 This episode of the podcast is supported by Audible. You can download and listen to the world's best storytelling. I use it all the time to and from work. You can listen to audiobooks, original series and more on their free app. To get your free 30 day subscription, which includes a free book, click on the link in our show notes and enjoy. Hey folks, welcome to the podcast. Today I had an awesome chat with Bee Bakery who's a super cool soulful singer and we hear about how she went from a degree in pharmacy, doing busking and then starting to build a career in the music industry. Really cool conversation. Hope you enjoy it. Hey, it's Lewis. Welcome to the podcast. Enjoy our conversations anytime, anywhere. Cool, I'm alive. Bee, how you doing? I'm good, how's it going? Great, thank you very much for coming on. Pleasure, thanks for having me. So the story of how we met is quite random. So I was with my colleague Adi Eila and we were at this Ruby hotel launch in London. Yeah. He said, you've got to go up into room number like 102 or something. Something like that. So me and Adi Eila like wandered up and then just walked into this random hotel room and then you were there and you start singing and some guy was playing the guitar. That's the most bizarre thing. Random. My first gig in a bedroom, that's for sure. It was good. Yeah, it was good fun. Yeah, yeah. It's a great story to tell people. They're always like. It was an amazing story. And then like you were at school with Adi Eila's siblings. Yeah. So where did you grew up in Nigeria? I did, yeah, I did. I grew up in Nigeria and then kind of came here for like some part of school and then uni and then. Yeah, awesome. So where abouts did you like grow up? In Nigeria, I grew up in Lagos which is probably the most popular city in Nigeria that most people know about. It's super busy. It's overpopulated, but it's rich. It's so rich in culture and food and heat. A lot of heat. It's really hot. More people than London. Oh, like ridiculously more. I don't know the exact numbers, but like Lagos is on the top five. I think it still is top five most populated cities in the world. Wow. That economy is like growing crazy. Do you go back much? Well, when I first moved here, actually, I didn't visit much at all. I think it was like eight years or something before I went back. Right. But like the last few years, I've been back a few times. Yeah. I still got family there, so it's nice. I'd love to go there. My mum's from South Africa. Yeah. So my grandma lives there. So I'm like going to Africa quite a bit because she's 98. So we go like once a year just in case. So yeah. So that's mostly my Africa trips. Oh, yeah. Lagos is amazing. I'd like to go. I should say. It's definitely an experience like this. I mean, I've not traveled the whole world, but I don't think there's anywhere like Lagos. It's just unique in every way. It's definitely an experience to encounter. I'd like to. And then so you grew up listening to African music then, presumably, or? Actually, no. No. Actually, not so much. No. I mean, like, you know, some bits and bobs because it was part of the culture, but like in terms of personal preference and stuff, not really. It's funny. I was telling someone this the other day, right? So generally, when people ask me, when they hear me sing and then they ask me, oh, so who are your influences and like your inspiration and stuff? That was my next question. That was like your next question. Well, I always kind of default to, and it is correct. I always default to like, you know, like Lauryn Hill, Indio Ari, Tracy Chapman. You can hear those influences in my music. But I was saying to someone literally the other day, like the actual truth about what I really, really was like so like hardcore into growing up was actually Celine Dion and Westlife. Like, that was my jam. Like looking in the mirror and just like trying to hit Celine Dion's notes, like that literally, that's, she is responsible for me being a musician. She's on fire. I actually went to her concert in Hyde Park this summer. Did you? Oh, I'm so jealous. Yeah, my wife loves Celine Dion. Serial. Yeah. She looks great for her age. I know. Crazy. I'm like, what are you, what are you? What are your tips, Celine Dion? Let me know. I don't know, like 50, 55. I'm going to get completely wrong. I actually don't know how, but like, she's timeless. That's how she is. She was on fire. And like also takes a lot of fitness to do a proper concert like that. Like all the time. And she's still got it. I just love that. Like that's just inspiring for me. Like I want to still be like, you know, selling out concerts when I'm her age. Definitely. And still hitting those notes. The fault, Leslie. Her voice is great. So she can't, she's so, you were telling me before. So no milk, no dairy. Oh yeah. Yeah. Amongst other things, but yes. Yeah. Definitely no dairy or milk or whatever before you perform on stage. Which I'm sure Celine, you know. She knows all this. She knows all this. She's, yeah. So that was what you said. She wanted to be like Celine Dion. That was your like. Yeah, absolutely. Like she, it was just like her vocals. I was just, I think her vocals was just the thing that I've been in love with. I just never heard anyone sing like her. And yeah. She was my, one of my first true music loves. Wow. What about Westlife? It was an age thing and like the boy band thing. They're not, they're not together anymore. I don't think so. No, no. They didn't have that. They did do well though. They did incredibly well. Yeah. Amazingly well. Did you always want to do music professionally then? Or like how did? No. No, so you came to UK, schooled and all that stuff, listening to Celine. Yeah. And like Dating on Westlife and all that stuff. Yeah. And there. It had its place. So like when did it come up that you were like actually I quite want to do this like professionally. I studied something else at uni. I actually studied pharmacy. I never considered music as something that I would ever do professionally or as a career. I wasn't really brought up that way to be honest. It was slowly over time, but it did get to a point where I guess I wasn't very happy with my life at the time and wasn't very happy with I guess the kind of future that I was envisioning with where I was at that point. And at the same time, it just kind of kept repeating on me just because there'd be more to this like talent because I'd been singing since I was a child, writing songs since I was a child, but it was never more than that. So I got to the point where I was like, could it be more? So I would do stuff like I went busking on the street and then just started to get like really cool feedback. Amazing. And then it evolved into basically moving to London and just like throwing myself into the music industry and seeing how it went. So where were you busking? So this is Wileywick University. No, this is just after uni. So this is, this was in Bath actually. In Bath, yeah. In Bath and Bristol. So you went to uni there? Yeah, I went to uni in Bath. Yeah. Yeah, I did. Yeah. What was it like busking and you've done it before? I'd never done it before. No, that was my first time. But yeah, it's really scary. But like after you've done the first couple of songs and I guess I've always had really nice feedback from people that kind of keeps you going. Yeah. The buskers on the north and bank station now they take card. It can be really lucrative to be honest, especially in London because there's just so many people like we were saying earlier, like it's just so populated. It's crazy. You get the traffic and people. And people do. People do. People are very generous in this city so. Yeah, but nowadays not many people have change or cash. So you've got to get a card. But it is for some of these people though it is literally their living. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like they need to be on it. Yeah, 100%, 100%. And so you loved it so much that you thought actually I want to do this properly. Yeah. So then what was the like the next step? Like how did you? The music experience that I had was like growing up singing in choir, singing at church. Like that's where I learned how to sing really. Even though I'd never went to music school that was like my training ground. But never really like in the actual professional music industry. So I started from the bottom. I started off on the open mic scene really. In the first year that I was in London I did 300 gigs or something. 300. Yeah, there were like 300. I will say the context of this also is when I first was to London I was terrified to leave the house to go sing anything. So I think I was just scared that I just wasn't really good enough. London can be a little bit scary when you first get here. And you'd never lived in London before. And I'd never lived in London before. I love it now. Actually what I did was I set up a meet-up group for London to sing and songwriters which is actually really growing now which is really cool. But it was one of the first things I did just to like meet other musicians because I thought okay this is a good first step. I did that and then from then when I eventually found my confidence I just I guess just hit the ground running. Amazing. 300 in a year. Every night. Wow, way to like favorite spot. My favorite open mic spot. Oh I'm still out of the open mic game now. I don't remember what my favorite open mic was but they were showcases where I guess it's like the next step up so the lineup tends to be, you know, approved by someone. As you get asked to like come into your, come and, yeah. Yes, but it's not really like a professional gig. It's still just- So they're not paid. No, they're not paid. It's just like promotion and stuff. That's exactly right, yeah. So there was a really cool one which is sadly stopped now that was in Kennzel. Yeah, Kennzel Rise. Kennzel Rise, yeah. Paradise? Paradise by where I've come to- I've had my birthday there. Wow, for real? Oh, it's really cool. They used to have an amazing- Yeah, it's a nice upstairs and downstairs. Yeah. Yeah, it's really nice there actually. Yeah, so it's cool. It's a cool spot. It is. I used to live in Camden and lots of artists start there. Oh yeah, this loads happening in Camden. Like it's awesome though. Don't really gig there as much now but I definitely did when I was starting out, yeah. So is that the way to start? So you do like a little busking and then you do all the other mics. I mean, that's how I started. That's how you started. But you'll find everyone's different story, yeah. I needed to because like I say, I had no experience, so I had to learn on the job, so. Yeah, it's good just to like experience it, right? Like different crowds, different feedback. Yeah, absolutely. And do you write all of your own music? I do, yeah. Everything yourself, nice. Everything myself, yeah. On my recent upcoming album, I collaborate with a producer. Which is called Ben's Out. It's out on the 6th of March. Cool. Spotify and iTunes and everything. Awesome, we'll do the little links at the bottom of the show, Nick. But on that album, it's actually the first kind of more collaborative album that I've ever done. So it's got, yeah, it's nice when you work with other people but I do write everything myself. But they wrote the music. They play the instruments and stuff. Amazing. Do you play instruments? I do, I play guitar. Oh yeah, you probably, depending on when you watch into the hotel room. You were singing and there was a guy there who was playing. That's right, but I did play guitar some of it. He is my guitarist, yeah. But yeah, so yeah, I play guitar. I had to teach myself to be able to busk and stuff. Actually, you've never, you only learned recently then. I mean, well. When you started busking. When I started busking, yeah. Yeah, crazy. And you've never played an instrument before that? I did pick up the keyboard. I'm not good at playing keys. I have no idea what actually happened. I definitely played it live in front of people at some point, but looking back at videos and stuff, I'm like, how were these people clapping? That was awful. So I can't play keys on the record, but I play guitar, yeah. Cool, and so when you're doing the albums, you've got like musicians in. Yeah. You sing with other people as well or? Vocals-wise is just me. There are a couple of bits where they're like, there's something called gang vocals where you have like just like a bunch of people doing like some like backing vocals. So you get this kind of big sound, like choir-y kind of sound, but apart from that is all me. Amazing. Is that your first time you've done like kind of collab album? Yeah, in that sort of format. Yeah, I've always worked with like producers, but it's kind of been more like, okay, this is like 100% my vision, the da. But for this album, it definitely was more kind of, okay, here's your input. Oh, you think we can tweak that bit? Okay, let's tweak that bit. Oh, it sounds so much better. And yeah. Cool. So how do you get gigging to actually making it a career, doing albums, getting on Spotify, like doing gigs, making money, all of that kind of stuff? Yeah. Okay, so you know what I said before? Everyone's got a different like story, every musician. So mine is different because my music career is not just gigging. So interestingly, because of the unique experience that I had when I first started, which was setting up a meetup group and like going on the live music scene, I had a lot of bad experiences because I didn't make informed decisions. I was just going everywhere and anywhere, but it also meant that I learned a lot. And now I actually have a live music promotions company. Called Soul Strip Sessions. Yeah, so that's, I guess my unique path is, I have like my gigging like B-Baccarat music career, but I also have the Slide Music Promotion Company, which definitely helps with income and like making money for music. Yeah, indeed. So what do you do with it, exactly? I'm a female entrepreneur. So what does it do exactly? So you're organizing and promoting live music events? That's right, yeah. So yeah, we do. So we work with like different live music venues in London, Bristol, Brighton. We've got the first show in Birmingham in junior, which is really cool. Where in Birmingham? It's at the Heron Hounds. Okay. I was at university in Birmingham for like four years. Oh, did you ever go? Brilliant. I went to the Custard Factory, if you may. I don't know in Birmingham, it's the Birmingham scene. Oh, okay, fine. Yeah, it's great Birmingham. Yeah. Second biggest city in England. Yeah. Very cool. I've done one gig there, but I don't know it well enough. Yeah, no, it's good. That's really cool. So when did you set that up? Just... Actually, we've got the third anniversary coming up in March. So three years ago. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. How did you come up with the idea and... It's quite niche. So as a soulful female artist, I kind of just found that like, so some of my bad experiences were like, you know, sexual harassment and you know, performing at gigs where like it wasn't really well promoted because you know, there was no one there or the people that were there weren't really music lovers. So they just chatted through the whole thing, which kind of affects a musician. When you're on the stage bearing your soul and people are just like chatting you out. Sometimes you can't even hear yourself. Like it's that loud. Yeah. And it's not safe like for women and... I'm not saying that that's... I'm not speaking broadly, I'm talking about just my experience, but it's definitely not an isolated experience. But all of these, you know, experiences led to, you know what? I really think that live music could be done better. And then I met like some other female artists along the way as well, who fit like, you know, the niche sound of the music and kind of just put it out to them. Like how would you guys feel about this idea? Like having a listening audience, you know, making sure like the audiences come because they know that it's music that they're gonna love. So the night is specifically advertised to say, you know, we are supporting women in music. We are supporting soulful music. If you like soulful music, if you're, you know, if you like artists like Lauryn Hill, India Ari, Corin Bailey Ray, Leana Havas, you know, if you're into these sorts of artists, Jill Scott, there's so many to name, then you will be like really into this night. And people come because they love that music and they want to be there. The artists have a great time because, you know, the audience cares about their music. They're listening and it's just, yeah, happy days all around. So it does, it actually does really well because it's kind of grown into even more than that. It's become like a just community of people that just love what the night stands for. Yeah, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. And where was your first one? It was, yeah, it was at Saint-Lenoise. So there's a French restaurant called Les Gargots in Soho. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been before? No, no, but I know what you mean. Yeah. And in there, you did your first. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, it's really cool. And how many people did you get for your first one? So it's quite an interesting, I mean, all the gigs tend to be intimate, though we've done bigger venues now. It's nice, but soulful music's nice to be intimate. Yeah, absolutely. And it's about getting close to the music, you know, and like the writing behind it and like artists can tell their stories and stuff. They're like the scene to you. Yeah, exactly. You know, they look at you and you have the scene to me. Yeah. And then it's really, really nice. Yeah, it's like, you make a connection. It's very special. The first show was 65 cap and we sold out. We were turning people away at the door. And it's sold out ever since, to be honest. That's really cool. And do you have the same group of singers that? No. Which always mix it up? Always mix it up. We've got some that come back, you know, which is good for them as well and good for us. But yeah, it's always different. So we have four artists every show. So there's always just like, cause that's the thing as well. It's about having like an eclectic lineup as well, even within that unique niche genre. So there's like different styles and like people, yeah, come expecting like different things. So we can mix it up with like having people back and yeah. Nice. And then when did you start doing it in different cities? So the first one we did was in Brighton, actually because one of the sort of super fans of the show, was like, you've got to come to a show in Brighton and you know, he was chatting one of the venues and it just worked out perfectly. So we did our first show at Comedia in Brighton, not last year, but the year before last. Then we did another one last year and then we're doing two this year. So we're kind of doing, yeah. Brighton's quite cool, trendy, like the music. Yeah. Our fans in Brighton just are so into it because there's nothing like that in Brighton. Yeah. Like especially in the like soul music scene. Yeah. That's pretty niche, yeah. Do you sing as well in that? I do perform as well, yeah. So I host the show, so it's got this like, probably maybe kind of slight like cabaret, you meet to like music thing. Cause like, you know, I wear an amazing outfit and I throw my arms around, I don't know. Introduce them. Introduce them. Yeah, it's just good vibes. Awesome. And as well as that, you're obviously trying, you're doing pursuing your solo music career. Yeah. So you're doing two at the same time, which is cool. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's a lot of work. Yeah, yeah. It's a lot of work, but yeah, it's good fun. It's nothing like I thought I would be doing, which is just crazy. What did you think you did? I don't even really know. Selling drugs in a pharmacy. Well, that was definitely one option. Just to clarify, I'm not kidding. I did chemistry university. Oh, how did you end up here? My story is like chemistry uni for four years in Birmingham. And then my last year was in the lab on my own with my headphones on, modeling liquid crystals. And I wanted more human contact. I wanted to actually speak to people. I know I'm spatey and I need some modeling and stuff. So I didn't think science was in a career for me. I was really like the back of the new scientists and there were like some drug dealers looking to high chemists to make drugs and stuff, but it wasn't really for me. That was like a real thing? Yeah, kind of a real thing. What? A semi-real thing. I could have gone to a drugs company, like a pharmacy to a company to make drugs. People can advertise for people to make drugs for them? Yeah, like a big pharmaceutical company. Like chemists essentially like in the lab who are like making pharmaceuticals drugs. Oh, I see. Illegal drugs. Illegal drugs. I was thinking, I don't know why I interpreted that as illegal drugs. I do not know why. I could have also made illegal drugs, obviously. Like I could have gone to like... Well done for staying on this side. I stayed in the straight and narrow. But that wasn't a career option I wanted to follow. So after uni, I set up a fashion distribution company. That was my first thing after uni. Okay. So my cousin, James, he is a ladies wear designer. Okay. So from about 13 years old, I was packing boxes. I was helping them sell clothes to women. I was going round the shows, helping them sell. And every summer from uni, I was like working, selling clothes and stuff. Right. I got this like kind of entrepreneurial sales, fashion thing. Like the day I finished uni, I was like, I don't want to be, I don't want to go into like a career. Like my family are Jewish and most Jewish families are like, you know, be an accountant, be a doctor, be a lawyer, be a professional. All too familiar to me, Louis. Probably the same with your family as well. I was like, I know I was that man, I really wanted to do it. So another cousin of mine, he was a bit same age as me and Italian guy. Yeah. And he was like, man, Italian, young Italians love British streetwear. Okay. Italians are great for like high fashion and tailoring and stuff, right? Yeah. But like young Italian guys and girls, they love like streetwear and like t-shirts, jeans, like feety stuff. Yeah. And Britain's great for that. Yeah. So I found a couple of brands in the UK. And then I signed them up and then we sold jeans and t-shirts in Milan. Wow. It was really fun. I did that for a couple of years and then I met a factory owner in Turkey as you do. And he asked me to run his sales office in the UK. And I really wanted to work like at the start of the fashion chain. So like, how are clothes made, produce them in factories and all that stuff. So I did that and we used to make for like all the high street shops like Ted Baker, Debenhams, Arcadia Group, all of that stuff. Okay. And we were making thousands of t-shirts and jeans and jumpers and everything in the factories in Turkey. And it was a really fun part of my life to get to fashion shows and stuff like that. That sounds really cool. Yeah, it was good. But then I got to a point where I was like, I want to do my own thing properly. So I was planning this distribution company and a friend of mine was in recruitment. Okay. And he was like, you should look at the recruitment sector. And I was like, how come? It's like, well, the sales process is really interesting. Like I was selling t-shirts and the t-shirts can't refuse to be sold. In the recruitment industry, you have like people on either side. You have a client, you have a candidate, they're people. They all have their different wants, needs, desires, like, you know, values, where they feel they fit in the world, all of those things. So it's quite interesting sales process. Right. And so I spoke to a few companies and I really liked a small firm I met. It's about eight people. And joined there. It was in a city of London. And I stayed there for five years. And then I was like, I want to do my own business and happen to be in the recruitment sector. And you tend to start a business to something you think you're good at. And then you find out later whether you're actually good or not. And I kicked off and that was 10 years ago. Wow. So I'm coming up to end of March as end of year 10. And that's my weird journey from chemistry to... That is just so bizarre. There's me thinking going from a pharmacist to being a musician is like, turns out it's not really that... No, everyone's got their own story. And it's also that when you're growing up, if you do school and uni and stuff, you always talk like, this is your path. You know, you do your GCSEs. Tell me about it. You go into your A-levels. Go and get a nice degree. Then you get a nice job. You become a pharmacist and then... Directly, really, to a degree. Whereas, yeah, the world's not like that. In the real world, in the real world, it's cool to try a lot of different things. It is. You know, sometimes it takes people a while. But it took me a while to find what I really enjoy, which is like human contact, conversation and podcasting I really enjoy as well as the recruitment industry. And yeah, if you're lucky enough to find it, then we'll understand what you enjoy. Then you can find a job that suits you. Yeah, I think it's so interesting because I was literally having this exact conversation with a group of music friends of mine, because even just within the music industry itself, it takes a few years, like when we speak to other people, because I still feel like I'm new in it. I've only really been properly in it for like four and a half years or something. And you know, with anything, that's really still quite early. Like probably I'm gonna keep on evolving and figuring out what it is I actually love the most and probably where I'm gonna end up in a few years. If we were having this chat again in a few years, I'd probably be like, so few years ago, I was doing this and I was in London and having this thing and whatever. But yeah, it's so crazy who knows. But I think that's so exciting. I just feel like, gosh, I don't even know yet where I'm gonna end up. The thing is a lot of young people there, it worries them that they feel that they should know what they wanna do right now. And then the other thing to your point is like patience. So if you start something, like you've gotta give it time. So in the recruitment, I'm like, this is my 15th year or so. And you go through this big transition of like more experience, you know, lots of stuff on your belt. And now we do, we sent rehire board members and senior leaders for different companies. But to get there, it takes time to build up experience. So many people that they try something for not quite long enough. They get impatient and then they give up. It's so true. Yeah. They just give up. And it's like most people don't quite make it because they give up too early. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it needs time. And something that I've personally learned in my journey is like you really can't rush that as well because I'd say like my personality is I like to be in control. I like to know exactly what's going to happen in a few months time. I can't handle that mystery. Like I need to know like, okay, this is my goal and like this is exactly where I'm gonna be. And this is how it's gonna play out. But I'm learning that things don't always play out exactly the way you think that they are. Never. It's like, you know, if you like draw a line like an arrow, straight arrow. People think like success is like, draw a straight arrow and it's just gonna be easy. But it's really, it's more like a squiggly line. It's like things don't work. So you learn from it. It's just, you know. Yeah, you evolve. Yeah, you just evolve, you think. So you've got to enjoy like, yeah. And you've got to enjoy the process. Yeah. Because that's basically what it is. It's just this like journey process of like doing things. And then yeah, you just evolve and do different things. Yeah. It's good fun. It is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely something that I'm personally learning at the moment. It's so true. I wish someone had told me this like years ago. I would have just taken the pressure off. I would have just known, you know what? It's actually fine. Like some stuff might not work out and that's okay. But it's because that's the learning process, you know? And you know, as long as you keep on moving on, you learn from it, you know, and you take that and then you, you know, stop and like re-evaluate everything. Then you make some decisions and then you do that. And then it's all just, as long as you're going in an awkward trajectory. Yeah. But whoever posts on Instagram about their failures. No, no one does. Like, no. Everyone just, yeah. It's like, hey, look at me. I've done like this really cool concert or look at me. I've got a great album out or look at me. I've got another great thing I'm doing. But then all of the stuff in between is made you get to those like cool moments. Absolutely. But no one ever. No. You're looking at the thing, oh wow, she's doing so great. Yeah. It must be so easy. Yeah. Whereas in reality, it's like grinding. Oh yeah. Completely. It's like hustling, hustling, grinding and then you get some success and then you build from that. And that's what really, that's what it's really like. Yeah. Yeah. But no one, no one teaches you that. No. Like it's, it's crazy. Yeah. Like literally a friend of mine was saying to me, like I was telling her, you know, some of the details of, you know, basically all the stuff we talked about. And she was like, oh my gosh, because she follows me on like social, on Instagram. And she was like, I would just never have had a clue. It just looks like everything's going so well for you. It just looks like everything's so perfect and it just like falls in line for you. You know? And I'm like, yeah, no. No sis. And that wouldn't be me, but if you don't tell anyone how they met. That's true. I do try to be like quite open about stuff on like my Instagram. Not all the time. Cause also you don't, you know, it's, it's, it's not me. Like you're not like my therapy. So I'm not going to, you know, give you everything, but I think once in a while it's good for all of us speaking of social media just to be a little bit more vulnerable so that people understand that they're not alone and that hustle is like all around. You know? I think we just help all of us just relax a little bit. 100% cause everyone gets like, you know, like anxious or stressed about like this kind of stuff. But when it speaks to people, everyone's going through this that kind of same thing. But very few people want to just say like, actually it's really tough. Yeah. They don't want to be like, you know, but if they, if you do do that, I bet the other person's probably be like, oh my God, I've had the same experience. And then suddenly it's like, ah, you know, other people going through it. Yeah. Like no shortcut. Yeah. I just set up a group with a friend of mine cause we had so many of these conversations over the last few years. And we thought, you know what? We should set up a group that's like therapy specifically for like, you know, musicians. So I think this should be something that every industry does, every people, people who know each other. But we set up a group that's like a therapy. So the purpose of it is to get people together. Just have the first meeting actually, get people together solely for having moments where you're like, oh my gosh, me too. Not to talk about our success. It's not like, you know, like networking where it's like, oh yeah, what can I get from you? What can you get from me? This is literally just like, you know, the struggles. Like let's talk about each other's struggles and you know, let's help each other understand. And if there's an opportunity to help each other, then yeah, but it's really more about just, especially like, because it does affect like, speaking of like mental health, it massively affects people's mental health. So that's something that we're kind of, yeah, starting up in the first meeting went really well. I just think everyone should do that more often with each other. 100%. When I set up my business, a few friends set up their own business too. And so when I set up my business, it was just me. And so every, often like, at least once a week, but often more, we'd call each other up and be like, hey man, how was your week? Like what was going on? And you'd be like, yeah, this deal fell through. You know, I'm like, can I get in the next one? Cause when you have it down, the next thing's gonna be not right. So it's all like how you think about it. We've had some success. Then you can like share it with your mate. Yeah, I've like made a deal. So it's really good to always great. It's been great to have people like that to speak to. Cause you can get quite lonely when you're on your own. Yeah, that's true. I thought just crossed my mind actually, cause I'm actually looking at setting up a podcast and I'm thinking, hey, you did that. You can easily do it. What's like a good, I don't know, what's your like advice with setting up a podcast? Setting up a podcast and just like pushing through cause I'm sure there's gonna be like hurdles. There's so few hurdles, but really? Well, I do it. It's so easy to set up a podcast. So like the cost of setting up a podcast is almost nothing. So when I first set up, I just use my phone and a lapel mic, which costs me 40 pounds. And then I just press play. And then I had, there was a dual lapel mic. So my guests would have one. I had one. And if you listen to the early podcasts that were on two lapel mics and it costs nothing. And they came to sat on the couch or whatever. And we just chat. And then to get it out to the world, you find a hosting platform. I use SoundCloud and then it whacks it out to everywhere. It doesn't cost you anything. And then you can submit your link to Spotify, costs you nothing. So you can basically set up a podcast and set give out to the world for like almost nothing. But the biggest thing is like the consistency. Cause like if I listen to your podcast and I really love it and you don't do another one for a month or you're doing it like once every, you play it out a little bit, but you can't really, then it gets a bit, but if you're doing it regularly and I'm subscribed, I'm gonna listen every week to your podcast and so you can start it really easily. But then you gotta stick with it. It's like everything really. Yeah, it's great. Last question is who, apart from Celine Dion, would you love to do a collaboration with? So my answer to this has not changed in a long time and it's still Emily Sande. And I would say it's just mainly because when I listen to her music, it literally, I feel like, I can't explain it, it just feels like, sounds a bit nutsy, but I feel like we're connected. I know that sounds really, Emily Sande, I'm not a crazy stalker. I just know, I just feel like it's her writing. I just feel like the way she writes, the stuff she writes about her creative style just feels very kind of like akin to mine, I guess just feels like, I feel like we're like music soulmates in a way. So I feel like if we get into the studio and like to like write a song together or even on stage to perform, whatever, we are set over anything, Emily. Have you asked her yet? I've never asked her. You've asked her. I have met her before, but we didn't really get the time to talk about, hey Emily, would you like to, but yeah, next time, the second time, I will just, she probably would not give me her number, Lewis, it does not work like that. Yeah. But yeah, no, she's my like number one. It would be, it would be amazing. It would be fun. Cool. And how can we find out like what you're up to and when the music's coming out and stuff? Yeah, so you can follow me on any of the socials at bbacare, which is at b-e-e, b-a-k-a-r-e, across everything. And you can come to one of my shows. I'm actually embarking on my first ever headline tour with my band. Oh, sweet. This is really good fun. Nice. Yes. A bit of a dream come true. So I've got four dates in the UK. In the UK? Why are you going international? Yeah, the shows I'm doing outside the UK aren't with my band. Some with my guitar, some me just solo, but the ones in the UK are all with band. So that's I guess like an extra special thing. But yeah, it kicks off, the first date kicks off in Brighton actually. And then I've got one in London on the 17th of March, which is like the official kind of album launch party as well. Bells and whistles are going to be out. It's at the Lexington. Nice. Yeah, which is near Angel. Amazing. Yeah. So that 17th of March, come. It's going to be a vibe. We'll come, definitely, definitely. That's really cool. Yeah. And then where internationally are you going? So I've done a few gigs like in Germany and in Madrid, especially in Spain, over sort of the last couple of years. So I'm going to be back in Germany in April, doing a few shows there. And then I'm going to do some shows in Madrid in May. And I think I'm back in Germany again in May. And then I've got the tour in the Czech Republic at the end of the year, and possibly Brazil, but that's kind of TBA. Brazil, nice. Which is super dreamy, because I've actually never been to Brazil. You do for the carnival. I know that would be. I don't think it's probably, oh, actually I don't know, actually, when the carnival season is. There is some carnival stuff happening at them. But then Brazil's massive, I don't know. That'll be fun. But yeah, we'll be fun. Awesome. Cool. Great to speak to you. Yeah, you too. Thanks for having me. And good luck. Cool. Thank you. Hey, folks, thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe in all the usual places.