 So let me see this is working. Yeah, you hear me, no? Yeah, cool. Wonderful. So Yeah, welcome to my session here building for the editor experience. My name is Andrea Sale. I work with Wunderkraut here in Germany and Yeah, I'm really happy that so many of you are here for attending my session and I'm really On top of that. I'm really really thrilled that we have so many sessions talking about user experience for the different people like like developers and site builders and most of all editors and having the talks about the spark initiative and all that things and Also like the session we had before Anybody attended the session that was in this room right before this one here Because it's really nice. It's like it's like having back-to-back The Session before Was about designing for the everyday Things it was more about concepts of design. What can what can go right one can what can go wrong about concepts there? So I think this could be a really nice Addition to that because this goes into Drupal and I want to have a look with you at the things We are doing right now what we can improve on the editor experience in in all kinds of areas There's so many things to talk about in this topic that The session I held this session before in Barcelona during the deaf days and I also held this At the front and United because this is a topic that concerns a lot of people working in different areas with Drupal but it's there's quite a few things we we could cover and talk about and So I will try to do my best and give a good overview But I encourage you to just step in ask questions while we're doing this because I think there's so many things That I will run out of time anyways So and I don't want to get in the situation where we don't have time to ask questions in the end So feel free to come in It's a topic that concerns us all from different Experiences that we have with our clients and with our projects So just raise your hands ask questions when you feel that there's something that interests you and we can talk about this Oh, there's the first one Yeah, sure So is this better? Yes, great wonderful So as I said building for the editor experience So let's let's see where we at First of all, we have to see who is an editor, you know, because there's a whole lot different people working with Drupal And so let's look at the roles that we have in real life Not these roles for permissions that we might end up with Configuration and Drupal, but what are roles in real life? There's content authors. They are creating content. There's editors That are have to deal with that was has has been created or create content on their own There's people coming in translating There's maybe people in bigger projects that are just dealing with assets like pictures or videos and all that stuff So we need to focus on what they want to achieve when they work with Drupal when they try to Deal with the content. It's a content management system and there's people really Having different tasks they want to achieve and they don't want to be bothered with all of them With all the interface that we have there. So this is one of the challenges that we are facing. So let's see There's these these different roles. There's these different people and you have to when you when you do an interface for for different people that do different things and behave different and also for maybe different clients and their their topics you have to try to picture them who they are and what they're going to do and and and this is a good basis to find out how their interface and their workflows in terms of creating content managing content finding translating and all that Things have to work for them So first of all, yeah We should set up these roles. We should have configure for them But this is this is just a teeny tiny step on the way We should start start from the beginning and test we test on our user stories We have to be we go in there picture what somebody has to do not only in the front end not only by Leaving a comment or using the the gallery pictures or something like that but also for the back end where where somebody starts his work with a blank page or with a new menu item and And another person comes in and tries to Configure something or place some blocks there. So we should really start test early and picture the personas here and As as far as the permission system goes, it's not a replacement for a good interface strategy We have to do a lot of of configuration there that we can Work with the permissions that the people only see what they have to deal with or only are allowed to what To work with this stuff that really has to concern them But you you can't just rely on Configuring permissions and everything is done because there will be a lot of areas where people would be allowed to do something But it's not good for them to have so many options. So let's look at that so for really Finding out what we can do for the for the editors. We have to picture what what does an editor really want and You know The first thing that comes to mind is he wants to create pages the people think in my website my I want to have a page here I want to have a New content there and I want to have a new menu item And maybe I want to find and select content or link content But this is shown all already an advanced topic or I wanted to translate the text and All these things like that so but What do they really think when they approach the task of? Creating and dealing with content they think in pages how cell a page look like what items I want to place there How is this? How can a user in the front and find the page and where do I where do I place my contents there? so here's a screenshot that's Create was a created a long Not a long time ago, but a while ago that was a discussion of the usability group that led to in this direction what we have now the layouts and blocks initiative that would they did an analysis of or Did try to picture of how a normal person thinks normally? There's in this there's a link for that you can read up on that There's two screenshots the other one shows how we think how we think in terms of here's a note Here's a block. Here's a pain. Here's some navigation. This is a footer area, but You know an editor he looks at the page and for every everything is content for him It doesn't matter for him it that this is a slideshow or this is some views output Everything is this content and so he wants to approach this for like I want to edit this So everything is content. I want to go here add a picture I want to translate this text this I have right here in front of me and Maybe I want to add another item to this list. So how can I do this and we have to Think and plan for that and build our sites that these tasks can be completed and another thing is We we always have this mixture of maybe I call them automatic Versus manual pages. There's people coming in like for a newspaper Thing where they say okay. I have this place I think many of of you guys that are Germans and I know these project was type of free There's a lot of thinking in this area We have a we have a tree of Of our offer of our menu and then we want to place some contents there And this is something that is really similar to the people are thinking Placing doing manual pages, but on the other hand We have this great toolbox with Drupal where we can have views and lists and and all different blocks querying Content from the database and presenting it and this is this is more of an automatic approach But it's never you know separated you never have a project where everything it gets output by views And you never have a project where every page is you know created arbitrary So yeah So the question was if I have a solution for inline editing of all that kinds of stuff No, I haven't but there's a really good approaches and there's also a really good things you can do in this area because the things start with the little things if you have a list of news items with a view you could just provide with the contextual links that are Configurable by by a programmer or you could provide a button in the header to add a new Content of this type that is gets listed by this view And this is one step in the way to just having in this page that I'm looking at to add something or You could like I said before enhance these contextual links to get more Out of that and obviously there's a panels and panelizer and the in-place editor which which really helps in Dealing with these pages most of them Tending to be more manually arbitrarily Created together, but still also for these automatic things you can deal with this Okay So but most of the time we have a mixture So we have to plan for that that there will be somebody sitting there and saying okay. I want to change this I want to reorder The the views output that I have here. I want to add something so we need to find solutions there So Also what comes up is there an editing mode? This is somehow drawing the line before be between Maybe in place editing editing from starting from the front and and going in in the back and listing Contents finding content there editing and hoping that everything gets put out Correctly or new adding new products and in in the repository where all the products live where which you can find at the content listing so we have to picture for each project and and The users we know that we have to deal with this How they cross the line between back-end and front-end is other is there really a Situation where we where everybody can just work in the front-end in line edit. I think you know when we Look at this spark initiative. It will help a great deal with these With these situations where somebody looks at a patient says I wanted I want to edit this But we have all we have to also think about all these other things where we have to find the content and you know Provide an interface for the for all types of editors So let's have it just a look at the at the thing that we are dealing with with Drupal There's points where Drupal makes our life harder We have that these situations where the chronological order in in the workflow that an editor has to take is maybe Feels a little reverse for a lot of editors We have not we have no no distinct or not, you know unique system for structuring content We can do so many things we can have Taxonomy menus we can have regular menus where you create manual manual menu items. We can Have views collect stuff. We can order this by by date. So this this is a thing where we have many of these Different approaches we have to do deal with that because our editors have to understand that and Sometimes we have a little bit much of an interface because there's so many configuration options and things you can Change and alter which is really great, but we have to deal with that for somebody who's not that savvy that we are And the configuration options are all over the place place So if we look at the admin menu when we have a full site install of a really Site loaded with functionality. This is not good for an editor and The more functionality we add it that leads to loss of consistency as I mentioned before You have maybe the standard menu and you have a menu block and you have taxonomy menu And you have Drupal blocks and views blocks and views content panes and note blocks and mini panels and all they have a little bit different interfaces and all of them are not really understandable from the first point of Seeing them for somebody who is not a techie But on the other hand what What where is the points where Drupal makes our life easier? We have a framework We have a great architecture and we have all these possibilities for the for the developers using hooks to alter the stuff that's there and there's a lot of modules that help us in Making a better interface and we have a big community that that we see right now That is really concerned with these topics and tries to work with them in all these different approaches so What do you hear a lot is that an interface should be simple and intuitive That's as easy to say, but we have to you know implement that so what we what we would might need there is something fast efficient and what we should do is avoid confusion and Have less as less Unnecessary UI as we can do so That nobody is sitting there and really crying for help. We have to deal with that. So but do we do that by providing help? There's a lot of projects where people go in provide huge amounts of documentation Have screenshots annotated with with arrows and little remarks or do Screencasts with with which is all is helpful, but maybe as we heard before in the session Things should be in the first place as Simple as they can be and then you don't have so much work for explaining them So do it does anybody need help? I think Sometimes less help is more and we should approach the things like you know guide the people through the tasks They have to do and we have to do this visually and by structure And I say don't think maybe about help text think more action button So if we look at a help interface in Drupal, this is really I looked for the worst-case scenario. Yeah, this is Advanced help installed and you know, there's a lot of text if you have time and you're interested You can read this and it will be helpful because somebody that put it together has really good information for that But it's normally you need help on the spot or you have to understand something on the spot so Let's look at something. This is the interface for the main menu creating menu links So if you look at that screen What is the most important action? It's really hard to tell, you know, there's main menu There's save what I'm am I saving here and there's test page, okay? I can click edit description and there's this thing add link So it's it's often we and we when we look at our Drupal interface is not easy to find out what we what we have to do next or if we look at that something else like this is the the page manager of panels or he Where the interface gets more and more complicated and people really have a hard time to find the way around I think I know this is a really hard example because you never would go there and try to Root an editor some people do this But you'll root an editor on this page and say hey you have to can configure or create something here This is really a worst-case scenario, but I think you get the you get the point there So what can we do, you know, we need we need to focus on the things and Really provide a visual guidance for the people what they have to do next and this is a small example I took here from this dollar shave club website. We see where it's really obvious what you would do next you just do it and That guides somebody to something you don't need to help text here you maybe have these screens here that they explain a little bit but The next thing maybe apart from watching the video will be do it so That leads to the topic guiding through forms so about the structure of forms and visually guiding the editors if they have if we can provide a system where the People know what this what they have to do next This will help them greatly to deal with creating content So this is an example of A form for a recipe. This is a code was a project. We did for a cooking community The German people will be able to read this better, but this is a form for a recipe and As you see here There's help when you need it There's little tooltips where you can where I can find a help if you really get lost in the stage of Editing that you are but it doesn't obstruct your your view from all the rest of the form. This is one thing or Like here on as you can see here a little bit on the bottom It tells you how many how many characters you can put in this field or on the on the other side There's something for uploading the recipe pictures and you see instantly the first picture is a little bit bigger That will be the promoted picture of the recipe. That's really easy to understand for an editor. This is just the small things you can do here and you see it started with with a point one and this is point two and so you have for your People working with that you have a structure where they know okay. I have to complete my tasks somehow. Yeah This will be Information about the recipes you see these groups of things. They have to fill in here This is all structured a little bit so that they know. Okay. How can we go there through this step by step and Finally You see this is the eighth step. So there has been a lot more in between But by separating this and guiding the people It makes it a little bit easier and even if you have to deal with these complex things, you know and an interface Cannot be less complex than the task you have to complete But on the other hand, it mustn't be much harder than this Thing you are trying to do. So if you have to collect collect many information Did the people obviously have to do this but they don't have to you know Be in pain while doing this but It says finally but are really finally there I Will not quite because there's some questions that we carry around for some years in Drupal one is this encircled red thing here the preview button it it's German it says foreshadow but that means in English means preview and Obviously that shouldn't be there because it never worked. Yeah So this is a thing we have to address this is also another thing we might be addressing with like just save it and Go back and inline edit the rest of the stuff that when you see your page and start working there or You have to implement something really intelligently to really have a preview, but right now You're really struggling. Yes And in this example, it doesn't work because you your question was If the preview in this example didn't work or in Drupal in general in this example, it doesn't work Because it doesn't work in in Drupal in general because you get a view, you know You get a preview. Yeah, but you get the preview as soon as you use an admin theme you get the preview in the admin theme and so you never get a real preview on your content if you If you ever used the the Drupal interface there, you can see how the content is structured You can see the filtering maybe, you know, because but Who understands filtering, you know as an editor, but this is not hold on hold another point But you would like to see the preview how it looks on the page And there's so many other things coming in with that Like other blocks and other stuff and there's these other theme that really makes things really different What and all of that? Yes, you're correct. And he said and an additional edit form. Yes, and and Also, the question arises. We had some talks with some Colleagues here and why why don't we save right away? This is not a question. I can answer here either Yeah, but this is because this is a really a Drupal internal, but this is Also a thing we we should think about You know if you use Google Docs you open up a new document and it gets instantly saved with untitled document And you can later go in change this Obviously, we have a lot of things we're dealing with here because we have required fields and all of that, but That would be a nice thing to have in the future. Just hey save Don't let the users worry about that Clearly there's a lot of things to to deal with there because we have like workflows and everything, but yeah Yeah, that's you you you mentioned the problem, you know That we might have a workflow and and different Versions of that stuff. This is a whole different area again, and I I strongly encourage that we talk a little bit later I think because We could talk another two hours about that also, but you're perfectly correct Versioning and dealing with that stuff is also really hard for it because it's also a really abstract concept for the for the editors You know, they don't want to care about this So let's go on a little bit Optimizing nodeforms we have seen a little bit about structuring long forms But also we have this separation. There's might there might be advanced options or attributes or metadata like like having the page title or the menu item or The description of the meta tags or something we put there for separating this product product from another product and all of that kind of stuff and There's one Really important thing Which has a star here semantic content types This is also a good approach for making the the content editor's life a lot a lot easier. We have a lot of these Content types where we we create That have a purpose so there's it's a it's a product or it's a news item or It's a gallery or it's an image or it's in video and we have to really take care about that this is as semantic as it can come so that An editor instantly knows I'm creating this and that will have this output It's not always easy with these things We have these arbitrary pages where you have maybe a layout and you would put something there or you have this basic page But it's always good to think where are opportunities to give the the editor a semantic context or to build a content type that is semantically in this area how he's thinking or how his company thinks so that will also help him really to Achieve the desires or results much faster reduce abstraction Not not not go in there and have an article with like 15 options if this is I don't know A news article or a blog article or or another thing It always comes down to seeing what you have in the in your concept for your client, but this also Really helps a great deal because people understand these things that created like in their everyday in their business life a lot better So how to deal with long forms we have been we have been seeing a lot of stuff and what is about configuration and content You have to think about what the your interface is used for We hear this screenshot is is the configuration of the mother mother ship theme that Martin did For this type of input This might be perfect because you have so many you have you go in there and you have a choice of things You want to get a good overview of what you want to configure but for a if you if you look at this interface with multiple accordions or Collapsible containers that wouldn't work for something where it's content where you want to see everything you have to put in there so for for you have to also Think what are you doing there? Is this a is this a piece of content? Is this something you have to fill out completely or you where you have to see all the options? Or is this something where you go in find something what you want to change and you Decollapsed the the container and go in there edit this save and come back later at any time and find another option You might change and this is also a thing where you have to Really think about that not obstructing The the flow that the people are having or providing something that this gets and gives you a good overview so if I Talked about separating content from added attributes or metadata what I'm doing a lot of times is I'm building a simple Concept where I have like two columns and Like it like you see in most in a lot of front-ends We're going in and separate on the light-hand left-hand side You have all the data that might get output on your page So the editors know okay This is my area where I have all these information that leads to the content that gets put out on the side And on the right-hand side, there's more like the metadata like like here It's a product you can choose in which sector this product has to be placed Like is it publishing digital business? This was for a Publishing house or what type is it? This is more a product or more a service So you could argue like I said before maybe you should separate this because this for your editor Is this more simple to have the product and the service? That really depends on the use case you're having there But here you have at least you have a separation between the metadata or the attributes and the main data And so that will help also the user to separate this you can easily achieve this Just by using the field group module and putting in like to open divs give them a class and Now we have two columns You don't need to worry about a lot of things you have to do there and you can replicate this for all your product I think there was a question in there from behind Okay, great So and when you look at that You also have to think about it. What is important? I have the screenshot here. That was a Just a work in progress there and you see obviously there's somebody came in and said, okay This is obviously it's important to set the language correctly even the label got got a more important color and So but you know this is this might be good But you sort you should sort this things correctly if this language switch is so important put it on the top You know make it there the editor is easier to deal with this or here On up on top. It says this is a media content type. So The image which is obviously the most important part for this media thing here should also be on top Why should the date come first which is Maybe the the second or third important thing we're editing here So structuring that correctly also helps the editors a great deal of completing the form in timely fashion so here I put in a screenshot where Similar concept is what we have right now, which is planned for for Drupal 8 this is a this was a Demo site they they put up for for showing this new content edit form for a Drupal 8 and Also, they have a separation what we had in the vertical tabs before on the bottom where Which was really great because it it compressed the form a little but on the other hand You found out that people really were clicking through all of them to find out what they have to do there And it was from the placement here and not not as perfect as it could be So they moved it also to her sidebar here And I think this is a great thing because it doesn't obstruct the the view on on the content You're creating here, but also provides an a good Attention to the things you also have to deal with like if the content gets published or promoted and all that stuff So yeah, there's a question I think this is a good combination that the question was if the if this You mean collapsible sidebar in that the whole sidebar is collapsing or that you have these collapsible elements in the sidebar Yeah, so like it's shown here. Yeah, I think it's it's it's a good compromise you know because when you have you you get a great deal of attention because it's placed at the right top area where you really see the things but also It you don't you don't have to see everything you just know, you know when you label the things correctly You you just know when you have to click menu settings And you just know when you when you want to go in and deal with the common settings or the authoring information So I think this is a good compromise I think some of the modules will have to see how they can deal with this confined space they are having and obviously that needs a solution for a mobile But I think it's a good start So if you can and you can read up more on the history, there's the links there And I think there should be a session on that too or it has been I don't know So coming back to our interface problems. It's really easy to get confused by an interface with too many controls Look at this. This is a this is a configuration screen For a custom panel page and there's so many things there's so many tabs and buttons and and and vertical tabs and text and everything this is this is even hard for for a seasoned Drupal developer when he when he gets there the first time Because there's so many things to do and it's not really clear what you do there So you need really time to work on this, but Can't this be easier That's our interfaces, you know, have to have to have everything in there Or can we stream like this the light in this down? I don't know if this picture he is the best solution, you know, just having on and off but we should always when we do These things and build the sites together have a look at what we can do there to improve and to move the things a way that you don't need to deal with in your role like I stated before because you're having a role that you don't want to Configure all if you're an editor you want to get your job done. So Let's look at the same interface With almost the same options. This is the in-place editor for the same page This is much much more clearer. You have also your layout options. You have your columns You have your your your way of adding something new and you have just a few Buttons you can always go in there and say hey We could lose a few of them still but it's much much cleaner You know, you could argue why why do you have a button for for with the cock wheels for the settings and next to that You have a button for the for the panel styles. Why don't you edit this in one area? But there's always the case that you argue on on this things But if you look at this this is much much more clean and much more from comprehensive and also, you know Looking at at the needs of an editor you obviously have to provide him an interface that that has only the The options that he really needs. So this is an example for an extra menu but you can also achieve this by doing a good configuration of of all the menu excess you have for your editor because They want to have maybe an overview of what they have to do or what they have for content They want to have an area where they can find their content. They want to deal with the structure There might be even even the case that there's that there's a role that doesn't deal with the structure And you have another role that That will do that for that for them. So you can even reduce this maybe more and There's will be somebody who deals with translation but Hey, the site configuration is something that might not be the thing what then what an editor does there So give them a separate menu or try to enhance this that maybe the admin menu that they're using gets reduced to a sane amount of menu items the people can use there and maybe if you get some space back Make us a little bit bigger the people can click on that a lot easier and You know what I also think of what be a good approach is to provide an area if you if you if you live in the back End as an editor and try to find your content Provide them within the area Where they can find the things they have to deal with that might be something different that another an asset manager has to deal with and Think about what will they do will they have to find the content will they have to Configure add new items for the taxonomy place the things there and This is an example of the the workbench meant module that is really known for his workbench moderation Which is also a great thing, but also they bring a little Dashboard area here, which is highly configurable. You can place a lot of different views there and a lot of different stuff There's There's some other modules that do something similar There's also link here for the context admin menu that provides you with a possibility to Have custom admin pages, you know for just people that have to just deal with With one the cap vocabulary or two vocabulary of the 20 you have there so he can provide them their own admin pages and Just deal with them and not be dealing with other stuff They don't need to do with Yeah Let me see at the time Okay so What also is really important is since we are putting in most of the time they're putting in content We have this great system of the field UI providing them with fields But we have to find the right widgets that they can complete their task in a in a way that they don't get Really distracted of their task so finally the right widget and I also called it the select box from hell because this is one of the Interface elements where everybody knows that we have we have a problem that's not a Drupal related problem and and We will see that Drupal has a lot of modules that solve the problem really good But we have to think What are the the people wanting to how one how do the people want to use their select box? so As we all know the problems with the select box is selecting multiple items or you know Finding everything in in in one view So here's some modules that deal with this in a nice way There's the multi-select module that provides these two panes where you can move the things around Which is a great concept for you know seeing what is selected or not or this there's this chosen module that gives you like a combination of select lists and And you see that the selected items on top there and There's this module select or other that provides provides another Good thing where you can say okay I can select between these predefined options But I also have the possibility to put some in something new that greatly helps the editors to because they have some Guidance what they can use and they can also bring in their Own things or this thing here multiple selects may have a way of selecting and ordering in a in a good combination because you can select the stuff and you also can put this in an order and You know one of the things we we have to deal with a lot of times Authors have to set a date when they authored the content because sometimes we have these things that get sorted by date and You have to change that in some way to rearrange that this is the most simple basic idea of something in a view For sorting, but you have to type in a date maybe in in some obscure format So why don't have we why don't do we have a pop-up here? So there's a module for that that helps you to have this little date pop-up for your author date you obviously could go in and and activate some HTML 5 for that which would also be a good idea, I think and Another thing you have to prevent The validation failure people are putting stuff in there You could put a text there, but we talked about help You could say hey you can and at Thursdays you can have 235 characters here and because you're doing this and that but you just could also count the characters and tell the people Hey, you have three characters left. You don't have to cut them count them on their own There's a module for that and it really helps a Great deal because you don't save the form wait for PHP and your Apache server to get you get back with the Information that you have to put in you you put in two three characters too much So this is a this is also a great topic or a big topic validation and errors So from an editor perspective, I want to see my errors fast and you know I want to I want to know where this error occurred that you know Unfortunately happened so When you when we look at Drupal right now out of the box we we provide with these with these error in this message area Which is which is okay, but as soon as the the forms get longer or errors occur in other forms like the Yeah in other forms like that the note forms where you connect this this message area with because it's always on The same page on the top. You never know where you really have to look and find and correct your error. So This is the thing that really that really blocks editors in their way of working with that and Also, this is about client validate client side validation. Why should we wait for? For the reload of the page to see which errors we did so there's a module client side validation that does its job there it it Provides us the same validation Things that the PHP is providing and Also, you can put in HTML elements there to help the People prevent These errors they might occur because they have an element that is more more usable intuitively and As I said, you need to see the error messages right where they occur If you have an error in a comment form, it's not it's not good to have the error in the message area on top of the page because hey The the error occurred in your in your comment and not anywhere else And there your page doesn't have to be scrolling away from the from the place where you have been editing light Minute or a second before So there's this a project called inline messages that puts the messages In line to the to the forms where they occurred and there's a similar project called inline form error errors, which is I FE Yeah, you could look at it Maybe that helps your editors to work with these problematic situations but also Where it gets complicated where we have these abstract situations because filling out a form to get a content that gets placed on a page is you know can can be kind of abstract but As soon as it comes to finding selecting and linking content like linking an image to an to a content or linking a user To to some content this it gets quite abstract and it's a lot that the editors have to deal with So we should make at least a task to do that after they know they have to achieve this a little bit easier So in a lot of situations we have these autocompletes, which is great at up to some point But not always the best solution so If you look at that screen here there's an autocomplete for for for nodes that you can place into a panel and You know you can you can you can start typing and you get titles back But what what do you do if there's two? two Identic titles there's two contents with the same title Okay, you have a little bit of metadata because it's this was the test page was created by admin But if you don't have so many users you could run into problems there or These results that you're getting there are really limited to a certain amount. I think it's 25 or so So if there's mere more results than you can you know find by typing in you're also lost So you need something that Helps you there a little bit better So why not have an autocomplete with metadata? There's this link it module that provides a separation what content types you're dealing with you configure You can configure of to show the authors to show the created date that helps That helps a lot if on finding and completing this task, but you can Do even more Why not, you know, this is this is this is an enhancement of of the node relation and user relationship field Often you have you just you have an autocomplete there you have to put in a title and you have to link to an user By its username or you have to link to it to an content by its content title, but often I said it before when I when I started this talk often the Chronological order for the editors it feels reversed Because they have to have created the content that they are linking to before they can link to it So in this situation, it's really nice to have like this here Like the node connect and the node ref these references dialogue module they provide these buttons to say hey I want to add this what is in there or I want to create something new in this area We need to link news so I can create a new news item So I can right go in there start creating something new and get instantly back to my form and have the link to that so that feels a lot more natural to to an editor and The two modules they are different in and how they do is one does it with a with a modal window and the other one Forwards you to the new form and gets you back to the old form This is I think depends on the situation you want to use this But from the concept from the concept aspect. This is really an enhancement and Another step further Would be you know having a view to choose your content like creating a custom view that suits your site the needs The different content types you have there maybe sub attributes and everything you can Use with a views interface here to select your content That was a proof of concept that we did there Sandbox module where we work for a client and we just went in there and put in a view there with a little bit JavaScript that was got rendered into inside the form for selecting the content there No, this is this is just this is just a similar area We where you might think about that the reference dialogue has has this this feature of Yes Yeah, you're right. You're right. So what what what the guy here was saying is with the with the References dialogue module you can use a similar thing that you can have a view there for for selecting your content Which is really a great thing because there you can really Configure this that it fits to the site you're building there and fit to the editors in this situation They have to link to the content so and also here we have a screenshot of Something where you where you're on a on a panel's page and you use the panels that the C tools content plug-ins Where you want to place an existing content? This was also a thing we did for a client We went in there. Hey, maybe you just don't want to just link to an existing content That's already there. Maybe you want to create a new panel pane With a new content that hasn't been there at this moment because the editor He works on his page and he decides I want to have something new there so we build on top of that and put in some links Which also use the same model for creating a new Layout or a new gallery or a new media item, whatever we had there of content types And so you can have a workflow that leads from being on the page Putting it wanting to put a panel pane there with a content that it's not created do this Finish the task and have the new content there a Similar project that that this is a sandbox that we did you can look this up and try it on your own But on the other hand, there's also a project that's relatively new. It's called fieldable panel panes that does is that brings in a new entity like the like the Custom panes we had before but you can feel them and that that also helps in just being in this dialogue creating a new instance of Such an entity That you provide there you even can decide if you want to reuse this and find this in a listing of the content Or you want to have just place it there So you should definitely have a look at that because this will help also in this type of workflow so There's another area where it really where we have a really a little bit problematic situation For the editors because if they want to deal with the menu and this is what a lot of Editors think hey, I want to have a new menu entry that leads to a new page So what they what do they do in Drupal? They go they maybe Maybe they know okay I can create a content and have you know click this link and add menu item to that But most of the thing most of the time that the editors think in okay I have this menu here, and I want to add a new item with with its page or with its content or with whichever is Sitting there. So when we look at the at the standard menu interface, it's pretty isolated We can create an a menu item, but we have To know the path So hey, this is not this is not an easy situation for an editor because hey You have to open up another tab to find out the URL or what so or you can type something like node at a lot of people Type node add and hope it will help them So you have to know the path. This is not a good situation because you know people get stuck in this situation so we were we were sitting down and thinking how how can we make this better and and made some plans for that and my colleague Daniel he started and Did this new module that's called content menu? That helps with that, you know, it makes it makes it possible to create a new menu item and That can point to a new URL or it can you can create a new content with it and you get instantly forwarded to the to the Node edit form to fill out the rest of the fields as far as you want for the content and then get back to the To the menu as you can see here It's it's a little bit Done like the fields UI where you can have a new entry on on the bottom Type in the the title and then choose if you want to have a URL or something else Like a new page and or link to an existing content Which also is a is a nice view where you can select the content with a configurable view to find that And that helps the editors to to get from the start to the end because they can have a new new menu item Decide for what they want to have there. They can obviously use what always has been there the URL They even can create a dummy if they just want to build a menu structure and that leads to a much much Better workflow in this area So this is an overview, you know creating menu item deciding for that getting forwarded to the Node ad page Where everything is already filled out for you and then getting back to the main menu after saving and This is a good Nice and a circular workflow and same goes for the existing content choose existing content get to your view Select the content and get back to the main menu and this is a nice way of dealing with that so there's was a lot of examples and You know, I I sort of rushed through the presentation. I almost made it to get back in time Yeah, thank you. Are there any questions? No, the question was if I did check out the menu editor module. No, I don't know that I would really love to talk with you about that because I'm always looking for new solutions for for these Topics, I didn't want to provide a really complete overview of all modules that help you there But I just wanted to tell you what are these tasks these problems that our editors are facing And it's really great to have different solutions. So we should sit down. So how was the module called menu editor? Interesting. Yeah, you know my colleague Daniel who created the module is over there So maybe you could get your heads together and I don't know was he here Maybe he has gone it was here before but I can point you in this direction And then you could put your heads together and find common grounds and and maybe you know Work on this little further because I think this is an important task. There was somebody else No, there's nothing that comes to mind but here Yeah, if you expand on that, you could But I also with the menu editor people ask me for paging. Yeah Yeah, so I think to sum this up your question was well how to deal with really long menu structures We can get an overview. This is obviously a problem. I don't know many good solutions to that You talked about a lot of what what possible solutions there could be like, you know paging or getting getting this more Compact but sometimes also these approaches to solutions create more problems I think, you know, you never can it can avoid you not always can avoid these situations but Maybe there's a that there one approach would be consulting the client and telling him. Hey, do you really need such a? complex menu structure, but You know, this is this is not a that's what that was not the interface answer I could give there, but I think it could be a good approach, you know Because these menu structures tend to also confuse the front end users, but Yeah, yeah Yeah Yeah, yeah, we got feedback from clients, but also there's usability studies There's a lot of them and and they show that, you know The the compression and that the users users of the space Okay, we are talking about vertical tabs here. By the way, I have to repeat all these questions We're talking about the vertical tabs So this is nice from from the the aspect of how much space we use but Users studies showed that people are clicking through all of them to find out what is hidden behind that I think over there is somebody who wants to say something about that Okay, I try to repeat all that There is there You mentioned this problem that you have to save the save button right underneath the vertical tabs And the users get the idea that they have to save everything that they are editing there And what happens is obviously not that the thing they Were hoping that would happen because they get redirected to the save page or anything like that Let me say just one thing before we continue with the questions, but I see the people leaving I will really be happy to talk more with you about that. So let's get together We make a buffer we get together somehow and exchange all these Ideas problems with that we were facing because I'm also interested in what every what every other person has to deal with so Find me and hopefully we can talk about this a little bit more because we are I don't know We run we might be running out of time So I'll be here and I'll be really happy to talk with everybody and Yeah, so Yeah, actually, I don't know how to do this Yes, I propose above. Yeah so Yeah, I Don't know if we find slots or however we do that this Logistically, but I think we can I can manage this because everybody else also did it so Yeah, thank you for being here. Yeah, and have a nice conference. Welcome to Munich