 Hello, everyone. Welcome. We're going to get started right now. Just going to, there we go, not screen sharing anymore. Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to reimagined theater, a panel series that brings artists and community leaders together to envision a new theatrical world. My name is number Nelson, I'm the director of arts engagement at Seattle breath. I'll give a physical description for blind and low vision audiences. I am a lighter skinned woman with short brown hair, a teal shirt and behind me is a black and white photo. I'd like to acknowledge that we're on the traditional land of the coast Salish people, including the Duwamish people past and present. We honor with gratitude the land itself and the Duwamish tribe. Land acknowledgement does not take the place of authentic relationships with indigenous communities, but serves as a first step in honoring the land we are on. And if you want to know more about indigenous communities and organizations that are local to the Seattle area, you can check out the land acknowledgement page on the Seattle rep website. I want to take a moment to thank everyone who's working for black justice in myriad ways in the face of so much injustice, Brianna's tailors trial notwithstanding black lives matter and I deeply appreciate every one of the panelists being here to have this conversation today. I'm going to show you all these panels so that we can envision a future of equity and justice and imagine what that might look like and how the arts and theater sector specifically should be a part of that and be a consistent part of community voice. The questions for this discussion are if you could wave a magic wand and build a new theater landscape. What would you create. What is the theater landscape that centers black voices equitably. And what does theater at the heart of public life look like. So now I'm going to pass it along to Alex read my co facilitator for this panel, and the rest of the panelists so they can introduce themselves. I am Alex Lee read. I am the youth engagement manager at Seattle rep. I will describe myself. I am a light skinned black person with black locks with red tips up in a bun, wearing a yellow sweater, and behind me is a fish tank and a bookshelf. Like I said, I'm the youth engagement manager at Seattle rep, which means that I take my lead from the young people and educators in our community. I also am a playwright director and sometimes performer community cheerleader. I would like to go ahead and throw it to our panelists to each introduce themselves. I suppose I will give you an order. So panelists when you introduce yourselves. Feel free to share whatever you want to about who you are as humans, as artists and what your connection is to theater and community here in Seattle. I'll go ahead and throw it to Donald bird up first. Right, I knew it was going to be me because I didn't want to post so the universe has a way of doing that. My name is Donald bird. I am the artistic director at spectrum dance theater. I am a, I guess I'm medium brown, completed black person. And I'm, I'm sitting in my office and behind me are a bunch of boxes that has archival material in it. In fact, this room is a mess. So just like my life in some ways, you know, so anyway, that's what that's what it looks like. I think the question was what, what my relationship is to Seattle main spectrum dance theater has been a part. I mean, I've been here since 2002 December one 2002 was my first day work and I have tried and to really engage myself with the with the Seattle community. One of the things that over the course of the top 17 almost 18 years that I've been here is what I've noticed is the emergence of more black and people of color dance folk because that's where I work primarily, but I think also seeing more black people in general practitioners involved in the theater and to meet young people and that is really, really, really exciting. That's the most exciting thing about living here now for me is seeing that. Thanks, Donald. Sharon. Thank you, Alex. Hi, Donald. Love you. Hello, everyone. I am Sharon Ivy Williams. My pronouns are she heard. I am a carmel complexion. I have some tan locks falling over my right eye. Behind me I have a red and black curtain and a red black and yellow painting and just darkness for effect. And I'm wearing a black shirt with feed worldwide on it and blue and gold. Yes. That's a whole nother story. I'm so I am the executive director for the central district form for arts and ideas. We present produced develop black artists and share black experiences. We have been around for over 21 years. I've been running the organization going on eight woo woo. I was founded by Stephanie Ellis Smith specifically for the central district and knowing that at the time the central district was the black hub for black people and felt as though we needed more work that created created it with that was thought provoking. I'm a story teller. I do it in various genres from poetry to solo performance. And I've been in working in the arts in Seattle for over 16 years. And one of my first early on gigs and getting introduced to the theater community was as an intern at the Seattle rep. And what I what I like about where I am in Seattle is that I found myself here. I've been able to live my dream here in working with the arts and uplifting black voices. Thank you Alex. Thank you Sharon. Julie. Hello. My name is Julie Ferris in my paid job. I am an attorney in Seattle. I am a native Seattleite. So I can remember when all of y'all arrived off the scene and an enthusiastic arts consumer and supporter. I am a member of the board of trustees for the Seattle rep and have been a board member for other arts organizations in my adult life and mostly just enthusiastic about the arts and theater and dance as an audience member. And as a member of this community. Thank you Julie. Valerie hello. Hi Alex. For the listeners I am. I would say, at least at this point in the fall, I would call myself a milk chocolate black woman with gap teeth and gray hair. In the middle of winter, that will be a different description completely. I'm currently the head of directing at the University of Washington School of Drama. And I'm one of the co-founders and artistic director of the Hansberry project, which is a black theater company here in Seattle. We celebrate support and present the work of black theater artists. I'm a freelance director and have worked at many theaters around town. And my, in my spare time I do write a little bit I finally finished this play I've had for five years so I'm ready to like let it loose. And I think the only other thing I would say about my relationship to this community is that I arrived here as a graduate student and I found a way to make a life here and am still here working. I also now because I'm at the, I'm at the age I'm at that I get to actually do work in other parts of the country and so being able to call Seattle my home and use it as a launching pad to get to the other places I want to get to has been a really, really useful and powerful experience. I'm very committed to the people of this city, and I especially want to see black artists thrive. So, thank you, Alex. Thank you, Val. Ms. Toya Taylor. Hey. Hey Alex, I knew you were going to make me go after Valerie. I called it too. I knew it, but that's my sister and I love her so it's an honor. I would describe myself as a bronze hue melanated sister with high cheekbones passed down from my West Indian at ancestors. I have a woman shaped eyes that I adore from my father. I have braids right now that go down my back midsection and a smile that I, I radiate, I think, shows how I feel about blackness and how I feel about children. So when you see me smile, those are the things that I'm thinking about and I'm proud about. I am the founder of we app we act presenting perform, which is a public speaking organization for children in Seattle Public Schools is the only public speaking class offered during the day as part of curriculum. What we do is we take children who are silent are silenced in the back of the classroom, and we teach them how to be the voices we teach them how to be bold in the front. And so my medium I, I came into this world of the spoken word artist. And, but my, my life passion is oratory, speaking into existence, who we are, and how we see ourselves. Thank you, Toya. And finally, Deidra. Thank you, Alex. I'm so excited and grateful to be here in this virtual room with all these amazing people. My name is Deidra Woods, I am a yes it's still in the summer so kind of medium brown skin black woman with short to shortish medium hair twist out. In my background I have a orange and kind of yellow faux flower. I'm wearing a green shirt. And I am an actor storyteller. And I am the creator of a digital platform car called artists of color Seattle AOC 206 where I are mission my mission is to uplift the voices of black, brown indigenous people of color artists here in Seattle and beyond. Giving voice to our artistry, our activism and our hearts desires through a non white gaze. I've been in Seattle about since 2012, which seems crazy, working primarily as an actor but also I'm an educator too. So I love the babies I work with the kids. And my passion for lifting black voices is only growing during this time. So I'm grateful for this conversation that we're having now. Thank you Deidra and thank you all for being here. So the way this is going to roll. We're going to start with our guiding question. And then we'll let the conversation kind of go the way that it goes. I've got some questions in mind that we may get to in this conversation or we may not. But what's really important here. What feels really important here is to give all of you opportunity and space to just speak honestly on the world of theater that we want to and will create together. So that being said, our first kind of driving question. If you could wave a magic wand and build a totally new from scratch from the ground up theater landscape. What what does that look like what does, what does it feel essential to have in this world. What is the dream dried out for us. Anyone feel free I think we'll find kind of the best rhythm. I don't want to put anyone on the spot necessarily just yet. Alex, I'll jump in. That's what I do I jump in. I love that. The foundation of whatever this new landscape is going to be. It's going to rest on the equitable distribution of resources. So that if we have the money to build the thing strong and high it'll be built strong and high. What many global majority organizations spend their time doing is trying to make a dollar out of 15 cents. So in order for us to really allow our imaginations to flourish. We've got to be able to not only have the vision but then have the resources to make the vision tangible. So I think that equitable resources is one. I think a commitment to truth telling is another. It's that everybody can tell the truth of their experience and I think that that's a 360 degree experience when you can tell the truth. I could tell all the bad things because I can tell all the good things and and promote an accurate depiction of my community in particular. I think that so that's the second thing and then I think the last thing is an audience that is willing to go on the ride and willing to be exposed to things beyond their immediate experience. So that's where that's where I that's where I would start. Thank you, Val. I'll jump in. I totally agree with everything that Val said and I had truth telling on my list of things to say as well. Well, but in addition to what Val said freedom. Freedom to enter spaces and to be ourselves and to have the freedom to communicate to whoever theaters put together as a team, our truth and not being judged or misjudged about how we see ourselves in our community. Also, seeing us beyond not seeing us beyond color I would never say that, but seeing that we have skills that translate in programming that isn't necessarily black. Valerie Curtis Newton and Donald Bird can direct any kind of show if they're giving the opportunity to, although the love is for telling black stories. Just like they allow white directors to direct black shows. I don't understand why it isn't in reverse. I think an equitable theater has that in place. I also think humanity of not thinking that you know who we are and allowing us to say who we are. And not know, just because you've been around us know that we've been around you just as long and studying you. We have. I was thinking about it last night we've been force fed white culture. If you asked me my favorite shows as a child, they would be young and a restless not slanting Falcon Crests. As the world turns, and then as a teenager, the Cosby show. So, I think, I think we have to be allowed to do our work and be respected for our work, no matter what space we're in. Thank you. Next, I would say it's everything, everything Valerie and Sharon said in terms of free reign. It's the freedom to interpret and adapt and reimagine our work in our words and our bodies. It's where institutional leaders step aside and share the power. So when we look at leadership and middle management is time to paint the White House black, meaning we need more black producers, board members, artistic directors at the forefront at the helm of what is going on. So, those are some of the things and how I would echo what's already been said. Can I just, for one second, Toyota said something that really sparked something in me, which is I'm not so interested in white folks stepping aside because that would leave us to take over institutions that are not prepared for us. I don't want you to go in and lead Seattle Rep until they've done their board work and done their funder work to make it an environment where you can actually get things done. For us to move into environments that are inherently racist or oppressive doesn't, it's not the best use of our, our energies. So I want us to have all those resources, but I'm not sure until they have done that work that we should be really hungry to lead those organizations. I totally agree with you but I just feel like that caveat is very important. Thank you. I agree with what everything that's been said and I'd also like to throw in the mix, you know, really making the spaces safe for artists who come into the room. You know, there's been an outcry from Seattle black theater artists as to what we need in order to come back into these spaces. People are hungry to create their own spaces and I think money is a big barrier. But I've talked about this with other people, you know, the way we think about donors and who is a donor and who has the right to give money also needs to be reimagined. I think people want their black people in this town who want to support theater, but they don't see themselves. They see themselves on the stage maybe once or twice in a season, but then they don't see other people who look like them in the audiences they don't see other people who look like them, you know approaching them to ask them if they're willing to become a part of the organization. Leadership and how the expectations of who a leader is, you can't expect a black or brown person sometimes to come to the table with the same things that you have because they haven't been afforded the same privileges to be able to sometimes get that education that they may need in order to step in that position. So, being open with your resources and really doing the work. I think you have to do the work we can't come back from this at the end and people say oh that was a nice little break. Because we've been working since before this started and I don't like the idea that okay now something's happening for black people we have been toiling through racial discrimination and being discriminated in the theater since day one. So now you just joined the party. So what are you going to do. Mm hmm. I want to string together things that the three of you have said. I think it's a person who is in this board room that we're trying to give access to, because I think I appreciate Valerie's point about not wanting to take over an inherently racist institution, but I do think there. There's kind of a seesaw there because these changes that we're talking about aren't going to happen even with the well intentioned. And now we're with you. That Deedra was talking about, unless there's somebody else in the room to do it and when there are too few of us there, the changes don't happen quickly enough. I agree that it doesn't necessarily work for everybody who's in there right now to get up and walk out the door and say here you take it over now. But I do think we have to figure out how to open and accept and make acceptable to make it so that people who aren't there are willing and able and comfortable in participating so that the changes can be made in the right direction. And it's not just a bunch of well intentioned, but really, you know, so often misguided and people who are still part of the problem, making the decisions on the solution. I agree 100%. And I guess in my brain, I want to have our own stuff to invest in ourselves. And I want to be able to speak truth in every room that I go into. And so I do that. I'm not on the reps board, but I can tell you that people at the rep know what I think about how they should be engaging in our community. And so I think that it is very it's entirely possible to support them and hold them accountable for cleaning up their own house. And I don't I'm not saying by any means just leave them to their own devices. I'm just saying that they have their own work to do and encouraging them to think about stepping aside so we can do their work. That doesn't make sense to me. And I'm glad that there are people like you who are in the rooms who are saying, you know, what why why is that decision being made again. And I think that there are people outside who need to be outside and stay outside in order to put the right pressure where it needs to be. But I don't disagree with you at all about engaging them, but we have to engage them on our terms. I just want to throw something in here, maybe a little. What's the word looking for metaphysical on some level. But this idea that the default seems to be when we talk when we say people we actually mean white people. And I would like to not have that be that if we mean white people we say white people, because we say black people would mean black people. And I think that's part of the, the, the, I mean it says something about how. I mean, I hate this phrase in some ways that we've been colonized but it's a reality, and that that white people are the default. And so in the, because we then we have to go back and explain what we mean, you know, that, you know, so if we just should say white people I think and I'm not directing this at you guys but I mean I do it for myself to always have to go I mean white people. And so, I think that that institutions that are are white led and run and that benefit and white communities. I think that the issue that Valerie brought up was, do we really want to go into to that institution, or those kinds of it do we need to are there different kinds of institutions or institutions that reflect black interest and sensibilities are those the kind of institutions that we really want to support or that we want to see be supported right now by by white organizations that you know funders and donors and stuff like that we want them to support, not to reinforce something that is already there. But this, this other thing that black people are doing and people of color are doing. I mean, we're doing something different. And so the thing is that what we're doing different always stays on the outside. And in these white institutions they only want a little bit of that. Come in a little bit and you do a little bit then please go away. You know, and so I think one of the things that's always interesting to me about how people respond white people respond to respond to my work here in Seattle they go oh you know it made me uncomfortable. And I, you know, and I think that black people are you don't expect that the theater is not going to make them feel uncomfortable. It's part of our experience and like that things make us feel uncomfortable. And when we are made to feel or when we feel on our, we feel uncomfortable about something. We asked the question, why am I feeling uncomfortable about this, rather than, oh I want to push it away I don't want to do anything. Please go with you know, like that. So I hear, I hear several, several ideas I hear in this new newly imagined landscape. We need an equitable distribution of resources. We need freedom and commitment to truth telling we need at the end of the day and audience willing to go along with us. I wonder if each of you, here's a little challenge in a couple of in a couple of words. What are, what are, what are our pillars if that's the foundation that we're building on right then what do we what do we want to see grow from that. I'm interested in encouraging people to achieve the fullness of their human potential. Which means being brave and compassionate and curious and risk taking and truth telling like to make the conditions where as many people as encounter our work feel they exit feeling a step closer to those things. That's that's for me that's communion, which is the whole reason to have theater, right communion is creating the conditions for everyone to be their best selves. And that's why I make theater because I want to do that I want to contribute to that. So that's that's what I that for me would be in service of that idea. I just wonder from what Valerie just said which is really the that this are we the exception and not the rule, meaning that I wonder if the majority of the people out there in the world really want the kind of Americans in particular want this experience that Valerie is talking about. Do they really want that. I see we want that. You know, but I'm not convinced because I think that that they're to add on to a kind of a wish. A hope is that people as to kind of build on what Valerie was just saying that people will think for themselves. And the way to think for yourself is really the the the is a kind of education and being, you know, kind of acknowledging that you need to do certain kinds of work and then you go about doing educating yourself in order to be able to do in order to be able to be to have your own thoughts and not thoughts that have been inherited from someplace else or gotten from someplace else. I think that really excellent thought are with the exception. I guess part of me feels like that's the place where we lead. I think our job is partly to go out and look and explore and catalog and be a pioneer and collect observations and then leave them into something artistic and then deliver it back out and maybe people see themselves or they see a possibility in the work we make. But I think our being exceptional, actually is is part of what it is to be an artist. And Tizaki and Tizaki Shange once said to me to be an artist is to be outside the people but closer to God. I think about that all the time when I'm making something and I think is anyone going to come, or are they going to care. And then I'm like, oh, I'm just called to make this thing so I make it. But I think that it's a really valid question, are we the exception. I hope we are, which is why I think the art will be good if we're the exception and looking for this higher thing. And Donald and piggybacking off what you said, I think people haven't had the opportunity to know if they want what we have, because they haven't had much of it. And therefore, duchess, therefore, they, they don't know they know if you're in a regional theater they may see a show once or twice if they come to CD form, you see black bodies, every show that we do. And I think because of that, I think the thing that people hide the thing that white people hide behind is that, or white leaders hide behind is that I don't think our audiences will accept this work. Because that's not what they're into, but how do you know when you haven't had a full season of just black bodies, or Latinx bodies or BIPOC period body so how do you know that's not what they want. When I started performing in Seattle. My first show was at Seattle you for this for the law school, I walked out an entire room was white with a few black people sprinkled in. So how do they know I think that we assume, and that as as leaders assume that because they've been it's been working for them or so called working for them, the way in which they've been doing it, that that's the way it has to keep going. But I dare a regional theater to have an all black season and see what happens see who shows up. And then they'll know whether or not their audience wants us on the stage. I agree Sharon, and I think that another point in that regard is that when they're making their assumptions about what our art is. They assume that all it is is a chance to bang on white people. Like white people are the center of everything we do but that's not that's not in fact the case, but that's one of the assumptions. I don't want to go to the theater and watch a bunch of black people talk bad about white folks so I'm not going to go. All the black art is angry, because the truth hurts but so. Or they can't understand, like what, what they did, what did they just say was that English, I don't know what they talking about I can't figure it out, but you can figure it out when you listen to a hip hop song. And it feels like, you know, white theaters are more interested in showcasing and celebrating our pain, putting our pain on display for adulation, instead of our moments of joy and just showing black people in their awareness, which is what we are as human. So, you know, the shows that do get picked at most of these primarily white institutions. A lot of times are very traumatic for black audiences. So as a black person you go to the show and you sit in there, and you're surrounded by white people and you're witnessing a lot of times trauma on stage and haven't been warned. There's no warning in the program for you. And so then you're experiencing another type of trauma and having to be surrounded by this audience who can't relate to what you're experiencing on stage. So I think part of the reimagining is expanding what storytelling is and how black storytelling does not fit in this monolithic mode of it's just me I'm going to talk to an audience, you know this theater dynamic that we've been taught is that's the way that's the only way to have a performance is if you're sitting in an audience and then someone's on stage in front of you and they're performing that's what the quote unquote theater is. Thank you. That actually leads into a question that I really, really want to ask this room. You know, I know where we are constantly right we are in the midst of revolution we're thinking all the time about what we need to burn down in order to build up. So what I want to know from all of you right now is like, what, what are, what are the stories that we want to tell what does our, our, our art look like, when it's not created for through or with the lens of whiteness. Read vows play. Thank you for the plug, DJ. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I mean, what I, you know, the thing is that I, I think it's like, I'm really interested in, in general, I think what we want to see black people want to see is stuff that somehow that addresses our experiences are our dreams are hopes are our history. And however it does that it doesn't mean that it needs to be told in the, the, you know, the kitchen sink promise of the late 50s and 60s that it can be done, it can manifest itself in the many ways that the black imagination has at its disposal. I mean, earlier I was thinking so much about the production that Valerie did trouble in mind and how the history behind that play. And, and this idea of that if you at how Alice Childress was really bold and saying, this is the play that is my play this is the play that I want to present to the public, not some other version of it. You know, some other reality that makes white people feel okay about themselves, you know, that's not what I want to do. And so it just kind of made me think also about what is it ruined. I mean, I, I like to remember the ending of the play just did not sit with me. And somebody said to me, that's not the ending that she originally wrote. I wrote another ending and the white theater institutions that were at commission it and we're doing they said, no, you have to do another ending. And so I want a theater. The stories that I want to see our stories told by black people with in their truth not accommodating white institutions or white audiences. So he said, it doesn't mean that it has to be about trauma or about angry and mad all the time about stuff. But there is there's just more variety to us than that. But I do want it not to be. And so he said, the people black people that are telling our stories, if you're going to support them support them. Don't tell them what to how to write or what it is that they're doing, or how to direct what they're what they're directing. There personally for me there are two kinds of plays that I gravitate towards. I gravitate towards plays that are about people finding their voices. I gravitate towards plays where black people heal their relationships with each other. So we can go through trauma, we can go through being abandoned, we can go through being abused, we can go through all that stuff. But if we are figuring out how we love each other through it, how we get to the other side of it, then that for me is a story worth telling. But every every artist has their own sort of litmus test like what is it that lights you up. You know, for some people it's making musicals. And I think musicals are wonderful. And I love them. I do have a problem when all white people only want to hear us sing. Right. The opposite of trauma porn is the happy Negro who's always singing. There's got to be something between those two poles that can merit spending money on to go see to make number one to make and number two to go see. But we get caught in those two camps altogether too much. So I want to ask a question after listening to all of you. Do you think that what Donald was describing or what others have been describing about what they want? Can that exist in what we're now calling the white theater or does that traditional thing have to die entirely and burn to the ground to be replaced with something else before you get to the point that Donald was describing where people put on the work they want to put on without being told how to do it. That's a great question. Thank you, Julie. I think Julie we have to change the metrics for success. If we decide that only X amount of money or X percentage of butts and seats is the measure of success of an artistic work, then we're going to constantly be chasing trying to find the right model to get people to show up and spend their money. There might be other metrics that can be applied in addition to funding to selling tickets, you know, there's always going to be a show in a season that does not make money. Why can't the theater think about those plays as investments in particular audiences? Right. Why does the one black play have to make X amount of dollars? Why can't it just be an opportunity for these artists to make work that could be a gift to the community if they come to see it? So I feel like we need to have a real discussion about the measures of success and agree on a community standard about what that is inside these organizations. But yeah, I feel like I feel like that's a really important point. I don't know that it all has to burn down and go away, but it definitely can't continue to stand the way it's standing and tell the lie that it is interested in communities of color. They can do what they're doing, but they just have to stop saying what they're saying. Because the integrity of having your words and your deeds match is a place where I find so many of the predominantly white institutions. That's where they fall down. They have a really great sense of what they want their mission to be, and then they don't actually do anything in service of that mission. So, I would like to see those things align. You know, I'm in this time of COVID. I've always I keep saying that I probably say three times four times a day that COVID is the best and the worst of us, right? But I've learned so much during this time frame in this period. And the two words that keep coming up for me is collective power. And when I look at Freedom, Georgia, where I think it was 19 families came together and bought 94 acres of land to create their own town, their own foundation. I say that we do we can do the same thing in all of our, you know, facets of our lives and the beauty, you know, about theater is theater doesn't have to necessarily be in the confines of four walls theater can be done anywhere. In black people, we are resilient people of color, we are resilient, we are mad, we are imaginative, we are creative. We don't we create our own we can create our own collective power. I'll never forget when I worked at Harlem School of the Arts, and the classical theater of Harlem that was founded by a white man named Alfred Pricer, who was the founder as well as the artistic director. He was directing Macbeth and all black cast. And I remember watching the artists come on stage to audition. And afterwards, Alfred said, so much talent in the room. So many brilliant both, you know, artists in the room. And I hate that I cannot hire you all. He says, but what I can tell you is you don't have to wait for me to hire you and to put you on a stage. Create your own, whether it's theater in the park. And now what what we can do with technology and, you know, in social media. I am telling my the artists that I know, especially the young ones to think beyond what people have put in place for you and do it yourself. We have to do for you for us by us. Right. And so, you know, I have a really close friend who is finally she says she has arrived because she is working for a major animation company. And I told her I said with the talent that you have. I want you to create your own team. I want you to create your own company and use this only as a platform in order to do and put those, your creative, you know, talents and gift and those who you've known who come through the ranks with you in those places think bigger than what they have set out for us to for the how they have set out for us to think. So in my mind every day when I wake up. I'm thinking collective power. How can I call Valerie. How can I call Sharon and say this is how we put our money together this is how we put our talents and our gifts together and create our own because we can no longer wait for them to do it for us. I 100% agree with creating our own and doing our own work. The reality is, is that we are in a system that has been created on top of systems right so the system of what theater is right if black people do theater and really talk about their own stories they label it the Chitlin circuit. I think that same play goes to a regional theater is on its way to Broadway and it can, and they can do that work. And so I think it's also a part of how do we look at the systems, it's a it's a big problem, right, we have to start somewhere. I think one of the, one of the things that we do get in trouble with is that we do have to know everything as black artist, we have to know how to produce, we have to know how to act, we have to know how to market, we have to know how to fund, we have to know all those pieces to make it possible, whereas you have these, these regional theaters that they call up that have people to do all that work. And so I think, I think we can but we also have to change the mindset of people that if you see a play at a regional theater, and you see vows play or you see a show at Langston Hughes, that show is just as good, if not better than what you just saw at that regional theater. Why, because when they came to Langston Hughes, Donald and Val and all the artists was able to bring their entire cells. We have to have funders that believe that we can bring our entire cells. And, and that's not just white funders that's not just black funders. That's that collective partnership that we bring together to say, look, I believe in your work for you to be just who you are. I'm going to help you. Why can't a show that comes from the stage of wherever Val and Donald or CD form or Deidre or Toya is doing work. Why can't that work go from where it was in the community to Broadway by missing some steps. We let children skip grades in school. Why aren't we skipping grades in theater when we know that the work is good. Some of the most powerful work that I've seen has been in readings a black place that have never hit the stage because oh we don't have enough money to produce that show. Like Val said, we don't have enough butts and seats enough people aren't going to pay to come and see that show. So there's a, there's a, there's a thing of talking about what we can do now and it is a thing of, we need people across the world to break down the systems to allow us to move forward. And I think just adding sort of adding a note to all this. I absolutely agree with the idea that we need to make our own. And I want us to get paid. I can make a play anywhere. I have made plays anywhere, but I have not always been paid to make a play. And I love black people, but I also love to be able to stay in my house and to eat dinner and to have clothes on my butt. Right. So we need to figure out how to be able to have to control the means of production and also be able to make bank. I mean, Tyler Perry, whether you love his work or hate his work, the brother writes everything. So he doesn't have to ever pay a royalty to any damn body. He writes all of it. He markets all of it. Even when he was going out of his car, he got to keep most of every dollar. And he wasn't all that different from white producers in terms of how low the cap was on what the actual artist got. Right. So we have to decide how we're going to be sustained by making our art and be encouraged financially to make our art. Artists across the board, not just theater, but across the board are not recognized for the ways in which we serve the common good. We are, we're like electricity or running water. We're fundamental to the way that humanity works and there's no system financial system right now that guarantees us a living wage. And so that becomes part of the struggle. I can absolutely start on my on my own, but then I have to figure out how my lights stay on. And when this moratorium on mortgages and rents goes away, how I'm going to stay housed, you know, to be an artist and to be that strapped financially strapped. It begins to put put straps on your imagination and on your belief about what's possible. So I that's why my first thing was equitable funding so that we can be paid to make our things but but be self determining in how that money gets spent is really important to me. Now how are we doing for time. We can take all the time we want in the world. One two. Let's keep talking for a bit longer and and then we'll transition over. I have two, two more kind of big questions that I want to pose to the room. One is following this thread of everything that's not working and also knowing right now immediately we can't just throw everything out the window. What can we like what can we burn down. What can we let go what can we get rid of right now to boost us up to build this new world that we're imagining. I think it's to get rid of the notion of safe space. There's no such thing as safe space in a time of change. It's the sort of antithetical. I want to be safe and I want to burn it all down. How does that work exactly. Right. There's no such thing as safe space we have to be brave. When when they were crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge, they weren't thinking I'm going to be safe all the way across. They were thinking when I get there it's going to be different because I made the crossing. And I want more and more of us to recognize that we just have to be brave and black people and white people and everyone else getting comfortable with the idea that discomfort is a real thing and it's part of the process. We're not supposed to be safe and comfortable as we go through times like this. I definitely don't think that we're going to be safe in terms of not having our feelings hurt. But we shouldn't we shouldn't be killed because we disagree about how the arc is made right that that's that that's a place where safety makes sense. But in terms of like I don't want to I don't want to have confrontation or conflict. I don't want to be called out I don't want this I don't want that anything less than actual death we've got to be ready to roll with it. I would like to throw out there that, you know, kind of getting rid of the idea that. What we're talking about is imaginary. And that it can't happen. Just changing our language around, you know, we may be here now. And just by simply putting these ideas out into the universe, we're taking that step to make those things happen. And in something that I wanted to say, I can't remember I think Sharon Sharon was saying we're talking about, you know, we talked about money and there was a big push during cove it for people to buy black. So I would encourage people to invest in in black theater makers and there are organizations here in this town that could use your money. So you know, I'm sure somebody could put a list together if you're watching this and you want to know October is, you know, giving month, you know why not also buy the plant from the black nursery you can also donate some money to a black theater organization. One of the things that I thought of about what to change I think the gatekeepers, the idea of a gatekeeper or even the gatekeepers themselves who is it that standing there at the gate deciding who's who comes in. You know it's like, what is it studio 54 in front of the red. You know, you can come in now you can't like that. And I used to say and people would presenters for example would get really angry with me for saying this, I said the whole system is is is like a plantation system. You know, and for black artists that kind of really kind of is is it kind of resonates in a very particular way, because that's how I felt. Often that's how I felt, you know, and so the, I would like to see perhaps in the world. In terms of the theater world the dance world about that the. I just don't want to have those people standing in front of white people standing in front of the entrances to these places armor. I mean it's like the that how our police have become militarized that they're wearing all of this combat armor and stuff. Rather than and so clearly they are ready to kill people, not to protect people. And so I think it's the same thing with the gatekeepers the gatekeepers are need to be thinking about not keeping people out but how many people can we let in. What do we need to do how we have what kind of thinking a structure needs to be there that allows for more people to participate. Not to. I mean in some of it obviously has to do with the lead is the fewer the better. I would also like to see and I think maybe this is changing this notion of as a black person being the only one, or there's just a few, you know, that it should not when I if I go into a white institution to make a work or something. I should not be surprised that there are a lot of black people there. At the moment, usually if there's more than two I'm kind of surprised. I get that I'm surprised to or it becomes a big family reunion. And we sitting at the Gregory awards all together, making noise and having a good time. But also I think it's about thinking that this work is so hard. I am so tired of that. I am so tired of them saying, this work is hard how do we make these changes make the damn changes. What do we need to do. We've been telling you for years what the changes need to be. It's not like we just started this conversation. Last year we started this conversation, years and years and people have been telling you need to change what you're doing, but you say, oh it's so hard how do we make these decisions. How do we change our programming. How do we look at our board and say, oh how do we just not have it be our white friends. How do we, how do we make sure that our audience isn't just white people in the audience how do we do all this work is is as simple as doing it. You said if you want to do something you have to do something. Amen to that. Stop trying to play us and that's that's that's that's that's my word. That's how we say it in our in my community. Stop trying to play us like, like we don't know we do know that it's that easy to do why because we have all these black beautiful people are here doing it. I think part of that comes from the fact that when you say all those things are easy to change they are if you're already changed in here, and that a lot of what's really happening is you you you you all should do something but if it gets to the point what's hard is first I have to change myself. Then it would be easy for me to do these changes and when it gets right down to it. You all, you should divide up the pie differently that's for sure, but just leave my piece right where it is. It's a, it's a fear of relinquishing power. Absolutely, which is that there is not enough to go around. Yeah, and acknowledging that you individually have something that needs to be changed. Don't invite me to a healing circle if you're not willing to do the work at home yourself. One thing that Valerie just said about the about this notion that there isn't enough. There's more than enough. And so it is this notion of the, you know, years ago, I would get really angry when somebody got a grant and I didn't get one or they got a commission like I just be so mad. And then I start to have to do these affirmations in the morning that was like the universe is plentiful there's enough for everybody. You know, and so it made a huge difference just thinking that the unit there was enough. So I think this, I think as Julia was saying about the, about these people they want their part of the pie, but it's not the pie is bigger than you just taking a little sliver. And the pie is actually bigger than you think it is. I think, I mean, I mean, and also we get put in this position to say we I mean artists do in this case artists get put in this position that we are in competition with each other and in some ways we are in competition with each other. But we believe that it is more dire than it is because we believe that resources are limited. And I think one of the things that's happened recently like with the I think was the Doris Duke Foundation and the Ford Foundation. They entered in this thing where they actually are borrowing money so they can give bigger grants to people to artists. And I think that's really an incredible thing to do. And that this idea that one of the things like going forward into the future. We have to think about that the universe is plentiful. But you don't manage your resources, you know, but it is there's a lot out there. And I think you're right Donald but also you have you started thinking that way because they made us think that way. Right because the foundations would only fund in this community, one black organization, they're fun act into mine. Seattle rep fifth Avenue, but then you have spectrum. And you fund all those other entities that aren't black, and then just have one of us there so that's what made us think that the resources wasn't plentiful. Like you had to be one or the other that's what put us against one another was because they will only give to one of the organizations. Oh, why don't you all just merge together as a black or as black organizations, and we could just fund one pot. So if y'all just all merged together, and we could just fund one regional theater. Thanks y'all. I want to take us into my last formal question. Going back to what did you said a little bit ago about framing as if this world that we're creating is imaginary. Yes, not that's not the thing so much right, but in order in order to build something right first, we first have to give ourselves permission to imagine a world that exists outside of the really very white institutions that we exist in currently. Right, so we want to imagine and then we want to manifest, and then we will build. So the question that I have for everyone in this room is in in this new world with the change that will inevitably come right now in the work that you're doing in the community in your art with yourself, your circles as a human. But what are you manifesting, and what are you bringing. I'm trying to manifest discernment. So that I can recognize all the lies. The lies about lack the lies about my own powerlessness. The lies about how it will never get better the lies about how every bad thing is everywhere. You know there are four P's that add up to pessimism. The personal that it's about me. Everything that's going wrong is about me that it's pervasive that everything that's going wrong is everywhere. And that it is permanent. Everything that is going wrong will never change. So personal pervasive and permanent leads to pessimistic. So I'm working really hard to recognize the lies that I tell myself, or that other people tell me that keep me from having faith and being hopeful for change. So I'm working on that that one I ask all the time, is that true is that thing that I'm thinking is it really true, or is it a lie that I'm telling myself. And if I can discern the difference between a fear, a lie and a truth. Then I have the power I believe to change pretty much any circumstance that I encounter. So we can go home now after what Valerie just done. What are you manifesting. What I have to say is not as interesting as what Val just said. But I think just in answering the question what how what am I manifesting and I think, and this is kind of new for me. And I think I'm excited about that in general is that I think I'm manifesting generosity. I don't think I'm naturally a generous person. I have to have to work at being generous, but I'm starting to feel now that the generosity is actually is effort is not effortful is effort less I don't have to work at it so hard to be generous. And the primary way, I think one of the ways it manifests is so I'm really generous to the people that I work with. And, and I have been in the past often have been demanding to the point where that that I like generosity. And so I'm happy that I'm able that what I'm manifesting is is generosity. And I, and there's something there's a gift that come comes with that that the people that I work with. They are really generous towards me on a lot of levels on an emotional level is just and so I feel this is again I feel it's like love. I feel something like love. And so it makes it really easy. And to walk into even a, you know, virtually walk into a room with people to begin working on something that may and is often with my work, it causes discomfort. Thank you. I think one of the things I'm manifesting is acceptance of myself and my evolution as a person a woman a black woman and as an artist. And, and knowing that I am more than I allow myself to be. I think I am just manifesting accepting that it is okay for me to grow and to feel differently than I did last year and you know, accepting my role as a leader and a voice that's worthy to be heard. And I think by doing that I'm planting roots for other people to just see me authentically is who I am. Thank you, did you pick you back off of what did you say, um, I am constantly always accepting that I can walk in my life. I'll never forget. I was in Brooklyn. And this was probably 20 years ago I was walking down the street I was coming from an art festival and an older man and elder walked by me and he turned around. He said there's such a bright light around you. And then he just turned back and started walking the other way and I just stood there. Then he turned back around and said, but it doesn't matter if you don't believe in us here. And so I am learning to show myself grace we walk in this Eurocentric way of being where things have to be done a certain way. There's only one path, you know way of doing it and if you don't do it like that, then you don't do it right. And us as Black folks, us as beautiful people of color, our light and our spirits are so much bigger than that. And so I am telling myself to trust what God has put in me and trust what God has created and allow myself just to be who I am to be. And believe that that's enough and know that there's light that I I permeate that I shine light. And like Donald said, you know, you know, sometimes somebody else is doing so well and you're doing other things and you get upset about it. And it's because they're walking their path. And you are not seeing yours. So I am always reminding myself to breathe and understand that there, it's okay to say that there's a light around me and it shines bright and I'm brilliant I'm bold because that's what I tell my children to be. But how am I so how do I expect them to believe it. If I don't see it and manifested first in myself. So, you know, a lot of times we do that we carry the burdens of everybody else on our backs and we want to see everybody else. We want to carry everybody else, but first and foremost take care of ourselves so that we are strong for the people that we love in the community that we support. So it's, it's light for me. Only in the light. Thank you. I'm going to, with that lovely, lovely affirmation and manifestation I'm going to transition us to for the last 15 minutes to the community conversation portion of this panel. This is a little bit different y'all attendees than what you've probably been to before, but I'm going to be inviting everyone who's part of the zoom webinar to be a part of the conversation and to chat together about these questions of what is the future of theater and how do we want to reimagine theater. And so in a moment you're going to be invited to be a panelist, and when you join the meeting your cameras will be off and you'll be muted so if you just want to listen and continue to listen you can. But if you would like to join the conversation add your ideas you'll be invited to do that. And also invite the panelists, if they'd like to turn off their camera become more of listeners and program community voice they're welcome to do that. Also to take a break since they've given us so much of their time and thought for us to talk about and Alex and I are going to be in conversation with y'all to bring in some other voice as well so how do you if you can move everyone into this room so that we can be in conversation with everyone who's here. Please do that. And as we're transitioning I will keep talking because I'm good at doing that. I would love to to hear from other BIPOC folks who are on this call, who may have had their, their minds racing with their own thoughts and ideas about the central question of, if we could wave a magic wand and change the theater world, what would we create. And I would also, you know, anything that folks would like to share but I'd love to center the other people BIPOC folks who are on this call if y'all would like to share what you've been thinking throughout this panel and your ideas. So feel free to unmute yourself. If you'd like to be on camera you can be on camera. Yes. Patty, I just wanted to let you know it looks like the ASL interpreters camera got turned off. No, they're still there. They're under interpreter Vanya. So if you want, if you need to pin that you can do that but they should be showing up on the live stream but thank you for that concern. My apologies. Okay. Am I unmuted. My name is Lynette. And I've been thinking, I have never understood why we have so many roles between us. I have a disability. I have always faced a lot of ridicule and misunderstanding people. So black community, I understand, but I don't look at them as a black community. I look at everybody as a person. And I think it's because I've had, I've experienced myself, some prejudices. And I think the best way for us to get to break down or failure is to be honest with yourself and be free to ask other people, you know, something, you don't understand something, ask them. And I think that is so freeing. Because, you know, that's how we get to know each other. And I don't like to preach him. I don't like to think about what are they going to think if I ask them. You know, what are they going to think of me being a disabled person. I have to do, I have to do this in a certain way to please them. I don't like that. And I don't think blacks like that either. I don't like, I just, to me, I don't, I have never understood the difference between black people, white people, Mexicans, maybe they're, they're languages and that, but if we want freedom, we have to act free. We have to be growing to just take that challenge of being ourselves and not trying to be a preacher, you know, trying any key chances that just be who we are and ask others as questions as others. And as far as the theater goes, or any kind of film. I have loved most of films that the black are often like the color of the people. Other films that I've seen that is just, you know, there's, I can tell that there's nothing, I mean, there's nothing held back. It's just, it's a thing. And that's, that's what I want to say. We need to be. Thank you. Yeah, shit. Thank you for sharing your story and the works and the tools that have worked for you as well. I think that empathy and the truth tell what I was hearing is also that truth speaks to you. And that's something that has sounds like it's been resonated throughout this conversation. Yeah, I just, I don't like this conversation just listening to, and I just hear so much. Why can't we be ourselves? Why don't we have to put our masks on, you know, do the things the right way, or that, you know, Thank you. Are there other folks who want to, who have thoughts or ideas that have sparked from this conversation, or who have questions that you want to throw out into the world that may or may not be answered. I'd love to say, Hi, you guys, this is Shawnee speaking. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and I don't have a whole lot to add I just, I want to say thank you to to all of my friends I looked up and all of my friends are on this panel, and you guys spoke so much truth. Bravely, and I think you you captured and echoed so much of what we have spoke about over the years, and what we have wished for over the years and you guys step forward and shared your heart and shared of course your expertise and your wisdom. And I just thank you so much, because I do consider you guys representatives of myself personally. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, honey. I have a question to throw out to the audience. And that is part particularly, particularly for black indigenous people of color, or this new term that I picked up from Val just an hour ago, global majority folks in the audience. What, what makes you, what makes you excited, what do you, what do you want to come to the theater to see. I think I, I, this is Shawnee's again. I want, I want to see the truth and I Val talked about the truth Sharon talked about the truth, and the truth and storytelling and that's from all walks of life I'm so interested in the human experience and I'm able to see an collective mix of all stories I think would benefit all of us and right now we see one type of story, and then we have some some sprinkling and some taste testing of other stories. And it, I think my internet is messing up you guys. I'm sorry about that my internet is weird. I think, I think if we capture, if we capture. If we are able to capture that diversity and inclusion there's that all of these different stories I mean there's space for it yet. There are so many theaters on so many different levels small black boxes mid mid range large equity houses community there's so many opportunities for so many different stories to be told. I think, I think that that is how we can keep theater alive that's how we can get people that don't normally go to the theater go coming into the into the doors because they see themselves represented on stage. And I want to see programming that tells the truth in all walks of life, whatever it is. Thanks, Chinese. Yeah. Hi, this is not all. I want to thank all of you, all you beautiful people that amazing people that I've worked with and this has been so great and thank you to all including Chinese. It's just so much of what was said, you know, I loved what she said about why can't we have, you know, season with no white plays, or even with the season with white plays but you know what we see on the stage. I mean, I grew up in Japan and check off cherry orchard was all Japanese cast because that's where I was living right and I didn't think anything of it, because that's how it was. And how. Why is it that it has to be, like you said, you know, different and the trauma that Dita talked about of putting these stories on stage and you are performing in front of mostly majority white audiences in most cases. And, you know, yes, the intention to create safe space for BIPOC artists in the rehearsal space in the theater space, and then you go on stage and it's not safe anymore, you know, and I think that's the expansion of this conversation into our industry, you know, who's coming to see it. We are the theaters and institutions creating safe space for all of us to be present, and not feel like we're exposing ourselves and it's, you know, no longer a safe space to tell these stories and it's so much of changing narrative and what we learned what theater is supposed to do from whose point of view, whose standard is this, whose perfect is this, whose box office hit, you know, is it mostly probably the people who are coming to see the shows in bigger theaters, you know, but that is not the standard anymore and who said it was the perfect thing. I think we just have to start changing the narrative, changing the stories and, you know, changing how we see things and I just really appreciate all of you for doing this. So, thank you. Thank you, Naha. Yeah. Any last thoughts from from the audience, especially the BIPOC folks in the audience, if of what you want to see. This is about challenging theaters about sharing thoughts with theaters so that we can manifest our future. So I want to make sure to hold space in case there are, is anyone else from the community who wants to share. Okay, seeing none. I would like to thank these panelists so, so, so much. I cannot thank you enough for being here and taking the time and sharing so much of yourself and your lived experience. It's just been a joy to be here with you all and to hear you and to be challenged by you and I look forward to honestly relistening to this panel and bringing this back to Seattle Rep as well as I hope other theaters who are watching across the nation and the globe will be able to manifest what each of you are manifesting and challenging us to work towards. Soon, not as something imaginary, but something that's coming now. I want to let you know that we do have three other panels coming up as part of this series in October, it'll be reimagined civic theater in November reimagined Indigenous theater, and then in December reimagined accessible theater. We also have our first of our play reading club coming up called the Kilroy's Club, and the first play that we will be reading is called Before Evening Comes by Filana Moretunois. So I think everyone who's listening and hearing today would be interested in all those conversations to dig even deeper. So please join us for that you can find out more on the Seattle Rep website. And thank you for coming. That's all I've got. Thank you interpreters as well for being here. Excellent job. Thank you, Alex for moderating. Excellent. Thank you, Alex and Nebra. Thank you. Thank you. I just want to, before before we all leave here, just to reiterate what Sharon said in the chat, please do continue this conversation in your homes and your socials in your communities. This is just one beginning of imagining our future this is by no means the end of the conversation.