do you think you would bring that's different from other members of Congress like what are your unique attributes that you think you'd contribute? Yeah, thank you so much for that Mike, and I'm I am excited to I mean we have more progressives in that Congress than we have had Over the last 10 to 20 years that is for sure And it will be the combination of all of our gifts and talents putting it together I know I'm probably dating myself But there was a show called the super friends the older older version not the real fancy version when I was growing up And it was the Wonder Twins and so hopefully somebody that came relate to what I'm about to say But the Wonder Twins their powers only worked Really they were optimized when they were together and every time they had to tackle something, you know fight a villain It was wonder twin powers Activate and so for me, that's really how I see myself going into that Congress that is not just any one of the progressives or the super progressives Well, we just created a new group here the super progressives But it's it's it's the wonder twin powers activate and for me I do bring a righteous indignation and I think the way that I express The matter of fact, I know the way that I express that righteous indignation is unique I lean a lot on my proximity to pain and Understand and we all have a story everybody that watches you and loves you and listens to you You know has a story everybody in Congress has a story those stories are different Everybody has a story, but it's how you put that story out there. So my proximity to pain is in full effect I never want to forget what it's like I have been in the poor category to work in poor category in the barely middle class And I do understand in this unique moment Mike We don't have time to waste and and and that you know I had a boy used to work for a mayor of the city of Cleveland He was the second African-American mayor elected to the city of Cleveland and I had the opportunity to serve in his cabinet And one of the things about serving on the local level government So I served in his cabinet and then I also became a city councilwoman But one of the things that I learned from him is that people have 24 hour seven day a week Problems and challenges. And so I know I'm not the only one that brings local elected experience to that Congress But I I live that I mean that is part of what makes me me That experience about being on the executive side of local government and also on the elected side of local government But mayor whites always say if your share is on fire You ought to act like your hair is on fire. Well, guess what my hair is on fire You know why it's on fire because too many people in this country are suffering And you have people at the highest offices of the land Making excuses as to why we can't push policy to help ameliorate those challenges So I am not gonna sit around me and prim and proper I am going to express the requisite amount of passion and outrage My hair is on fire for the suffering people of this country And I think that that's exactly why you resonate with so many people because everyone is feeling it right now Everyone is feeling as if you know our heads are over water We have a limited window to act when it comes to climate change and nobody's really Speaking with the urgency that's necessary for this moment and how severe things are in the country And I think that the way that you speak to it It really does Captivate people it gets them motivated in a way where like it gives us this news perspective where it's okay to be angry And we should be angry in fact That's good because we can use that anger to propel us to actually take action So I wanted to ask you because there's a lot that's going on right now We just saw the CNN Town Hall with Joe Biden where he said he wouldn't commit to Canceling more than ten thousand dollars worth of student debt I don't necessarily know that Democrats would be open overall to Medicare for all we know that Joe Biden wouldn't so my question for you is in times like this where We don't have people in power That want to push for policies that we desperately need especially Medicare for all during a pandemic How do we fight for those types of things? Like I know that organizing is important, but at the congressional level like how do you push For these policies when you have a party that isn't technically the opposition party, but they're in opposition to us So how do you fight for that in these times? Now we got a kid I mean I wish I had a magic wand to make it happen Automatically, I would definitely do that. They're really I Want the American people to know that there really is no excuse and a hedge money nation for us to be the only Industrialized nation not to push for Medicare for all for our people not just push Pass it. Just just just flat out pass. There really are no excuses for that So for me, I mean, I I don't have a magic wand to be able to do with this other than that Pushing part is really what we must do and we have to see the grassroots Bubbling up in this country and to continue to be outraged by the fact that especially as you just said in a pandemic that we The collective we whether they're Democrats Republicans However, this is not about their political leanings. It is about people Literally dying and or losing their livelihoods. I don't know what else it takes to move people to Medicare for all If this pandemic doesn't do it, we have to begin to question our Commitment as a nation. So we're saying one thing and I'm saying we Saying one thing politicians are saying one thing, but they're actually doing another You know during the celebration of MLK, for example, Dr. Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. You got all these people quoting him But they won't act in the same manner that he would act and that he encouraged all of us to act not in moments like this Especially we know that the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Supported that he that he supported Healthcare he talked about of all the injustices, you know, all of the things that he has seen the injustice and healthcare was one of those He talked about militarism materialism and war All of these things combined and not just the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. There were other she rose and heroes that were fighting at all times against the status quo So what I would say Michael is that I don't want us to lose sight of why it is Important to push and why the grassroots in this case is even more important than who is in the Congress and in the White House Because all of the great changes social justice type changes that have ever happened in this country Have come from everyday people putting a little extra on their ordinary so they extraordinary things can happen That's one part of the other part of it is that taking that righteous indignation and that anger to the ballot box at all times Making a demand and making sure that there are consequences to those demands those things work in concert so electing progressives from all levels of government not just the Congress and then Making sure that there's a consequence for people not acting on the things that we Need that is how the change is gonna come There is no other way for that change to come But the bubbling up of the grassroots and having people in elected office who actually care more about the next generation Then they care about their next election. We got to do it. There's there's no other way that change happens Yeah, I think that's a brilliant point. I mean that that really does make a lot of sense There's no real accountability mechanism in the United States like Joe Biden for example can say I'm not gonna cancel more than 10,000 and really all we can do is vocalize Anger and outrage, but there's no like political mechanisms at this moment, you know, most Democrats Maybe they disagree with him. Maybe they agree with him, but they're they're not going to really hold him accountable in a meaningful way So that's why I think it's really important that we do, you know, institute these types of strategies where we bring together the grassroots and We also build that block in Congress I did want to get your take on members of the squad So rightly or wrongly people have been feeling a little bit demoralized Because they feel as if the squad doesn't necessarily push back on Democratic Party leadership enough And I wanted to get your take on this because I do feel a little bit mixed on this on one hand They are the only members who ever push back on leadership in the Democratic Party But perhaps they could be more forceful. Perhaps they could, you know Choose to fight even more battles with them What is your take on this because I think it's really complicated because on one hand The members of the Democratic Party have a lot of institutional power and they could use their power To really silence and suppress, you know, these progressives, but at the same time Um, it's frustrating because there's so much that's at stake. So many people suffering who want Medicare for all Student debt cancellation that, you know, this the standards are really high for members of the squad So what is your take in terms of like how You think they're faring as members of the squad and whether or not your approach would differ in comparison with theirs To Democratic Party leadership in particular Mike you're you're right. It is complicated. That's the first thing I need the grassroots to understand Especially progressives and I know progressives are disappointed. I mean we tried 2016 2020 I get it so for me as as a leader not just somebody elect because there are things that I can do In committee things I can do on the floor of congress But there's also things that I can do in my community and also across this country So don't I want to say don't be disappointed. You got to have some understanding. It's okay to be disappointed But the the squad is the is is is ultimately the best that we have in terms of being able to push an agenda And what that means is that you might not always agree with the methods I need people to understand that When you are on the inside it doesn't mean that you are selling out I know they they've gotten a lot of pressure But they are the ones up there holding it down They they're they're pushing as hard as they can and just because things are not going Exactly the way just because they're not using the exact tactics that some In the activist community want them to use that doesn't mean that you throw them away because guess what If you're throwing away members of the squad who are our best Opportunity to get what we need and also some members of that progressive caucus Then you're not going to have anybody there So if the prerequisite in summation if the prerequisite for relationship Means that I have to do or the squad has to do everything you say the way you say do it Then there's not much of a relationship at all And and and that you're going to be disappointed. Hell they're going to be disappointed with me I said that to tim black when we interviewed i'm saying it to you mic I want them to know you're going to be disappointed at some point But that does not mean that you give up totally on the people who are the best Fighting chance that you have and then there's something called strategy So the grassroots strategy is different than the strategy once you are on the inside You will know when somebody is sold out and I assure you that the squad Has not underline bold underscore sold out in any way They need the grassroots You can hold hold them accountable, but you don't throw them away I mean some of the pressures even what congresswoman cori bush. I just want to use her as the example I mean she just got there Tell overall the squad members overall just got there even the ones who've been there a little longer And then you have people just throwing up their hands Throwing them away just because they're not using the taxes that you want them to use You don't know what is going on And so part of the thing that I want to do outside of what I do And I'm claiming this on the floor of the of the house of representatives and also as a member of committee Is to also continue to Educate and bring people I just want people to see it Different ways to get understanding Stephen Stephen cubby one of the most world-renowned leadership gurus has a quote that I love He said speak first to understand and then to be understood That doesn't mean we're always agree, but at least let's give each other enough bandwidth to understand and for the love of god Do not throw away my line The squad members it doesn't mean you're not going to be disappointed, but to throw them away is is is at our own pair It really is Yeah, I I agree with that 100 percent. I think that there's a difference between holding members of congress accountable and completely like disregarding them Relegating them to like the trash bin as if they're useless It doesn't necessarily seem like a lot has changed because from a policy standpoint like what's being codified into law hasn't But at the same time when you look at what these individual members of congress have managed to accomplish It is substantial and I get that there is a lot that needs to be done But I mean Ilhan Omar single-handedly introduced one of the most important bills canceling all student loan debt Corey bush is one of the only members of congress. I've ever heard in a direct way talk about reparations That's really significant. That's something that hasn't happened at least since I've been alive and so like to me I understand like cause for disappointment because Things need to happen fast and it's not happening fast enough And so what I think that we have to do is hold the right people accountable And that doesn't necessarily mean that you give members of the squad a pass and other progressive members of congress Pramila Jayapal introduced Medicare for all But it does mean that we need to direct our anger towards Better people uh individuals on committees who are absolutely obstacles to progress, you know, richie neil for example Individuals in leadership who are very directly blocking the things that we want to get accomplished And so like I think that it's important for you to say that to put things into perspective because I totally agree with what you're saying You know, there are times where I disagree with the strategy of members of the squad but that doesn't necessarily mean that What they're doing is bad or they've sold out as you stated because when you're in congress things are so different because There's so much pressure. I think that representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said it best that like the minute you get in there You are bombarded with all of these voices in your head You know of people trying to influence you in a certain way and so it does change things It changes the way that you behave, you know when you are an activist An organizer and a member of congress, but that doesn't necessarily mean that these folks have lost sight of what's important and I think that that is Important to say did you want to add to that? Yeah, I did Touch people to to listen to their hopes and dreams and their fears and and the struggle is real even before the The pandemic, but we all have a role to play the members that we elect the congress have a role to play And we the people have a role to play too And I want folks to know that and just kind of Own that that space and keep pushing and fighting because that is ultimately what is going to get us To where we need to be in this country and the progressive movement has to be more organized and more agile And we got to stop the circular No, I mean just by way of an example, you know, I tweeted black history month Tweeted something that president Barack Obama said and I can't tell you the numbers of people who were We're disappointed. We're mortified going away from your way just because I gave a quote Barack Obama who I did not agree with at all times People need to focus on the main things are to continue to elect Progressives who have bold policies who will stand up and who will fight on the inside Coupled with not separate from but coupled with a grass roots bubbling up that will never go away That is what that's that's what we need the grassroots can never go away Because that's how we're gonna get this change people can't lose sight of it Mike I know people are disappointed mad at hell and suffering like hell too I get it but but god and you know what you gave those examples about The the various pieces that have been introduced from from Medicare for all with congresswoman Diya paul all the way to congresswoman cori bush on reparations Which I will be joining her in that choir But you know what that's $15 an hour minimum wage is on the house side And you know why it's there is because the congressional probably most likely going to pass on the house side Now we got to go over there do the fight on the senate side So we are making strong gains we are Yeah, yeah, and I think that it's really really important to like keep things into perspective where we are now is I think entirely different than where we were Five years ago, for example, I think that the overton window has shifted Largely because of the grassroots because of members of the squad and to talk about things like single-payer health care and reparations I mean that that really is in and of itself a victory And I get that this is all rhetoric and it's not the same thing as actually like getting this pass But it still does matter talking about these things that were basically not acceptable to even discuss Uh, it matters to talk about socialism versus capitalism to even criticize capitalism Is a different thing for america. So we are changing. It's not just the political change that we're going through I also think it's somewhat cultural as well where members of american society are starting to kind of wake up and realize Hey in comparison with our neighbors north of the border canada. We're kind of getting a bad deal when it comes to health care We shouldn't have to Pay monthly for health care that we don't like that doesn't cover everything that doesn't protect us from bankruptcy So I am I am starting to see things change Is it fast enough? Of course not but the fact that we're making progress and we're moving in the correct direction You know it is important and sometimes I get down and I forget about that But really just comparing to what this country looked like It is moving in a better direction. Um, and I think that largely members of the squad and the grassroots And constant pressure on the democratic party establishment is what's responsible for that I did want to ask you about one thing. Um, usually members who run for congress I always ask them this question the legislation unfortunately hasn't been introduced for this term as of yet It was previously hr 4 000. It's called the fair representation act by don byers jr And basically this in my opinion is really the first step in getting electoral reform in the united states So what this would do is a couple of things it would introduce ranked choice voting Um nationwide, which I think is really important Um, it also would end gerrymandering and it would move us towards a more proportional system So that way rather than all of us having just one representative in congress, maybe we have two or three so that folks who Uh, traditionally wouldn't have representation actually get someone in congress fighting for them Would you be open to supporting something like this or if it's not reintroduced? perhaps like Elevating this as an issue because for me I I do support initiatives like the for the people act um hr 1 in congress that the democratic party has uh introduced in the senate and the house But I do think we need to go further and I just wanted to get your take on this type of legislation and whether or not you'd support it Absolutely That's awesome. That's exactly what I wanted to hear You know, it's it's hard to get members of congress who have been there for a really long time to support something like ranked choice voting that might open the door to like third and fourth parties because that very Deliberately will diminish the amounts of power that they have so it's kind of hard to like get someone To support something that technically isn't in their self-interest as a politician But what I love about this new generation of members of congress is that they're not running for Self-aggrandizing reasons. They're not careerists like they want to help people And so these are the individuals members of the squad yourself who I think we have a real opportunity to actually like get this On the agenda or at least talk about it, which is important another thing that I really wanted to ask you about is The anti-war movement that's lacking in this country both at a grassroots level, but a congressional level I think that there are some members of congress who really deserve a lot of praise Such as rokhana. For example, what is your take? Like what do you think is the missing factor? Like why is it that? Democrats at large not necessarily members of the squad. Why are they Comparable to republicans in the early 2000s. Like why has the issue of war Not really moved much when we are making progress on other progressive issues in your opinion Two things one is the donor class or the owner class I can't tell the difference right the owner donors. I call them the owner donors, but that's accurate That right choice and other other changes to our electoral system We we got to have those things change and just one point before I directly answer that question The diminishment diminishing the power of who? Because people who are elected to office whether it's the congress or a dog catcher in this country If you are elected, you are holding the people's power and every single day Privileged enough to hold the people's power should be doing things that edify and lift the people and not ourselves And so if we are afraid to make systemic change because we think it's going to diminish our Individual power, but then we're we're an elected ministry for the wrong reasons And I do call it a ministry because I do believe that you also love that you cannot serve that which you do not love And that is another reason why where my right is indignation But to your point Um about war so one is the owner donors So we need campaign financial form Stacked the owner donors because that gets in the way of every other thing that we care about every other thing That we are pushing is tied to that that's from a part of america's promise You know campaign finance that that whole perform effort and then i'm also involved with some groups That are standing up against the project that i've been working on with the very old ben kohen minister of ice cream himself one of the co-founders of ben and jerry's And he has been for the last 30 years pushing us to understand that if we are pouring what Almost 60 a little less than 60 percent of our industrial complex that same money What is about 720 billion dollars would have be could be going towards more Healthcare name of domestic need that money could be going there We have to understand that our strength and we need the american people Look, we're gonna be strong We we we put more money in the military industrial complex than the next seven We have to have a paradigm shift of what it needs to be strong It's not war the man that our elected officials be the democrat overpublicans see strength In a different way to educate your citizens in this country from pre-k to college or vocational school It's strong to have Medicare for all It's in this country. It's strong to make sure that our essential workers our front line workers Have had to pay it to make that demand is strong to increase the minimum wage I mean all of how do we see And interpret strength that is it Mike and that one issue right there Is never going to change unless the grassroots put the heat On the people they elect Beautifully put so I don't want to take up too much more of your time But I do want to give you the opportunity to let my viewers know What is it that you need from us to make sure that We get you in congress because I know that it's easy to get complacent because you're a rock star But we still have to fight. It's not going to be an easy battle. What do you need from us? $6 and $28. I think we're back at that So I'll be a raise money from all over this country and my whole state of Ohio We're well at 25,000 You know people in the great state of Ohio or donors in in the state Donating to this campaign this campaign because it's not just about me. It's about I'm running But I know I'm the tool I'm a conduit But beyond the 11 congressional district and serving my constituents who will Hopefully send me to that congress. I know by extension. What makes my district strong Is is also what makes will make the rest of the country strong. It's the movement So for me, Mike, it is not it's it's my district But it's also continuing to add to this robust powerful beautiful Rampunctious Movement that we have that will get us the change that we need so time challenge treasure Go to Nina Turner dot com donate three dollars two dollars even one dollar will help our campaign And if you can volunteer there are volunteerships to make calls or to text Please do that and you will help us go to congress and I'm taking the poor to work important barely middle class to those halls with me Starting with the great people of the 11th congressional district Who will send me there and by extension all of our sisters and brothers who believe enough in this campaign and our movement And our mission to donate to this campaign Well, thank you so much senator Turner. It has been an absolute pleasure I hope that I can bring you on again sometime soon if not Hopefully the next time I speak to you you will be a member of congress either way We're going to fight like hell to make sure that this happens. Hello somebody. Thank you so much for coming on the program Hello somebody