 Okay, we're back. We're live. We're here on Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. It's a Thursday morning and Alan Oshima joins us. It's a very important person. He was the CEO of Hawaiian Electric until just a few weeks ago. But David E. Gay, the governor, recently announced that Alan was appointed Hawaiian Electrics, or rather, he was appointed to lead a statewide COVID-19 recovery initiative. And he made a proclamation to give Alan a role in that office to head the Hawaii Economic and Community Recovery and Resiliency Plan to lead a collaborative effort with government business nonprofits all around the community to develop a plan for Hawaii to recover economically. Welcome to the show, Alan. So nice to have you here. Yeah, thanks, Jay. One footnote to that is recovery economically, but also recovery on a social basis. Yes, thank you. Yes, thank you. And before we get into exactly what that means, I just want to ask you, we're in a kind of funny place because I think that the president started talking about recovery before they had any kind of mutual agreement among the White House and the various medical advisors as to the steps necessary to flatten the curve and prevent a second wave of infection. So there's really two steps involved. What are your thoughts about that? Oh, I mean, if you... I happened to, during the process, tune on to Governor Cuomo's press briefings that really dealt with the actual crisis and the medical issues and the statistics and data and shortages. So I totally agree with his approach. And I think most people do to be guided by science and reality. And the public health part is critical to any reopening. You cannot reopen on a hope and a prayer. That's just the reality. And it's not just for Hawaii, it's not just for people coming to Hawaii, but it's for people who live here and have to deal with the day-to-day issues. And public health is so important, right? We know that. And so it affects as employers bring employees back from their homes into the workplace. Those employees have to feel safe, that public health has their backs and social distancing or whatever the new norms are going to be in the workplace are going to be effective. When we shop, same thing. When we go to a restaurant, same thing, right? So the new normal until we reach an actual stability and a vaccination is going to be different from what we were experiencing before. Yeah, really, there's two parts of the timeline. And I guess the part now, the most challenging part, is to do recovery, but at the same time, protect people from infection and reinfection. So it's a graduated system and it's a system that assumes that we don't really have a vaccine yet. We have no therapeutics that are dramatically going to cure you. So you have to work both at the same time. How do you see the progression on that, Alan? It's really changing day by day and you have to watch the data and you have to watch what General Hara is doing and Bruce Anderson are doing all in the COVID-19 Task Force under Haima and the Department of Health. We have private parties as well under the Hawaii Business Roundtable, Hawaii Executive Conference, private insurers are all stepping in and the Senate and House Task Forces are all adding to the conversation. So there's a new Task Force, not new, but leadership has been convened to come up with a plan that includes all sectors as to what we need to consider in Hawaii. Because Hawaii is unique, we have geographic isolation. So those are some benefits, but there's also some economic issues with that. But I think we can chart our own course with great public health input and then a plan to reopen in steps. And that's all underway right now. Very interesting. And I'm so glad they selected you because it seems to me that you need to have somebody local to appreciate the special Hawaii culture Hawaii has a special culture about health. I mean, it goes back into the monarchy in the 19th century. We lost a lot of people to epidemics back in the 19th century that immigrants of howlies mostly who came from New England and the US brought to these islands and we developed a very strong emphasis on public health. So there's a culture here. And so I think we have to have somebody who is familiar with that culture. We have to have somebody who is familiar with the business environment and who knows the people. And as a CEO of Hawaiian Electric, Hawaiian Electric is a company that covers the whole community. It reaches out into the whole economic experience of Hawaii. So you know the people, you know the economic experience. This really in my opinion, a perfect selection and a perfect time because now you've graduated from the CEO job and this will be a tremendous contribution to the state given your understanding of your knowledge. So wow, I'm so excited about your appointment. But let me, let me... I always wanted to bring you back though that the appointment was not only on the economic sector where the economy cannot survive without the nonprofits without the cultural aspect, without the community input. And this gives us an opportunity to come together and bring all voices to the table as we chart our course. We first have to stabilize, right? The stabilizing part may not allow us to have all those voices all at once because you have to make some quick decisions, but we're still trying. And then as you get into the recovery and then the resiliency part, those voices will become even more important as we chart our new course for Hawaii. Can you define those three parts? And that was written up in the newspaper, three parts, stabilization, recovery, resiliency. And I guess stabilization is the first one and that includes the allocation of the coronavirus aid, relief and economic security at CARES. It was an article in today's paper about how the money, at least in one area had dried up already, but that's still, you know, a working, something working in the federal government, maybe there'd be more money and we'll have the same kind of allocation issues. Anyway, can you describe the progression from stabilization to recovery to resiliency? Sure, and frankly, I think the CARES act and our congressional delegation, the role they played in all of that and are still playing is an important part. And I want to highlight something that I got reported in the news, but it was happening in real time a few weekends ago, April 3rd, I think was the deadline for some of these applications. The payroll protection program under the SBA, first come, first served, you have to apply through your banks and to get relief as long as you retained employees for a period of two months, it's forgiven. So those are very helpful to small businesses right now, but it also keeps people off of the unemployment roles and it stabilizes our economy, but also stabilizes families. And Hawaii has the highest reliance on small businesses, I think of any state. So to protect those small businesses, at least as a temporary measure, that was an important program. Our banks all jumped into it and really Hawaii got a really good participation. And I think when it's all said and done, I think it was reported at 1.6 billion that it's coming to small businesses now, and it's gonna grow because we're in the queue. And I have to commend all of our banks and financial institutions who are reaching out to their small business clients and others to get that money. Now nonprofits have had another opportunity, the funds are drying up, but again, Congress is still working on it. There's gonna be another CARES package in the works. So we have to kind of carefully watch where all the money is gonna be coming from and for how long. That how long part is imperative because once those funds are used, but the economy is not at full blast, what then? Right? Yeah, we're on our own. Right, so we have in the state 863 around it to $900 million in CARES relief money that has to be used by 1231. There's presently no ability to use it to fund budget shortfalls. And as you can see what government is facing, especially in Hawaii where we're so dependent on tourism, huge hit to our budget, right? We don't have a manufacturing or farming community. So if those monies could somehow help the community but also help fund government, then we would also keep more people in the economy productive and off unemployment. So we're waiting for the next iterations of what might be coming out of Congress so that we can do informed decisions on how to best use that money. I also say there's various other tranches of money that are coming directly into parts of our society, right? The airports are getting I think 130 million, DOE's getting big sound, UH, nutrition packages, SNAP benefits have been enhanced. So we're having to model all of those funds and to which uses they've been used or required to be used so that we don't use the CARES relief funds to overlap on those, right? So we're engaging people at budget and finance and other areas of government also on the outside to connect up so that we know where the money is and how do we best use the relief funds. Okay, so I think you've been talking about stabilization. Can you talk about recovery as a separate mission and resiliency? Right, so recovery, that involves kind of the next stage of reopening, right? So as you reopen, what are the needs? So clearly what this lockdown has emphasized, things that we've been talking about for a while, teleworking, telemedicine, teleeducation, you need robust broadband, you need it beyond the digital divide, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That is gonna become very important in the recovery phase. Fortunately, we have telemedicine in place where doctors' visits can be done like we're talking to each other right now. But there's gonna be more infrastructure needed, probably for all of that, to keep us safe, but to keep everything going. Recovery will also include, besides those aspects, what other kinds of new economic boosters might commit. So as we look at reopening, and as General Hara and his team looks at, what are the safeguards for reopening the airport, for example? What kind of money is needed for testing diagnostics, contact tracing, laboratory abilities within the states that we have fast results? And what are the different ways that we can do this to assure the public that if something happens, there's a way to address it. And that's all part of the recovery. It's gonna go on for months, until they're not predicting a vaccine for what, 18 months. So we're gonna be in recovery phase for a while. And resiliency, I assume resiliency is to make us better prepared in the future for a similar epidemic or pandemic, because this will happen again even after a vaccine is developed, no? Correct, I mean, we're tight. So this is where our geographic isolation may become a benefit. Can we become the safest place on earth if we have the right public health structure and we have the right policies and we have a very, very engaged population to protect health? Can we become that? Could that be our brand? But what is the carrying capacity for our tourism industry versus our culture and community? These are important questions that we have to address. And I'm sure there are compromises that can be reached, but I think all voices need to be at the table to come up with what does a resilient Hawaii look like? So this is a job that's gonna span a number of months, maybe way longer than 18 months. And it's gonna cover, in my observation of it, it's gonna cover really everything. It's gonna be, you know, our economy won't be the same. Our social structure won't be the same when we're done with this crisis. And so this is sort of a transition, a transformation of the state. It's building, essentially, I had to say it this way, but it's building a new state. And I guess from one point of view, it's enviable that you should be in this position from another point of view. It's a huge job, a huge burden. It's everything that we know and do, isn't it? Yeah, the good thing. And the reason I said yes to the governor when he asked, well, one, it is a crisis. And, you know, Jay, you and I, I mean, if you're in a crisis and somebody asks you to help, you say yes. On the other hand, as I move into it and understanding all of the stakeholders that have to be engaged, and all of the policies that will be, this is disruption. This is disruption in a huge way, right? And what we experienced at Hawaiian Electric with renewable energy, with solar, with whatever, that was disruptive. Every company, every organization is going through disruption. But this one is the whole state is being disrupted. The whole country, the whole world is being disrupted. So how do you deal with transformation in a disrupted culture? And I always say that what you've got to do is you've got to build trust. Because otherwise, everybody's off on their own. So you've got to bring people together. You have to, but it has to be based on fact, data, data, data, data, transparency, and sharing. That's got a rule. And you have factors, variables that are, you know, going to be pulling at you from different sides. I mean, on the one hand, you know, a lot of businesses, they've done, they're not going to come back. On the other hand, a lot of businesses, you know, are there, they're brittle and they may not be able to make changes so as to adapt. On the other hand, you have people, a lot of who have been cooped up in their homes and who are ready to scream already. I'm thinking of that painting by Edward Munch called Screams, you know the one. They're ready, they can't stand it anymore. You have the possibility of a recurrence and you have the possibility of, you know, strange abnormalities coming out of Washington and the world. You have the possibility the pandemic will fall back on the US. So all these things are going to be pulling at you. It's not only can you, you know, you have to focus on making the plan from the known variables. You have to focus on making the plan from variables that are going to be changing and undermining whatever you do. It's really a job. I always go back to the chain is only as strong as its weakest blink, right? So you can't always, as we do this, we have to focus on where the neediest areas and where the weaknesses may be. So the conversation about reopening and schools feeding as feeding areas. Childcare, right? When people are staying home, they're normal babysitters no longer have an income because their parents can care. What's the caring capacity for the childcare network? So I know Patch is working on it. There's other organizations, but we need to connect up to see that as you reopen, right? The childcare network is ready to reopen safely as well. And what are the rules around that now? Yeah, well, you know, a lot of this is communication, as you say, in order to build trust, you have to communicate. And I suggest that, you know, that's gonna be a big part of your job. Talk to people, give them that trust, give them reliability and confidence in the future because that will help to motivate them and get them on board to build recovery. And so you're gonna be in the media a lot. I think a lot of people are gonna know you, maybe even more people than before. How do you like that? So you're gonna watch me age before in real time? Yeah, well, you might even develop white hair, yeah. Or it might start falling out. Can't do anything about cutting it right now, so. You know, Alan, it's like, you know, I studied economics in college and my own, you know, look at this is a G-Wiz, you have an economy that is like stopped. And so you have to rebuild it almost from scratch. And the question, I'm sure you thought about this, the question is, where do you start? Do you start at restaurants? That doesn't sound right. Do you start at big companies, little companies, you start at service, you start at retail, or do you have to make a list of priorities or do you have everybody started once? I mean, the phases, the steps, the priorities are daunting. How do you see that now? So for all of that as well, right, Jay? So, you know, Spain, we started, they opened a few small restaurants and some, I think what we have to do is not to rewrite what others have done. And so for that, you know, we're gonna need help to get the best practices. This is rapidly developing in all parts of the world. So we don't commit errors that we don't have to commit as we do this. So that's part of it. I think that what this brings, however, is to the forefront is personal responsibility and personal accountability. So I think we've had time to stay at home and hopefully some of us have done some introspection about what is our role for the greater good and what can we give up for the greater good? So, you know, this whole thing about a carbon neutral state, well, if you look at the lack of rolling stock on our highways and fossil fuel burning vehicles, our air is cleaner, the whole world is cleaner as a result, I can just follow that. Is there a personal responsibility option there as we move forward, right, to our state policy? Fewer trips to the, you know, markets, shopping, whatever, our world has changed. And so I think we have to take stock of that as we talk about what is our new economy or the recent economy. Everybody's got to be different. Everybody has a personal role. Yeah, well, it's like Thomas Jefferson said, make yourself useful. And that's an important part of a democracy. And I think Hawaii is good at that. You know, the aloha spirit also means make yourself useful. We've got to inculcate, you've got to inculcate that or at least make it come out and everybody get on board about making themselves useful. We'll have a better recovery if people all participate that way. Jay, you're right. I've had tons of texts, emails, phone calls offering to volunteer. I mean, really, really great people saying, you know, let me help. I just don't have an organization to organize it. So that was today's call. We need maybe some of the volunteers to be part of the volunteer effort and we'll get it done. But it's a virtual organization right now. Denise is Sarah Matsubara is my deputy, but she's also holding down a full-time job at HHFDC. So we're cobbling together a group that can make this go. And I think we've done a really good job in the 10 days or whatever we've had, but we're gonna need a lot more to make it work. You have a budget. Do you have an office? Are you there on the fifth floor near the governor? How are you gonna organize the day-to-day work? Oh, I know, it's by Zoom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we try to eliminate as many face-to-face meetings even with social distancing, right? So there's a lot of Zoom meetings and whatever. I have a face-to-face social distance with the governor this afternoon, but, you know, I'm so thankful that Hawaiian Electric and HEI have allowed me to remain in place. Because there was no time to reorganize and move and all of that, as well as I'm getting my state cell phone today and my state laptop. So I'll have an eGov email address. And then we just stood up our page, our first page, opening page for our Hawaii economic recovery navigator.Hawaii.gov. It's recoverynavigator.Hawaii.gov. And it's just a basic page. It's being built, but it has an email capability so people can start reaching inward. When we get fully done, we want to have a dashboard of all sectors, all sector leads, what's going on in each sector as identified, needs, opportunities, funding opportunities, connecting them up to state laws or whatever. And then a resource center that all the good work that's going on by nonprofits, by business, whatever, healthcare can be deposited so everybody has access to all of that, as well as some technical things, like what is the latest on fast testing? What is the latest on what's happening in California, right? All of those things can be in the resource center. So it's got to be a pretty high functioning website. And this will be at the governor's office. So it strikes me that when you make the priorities and figure out which one comes first and how you allocate your time and resources to rebuilding retail, rebuilding restaurants, rebuilding service industry, you've got to be talking to everyone. It's like you were saying it's not just economic and social because the underpinning of economic is social. And we have to have public confidence. We have to have people have to feel good about participating. And so you've got to, of course, the website. And of course, I suppose hearing people's views, like Hawaiian Electric has done, you wanna ask them to participate in a town hall kind of process where you get their feelings. You get them to invest themselves, be part of the process. But it strikes me that you've got two levels. One is you got the mom and pop level, the ordinary citizen level. You want to hear from him. But the other is you've got to find leaders among these various sectors. And for example, you can't talk to every single nonprofit, but you want to talk to some, like for example, the Hawaii Alliance of Nonprofit Organizations, we've talked to her this week, Lisa Maruyama. Yes, and so because she can repeat your message, she can organize people in that community. So it's finding a way to reach everyone, isn't it? So almost day one, the phone call was to Norm Baker and Lisa Maruyama to start. And they had already organized many of the nonprofits. So they've come together. They've already provided a paper to us of how nonprofits see it, but they're gonna have to extend their reach, right? And then the Chamber of Commerce has subchapters all over the state and by ethnicity, et cetera. And sharing the Norm McNamara is fully involved as well because that's how we can reach out to some of the neighbor island business communities in a more effective way. So we're trying to parse out who are, for your, who are the leaders that can bring people together because we don't have time, nor can we with social distancing, convene a meeting, right? Yeah. We gotta bring people in in a different way by sectors and then connect up. That's right. Right, and do that in a transparent way so that people see what's happening. They see, you know, this recovery happening. So I know this is a hard question, Allen, but let me ask you this. How long is it gonna take for us to A, develop a meaningful plan, at least a putative plan? I mean, who knows with all these variables changing all the time? Well, you might have to change it over and over again, but how long will it take to develop a plan and get people, you know, participating in the plan? And how long do you think we'll take to implement the plan? And where does that fit against the 18 month, you know, period for vaccine and true comfort with a vaccine? Yeah, so all good questions. I mean, so right now in my 730 call with my small team, the emphasis is on making sure that we can help pull together General Hara and his task forces, the house task force, whatever, a reopening plan. From a public health standpoint and with all voices at that table, right? I mean, if we're gonna have some testing followed by contact tracing of various ways and we're gonna allow people back into the state, right? How do you protect the employees that are servicing those visitors? They have to have faith and trust that our system is taking care of our own. As companies who are now practicing great social distancing and teleworking bring people back into the workplace, you're not sitting next to somebody you haven't been sitting next to for several months. Can you feel confident that there enough public health measures in place in case something happens that you're covered and that the practices are good? So it's not only about visitors, it's how we interact with each other. So that's gotta be the highest priority right now before we can open up our economy and people have trust. They have trust. Yeah, well, I think one of the worries that you've touched on we really must discuss this before we close and that is tourism, tourism, the engine of our economy. Now, maybe after the transformation it may not be quite the same way, maybe not conducted the same way or the same percentage of the total state product, but for now it's a key factor in recovery I'm sure. And so the question is how do you play off the need to bring people back to work, get to hotels, work and get a huge infrastructure of tourism happening again and at the same time prevent us from reinfection by tourists who are gonna come, this is a hard problem by tourists who are gonna come to these shores potentially bringing virus with them. How do you do that? Well, I listened to I think Dr. Tim Brown from New Hero UH and then Dr. Bruce Anderson and Josh Green. I mean, there was a dialogue and one of the thoughts was that, you know, it was like, you know, remember when we had rabies controlled in Hawaii? So you have to certify before you brought a dog in it or you put them in quarantine. I liken it to that. One of the thoughts was before somebody gets on the plane to come to Hawaii, they have to pass a certification that they're COVID free, right? At point of, you know, a day before or whatever. Does that mean that they're COVID free? Maybe not, but at least it's a higher probability that they are and then you can rely on that allowing them in and then you have contact tracing as they come in. So these are the public health experts have to come up with those measures with some reasonable degree of confidence is not gonna be 100%. We don't have that much testing. We don't have the laboratory. We don't have the supplies. You know, we don't have the vaccine yet. So in the interim, there's gonna be some measure of risk taking, but you wanna minimize the risk for the greater good. So, but it's not only tourists, it's within the supermarket, right? Are we gonna be now going in two by twos, six feet apart? You know, now they all have the plexiglass shields at the register. That's a great practice. What other kinds of things are we gonna see coming out of this that becomes a new norm? Oh, so many things. You could make lists of all the things, all the relation, the mind map of what you need to do all day. I'm so happy that you have been appointed to this island. I think it was a great appointment. I think you're the perfect guy for it. I think it's critical to the future of the state. And I wanna place think tech at your disposal. I would be great if we could cover what you do and help you be transparent and we're here for you anytime you wanna come out and talk about the status of any of these things, stabilization, recovery, resiliency. We're here for you. I wanna be clear about that. Thank you so much, Jay. Thanks for all the good work think tech to us anytime. Thank you, Alan Oshima, helping our state recover. Thank you so much, Aloha. Thank you.