 All right, so we are here and I will call the meeting to order and we have six appeals for a set for tonight and I was thinking of taking them in reverse order from what they're listed to get things going officially. So Gerald D. Denison, there she is. Ms. Denison, hello, can you hear me? Okay, Ms. Denison, can you hear me? And we can't hear you yet. Yeah. Okay, try saying something again. Can you hear me? A little louder, a little more. Okay. Yes, thank you. Sorry. Can we move the speaker like onto the table? Okay. You can get a chair. That would help. Okay, Ms. Denison, we'll get started. I'm Jack McCullough. I'm the chair of the Board of Abatement and we're going to start with you and I'm going to start by having you raise your right hand. Do you solemnly affirm subject to the pains and penalties of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you. Great, thank you. Now, we have a couple of remote introductions. Yes, we have a couple of remote introductions. So, Sal, would you introduce yourself? Sal Alfano, District 2 Council member. Thank you. And who's the S? That's Sarah Carter. Okay. Great, Sarah. Thanks. Okay. So, Ms. Denison, we have your filing and we have your statement about why you are requesting an abatement. So, would you go ahead and tell us what your grounds are for requesting an abatement of your taxes? Well, I didn't find income level, but that's not something, it's my ability to afford it based on my income. I think that normally I qualify for a private tax with a state of, as you know, what my knowledge would be afraid and it would increase like a huge amount. And the state may determine what private tax credit I would get because I take that into consideration. They put my whole property back and determine what my private tax credit would be. And so my private tax bill is from, it's all doubled. It went from $495.00 a quarter to $904.00 a quarter. And my income, I mean, that kind of spent to pay the first due to the court, then all my savings, the pay for that. And I know I guess the law doesn't allow for people that are really afraid to consider a person's income level, but I'm just asking if you would consider my income level and to challenge my private tax. Okay, thank you. Now, based on your exhibit that you filed, and I'll rule all the exhibits you filed are received in evidence, you were reporting for 2022 household income of $44,569.00. Do you know what your 2023 income was? I don't yet. I did get a pay raise in July. So I'm, I think, yes, it might be around $50,000. But I haven't gotten my, you know, W-2 or any like tax documents yet. Okay. Now you noted in your statement that your home was also damaged in the flood. And could you tell us what the damage was? Well, I had three to four feet of water in my basement. So my boiler, and I, I had a lot of the laundry and things like that. My boiler and my hot water heater, they were able to be repaired fortunately. My washer and dryer, I had door lights, and it was a space like, you know, the humidifier, space heaters, and things like that, small appliances that I had. It's not so bad that they were in the flood. So we had a lot of therapy on the area. But yeah, and then, you know, just, I did do some mitigation, but to help prevent the global warming that doesn't happen yet. And again, and soon, but I did do some precarious mitigation repair in my apartment. So we were replying so that, so we wouldn't tell them in my basement, they're over the back of, you know, quite have that thumb mitigation repair. I didn't do some thumbs. I don't, I don't, if that's not the way I can deal with right now. And I was like, well, I think it's better, I'm sure that it's the way after a place like boiler, but I don't know yet. Yeah. And none of the water flooded your, the first floor or upper floor, of the building. Good. Any other members have any questions for the taxpayer? Can you repeat what the damage was? I lost my freezer. I lost my washing machine and dryer, but my boiler and my hot water theater were able to be repaired. So fortunately I did not have to replace those. I was told by the insurance company that I need to replace my boiler for them to ensure me, but I don't know what, if you deal with that right now, I do have home insurance. But I'm dealing with some of that. And the repairs and if you have a future. Did you catch that, Bob? No, maybe agree. And do you know the total cost of the damage to your home that you've made out of pocket? Well, I don't know. I think it's something, I mean, I got, well, I don't know, $4,000 something. So I don't know for sure how much I need more, I think. Maybe a few thousand. Because I have to do some plumbing work. And I do replace a lot of things. Right. Okay. I'm going to repeat what I think you said. And I'll ask you to tell me if you think I've gotten it right, because there are people here who are having difficulty hearing what you've said. So what I think you said was that there was damage to both your boiler and your water heater, but they were able to be replaced. Your washer or your dryer and your freezer were damaged and were not able to be replaced, repaired. And there is a variety of other items of personal properties, small appliances and stuff like that, that were also lost and not able to be repaired. Is that about accurate? That is, yes. And you think you got about $4,000 from FEMA? You had to do some plumbing work and that on top of what you got from FEMA, you're probably out a few thousand dollars? Yes, they are. Okay. Okay. Anyone else have any questions? Kim? No. Do you have a sense of what your total loss was? Yes. Yeah, I did all of them. I did not calculate that. I don't know. I don't know. I did not do that calculation. Okay. Donna, you had a question. Could she calculate it and send it to us later? Well, we can hold it open. Do you have the ability to add up all your losses and send them to us? Okay. I can't, you know, have not replaced. It's just, I can be using my own, I think, look through some of the bills like that. I guess I can. I mean, but I don't have to say receipts. Because some of the stuff was just thrown away. You know, I did not replace them. They were in the small appliances. I think I would have to go back and find the receipts and If you had a couple of weeks to do that, could you do that? Yeah. So do I actually have a receipt for it? Or do I have to find all the receipts and Even if you don't have receipts, if you have a statement that you would testify is the accurate statement of the amount of your out-of-pocket losses, we would accept that. Tim. Great question for clarification. We're talking about personal property and others. So it's not fair to ever calculate property, is it? We're really, we're really interested in property to your structure, your damage to your structure, not your personal property. So I don't know that to the structure, I'm not aware, I never had access to our personal determine. So I need to be able to Okay. So, you know, it's like washer, dryer, no, it's personal property. It's not my structure. Right. Okay. Bob, Mark, Kim, Bob. When were the repairs made? Not to washer and dryer, but say the heating system. When were the repairs to the heating system made? It was pretty quick. We've been, well, maybe about a month. Okay. I had a wonderful repair person came and fixed my boiler and my hot water heater. Come. Okay. I mean, I'm not part of the board, but I don't know if I can say anything. Sir. Okay. Okay. We won't take anything from you. Sorry about that. I didn't didn't recognize who you were. Kim. I didn't hear if there was this year's income. Her estimate was 50,000 for 2023. Is it a rental property here? Is this, is there any rental properties that's your home? It's my home. Okay. Okay. So she's not asking for a baby to the income, I guess. Right. Well, she's based on inability to pay as in the statutory criterion of inability to pay. Tim. So it seems like we've only had one other meeting, but a similar issue. Last time when it looks like the question is because the pre-bate that she got was based on last year and then the new assessments came out. This is the same thing. Yeah. So it would seem like a similar resolution would be fair. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Well, Shirley, you had your hand up. I was only saying that's what I thought she was asking for. Because of her income, she's not able to pay the tax because it went out. But I just, when I noted that her complaint also had to do with damage, I wanted to rate flood damage, I wanted to raise that. Donna, did you have something? She's given us two tax bills. And one that's for this year actually has the new assessment on it, the one for 2324, and there's, she's allowed the $3,072 state payment. And then, so it's about the same payment. And last time, her appraisal for 2022-23 was the 175. So I'm confused about her saying they didn't do her alignment on the 37, 317. Yeah. This is the same question we had last week, isn't it? It's the same thing with Susan Advil where the assessment came out, or the tax bill came out after the assessment. They crossed in the mail so the state payment isn't applied to the new assessment. So the tax bill is higher. Yeah. And it'll adjust itself next year. But for this year, it's a catch. And it's almost the same amount as the Abdul case, too. And do you know how the income sensitivity is computed? Does it, is it based on income and the assessment of the real estate? It is. And like John just said, it will be corrected next year when the current assessment catches up to her Homestead Declaration. So the amount that she pays at the end will be relatively close, other than increase in taxes. The only question I have is, if you look at the Homestead Education Tax Rate for the current year, okay, which they have is $1.12. As we look at it for the previous year, it's $1.67. I think they equalize it. Based on the value. Based on the value. That's why our tax rate didn't go down in Montpelier between those two years. So they're making a calculation. I've been away from this for 15 years, but the calculation comes into effect when you take the value from last year at $175,000, that gets equalized down because we were, say, at 70%. And I think when they look at this year's, that's why the tax rate says $1.12. So it's something we should really look into before we start adjusting all the state payments. So is the suggestion that we get some more information, not make a decision on this today, get some more information, and then use that to... I would do that, or else we should be adjusting everybody's tax bill who had a state payment. Well, only if other people have an ability to pay a share, because there's still the underlying, it's not, the argument isn't that there's a difference, but that the difference creates an inability to pay a share. So we didn't hear anything about other extrovertary expenses. We didn't hear anything, something that stopped. She's still here. Yeah, yeah. What's this? We can ask that now. Ms. Dennison, I know you've been hearing a bit of what's been said here. Did you have any extraordinary expenses or anything else other than your income or your taxes that has made it impossible for you to pay this year's taxes? Well, not that it's other than just the usual lowly expenses, utilities, and just, you know, paying my mortgage and, you know, the thing all... My income level was just not, I would not appear to have that kind of increase of a property tax. And like I said, all I did was pay the first few quarters, and if you won't give me a break, I will have to, you know, I would like to have some savings so that if I have an emergency, I'd like to be able to pay tax. I'm saving and to be able to cover some of those things, but you know, I just get by and I don't have any moderately, my income is moderate, so I appreciate whatever you would consider. And are you willing to tell us what your mortgage payment is for a month? It's all up to $800, like $790 some dollars a month. I've been living in my house since 1998, and I've been through two other appraisals, and they're all manageable. I've been able to handle the increase. If they weren't at any point in time, I'm not going to spend anything for a long time. Gotcha. Any member of the board have any other questions before we wrap this up? This one's harder because with Susan Abdo, she very clearly said this was impacting her ability to handle basic life. And so that's kind of a different situation than simply that the taxes are very high. I don't know where to go with that. So is there a motion of any kind? Make a motion to postpone judgment until we get the additional information that we ask for. I mean, it doesn't make any difference. I don't want to go to the effort just try to find all that information because it was personal property. So because my whole point was that my income level is not, they have a property tax increase of this level with excessive and it really doesn't impact me my ability to save money today and have a cushion for emergency. I have a car. I may have car repairs. I have just basic living expenses that I need to have like everybody else who likes to be able to have a little bit of savings. But I don't want to go to the effort to try to figure out why I lost because the whole experience I'm trying to pass it. So I don't really want to wait. Okay. It doesn't really impact what you know, it's personal property. When you said that that doesn't count, it has to be the structure. Donna. I have a question. I thought we were making decisions on these after we did them all. The flood ones, just the flood ones. The flood ones, yeah. I did not give it. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, her extra expense is related to the flood. Right. But this isn't a situation where there's damage to the structure due to the flood, the way the other flood related abatement could. I understand that it doesn't qualify as a flood abatement. And yet when we talk about her other expenses, she's told us she's happy to do the flood. That's her hardship and I don't know how you exclude them. That's part of her. It's like having medical bills. She's had these extra bills due to the flood. The difference in the municipal obligation for the two years is $767. If there's going to be any sort of abatement, maybe it should be the $767. Or a portion of that because Or a portion of for the two months of flooding or something along those lines. Because the big difference in the two bills is what the state allows for state payment. The municipal rate only went up 700 bucks. The state was $7 for the state payment. So where the real difference is what the state is going to give her back as a credit. So if there's going to be an abatement on this, maybe it should be a part of the $767 difference. We did that two quarters and split that in half. That's 383, 384. And it will correct itself next year. Okay, so the chair would entertain any kind of motion that someone wants to make for a resolution of this request? I'm not convinced of an ability to pay. I don't know if we would do a motion to You could make that motion to not grant the request. Okay, I will not grant this request. Is there a second? Bob's second. This is limited to ability to pay for the whole. Right. This is the entire request. Okay, so your motion is no relief. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any further discussion or are we ready to vote? Okay, the motion is not to grant the relief requested. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? The motion carries. Ms. Dennis, I'm afraid we were not able to grant your request. Thank you for participating though. Have to say this. Sorry. It's just me. Before I move on, it's impossible to hear clearly people. I think it was just her because when Sal spoke he was booming. Sal was loud and clear. Yeah. Sal was right. Yeah. There's some echo going on. There's some echo going on. There's some echo going on. There's some echo going on. There's some echo going on. There's some echo going on. There's some echo going on. That's right for what you were saying. Everybody's home situation equipment is very different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, Scott, you're up. Okay. Do you have that shake with the question? May I ask that again? Yes, please do. I don't have a lift ring. Here, you know I'd like to give you some stuff. I have some documents to pass on. I know some members who are not present. Yeah. So, I believe there is a... Just stop. Thank you. I think I might have to get some sound. Wow. I have a couple of extra copies. I don't know if we'll have a chance to read them, but these are all members not here. Great. Thanks. And I'll tell you and also Mr. Boardman, the way we are doing these abatement requests based on the flood damage is that we're taking the testimony at the individual hearings. We're not making decisions at the hearings tonight. We're reserving decisions on all of them until the end of the process. So at the end of the process, we'll have a meeting that we will discuss all of them so that we're sure that we're applying consistent standards and treating everybody fairly. I appreciate that. Thank you. So we'll get all your testimony tonight, but you're not going out here with a decision tonight. I understand. And you want to raise your right hand? Do you solemnly affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Great. Thank you. Now, we have all your packet of materials, which I will admit into evidence. Including what you filed and what you brought in tonight. And we have a standard list of questions. We're going over with all of these, which the clerk is recording the information because we're going to need to refer to all that stuff at the end. Donna. No, he answers the questions. He starts with your questions. In the second page. Oh. Yeah, those are the questions. And I assume they were, I thought it would be helpful. Again, since I know you have limited time and so I thought I'd print them out and here they are. That's great. That's extraordinary. Well, this is great. Now I don't want to go. So is there anything that you need to tell us that you haven't given us in writing? Yes, because I got a couple of surprises this week. I do want you to know, you know, people, I own the building at 124 and 28 Main Street. And my wife and I own that through an LLC. And we have a tenant, which is Yankee Wine Spirits. And my son and I own that through an LLC, a separate one. I wanted to know, you know, we probably wouldn't have survived this at all, except for the graciousness and the generosity of this community. Montpelier alive, the work they did, not just, you know, I mean, supporting the whole effort. The trash collection was relieved. All of us who were building owners of an unbelievable burden. The BGAP program from the state was very helpful. I got, I got a grant. That's this satchel property got a grant of 42,000. We got a grant of 24,000 from the, from Montpelier life or Montpelier strong. And that was wonderful. So I want you to know, we did get that money. But also, I don't know if it's come on your radar or not. I sat down with my accountant today. And, and I realized, I should have known this, but I realized for the first time, those, those grants are all taxable income. And so, it's, you know, cut it by a third or so, which is crazy. Anyway, it is what it is. But I wanted to make sure you had that disclosure. And you understand my commercial tenant is my, my other, my other business. Um, I'm a long time resident, resident of Montpelier since 1980. We own a home here in town. And, uh, been a business person in Montpelier for over 40 years. I'm, I'm not retired yet as an attorney, but I'm, I'm sort of semi-retired. I've stepped back a bit. I'm a counsel to my old firm. But the surprise I wanted to take about, because the second, after these questions, I put a spreadsheet together and it, it details the, um, the cost we've experienced as we've gone forward, nearly 150,000 to repair the kind of buildings and the systems to do things like relocate the electric above the flood level and things of that nature. We relocated hot water above the flood level. We couldn't do that with our furnace. We had to repair it. So it's nearly 150 to date, but this is the strange one. If you look at the, um, that first page of that spreadsheet and, and before I do that, behind it, this is just old documentation and it's not every invoice. It's just the major ones, um, to give you a sense of it because, you know, then you'll see things for $10 to buy brushes or rakes or something. It's, it's an unbelievable project to try to put together a building back together again. But the one I wanted to point out on the, on the first page, um, there's a entry, the third entry down for 22,500. We had, um, engaged service master to, um, work with us and help us clean up the building. And they, um, gave us an estimate, um, which is in the A1 exhibit. They gave us an estimate of $89,000 to do that. And, uh, and some, and actually, I know some of you did stop by the building in those early days after the flood. So you've seen the mess that had to be cleaned up. And some of you own buildings yourselves and, and you, you saw your own mess. So I thought that was a lot of money, but, um, I didn't really think I had any choices. And, um, so I agreed to that. It was a time and, um, materials contract. Um, I paid the 22,000 and, um, it did a good job. And, uh, subsequently I didn't get another invoice from them. So I, I, I didn't hear from them. I didn't hear from them. I actually didn't figure the 22,500 was going to cover it all, but I just didn't hear from them. I didn't go out of my way to try to contact him either, but I didn't hear from them. Um, I think the reason I didn't hear from them was because of the destruction to our post office that they did. Turns out they sent a bill sometime in, um, November. And, um, I never got it. And they never used my email or anything else or called me or did anything else. And then finally, um, uh, like last week, they sent me a letter, um, and, uh, and attached an invoice, which is A2. And the invoice is for $165,000 for the cleaning of this building. The, uh, I don't know where this is going to go yet, um, because I hadn't planned on that. I had planned on somewhere around the 89 or 90,000. I can tell you that if anyone, if I, I mean, my work as an attorney is, is sort of timing materials too. You know, and when I sent someone a bill, it shows what I did and when I did it, how much time I spent, et cetera. This is all I got from them. I didn't get one piece of detail about the work they've done. It doesn't reflect my $22,500 down payment either. So I don't know where this is going to go, but I know right now I have it hanging over my head and I have a Fortune 500 company that's probably going to sue me, um, if I can't work it out. Uh, so I did want you to know that while I've spent about $150,000 to date, um, it's, it's not over. The, the other things that I wanted you to know is there is some, um, you'll see here and you'll see from the, from the responses to the questions, um, we did the things everyone had to do, clean the building, repair the electric system, repair the furnace, new hot water, relocated the electric. We had to take new floors. The floors went down to the original boards and new floors, new flooring, um, the sheetrock to about five feet. The insulation was done. We blew in foam insulation, new sheetrock. We even had to replace our drop ceiling because with all the moisture, it started at mold in the ceiling. So we had to have a, put a brand new ceiling in. Um, we also, we sustained, um, some damage to the foundation. Um, the, the water pressure in the back of our, in the back of our building, the sort of the corner where, um, the hue goes back entrance in the Vermont Community Foundation and our back entrance is a drain there. I am concerned. I've talked to DW about it. I'm concerned there may be a problem with that drain. But I think water has undermined, um, the foundation a little bit. It blew a hole through our concrete, um, so that we've, when we had this last, uh, rain in December 18th, it was coming through there like a fire hose. No place else was leaking, but it was just coming through that. And I know, um, um, the building next door to us in former Hugo's. I know they were getting water coming in as well. Not from us, but from probably from a similar source. So, um, we have to explore that and we're going to have to repair that part of the foundation. I don't know if we're going to have to dig down outside to do it. Um, I, it doesn't seem to me we can just plug it up with cement and hope for the best. So we're going to have to do that. The other thing is our building has a brick veneer and I had, um, oh, I'm blanking on the name of, uh, the civil structural engineers. They were on, not very well, but yeah, dual. And they came down and looked at it. I don't have a structural problem with the building, but the brick veneer on the bank side, um, part of it is pulling away from, from the wooden structure. And, um, so in the summer, I'm going to have to, um, get a masonry, um, company to come in. There's a way to tie the brick back in. Some of you who've been around, I know a lot of you who've been around this town a while might remember on Elm Street where the brick started falling off the building down there by, um, which I think is uncommon market now. So I don't want that to happen. So, um, there is a way to tie that brick back in. You take some out, tie it in, pin it back to the building. It's not a structural problem, but it is a problem that you can't just let go. So there are still some things to be done with this building. We lost, um, I couldn't provide electric to my tenants for two or three weeks and hot water for a little bit longer. I gave them a rebate and I detailed that in this as well. So I didn't charge them for the times that I felt they lost the use of their building. With the, uh, the liquor store, which we've been unable to open, we have lost income to the, to such properties of 24,000 today here. Going to start charging, um, rent again March 1. We're hoping to be open. We're close, um, but still it's amazing how many small details there are. Again, there's a whole separate set of, um, a whole separate spreadsheet for what it's cost us to put the store back together, but that's not for you to worry about today. So, um, you know, I regret to answer any questions. I do, like I said, I've spent 150,000 close to that already. Um, that doesn't, that doesn't account for any of my time. It doesn't, it doesn't account for the stress of the trauma. And, you know, I think that, um, you know, it's not part of this evapement hearing, but everyone who's gone through this, this is a traumatic event. It's traumatic. People in the city council, it's traumatic to see our city in this situation. It's not just traumatic for me or my building. It's traumatic for this whole city. And, um, we're, um, you know, we thought long and hard about whether we were going to try to make a comeback or not. And we decided to do it. And I hope we'll be able, as a city, to move forward and to find some ways to, um, invigorate and mitigate the, uh, the river, uh, and the potential in the future. But, uh, you know, we're, my wife and I, we're committed to this city and, uh, my son and I are committed to it. And, um, so if there's, uh, again, if this request is consistent with the other requests that you get and that you deem worthy of, uh, supporting, then, uh, thank you for it. And, uh, if it's not consistent, I thank you for your time. Great. Thanks for coming in. Does anyone have any questions? Okay. Can you read his flood and church for the next month? I hope so. Do you have any idea what the cost is? I don't. I don't. I haven't, you know, I, I've been thinking about it a lot. And I was thinking about it a lot on December 18. Yeah, really? With that coming in, we had a, um, we had a, a summer over, over time, it almost burned out. Uh, a friend, you know, I put, I put a call out. It was late at night. I put a call out on Facebook. A friend went to a granite shed and got a commercial sump up and brought it down to our place. And, um, so we never filled up with water that day. Um, I, I know that the building next door to me did have quite a bit of water on it. But I think, I think we need, we have to get flood and church. I couldn't, I couldn't do this again. We have cost, you mentioned here somewhere, the concern about repetition. And it's gotta be real and it's gotta be expensive. Flood insurance? Yeah, well, flood insurance is one way to do it. But it's very, it's very expensive. I imagine it would be horribly expensive. You can Google it. The average house is like $13,000 a year. Oh, it's not. Yeah. Flood insurance? No, not. You can buy a lot of flood insurance, Todd. Okay, well, it's not. Okay, that's good. No, that's great. Well, you're scaring me, Don. Well, I mean, I Googled it for a neighbor. I was just stunned. I just got some new bills for some of our blocks that portion of the work I was doing. They didn't drop me, but I'm very, very glad. Well, you do have to take some mitigation. So in all your repairs, did you feel like you were able to take some mitigation steps? I did, but it's not 100%. We were able to relocate all the electric service. So, for example, we had like many commercials, our electric service main entrance was down in the basement. Now everything is up on the first floor above the flood level. It cost a lot to do that, but, and I wasn't even, you know, I didn't do it because of the regulation, which I now understand requires it, but I just wasn't going to put it down there again. I would have, I tried to look at alternatives to the heating system. We have four commercial tenants, sorry, sorry, four residential tenants on the second, third floor. And we explored heat pumps and exchanges up there. But the cost for that was over $50,000. And I just on top of all this couldn't do it at this time, might do it in the future. There are some rebates available for that kind of work. And we had cellulose insulation in the walls. It turns out we, we had to cut the walls out and, you know, pull all that stuff out. And then the dry stuff on top fell down through it. So we added all that. So we got Elliott Curtin to come in warm and they used closed cell urethane foam, which is waterproof. So if it happens again, you'll still have to cut out the drywall and let it dry out. But I don't think you will. We have to replace that. Yeah, so, all that's good. So those types of things we did, we have, we had wood shelving for wine. We have now metal shelving. Our metal shelving for the liquor, we took that out and brought it to my son's house. He had a spare horse barn. And we ended up, I don't know. I thought it was crazy, but we did. We salvaged it all. A lot of it was rust, rusted, everything. We got it, pressure washed, it painted it all and it's back in place. So we were able to save that. So for the wine shelving, which was wood, we bought metal. Now that's not part of the satchel property thing. That's part of the liquor store. But that's also, it was answering your question. So, but there's a lot of things that you can't protect against. And even with the flood insurance, I understand there's some limited protections you get for your basement and anything that's below ground. I didn't see it. I think he's right. Yeah. I have another question about, I didn't see anything about your lost income. Even if I just looked at it here. Oh, you know, I didn't put a spreadsheet. I could follow it up, but I did it in the answers to the questions and I spelled it out. You know, specifically the time that the tenants were out. I think it was, that was the question. Six, property lost income. Yeah. So I put down the rent we get from the apartment monthly and from the, it's on page three of the answers to the questions. So the question is number six. It's the first part of the exhibit, page three of that. So instead of the 3600 for that month, I gave them a credit for $2,613 and charged them $987 for the time they had full use of the property. So I lost 2,600 there. And then we've lost August through January. We have not been able to, we've not been able to, well, we wouldn't even be able to offer the building to the liquor store until pretty recently. And now they're refitting the liquor store. So we lost 24,000 and we'll probably, we'll start collecting rent next month. Well, great. It's very helpful to have this information provided in this form. It'll make our job easier. Bob. Yeah. Scott, what percent of the building was unusable for how long? You know, I guess it's how you count it, but I would say 50% of the building was unusable. But that's if you're talking four floors, you know, someone might minimize the basement, you know. But we used the basement. That was, it was integral. That's where all the liquor was stored. Thank God the liquor was owned by the state. They own it to the seller? They own it. And this was, you know, not, this is ironic, I guess. Because no one, well, not no one, we had, you know, we knew there could be a flood, but no one really expected what happened that day. If there's anyone here who did, then I'm mad at you for not telling me. But the state delivered about $70,000 worth of liquor that morning to our basement. Wow. It wasn't, it wasn't until three o'clock in the afternoon. I know. But we had, we had all our storage down there. We had our furnace down there. We had our electric down there. We had a bunch more systems. Our oil tanks were down this. So you said about 50% of the building was totally unusable? Yes. The basement and the first floor were totally unusable, except, I mean, we were in there doing repairs. I mean, we didn't finish the floor until just about, I don't know if you can look at where Alex came from. Okay, one place here, you say the total loss ran between August 4th and January 31st is the $26,000. In two? Yes. Now, and then with the other portion where you're down here and you talk about you're not going to open until March 1st, I don't see direct. But then it doesn't matter, because we're just looking at the first two quarters now anyway. Oh, okay. So, I mean, that's what we're doing with this process. But that includes the first floor. That would be the first floor. The liquor store rented, their lease was for the first floor on the basement. And each of the floors are the same number of square feet? Yes, it's a rectangular building. The second and third floor and the apartments, other than the temporary loss of use, because mainly from the loss of electric. But, you know, we did lose hot water. And, you know, it's easier to live without hot water for a little while than without electricity. And we were lucky to get the heat back, because I explored everything for heat. I explored city heat, which again, we couldn't have got up and running in time. Couldn't have done it. I explored the heat pumps. And finally, I realized I had no choice. The only thing that would get them heat before the weather turned really cold was repairing the furnace. So that's what we did. The furnace is no longer the source of hot water. That's now the hybrid system that's above the flood level. But it is, that's our heat source. And we just barely got that in. And I think it was mid-October. So it was getting pretty chilly. And you were able to repair it and not replace it? We were able to repair it. Because I understand if you'd been required to replace it, would have been required to go upstairs. Yes, and I don't know where we could have put it. Well, thanks. I'm sure I'm not the only person looking forward to having you back at business. Dry January is almost over, Scott. I know, I know. And everything seems to take longer than you think. All right, thanks for coming in. You're very welcome. Thanks for your attention. I appreciate it. And I appreciate all you do. Thanks. Break down the tail. Still some sort of. Well, I have some access to any of that material that's ended up in the extra copies. Yep, we've got extra copies. There's two extra copies. Okay, Mr. Boardman, thanks for coming in. Yeah. Well, I didn't realize we had to do that. Well, you don't have to do that. He went over and... I don't know. I see that. Above what was required. Yeah. The lawyer told you so. Yeah. There's a cost to not. So, we'll just raise your right hand. You solemnly affirm subject to the pains and penalties of perjury. The testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Okay, now we are looking at four. Four, is it? Separate properties of yours. And as I have with the other properties, I will admit the filings that you submitted into evidence, presumed that you would testify that these are fair and complete statements. Okay. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to go over the list of questions that we've prepared to get the basic information that we've decided we need to address these. So, speaking first of eight Langdon Street, was there a 50% or greater loss in the value to the primary structure of the property? Was there a loss of use of the primary structure for 60 days or more? And how many stories is this building? Three. And what floors were, did you lose the use of? Well, because of the electrical and septic we lost use of the whole building for the duration of the process. Okay, actually the tenants. Gotcha. Was there a loss of access by the property owner to utilities for the primary structure for 60 days or more? No. No. Was there condemnation of the property under federal state or municipal law? No. Is the damage to land only to the outbuilding only or both only? Do you have any? Do you have any outbuildings on the property or just the main building? Just the land main building. Uh-huh. And has there been income loss? Yes. And do you know what the income loss? Yeah, we can send that to you. Okay, great. Do you know the building's total square footage? I think it's 23,000. And we have, actually we have your property card too. Because it's on there. Yeah, uh-huh. I didn't realize we had to do that, but I can send you all the information properly. And the estimated square footage of the damaged area, once the utilities were restored Was there damage to the upper floors or just to the ground floor? Just to the ground floor. Okay. And we've got the figures for the square footage of each of the floors, so we can compute that. Okay, does anyone have any other questions regarding eight Langdon Street? Just one, so on that one, so you had started a project before the flood, right? That's correct. So basically you moved all the tenants out and you had the process of renovating the upper levels? Well, we didn't move the tenants out yet. We were in the process, just we gave them all notice, but then the flood hit. Okay, so they weren't. So yeah, exactly. Yeah, unfortunately, yeah. Is the uh, is the place back habitable and able to use now? The first floor is ready, but that seems like we're working on the second, third floor is another renovation, so the tenants are able to use it now. Great. They're able to use the building now. Okay, anybody else have any other questions? Sorry, when was the first floor repaired and ready to use it? Um, I'd say mid, mid November. We were pretty close. So five months basically. Which building number? We don't hate Langdon. Nice. And what efforts? I mean, what took so long so we didn't feel free to not, not met in a, in a meeting about give us a description of what you were doing during that time. It's square footage based. It's uh, you know, as Scott said, we tried to rectify for future flood. We moved utilities. There's a lot of utilities in the building that size and everything, the basement that was existing. We removed and mitigated everything and cleaned, repaired all the floors, replaced everything. So we did a due diligence, which takes time. Did you wind up having to replace the furnace or whatever the heating system is? Yes. All electrical, all heating, everything's been moved in. That's all up above flood level now. Depending on how bad the next flood is. Yeah, within, yeah, the best of our abilities, yes. One thing just that's interesting with this building compared to a lot is it has a sewer problem system. So like most of the properties we're talking about is gravity flow and the city lines. This one. So there's an extra mechanical system. That's why we had to remove the tenants, right? Because you actually couldn't use the building. There's no stability for septic or water. Which now it is gravity. You did. Good for you. Congratulations. It's a little tough, but we did it. Thank you. How long was it? You said it already. But how long was the delay on the fixing all that so that the tenants, for the no, for the upper floors? Oh, they had to move out. I mean, they can't use, can't survive. Right. How long was the sewer system out? Well, one thing we moved out, it wasn't a priority. We discovered all the flood debris. So I wouldn't know maybe three months till we got it functioning. Because the work you're doing upstairs is not just to get it back to where you were, but to create housing units there. I forget. How many housing units are you putting in? Great. Always happy to hear about new housing units. We need people. Yep. We're going to spend money. Last night's topic. Donna. Last night's topic. Yeah, exactly. I'm missing something. Any actual cost numbers? He said he was going to send them. Okay, that's what was missing. Well, it didn't state. It just, it was, they're all yes or no. And I've never done that. I totally understand. I just wondered, are you sending for that? Yep. If Scott's sheet is public information, I will. I could use that as a template. It's a square red sheet. Yeah, actually it is. Right. So yeah. I could use that as a template. I think everybody really should. I mean, he's probably an adequate entity. Thank you. I'll compliment him on his legal work. Yeah. Make life easy. All right. Are we ready to move to the next property? Seven Barrett Street. All right. Seven Barrett Street. That's the building I'm familiar with. This is the apartment building. That's very gentleman. So that wasn't as bad. We had no flood insurance on that. But we did have to do a bunch of work in the basement, laundry, remove all the storage units and all the flood debris and mitigation of water from that. So that was, like I said, there's no insurance or anything on that. So we ate all that service out of pocket. And in this building, the only floor that was affected was the basement? That's correct. So was there a 50, I think I'll know the answer to all these questions. So I'm going to go through them all just so we have them on the record in easy form. Not a 50% or greater loss of value to the property. Was there use to the primary structure of the property for loss of use of the primary structure for 60 days or more? Was there loss of access to the property owner to utilities for 60 days or more? Condemnation? No. And condemnation is no for all of these. That's correct. Is there damage to land only, to an outbuilding only, or to both only? Was there damage to the land? No. Okay. And I don't remember if you have any outbuildings or just an outbuilder. Okay. Was there any income loss? No. And we have, is this another one where all the storage orders are the same square footage? That's correct, yep. And the damage was only the square footage on the ground floor? That's correct. Okay. Any questions for this one? I want to picture where this is. Is this? My neighbor. In the Liberty Chamber? Close. St. Paul. St. Paul. Oh, here. You know that little, it's this cool brick building, yeah. He has beautiful apartments. Yeah. And it's a sideways on St. Paul Street. So, yeah. Just, you said there was damage to the first floor, to the basement. Just the basement. Yeah, the first level. First, okay. That's, the basement is the first level, okay. Yeah, when I said ground floor, I meant the basement level, yeah. Okay, because first floor got it. Yep. Okay. Just wanted to check on the guard here. Thank you. Is that, looking at the picture here, is that the first row windows that we see? That's that. That's it. That's it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Two sides of garage street. That's the garage center. Yeah. And the laundry. And the laundry. Okay. We can move on to 8th State Street. And could you remind us which building this is? That would be Botanica's World Cow and Anna's. Okay. Can you say those again? Botanica, World Cow, and Anna. And, and that is how many stories? The building? Yeah, three stories. Okay. And, is there a basement? That's correct. Okay. Was there 50% or greater loss in value to the primary structure? Was there loss of use by the primary owner of the primary structure for 60 days or more? By the primary owner? No. Okay. What about the tenants on the first floor? And were they paying rent during the time or was there a time when they were not paying? No rent during the floor. Okay. Once they were, once we got our occupancy, we charged rent. And that was up to them. Okay. And not condemned any damage, no outbuilding. No. And no damage to the land. What was the income loss? I can send you that, but it was the three months of tenancy for the building. Plus, we had no flood, so we repaired, moved, altered and did all that in-house. So three months of income loss for the first floor? That's correct. And the upper floors remained usable and occupied the entire time? Yeah, there was a little inconvenience with the power, but we got that sorted out right off. Are there any offices in that building or is it all apartments? It's all apartments. And we have the information about the total square footage and the square footage of the damaged area. It's just the first floor. And I'll send you the expenses. First floor and basement? In basement. That's correct. Yeah. Any other questions? Donna. Um, was not this building also affected by the floods in December? Um, no, there were just some water into the basement, yeah. So that affected electrical? I had no heating. No, no, no. No, they had no heat because of Irving. They had no heat because of Irving. Irving, oil. Yeah, so when Irving set all those tanks, they didn't, when they set the new tanks, they never put them on auto, so everybody ran out of fuel. Oh, yeah. But to their, to their benefit, it is new setup and it is a new account number because the tanks are new numbers. So, and they did a lot. Irving was very busy. I just knew that they were closed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, and I wasn't sure. Yeah. No, because they were back over, not an hour later, but they were helpful. Any other questions? Or are you going to move on to the next one? Okay, finally, two-state street. This is the one on the corner. That's correct. And the basement in this building, too. That's correct, yeah. And was the damage in the basement in the first floor only? Basement in the first floor only. Uh-huh. Was there a 50% or greater loss in value to the primary structure? No. Was there a loss of the primary structure for 60 days or more? Two times, yes. Uh-huh. And how long was it? About three months, but uh-huh. Yeah, I saw Willis in there working in the store sometime before Christmas, but yeah. Well, and fire hit him. So, he's got some broad shoulders. Oh. Yeah, he took it. I mean, but we got him back as fast as we could on that one, too. I guess nobody else is open. There was some budding, man. Charlie, I was just kidding. No, I know. We kicked it in gear for him. We cleaned it. Got the pure clean in there the next day. We actually got the power run to the whole block. So, yeah, we pushed for him. And there was never a time when the upstairs tenants were out. Oh, great. They were only inconvenienced by hot water for maybe three days or something. Okay. Not condemned. No damage to land or outbuildings. Loss of income. The rent on the first floor for three months. And we've got the square footage because it's rectangular, the same. Yep. Now, with some of these properties, my recollection is you're the owner of these buildings at this point? Yes. Okay. Anyone have any other questions? Are the bases rented or is that just kind of storage for utilities? Yeah, it's just empty utilities, please. And did you have to replace the furnace in this building? In two stages to it? No, we repaired it. Okay. Anyone have any other questions? And Sal and Sarah, I just want to make sure that you're hearing and you... Yes, Sarah, you're all set? Okay, good. All right. Well, what we're going to do, as I said, is we're going to go over all this stuff at the end of the process, which is around three weeks from now and now. Can I get it out there? Oh, sure. Okay. Thank you. I've got the mic in the front. Yeah, yeah. For the other folks. You can probably keep me on the job. I was going to say... Or me, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure she's done some communication, so we'll deliver each individual property in question. And... Sure. Great. Thanks for coming in. It's awesome. Thank you all for your time. Thanks for your time.