 We're back. It's still the breakfast on plus CV Africa. My name is Kofi Bartels. Let's get to our first major conversation this morning. We have a guest already on standby. And the coalition of aviation workers unions is threatened to proceed on an industrial action in the next 14 days. If the anti-labour, what they call anti-labour clauses in the new aviation law currently awaiting the ascent of the new aviation bill currently waiting the ascent of the president is not removed. The coalition is made up of the National Union of Air Transport Employees, Air Transport Senior Staff Association of Nigeria, National Association of Aircraft Pilots and Engineers, Association of Nigerian Aviation Professionals, and the amalgamated unions of public operations as well as the civil service technical and recreational service employees. Now specifically the unions decried what they termed a quote a subtle attempt to restrain and obliterate unionism in the aviation sector end of court. They also lashed an unknown persons in the sector, instead, inserted rather repressive clauses into the new bill's governing affairs of the NCAA that's here, Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority, the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria and four other aviation agencies. They are demanding that the leadership of both the Senate and House of Assembly committees on aviation withdraw the bills and expunge the controversial clauses before the approval of these clauses by Mr. President. I'm glad to say joining us to discuss this latest development in Nigeria's aviation sector is Assistant Secretary General of Aviation Safety Roundtable Initiative, Olumide O'Hunayo. Glad to have you Olumide. Thanks for joining us this morning. Thanks for having me. Good morning. Fantastic. Do you agree with the, I would call them amalgamated unions of in the aviation sector that the current aviation bill as it is been presented to Mr. President must be changed? Well, not in totality because the group was still changing. The first time the Senate was inserted into the act, then later I heard now it's now a different act. But the truth is that that section that is generating this fury was in the Civil Aviation Act in 2006 that was just re-enacted and passed by the Mr. President, you know, and signed by Mr. President. It was there. That has always been in the bill. So just wondering why all of a sudden it's starting to an issue for the union. All right. But some have said, you know what, this is their chance to get a change if they didn't have that before. This is their chance to get a change. And of course, the fact that we look at the labor laws in the country, anything that should affect unionism in any part of the, you know, any institution in the country, not just the public sector, but the private sector should be discouraged, you know. So what do you say to this? If it's something that was there in 2006 and simply repeated in the new law, does it mean that they should not stand up and fight it? Should we be looking at the heart of the matter? Whether this in session or this provision rather helps things? That's the need both I gave in my opening statement that I would support it a bit as well. They need to look at it and have it adjusted. But you see the truth here is that all the world that that particular clause has been in the act, they've always gone on strike or without anybody holding onto that or obeying that clause. So probably they're looking at the future whereby the rule of law would take this effect and it might probably be used to hold them down. But let me just have a little look at it. That's clause. That's on article 67 of the General Service Section of the Civil Aviation Act. And it says, the minister may by regulations prohibit all or such class or classes of workers, officers and other employees of persons, whether corporate or natural, engaged in a provision of the services specified in section one of this section from taking part in a strike or order industrial action. Now what are the services? They are all services which facilitate and maintain the smooth orderly and safe take off flights and handling of aircraft and the disembarkation and the evacuation of passengers and cargo respectively in all aerodromes in Nigeria are by designated as essential services. Now this clause is for actions within the aerodrome area. Aerodrome area here is about, we're talking about the wrong way area, the tax, we are aircraft land, critical sterilized safety area of the aviation industry. Well, so on who's spot, I mean at the end of the day now and you have this workers who are saying we're backing on a strike action and on the other hand it's because of a certain reason which the government is involved and who would you say is actually right or wrong here? Well, like your colleague there said, if this was in the act before and you now want it removed or expunged, then you have to go through negotiation, mix awareness about it and see how it can be expunged. But to say it was just smuggled in, that is not the fact. So that's why I've read the 2006 act that was that was that was repaired and not reintroduced and signed by Mr President and still in the in the new act. Now under this act, now what that's actually that it's those on the aerodrome side but look at that aerodrome side, the air traffic controllers are on that side and as a two days ago they still went on strike in Kanu because of the issue they have with the fan authorities over power supply to the to the to the building of the air traffic controllers to the to the residential quarters that was cut off by fan. The 87 men there in Kanu went on strike and grounded all flights in Kanu which also bridge this coast because that's an aerodrome area. The law has always been there. The labor labor have always done what they want to do. So I didn't understand why we're having this parade this time around. Okay, they have protested suppose they just missed their flight because they caused some traffic at the airports and just missed their flight. They have written to the minister, written to the Senate Committee on Aviation, the House Committee on Aviation and every other person they've copied with respect to their opposition to that law that issue exposes. So and they have within 10 they've given about 10 for we have about 12 days left now after the after the protest it was 14 days after the protest. So we have about 10 days left to see what can be done, how all parties can come together and agree on it. But for me, I feel like if it was there all the while and you still do your thing and you felt like it's been felt, why bother this time around? That's what I say. So look at the heart of the matter. I mean you are an aviation industry expert. If you look at the you know ex illegal experts have said that you look at the common law in Nigeria, you know workers are entitled to go on strike or industrial action, provided they give sufficient notice. In this case the aviation units are saying this law is going to prevent us from you know embarking on a strike, from picketing, from shutdown, from lockdown. But if you look at apart from the Nigerian laws, you look at the Trade Disputes Act or the Trade Union Act rather and even the Trade Disputes provisions, employees have the constitutional right to embark on industrial action. So this is the right that cannot be denied them. We also look at international law, I mean you look at international law, international best practices, workers are right to strike is protected or governed by international legal instruments. You have the conventions of the United Nations, the international labour organizations as well as provisions by bodies like the African Union. So these are guarantees, international guarantees. Let's look at the international practice across the aviation sector around the world. Don't we have aviation sectors in other countries including the advanced or more advanced countries going on strike or industrial action? Well I agree with you, it's just an actual knowledge aspect of the industry but what the closest delving at right now is on the aerodrome side, which has to do with safety. They're saying that it should not affect the landing, takeoff, the evacuation of passengers and the boarding of passengers on the aerodrome side. We can do all you need to at the airport terminal in and around the airport in your offices but not on the aerodrome side. That's where the sterilization is not being tampered with or risked. So this law has always been there and the unions have always gone on strike and had their way and whatever decision they wanted the government of where the agencies act upon was dealt with based on them using that instrument, that strike. So I don't think that that power has been taken away. Again the air traffic controllers are the one on the aerodrome side who should have to be the one that should have kicked against that clause. But the air traffic controllers still go ahead with their strike. But this time around what they do is that they start the notice to airmen and that they will proceed on strike so that airlines and operators can prepare for the day that they're supposed to proceed. The one that happened in Cano was spontaneous. They did not give any notice. They just stopped, they just didn't operate, allowed any flight to takeoff, didn't give any startup or allow any aircraft to land. So that happened in Cano on Monday. But like I said, it's the aerodrome side and I think for me, a person that I don't see any drone with this, this time from timing memorial, we know that unions have always used their right and use it effectively, you know what they want. Yeah, but it seems like there's a there's a there's a there's a bid here to, you know, have a reason at play. You know, you've talked about what happened in Cano if some some airline is on the way from Dubai to Cano and then maybe it's also land at 12 p.m. or at 1 p.m. And then at 12.55, the Unicell were going to strike then of course the airline safety and aircraft safety will be compromised. So shouldn't we rather than say you cannot embark on such industrial actually if you are in the aerodrome axis of the airport, you know, like you've said, shouldn't we say we should conform to the laws of the land, you know, which I mean the trade dispute act is quite techy if I must be be be honest. But shouldn't we say that okay, let's conform to the best practices looking at the laws across board, give us ample information, let us know so so and so days ahead, let's sit around the table and agree that if you're going to go on the strike, you're going to tell us that you can go at this. And why I'm asking this is because I asked again, sir, across the world, what are the international best practices do, you know, workers in other parts of the country work in the aerodrome area, do they go and strike or not? And I've said, I don't know, do they go and strike a lot because we can look at what the other countries are doing to to learn from the industry around the world. Strikes are legit and allowed both on the airside and on the on the terminal side of the airport. So unions have a way to of going on strike and they keep notices ahead for those in the critical areas. We've seen air traffic controllers in other countries refuse to to work and the Air Force personnel are brought into martial some flights and commercial flights are reduced or stopped abruptly only for emergency flights to be allowed to land and just to take care of the situation while they negotiate with air traffic controllers. So there's all the labor unions around the world have always going to strike whether they will work on the aerodrome side or the inside because necessarily arrangements and information are available to the authorities and what are the plans I mean. Okay, but, you know, let's come back and also look at some of the issues. Apart from, you know, union issues and the class, you know, in the bill that you have workers of the aviation sector protesting. Let's look at the issue of, you know, the aviation fuel and the fact that, you know, the prices of flight bays, I mean domestic flight have been on the high on the other side and at some point, you know, they have also threatened to hold work. We also hear the minister saying that it is within, you know, out of control for the sector, whatever crisis they're faced with, especially with the aviation fuel, it is out of their control and there's nothing that can be done. Now, what are your thoughts on this? The tickets are actually on the high. I mean, tickets have actually gone up to as much as 50,000 error and above. And, you know, in some cases, you have these sectors saying airline saying they're not going to fly. There's a lot going on, especially for the domestic flight. I'd like you to show your thoughts of it. What are my thoughts? I think I'm also as confused as the rest of the industry. Why would have to say the option of solving up the petroleum crisis is based on a long time plan? Like the minister said, the minister got us all confused there. He's looking at the option of a decoded refinery on its completion. That would help. And then when the government finish turning around the FIP leptic protocol and a cardinary refinery, for us, that's too long. There's no certainty in those options. But the certainty we have right now, that the mapinari can help us with the a vision for a crisis at times, is to look at the modular refineries that are on ground in Nigeria. We have about 20 of them who have been working for over a year to be allocated crude oil. For God's sake, over a year. They're not allocating, but they're sitting abroad. Now, in this modular refineries, happily for them, or locally for them, a vision for this is deregulated. This is deregulated. This is deregulated. So there's no subsidy to be paid. So it's after their course, at the time of the pride, they were sent to airlines. So it's good to build just a lot of the modular refineries to start off with their a vision for oil. And there are about two or three of them. Again, in the interim, because of the high cost of the oil price in the international market caused by the one Ukraine, between Ukraine and Russia, I think the landing cost at the port and the tax at the airport should, for the moment before, at this period, be waived so that we can, so that the price can drop. We started the year with $119 per liter, and today it's about $900. Which is almost $40. So if the a vision for that cost about $7,400 of its price in January, and the ticket has just moved from about $25,000 in January, to about $150,000, which is about five times the price in January, then you will see that the airlines have tried not to move to much the level of the increase in the fuel price. So that's the decision we're in the industry. The fuel price is killing. The airlines are not getting strong. We have lost two airlines are down now, Aero and Dana. We just hope we don't add more to it. But we need to expand the capacity. And in expanding the capacity, the condition of the operations, the cost of operations must be favorable to expand capacity to improve the process from the airlines. All right. Thank you so much. So what we have on ground is that the unions have given this 14 the ultimatum and they're saying that the clause in the electoral act, sorry, the aviation act within the presidency. It goes against all international conventions and laws and practices in the aviation sector. So 14 days hence, we might say a total shutdown of the aviation sector in Nigeria. I mean, probably we almost had a shutdown because we had the airports scanty these days. But of course, we're getting towards the end of the year where people will be traveling around and traveling for the holidays. We expect to see, I'm sure you'd agree, increased activity at the airports. Let's see what happens. They have also said that the issue of essential services was not discussed at any time when the six bills in consideration were discussed at the National Assembly level. So they think that this was smuggled in, you know, further. I can only appeal to the unions to please handle with care, get there with communication. They should see how they can improve their communication before they get to that last thing, which is strike. And hopefully, I don't think we could get there. But you see, when you say it was smuggled in. No, they said. Yes. When they say it was smuggled in, it was in the last act. And the actuals they produced to update it. So at that point, we're all at the same. I was there, they were there. At that point, they would have, they would have objected to that close meeting in 2006. I said they should not put it back in the new world. But Mr. President, and that last minute, that's what they say. They're looking at it with fun, with fun acts that they had before and they're not being smuggled in, in order to stop them from getting the concession. I think that's the issue now. Mr. Honore, we have to go. I mean, I'm glad you've clarified this as you were there. And we'll see what happens. But Evasion Sector is very critical. I'm sure you already know this to the Nigerian economy. And it's in the state of crisis right now. Thank you so much for your time. And look forward to seeing you again. Thank you for having me. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you very much. Of Evasion Sector or Safety, rather, Roundtable Initiative. We have our next conversation up next. Of course, a guest standing by. I'll be right back after this to continue on the breakfast.