 Hey, hello everybody and welcome back to the Think Tech Hawaii studio. We've got a fun episode of security matters today and I am sorry I have been offline most of October I was traveling. So I'm happy to be back here today. And Jenny vickers is with me out she is the CEO of zeperd law I'm going to let her do her intro as I normally do. But stick around we're going to have some fun talking about and I've got she's an international guest coming to us from New Zealand. So Jenny I appreciate you getting up early in the morning. It's a little bit earlier than it is here but it's already tomorrow there I believe as well. So anyway, thank you go ahead and let our audience know if they haven't read about you and I have set for your, your number one global influencer award, and your nomination to the best of the best award that we'll talk about. Give them give them a sense of the background you know we don't give it all away on social media today but as much as you care to share and let us know have at it. And thank you for joining me today. So hi Andrew, and good morning from New Zealand on Wednesday, and I'm delighted to be here and have this opportunity to have a bit of a chat so. So kicking off with me I, I love being a New Zealander. I've lived here for 25 years I emigrated here from the UK, and I still remember the emotional feeling I had going through citizenship ceremony and that sense of belonging in a place that also made reminded me of why don't we do citizenship ceremonies for people who are born somewhere so that they get that same sense of anchoring to the place but when I stepped off the plane 25 years ago. I knew that this was the place I was supposed to be. So, so it's a cool place I, I have a very unconventional career or I'm not sure that these days there's any such thing as a conventional one. It's the serial development and so often I describe to people that what I do is anything I find really interesting. And I'll go off in a different direction and over the last couple of weeks I was thinking about a number of the businesses I've developed, which are parked which had I done something with them 10 years ago, then I probably be a billionaire now but actually it was more important to move on to the next thing that got me excited and interested so. So, these days I run zepid law so it's my own law firm, and I'll tell you a little bit about the zepid in a second at the moment, I'm on one contract so my law firm's got one client, and I'm working with fortunate which I'm loving great company very strong ethical underpin fabulous products and so for my years as a lawyer, working in an ethical environment is so important. So it's a happy comfortable space to be. And so the zepid I should explain to people about the zepid so I was looking for. I was teaching mind mapping I stopped being a lawyer and said I've had enough of being a lawyer and discovered mind mapping and wanted to help lawyers be a bit more visionary with their thinking because often I was finding myself as the only person in a room who could see this while everybody else was pinned down on the page so I discovered mind mapping. This is a fabulous thing to do that I needed a brand name and the zepid appeared from a brainstorming session with a fabulous friend from Aussie and the two of us bounced ideas around and so we ended up with this hybrid of a zebra and a leopard. It was very interesting that it was the perfect for me or whole brain thinking you got to be a bit left you got to be a bit right. And then I started researching into zebras and leopards and love the fact that success comes from being able to be a team player to be an individual to be able to think differently to be able to work together people to collaborate and to influence that thinking So the zepid as my brand is the perfect encapsulation of me and the color I use orange which is a very strong powerful happy positive color so over the last. This is what led to the set global nomination over the last five to eight years I've been involved very closely with defense in both Australia and New Zealand very much working in the contract commercial management space and looking at how do we get government customers and industry working better together because there's far too many examples in the world of all that focus and again this is where we're back to the lawyers you have all this focus on getting a contract in place but unless you manage your behaviors and the relationship before the contract signed then the chance of making that relationship carry on afterwards is going to be tainted if you haven't got it right and and finally those examples take me back to practicing law in the UK and doing M&A transactions which I used to do and often I'd be acting for the selling business so maybe a baby boomer who was ready to sell their business to one of the big guys and I'd look after them and we'd do the contract but often you could see that anxiety and angst between the lawyers that by the time the contract was signed somebody wasn't even taught their parties but even talking to each other. Wow. Not the lawyer's job but in the zealousness to defend and risk and make sure that their client doesn't take on to risk the big picture and the long term relationships get lost so. So that's me and then defense sector is a fascinating sector in New Zealand it's particularly interesting because we spend an awful lot more here on domestic products on clothes on food. Then we do on anything that's at the big end and and so there's you know thousands of companies supply defense here and important for all of them to have a good relationship we want to see great. Good value purchasing by government we also need to see successful thriving local businesses so so being part of that mix and trying to make sure that we move everybody in the right direction together is really important so that's me. Wow. No I love it I love what I love about especially defense work right which is a sector I'm in in the US. So when you've got leopards who are pretty much singular right they've got their spots they hide out in the terrain but then you've got the zebras who all hide out together so that you know only the slow and the old get picked off right when they all have to run from as prey. So they kind of hide amongst their stripes so interesting when I was in New Zealand. I did observe and talk to a lot of folks who absolutely sort of self subsistence is almost a sense of a source of national pride there I think so much of what goes on in New Zealand is built in and around what New Zealand can make themselves and then supply to themselves there's not a lot of import maybe automobiles or something but they're you know they're very self sufficient is that sort of one of those things that that exists also in that defense space in your experience. So I think in theory yes in practice probably no so I think interestingly inside. I don't mean to beat up on procurement people but it often sounds like am but some of them deserve it some of them deserve it and the exemplars need to be encouraged but I think if you track through what's happened here has been very similar from around the world the government procurement and saving money cheapest price blah blah blah all of that good stuff that never worked was was a guide for a long time and so for over time more of this is right the way across the government. More and more products would be supplied from overseas because our local. You know we don't have the economies of scale that other countries have and so often our local suppliers would get beaten on because that lower price and so we had a change in procurement rules maybe. Maybe eight to 10 years ago where it became value for money but what we saw was people going blah blah blah value cheapest price and it was just you know it just became a new word to me chips price so we actually got nowhere with it over the past. And it's actually two years since they were launched. We've had this greater interest from government in broader outcomes and saying how do we actually make sure that more of our local businesses get to see the government spend because we should be able to do better but they are they needed to have a broader perspective now it's been a long slow process. Some of the articles I've written. It was when I wrote in line of defense magazine which was in there a couple of months ago and I did a report card on progress with broader outcomes. And I think I gave them a C must try harder but frankly to God it's when I wrote the article it said deep must try hard and then I thought. It's a bit too brutal because we do need to encourage the good ones so so I gave them a quick remark and put them up to see. But if you ask my mother sees not good enough so it's not good enough yet so so we are seeing some changes here but one of the other things which is really interesting is that we have all these amazing tech companies in New Zealand who only supply overseas. You know we're famous all over the place people here won't even know the names of the companies you know we have people employing 50 to 100 people who do no domestic work at all because they would create a new product. Talk to the world world would go yet we want this venture capital money come in from overseas and their entire focus has been outside now I guess for those guys a long term success would be actually getting. To be supplying to New Zealand as well. So then you get to COVID and so we've got broader outcomes running as a new concept before COVID hit, and that suddenly gave us the very compelling evidence for why having more local supply and strengthen supply chains with your local suppliers. They perfect sense but of course you can't fix it. The minute the borders close, it's not so easy, but there was some, there was some great examples so one of my favorites was the NZ sock company so, and one of the things they, they have our ballistic socks. And so they, they do remarkable work with New Zealand wall that they could make these high performance technologically advanced socks. So basically, I chatted to them early on in COVID they needed a bit of tooling done so that they could then switch their machines from socks to masks and. So, you know New Zealand business, the one we do have tooling expertise, but it's, you know the easy lazy thing is to send it to China. And some of the went started making masks now have spoken to them for ages but it was a that was a nice example of, we do have the expertise, but we actually need to make sure that we have procurement people who are enabled and able and willing to buy local. I think the US has seen that same reliance that we had I mean your vision for what needs to be done, you know long term for better outcomes the US got bit as well. A lot of our resourcing being done offshore chip sets in things that were selling to the defense sector to critical infrastructure sector now big problem. So we see Intel gearing up going to build new chip plants but all this stuff takes years to fix, you know that the pivot the pivot back to local consumption by local manufacturing keeping all the tax dollars here the earnings here, all that stuff. So, it isn't unknown but it's definitely a change of mindset that's been, you know offshore offshore offshore cheaper cheaper you know to your point. So, it, I think it's good vision on your part to continue to push that line and the CD grade, I think the US would have an F right now actually. So the CD grade is actually perhaps gentle, but you know don't stop pushing, it's all because you don't want to end up where we were. It's, it's, it's a difficult position, and especially defense which moves you know slowly right to big industry. So I did have an opportunity to visit with one of our security superstars that is big in New Zealand and around the world and that's Gallagher security down there in Hamilton I don't think too far away from you. Have you ever have you. Yeah, sir Williams a gentleman of one of he's a night, you know he's knighted now sir William so he's an amazing guy. Have you had an opportunity to interact with that group at all in your business dealings. Yes, no, I definitely do in my previous role with Defense Industry Association I went and visited Gallagher's and actually one of the things that struck me about them was that they did a tour of the whole factory in operations and one of the things that was so interesting was that they geared up for the whole spectrum from robot vacation and I was looking at the we're doing injection molding all robot driven and then they had people in other parts of the factory doing hand construction and artisan work because that particular product needed the artisan and another product needed the robot. And so they've got the ability to do the whole range and so William is delightful every time I get a chance to meet with him it's always a pleasure. I was when I got down there and it's been quite maybe a decade ago but it absolutely brilliant company I mean I thought from the way they were so internally resourced. You know here's a model that I wish we had available in the US for other security products that were sold in the US at the time. So it was a it was a refreshing and wonderful to see what they were doing. We have been chatting like already halfway three so let we're going to jump to a break real quick for one minute. So come we'll be back in a minute stick around we'll be talking with Jenny vickers when we get back. You know this is Howard wig, the proud host of hold green a sync tech Hawaii program. We air every other Monday from noon to 1230. And my guests are subject matter experts in bringing Hawaii to 100% clean energy by 2045. So we're naming not just at the electricity, but also at ground transportation, exciting stuff. Please join me. Hey thanks for hanging around we're talking with Jenny vickers she is live with us from New Zealand today. Jenny your background's been amazing and I know that you are now kind of working with Fortinet so let's give them a little bit of love. How's it been to enjoy a new relationship kind of during coven. I mean, I'm not sure if you're doing bd or says how that's working out but you know huge name in the industry I'm a fortinet user myself, a big fan of their products. What's it been like to engage with an organization like that and help them you know share their love during you know coven you know with the impacts to business down there. Yeah, so thank you and the fortinet is a great company. And I think I said at the very beginning that that highly ethical drive for a business is so important for me because I have in my career in the past been in a few places where you sit and look at the ethical dilemmas dilemmas and the behaviors of some people and so like no I don't want to be there again because it's a stressful and exhausting place to be and you can manage your own ethics you can't always manage those of other people. So, so great company so they've one of the things I've been looking at particularly was what the corporate social responsibility projects might look like so. Jay Garcia is very well known to people in us in the US and around the world so he's a former Marine and he heads up the veteran 40 that program for 40 net and so the there's a chronic shortage of cybersecurity professionals around the world. And we need to do something about it so for that has made a pledge to to contribute a million more people into the cyber workforce so I've been looking at what can we do here and spending a lot of time talking to Australia as well around how they're using the internet training to support veterans to go into industry so so that's taken a lot of my time. We're seeing a lot of change in New Zealand in the last couple of years in the way we look at tertiary education. So how do we make sure that we don't put people through university and then spit them out the other end with very high student loans and no jobs because they're not anchored to the workplace. Yeah so a massive transformation the tech sector here has done a great job of being part of that process. And one of the interesting findings from their recent research was that we have a skills mismatch in technology not necessarily a shortage of people. So we still have people and so and I've been looking recently about how many people are coming out of university with web design skills or with active element or some of the things where the demand is actually in security and you know security jobs are so broad and so wide. And I think area of I think of interest to you is is we need to get that better convergence between OT IT physical security and cyber security and I did notice I'm going to quick shout out to the fabulous Nairi Keller who is one of the global influences this year and she is an ASIS chairman here in New Zealand and I noticed the other day she was about to start studying that convergence of physical security and cyber security. So I'm looking forward to seeing a lot more in that space and it's it's an area that fortunately they're very passionate about. Yeah I love that commitment to train a million people you know Microsoft I think committed to 250,000 so if it's going for a million that's that's they're not on Microsoft scale that's for sure. So that's a really good and maybe it was 250 million I could be misquoting there but I think it was 250,000 but that's that is a worthwhile endeavor and we need it all across all across the planet. So I mean in Fortinet it's a global company right so they should be able to be an influencer there and all the market space and be able to help out that's that's incredible. So let's let's talk a little bit about I have sex so I have said global influencer you got the number one in your category. Congratulations, you know first of all for that it's a there were I think they were like 20 and each category so you know getting the number one wasn't easy this is a sort of an interesting and a difficult accomplishment. What, what does influencer what does that role sort of mean to you what do you think about it because you know we're talking off camera a little bit about that. It's not like a tick tock influencer per se. We're security influencers we feel passionately about protecting people protecting assets and you know national defense all these types of constructs so we're where I hope we're a different influencer than a tick tock influencer personally. But give us give us your your take on that influencer role and you know how how you help to you know fulfill you know what what what it meant to your height you know when you got it what all the things that you've done that you thought hey oh this must be why I finally got some recognition you know or whatever. Yeah. So, um, so I mentioned before that I grew up in the UK my amazing fabulous mother was the headmistress of a school for handicapped children for a very long time and she did a whole number of firsts in her role as headmistress around supporting disabled children to give them better quality of life and I think one of the things I learned from her very early on is the pleasure you get personally from supporting other people and helping them so in her role long before social media her job was to connect the people with the money with the cause. And so I think I learned those skill sets from watching my mom and the benefits you get from being part of that supportive community but also being able to do that within the commercial world so for me influencing is really about helping connect people together. Um, so that the right people are talking because I'm so overall the conversations about silos and stove pipes and blah blah blah and it's really you know what can we do together although I must say a very quick story which I read in a post a number of years ago about silos and we talk about you know people in silos but actually somebody did the research and silos are designed with air holes to keep the grain fresh and therefore the whole point of the silos that's designed to let things flow. Ah, and so it's a bit like my zepid zepid the leopard never changes its spots is also the opposite of what is actually true and from where the story came from anyway that was a small diversion I needed to share but anyway so for me influencing is about connecting and making a difference to people because the more people I know that means that gives me the chance to amplify to more people but for their benefit not my so. So that's what influencing needs for me and that was what I got to do in my defense industry role was to connect into as many connect as many businesses in with defense as I possibly could. And a lot of my early successes were all around connecting businesses with businesses so we have some of the amazing tech companies amazing manufacturers, you know, government procurement cycles particularly in the defense sector along industry needs cash it needs money on the door. And so the company to company collaborations were those which we were starting to see and and now I'm not in the defense industry role anymore I'm still connected with all of those people and I'm daily delighted when I see that one of them's got a defense contract or they've moved on with the next stage. Because I would keep saying it's a long game. It's a long game and you need to be playing in there. I'm not going to team sport so I can't use any of those analogies but the fact is, you know, if you're playing a long game you need to be dancing in the background. While you're waiting. I think I think influencing is a team sport I mean obviously you're you're sort of in the middle of all those teams like oh do you know about this team over here did you know that they do that. And so that that putting together people is a is a it's a it's a really a critical function I think in any industry, whether it be national defense in the commercial in any geo environment you know cities towns. There's these folks that seem to kind of have their finger on the pulse at all different levels of things that are happening and they just happen to know people so you know tying those things you know up and down across those silos. You know three silos over from the bottom to the top and it's amazing what happens you know I am. I loved it I like introducing people and some watching them just have to do amazing things that I think that just helps us all, you know it's a good thing that you're doing down there is the is the community large so the, the influence reward is obviously prestigious have you gotten a lot of feedback from the communities that you work in down there that you know kind of now I'm sure buys online so they probably see it online but we're not able to get the benefit of being out in public with a big banner hanging behind just go a number one influencer you know and and drawing people to a venue you know a stage or whatever it may be. So how's how's the reaction been amongst your community there are probably larger more reaction amongst my global community rather than the local. Although the physical security community in New Zealand. You know this is that their space and so with the physical security guys, lots of attention in the defense and national security only gradual awareness of it but you know the awards have to become. They can go through their own transition so big in the world eventually it'll arrive in New Zealand so but it's been it's been a fabulous experience being named and for me the benefit of being named at that number one spot for thought leadership was how can I use that to support so and and that's the benefit that comes to me so one of one of the ones to watch winners from New Zealand was and keep the Dakar and she also by chance lives not far from Gallagher's and and so she and I have been been engaging quite a lot so and I'm introducing her to people. She's a cyber security ninja evangelist looking at helping younger people stay safe in the cyber community so absolutely somebody we need to be supporting. So if I get to use my influence to support younger people then that gives me really good. I love that isn't it even so much better it's even so much better I love I love your work I love what you're doing down there. It's a shame we're not going to get to meet in London but I'm definitely going to get back down to New Zealand soon so we can can meet in person have a cup of tea. The, so we've got a 30 seconds or so left just a closing thought maybe on on anything you'd like to say to share with our audience today. I think I would say by New Zealand by our products. Have a look at what we're doing. We have massive companies we also have tiny companies but for most of the things we make here and do here. We do it with love and with as much caring as we can possibly inject into a product so so I'd say by New Zealand products and help us get out of lockdown because it's a bit lonely. Your company is mannequins it's time to get out. I hope you get out soon I hope you guys get out of lockdown soon Jenny I truly appreciate you being with us today by New Zealand folks you heard it here today. Aloha everybody and take care out there.