 Okay, we're streaming. It should be getting data now. It says stream status good. Yep. It should be going now. Pokemon Switch News. Pokemon Switch News. Yeah, what? Pokemon Switch News. What are you talking about? Arnold. Stream status good. Um, some French interview. There's a, uh, I don't know who this is. It's a quote from this interview. Pokemon Switch News. Okay. We were not allowed into the development area with our cameras. Our host brought us to a room overlooking the castle basking in the winter sun. And then go ahead and mute YouTube. When YouTube's on an interview. Huh? Oh, okay. Hooray. How's that? Until I sit down and everything breaks. Oh, right. Because it does that. Oh, yeah, it's just gonna say We might want to start the audio. It's only if like for some reason it starts lagging. Yeah. Hooray. All right. All right. How's it going guys? Good. Good? All right. That's good. Darren, you there? Yeah, I'm here. You're still just chowing down. You can't stop for the podcast, no? No, I will. Uh-huh. Who was that? RGT that was doing that on that one? Yeah, it's possible. Yeah, let's focus. Started choking. Started choking on chips. That was funny. Nice. I'm like, that really happened. Wow. That doesn't even want to mute his mic while he was just chomping away. Why are we all of a sudden? Is that us? Yeah. That's me. You can just shut me down. I know. I'm just saying. We can adjust me on the fly. I'm a loud guy. I like to get loud. See, that's too loud. Yeah, I know. Too loud. Test, test, test, test, test. It feels like now that you sat down, it decided to work better. I don't know. Don't ask me. And then, so it's picking up. That's how it rolls. I'm loud. Yeah, I know. I'm just a lot louder than you. All right. So, hey, Playrestons. Welcome to the stream, man. Welcome to the stream. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Appreciate the podcast. Yeah, yeah. For some reason, she says isn't here. I don't know why. He really wanted to be here. He's specially requested to come on this week. But oh well, we're going to go on without him because we're already starting late. Yeah. Yeah, did you get the topic list I sent you? I did. Okay, cool. I mean, obviously we're just talking about Smash. Not too difficult, I don't think. Nah. I don't know anything about Smash. What are you talking about? Absolutely nothing. All right, you guys already, oh, easiest way. When people want to get me video and they don't want to have to transfer it, is if you actually do like your own, like private Google Hangout and then just send me the video link. But yeah. Some YouTubers are like, that's too difficult. I'm like, all right. Sure. No, next time I can definitely get that set up next time. No, yeah, it's cool. We never actually got a chance to talk about the setup for it. So, it's all right. Okay, yeah. We've been busy. It's been a busy week. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I hear you. All right. Well, if you guys are ready, first thing we'll do, I already know. Yes, I know. You don't have to remind me. That's what I do for a living. I was just giving you a round of applause. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. First thing we do is a countdown to sync up all our audios. So, basically I go three, two, one, and then when I would say zero, we just all clap instead. And we do that a few times. So, if you and Darren are both ready, we can do that quick. Yeah, I'm ready. I'm recording. All right. So, three, two, one, three, two, one, three, two, one. Hey, that last one. That last one won't work. That's why we do it three times. Yep, one of them that works. All right. That's okay. I actually know that the editing on this one, so I'm not the one that has to do with the problem, to be honest. Thanks, Martin. Thank you, Martin. When you get a sense. Love you, Martin. All right. So, we'll just get right into this. I need one more drink quick. Let's get right into the news. It's fighting a little bit of a cold, so. Let's get really, let's get right into the news. I just caught that. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Nintendo Prime podcast, episode 56, although this is really a special. It's the Smash Cast. Smash Cast. Smash Bros. all the time, because you know that Super Smash Bros. is coming to Switch. And for such a special episode, we had to have such a special guest. That would be OJ from Player Essence. What's up, man? Thanks for having me. I'm really happy to be here. No problem. I'm glad you are here, too. I know we are both very busy individuals, so it's very hard to find times, especially during the week, to make this happen, but I'm glad that we did. And we have always, well, almost as always, Darren. Almost, almost as always, as always as I ever can be. Almost as always as those end-of-day roundup posts. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that was it. We'll talk about that later. And then the hostess with the mostest, Mr. Eric Morris here. Hello, everybody. And remember, he now does officially have Twitter. I do. But I'm going to keep reminding people every week, because I'm still shocked. Any posts on Nintendo Prime, I did not know that. Yeah. I found this out today. Yeah. It's because you haven't talked to me about Nintendo Prime, so you don't even know what's happened anymore. I don't. All right. Prime thinks that's what's happening. That's what's happening. And for those who don't know, we're talking about Nintendo Prime.net. It's kind of related to what we do, because it's the same entity, but it's not YouTube. So it's not. Yeah. Don't worry about it. You ain't got to go there. So let's just get right into it, because as you guys know, or as our listeners know at least, we had a three-hour podcast last week. We are not repeating that. And that would be my phone. Hey. Nice. Julia, time to wake up for work. Yeah. 9.30. She doesn't work tonight. I don't even know why I have that alarm on. For those who don't know it, 9.30 every single night, my alarm goes off to remind me to wake her up, because she's really bad at waking up to her own alarm. Doesn't that go off the last week, too? It does. It goes off every week. I should turn it off. No, she doesn't work some Thursday, so I... Yeah. All right. Um, yeah. So we're going to try to shorten up the cast this week. Three hours is just really, really long. And I have... Two and a half. It was three hours and seven minutes. No, I mean, this week we'll be showing it. No, no, it will not, because I have another video I have to edit tonight and some other stuff to do. We all have lives and I have kids, and OJ has one. So staying up super, super late all the time isn't always good. So let's just hop right into almost smash up. And normally we do a topic rundown. I don't really know where this cast is going to go, because I don't know that any of us necessarily expected Smash Bros. to be coming to Switch just yet. Now, we've known since the direct. I'm like 99% sure that it's a new game. I know there's still people believing in the last week you said it was a port. That's because that was immediately after the direct, before I did any research. Like all I knew was, okay, we have the Wii U in cleans, and they put Breath of the Wild Link in there. Well, of course they did. Yeah, right. So I'm like, going off of that, it's a port. Plus there was a port as well. So I really didn't have any additional information. Now we have lots of additional information. I don't know if you call it a lot. We have some additional information. Basically, they're like tweets from Sakurai talking about how he's been working on it every day, making it sound like it's new, but whatever. There's the copyright thing, but then they also did that with Super Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. What else? There was a whole bunch of stuff. I was going through it in a different video, and now I don't remember any of it. Evidence for and against, but there's more evidence for it being new than it being new. Reality is we don't know 100% for sure, but at least I'm confident this is a new game. Are you guys? Yeah, I'm fairly confident. I'm pretty confident based on the fact that if you look at all Nintendo's other courts that they've done so far, they've never done a CG trailer for a port with a working, and then also had it with a working title. That's never happened from what I can see. So that would be extremely weird if it's a CG trailer, new characters, whatever the case is. It looks like Link's going to be completely redone. And then all of a sudden it has a working title, so it doesn't have a final title, but all of a sudden, oh, it's Smash Bros. Definitive Edition. So that would just be really weird in the first time that they've ever done that. Yeah, or Smash Bros. Wii U Definitive Edition. So that would just be weird. Oh, my God, look. It has a new Wii U and 3DS Definitive Edition. Oh, no, 4 Nintendo Switch. Don't give Nintendo a 4 Nintendo Switch. Although I do feel that the game is going to be based off of like, let's say like the engine. I do feel it's going to be based off the Wii U. Like, I think they're just going to port that over. I do feel that, but I don't think they're going to create a whole new engine from scratch for the same results to 80p 60 frames per second. Yeah, it's one of those things that I don't think they need to create a new engine. Because Smash itself is sort of, I mean, I know it's been different every generation, but it's kind of sort of an iterative franchise and it's doing like the same thing every time, or mimicking the same thing every time. But in the past, because of upping resolutions and different hardware, it made sense to kind of build up a new engine every time. But even though we use different architecture than the Switch, it's still, you know, an engine that runs at 1080p 60fps, which is all they really need, obviously tweaking it to the different hardware. But yeah, and I actually think maybe that's why it could be a new Smash that we're getting so fast. Because you think about it, I don't think we've ever had a Smash Bros. game release roughly two and a half years after the last Smash Bros. game. Now, part of that is because the Wii U generation was obviously kind of short. That plays a role, because we only get one Smash per generation. But still, the quick turnaround time, it's like, well, if they don't have to build an engine, they can just focus on characters and items and what they want to take. Sorry, Prime, did you say two and a half years? Something like that. It's four years now. It'll be four years by the time that it goes. What? What? 2014? Man, I am getting old. Wow. That's all I can say. I am getting old. Two and a half, it's four years on my bet. Okay, so I take that back. They could have built a whole new engine from scratch. Yeah, right. Look at that. See, I don't even know what I'm talking about right now. I think maybe you're talking about, I think like N64 to Melee. Maybe. That was kind of a closer time period. Yeah, maybe. I don't remember. Wow, that was a big brain fart. And this is the reason why we have him on. Yeah, exactly. He's on the factory at every corner. At every corner, I need it. I need it because my guy next to me, much of what I love is man, he doesn't do any research. I don't even think he read the topic list before we got here. He just knew we were talking about scratch. I did. I did. I read it at work. Okay, did you do any research? No. I didn't work. I wasn't even given a topic list. Yeah, we haven't been at work for last, even here. Shush. I've been playing Casho. Been playing trivia shows on it. Yeah, it wasn't all you were doing. That only takes like five minutes and you get eliminated. Hey, I went further than you did. Oh, whatever. And then we have Darren over there. I have no idea what that guy does with his time. If I'm being honest. Yeah, I'm going to eat the rice, to be honest. Neither do I. So I guess we'll just get into kind of where I wanted to start things off with. And this is obviously talking about the roster. This is usually the biggest deal people make out of it. Last generation, they started selling individual characters. For starters, do you want them to sell individual characters again? Does anyone? Nope. Do I want them to as a consumer? No. Well, yeah. Okay. I mean, I think it's like, I don't think anybody wants to spend extra money. But I would like all DLC free for the rest of my life. Yeah. Yeah, well, do we want them? Okay, let me rephrase that again. Do we want them to add extra characters after the game releases? If they're developed after the game releases. Well, I would assume so. Well, you never know. These days, you know, well, I don't know if the Nintendo. Nintendo did that. I don't know if they did that with Smash 4, but they definitely, or at least they definitely claim they did that with Mario Kart 8. All the DLC for that was developed post game. Yeah. And I would hope that is the case for Smash 4. Yeah. And yes, Smash 4 definitely was developed afterwards, because Mewtwo was the first DLC character and he wasn't even ready. Like they were like, as like, as the game was launching, he wasn't even ready to go and then like they just showed us like, I think at the like the Smash Brothers Direct, they just showed us like, hey, like if you buy both games, we're going to release Mewtwo at some point. They showed some like, like, you know, him in like a 3D graphics engine. So he wasn't even ready. And then all the other characters came after that. There were some big deals. There was a character poll for like Bayonetta. So we had to vote. Yeah, we had to vote. And then she came afterwards. And then like Roy, that was afterwards. All that was was afterwards. And like you could tell like the it was disjointed. Like, you know, I just let you guys know, just going to give you a little bit of background. My play Smash competitively. I'm just lazy as hell. So I don't like to travel like a lot. I don't like to travel much, but I play competitively. And you can tell me there's a little bit of like, it's just so weird because like Cloud and Bayonetta were really good. And like Mewtwo at the beginning, Roy, Lucas, they're not very good. So you can tell like something happened in between like, I guess because like the third party character is Cloud and Bayonetta, something happened between there in terms of like, when they were developing it and balancing it with the rest of the cast. Because Bayonetta is way too good. Cloud is way too good, but Cloud has a really big weakness. So I would hope that maybe, you know, if they're going to develop, you know, they plan it a little bit better. Afterwards, like after the release, just because there was just some really weird stuff kind of going on there. Because Lucas, Roy, and Mewtwo at the beginning, Mewtwo sucked. Those three were horrible. They did buff Mewtwo, but it just seemed a little bit off. That's all in my opinion. Okay, so yeah, I'll throw all of my money at Nintendo if they develop DLC after the main game is done. I want that. Okay. See, I'm on mind that I'm adding new characters after. I just, I don't like piecemealing characters. Like they did it with some stages too. Like piecemealing characters and stages. Charging you like eight bucks. Like this is the kind of stuff that, at least me personally, I've chastised other companies for doing. But like with Nintendo, I can't just turn around and be like, oh, it's cool because it's Smash. Yeah. Nintendo's DLC pricing is pretty good for the most part, but for fighting games like Smash and Pokken Tournament, I really don't think they, I think they were a little too pricey. Well, they know they're going to get away with it. So like my personal feelings are they're going to do it again because it works so well the first time. Um, and they kind of saddened me because, you know, some whenever new characters have been added to Smash, it's always exciting, right? Like, I'm having some pretty bad audio cutting right now. Oh, no. I'm having trouble hearing you guys. I'm sorry. That is not good. Can you guys hear me correct? Like, yeah, you sound fine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just, some of you guys' audio was cutting out. I didn't hear like the whole last like two minutes of what you guys were saying. That is. But not two minutes. Sorry, like a minute. Okay. So I don't know. Maybe it's, maybe it's me. You guys just go ahead. Sorry. Sorry about that. No, no, no, no. It's okay. It's okay. It's good to know when the internet's getting choppy or something. Okay. All right. So I just don't like the piece of me just in general. I've always been against it. I don't like, when you think about it, like for her warriors, right? When that came out, it was $20 for the season pass. Same for Mario Kart 8. $20 for the season pass. Kind of crap load of content. But then you pay eight bucks for a single character. Yeah. That's ridiculous. But they're going to do it. It's like, I have to almost accept it or not by smash. Right. Because I don't want to buy extra characters. So it was per character and per stage? Yeah. If they were to like bundle the characters and stages together, like if they brought in a new character from a different game. I don't care. Not in eight parts. They did. They did. Didn't you, if you bought cloud, you've got his stage. I don't know. There was bundles for, they released bundles. Well, because I went through, this was happening before Smash was announced. I actually went through because I was adding up the total of the DLC. I went on the website and said, okay, to get all of the DLC, it has spent like over 40 bucks or something. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, this really isn't that much content for 40 bucks. It should be almost a whole new game. Well, I mean, it is. It's almost the price of another Smash game. It is the price of the 3DS Smash game. Right. So I sat there and I'm like, I don't know if I really want to support them doing that. So it's like, I like the idea of new characters, but then I don't like the idea of what it could, like if it was a season pass, it was just straight 20 bucks and you just get all new characters they want to release. I mean, yeah, you're still not, you don't know how many they're going to make. Right. You can at least look at the past. They make one. And be like, well, we know how many they added last time. I mean, I'm going to be honest. If just cloud was 20 bucks, I'm still buying. I'd be outraged, but I'd still buy them. You're part of the problem. And part of the problem. I open the, I mean, I'm part of the problem sometimes too. And that's why I like, I recognize that when it comes to some of this DLC and the micro transaction stuff that like, I am totally part of the problem. I will advocate not to do it, but then on certain games, I end up doing it anyways. And it makes me, it makes me wonder if I just need to accept that this, I mean, this is the way gaming is going. So I need to accept it to an extent. But do I just sit back and say, you know what, you only live once. You don't need money when you die. Then again, someone's got to pay for my funeral, I suppose. But you need to play cloud smash. Need to play cloud and smash. Well, one thing I want to talk about, because like adding these additional characters, like how many characters were there in Spanish? Was it 45 last time? 50 default, 50 default. Then like, I think five, Benetta, Benetta, YouTube, Cloud, Roy. Trying to think what the other one is. Lucas. And then yeah, so yeah, five, five. So 55. Corn, also corn as well. So yeah, five or six, five or six DLC characters. So somewhere around, around 50, 55. So, you know, even just hearing that number, and like when I played it, I don't own it right now. But when I was playing it, I'm on 3DS and Wii U. I remember going to that character list, I'm like, dude, this is overwhelming. There's a lot of characters in here. And I guess my one issue with the roster isn't, isn't that there's a lot of franchises representative, like that's too many Fire Emblem characters. No, too many Fire Emblem characters. Too many sword characters. Yeah. That play very, very similar to each other. And then you got Dr. Mario in there for whatever reason. I guess this gets to the point of, are there any characters from the current roster? Because I guess we'll just look at the past games, the current roster. You know, they're not going to bring all those characters back, at least they usually don't. They usually swap out some, but let's just assume that's the starting roster where they're considering for the next game. Like, what characters do we want cut? Do we even want cut or do we just want more? Do we just want to say, you know what, we're at 55, let's get it up to 100. Let's just add everything. I don't want any characters cut. Yeah, that's the thing. It's hard because like, the people ask me, oh, which sword character do you want cut? I'm like, I don't know. You could cut every Fire Emblem character. I would not care. Oh, no, that would be a horrible idea. No, Fire Emblem is amazing. It's one of their best franchises. Come on, man. I know, I'm just not a Fire Emblem fan. There, I admit, there's too many Fire Emblem characters, but I don't know how to cut that back because every single one of them I love. So, OJ's over there is like, dude, I love them all. Don't cut anything. No, I wouldn't cut anything because they cut my main from Brawl. So, I mean, they cut Wolf and I live Wolf. And they cut a lot of people's mains too, like Snake. A lot of people play Snake. The Snake was actually one of the viable characters in Brawl, and they cut Snake. They cut Ice Climbers, which was Ice Climbers was also a very good character in Brawl too. So, they cut Ice Climbers. So, I would like to see those characters come back. I mean, that would be where I'd start from. I'm like, okay, we'll bring back those characters at least. I mean, you could highly doubt they would cut my main. So, okay. What, we fit your inner? Player essence, is there ever a point where Smash could have too many characters for you? Too many characters. No, I don't think there's a point because there's still, like, if you look at what people want, people are still saying like, man, they need to add this character. They need to add this character. I mean, there's no gold in some representation. There's only one character from F-Zero. So, I mean, I guess like what they could do is like, I mean, like let's say you cut Lucina, you know, because Lucina is a clone of Marth. So, you just like cut Lucina. And then you add in maybe like a Fire Emblem, or sorry, not a Fire Emblem, like an F-Zero character, something from the F-Zero world, or maybe you add in one more Star Fox, since they cut a Star Fox character. So, I mean, I don't think that there's ever too many, unless it starts diluting the gameplay, unless you start seeing like a lot of people play similarly. Like, let's say you start getting a lot of like pit, dark pit, you know, or like stuff like that, then okay, then that's too many, like when you're doing that. But if it's individual, unique characters that can, that can broaden the gameplay, and just make it to where like, to where it can be really competitive and fun, then no, I think that this should continue adding, but I don't want to see too many like, okay, like, you know, because they add these clone characters just because, because it's easy to do, and it's either you get the clone character, you don't get anything. They have a certain number of slots that can do for new characters, and they use up all those slots, and then like, okay, we'll just add a little bit more variety, we'll do this, and we'll change up some properties, which is good for competitive play, because some people honestly do like Lucina over like, Marth, like there's actually a big difference between the two because of their blade, you know, like tippers for Marth. If he hits with the tip of his blade, Marth can kill you very quickly, whereas Lucina, she's more consistent. So she's a little bit more for beginners, but at the same time, I mean, she's more consistent, you're going to be more consistent with your kills. So I mean, I can understand them doing that. That's mainly for competitive players, but at the same time, I don't want to see like, a ton of that. So I think to kind of round up what you're trying to say, like I don't want to see it to where there's like, 70 characters in like, you know, 20 of them or 25 of them are like, oh, well, it's just, you know, like, you know, dark Marth and like, white Marth, and like, you know, like, sunshine Mario and regular Mario. 15 different Marth. Dr. Mario, I don't understand why those can't just be skins. It's kind of how I'm looking at it. Yeah, right. Some of them, especially the Mario in particular, like Dr. Mario, as cool as it is. Yeah, it should just be a skin. It could just be a skin, to be honest. Um, yeah, it's, it's interesting to me because I've always felt like, obviously I started way back on the original Smash Bros. I'm sure a lot of us did. On the N64, which I think that character was 8 or 10. No, it was more than that. It was really 12. I was gonna say it was pretty small. I used to be able to name all of the stuff I had, but no I can't. Well, I probably could, but I'll probably end up mixing it in with some other ones. You can try and I'll correct you if you're wrong. Yeah, all right, let me see. Hold on, let's do this right now. Can I, can I name the original Smash Bros. roster? Okay, there's Pikachu. Know that, that was my main. Link, Mario. Okay, before I get to any of the Mario characters, because I can't remember which other one the first should be. Um, Samus. Are you trying to name off all the original characters? Oh, look who popped in. Found me, Drake. What is up, she says. Hey. Little late, little late to the cast. Need some help there? No, I'm just- Yoshi, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Luigi, Mario, Fox, Link, Samus. Uh, oh, dang. Oh, I'm starting to fall short now too. Oh, oh, oh no. Pikachu, Kirby, and uh, Ness. Yeah. Is that it? Is that it? You're missing two. Oh man. DK? Did I, I didn't say DK. My bad. I don't know, did you miss, then you're missing. I thought you said DK. Oh, I don't know. I must have missed that one, because that was my main. The two I think you missed. Wow. One of them was Yoshi. Oh, Yoshi. He said Yoshi, I thought. Oh, did he say Yoshi? Okay, did he say Jigglypuff? Yep, I did say Jigglypuff, but I don't think I said Yoshi. I think somewhere in all of this we have the whole original roster. You guys got anyway, there's only 12, so I'm pretty sure. That was the word. Hey, Martin, you want to go through and just make a mark of everyone that we have? And then, and then if we're missing one, throw it at the, you guys forgot this one. Yeah, right? Yep. Oh man. This is funny too, because like, I'm sitting there trying to name out the original roster, and player essence was going to correct me if I got it wrong, and all of a sudden it pops. My artery breaking. Hey! So, uh, yeah, the original roster, I got this, blah blah blah blah blah. Oh. That's all good. Welcome, man. Try to count me for the rescue, and I still messed it up. That's all right. Nice, nice to have you in here, even though you showed up late. So yes, for everyone listening in, this is, she says from Boundary Bank, back again for the Smash cast. So we were just talking about before that, the number of characters in Smash. Like, is there a number that's too much, or is it just keep adding go lower? Oh, they can never be too much. I knew that, I knew that, player essence. I'm the only, I'm not the only one on the side that there's too many characters. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, basically. You know, it's like, I've always been on the fence where it's like, if you couldn't have every character from the past game, then I would start thinking about cuts. But like, if you can literally just have as many characters as before, and then expand, sometimes double, then why not, right? Oh my gosh. Over a hundo, let's do it. 100 characters in Smash, I'd love it. Yeah, that'd be great. It would take me forever just to figure out what characters are in the game. I'm on the character select screen. Which one are you? I don't think I even played some characters on Smash 4, and I really don't care. I'm glad they're there. You know, I think like, if you get over 100 characters, I think at that point, you should be able to customize the character select screen so that you don't lose track of where all your characters are. And you play your favorites together. You actually want to play them. Yeah, yeah. That would be nice. I've actually lost track of like, whenever like I'm playing, back when I was playing Smash 4 a lot, and somebody would go, oh, use this character. And I'm like, okay. And I can't find the mum. That's just so many characters. If I don't use that character normally, like I forgot where Little Mac was. Yeah. It's Little Mac. That was happening to me a ton when like, every time I'd unlock a new character, I'm like, okay, I know that Little Mac is on this part of the screen. And then I get a new character, and it'd be somewhere completely different. I'm like, great. Five minutes. Give me a second. Yeah, right. Yeah, man. Well, is there a different way they could even have the character select screen be presented to make it easier? Yeah, customize it, for sure. Well, besides custom, obviously, user customization on everything fixes everything. Oh, yeah. But there are these, a majority of consumers are not going to customize everything. Alphabetical. Maybe list the series like Super Mario Brothers, or do that. Or do that. Yeah. And Zelda. Well, it's already organized like that. Yeah, they already group. Well, yeah, but I mean like tabs. Okay, tabs. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, getting to tab territory? I might complicate things. Well, if they could color coordinate my franchise, I don't know if they could. But if they could, you could have each game be like, the background color could be a different color. Yeah, I'm sure they could do that. Yeah. So then they can be like, oh, you need to find this character. Well, you know what game it's from. So just go to that game's color, and then somewhere in there. At least narrow it down your search. I don't know. I'm just spitballing. I honestly don't know. A type in search? Type in search. That's right. Okay, Nintendo, use for your online app, Smash Bros. section, typing character to select. Yes. Attach keyboard at the bottom of your switch. Okay, so OJ is over there admittedly that he plays Smash competitively when he can because he doesn't travel. Good man. She says, what's your history with Smash? I started off with the original N64 game, and you know, very casual play on that. And I would never try to play that competitively. I feel like it's meant to be played casually. Move over to Melee. I played it casually when it first came out, and then as Brawl got announced, that's when me and my friends started actually zoning in and just like playing to win, doing one-on-ones with no items, Fox only final destination. Oh, there it is. I was wondering who was going to say that first. It became a huge deal. I remember like, I thought I was, I was, you know, the bee's knees when it came to competitive play. I was like the best out of my group of friends. And that's what everyone feels. And I would, I would watch like footage online. I'm like, what makes these guys so great? And I would say that on a forum and like, one guy was just like, hey, I live in your area. You know, if you want, I can come over and we can play. And he was like, yeah, all right, let's do it. So I got all my friends there. I was humiliated. I couldn't even recover correctly about him just completely exploiting it. And at that point I was like, I have to keep getting better. I keep have to keep, you know, you know, becoming the best in my area. That was my goal. And then when ball came out, it became really good. But the competitive community turned their backs on it. So I got really good at a game that no one cared about. I was a Wolf main at that point. And then Smash 4, I kept that legacy going. I started actually meeting up with other competitive players in my area. And I got pretty good. But obviously I was never like a tournament winner after everyone got acclimated to the game. But I like to play competitive. Sure. Nice. Okay. So I think this actually helps frame the conversation. Because our two guests, I'm two special guests, they love the competitive side of Smash. They're big into it as much as they can reasonably be into it. I'm on the casual side entirely. Mm-hmm. I have played every Smash Bros. game. I've owned every version of every Smash Bros. game. I hate the GameCube controller. No. So that alone already gives me multiple enemies on this podcast right now. Thank god. Soccer I just released. That's all I can say. Like my number one wish for this game is that they do not allow you to use the GameCube controller anymore. Why? That doesn't make any sense. That makes no sense. Why would you want that? Because I'm of mind. And I know this, so you guys are competitive. So like, I know it's way different than the competitive scene. But I'm of mind that any multiplayer-based game, the default main controller, the best way to play, should be based around the controller that comes with the system. So in this case, it would be the joy-cons. I know it sucks because the pro controllers in my opinion are better. But even if it's the pro controller instead, because it's got the same layout at least as the joy-cons essentially. Just I think more travel on the sticks. I think we can kind of agree on that. I'm just of mind like the GameCube controller is so old. And I like the analog triggers. I miss that. I wish that was a thing Nintendo had kept around. I understand why they don't have it. They're more prone to break than a digital trigger. But come on. How many of us have broken our analog triggers on GameCube controller? I've never broken one. I don't play competitively though, so... Yeah, those things are built to last. Yeah, like they, the GameCube analog triggers are legit. But I like the GameCube controller back in the day. But I'm just, I just feel like everything has moved past the GameCube controller. And the only reason it's still around is because of the melee people. They won't let it go. They literally cannot let go of a controller. They mastered. The melee people. I'm serious. Okay, the melee competitive scene blew up. And then they completely shot all over Brawl, which is fine. They didn't want to get good at a new game. That's basically what it was. No, that wasn't what it was. That's the basic, no, that's the way I view it. I view it as like, I don't care. Oh, they changed this. It's not as fast. It's not this and I'm like... Character balancing and game speed was, and also the tripping. Yeah, exactly. It's a different, it's a different type of smash game. But, you know, what's good? I just, you know, this isn't even really the main point of the conversation here, obviously, but I just want to throw in real quick. I feel like people didn't understand that Brawl was meant to be more of an aerial combat version of Smash Bros. Like, I kept myself off the ground and when I did that, and as well as my opponents, like it was still really intense. It's just you got to keep yourself off that ground, otherwise you're going to keep falling. If you don't stay on the ground, you fall. Yeah. If you don't get off the ground, you fall. Yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, the thing is, this is obviously coming from a casual perspective. I have been deeply embedded in the Nintendo community forever, so I'm constantly around people who play Smash competitively, everywhere. Even on this podcast, even on Twitter, everywhere. I'm around people all the time that are playing it competitively, and I just keep saying, look, I understand you mastered certain grips and certain techniques with GameCube controllers. There's not a lot of very good GameCube controllers even left anymore to play competitively within the first place. It's actually one of the complaints some competitors have. Nintendo, bring the GameCube controller back so we can have more of them. Did they release it? They did. They did for a short run on WiiU. When they brought back the, what is it, the USB hub thing for it. Yeah. So like they had a short run bringing it back. I don't think they manufacture it anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't seen a new one on shelves in a while. Well, now it's past its prime. I mean, like nothing uses it. Well, that's kind of my thing. Like to keep bringing back a controller basically for one game, to me it is just, why? Why can't we just make the current players get good with the current controllers? But why do they gotta hold onto something for $2,000? I don't understand why we have to take away an option. Because that option doesn't level the playing field. What it does is it says, look, because this user is a pro at using this controller, they've been using such Melee, this other person comes in and is trying to play competitively. And I'm not starting to argue that one controller gives an advantage over the other. Besides potential input lag over wired versus non-wired, and you could get wired controllers, that's not really an issue. Right. It's one of those things that, when I see people play competitively, the one thing I hate, I don't know how often this happens, but a couple of times I've watched Evo even, is players using different controllers. To me, it's just baffling. Like when you went to the arcades and play competitively as a kid, everyone uses the same controller. You have the same joystick, the same buttons. So to me, for the field to be completely level, everyone should really be using the same controllers. And I just don't think those controllers should be ones that came out in 2002. Well, see, I would argue that using an arcade stick is like a handicap more than a benefit. The people that use those, they're acclimated to it. Like they grew up playing off of the arcade machines. That's what I say about the GameCube controller. But let's be honest, when you're using an arcade stick, you're using an oversized controller. So you don't really get a tactical advantage by using an arcade stick. It's just a preference. So in the same vein, if you're playing Smash Brothers, nothing technically should make you at a disadvantage for using a pro controller. It's just that, dude, I've been playing Smash Brothers since Melee competitively. So that's kind of like using that game to control it. Well, the same is the game for the joystick. The reason that people like using the game pads is because that's what they're used to. As I said, they're afraid of getting used to something. It's the ones that are often available. There shouldn't be a problem one way or another. GameCube controller needs to die. It just needs to die. I don't want to make this whole podcast about the GameCube controller, but... You're coming from a casual point of view, right? So if you're coming from a casual point of view, I think that would be good to have as many control schemes as possible. So let's say somebody wants to use this inside your house, they can use that, somebody wants to use... Yeah, but everyone wants to use filthy casual. We'll be able to play with split joycons, right? Right? That's going to probably be a thing. Split joycons. Just like when there was Wiimote back in the day. You could use Wiimote nunchuck, you could use pro controller, you could use just a Wiimote with the D-pad. But nobody wanted to use anything but the base controller. Like they wanted to use the full-fat pro controller. Because anyone else felt like they were at a disadvantage using any other control scheme. So even casually, this is like a thing in a house. Playing Mario Kart. No one wanted to play with tilt controls. You know what? All right, hold on. I appreciate your extremist opinion and I'm going to provide a counter one for you. I feel like this should just get rid of items. Like items should not exist anymore because it gives casuals a chance to win. And you know, I don't like that. I'm a mind that competitive play shouldn't play. I'm of the mindset that I studied the game really hard and I don't like the idea of someone grabbing a mega hammer and just killing me instantly. Yeah, get rid of them on those items. I feel like we should just get rid of them completely. Yeah, just get those out of there. I understand your counter and mine is that competitive play should always include items. Oh, my. It'd be more entertaining for me to watch. Let me tell you. And it goes played on a Wii balance board. You'll get no competitive players to go risk money and flights and all that to play with a random sport. Play with a random sport. Well, the thing is I would say if you're really that good, it shouldn't matter. Oh, I could have an instant kill item. You should be so good at avoidance. You should be so good at avoidance. I was the bad guy. Last week, I was the bad guy. Oh, I knew heretic opinions. Here's the thing. When I invited these people on, I knew I was going to be the enemy of this podcast. I am literally losing thousands of followers and they're running off to player essence and they're running off to the bottom right now. That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen. Look, here's the thing. Like the thing about it is this, most competitive players, let's just say Zero was here planning to solve this. He still destroys with items on. Just to let you guys know. He destroys because he destroyed, he destroyed other competitive players all with items on in the 2014 Splash Brothers Open. That thing had items that Nintendo televised or whatever that was at E3 or whatever it was. That was an arcane. Yeah, he still beat everybody with items on. So he'll beat most people with items on or items off. The problem is that people don't want to go into it risking thousands upon thousands of dollars whether you're going to roll a die. That's not how competitive it is. Competitive gaming is built on having a fair playing field and that items are just not a fair playing field. I mean, if you'd want to make it fair with a game, everybody uses standard controller. Items would just make it, that's not fair at all because sometimes an item just appears right in front of somebody and they get an unfair advantage over somewhere else. So, I mean, that wouldn't be good. And like I said, I don't think anybody would want to go to tournaments for that. And as I said, well, my conner, what? My mindset is just like, I keep training. I keep getting better. I get used to all the characters and what they can do and what they're capable of. I study my opponent and what his habits are and what he's going to do. And when that's all just kind of moot because, you know, like a star lands right on top of someone's head, it just like, it takes everything away from that I've been like, you know, training for, like getting better at, you know? Or does it because now you start training for items to be on in the first place? That's random. It's random, but if you train for every single item. Oh, I mean, like, I know what all the items do. You know, that's the thing is you can figure out what every item does and I have. Oh, sure. And I still play with it. But like, in which they spawn, when they spawn, how they spawn, like all those things and what spawns, you can't account for that. Unfortunately, that's just a completely random. No, I hear what you're saying. Like obviously when I talk like from the casual side, obviously I love items just like I love items in Mario Kart. But I also like when I watch, right? Because I watched competitive sports, like esports and stuff. Like and I watch a lot of the Smash Bros. competitive and I'm sitting there watching. I'm like, okay, I see the skill levels, right? I see it. But watching these same players, you know, as they advance and watching them play and watching it just, it looks like the exact same thing the whole way through. And I just get bored after watching the same player play three different players in a row. I'm just like, okay, there's no entertainment value to me in watching this as someone who actually likes watching. So when you're watching it, I'm assuming you're like, it's the same characters. I mean, I appreciate the skill set. Like when I see some perfect grabs and some insane stuff going on, I'm like, okay, I appreciate the skill. That's entertaining when you see a master pull something off that you like very low chance you could pull it off. Yeah, the entertainment from it comes from the idea of understanding the people that you're watching. So like there's one guy who's incredibly good. You know, for a fact, you've seen him enough times, he's like tricked so many players into doing certain things that he wants them to do. And he wins so flawlessly. Now, when you pin him against another guy, who's just as good, who's going to win out, who's going to outsmart who, and who's going to do it in real time. Oh, sure, I get that. So it's like when you understand both players to an intimate level, that's when it gets to be really exciting to see competitive play. Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. To me, it's just like, I don't think, I obviously am not deeply ingrained in the competitive scene. I mean, obviously people that are, they know the players. But I think a lot of people, like when they see these YouTube streams pop up, or they see this stuff on Twitch, or they see it on Nintendo, obviously Nintendo has items on for theirs. But when you see, when you start seeing even some of the stuff up here on TV, a lot of the people watching don't even know who these people really are. They might know one, like maybe they know who Hungrybox is or something because he's been at Nintendo events. But they don't really know most of the competitive players they're seeing. So for them, they might not really get that entertainment value of understanding the ins and outs of what makes us entertaining. And I feel like for esports, like beyond, like even in League of Legends and how much that blew up in the esports scene, like there's some randomness to that as well. And that randomness actually has led to it becoming one of the most popular things to stream in the world. And most popular competitive events. And that doesn't mean there's no skill. There's tons of skill. I get wrecked by anyone who plays at competitive League because I don't even play those kind of games. But it's kind of like that when I, as an onlooker going on, I'm like, what can make Nintendo, like my ultimate goal, this is, I don't know what even the Smash community wants is, but my ultimate goal is that to see Nintendo support the competitive Smash community entirely. Like 100% be all in. Not just with their own Nintendo World Championships, but like even tossing money at EVO or some other events and starting these prize pools up and start, I don't know if they should sponsor players themselves. That might be a little bias, but... Yeah, they shouldn't do that. Yeah, but like, you know what I mean? Like support the events. I know what you mean though. Yeah, sponsor the events, not the players. Yeah, they sponsor some events. So some events will get like, Nintendo will pay a venue fee, which is a big deal. You know, they'll do that. But it's definitely nowhere near the level of, let's say, the Overwatch League. Like League of Legends. Like that, it's nowhere near the level of Nintendo. Yeah, and I want Nintendo to do that. Pretty step-fast and sane. We're not going to pay players. We're not going to put pot bonuses. So, I mean, I would like to see them support a little bit more too. I mean, I'm in that camp as well. Yeah, and I feel like to get to that level, they need to get a bigger and bigger audience watching it so Nintendo knows, okay, this is a massive audience. We can't keep ignoring it. We need to get in on this. And I mean, I was just going to say, I can understand why competitive players would want to see Nintendo invest more, especially when you have some of the other companies that you can contrast with, like you mentioned with Overwatch and stuff. But like, to me, I just find it really exciting that they're getting involved at any level. At one point, especially when Brawl came out, you had lots of interviews where soccer, I was saying like, this is not a fighting game. You know, this is not a competitive game. Oh, you're still going on record saying that stuff. And I was like, what are you doing, man? Yeah, I remember that. I'm just like, yeah, just crap all over half your community. Yeah, right. Right, exactly. I was like, you don't have to fracture your audience like that. I didn't understand. I just attempted to do that with game controllers. You don't have its way to make sure that that was not a competitive game. Anyways, it's great that we went from that to Nintendo now actually sponsoring some competitive events and stuff like that. Like that, to me, is incredible that Nintendo is going to actually start putting their foot out even a little bit. They're dipping their toe in the pool. Like I can't believe it. At one point, they were just like 50 feet away from it. They were like, I don't swim. No, at one point, they're like, no, you guys aren't going to actually do this at all. They're trying to take the pool. Yeah, they were trying to take their pool and go home. They had Triforce Johnson come in and save the day. Literally, it was literally like one or two guys that had to explain to them what was going on. I think it was Evo 2014, maybe? Evo 2014 or 2013, one of those two. I think it was 2014 though. What happened? Nintendo was about to shut down Super Smash Brothers Melee at Evo because it got really big. So Melee came back to Evo that year and on the big stage and Nintendo had gotten word like they were playing it and they're like, okay, whatever. But then they got word that there was a bunch of different sponsors and the sponsors were going to be showing off banners and doing certain things. You know how Evo does it? And Nintendo wasn't compact at all and they didn't want certain brands being associated or they wanted to know about their brands and Evo was like, no, well, no, we're not going to talk to you, whatever. Just like, whatever, kind of like blew them off, I guess, apparently. And then there was like, okay, you're going to do that? All right, then we're just going to cancel this whole thing then. Like no Smash Brothers at Evo. But then Triforce came in who's an ambassador and talked to them because Triforce he owns Empire Acadia, which he's had Smash Brothers players before, like Mewtwo King before. He's had other guys like Justin Wong before then, which he didn't play Smash Brothers, but just Justin Wong is a big GC guy. So Triforce had to come in and let them know, like, no, this is what's going on. The brands aren't doing anything. There's not anything malicious. They picked the brands carefully and Nintendo was like, all right, that's cool. So Nintendo almost actually took the whole... So it's good to see the transformation from that to where we are at this point. It's a long way. Baby steps, baby steps. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I almost felt like the way they used to treat, that they're starting to accept it more. I mean, even we've seen them attempt to push like Splatoon 2 into a competitive scene. Like to see them embrace it a little more has been nice because the way they used to treat Smash and other, any sort of esport that any sort of money involved in it almost felt like... Well, if they're not making it, they don't want you to have any part of it. Yeah, I mean, like I said, it kind of sort of felt like what they do on YouTube, like if you're using our stuff, if you're playing one of our games, how dare you make money on that? That's kind of the way that they still sort of are on YouTube a little bit. There's workarounds. But, you know, if Nintendo figures out the workarounds or I should say the automated system figures out how those workarounds, then Nintendo is going to take away those workarounds as well. Because that's just what they do. So I would, in the same way they're starting to starting to... Well, maybe, you know, I actually had a thought about this as a YouTuber because I did a live stream of the Nintendo Direct and they never copyright claimed it. And I was surprised. They've always copyright claimed every other one I've done. Yeah. So I almost thought, are they learning? Is this a baby step? Or is this just a mistake that got to the filter because now apparently it's an ad on YouTube? The whole directs an ad on YouTube now. Wait. So maybe they decided, oh, because we're going to make an ad on YouTube. We can't just copyright claim our own ads. I don't know. So there's a half hour ad? Yes, 33 minutes. Oh, there's longer ones on that. Oh, good. Forward. Yeah, there's longer ones on that. And there are certain YouTubers that turn on that you cannot skip the long video ones. So if you want to watch their video, you have to sit through it all. Bye. Yeah, and you'll refresh the page to try to get a different ad. And you'll just bring the same ad back up. And you're like... And it starts from the beginning. And because obviously those ads are the highest paying ones, we're like, no, he's going to sit through that by yourself. Well, so much for that. Yeah, I turned that off. You know what would be ironic is if the 22 minute ad was playing off of like a GameXplain video where they're just like, Nintendo announced Smash Brothers. Goodbye. Oh, geez. All right, so getting back into a little bit more talk here on the Smash, we talked about roster sizes. Obviously from the casual side, I view it as too much. You guys are like, no, add everyone. I can't imagine, even if you're casual, I really can't imagine anyone being like, no more characters please. Okay, let me explain this. Bring it on. As a casual player, right? Like when I load up Super Smash Bros. for Switch, which I'm stoked to play, I get to that character select screen and the icons and everything is just so small and I can't tell who anyone is. And I'm just like, where's just the one guy I want? Okay, I found the one guy. I end up ignoring everyone else. And then I start feeling bad that I'm ignoring everyone else because I don't want to take the time to go through the whole day in roster to figure out who everyone is. All the characters have to know who these characters are. I actually know who these characters are. I don't get this because you just complained about DLC so that you're like, well, they should just have the DLC. But now you're saying, oh, well, there's too much. So I mean, I don't know. Okay, let me go to this way. I got to find them. No, no, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. I know that sounded contradictory. I don't actually like the DLC. I don't like that we pay for extra characters. I think it's stupid. I think these extra characters know what they used to be called. Unlockables in the game. Oh, man. That's what they used to be. You're bad and you should show up. So wait a second. Okay, hold on. Let me just recap here. So you want less characters, no DLC, no GameCube controllers, right? Yes. And of course. So I got a great game for you. It's called Super Smash Brothers on Nintendo 64. Yes. Just play the 64. It runs at 60 frames per second. The resolution's not that great, but it says 60 frames. It is 60 frames. Solid 60. That could have been his next complaint. The resolution's too good. So when we play those eight-player smashes, I want to redo them at 360p. Just bring it down, go all the way down with the graphics go all the way down to 8-bit. Just because 8-bit smash. No, that actually would be kind of cool. Maybe you guys talked about what I should want to see in the game yet. Not yet. That's coming up. Because that's been one of my- Sure, you know what? Let's just go into it now. Everyone's already hating it. Let's go to something that maybe we can agree on. All right, cool. Well, it's funny that someone mentioned 8-bit because that's actually one of the item suggestions that I had back when Smash 4 was still kind of pushing out new information. I thought a retro item, I don't know what the item would look like initially, but if you throw it at an enemy, it gimps their moveset and makes them 8-bit or like 16-bit depending on which era they came from. And they just get a limited moveset depending on what they had for available moves back then. Oh, God. Oh, jeez. I think that'd be cool. I mean, that would be cool. Yeah, changing the aesthetic of the character. Yeah, no, that's actually kind of cool. Especially if it's a throwable item and you can throw it at other people to turn them into it. Yeah. Yeah. That would be very interesting. You could also make it a special melee. Sure, sure. Whatever they call it this time around. Yeah, yeah. Daryn, do you have any items you want to see added to the game? I mean, I don't use items, so... I guess I'm just like a non-purist over here, my bad. He's like, make sure they make the no item button really nice and big for me. Yeah, make too hard to get to it. Just make it default. Items are final destination. As far as new items, I mean something from Breath of the Wild would be nice. Maybe a... That breaks after one? Yeah, it's just bombs or something like that. I suppose there's an item. Who cares if it breaks? I mean they all eventually wear out. Yeah, yeah. But something from Breath of the Wild would be nice. A stick, you know what I mean? You just throw the stick from Breath of the Wild at them. A stick, yeah. A way to summon in a gold linole. It's just a shield that you can surf on. Yes. Yeah, if you could summon like a linole or a bokeh-blin. Oh, yeah. Well, that would be... Well, I mean that would be the trophy assist. Yeah, trophy assist. Now that's something I could probably go on for like 30 minutes for. Appropriate for the next trophy assist? Sure. OJ, you got anything you'd like to add, itemize? Yeah, I'm not really too big on items, but I'd actually like to see just for like, you know, because I do play... Sometimes I'll play casually with my audience. Like yeah, just Breath of the Wild stuff, that's kind of what I want to see. Some stuff from like a Splatoon. Some of the different powers from Splatoon. Like the ink bombs or things like that. Those would be cool items to add in. So just any of the franchises that they add in. Once I actually know what characters they're going to put into the game, then I can think of items from each of those franchises that they can put in. But for right now, obviously, like we just know about Breath of the Wild, that's going to be new. And we know of inklings. So just items from those two different powers, assist trophies from those two would be great. Yeah, anything, Eric? Um, items? No. No, not characters. Yeah, I guess it's just being unique, Nathan. It's just going to be us. Let's see, what else? Let's see, what other items? Um, obviously, I'm always up for more Pokemon coming out of the Pokeballs, expanding that. The possibilities for that are pretty much as many Pokemon as they want to create and put in the game. Beyond that, obviously, items from Breath of the Wild's kind of a copo, because everyone else said that. They didn't really say any specific items, by the way. Well, the Odyssey thing. I said bomb. Yeah, bomb. Well, they don't even say bomb. Oh, yeah. Like, there is the, like, an Odyssey. The only thing I keep thinking I want from that is some sort of cappy moves for Mario. Or I guess there could be a cappy item, I suppose. And you could basically have cappy moves out of that. Just take control of the player and then run them off the edge. What would happen if you throw a cappy at Kirby at the same time it sucks up Mario? What? My brain hurts. Exactly what happened. So what's happening is Kirby is sucking up cappy. No, no. Yeah, that probably how it would work. My idea, it was, I was thinking about this the other day, like, because if Mario, or if it was a special item that dropped, right, because what happens in Odyssey, you throw a cappy, it lands on someone, you control them temporarily. So I'm like, okay, so if I throw my cap and it lands on top of Kirby at the same time, he sucks Mario into him. What happens? Then you control the- I mean, you control Kirby with myself inside of him? No, they're fighting games with priority. So basically whoever has priority on there would be the one who wins. It wouldn't do like a- I know, but it's just like in my mind, I'm like, I can't imagine in real life if this like- The game just freezes and explodes. It's just like, you brought the game. The whole system breaks. They're done. You're out of here. Don't come up with these impossible scenarios. So to be honest, I think Kirby would- Kirby's suction power would win. I would think that would have priority over pretty much anything. Probably. Probably. Since it's item use versus base. Exactly. You want me to pull item? A go-kart from Mario Kart. Yes! Right? Oh, man. I was going to say, I was going to say, hey, that could be like- Those things are destroyed by items. That could be like a final smash. And then I'm like, well, wait a second, final smash for who? We've got Animal Crossing characters in there. We've got Link and Zelda in there. Or just Link, I should say. Oh, what's going to- Oh, I'm sorry. I'm like trying to create topics here, my bad. No, it's cool. You're good. You're good. I was going to say, what do you think Splatoon's final smash is going to be? That's tough. I think it's going to be like the jet rocket thing, like where they just- Oh, no, that was Splatoon 2. So maybe they won't have that because I don't know. Yeah. So they're one with the OG inklings. So I'm trying to think about Splatoon 1. Some of the big, giant squid. What? Wasn't there a giant squid? I think- Was that Splatoon 1 or Splatoon 2? I can't remember. I keep mixing them up. Yeah. I was going to say maybe the catfish, like maybe like it just comes out on the stage and just does a bright light and does something. Cali and Marie show up and de-jam the death or something. I don't know. Turn him into a- I was thinking that you get some type of like a weapon blaster because you guys remember like in Brawl or even in Smash 4, like Diddy, he like goes like insane and starts like shooting his peanut popcorn and everyone and you can fly with this barrel. So I'm thinking that they might- I mean, a cool one for me would be like you just get upgraded weapons, you get a better weapon, and then you have like ink all over the- ink all over the map and people are just like slipping around and like you can just kind of swim for a short amount of time and kind of shoot people up, you know? So I would think it'd be- I mean, that might be a cool Final Smash or like final type of thing that they do. Not all characters have like a one attack for Final Smash. Some of them have like a- like they transform or something like that, you know? Or they can affect the arena. So I was thinking that might be something cool for the inklings. I'm really interested in how the inklings like what they're going to do. There's a lot of options. And just even how they control in general, right? Because like when you spray ink, the opponent moves slow on it and is getting damaged while they move on it. But like that's all they do is spray ink all the time. So like how do other players get rid of that ink if they're not also an inkling? I don't know. Like they're going to figure it out because Sakurai's working on it and he has always figured out these complications. So like I'm not worried that they're not going to figure it out. But just like I'm trying to think like I'm Sakurai sitting in there and I have these inklings and I'm like, dude, look at all this cool stuff. They are built to destroy. That's what they do. They destroy and ink everything. Okay, so now how do I not make them OP but yet still make them just as good as everyone else? They would have to be nerfed significantly from their games. What's from the game? Yo, yeah. Yeah, they'd have to be nerfed significantly from it. You'd obviously make it. I mean, if they shoot an ink block and you block it, it's not going to affect you. I mean, that's one thing that I know that they're probably going to do. They're not going to make it towards affect you. But maybe it's almost like, you guys know Olimar, right? Like when Olimar, he has like a very projectile-based game to like he'll throw a bunch of stuff at you like Pikmin at you. So maybe they can do some type of thing like that to where it can affect you that way. There's also a me gunner in that game that you can dress up like an inkling. Maybe the playstyle's going to be similar to that, too. So maybe. I think the ink is going to shoot out as rapidly as it does in the games that they're from. And it's going to behave exactly like Diddy Kong's Bananas from Brawl. Okay. They just slip constantly. And you can cover the entire stage. That would suck. But it's also been done before. Okay. Diddy's horrible because he has two bananas in Brawl. And Smash 4, he only... I mean, thank God he only has one. But Brawl, he has two, which is just the worst ever, which is just horrible. Being in my existence was Diddy and Brawl. I'm so glad they got rid of at least one of those bananas. Yeah. I mean, even one banana sucks, buddy. Yeah. Even one banana is horrible to deal with. I hear you. But Diddy's just... He's a terror to fight. Against a good Diddy player, it's really hard to fight against him. Um, so speaking of like new characters, yeah, it kind of seems like Breath of the Wild Link is obviously in the game. I assume it's not going to be a skin. To me, it wouldn't make sense if it was a skin on Switch anyways. Breath of the Wild represents Switch almost in a way. Just being that launch game, that game that got everyone excited. Do you think there's going to be any new movesets there compared to what Link has been before? So, I... Yes, I do. I'm just going to say yes real quick. Go ahead. I'm just going to say like, you know, I would love to be optimistic. I would love for it to be a new moveset. But like, I feel like if they just straight up were just like, here's Link. And by the way, it's Breath of the Wild Link. I feel like that that's an indication that it's not a new moveset. But I want to be wrong. So, you know, just... We're going to have to... I assume they're going to keep a lot of the base stuff. Because some of that is still in the game, spin attacks, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I feel like maybe like some of the downbeats and upbeats could change. Like instead of a hookshot, it'd be something else for a grab. No more hookerangs. No more crappy hookshot grab. Well, they may have made it better, but I still don't like it. Yeah. Well, I mean, something. It doesn't have a hookshot in Breath of the Wild. I mean, they experimented with one, but never got added. I just hope they make them like a glass cannon this time around instead of like a, you know, slow character. Instead of like, that just sucks. Yeah. There's a reason that I always played as Toon Link. That's exactly where my brain went. I was like, try to not say that. Yeah, you don't want to be, you don't want to be mean to the link. I mean, but everyone knows Link is not very good. I mean, they try to like, they buff him every time to the patches. Oh, he does this, but he's just, his base design is just horrible. Just not a good Smash character at all. Like, I mean, he has some tools, but I mean, the thing is Toon Link's better. I always play as Toon Link. Like, when you go from Toon Link to Link, it's like, okay, control is very similar. My end, Link just gets wrecked. He's so slow at everything he does. Battered recovery. Just, when Toon Link is just so much better. Even though, oh, your hits are less powerful, it doesn't matter. I'm not getting hit as much. The recovery is easier. It's, he's more like, Toon Link's more floaty and like, Link just feels so heavy when you, Link, why do you feel like DK? You are not DK. Yeah, they need a complete retool of Link. That's why I think, I think that's why they showed him. Because people have been complaining about Link being bad for, since like 64. Like, Link's just been bad forever. And like, I've never seen somebody get, like patched to be better so many times and still be so bad. Like, it's pretty funny. Yeah, I mean, my hope is that this is new from the ground up for Link. Like, they're like, look, forget what we've done with him before. Let's just strictly look at this and like, we're adding a new character from Breath of the Wild. Look at what he does in there and let's balance it out. Yes, that would be great. That's what I want them to do. My fear is that they're not going to. It's gonna, it's not going to be technically a skin, but it's basically gonna feel like a skin is what I feel like is gonna happen. Just because I don't know how much time they want to spend on a character that's already been in the game for so long. But it's obviously been an issue. I know this is a casual player. It's an issue. I won't even use him casually if I actually want to win. Unless I'm going up against my kids who aren't as good. Then I'll be like, oh, finally, I get to use this slow character that feels like a DK or a Bowser or something that weighs three times his weight for some reason. Feels like he's got iron boots on. Yeah, exactly. Constantly around the iron boots. Iron boots and magic armor. Just slow them down for some ungodly reason. I kind of get it because they wanted to differentiate it from Toon Link, but still, it's like, dude, it's not that hard. Toon Link is supposed to be floaty. I get that. I'm not asking for Link to be floaty. I'm asking him to feel like the Link in the Games. Link in the Games doesn't feel floaty, but he's a lot more acrobatic than it shows in there. And I'm not saying he's as fast as Fox McLeod with that again. How do we really know how fast Fox McLeod is? I mean, because the games made him quick, of course. But I don't remember him being that agile in Star Fox Adventures. He's kind of fast in Star Fox Assault. Yeah, yeah. He got me there on Assault. But I don't know. I mean, I'm not even complaining about Fox, by the way. He's fine. But I'm just saying, Link feels like he should be a little bit more athletic than he is in Smash, in particular. Especially if he's in Breath of the Wild. Like, dude, that guy's climbing mountains. Come on. He's one of the most important Nintendo characters. Just don't make him suck. He's one of the mainstays on the cover of Smash. Like, I don't know. It always just feels like he kind of gets a short end. Yeah, he does. He definitely gets. I mean, it's tough just because, I mean, there's so many characters at this point. But he's always been so bad. So it's not even like a good excuse. You know, it's not like he's never been that great. I mean, he has some tools, which is good. But my fear is that they're going, OK, he doesn't have the hookshot, right? It's Breath of the Wild Link. But then they just replace it with, like, I don't like that magnetic thing. And that thing's even worse than, like, tether grab. You know, like, I don't like tether grabs. I mean, I don't know how you guys feel about them, but I don't like them. Yeah, I hate them. But that's my thing is I hope them. I like Link. I actually like playing Link, but I hate is I can't use tether grab characters. So I'm hoping that they finally get rid of that. I'm hoping, but we'll see. OK, we have to get into this because we haven't talked about it yet. And I'm going to try to pull Darren in first because I haven't heard from him in a while. How's it going, Darren? It's gone. What new characters do you want added to Smash? Shovel Knight. Shovel Knight. Didn't even have. I knew he was waiting. He was ready. He was waiting for it. I was waiting to interject that somewhere. Shovel Knight for Smash. I was a big Shovel Knight supporter in Smash 4. I actually got into an argument with this competitive player who I used to train with back when I had Smash 4. Everyone's a competitive player, but me and Erica. And we would get into a fight. He wanted, I think he wanted Shantae. And I wanted Shovel Knight. Either one would be nice, but I'd rather Shovel Knight because, I mean, who doesn't want Shovel Knight in Smash? Come on. I mean, it's Shovel Knight. I don't. I can't remember. Shovel Knight wasn't included in that other game, right? The indie version of Smash? I don't. Brawler. Brawler. No, he's not in there. They got the Hyper Light Drifter dude. They got the Guacamelee guy. Yep. Okay. I was trying to remember that roster because I didn't buy that game due to the apparently the online was really bad and that's what I wanted it for. Suppose I believe we're adding DLC characters though, so that could change. Sure. But yeah, Shovel Knight, I'd like to see that. I mean, as far as characters from Nintendo franchises go, besides Breath of the Wild Link, I don't really know. All four champions. I mean, I would say something from Animal Crossing. I may be like one of the animals, Blathers, Tom Nook. I'd like to see Blathers in Smash. Blathers was your first choice? Blathers, that would be awesome. Or Tom Nook. Tom Nook would be cool throwing bags of bells. He's a little more iconic. A little more liked. Yeah, yeah. Let's get Rover in there. Come on, let's get Katrina in this. Come on. Yeah, let's get Katrina in there. We need to get Gulliver. But I mean, I was pretty satisfied with the Smash roster. Phyllis, yes. Phyllis, you know, we get warmer in there or Tordamer. Got some satisfaction though, the sounds like you are. Currently. Yeah, I was satisfied besides the lack of Shovel Knight with all the characters. Shovel Knight's a big one for you, okay. Yeah, Shovel Knight's a big one. I'd like to see, I mean, they got Bayonet in there, but I'd like to see some more Indie representation. Sure. Another Bayonet as a shoe when they come back. They have Bayonet 3 coming out. They already have the character in the game. Eric, toss it out. You haven't taught in a while as well. Yep. You said you had some characters ready, so hit me. Hit me up, we got two of them that I know will never happen. I know all those two. Yep. Banjo-Kazooie and Conker from Conker's Bedford Day. You know what, never say never. Right. I'm saying this because Microsoft's trying to get, like they're building this cloud thing out to do streaming, gaming, like kind of like what Sony does, and they want to get it out to all gamers someday. It's not going to be ready for years yet, but it might hit that point where it does release and it is able to subscribe to it through a switch, and you might be able to play all the older games on a Nintendo system through streaming, which could open the door for that to happen. Not this Smash game at all. Right. But like a one after it. Yeah. I mean, this is also me just really, really reaching and hoping I won them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, great. You like they belong on the roster. They belong there. All the movesets are there. They're totally Nintendo-like characters. Oh, yeah. Even though Conker's obviously a little rumbling. I'm smacking people with frank pants, throwing wads of cash at people. You know, then you got Banjo-Kazooie with shooting eggs and pooping eggs and just eggs, eggs everywhere. And then you got your jump attack with the beak, your dash attack with the poop almost. Yeah, his forward air would be the beak. Yeah, yeah. The beak moves. His down A would be the drill. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, yep. He's like built for it, yeah. Yeah, it's all there. It's like his dash attack would be Banjo swinging the backpack. Yeah, or where he kind of goes down and then the shoulder jab with Kazooie. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's what I was talking about with the drill. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that would work too. Sure. If we're going to be naming characters that we know are never going to come to Smash. Well, you already named one. You already named one, Darren. Tell me that's not coming to Smash. Astro Boy, though. I mean, no one thinks I'm going to come to Smash. Paperboy. I just love the instant mocking by she's an Astro Boy. His moves are perfect for Smash and Astro Boy are mega fast. Yeah, all right. No, I can do that. If we're going to do that, then I want Popeye in there too. Yeah, Popeye from that. Same age. Yeah, same level of relevancy. Astro Boy. That is bad. Yes, that is bad. Yes. What's the third one you had, Eric? What do you got? What was the third one? Third one? Sorry. In the Ice Climbers-esque, the Bubble Bobble characters. Oh, that'd be cool. Okay. Dude, if they can do Game and Watch, they can do that. What would you do for a move set? Bubbles. You just try people with bubbles. Well, your shield move would be perfect. Yeah, the shield move, yeah. OJ, what character do you use? Oh, character or characters? Would you like to add it? Third-party characters that we're talking about here? All of the above. All of the above. Okay, yeah. For me, the number one would be Chrono Trigger. Okay. I really want him in there because I think he kind of just signifies the mid-90s RPG type of life. Sure. Just like what he did for that genre. So Chrono would definitely be in there. I'd want Isaac from Golden Sun. We have no Golden Sun representation. So I would like at least one character from Golden Sun. And then I'd also like, I don't know, what's the samurai dude from F-Zero? I would want him in there. I kind of want a little bit more representation from F-Zero. I want somebody else to be there. Oh, okay. Sorry about that. No, it's all good. Somebody from Golden Sun. So Isaac would be great. And then Chrono would also be really good too. I mean, I would really like that. There's probably some other characters that they could do, but I'm not thinking about right at this moment. Like Wonder Red. I think Wonder Red would be cool from like Wonderful 101. Like another, we already have Bayonetta. So I don't know if there's anything else from there. But I mean like Arms characters like Twintel. I mean, I would like to see Twintel. She's my favorite. She's my main in Arms. So Twintel would be cool. Oh, and probably my other number one would like, I would like Rex Pyramithra and like another blade or whatever. Like I really would want to see that. And that would probably, if I could only have one, it would be Rex. And it'd be, he'd be able to switch between three blades between Pyramithra and someone else. So that would also be another thing that I want. Okay, let's get first. Let's get wrecking crew Mario. I like those. I like the suggestions. She says, hit me up. What do you got? Third party. I'd want Simon Belmont. And of course, Mandra Kazooie. Yeah. I was expected like everyone to be like, yeah, of course. But it's just like dead silence. Well, I don't recognize the first one you said. That's why I was like, I had to think first. I mean like Simon Belmont just makes so much sense. Like I know that we had a Konami rep with Snake. And I'm all set for him to come back. You know, if he wants to come back. But I feel like if Capcom could have two reps and it made perfect sense, you got Mega Man and Ryu. So you got the two best from the Capcom side. You might as well get the two best from the Konami side too. You get your Simon Belmont and you get your solid snake. If you get Simon Belmont in there, you can get a reunite. You can reunite the captain and crew with Mega Man. Simon Belmont. I see what you're doing. Here we go. Yeah. As far as first party goes, I mean, this one would never happen. I mean, he couldn't even be a sticker in brawl. So there's no chance he'd ever be playable. But Mike Jones from Star Tropics. Oh, yes. Nice. That was one of mine I was going to say. That is awesome. I would love to see that. I want Star Tropics to come back so bad. So any representation makes me happy from that game. Yeah. Me too. Unfortunately, the game's director is retired now. But yeah. Well, maybe that makes it all the more likely you would come back. Oh, yeah, yeah. Get that rep in there for sure. Um, let me give you one more first party character just to balance it out. Here's an oddball one for you. Cricket from the Warrior Wear series. All right. I like that little eyeball thrown in there. Yeah, get some. I could take that. I could take that. Eric, what are you snickering about over there in life? I got another idea during the middle of this. They're not actual game characters, but they're fictional game characters. You bring in Wreck-It Ralph and fix it Felix and Penelope. Ew. Why not? Oh, jeez. They did that for Sonic All-Stars Racing Transform. There you go. And you know what? It wasn't that bad. I actually use Ralph like once or twice. So, but it's the guy's parody of Donkey Kong. What's the point? Hey, you got me there. Maybe make him an alt skin. That would actually be okay with that. It wouldn't be like mad or anything. He's just like, oh, okay. Hit him in. All right. What do I want to add it? Yeah. The meh emoji. My kids have been all up on that emoji movie on Netflix. Boss Baby. No, they're done with Boss Baby. Oh, they are. They're finally done with Boss Baby. They were on a Moana kick for a while. I was cool with that. I like Moana a lot. But their parents, they were on that for a little bit too. I like that movie, too. You obviously want David. Okay, so characters for Smash. David Hasselhoff, Knight Rider, for the video game. With the sandwich eating alt skin. Man, you guys took most of the ones I was going to say. I know it's never going to happen because I don't even know how they would do it. I've always wanted some form of representation for Wave Race. I don't know how it can happen. I don't know how it would even make sense. Oh, man. But that franchise lasted longer than some of the franchises that have characters in the game. You want to do the role in the game with the jet ski on the Smash? Like, I mean, I know they can represent it in the game with like a trophy or an assist or whatever. But I actually want them as a usable character in the game. I just imagine like you're trying to move around with the jet ski. Like you're just like hopping. Like you're pulling all your feet up to move the jet ski. I mean, it'd be a pretty heavy character. This is for sure. You really want to do with the jet ski on Smash? Like, are you joking? Are you serious? Yes. Imagine the recovery, man. There would just be like a wave of water for his recovery move. Yeah, I don't get that. Okay. Did you guys see the post on Reddit of the health hazard warning guy? You know, the one where it's like, you know, don't use your- Oh, yeah, yeah, yep. They like made up a whole moveset for him. That's kind of funny. And you know what? Honestly, I wouldn't be that mad if he made then. I'd be a little mad. Well, we must just get the paperclip from Microsoft's old office and get Clippy up in there. No, I know it's a really weird- I knew that Waverist one was a really weird suggestion. That's just me. That's the casual side of me being like, look, okay, when something appears in Smash, it gives me hope there's going to be a new game. I don't know how many times you're going to have to- I don't know how much your casual side can lend to your opinion. I know it's unrealistic to have the Waverist, anything when Waverist represented in the game, besides like an assist rope or something. But I'm like, I don't care. I want a playable something from Waverist. I was going to say someone from 1080s snowboarding, one of those characters. Hop around in your snowboard. Well, you hop around in the games, I'll make sense. Clown character. You think Wii Fit Trainer is going to make it back? I hope not. As an alt skin, that would be good for the Wii Mote guy. I wonder if, you know what, I wonder if Wii Fit Trainer will make it in just as a representation of the Wii era. Are they going to get rid of the Mies? There's no Mies on Switch, so it wouldn't make sense if there wasn't. I mean, there are technically, because you can make a me profile pick, I guess. But they don't really use Mies anymore. My profile picks a me, just because I don't want to be, I want to stand out, you want to be me. It's going to be me. It's going to be me. I could think of a zillion Zelda characters I want in. That's never going to happen. Then again, they kind of did that with Hydra Warriors. I'm kind of satisfied. Hydra Warriors gave it to me. I mean, they gave me a playable tingle. That's really all I needed. Yeah, I think. I still think that Impa has a shot. You think? Okay. Yeah. I think so. Which version of Impa? The Skyward Sword one. Yeah, the younger one. Yeah. Yeah. That one makes the most sense for fighting, although it would be kind of cool to take our granny version. Oh yeah. Kicking butt. Skin. Somehow. Went from Breath of the Wild? Yeah. Skin. Yeah, get her in there. Fights like Bonk. Yeah. Third party character wise. It's always, this has been a dream of mine, and I'm going to keep singing this until the game finally releases. Sora from Kingdom Hearts. I want Kingdom Hearts 3 on Switch, and I want that to be like a big announcement character for Smash to announce it. It's coming to. It's not going to happen. Yeah. You never know. I mean, we all want it to happen. So we're all going to say, it could happen. Yeah. But like. Clouds in there? I know. I know. I know clouds in there, but I, and like clouds are weird because like obviously there's been Final Fantasy games on, you know, there, but there hasn't been, uh, you know, Final Fantasy 7. And then there was some rumors that the remake or whatever would come. But now, god, at this point, people are thinking it's not going to come to PlayStation 5, comes out at this point. If it comes at all, I'm almost in the camp. It's just never going to happen. I think they've rebooted development on it like four times. Yay. I think the biggest problem was like the only thing that makes me think like Sora might not happen is like when you're ready for that, that final smash. And he's like, Donald's goofy. And nobody shows up. Oh, that's right. We don't have the rights. Yeah. I know. And they were, and they work with Universal. So like it's really like a conflict of interest a little bit, but it's also one of those like, yeah, there's still going to be Disney games on Switch though. So it's like, yeah, yeah. I, I think if, if I, you know, my thing is that Nintendo has a pretty strong relationship with Square Enix right now. They even have like project out to pet travelers. I know it's smaller, but it's an exclusive game coming from Square Enix to the platform. And I just sit there and I'm like, you know what, the game everyone wants coming out of them coming out is Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 3. And there's been Kingdom Hearts games on Nintendo platforms in the past. Grand handheld forms or whatever. There's been, there's been. So I'm like, it won't be out of place to have them in any ways. But I would love to see it tied together with the Kingdom Hearts 3 announcement just because not only do I want Kingdom Hearts 3 on Switch because I want every game portable, imaginable. I just, I feel like that kind of game and that kind of character fits in with the library Switch is built for itself. So like, I don't want it to be like a cloud where you bring cloud in and it gets people speculating, but nothing ever happens. Granted, nothing's happened for PlayStation either in that game yet, but I'm going to keep crapping on that until they finally do something. But that's kind of my take is like Kingdom Hearts 3 is for sure coming. At least we're like 99% sure at this point that it's actually going to happen. And I just want this to be, I want this to be like a springboard kind of event where you bring it into Smash and then that springboard is Kingdom Hearts 3 on Switch. And I know, I don't know if that's really even happened before. Because like I know when we got Snake, I think there was the 3DS or something. That came out much later. Yeah, much later. So I kept thinking like we're getting Snake, but Well, there was Twin Snakes on the GameCube before. Twin Snakes on the GameCube. Yeah, I thought there was one console game. So it's kind of like, I don't like using that as an excuse. Like when I have third-party characters added, I don't just want characters added because they're iconic, but they've never been on a Nintendo system. Or like, you know, in a major way. Like when you add a third-party character, I want it to signify that that character matters to the Nintendo roster of characters. Like Sonic makes a lot of sense to be in there because, you know, Sonic games are now all over Nintendo platforms. What about Cloud? Exactly. And that's the thing with Cloud. Cloud was added. And I am stoked because like that's way back, that's that N64 era, even though it wasn't N64, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like it's that same era that we all grew up in or a lot of us grew up in. And it's still one of those things, but it wasn't on a Nintendo system. I don't get it. It's always been kind of this thing that people associated with Sonic. And you know why I thought that Cloud was going to make it? And then he eventually did. My logic is that Sakurai cares about iconic Japanese characters. Yes, he does. I think he does. Yeah, definitely. And that's the thing. So when I think about it. So you'll never see Master Chief, even if Microsoft's like, please take them. I don't think it would be a never. I think it would be one of those. If Microsoft approaches and you could put Master Chief in the game and we will bring the next Halo to switch. That would never happen. That is never going to happen. But you know what I'm saying? Like it's one of those situations where like Sakurai would consider, like as an example, say, I know Geralt's not going to be in some, some other Soul Calibur, I believe. So like, but like if they approach them like, hey, look, like we're thinking important, which are three, what would really encourage us is if you include a Geralt on the Smash roster. Like I think even though it's Western, he would be like, well, I mean, if you can guarantee and sign the contract with Nintendo and guarantee this game is going to be ported, then absolutely. I don't even know if Sakurai would do that because of that. I honestly don't. Well, I wonder what my thing is like Sakurai obviously has a lot of say, but would Nintendo be like, hey, look, like they approached with this contract, but this is like a requirement. You have to put this character in. Yeah, I feel it. Well, I feel like Nintendo. I already did it way too much because like way too many times it like people would ask other people from Nintendo like, hey, can this character be in Smash? And they always default to saying like, that's up to Sakurai. Yeah, yeah. Everything's kind of up to Sakurai. I mean, like Miyamoto went to Sakurai and said, put Pac-Man in Brawl. And Sakurai was like, this character is stupid looking. He looks like a pizza, like a pizza missing a slice. But that was Sakurai's explanation. But what happened? He said Sakurai didn't put him in Brawl, but then they tried that the Miyamoto once again asked him again, like, hey, can you put him in this one? And then Sakurai said, okay, well, maybe we can try to get him in this one. But he wanted it. Like Miyamoto wanted him in Brawl. Fine, if he gets you to shut up. Sakurai said, no, this is like, I can't, I can't do this character. You know what I'm saying? Like, I get it. Now, we got to add Senipede. Low key Sakurai was like, I don't want to make this game, but I want all the credit for it. And then Namco was like, we'll make it. And like, if you put Pac-Man in it. Put Pac-Man in it. All right. But they made the Miyamoto. You figure out how he's going to work. So one thing I want to get to, before you run out of time tonight. Oh, there's one more character I just wanted to mention. Sure, no, shout out. Because I forgot to mention it. Shout out. Pink Wizard Ganon, like from like the original Legends of Zelda and A Link to the Past. With the Trident and everything. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Old man. The old man. Who's next to your elders? So I turned into like an old wrestler. I'm actually really interested to hear about this from some people. Because one of the things I loved most about Brawl and stuff like that was the subspace emissary. Single player modes. Doesn't matter so much for the competitive scene. But this is where you draw in more, like a larger crowd. You can argue it's kind of like, oh, who cares about single player and Call of Duty and blah, blah, blah. But like a lot of people actually do. My dad only buys Call of Duty games for single player. So the ones that don't have it or have a really bad campaign, he doesn't buy them. So I look at it as, we all know that Sakurai got really mad. And that's why he didn't do it anymore. Because people were streaming it and people were getting spoiled. And that's what he says. That's what he says. Yeah, that's what he says. Who knows what his reasons are. But that's what he said publicly anyways. I don't know if I bought the excuses either. Because I'm like really? Like you didn't expect this? It kind of fits in with Nintendo. If we're not making the money off of it, you can't do it. I don't think Sakurai cared about that. Whatever the case may be. Do we want a single player mode to come back? I think even competitive players want it back. I've seen competitive, I follow all the competitive guys on Twitter. You know, and all of them have said, yeah, I want a single player to come back. I want to stream it. You know, I want to play it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that streaming life is like the bread and butter of a competitive player when they're not at tournaments and stuff. Yeah, everyone that I know of, that I've seen, I mean, I've heard the buzz and I've heard zero who was the former number one say that he wants a single player. I mean, I was talking about that with my community. Single player, like, unless one of you guys is opposed, and I don't know anyone that is, I've never met anyone who's opposed to bringing single player back. Oh, bring it back. I feel like it's the one thing that can unite the whole community is like, look, everyone liked the single player. Nobody wanted you not to have it anymore. You just gave us a BS excuse and didn't do it anymore. When we was coming out, like it was still in production, I remember like always campaigning for subspace emissary type, like single player, and everyone was just like, totally lambasting me for like suggesting that I should be upset that it hasn't been announced yet. They were like, it was such a waste of time. It wasn't any good and all that stuff. But it could have got better. It feels that way. I'll just say like, you know, things get better when you try it out for the first time. You work off of that and to get rid of it completely is definitely not the answer. And there was aspects of it that were good. They were really good. Well, the biggest aspect, the greatest thing of all was, you find it like, you know, Smash Brothers brings all these characters together for the first time ever. And when you're just facing off against each other, you kind of, you still feel a little bit of a disconnect. But when there's a single player where there's a story that forces them to ride together, you know, their personalities start to bounce off of each other. And that's when you can really get a sensation that it's like, wow, I can't believe that's all the snakes interacting with like metanite of all characters, you know? So that's what they mean to me. But just to have them in the same fighting game kind of takes away from that a little bit. Yeah. So that alone is why I'd want something like Subspace Emissary again. Sure. And I feel like when you have people like, those people that were like, yeah, bitching at you, I guess is the best way to put it about it. I didn't want to say it like, you know what? I can't think of another word. Um, so like that, I liken those people to the same people today that yell at me whenever I bring up that I want, you know, some sort of backup saves on Switch. Oh, they'll get to it eventually. Don't worry about it. I'm like, okay, well, we don't have it. So until they say they're actually going to do it, I'm going to keep complaining. Mm-hmm. Same thing with single player in Smash. It's like, well, we don't have it. They never told us we're going to get it back. So I'm going to keep saying something until it happens. And it might never happen, which means I might be doing it until I'm dead. I don't know. But like people, I think what happens in conversations like this is like people think that because we really want something that we are acting like we are entitled to have it. I'm buying Smash whether or not there's a single player. I don't feel like I'm entitled to have a single player because that's not honestly why I buy Smash, but damn do I enjoy it. I enjoyed some space adversary, had its faults, but I thought it was a great starting point for what could have been special. Could have been more. Almost, I know that the original Smash was a Master Hand and everything. It was kind of weak sauce, the story, and it worked. But it worked for the time. And it felt like they're trying to advance beyond that now. They're trying to do something new and fresh, give us that story that connects people, and gives us an ultimate goal. And it's one thing, it's odd too, because on the flip side, you have people complaining that Arms didn't do it well enough. Arms is a fighting game, it's all about competitiveness, and everyone wants a better story mode. And it's like, okay, well that's what I want in Smash. I want a better story mode. I want story period. I want a single player that just connects. It gives us a reason to pull in Bayonetta. It gives us a reason to pull in Pac-Man if they're in Pac-Man bag or whatever. Like a reason to connect all these franchises together. Kind of like, I know it's a weak sauce argument in Fire Emblem Heroes, but they at least gave an excuse to have all of the different Fire Emblem franchises come together. So something that makes as much sense as they can make it make sense story-wise, but is also entertaining along the way. I enjoyed the light little cut scenes and a little bit of comedy. And obviously, introducing yourself to new characters and new moves and abilities, that's really good for people who are new to Smash. What are you laughing at? Kirby's new ability is Friend Circle. So I had to. Yeah, I had to throw in the Friend Circle. Where did we just play it last night? I had to. But wait. Just a random shout out. Kirby's Star-Eyes is a lot better than I thought it was. Yeah, for sure. I did not expect it to actually be that good. Well, granted, we only play multiplayer. So my single-player judgment is still out on that. But yeah, is there anything you would like to see them, like anyone, so to speak, on anything you want to see them specifically do with a single-player mode? Oh, sorry, cut out there. Okay, is there anything specifically that any of you guys want to see happen with a single-player mode? Not better than subspace. I mean, I think what they could do is that you could actually, because they have some single-player and co-op challenges that are in Smash 4. Integrating that with the story into the single-player would be cool. I think if they structured it a little bit better and made it, because subspace had some really wonky platforming parts. So getting rid of the wonkiness of the platforming parts in terms of what you're doing there, but adding in some of the cool stuff like the challenges and everything like that, but then putting it into an overarching story, I think that would be great. I think that was probably what they could have done is they could have taken the challenges and stuff that you do, because there's a lot of extra stuff that you can just do in Smash 4, but it's not a story. Just put a story and then surround it with those type of things. I think people might have even been fine with that. I mean, it would have been maybe a little bit up-grade over subspace. But yeah, I think that I would be okay with that. And then if they added in, maybe if they added in some better, I mean, it's hard to get Smash, but this isn't like a true platformer. A subspace had you doing actual real platforming, and it just felt weird at times. But I mean, like I said, I've said before, subspace, I mean, I don't really like it, but I played it, because it was the fastest way to unlock characters, and it was kind of fun to mess around like co-op. So yeah, I mean, it would be cool if they kind of brought something back, but just kind of refined it, made it better. There's like a couple things. One is I'd love to see four players instead of two player co-op. That'd be great. Another thing is they made this weird call to restrict some of the abilities of the characters. And I would like to see that revoked. Part of playing a single player to any fighting game is that you can lab with the characters organically. It's like, oh, you have to get through this part with Pitt, but as a result, you got to know Pitt as a character a little bit better, whether or not you're going to use them. You figured them out just that much better by playing the single player. And the last is, I know that they went with these generic enemies for subspace so that you could reuse them in later levels, no matter what. But I say you don't have to thematically make all your stages match a certain franchise, but at the very least, just make all the enemies from other franchises that exist. Like that's my thing. Like I don't care if there's a Goomba in a Metroid stage, but just make sure that it's like all your enemies are enemies that call back to something. Because that's what Shash is all about. The polygon team. Oh, gosh. You had to bring it up. I did. Oh, man. This is what you're here for, these references that no one else is thinking of. Oh, yeah. That's the only reason you're here, Eric. Yep. I agree with that one. I actually really like those ideas. What I want to do now is, we're going to wrap up the podcast. What I want to end though with is because I feel like for a lot of us, playing a game isn't like it is for some people where you're just playing it, you have a laugh, you set it down, you move on with your life. Games have an impact on us, at least on some level. And what I want to know is, what does the Smash Bros. series mean to us? Darren, let's start with you. Haven't talked in a while. Ooh, Smash Bros. series. I don't know. A lot, one of the best parts about Smash is the hype. The hype leading up to the game. It sort of brings everyone together. I think the series as a whole is, there's some sort of camaraderie. Between, oh man, let's settle this in Smash. I bet I could kick your ass. And oh no, no question, I beat you. So there's a sort of rivalry going on there. It's a game that is talked about a lot online. So even if you don't buy Smash, I mean chances are you're going to join or at least look at a Smash conversation on social media somewhere. So in the aspect of bringing people together, I think Smash Bros. does that very well. And that's a big part of Smash for me, what Smash means to me. But also just, I don't know, I never really play a game and then play it for a long time and get really good at it. I usually just play it, beat it. I'm all right at it and set it down. There's very few games where I pick it up and try to master it. Smash is one of those games where I pick it up, play it in my every waking moment, spare time, and just try to master it as much as I can. Something like Super Mario Odyssey I really didn't do a lot of post-game content. I collected, I think enough, almost to get to the dark side of the moon. But other than that, I'm not going around and trying to get all the moons and all the secrets and all that, not trying to master that game. But Smash definitely is a game where I'm going to be playing that for a long, long time, just trying to hone my skills and play with a bunch of people. Sounds good. Eric, what does Smash mean to you? Oh boy. I haven't really played a whole lot of them. You got about 3DS. I did. I played it for a while and then I just kind of stopped playing my 3DS. So the most I played is the 64 one, obviously, because that was my jam back in the day. So Darren touched on a lot of it with just the camaraderie. And back in the day it was, oh, I can definitely kick your butt in this. No, no, no, I'm better. Or if I lost, I wasn't playing with my character. Right, exactly. Yep. The excuses would come fly in. The friendships would break up for a day. But no, it's just the laughs, the good times, the competitive slash ultra-togetherness of it, if that makes sense. Sure, we'll roll with it. I don't know. I can't talk. It's your explanation. So, yeah. That's what you got? Yeah, that's what I got. All right, OJ. What does Smash mean to you? For me, the competitiveness is definitely there. I wasn't as ultra-competitive in the melee and Super Smash, whether it was 64. And bro, I kind of was, but not really. It wasn't until I watched Smash Documentary to where I was like, oh, wow, there's so much more to this than what I thought. And that's when I got really hardcore into playing competitively was after I watched that documentary. So for me, it's like the ultimate Nintendo franchise, because it's all of them put together, borrowing stuff from all the different franchises, taking their signature moves. So to me, it's like the ultimate Nintendo game, in my opinion. It's like, if you're a Nintendo fan, you're going to at least play Smash once. There's games that some Nintendo fans play. Some people don't play Fire Emblem. Some people miss Xenoblade. But everyone that likes Nintendo plays Smash at least once. All the new ones at least tries it out. That's like the one game that everyone tries out. So to me, it's like the ultimate Nintendo game. That's kind of what it means to me. Awesome. How about you, she says? To me, Smash Brothers is the ultimate celebration of all things Nintendo, their history, new and old. And it's quickly becoming now a celebration of the Japanese gaming in general and the notable history of games from over in Japan. You know, with how the third party representation ended up in Smash Wii U and hopefully how it'll expand and switch, I can only hope. It's really just a really fun way to celebrate all things Japanese gaming, I feel. And the reason why there's so much hype behind character announcements in my mind is because it's essentially Nintendo's way of saying, this is what we acknowledge to be a big deal and you should put all your attention towards this because this is a character, this is a franchise that's good enough to be in Smash. And then everything beyond that is exactly what these gentlemen just said. It's just a super fun, in my mind, a really great competitive game that anybody can get into because of the camaraderie of all the franchises coming together that brings everyone together. And from there, it's just like that. It's one of the best games of all time because of how it includes people and how it plays. Can I touch on just a little bit of just what she just said? It's actually kind of nice because really anybody, even if you have no skill, you can button mash the heck out of this game and still possibly win. So it's kind of nice in that sense too, where you may not be a hardcore gamer, but you can pick it up and maybe kill somebody because you're just button mashing. So, at least there's that. I get button mashing is generally not, you can generally get made fun of for that, but anybody can pick it up and actually stand a chance partially. Especially with items on. It's funny I bring that up after I just took a stand support with items. So, like any game that means something to me, there's always like this personal touch, right? Like Smash has been there throughout my life, dating back to the 90s, and just into the every era of Nintendo. It's obviously always felt like a celebration of everything I love about Nintendo and some things I don't because I don't like fighting games. I legit do not like fighting games. It's just a genre that I have played and tried several games of. It's just not something I really like getting into. You know? I mean the only fighting game besides Smash I put a lot of time into was Primal Rage back in the day. Excuse me here. Like, I don't want to get too emotional here. I've gotten emotional before on certain games because it's not one of those games that's been there for me during a tough time in my life and there's that emotional connection. But it's interesting to me because as much as I don't like fighting games there's just something different about Smash. Not just how it plays. Not just the characters it brings together. Just something about how even as I I'm almost a casual player of Smash but default. I play so many games. I don't have time to be serious about really any one game for a long enough time. Like Breath of the Wild is my all-time favorite game now. And I've only got, you know, I only got 155 hours in it. And I don't know how many more I'm gonna have in it because there's so many other things to play. And when I want to get really really good at something I have to put in a ton of time. But even when I'm not putting in a ton of time every time I pick up Smash and I'm playing against anybody I don't even care if it's the CPU. It's kind of that feeling I used to get when I played Pokemon is I want to be the best. Even though like no one ever wants to be the best. Even though I know in like deep down I'm not that good. I don't care. I want to be that good. And I want to feel like I'm that good. And obviously if you just play against competitive players like if I'm playing online against you guys even assuming there's no lag you guys are gonna wreck me. But like that might not always be the case. I could play against a random. I could play against Eric and maybe I beat them or something. Like like even against the CPU even if they beat me on the hard for some reason because I'm bad. There's that point where it always feels like any player no matter your skill set can play the game and feel good. And just feel good about themselves about even if you don't like fighting games like feel good that okay but this is a fighting game you don't it's only as serious as you want to be. And like I wish I could be a competitor to Smash Player. I wish I really wish I could. And I know it's as easy as just do it and if I really wanted to be I could dedicate the time to do it. But it's one of those things now you know when I when I look at it like I'm a very competitive person. Eric knows this very well. There's very few things I do not turn into a competition. It's just the way it is. I'm surprised on our stream nights when we're doing shots that we haven't turned into a shot competition yet. I'm just waiting for the night when I'm like okay we can kind of get to that point and just go to bed. Haven't had nights like that. I've always said I watch my kids or something but it's still one of those things to me where when I play Smash I those juices are just flowing. It doesn't matter if I'm playing against like a really really good player or a really bad player. I want to win. And I'm going to play as hard as I can to win. I'm going to try to if I have enough video I'm going to try to watch replays of the match like oh say I'm playing it's OJ and he just destroys me right. I'm going to like record it and watch replays and replays of it to like okay he's doing this how can I counter that? What can I do? I'm going to try to figure it out like I'm a pro. I'm not but I'm going to try because I feel like like that's just the way it is it's a competitive thing and Smash somehow even though I know in my in my deepest depths of my soul that I'm never going to be as good as everyone because I'm not going to put in the time it makes me feel like I am if that makes sense. And that's why like even though you know when I'm how I want items is like a person watching it's more fun to watch items in a match and blah blah blah like I understand the whole don't have items final destination blank stages like I get it I get it because I've done it and I understand like that that's where the true skill sets come out and part of it's because I'm not at that level that I don't like it as much because every time I lose a match I'm like a final destination type place you know not necessarily Fox only anymore that's obviously a kind of a mean from what it used to be like um when you're in that moment and I lose my issue is the competitive juices come out so much that I'm going to start studying and I'm going to start treating it like I'm a pro because I'm going to be like no this can't happen and next time I face this person I got to shock them yeah I got to take that stock even if I lose overall say we're playing two stock over I'm going to take one after I they just no damage to me I'm going to take one it's going to happen and I'm going to like put like a hundred hours in to try to like get that to happen and that's partially why I don't why I want items on so much because I don't want to get to that point where I'm waiting I don't want to say wasting my time but it feels like because for me to do that I'm going to be neglecting YouTube when I probably should be sleeping I'm going to be playing smash like I'm going to neglect a lot of things in my life because my competitors tell me no I need a rematch and I need to prove to this person I am not as bad as I was but Smash is like the only game that can do me if I get destroyed in arms I don't feel that way if I get destroyed in Mario Kart I don't feel that way even items on or items off Mario Kart doesn't matter I don't even think Mario Kart is fun without items to be honest it's personal thing Smash without items on can still be fun I admit it can still be fun I know I'm countering my own self from before but it's still fun I didn't even know Mario Kart could turn items off yeah I was going to say is there anyone that can do that yeah versus mode yeah you can turn but the difference is that like like you just race there's no like moves there's no special Mario Kart without items is a very average racer yeah it's a very average we're a smash with this even if you buy items characters have just an array of moves that they can use they have a bunch of specials there's a bunch of different things that you can do even without items on so that I mean I think that's one of the key you know the key differences between the two it's not just whole day and go there's so much you want to race so much yeah I mean some of you say well what about other racing games play go play like a forza then come back and play Mario Kart no items there's a huge difference there really is and I'm not even that in the racing games either but like I've played them there is a there is a big difference just in only one of them has Mario only one of them I don't like racers for the same reason what you just no items with Mario Kart that's not fun no items with a lot of racers to me that's not super fun just to hold down the trigger and play a racing game that's I mean I used to like have the break here and there and yeah yeah it's it's and I understand that there's people there are different shorts and different folks some people do are gonna like that but to me like Mario Kart's appeal is in the items yeah and in that crazy zaniness and I feel like you can still create like we've I'm sure all of us have gotten competitive at Mario Kart with our friends and like we can still be ultra competitive and that's why so much of us hate the blue shower we hate the rubber man at the same time we love the game because these items are in it even though we hate them but we love them it's a love hate relationship oh yeah but that's what makes it fun and it makes it like a like people want want us to do more more Mario Kart 8 tournaments at Nintendo Prime because everyone gets ultra competitive but we're also having a blast while we do it so it's like even if we lose we still had a damn good time and Smash Bros is a game that I think is fun either way I think it's more fun to watch I think always it's more fun to watch I think with items unless you know the players like I like now that I have like I need to see OJ and Jesus go at it and then do smash it and it needs to happen I need to be spectating that right now like that do we need to make this happen so I need to get this connection going I am I am down I am although like the other YouTubers they hate me like Ms. Atee and like I remember I played with them like Terminator they they absolutely hate me because they don't know how to spot dodge so I just grabbed them like like I trolled them and just grabbed them a million times with Sheik so oh nice well I'm a I'm a more offensive player so you know you won't be able to do that as often but if you don't have a shield out then most people I can't I can't away my my weaknesses like if you shield a lot I have a problem because I don't I don't like to grab the opponent constantly I feel like it kind of deludes the game Smash Bros is so like everything's dependent on grabs since Smash 4 Smash Bros is so grab heavy I mean not with every drop just smash in general like Smash 4 that's what some people don't like about it it's super grab heavy but I mean you could still play super offensive and like just you know you can with away shields I mean there's all sorts of stuff there's all sorts of ways you can play and be good you know and that's that's another appeal to the game too is that there's so many different ways to play it yeah like there's not one if you don't if you don't like doing grabs even though that's a huge thing there's ways you can work around that and still be really really really good yeah because there's some characters whose grabs are just trash and it's just such like Pac-Man probably has the worst grab that I've ever seen in my life I don't even know you know it's funny I don't like Captain Falcons grab because it's too often I dashed through that the opponent when trying to grab them like yeah his space it yeah you have to space it correctly once you space it it's actually not bad because it's quick but I mean I mean have you ever played with Pac-Man like have you ever yeah yeah have you seen these guys grab oh my god it is it's like an alien invasion like even like the hit box like the hit box on it is shorter than what you see so like even if you like it can touch them but if it's too far away even though like the little blue lines touch them it still won't grab you just go through them the person it's like it's like it's ridiculous Pac-Man's I even know Pac-Man that was the first like I actually I actually like grabbed so like I was like oh yeah he is kind of oh Pac-Man's in the game I gotta try Pac-Man out even though like it just doesn't fit but then I guess Namco's kind of doing it's all right whatever so like I play a Pac-Man I'm like oh my god I why are you not grabbing people what are you doing what is happening I'm trying to grab a computer player and it's not working what is going on oh I hate that I was like I don't know if I ever play Pac-Man again after that I'm like I know he's fun he's a fun character to play I think all this he has like stupid moves that are fun to do like the hydra like you know hydrating people and like you know like the key like his key is super powerful like he has a little weird gallagant thingy that whoops I mean he has all sorts of he has a bunch of fruit you know like he's a he's a very fun character but just his gravity strash yeah yeah yeah yeah like you know just ending my thoughts on like uh you know what smash means to me smash is like this unique game there have been attempts to make smash like games by other companies obviously PlayStation All-Stars is the most well-known one and that failed for its own various reasons we're not going to dive too deep into that today but Nintendo found something or you know maybe Sakurai and a lot of found something with smash that just resonates I think throughout all of gaming I think even as like if you love Sony and love Xbox or PC you know what smash is you know what's going on you you wish that that was a game you could play on the platform you're playing that you like to play on because you know like she says to me about how it's like a celebration of Japanese gaming I think a lot of people just view it as a celebration of on the whole yeah until I know we haven't had a lot of Western characters there hasn't been a single yeah Western characters have been kind of one of those you know not even UK or anything it's just all Japanese yeah it's been all Japanese and you know to an extent understandable when it's made in Japan and it's Sakurai and we all know his personal taste or at least we think we know we all know it's a big xenophobe yeah take me know his personal taste or whatever the case may be and then there's also like when you are a smash fan and you've been following it for as long you also get like this I almost get this extra appreciation when the stories come out of like Sakurai like sacrificing his own health to make the games because part of it is almost his own stubbornness because he doesn't trust anyone else to balance characters and then when that happens and you're like yeah but this character isn't balanced maybe you should have let someone else but but it's like I don't know I see I don't believe that you I think you just threw him Pilates one day and he like hurt his wrist he had a chance to like pretend like spin it as a thing like he's just working nothing to do with some weird claw grip he probably uses or anything he was testing out Wii Fit Wii Fit Trainer moves he was researching for Wii Fit Trainer and he just destroyed his wrist and said yeah it's from it's from me balancing the game what I didn't tell you is I was trying to do the moves in real life and uh that's how I hurt myself we're on to you Sakurai but like I feel like with stories like that come out embellished or not it still just makes fans even more connected to the game she's like okay this guy's like giving everything he has even when he has told us that he doesn't want to make him anymore he still does it and still gives everything he has into it like you don't ever feel like he necessarily regrets making the games I'm sorry I was just going to say that that was another thing where I was like you're full of crap yeah that's the thing like it's so weird here because he'll talk so passionately about Smash like you could tell he loves the series but then he's also like I don't want to make it anymore where I'm constantly hurting myself like I remember there was an interview it was with high gn he said like I'm not making any more smash games I think I'm done after this and then like the interview was like oh okay what what characters did you work and weren't able to make into brawl since uh you're retiring and his response that was like well I mean if I do come back I gotta make sure I don't tell you okay well and I saw all that confident I was trying to give him a pass and then he gave back for Wii U yeah I was trying to give him a pass because I figured you know what the reason he was coming back was Iwata right I kept thinking him and Iwata are super tight they came up in the industry together Iwata made like Smash Bros even possible with reprogramming and all that stuff and like legends at hell coming up so I kept thinking okay well yeah he doesn't want to do it but he knew in the back like I kept thinking at that interview he knew in the back of his mind if Iwata asked him to he's doing it he's not gonna tell say no to Iwata it's basically like I felt like he he almost felt like he maybe owes Iwata that that debt of gratitude for their friendship and them coming up together so I always felt like yeah he doesn't want to do it but he's doing it because of Iwata but now I don't know because like Iwata's gone sadly and he's still doing it and then like part of me is like well the emotional side and he's saying he's doing it as a dedication to Iwata but then I'm like no maybe like how many excuses am I gonna give this guy for continuing to make Smash when he says he doesn't want to make it anymore the paychecks are pretty good he's able to not do anything for like paid very well those paychecks have to be fat yeah the paychecks are real I think the paychecks are pretty good one of the person will be like look I don't I'm not even I don't even work at Nintendo but I get the biggest paycheck of everyone at Nintendo I know Sakurai's handsomely paid and Nintendo doesn't disclose how much they pay their you know they're he's a contractor so yeah Nintendo doesn't disclose but I'm pretty sure it's royalty based along with based salary as well I'm sure it's gotta be lucrative and Nintendo I mean he's like so important to the Smash series that you know they're gonna give him what he wants as long as it's it's gonna be profitable in my opinion I mean I don't I don't think it's a bad deal I know he says he keeps think it's I think I think there's something deep down inside there's always something that he can find you know some type of way like feel like new challenge you know now you have Nintendo I don't think he can pass he could he could pass this opportunity up considering you know I mean look at most of the systems that he's made Smash Brothers on right they've all been pretty much relatively you know not necessary to the best selling right all the systems I mean 3DS was good but I mean like Smash Brothers Brawl was the only one that really sold like you know with the Wii the Wii sold a lot like all the other systems were kind of low so I mean like you have the switch is super popular I mean maybe it's a new challenge for him you know well and I also think like when he says he doesn't want to make Smash any more I don't think I don't think it's that he doesn't really want to do it I think that he's got ideas for other games he'd like to do that he feels like he can't get to because of Smash and I say this because I know there are two completely different people but like I followed the Zelda series so closely over the years when I was at Zelda Informer Aji Anomu voiced that he didn't want to make Zelda games anymore because he has ideas for games he wants to make that aren't Zelda that's basically it it's not because he doesn't love Zelda or wants to keep doing it but he can't do his other games as long as he's doing Zelda and yeah there's been talks that maybe he's setting up the team and getting to some of these directors to step up so he has to do less and less that's fine and maybe he'll get to he's setting it up to maybe get to that point Nintendo's probably gonna let him do it eventually but it's one of those things where I almost feel like maybe like sacrifice this independent contractor so he's not beholden to anyone he has to force himself to stop doing Smash to have the time to do what he wants and I don't know if I don't really know like is it really big enough to do anything on its own? it's essentially nothing it's essentially when he when he feels like working he hires some people he has a company name and LTD but it's it's essentially something like if you want to do you have more money than God probably at this point well maybe not quite that much okay you're not up in the Bill Gates territory Nintendo's not even up there but it just feels like I don't I just get this feeling that he wants to do something more and I don't know oh he does like I'm worried about like what's going to happen yeah yeah Kid Ecker he he did he did that that was great but I'm sitting there and I'm like I guess we'll end with this how much longer do we think Sakurai can realistically just keep making Smash games? I think he's just going to keep making them and I was just going to say I think that the whole thing where you keep saying like oh I think this is my last one Kojima did the same thing with the Metal Gear series I think it's like a Japanese way of being a hype man you know like you say it's your last one and everyone has that expectation it's like oh no he's not going to make another one that's no that's awful and then when he does say like I'm coming back that's when everyone's like yeah I think it's just a hype hype thing hype thing could be I also think it's also a Japanese thing too you know Japanese people when it comes to certain like they stay at a company you're supposed to be dedicated this is one of the life a long time you know like that's just kind of how the culture is too it's like even if you don't want to do something you do it anyway you know what I'm saying and like there's some things that are acceptable they're like sleeping on the job sometimes when you're like they show sign that like you know that you're working hard you know like if you have a long work day like they they allow that so there's just certain things I think culturally too that are kind of in play he says oh yeah I don't want to do anymore but deep down he's like this is what I you know this is this is what I do you know this this this is who I am so I think there's there's some maybe maybe a bit of a bit of inner inner turmoil a little bit a little bit where it's like this is what I do this is what I love but I kind of want to do something else but I don't really want to stop what I love and these pay paychecks are fat and Nintendo's gonna want me around as long as I want to do it is if my is my hand and my wrist really that bad well okay is when I'm going to stop doing it when I can no longer pick up a pencil I what you know this thing has the greatest summer break ever too I mean this man's summer breaks are like two three years I mean yeah yeah dude two three pretty he I'm sure he enjoys his life that I don't think that's a problem columns he gets the right performance oh yeah casually you know this thing if you worked at Nintendo that's never happening but like he's on his own he's like yeah I can do what I want oh I want it it's probably about Smash what are they going to do fire me like I could say anything I want I mean I know they try to put restrictions on him but as an example if he just tweeted out the entire roster for this game tomorrow just out of nowhere think Nintendo's going to fire him for it that wouldn't be good no it wouldn't I'm not saying he's sure but I'm I'm saying like I feel like that's the power he has with this series is that like that would be the most disrespectful like that would be that would be very bad that would be bad especially ruining all of the big new announcements or whatever like it would be bad yes I'm not saying he should but I'm just kind of put that in frame of this is how much power he has with this franchise he was like you know I'm doing this dojo whether you like it or not I hate it I don't don't Nintendo games ever had that level of interaction with I'm including Kid Icarus Uprising as a playable game inside of the Smash whether you like it or not you know he pretty much he's pretty much said that with the the whole demo thing yeah I mean who knows who really knows if that was him that came up with that idea or someone hit Nintendo sure you know all right well we're gonna wrap up the podcast right there I want to thank our two special guests this week of course Eric get out what you have to say that you've been giggling like a schoolgirl I will wait till after this is the perfect way to end the podcast so we'll get the we'll get the it doesn't feel so perfect no no no it will trust me we'll get through the all right all right potions and stuff like that I mean that's something on his mind yeah yes he does he has a way he's been giggling about it for anyways um I want to thank obviously OJ for player essence for stopping by I know you're usually busy during the week but uh thank you for making the time hopefully we'll get to do it again someday we'll see we'll see absolutely man see the schedule those great being on you guys are awesome yeah do you have any uh upcoming content you want to kind of throw a shout out to for people to look for oh yeah I mean if you guys aren't really sure as far as what my channel yeah I don't know how many of our how much crossover there is I'm a nerd I like to play video games I like to talk about games I like I mainly cover Japanese gaming RPGs like Final Fantasy Kingdom Hearts I cover all that Valkyria Chronicles so if you're if you're really into that type of stuff you're really into Nintendo Japanese RPGs Japanese gaming I cover that a lot I do like at least three or four videos a day I do live streams as well where we get the community involved every single day so it's a lot of fun really passionate community it's also kind of like anime themed as well so if you're if you're into Naruto if you're into anime it's kind of themed off of that as well in terms of some of the stuff that we say the lingo and things like that so it's like it's a great community we have a lot of fun so yeah if any of you guys are interested to come on over to Player Essence it's right here on YouTube just type in Player Essence you'll see my channel here you'll see my anime my anime avatar so it's right there yep and we'll link down to his channel maybe his latest video at the time this podcast goes up and then also his Twitter handle as well if you would like to follow him on Twitter and then obviously she says better know for some people as boundary break if you watch his channel go check out Player Essence man I'd rather everybody go check out Player Essence and subscribe to this channel right here no no no your channel's good too man no thank you but yeah seriously I guess real quick I just do I look at games from different perspectives if you want to see a year game that you I probably covered on the channel at this point seen at a different in his whole new way maybe find some new discoveries you should check out my channel but uh but yeah first and foremost Player Essence and this channel right here subscribe to this channel that you're listening to at this very moment I just subscribe to your channel I'm like I need I need I need like 30 percent of your subscribers just subscribe to my channel I'll be good yeah right I won't even take 30 percent can you give me like 10 percent can you give me I guess seriously can you give me like five or ten percent when this podcast goes up when this podcast goes up you're going to spam your community post section right just just go subscribe to my channel just put it up a video and be like sorry guys some of you have to go here's the deal boundary breaks and close doors got a new dad now it's Player Essence you want you want the next boundary break video get Player Essence to 50k yeah there you go there you go there you go that would be great my video is in the answer yeah yeah that would be great I just realized I just realized how great your channel is I just subscribe and I'm just realizing how amazing your channel is thanks no it actually looks it actually looks pretty interesting I just subscribe right now oh dude yeah so like for people who have never seen a boundary break if you do a Japanese RPGs I recommend the Chrono Trigger episode the Final Fantasy 7 episode I see that I saw that right out of the corner of my eye I see a Final Fantasy episode of that every I watched it yeah like if no one's seen a boundary break episode before like when he talks about like angles and things you haven't seen like think boundary break breaking the boundaries he will like pull the camera out and like explore parts of the levels that you could never see on your own generally unless you also know how to glitch things and yada yada like like looking inside objects and seeing if there's anything in there was it is it a 2D sprite is it a 3D model like just figuring out how these games were put together basically in these stages and finding the interesting stuff and that's what he does and it is so and I've been watching that content for so long I remember I remember when Darren because the only reason I even have a contact with you because there was Mr. Darren over there out of nowhere I'm like dude everyone bailed on the podcast we need someone he's like hey I'll ask the boundary break guy I'm like you know him I think I was the first one to feature his website probably and that was the thing like a lot of the YouTubers that I even I have contact with was like Zelda Informer Days I featured your videos and you liked it so like you got hold of me but it's just a whole different perspective now because now I create content and man I love everything that that that boundary break guy over there puts out it is so great so unique and it's just like like player essence like when I watch like your your PE news and and also like you just have such a personality about the way you present things it's great I love it it's why I tune in because you are different than me you're different in Spawn Wave you're different than all the other cats out there that that do somewhat similar but different things and your live streams are lit the live streams are crazy yeah your live streams are nuts because I almost have no filter for the most probably now trying to control myself but um yeah I just kind of pop off at times for mainly for entertainment but you know yeah well there's moments too like my my live streams are known because like people super chat and then we'll do shots right like it's just it's almost like an etiquette thing but not not really it's different and people like watching slowly my filter degrade as the night goes on because like I have a permanent filter because I have children and like I used to work like a job around like after school program like I just don't swear that much I just don't do inappropriate things that much but then like as the night goes on it's like okay I'm starting to feel like I'm 21 again and it's my first night being hammered and things are just going to happen right now it's I think people just love that aspect of it and while I'm doing that I'm playing games and some games I just get demonstrously worse at other games like Splatoon 2 I go from the worst player to passable it's weird I don't know how maybe because I get that the beer goggle vision and it just improves because I'm a squid or you're seeing like four directly aiming at the correct one exactly I don't know it's crazy but like that's the thing we all provide like this unique thing on YouTube and I'm glad we got to come together on a podcast like this it's one of my favorite you know I say this every time we have guest signs always like my favorite podcast ever because I love bringing YouTubers together and just talking about something we love Smash Bros even as much as I want the GameCube controller to die even as much as I want the roster to trim down even as much as everyone in the world hates me because I have bad opinions we're all still here having fun thank you guys for tuning in as always Eric Moore and Darren as well with us almost as always for Darren always for Eric you guys can follow Darren at real Darren you can follow Eric at Emo is it 90 87 nope 87 97 90 I'm gonna get it one of these weeks follow myself at ninty prime I'll just say that one don't worry about my other Twitter handle it's irrelevant you could follow see if I can get this at the top of my head you can follow she says at boundary break yep yep I got that one that one was that's an easy one okay player essence I can't remember if it's at player essence or if it's just stop just stop did I get it yeah just at player essence just at play see I'm the only one that's not at at the name of my channel yeah because someone else owns the Twitter handle they don't even use it but they own it it is what it is look at that now now Eric you are you signing this out can I can I end the cast now you do it okay so we're going back to something that OJ said in how Sakura I find away I got a new new character you gondon knuckles and Sakura will find you a oh god get at everybody that's seriously you're on my foot oh that hurt really yeah but that's my fault wow I can't believe that's just how we just ended it I almost feel ashamed to put this up now yeah you gondon knuckles