 I'm Mark Shklav, the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program. Today, we're going across the Sea of Time to talk with Hawaii lawyer, Greg Louis Kwan. Greg is a personal injury lawyer who has been practicing law in Hawaii for about 40 years and has helped many clients and their families over the years. I've asked Greg to talk about his own family today, to talk about his ancestors who came across their own rough seas to Hawaii and explain why, as he recently told me, he is proud to be Ukrainian. All right, welcome, Greg, how are you? I'm doing fine, thank you very much for having me on the show. Well, I'm very interested in hearing your story and your background. You told me you're proud to be Ukrainian. Well, first let me ask you, why are you Ukrainian? Explain that, what's your Ukrainian heritage? Why do you consider yourself to be Ukrainian? I consider myself to be Ukrainian because my grandmother migrated from the Russian Empire in years prior to the 1917 revolution from Kiev. Ethnically, my grandmother was white Russian or ethnically, she's from Belarus. But she lived in Kiev with her husband and her two young children before she was forced to leave. Okay, so you've kind of adopted the Ukrainian heritage? Yeah, sorry, go ahead. Yes, I have, ever since the invasion started, I think on February 24th of this year, six months ago, I had previously identified myself as Russian because that's how it came across to us and technically speaking, Kiev, although it was part of Ukraine, it was part of the Russian Empire for 250 years until 1917 and then from 1921, it became part of the USSR and remained so until 1991. I don't identify with being Russian nor do I identify with being Chinese so much, although those are my genetic background and all, because I'm so happy to be part of Hawaiian and living in Hawaii and being part of the United States. I'm very proud to be an American citizen and I'm so much happier here than living in the evil empire of Vladimir Putin and everything that is trying to do in my grandmother's homeland to all of her relatives. Well, let's talk a little bit about your grandmother and I guess, and then we'll, well, you're proud to be Ukrainian. Why are you proud to be Ukrainian right now? At this very moment in time, I am so proud to be Ukrainian because my grandmother's countrymen are fighting for their independence, freedom and for democracy. There's nothing short of what's going on in Ukraine than a proxy war between the forces of the talentarianism and I hate to be so political and blunt about that, versus the force of democracy, as defined by the United States, the native countries, the suits being native countries of Finland and Sweden and my grandmother's close neighbors, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. And yeah, I feel very strongly about this and it hurts me. I think about this every day and my grandmother's countrymen have fought incredibly well to have survived as a country. I'm just totally amazed. So you are proud of what the Ukrainians have done and that heritage or that background, you are adopting, you're saying, hey, I like that and I want to be part of that and I want to recognize that. That's what I hear you say. That is correct. And not only have they managed to perform incredibly well and conduct incredible resistance, but they have reached out to the United Nations and across Europe and across the world to grant support. And it's really amazing to me that my grandmother's countrymen, after only 31 years of independence, they know what they want and they will need to fight for it. And it's not surprising given the history, but I don't want to go back and talk about the founding of Kiev and the Kievan Rus and the invasion of the Mongols in 1240 and all that, but they've been through a lot and apparently they have learned a lot and they know what they want and they're fighting for it. And I feel, I don't mind paying 10 dollars a gallon for gas if it means that we can support my grandmother's countrymen in their fight for independence and freedom. Okay, well, the other thing is you seem awfully proud of your grandmother. And tell me a little bit more about her. What about you? Now, who was your grandmother? What made you, what makes you proud of her? It's a very difficult question because of all the tremendous that my grandmother endured. She was very reluctant to speak to her children. And, but I'll tell you what she endured. In the years before the Russian revolution and I don't have a precise fix because I don't have her immigration papers, but she traveled by train at the distance of the entire Russian country which is the largest country at the time, 4,500 miles from Kiev to Harbin, which is in China, then to Vladivostok, which is a Russian port on the Pacific. And she traveled another 4,500 miles before she was forced to get off the ship because her daughter was sick and needed attention in Hawaii. Otherwise she would have ended up in San Francisco. So my grandmother traveled 9,000 miles seeking freedom and peace. And this is over 100 years ago. But why did she have to leave or why did she feel she had to leave Ukraine? What prompted that? And was there something going on with the family or what happened there? Let me give you a little bit of background. My grandmother was married to a lower lower level bureaucrat in the Tsarist regime. And the Russian Empire, which ended with King Nicholas, I'm sorry, Tsar Nicholas II ended in November of 2017. Her two brothers, my grandmother's two brothers were groomed to also join the Tsarist regime and they had been sent to Istanbul for education. On the way back from Istanbul, the Bolsheviks murdered my two, my grandmother's two brothers. And she and her husband, although he had a good job with the Tsarist regime, decided that they didn't need to leave Russia or the Russian Empire, they're from Ukraine. And so she gathered her two children, my aunt Nina, who was three and her son Sasha, who was one. And she got on a train. I suspect their arrangement's made because there are several things that needed to happen along the way. She ended up in Vladivostok. And when she got to Vladivostok, she learned that her husband had been killed. And so she left the widow, headed for the United States. Her son took ill, died before the ship got to Japan and she had to burn in Japan and she hit it with her daughter, my aunt Nina, on the cross specific towards San Francisco. You know, I'd like to show a photo of Anastasia, that's your grandmother. Anastasia Salamarkin is my grandmother. And the other, in this photo, the young girl? The young girl would be a few, and this picture was taken in Hawaii because obviously my aunt Nina, I had grown at least a couple of years before this picture was taken from the time they had traveled. And that's a picture, and I don't have a date on that picture, unfortunately. That's my grandmother, Anastasia Salamarkin. She was a stage actress in Kiev before she left the country. And my aunt Nina died in the 1950s. I knew her briefly while I was a child. Okay, so that would be, okay, so that's a photo of when they arrived in Hawaii or about the time when they arrived in Hawaii, but I wanna put up a map also. You talked about her travels. So way over on this map on the left-hand side is Kiev. Okay. And on the far right-hand side is in China, Harbin, and then Vladivostok, which was still part of Russia, I guess at that time. So that is where they traveled. That is where she traveled with Nina and Sasha. Is that right? That is correct. My train, is that correct? Yes, Harbin was a major, it's like Chicago in some respects. It was a major center of transportation by train and railroad. And it's also, I understand, an inland port, one of the few inland ports in China. And from Harbin, she traveled on to Vladivostok, another 320 miles or so. It's about 4,200 miles from Kiev to Harbin. And she might have gone to Kazakhstan, I'm not entirely sure which train she took, but the route would take her through several different countries. Okay, so, and then they got on a boat and Sasha died on the way and... Sasha, Sasha, I'm not sure when he got sick, but before they reached Japan, he had gotten sick and passed away, so she had to bury him in Japan. And then they went on to Hawaii. Right. But what happened with Nina? Nina also took ill, and I'm not sure how long the journey would take by ship back a hundred years ago, but Nina got sick and the boat stopped in Hilo, my hometown. And my grandfather, who was a doctor, Len Kitt, had a Russian midwife and he provided medical services to the small Russian community there. When I went to school, elementary and high school, there were several kids of Russian descent, Kufrovich and some others families I had married into Portuguese families. There was a Penova after, there are a few Russian names that I remember when I was in grade school in Hilo. That's very interesting that there was a Russian community in Hilo. I never heard of that and kind of interesting wondering how that happened. But so what happened to Nina? I mean, so Dr. Len Kitt treated Nina and ultimately married Anastasia. But what happened to Nina? What happened to Nina? Nina, my grandfather and nurse Nina back to health and my grandfather and my grandmother, I got married and he had five children. The fourth and foremost, my mom, Valentina. Okay, well, we have another photo of Anastasia and who's in this photo? Okay, and again, I don't know the date of this photo, but let me start from the far right because that would make more sense. That's my auntie Nina, she had red hair but it shows up as blonde in this photo. Next to her is the eldest daughter of Anastasia Salamarkin and Dr. Len Kitt, my auntie Marie and then of course this is my grandmother, Anastasia Salamarkin. She might well be pregnant with her fourth child, my auntie Anna, but okay, so to her left and on the left side of the picture is, I'm sorry, I took that back. Second from the right is my auntie Ida and on the far left is my auntie Marie. Sorry about that. Okay, and so she already, she started another family and obviously there was some love and relationship with the doctor that saved Nina. So that's kind of a romantic story actually. Yes, and the reason my grandfather's not in his pictures not because he was disaffected from his wife, although there was some tension because he was a Chinese guy and she was a Russian woman and so there'd be some cultural differences that they don't wanna get into. But because he was Chinese and a medical doctor, he did not allow his picture to be taken. So I don't have an image of my grandfather. And about two months ago, as I was researching this for another family project, my oldest cousin, first cousin, Snooki, who's 91 now, the only child and daughter of my auntie Nina tells me that her mother was not able to get any information from her mother about the circumstances under which she left Russia. We only found it out because of the Russian midwife who worked for my grandfather, told my mom and my oldest brother about information that she had from my grandmother. And that's the only reason I have stories about my grandmother. Okay. And so you've been, you know, I guess this, the current events in Ukraine has made you more interested about your own family background, you know? Yeah, it has. And you've done the research on your grandmother Anastasia. She had a tough life. I mean, she lost brothers, she lost her husband, she lost a son and she eventually got to Hawaii. Sounds things seems to get better here in Hawaii. I mean, that's a good sign. I mean, that's what we like about Hawaii. But I mean, what have you learned and what can we all learn about grandmother Anastasia's life story? Well, I have not only studied my grandmother's history but I've also studied the background of the Kivon Rus and things like that. But let me, I'm sorry, let me answer your question directly. I think one thing we can learn is that the United States for over a hundred years has been a beacon of hope where people will travel long distances to live in freedom and enjoy democracy. And I'm not sure why my grandmother chose to travel to the West Coast of the United States because many other people traveled across Europe and ended up in Canada. Canada has the largest Ukraine population outside of Ukraine. But from her perspective, she was seeking a better life. And I'm only 25% Hawaiian, half Chinese and quarter Ukrainian. I think Hawaii as well as the United States are countries or places that are largely populated by immigrants and immigrants have helped to build our country. I don't wanna get too much into my dad's side of the family who's my grandfather was a bridge and road builder in Hilo and also was a member of the Kuomintang Party and returned to China in 1928 to fight the communists. And it's kind of ironic. Mark, I wanna share something personal with you. As a young guy from age 21 to 25, I was a left and radical. And since then, I've become kind of quite a bit more of a model. It's still quite a bit of a liberal but to me what's really important, particularly as a lawyer are the principles of democracy, the rule of law that we enjoy, the idea that if you work hard, study hard, get yourself educated, you can make a better life for yourself and your children. And the ship that my grandmother arrived on was on and arrived in Hilo. We're not a bunch of refugees per se, like both people. They're full of engineers and other professionals. And along the way, she got a boyfriend and his name was, and my mom knew him as Yaya Beliakov. And every few years she'd come back because he promised her that he would make his way in North America and come back for her. And he did and he came back several times. And she says, you know, she said, I can't leave. I've got these five kids with this Chinese doctor guy, you know, and she missed the food. My mom told me that she longed to, she really missed the Blackbird, which I take as pumpernickel. And is that the, you know, it's a whole bunch of sorrow and hardship. And I can't say that I've gained, I can't determine after three generations what elements of my grandmother's culture heritage and strength that I've gotten. I can only tell you about a few odd things that I think I've gained from being her grandson. Well, yeah, and you seem very proud of the Ukrainian current bravery that is being displayed and your grandmother Anastasia's bravery as she crossed, I mean, the sea. And then the immigration on several sides of your family, you believe that those things are all strengths. That's what I hear you saying. And that they're beneficial to Hawaii and the United States. We are a country of immigrants. And of course, we don't have room for everybody that we like to get across, but I never once believed the misinformation foisted by a former president that everybody who migrated south across the border were murderous thieves and rapists. I'll just start with that. I think these lies are terrible. These are the kind of lies that Hitler told in his rise to power. And I'd like to draw your attention to a photograph that I've not seen, but I've read about of ship workers in Hamburg in 1936. There are hundreds of ship workers all saluting the Hitler salute to Hitler, except for one fellow. His name is believed to be Abram Lansmesser. Abram knew, Abram was a member of the Nazi party, but he knew that what Hitler was saying were lies. He knew because his sweetheart, his girlfriend was Jewish. It was the days before the invasion of Poland and the terrible Holocaust stuff, but he knew that that stuff was, were all lies that Jews were as just as human as Germans. And we've got to get past this idea about discrimination against newcomers. There's strengths and weaknesses to every culture that lands on our shores, be it Hilo Bay, where I'm from, or San Francisco Bay, our big country. This prejudice we have against others is an evil that we need to kind of educate ourselves about and to get past, we have to of course be cautious about protecting our own personal privacy and security and everything else. But this prejudice about other human beings being subhuman is absolutely ridiculous. I myself describe, I myself describe Mongrel being Asian, Caucasian and Polynesian. And if I'm some kind of evil guy, you better lock me up because I might be dangerous, but I'm not. So what I hear you talking about is, yeah, current events, a lot of race issues that have come up quite recently in United States. And of course, Hawaii seems like a good place to live. You also, earlier when we were talking, you referred to Mark Twain's quote about travel. And this is one of my favorite quotes also. I'd like to put it up and I'm just gonna read it. Yeah, please do Mark, because I don't have it. I don't have Mark Twain's words memorized, but he's the guy that wrote about Jim and Tom Sawyer floating down the Mississippi together, two human beings communicating. So his quote is a great one, I like it. Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness. And many of our people need it sorely on these accounts, broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth, all one's lifetime. I like that quote. What does that quote mean to you? Well, it tells me a couple of things. One thing is that one should never ever, and this is part of the training I got from my mom and my dad, one should never ever look down on someone because they come from a different religion, because they're of a different nationality, or if they come from a different place. All these people deserve, I believe, rights to be treated as human beings and to be given an opportunity to prove themselves to be worthy citizens. I know it sounds quite political, but I'm kind of a political thinking kind of a guy. Well, and also, the reason I like the quote because I like to travel. And I like to meet people. And one thing I've found is traveling, I mean, to all over the world is that a lot, we're quite alike. We all share a lot of things. And really this hate that some people have for other races disappears if you travel. It's helpful to meet these other people and to get to know them. And then you learn that they're friendly. And in many instances, you can have lifelong friendships. So I agree. That's what I like. Now, let me ask you, where are we in Ukraine? What are your thoughts about, I'm coming back to your comments about what's going on now in Ukraine and the reason that you told me you were proud to be Ukrainian. What is your view of what's happening? What the United States should do and where it's going? Well, that's a huge question. I personally, I am, like I said, I was 11 radical for five years through when I was in my 20s. I prefer peace over war as I think most of us do. But I don't think that Vladimir Putin and his government can be won over by diplomacy. I think the only way to defeat Putin and his horrible war crimes invasion of my grandma's country is militarily. And I'm so proud of the support the United States has given not only since the invasion, but prior to the invasion, preparing them about guerrilla tactics and resistance and arming them with some of the tools. I would like to see more tools than the Javelin and I'd like to see longer range missiles. I understand the fear of army drawn into a World War III if we supply the Ukrainians with missiles that would reach the Kremlin and blow it to smithereens, which is what they deserve. But I think we're in the right track and I'm proud to see that our countries continue to supply my grandma's countrymen with arms. And I'm very happy to see about the arms that the native countries have finished as well. I would like to see jet fighters and other things that might make it easier, but they seem to be doing incredibly well with the, I mean, not only have the infiltrated enemy lines and have blown up targets in Crimea and things like that, but they've also managed to pay very close attention to the media. Putin hired a bunch of mercenaries who were killed just a matter of a couple of weeks ago because in their boastful advertising, adrenalism in Russia, they took a picture of the street corner where the mercenaries were being housed and a couple dozen of those guys were killed by a Ukrainian missile. I'm also very proud of the Ukrainian sinking, the Russian flagship, the Moskva, several months ago. That was a surprise to Vladimir, but that fellow and his cohorts are relentless. They're gonna have to be defeated militarily. I'm not sure what it's gonna take and we can't put boots on the ground and I think that makes a lot of sense, but I think we should stick with our program and support the Ukrainians all the way till the end. All right, and we have to close now. Is there one word or two words that you'd like to close with about, maybe what your grandmother would say about this and how you would feel about that? I'm gonna tell you, I'm so appreciative of the fact that she left what apparently was a horrible situation and it wasn't her choice to stay in Hawaii. And what you're saying actually is that she left, she was strong and she provided a better life for her grandchildren and everybody like. The story of my grandmother is the story of the American dream, something that we all should preserve as much as we can because democracy is not guaranteed in our own United States and I won't get into the percentages of people who don't believe that democracy was threatened on January 6th, okay, I'm not gonna get into that, but we have to stand up for democracy and fight for it. Every time a threat is made against it. So, Greg, thank you very much for sharing your personal story and your thoughts and your ideas with us this morning, this day today. And I appreciate hearing about your heritage. So I'm glad you're proud to be Ukrainian. And we're full. Aloha to everybody. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.