 We are just starting off. So you will just put an introduction for 5-10 minutes about the basic concept and then you can say that we will take questions. Good evening everyone and you would be surprised that today's resource persons Manikar Awad who is also the founder of VileCC, your legal carrier coach. We have also in our office Associates would normally join keenly follow VileCC as such and there was a request from a lot of participants that we should have the insights regarding the internships, interviews and beyond. Beyond I can say that beyond law not only in the communication skills etc. So during this interactive session we will be taking questions on the YouTube as well as on the Zoom regarding all those questions which can boil up or which normally creep up in the mind of any person who is studying with law and beyond that. So Manikar right now is in Australia and it's around 10 p.m. A passion to pay back to the society speaks and lies writ large only on this aspect that despite 10 p.m. she feels that even though she is polluting around but she felt that there is something else where she can pitch in her knowledge so when we requested her she immediately lashed upon that. I will ask Samanika that during the session what does she intend to take forward around in 10-15 minutes then we will be taking questions which normally boil in the mind of a participant, student of law etc and then how do you actually they say that the stable water gives you more clarity. So how do you bring that boiling expression in the mind of a participant and how do you see that they can have a clearer picture. This is all what we intend to take forward we will be taking questions as we said on the YouTube as well as on this Zoom. How do you Samanika? Thank you so much for that very kind introduction. So hello everyone I am Samanika as Vikas mentioned I am the founder of your legal career coach with a legal career mentorship platform where we used to focus on one-on-one mentorship as well as interview preparation now we are expanding into other domains as well. Majorly for past two years actually since pandemic I've been into legal career coaching so I graduated from NUJAS Calcutta and thereafter I was working with HSA Advocates in the Mumbai branch and with another legal leading ed tech company as their placement head and then from 2021 we had started YLCC so this month we just completed two years in the past three years I've had the opportunity of mentoring more than 1500 students in one-on-one as well as group sessions. So mostly the common kind of queries which we get are related to how to secure internships, quality internships, how to convert them into PPO's, how to crack job interviews now that most of the students are either interning during their summer break or the fresh graduates are hunting for jobs. So the kind of queries we get these days for mentorship are related to how to crack the HR round, how to crack the technical round of the interview and ultimately everything boils down to one thing is what you're writing in your CV. So your CV becomes very important at the same time if you want your application to get shortlisted then your cover body mail which is I'll not say cover letter because then a lot of people tend to commit this mistake of attaching the separate document which most of the recruiters might not open so I call it a cover note which you write in the body of the email itself and like because usually any law firm or chambers HR if they have one receives at least 50 to 500 applications on an average per week and then if they have let's say 5 to 20 vacancies per month max 20 minimum let's say 2 or 5 it becomes very difficult for the HR to shortlist and to respond to everyone. Now being a very active user on LinkedIn I see a lot of students arguing on the fact that okay HR should give us the feedback and this that and all if you are sending the same CV and cover letter to 100 recruiters and you expect 100 people to sit down and give you a feedback that won't work out rather you should sit down to customize your applications to customize your CV to customize your cover note to send it to the right recruiter accordingly like I receive so many applications or even on LinkedIn despite knowing that I'm not a recruiter I'm a career coach a lot of people send me messages saying here do you have a job for me based on my profile and like they'll not even take efforts to explain me who they are or where they're coming from and then they expect me to give them a job and like check their profile so a lot of these small mistakes we commit like these are not something we do intentionally but maybe unintentionally maybe because somebody never corrected it during our journey a lot of you might be those who are in the fourth and fifth year might be the covid vat students who started their college journeys and online mode where these basic personality skills were maybe got skipped by the faculties who were supposed to teach these things or the seniors who used to take the responsibility of mentoring these things so those are the only aspects I would want to cover today and if anybody has any doubts please feel free to ask because I was asked that I should come and since beyond CLC has such a good reach amongst young law students and fresh graduates so I was asked if I can help and contribute to your growth in any manner so I'm here to just answer your queries please please feel free to ask any doubts you have just received first message because we will though we have received a lot of messages on the whatsapp whatever they say that what steps should be taken to build a career that is that will all obviously mean internship and thereafter leading to the interview okay so since this is a very broad question and the audience category would be very diverse from let's say the first year students will be entering law school now with the June July batch to maybe fourth fifth year students or three year batch students so I will kind of try to give an objective answer rather than a subjective one if you're wherever stage in life you are whether you're a you're entering law school or you're about to exit law school what you need to understand is have a clarity in terms of the roadmap you want to have so for example if you want to say that where should you proceed in your career in law write down what are your priorities in life because in law it's not only the 50 subjects you study in law school where you can build a career rather you might have not even studied let's say 10 more or 50 more subjects and you can still pursue a career in that domain I have a friend who graduated from NLU Jodhpur and is now known as one of the very popular lawyer who's doing international custody matters now that is not a subject he ever studied in law school similarly my batch mate pursued her career in outer space law which was something maybe she studied towards the end of law school just as an elective subject right so there are so many combinations service matters most of us are not taught service matters related stuff in law school so there's a lot which law degree can offer you it's not just the blind rat race behind like the two or three broad terms you might have heard of that in law school you've only heard of there's something called litigation there's something called maybe corporate and then there's something called maybe in-house or then it's not where the law ends or starts these are just broader umbrellas to make you understand that there are plethora of options so first it's your responsibility to sit down to do your research to decode in terms of what lies in litigation don't take the decision of going for litigation or not going for litigation on the basis of somebody said because there are equal number of people actually good number of people if not equal who have made their name in litigation in early five years of practice or three years four years of practice I know a friend who graduated from one of the top NLUs as the topper of the batch he had the option of joining any big law firm in India but he chose to practice litigation and that too he chose Nenital High Court and not Delhi or Bombay High Court yet he started in 2017 there was a pandemic for two years in between and right now he already runs a chamber with at least five to six juniors so that is possible because judges these days are very much encouraging youngsters to come and argue but if you do not have the skill sets skill sets again this term skill sets is also now I feel is used very casually and everybody is going behind doing so many 10,000 courses not even doing courses actually just enrolling in courses in the name of building skill sets no even if you're doing just one thing focus on building your personality because there has to be one Ram Jayit Malani and there has to be one file in a remand right they might have not wanted to become each other similarly you have to become yourself and for that you have to work on your personality that work can only happen when you do your homework properly we all are the generation of social media we've stopped so many people those talking is officially a crime but we all are already very good at research case if you can do that research on social media and find the right answer you're looking for why can't you do the same research on the real platform where you might be willing to get the right information now in litigation again it's not just civil criminal there's a lot more beyond that because I talked to so many students on a day to day basis and they then they take decisions on the basis of criminal thoda sa risky hai parent shayat allow nahi karenge civil shayat thoda boring ho jayega but there's a lot more than just these two even in litigation there's constitutional litigation there is administrative litigation there is consumer litigation there's taxation litigation there are so many different ways of litigation there's commercial litigation now so before you jump to the conclusion in terms of okay litigation might not be fit for me because go to the court stand in the courts for at least one week observe things even if you're in your first year or fifth year it's never too late to go and stand in the court don't do internship just for the sake of collecting the certificate and then keep begging your seniors that please virtual internship do running internships i had batch mails who used to go for internship from 5 pm till maybe 11 30 12 30 at times they used to return at one o'clock also in the night but they interned with a senior and in the evening hours when he used to return and do all the drafting work so they got that kind of an exposure you can intern with district court lawyers you can intern with public prosecutors the diversity of seniors and most importantly focus on looking for a good mentor good mentor aapki comfort zone ne kabhi aapko nahi milaya hain kya mai bed pe bed ke apna aaram se comfort se virtual internship karo good mentor will be a local lawyer who would be walking around will be performing will be running here and there and then you when you shadow them when you observe them from close proximity you develop more skills so that is one thing similarly when you hear corporate again i spoke to mr anjan das gupta he's the senior partner of ds ke legal and anjan sir goes to at least seven to 12 colleges every year for placements now i was speaking to him last year in the month of march and he said samanakar 12 colleges and every second person who sat for placement just said one word cop job jai kya unko yeh bhi nahi bata and the same thing happens with me also like when they come for a mentorship to me as well yesterday i spoke to somebody today i spoke to a graduate with one and a half year of experience everybody uses this term cop very very casually again they don't know what specifically within cop so if if you do that homework of simplifying it trust me friends even if you're eyeing for tier one firms like every tier one there are at least seven or eight of them now and every tier one has at least 40 to 70 freshers every year 40 to 70 freshers now do the calculation multiply it with eight you have at least 300 to 400 fresher vacancies coming every year just in tier one firms now if all these 300 people who are getting recruited are going to say i want a cop job cop job cop job do you think the recruiting partner it is his responsibility to do your homework and decide key who will be the right fit then maybe it'll just be a lucky draw thing that you got placed with real estate team or you got placed with banking finance or you got placed with mna maybe anything which you may may not like that's a luck factor you go for however even if you're sitting for cop you make it more specific so cop commercial loss but preferably the transactions team cop commercial loss but preferably the caps marketing cop commercial loss but preferably the mna team you simplify the work of the recruiting partner and they are able to shortlist you for the right team based on your interest otherwise what happens at the time of recruitment you don't do the calculation properly you don't do the homework properly you don't communicate things properly and then you get placed in the team based on your luck and later after six months nine months one and a half year you suddenly one day you realize that I have a sufficient bank balance but I'm not enjoying what I'm doing I'm not having the satisfaction job satisfaction and then you see so many people quitting within their one one and a half year so if you ask how should you plan there are certain things you need to do firstly do your homework in trying to understand what are the conventional and unconventional opportunities in the field of law because there are a lot of new areas new domains within law and outside law which are creating vacancies for law students and freshers like for example if you talk within law niche areas like media entertainment technology within technology again it's a huge umbrella there's fintech there's ai there is cryptocurrency blockchain there is gdpr then you have media entertainment a lot of new niche areas esg is picking up medical legal post pandemic is picking up so all these things you need to do a homework understanding me repose options can it's like you going to a restaurant and expecting somebody else to decide on your behalf then it'll be a just a luck factor but at least so I would want to select from this category and I'll not select from this category so similarly that is the first homework you should do second is choosing the right set of organization in terms of what kind of work do they do I recently got a call from a junior who had changed a chamber thinking that the person will get a very good quality of work but ultimately the person said I really want to quit this chamber because he basically will have me social media post one hour and they just want me to help them with their business development work similarly a lot of students go for internships and then they complain is maybe interested in appearing for some competitive exam and we are just preparing notes for that person so all this homework needs to be done before and you're lucky you have a LinkedIn app where you can network with people you can talk to people who've worked in that organization in the past you can talk to the students who've been turned in those organizations in the past and get a general feedback research research research research research research research skills is something which is mandatory for every law student and lawyer to build a good career in law if you're casual if you don't take responsibility for your research you will you're just going to cost your career then comes the next thing which is trying to understand the jd job description as well as the nature of the work of the recruiter like for example if if you're interested in banking law now your expectation of banking could be that maybe along with banking you're interested in doing the financing work and therefore the ideal team you should join is somebody who's doing a lot of banking finance and maybe let's say with a combination of project finance because all these infrastructure construction projects have a lot of financing that is required but if you did not do your homework and you ended up with a team which does purely banking a litigation work which is mostly your debt recovery and DRT work you might get frustrated thinking that oh i expected some other kind of work but they are doing something else now how can you say that after six months of nine months of working in that form why did you not do that homework beforehand to figure out what they are doing why did you not ask the right kind of questions during your interview because interview interviews and then they think that somebody is going to grill you and then you have to prove yourself and seek validation but interview is nothing but a formal conversation they are just trying to understand if you can fit in their team or not because it's their extended family in the same manner you should ask the right set of questions to understand if they fit in the right category of a future recruiter or future job environment you are looking for like during my interview my senior asked me so manaka what exactly are you looking for i said sir i am a first-generation lawyer i'm looking for a mentor who could guide me because i might not know a lot of things at the moment and this is a new domain i'm picking so your priorities in life should be very clear asa nahi ki sab chahiye ki paisa bhi chahiye bhi chahiye bhi chahiye then then you are not being honest with yourself and then you are trying to run away from doing the introspection some for some based on whatever circumstances money could be a priority for some maybe like for me a team size was a priority i at that point of time whenever starting my career i didn't want to work with a very large size team i was intentionally looking for a small size team that's why i was not sitting for a lot of big firms at that point of time then for somebody else they had my bachelors have had certain education loans they wanted to clear that so for them securing a job with a high package was a priority it does not matter which team what domain and all so they went with some of the some some people even went for lpo jobs which i do not and for pso job for some time so all this calculation you have to do for yourself and for that reason you have to ask the right questions do not randomly go to anyone and everyone and just das logu va gyan sunke and then fir khutko confused kya usse vudaya go to a right mentor whoever it is chai paid mentor or unpaid mentor does not matter we didn't have the concept of having paid mentors during our time that's why i had to start it because i realized that there was a gap in the industry but your mentor could be your senior from college who was able to achieve ideally avoid going to maybe a one or two year senior because they are themselves exploring so it is like apke goal same hain apke priorities life me same hain apke circumstances same and then you also look up to them that okay fine i want to also achieve exactly the same way maybe then you can rely on them however at least three to four year senior is a good time frame where you can approach somebody because then they know okay okay what are the repeated mistakes people made in the past two three years which they made their immature juniors made and then maybe they'll be in a better position to guide you how can you trust jupiti like you yourself don't know if jupiti knowledge is right or not right otherwise jusko aap wo gyan dero kya wo jupiti use ne kar saktay chafli software as of now so be very very careful in terms of what is your source of information you are gathering learn to ask yourself the right set of questions to understand what your priorities and like what your interests are what you really like and what you don't like for example i when i was sitting for the banking law interview now i always had inclination towards maths and numbers so i was able to justify to the recruiter on the day of the recruitment that like in 12th i had maths then even in a clad i scored good marks in maths which helped me secure a good rank and then five years i was doing corporate internships only so ultimately i want to work in the banking team so identify what are your likes what are your interests and then try to connect the dot then it will become much more easier for you to justify to anybody or to convince anybody why they should give you that job like similarly i had worked with the recruitment team of envious for three years so therefore like getting a placement head job opportunity was not that difficult for me similarly in the law firm i have worked in the construction arbitration team for a good amount of time handled good amount of matters you know so now if i want to convince somebody that i should be given a chance to work in the construction arbitration it might be easier but let's say suddenly i tell somebody that i want media entertainment or ipr then they will also say where is it coming from so similarly for those of you who are in their final years who if in house is something you are looking for because a lot of people confuse corporate with in house also corporate stands for pure corporate teams of law firms which are specialized teams but usually very casually people use corporate for in house roles also because companies play with it so if if you are going for a corporate role through knockray.com or through any other head hunting platform or legal recruitment platform in that case don't see which company is hiring that today maybe let's say surf excel team company is hiring so apply it today tomorrow make my trip hire it then do it tomorrow hire it then do it no that that again will not help you secure a job or an internship for that matter what you have to do is sit down with yourself ask yourself what do i like the most what are my likes and dislikes in life you will not get bored because in house because three or four years you tend to do most of the same type of work every day but motivation factor because you will be passionate towards what the company is doing because that is something you really like make my trip indigo now on the other hand if you don't like what they're doing you end up joining them for example if you're somebody who does not like to travel at all and you end up joining a travel agency and you walk or you're a very diet conscious person and you work with a food tech start out which delivers and creates advertisements around jalebes and chola baturas and all of that so it's always better to know yourself better to do your introspection better the better decisions you'll be able to take alongside your career and then connect which law joins the dots like i had a student second-year student who came to me said i always wanted to become a musician but my father didn't allow so now i want to become a media lawyer only similarly some i know somebody else who always wanted to become a musician guitar was on a kabha shop but couldn't become a musician so now he's a media lawyer so that way if you connect your areas of interest your passions your likes with your career you you will be very happy and satisfied in the long run otherwise it will just be like a mirage okay i think i've spoken for a very long time vikas sir you can take other questions so you have completed everything one of the takes which the participants can say that the chance of your submissions would be i would say that the heart is on the left but it always thinks right so first you have to think what what the heart is saying of course the second tip what we can understand is that hard work is the key to success mantra so one night short ups cannot be actually take you to higher limits or one is that like we spoke out what is the effect of the social media like you you've spoken day in and day out on the LinkedIn and even in the today's session the value of blogging value of certificates and internships when you ultimately try for the passion to take things forward in your career later on right um social media if done in the right manner in the right quantity can be very very helpful but it can get addictive it can influence give you the false validation which i see a lot of young students these days getting um and they think that maybe oh these many number of flags so these many number of views might help us in getting a better this thing recognition in the longer end which is not true because it's a small community and like everybody ends up meeting each other somewhere or the other in the longer end so if you talk about blogging yes if you're able to articulate your thoughts very well any form of writing for that matter you're writing on LinkedIn you're writing on a blog you're writing an article you're writing a paper if you're able to research well and articulate it better in a manner in which let's say a 10th standard student or a professional who has 10 years of experience both are firstly able to understand your language and secondly and most importantly both are able to get some value out of it that is the perfect article i feel is it should not be filled with a lot of jargons that you're trying to project yourself to be somebody which you are not or which for that matter nobody is able to understand at the first place so if you're writing if if you're able to write in a language which a school child who just passed 10th 12th and doesn't know much about law he can also get value and a professional who has 10 years of experience in the field so that is the perfect thing you should try to target for secondly whenever you are writing you should be very clear whom am i writing for like what is my purpose am i trying to just build a fan following in terms of a community building we are doing or am i trying to generate any kind of leads because i want to offer some services or am i trying to just share my thoughts like i'm writing it like a diary and then accordingly you should choose your tone it cannot be that one day you're writing because it's my personal account and i am just here to share my thoughts and third day so then your audience will keep on getting confused you will not be able to have a consistent audience on social media your audience becomes your community so that community is something like once you start regularly creating content as a creator to some extent you do become responsible to what your community is getting the content otherwise they'll stop engaging with your content and you'll lose the purpose because after one point time it does become but now in terms of certificates trust me not needed at all like i have so many certificates which i've never used anywhere because we are not able to justify a lot of students who are interested in ipr come to me and they say oh we've done world intellectual property organization certificate course i say okay fine you want to write it in your cv we'll write it in your cv but you tell me what are the three practical things you learned from that course and they say oh that we don't know so then what is the point of writing up the certificate the certificate but not doing even one course seriously and you learn a lot more than you could have done so there is a balance you need to maintain your cv in terms of the quality versus quantity that quality always has to be higher over quantity okay it's okay that like i'm not say five years but even if you're doing let's say five different internships do those five internships in a proper manner for an extended period of time and you expect them to give you a ppo i know a tier one firm which had 32 interns in the month of december last year imagine 32 interns every month how many ppo's can they give let's say half 15 to 16 students get a sorry get a call back first so you are unnecessarily going to increase competition for yourself just by trying to collect so many certificates nobody will bother ultimately at the end of the day especially in our field legal field and those fundamentals you do not learn in courses or you do not learn in internships those fundamentals you learn from the bear act but you don't open bear acts nobody opens bear acts fancy commentary is putting it putting it will put it in the body she's a bad man law according you have to answer and the law is in the bear the primary law so if you develop that habit of reading the bear act you develop the habit of building that knowledge so by the way on social media you're just uploading certificates that validation okay i don't say don't do it because again you you might take offense for it but external validation go for internal validation that i am happy that today i have finished contracts act now if anybody asked me any question from contracts act i will be able to answer that the day you start going inward and doing the inner work you will be able to get better results and you'll not be bothered by it's fine there is a different slice of pizza yes you've actually put it in the right manner that so ultimately you say that you have to become more like a tree which can actually be a good fruit and people can actually cherish that so so somewhat in the brushing lines to the effect that it is always better to be offline rather than online so what subtle difference does it make or there's a stark difference between the two okay so before i share my personal feedback i understand see this is a disclaimer i have to say that i understand for a lot of people financials are in issues and those who could not afford going to a metro city paying money in terms of the paying guest and then travel and everything and for them pandemic opened this opportunity that they could do virtual internship and gain experience i understand that and for that i feel that yes there should be an option to do a virtual internship however at the same time from learning aspect if i have to say it makes a like like i said that courtroom internships are not just about what research you've done what opinion you've made there's a lot more learning that happens through observation and that can only happen when you're physically there when you walk through the corridor you see people the way senior advocates walk the way people brief the seniors the way they argue before the court lot of things the non drafting non desk roll work which happens the kind of conversations which happen the discussions between two different seniors and you're just privy to that conversation a lot of those things also help in your self-development in addition to the standard research and drafting work you do secondly most of the information is confidential so when you do a virtual internship your seniors are not comfortable in sharing those kind of informations with you while on one side as an intern you might feel very happy at the end of the internship that i got to research on so many different queries i got to assist the senior in so many different manners but you would not even know that what were the additional things you could have gained which the senior did not share because it was a confidential information so especially again it also depends on the domain you're going for for example if you're interning in the tech domain because tech in itself is most of the firms are doing research related work only so for that kind of a domain researching or walking from home could be an easy option but for a domain like IPR where everything revolves around confidentiality then most of the seniors are not comfortable enough to assign tasks to the juniors also because you have to understand what a lot of law students were doing wrong because of which the minority which could have benefited from this is suffering the thing is people were interning at three places at one time during pandemic camera web camera bhande boldia sir network haraway this that and all now you are trying to balance or juggle three internship from your side as a student apkutin certificate which is very good but from a lawyer side you don't know what if the opponent client has hired the other lawyer you are interning at now the moment a client gets to know that both the offices are sharing one resource whether he's an intern or an employee does not matter the lawyer might end up losing that client because there is a breach of confidentiality from their side also so again from that aspect also they're not comfortable because i got that complaint from so many professionals who said we gave virtual internships to students and later after a few months we saw them updating their LinkedIn that they were doing two parallel internship during the same time or rather if they were interning with a bigger brand they just updated their LinkedIn with a bigger brand's name remove the other lawyer's name from the LinkedIn profile just to avoid the clash on LinkedIn but do you think the professionals will not notice they do notice and that's why like i said because of these kind of unethical actions which were taken by some of the students the minority which could have benefited who could not genuinely afford to go because i remember whenever i went for internships to Delhi Hyderabad Bangalore every time like it is a cost of at least 10 to 15,000 and maybe not everyone would be in a position to afford that in that situation i would again reiterate the fact go for local internships you need not always go for metro city internships trust me there are good number of mentors in your local cities as well it's that kind of mirage only that you think that okay you can get good exposure only in other cities had that been a case your lawyers in your local states would not have been minting so much of money there are so many good lawyers from big colleges, NLUs, Delhi universities who have studied who have worked in big firms in metro cities and have gone back to their own cities i know people i know somebody who is working with Deloitte went back to Nenithal during pandemic to start his own practice and he's doing very well Azhar Rab sir is very popular in the arbitration circle he's from NLUs Bangalore he came back to there to continue his practice so you can definitely find good mentors these days who've gone to bigger cities gone to bigger colleges gotten good exposure and have now come back to their own hometowns and where their roots are so go do the local internship with those people or wherever your college is like i mentioned do running internship do not waste your evening hours just by scrolling around and like just by social media scrolling rather utilize that time period three months do a running internship where even if in the evening hours five hours after college as you can go and work with the local lawyer you'll not have to pay additional rent you're already staying in pga's or hostels so that is like problem here problem sub ko pata hai ki there are different kinds of problems but as lawyers have a problem se zara solution pe focus karna bata hai usi ki toon mein ari degree milti aum hai so that's how that's how you have to focus on ki what is the solution for you and if i have to revisit the answer i would still go for that offline internships will give you more value however for whatever circumstances you have i have full respect for that in those circumstances then look for alternatives the other way to say that what you have said that normally even in the temples and churches we say nearer to near to church further from god so the bottom line is that you say that you also look around the lawyers etc who can help you to turn out the best in within you rather than the same what is looked in an interview like we have done discussed about internships what is normally looked while you are being interviewed or you have gone for an interview how do you dress hold it how do you show your resume and what are the key mantras which they can keep it in the mind and can move forward right for interview i use my ssb experience because i was in an army aspirin so i have given a good number of ssb's and i was recommended also for the jack branch so because ssb may they focus a lot on the psychology and i realized that it's the same thing most of the recruiters also follow without expressly undergoing a psychology training to do that they look for your personality at the end of the day it's the personality that matters because there are different stages in which your application gets shortlisted now at the beginning of course your grades is something which becomes easier factor for them to filter because if 500 people are applying and they want to interview let's say only 10 people then like shortlisting first 50 becomes easier based on the grades because it shows consistency in your hard work second level would be your knowledge like they wouldn't want to know okay if you're saying that i'm interested in this we do even know about it right but there are a good number of people like who end up mugging things so like you can mug up the laws you can have good grades you can have good theoretical knowledge but at the end of the day if you don't have that personality to apply that law if you do not have the perspective building capacity then you might not get the job irrespective whether you are the best person in the room or not in terms of on paper value of yours secondly when i say personality they want see ultimately they're hiring you because they see a future partner in you at least most of them do want to see because if they're hiring a fresher there is a lot of investment that happens on the side of the recruiter in grooming that fresher and a lot of freshers end up leaving their first boss in their first one and a half two years a boss or a leader irrespective depending on the luck what they get now despite knowing that a person might end up leaving me in next one one and a half year if i am taking that responsibility of grooming this fresher that transition period of being a student in college being very casual and this that to making him that professional if they're resting in this grooming that is done thinking that what if let's say out of 50 people they hire what if at least two people stay and they can look for a future partner in them at the same time even when you're working with them see you're in the field of law we spent at least 10 to 12 hours in office with each other nobody would want to have a grumpy person sitting next to them who's spreading very toxic waves does not gel up is always very cutthroat and very self-centered does not want to work in team atmosphere no because a lot of work we do especially in the law firm atmosphere at least is a very team oriented work you might be doing a due diligence work the report has to be prepared for 700 pages you can't do it alone right so ultimately job will look last five year last three weapons are then that all three are exceptionally good then if they have to decide whom they want to hire then ultimately again it comes back to your personality and this is one thing I see most of the students not working upon I had a student who lost her very important in-house council interview because she had cleared the technical loan but she messed up the HR and even professionals who come to me for up to 14 years of experience who've come to me and they've said Samanaka we are planning to switch I said okay fine I'll help you but you tell me which organization they say that is something you have to tell me so that means you're not working on introspection part that means you're not working on your HR questions and that's exactly why people get stuck they don't get what they're looking for they're not able to negotiate better for themselves right so this is exactly what the recruiters look for your technical knowledge by default becomes very important and now if I have to go into specifics the technical make yeah because technical again skies the limit divide your curriculum into what you must know what you should know and what you could know that way life becomes much easier when people come to me for their interview preparation I tell them let's sit together and divide what slivers you must know what slivers you should know and what slivers you could know because must know may I get direct questions and you're saying I'm interested in mergers okay what do you understand by a demurger what do you understand by a host I take over these kind of direct questions definition clauses but they don't decide whether you'll get a job or not the recruiter is just asking you these questions to make you feel comfortable to be okay I'm telling you I don't mean I don't know if you know this question because I am an IPR and I am this and to that and to but basic then comes your should know if you're writing I've researched on the concept of seat under arbitration okay do you know the difference between seat versus venue if you're saying I'm interested in IPC do you know the difference between homicide amounting to murder not amounting these kind of questions which used to confuse right via maybe what we say the colleges man so plain pleading different types of rates etc so this is sure to know because if you're saying you are interested you've studied law for five years you've done in terms of this is by default you should know now if you easy miss your number milte is he miss a decided that you're next stage major okay then comes the third category which is good no job I have a sky limit one but okay what is currently happening are you aware of this important judgment what is happening this matter which is happening or can you apply your brains in a hypothetical situation now could you know me you take it even if you're able to attempt it perfectly naiby kya koi baati the recruiter will be like take it as a lawyer you are able to think because law make there is nothing right or wrong it is all about perspectives so NLU or non NLU bus here he difference or kuchh difference the NLU bus a ko train kiya jata ki a kudki perspective building exercise meh dhyaan doh ki kese aap ekhi cheez ko alag lag tari ke si interpret karke us ke alag lag meaning nikaar siktu non NLU meh yehi cheez pe focus nahi kiya jata isi liya non NLU students ko recruitment meh struggle hote because recruiters look for that kind of a personality who can think from multiple angles agar har koi ekhi tari ke se deka toh aap bhi aur saam ne walon wakil bhi semi cheez palo gaya na semi interpret karo gaya how will your lawyer make more money right so that is the only difference so if you feel that somebody is differentiating between you and somebody is based on the college you went for just show them that you can think at about a particular situation from multiple perspective and that happens when you read a lot isi liye law meh reading and writing bhi by default honi chaya aap din bhi itini cheez hain padro social media meh ads padro blogs padro captions padro padro rahi yeh us aap asa nahi ki koi bhi asa insaan ho jo padrata nahi padro aaj ki date meh har koi rahi but aap kya padro aap aap aap aap area of interest se kese connect to that that is something that makes all the difference so if again coming back to your question interviewer what they are looking for definitely technical knowledge but more importantly what is your personality and can that personality fit that environment or not they say that first you have to learn then you remove the L and then you start and yes and there's a lot of unlearning that happens so I'm learning and unwinding akshita says can you share a brief insights on prospects in paid law actually that would become another conversation because we just have 10 minutes but in brief akshata if I have to say trade like I would say because it's not a subject which was taught in law schools most of the law schools don't teach it there are a good number of internships available the trade center because they had come to our college to offer a credit course so there are a good number of internships available and through research model you can go and explore some opportunities like directly job opportunities I doubt you there might be because I haven't seen many floating publicly but yes there are a few research based internships which you can get with the research organizations and from there you can take it forward since we're taking on the interviews Rishabh says once somebody says what is the salary expectation or you answer or how does the employer also take into it right I'm so sorry Rishabh for missing that question earlier so whenever somebody is saying salary expectation you again you have to do that homework in terms of where is that organization fitting in the salary brackets now glass door hay are but sorry all the platforms in your comparative analysis they did a key tier one forms ka carrying chal raya be tier two forms ka carrying chal raya tier three forms ka if you're talking about the corporate firms if you're talking about in houses again depending on the city and the brand name the package varies chambers city wise again it varies barren bench me last year for a abhi kuch maine pehle shayat ek poora wo series nikalata ki conci city me lawyers average kithna derin but he said that you should pay well yes yes of course so now firstly you should know which bracket you are going for but because it can't be that you're going for a tier five firm but telling them that I expect a tier one package it happened with one of my student very recently he was sitting for an interview and he said I mean I need at least 80k their budget was 25 to 35k now if if you do that mistake you block that prospect of having a further conversation then it is not negotiation negotiation is a decent range up on ko deshaku ki it he kept open each other cheese you need to do a homework also in terms of if you're planning to negotiate does that form actually negotiate is there something you can bring on table for them for example I'll give you my personal example so I was planning to return to law and I spoke to a few litigation lawyers now one of them wanted me to use my social media presence for the firms branding or chambers branding right so that is something which was I which I was bringing on table additionally in terms of what other associates of the firm would be bringing and therefore I had that option of negotiating on that of course I didn't do it but I'm just saying right so similarly if if you're bringing something new then there are different strategies people follow so expectation may you can be honest with your expectation but it has to be realistic in terms of where in the bracket of the category of organization the particular places falling secondly if you're applying for mid-level positions like if you're coming with experience then the market standard is 25 to 30 percent of last one 25 to 30 percent hike means that yeah for if you're asking for beyond 30 percent then you have to justify why but the best thing I always suggest is because other critical not okay because other rigid not okay what you can always do is like this is something I do and has mostly worked for me is I tell them that okay you tell me what is your budget right now and if if the budget does not match my expectation I simply tell them that okay fine at the moment I'll accept this but after three to six months if I'm able to prove my caliber through my work will you be open for another round of conversation so that way you you do not put this impression that you're only thinking from your side you also tell them that I'm genuinely interested contributing to the firm and then I'll be asking for a fair compensation so most of the recruiters don't say no for that because then they're like okay fine even we will and if we are able to get a substantial contribution why shouldn't we compensate equally but if you're very rigid on day one it said that Naimiko just say Abhi a girl came to me two weeks back she was getting an offer for I think 35k or 40k 35k or 45k and she just wanted 5k or 4k more so she said they said key after tax deduction it now over and I want to say key sorry they said without tax deduction it now when I want to say it after tax deduction it now girl so I told her key if if that additional 10% if that additional 4k or 5k is actually making a lot of difference in your life only then you should be very rigid in terms of negotiating it and dropping that opportunity to go for next recruiter but if you feel that is not something which might be there and if it is a firm policy then you can always tell them that okay fine at the moment I'm ready to start at this level but after four months or after six months would you be open to another round of conversation depending on my performance right so there are different ways in which you negotiate negotiation is never about just a stage it's never like that yes that's the point well hammered which says that there shouldn't be a yawning gap between the expectation and the actual payment of the field and like you've also said rightly that you should also know what is this market sentiment going about and they say that but you should also understand that what type of value insights you can go say and then now we take beyond since it was interview internships interviews now we talk of beyond now how can one improve the communications are the mantras or these are some rigid aspects which cannot never be explained no no no personalities are dynamic and they can always be worked upon forge may get a key there is no such thing as weakness it's always an area of improvement as it is called area of improvement so you should be working on towards improving that area communication is just one of them I remember fifth standard the school where I was studying English speaking culture and suddenly when I changed my school in sixth standard so I used to sit at one corner and like not speak at all because everybody around me was speaking in English and then again but when I went to a new years now we had people from all parts of the country and some friends from south India also some friends from abroad also and there was no choice to not speak in English then suddenly I decided okay fine okay so few things which helped me which were taught to me by my mentors and maybe you can also incorporate it is I so the second thing is which helped me a lot was then I was said Whatever you are listening to movies or songs, turn on their captions and try to read it in the same pace in which they are speaking. In the beginning, it will take time. There is no problem. You get the option to speed up on YouTube. After that, you can speed it up naturally. Even on Netflix, you get the option to speed up. And then try to sing the songs in the speed in which they are singing. Try to read the lyrics. Try to repeat the sentences or the dialogues of the show you are watching. So these are different ways. And lastly and ultimately, practice definitely. Until you practice as much as you can, you will keep getting better. So all your friends at home, try to make a conversation with them. People will judge you if you are scared. Everyone is judging you. But at the end of the day, everyone will judge themselves and think what people will say to me. There is no time to look at others because everybody is focused on thinking what people will say to me. So try to have that conversation. And lastly and most importantly, mirror work used to help in our time. You have a Zoom alternate. Record on Zoom and watch the video. How am I speaking? What is my body language like? Am I very rigid like this? Or am I using my hands? Is it a very comfortable language? Am I making people feel that I am an approachable person? Or am I being very rigid and rude talking like that? So those are the things you should observe. I used to do that practice in front of the mirror that I used to stand in front of the mirror. And when I used to speak, I used to look at my body language. How are my hands moving? How are my eyes moving? Am I smiling or not? Am I being too rigid? You have the option of recording on Zoom. Say it once and record it again. So there are so many different things you can do. And also for interview prep, what you can do is you make 3-4 characters at home. There are items like a pillow, a table, a chair. And just think that these are the humans who are sitting in front of me and I have to give a lecture to them. Now I have to look at all of them because when I am talking to a room full of 3 people, I will look at one person but I will make everyone feel that I am talking to all of them. So that's how you can practice. So all of these things are our personality dynamic. We are all growing everyday. So just think that if communication is bad today, it will always be bad. But you have to do the homework around it. 3 P's what we normally speak of. You have said that practice, persistence and performance. So once you practice it, there will be a performance and that can only be through persistence. And I have reminded in Mahabharat, Arjun asked Bhim how he eats roti in the dark. He says Arjun is an abhyas and abhyas. So that is what the practice is. The last question, what is on the list? This one in the chat, I think Fosya has left. She wanted me to tell her how to start a career or preparation. Yes. So on our YCC's blog, yourlegalcareacourse.com, I have written 2 blogs. One is for the 2nd, 3rd year students who are just starting their judiciary journey. And one is for 4th and 5th year students. So I would highly recommend you guys to read it in detail. Now if you are a beginner, the best thing you can do is first sit down and identify the states you want to appear for. Because everyone has different syllabus, different pattern and different expectations. So first of all, it is very important to have that knowledge. Because people say we are studying, but what are you studying? If you are not a goal clearer, how will you shoot arrows? You will not get a target. So first of all, you should have that understanding. What are the states you are targeting? And you should have that syllabus. Now if you are an initial year of law school, then again, read the procedure laws, their bear acts very well. Read the newspaper daily or if you don't read the newspaper because there is a lot of negative news in terms of accidents and deaths and all that. So what you can do is you can subscribe to some of the other newsletters. There are a lot of monthly newsletters in which specific news comes. You can do that. There are a lot of channels on YouTube. I used to follow Baiju's IS Hindi, especially Professor Pushpesh Panth's lectures. But I think he is no more taking those sessions. So there are weekly updates of international relations. There are a lot of YouTube channels like that. I think beyond law CLC, there are a lot of judges' lectures. So keep your initial stage aware. Think about what to do first. I have seen a lot of students do that. Be open to learning and exploring in terms of I am just trying to explore what all this field has and then accordingly I can redirect my path. First three years of law school, I would say even if you are very much inclined towards judiciary, I would still say go do internships. Go get practical exposure. Because you won't be able to be a good judge by just keeping the theoretical knowledge. Until you don't know the ground realities or challenges. So the connection of bar and bends is always very important. So for that first three years, do internships as much as you can. If you want to go to judiciary, do quote internships. But do it. Do exposure. However, the moment you enter your fourth year. Now fourth year and fifth year is the time where you have to extremely streamline and you have to centre yourself. That is not the time when you can take the risk of just exploring. You can't do that. Because I have seen a lot of people who say until the end of fourth year, fifth year, first semester we'll intern and then last six months we'll leave for judiciary. Government exams in India demand tapasya. You have to be 100% dedicated to them. So therefore then you have to streamline. It's better if you can afford to take coaching from a reputed organization. Not like that. Nowadays, everyone is a different person. Even their own paper has not been cleared. They are also coaching. So be very, very careful. Because how coaching helps is you don't have to do the work. Somebody is doing your work. They are providing your information in a structured manner. And then you just have to focus on studying from those resources. However, if you cannot afford that's also completely fine. Then you divide your syllabus. Now the best approach for your career be it judiciary, RBI, SEBI. Even for job, cob job. This job, that job is. Whatever time period you have in law school in your fourth and fifth year, get it into quarters of three, three months each. And then plan your schedule. Every quarter, what is the target? Am I trying to achieve? And that way, you realistically plan whether I'm going for PC or judiciary. According to your caliber, how much time do you need? Because otherwise, people start their journey. And in between you'll see your friends getting placed. You'll see somebody clearing clad and getting good ranking. Then you get deviated. You get distracted. You get into self-doubts. This, that and all. Then you say, parents are telling you to do a job. This, that and all. Then you start looking for external excuses. That won't be when your goal will be very clear. Your path will be very clear. For that, you have to make a clear target quarter wise. Per three month quarter. Now there are some people who grab information very early. Like they have three hours. Okay fine. That person might say that maybe I need only one and a half year and I'll be able to crack the paper. You might be taking three hours for something what somebody else is taking one hour. Then in that case, if you feel, I need at least two and a half, three years to prepare. That's fine. Then you have to be mentally prepared. Because whenever you go for a competitive exam, to realistically prepare, then you have to take care of your mental health. It's not like that. You get stressed and crash down. And then you get therapy. Because that happens when you don't plan properly. If you make a clear plan that I really need three years. Okay fine. After fifth year, I'll take a drop year. And this is how I'm going to plan. Lastly and most importantly, do mock papers. Irrespective of where you are right now. Wherever you are. In any stage, do previous year papers. And weekend you can keep for the papers. Solve a paper. Next day, sit down to analyze the paper. As much as you learn from paper analysis, you won't learn from anywhere else. Because then you remember that I made this mistake and the correct answer was this. That is something which worked in my favor for CLAT as well as AFGAT. These are the two competitive exams I gave. Because as much as you keep doing their papers, side by side you keep reading on theoretical knowledge. But look at where do I stand. Being very honest, this is getting recorded. This will be on YouTube. When I started my CLAT journey, the first mock paper I had 7 out of 100 in general knowledge. And then over a period of time I could see the graph growing. And ultimately I got admission in NUJAS which is the third best NLU. So that can only happen when you are able to analyze your growth. You will be very confident you will be very happy with your preparation. You will be able to enjoy the process most importantly. Like what you said, we have sessions more than 60% from the judges of the different high codes of PAN India. We have also brought professors etc from PAN world. And that is why when this journey started during the COVID time we are hardcore professionals. We thought that we could think beyond the law so that the soft skills etc can also be spoken. And a lot of we keep on receiving messages where those who say that we are not monetized our channel, we are only doing it free so that people don't get marked up towards the advertisement etc so that they can learn from that we have sufficient from our professional that's the separate thing. And before we start those who have missed it, they can always subscribe to our channel. And be that as it may in the last line when the sky is clear then why fear? So once your knowledge is clear then everything can be done. Thank you everyone, stay safe stay blessed. And on Sunday we will be connecting on how to execute and implement the consumer protection cases by Justice Paramjit Singh Thaliwal a former judge of Punjab Rheena High Court and who was also the president of the Punjab State Consumer Preserve Forum do stay connected with us. And thank you Sumanika and we can say good day for others and good night to good evening to Sumanika, we got to about 11 o'clock. Thank you. Thank you for being with us.