 relationship with the Indo-Pacific world. And we have got an exciting show for you this afternoon. I have to tell you that, given the events in the world, we should have a lot of things to talk about this afternoon. I'm going to ask our illustrious panel to introduce themselves to all of you out there and also encourage you. Get a pen, get a piece of paper out. You think of a question, put it down and send it in and we'll see whether we can get it. So we're going to begin if we're using the map of the world from the northern hemisphere all the way down to Downanda. So we'll start off with Harrison. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I'm Chi Young Harrison Kim. I'm an associate professor of Korean history at the University of Hawaii at Manoa in the Department of History. My teaching and research focus on North Korea and also North-South Korean relations as well. But I'm also interested in global histories of urbanization and immigration and also labor as well. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you, Harrison. We'll move on to Japan, which is go ahead, Christy. Hello, hi everyone. My name is Christy Gavella and I am the director of the Center for Indo-Pacific Affairs at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, which is a new research center which is just created last year with the support of congressional funding to look at security policy issues. I'm also an assistant professor in the Department of Asian Studies at UH Manoa where I look at the intersection of economic and security issues. So I look at things like trade war as well as the role of technology and cyberspace, outer space, all kinds of issues that really look at the intersection of really complicated things. I also have experience on the policy side. I used to work at the Daniel King NOA Asia Pacific Center for Security Studies, which is the Department of Defense Institution. And I also spent some time in Washington DC, think tanks. Thank you. Thank you, Christy. We're going to depend on, by the way guys, if you don't let me dominate the show. So if you got a question when we get started to ask one of your fellow, it'll kind of indicate that we'll make sure we have a cross discussion. So we're going to go to Suzie now and the Pacific Island. Aloha mai kakou. My name is Suzie Var Islam and I'm the president of the East West Center in Honolulu, Hawaii and in Washington DC. And I'm very excited to really talk about Pacific Islands Pacific Islands Development Program that was established at the East West Center in 1980 has had a long history of connections with the Pacific, much like the University of Hawaii. And the East West Center was established in 1960 to promote relations and understanding among people and nations of the United States, Asia and the Pacific. So I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much, Governor. Thank you. Thank you, Suzie. And we have arrived down on the Amanda. Please introduce yourself. Thank you, Governor and Aloha mai kakou. I'm Amanda Ellis. I'm a quasi, a Kiwi Aussie, although people do tell me that the Kanga Wee Wee, which is what we call the kids, is a much better name. I previously served as New Zealand's Ambassador to the United Nations and was Deputy Secretary in our Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, but also spent time working in the financial sector in Australia. I'm an economist and worked at the World Bank and the OECD and currently serve as the Executive Director for Asia Pacific for the ASU Julianne Wrigley Global Future Lab. And I have to say for Suzie, I'm a proud alum of the East West Center where I met my wonderful husband. Wow. You know how many relationships have developed at the center? I can't practically, I think we must have about 20, at least 20% of the students who went there got married to each other. It was just really, I don't know. Anyway, let's get started. We, you know, we can't avoid, we're going to talk about, international affairs. You can't avoid the current, the current Alice in the room, so to speak, and that is the situation in Israel. Now, I know that's the other side of the world from where some of the countries may be located, but it's obviously impacting everybody. So I want to start with you, Christy. And the reason I'm starting with you is that Japan, Japan is now currently the president, I think, or they're the chairman or whatever the title is for the G7, which is the, you know, the most prominent nations of the democratic nations in the world. And Japan, five of the G7 nations issued a statement strongly supporting Israel. Japan kind of, we would say in Hawaii, Kanalua, you know, sort of doing both. They condemned, obviously condemned the attack by Hamas, but they then sort of also said that Israel should be very careful about their actions as well. Something along that. Tell us a little bit about that distinction between the rest of the G7 in Japan and what is happening? What is the Japanese position? Clearly everyone around the world is looking at the tragic situation in the Middle East, and you're correct. There was a strong statement from the G7 countries about the attacks and condemning them. And Japan did join in condemning those attacks, but as you said, there was a bit of a nuance in its response in that it also expressed concern about the number of casualties in the Gaza Strip caused by the Israel Defense Forces in their response and basically called on both sides to exercise restraint. And this is something that we've seen from Japan many times in the past. Whenever there is an escalation of tensions, Japan has called for restraint from both sides and progress on achieving a two-state solution that reflects the needs and desires of the Palestinian people. And that's really been something that you see consistently. And this is different from the U.S. position, of course. But Japan, for various reasons, tries to both take a position as humanitarian but also express concern for the Palestinian people. More broadly, though, I think Japan is concerned about this situation as a sign of the deteriorating rules-based order. So the attack on Ukraine, for example, these things are taken by many in Japan to be signs that the world order is fraying and that there is less cause for countries and actors to not attack each other, which, of course, is very alarming to people in Japan who feel that the rules-based order is what is holding them back from having to deal with this kind of conflict and chaos. So I think that Japan is very concerned about this, but they are also attentive to these nuances and response. But Japan is called for self-determination for the Palestinian territories, which is slightly different, I think, than some of their colleagues on G7, which brings us to- These events don't only affect international policy, but I noticed, Amanda, that one of the spinoffs, I mean, all the way down in Australia and New Zealand, there seemed to be some internal tensions developing between some of the more recent- I guess you would call them more recent immigrants to Muslim and Israeli immigrants to that area of the world. I mean, how is that affecting or how will that affect policy in New Zealand and Australia? Thanks, Governor. I wanted to start by making it very clear that I'm speaking as an individual. I'm no longer in the employee of the New Zealand government, so these are my personal views, not views of government. And of course, we had a change of government over 90 New Zealand. We have moved from a Labour government under Prime Minister Priscipkin, and you're right, there was a little difference in nuance between him and the previous foreign minister. President Nia Mahuta, who actually lost her seat in the election, so we've now moved to a new government, which will be a coalition between the National Party and the Right-wing Act Party, and potentially New Zealand's first, waiting to hear on the last vote something. But both New Zealand and Australia have made it very clear that a two-state solution is what is hoped for, and both countries have made it clear that it's very important to protect the Indian lives. Now, in terms of internal dynamics in both countries, one in every four in both Australia and New Zealand is an immigrant or born outside the country. So it is a large population of those who are first generation. And we are very much hoping that the kinds of perspectives that we would want to see among a harmonious nation will occur in both places, but you're right, there has been some concern about anti-Muslim and anti-communist sentiment. You know what's interesting about, and this question may be a little unfair, and if it is, give it a shot anyway. And that is that, you know, what I found really interesting is getting back to the G7. Five countries, United States, and Great Britain, France, and let me see, Italy, Germany, five of the countries made very strong statements about the conflict, basically supporting Israel. Japan thought of cut in the middle. Canada, which is a fellow Commonwealth country, hasn't said anything at all, at least that I could find anywhere. How does, does that reflect kind of the position of New Zealand and Australia in this matter? Governor, that's a really hard one. I'm actually in Vancouver right now at the international leadership. That's why you got the question I was looking at. Yeah, so I can find out a little bit more for you, but I think the general sentiment is that a two-state solution is demanded. And from a personal perspective, when I look at the terrible suffering that the Palestinian people have been through, does not justify a mass terrorist act, but in my previous role at the World Bank. I spent a lot of time working with women entrepreneurs in particular from the Palestinian region, and it's a very hard situation to do yet. So from the perspective of Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, I know I'm on safe ground to say that all three countries think it's very important to protect civilian lives, and all three countries are concerned about the deterioration rules-based order that Christie referred to earlier. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to jump up north again to Korea, because some of, I just had some of my, some people I know in Korea, a conversation about the same subject. And it seems that what Korea's really worried about is whether these events, both with starting with the Ukraine and then the situation in Palestine and between Palestine and Israel, whether this will trigger something from North Korea, and North Korea and, you know, this may be the opportunity for North Korea to do so, or that kind of thing. Is there any validity to that perspective? Well, thanks, Governor. Well, there was that report yesterday that the Hamas might be using North Korean weapons, and this created a small stir, and of course North Korea vehemently denied this allegation. But, you know, but the situation in Korea, but when we say Korea, it is, it is a highly complicated place, geopolitically, and there's North Korea and South Korea. And on the issue of the current happening in, in the Middle East, the two sides cannot be more different. So North Korea does not recognize Israel as a legitimate country. It only recognizes Palestine, which, which had, with which it has had a relationship since the 1960s. But on the question of Hamas, North Korea is very uncertain. North Korea officially does not support any sort of quasi-military terrorist, that's not even say terrorist, but quasi-military semi-state entities. But Palestine is an exception, and it is a partner to North Korea. But Hamas, North Korea has problems with. Now, from South Korea, Israel is seen as one of its major allies, as part of this global, you know, a block that is headed by the United States. And of course, South Korea always wants to be the America's BFF. And in that, and through this relationship, Israel gets the support of South Korea. But as, as Christie pointed out, for a country like South Korea in Asia, you cannot, you know, often take a simply unilateral step. So South Korean government and the public does support a two-state solution to the region. But at the moment, with the very conservative president in power, the support for Israel is the, the most loud expression. And just as a small caveat, when you go to a, the so-called right-wing protest demonstrations in South Korea, the protesters will hold three flags. Of course, the South Korean flag, and of course the American flag, and third flag, the Israeli flag. That's right. So Israel is a symbol of South Korea's right-wing, very conservative sector. So on this matter, at least on the surface, the expression of supporting Israel is clear. Well, thank you. You know, I know that the situation is developing across the Pacific, Susie, and so it may not be clear, as clear as it is elsewhere, or it might be, if it is. But I'm thinking that the issue in the Pacific in recent times has been China. And what China's doing in vis-a-vis, China's new, or not new, but the renewed interest in the South Pacific countries. Now, how is that affecting any of these things? What's happening in the, with the Pacific Island? Thank you, Governor, for that question. You know, China has been in the Pacific, and from a U.S. perspective, of course, that we have heard from many leaders that the activities of investments, unsustainable investments in the Pacific have created challenges, particularly in the Solomon Islands or Papua New Guinea in the South Pacific and Melanesia. And we see their investments in infrastructure, education. So kind of creating this, you know, non-traditional sort of tension between two powers as it's viewed by many. But for Pacific Islanders in the Pacific Island Forum, which really comprises about 18 members, you know, from what I have heard from many is that they don't want to view, have to choose sides and have to pick. What's important to Pacific Islands is their own existential threats they view as climate change. Being large Pacific Ocean nations rather than small island states, they see that as their number one threat with rising sea levels, the biodiversity of their oceans, the illegal, unregulated, underreported fishing, you know, trade, not having access to markets. All of those things are the highest priority for Pacific Islands. And they often say they are an example of peace and stability in this world where we see a lot of crisis and conflict as we're seeing in the Middle East. And certainly, I would imagine that concerns from many leaders is that this takes the eye, what's happening in the Middle East, takes the eye off of the needs of the Pacific Islands. Those commitments that were made at the White House Summit this September and last year of millions of dollars of investment, openings of embassies, the launching of the Peace Corps and educational commitments, even that we have seen at the East West Center with the resilient Pacific Island leaders, with the professional fellowship program, project governance, investing in finance and legal, all of those things. You know, if you're a Pacific Island leader or a young person in these Pacific Islands makes you wonder, will I really see the fruits of those commitments play out in real investments and really opening in the markets when attention for large countries is now diverted elsewhere because of crisis and conflict. Talking about climate change and how important it is to the Pacific, what is Japan doing in terms of supporting worldwide concern about climate change? And especially with reference to the fact that Japan is an island nation, like in a way like the rest of the country. So Japan is a party to many of the key climate change agreements. It also tries to address climate change through its official development assistance or ODA, which it gives to many countries in the region, including the Pacific Islands for things like climate change adaptation or mitigation, etc. It also has a number of collaborative initiatives, for example, with Hawaii on trying to work on decarbonization and all these kinds of goals. So Japan is very conscious of climate change and active in, for example, championing this sustainable development goals of the UN. It's also received some criticism that it could do more and that it supports, for example, continued use of coal in various places, and it's been too slow to transition away from that. So it's certainly not without its detractors in terms of climate change policy, but in general it has a multi-pronged strategy for trying to tackle the problem and has been very active in trying to especially address the needs of developing countries through assistance. One of the things that one of the interesting situations in the recent past was the fact that Korea, interestingly enough, seems to be a country that's technologically doing, creating things that will really make or reduce pollution, air pollution, and garbage disposal and all that. And it's among their products that are out there for export and so forth, but Korea as a country seems to be unable to get itself off of petroleum energy. Am I reading this right or am I saying this right, Harris? You're absolutely right, Governor. So South Korea has a rather complicated problem. So on the one hand, it supports and it kind of leads in many ways on recycling and sustainable practices, electric cars, and so forth. And we're moving away from coal power plants, but industries, chemical industry, steel industry, which are so important for the country, these are still enormously polluting entities and South Korea has very little control over them. And also, you know, everyday populations dependency on petroleum, it is still at a very, very high point. You know, South Koreans love their cars, South Koreans love their everyday consuming habits, packaging. So there are two different sides, but there are goals that the government wants to meet according to many of these agreements. Just last month, there was a huge climate justice march and a rally that was one of the largest in history in South Korea. So the public is becoming more aware of this problem. Now, may I just say one thing about Japan? So Japan and South Korea are in many ways partners in this kind of practice to reduce and slow down climate change. You know, but the Fukushima wastewater release that's been happening for the past two months, it's caused a major headache and such a contention among the public in South Korea and in China. Somehow, in the Pacific and North America, we're not seeing this debate happening, but this has been a major point of debate for the past year that Japan, which says it's leading this kind of climate change initiative, but at the same time releasing millions of tons of wastewater into the Pacific. So they are still really dire issues that's happening at the moment. Well, thank you for that. I see you nodding your head. I'm going to let you get into that, and then we're going to let Christy tell us why Japan is doing what it's doing or if it's not doing what they say. Thank you, Noah. I wanted to pivot and talk a little bit about Australia and New Zealand and the climate commitment. So New Zealand was one of the first countries to declare a climate emergency, as the UN Secretary General has asked. And Gutierrez has become more and more vocal in talking about not just the climate crisis, but a climate emergency and more recently global boiling. So the UN is personally upping the rhetoric around climate. And with very good reason, as Susie says, it is an existential threat, particularly for low-lying Pacific islands. And Australia has the largest emissions from coal of any of the G20 countries and the highest emissions per capita globally. Yet, ironically, huge potential with solar, of course, given the sun factor, and with rare earth minerals, and the minerals required for the transition to the clean economy. Now, New Zealand, under the government which has just departed, had very strong commitments to climate action. With this new coalition with the ACT Party, which seems to be quite differently positioned, we're hoping those of us who are New Zealanders around the world who have a commitment, we have a big group called Kiwis and Climate. We're hoping very much that there will not be a change. The New Zealand grid is already 90% renewable. And both Australia and New Zealand have a very acute awareness of the importance of the climate crisis to Pacific neighbors. And under our official development assistance have provided significant contributions. When I ran our development agency some 10 years ago, we made an initial collective investment as the US, Australia, New Zealand, plus private sector companies, Japan. All of us came together to make an initial $650 million investment to help Pacific Island countries meet their goal of 50% renewable by 2020, which Susie knows they didn't. And there will be a workshop starting at the East Coast Centre this week, actually, around how Pacific Island countries can learn from Hawaii's 100% renewable energy commitment. So I think that's very exciting and it's a broader coalition. So I am very much hoping that there will continue to be a focus on the importance of climate. The post COVID environment has also been a difficult one because of the additional funding and debt that countries have taken on. But to close, we cannot forget that the IMF came out just two weeks ago with a new data point of $7 trillion, trillion with a T in fossil fuels subsidies 2022. Now that is almost twice what we spend on global education and the cost of the green transition is $1 to $3 trillion. So this $7 trillion of implicit and explicit subsidies makes absolutely no sense. And from an economist's point of view, we need to be getting the economic signals right, as the Pacific Islands tell us, to be moving in the right direction on climate. As I heard here at the International Leadership Association this morning from a couple of generals who were with us, they were telling us that climate is now the most important ingredient in impending conflict and the kind of associated migration we can expect alongside it. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to take a short break right now. And we'll be back in a minute. But when we come back, we got a couple of questions actually for Suzy that should be really interesting. And then we, but before that, I'll have Christie just talk a little bit about Japan's, you know, countervailing efforts. So we're going to go on a break. We'll be right back. You know, we have gotten some of the audience excited about their conversation. And I actually have a couple of questions for Suzy. But before we go there, just giving Christie a chance, tell us about Japan and how there seem to be walking a little strangely on the climate change issue. With the essential section of the world. Right. So the topic that was brought up before the break was the issue of Japan releasing wastewater from the nuclear plant. And so this is a great example of how the perceptions of risk with a lot of these things differ between countries and how these can become extremely contentious and political. So there are differences of opinion across countries and within Japan about the safety of this actually. So this wastewater basically from the Japanese government's perspective needs to be released because they have these tanks that are full. And they've had the tanks inspected and measured for radiation by the International Atomic Energy Association. And they have said that it is safe to do so and many other countries have concurred with that. So they have released it. But obviously there are a lot of concerns on the parts of environmental activists and particularly China and Korea are close by and also really concerned about the environmental effects for what it's worth. The South Korean government has actually said that they agree with the decision that South Korean people are not necessarily convinced and also many people in Japan are very concerned because obviously the water is being released right next to their fishing grounds, etc. So I think this is one of the challenges and one of the consequences that we've seen from the conflict in Ukraine and I'm sure that we'll see if there are more tensions in the Middle East is that the search for alternative sources of energy becomes very fierce and that people start gravitating back towards nuclear. So we've seen Japan start to discuss restarting reactors using Germany start to have those conversations. And so I think that, you know, as we think about solving climate change, we have to think about these different energy sources and the risks that they pose because to some nuclear energy is clean energy but obviously in this situation it's generated a lot of risks that people consider to be detrimental perhaps more so than the benefits that they bring so I think on the part of Japan they maintain that it's safe but it's understandable that this is contested. Hey, thank you. We have a question. We have questions are flying in right now guys for this. You're doing a great job. This is a couple for Susie really the first question is, and when it's actually, or Amanda and Susie and it says that yesterday's election in New Zealand resulted in a new Prime Minister, who emphasized the need to develop a closer commercial relations with the PRC. Would this lead to anything? Will this new stance, if it is in fact a new state, will this lead to any changes in the relationship with China? And how would that affect the U.S. relations or the like? Who, either one of you? Go, go, go, go for it, Amanda. And I got a Native Hawaiian type question for you, Susie and the Pacific Island. Go ahead, Amanda. Okay, well for New Zealand, China is a very important trading partner, but New Zealand has never shied away from ensuring that human rights remains part of the conversation. So you're right, Governor, when you said earlier that there's that balance many countries in the region, balancing between the U.S. and China as the two big powers, but New Zealand has a number of strategic arrangements with the U.S. We have ANZIS, for example, which, although New Zealand is proudly nuclear free and is obviously not part of the new arrangement between the U.S., Australia and the U.K., facilitating nuclear submarines, New Zealand has very close ties with the U.S., and we are involved in a range of initiatives out of Hawaii. For example, with Indo-Pacific Command, I co-chair the Education Working Group of the Environment Security Forum. We have all sorts of people-to-people exchanges between the U.S. and New Zealand, and I think the latest perspectives from the New Zealand public would probably be the fact that there is a reality around the need to diversify our trading partners. There's a move that many are concerned about that there seems to be a shift from rules-based order to power, and of course we are moving into a more multipolar world, that we're looking at economics now versus security, and the old focus on efficiency now needs to factor in resiliency. We've had a number of big climate events in New Zealand very recently, which mean that that becomes a reality as well. So, summary would be very important relationship, New Zealand, U.S., many ties going back- But you don't see any change happening with the relationship with the U.S. I personally do not, and of course I cannot speak for the new government, but I personally do not see a change coming in terms of the close relationship between the U.S. and New Zealand, and of course the Polynesian ties between Hawaii and Aotearoa, a Polynesian Virgin Society, a language which is very close, the Polynesian connection, all of that will remain very important for New Zealand. Okay, for Susie, you know, this new, all these events, Israel, Kama, Ukraine, all of these things, the U.S. is becoming very much involved in one way or the other, obviously. And there are people who think that that might be distracting, that this may be the time when China asserts itself even more aggressively into the Pacific and even may take a more aggressive stance toward Taiwan. What's, if any, what's the feeling about that? Is that a worry anywhere in the region? I think people are, Governor, concerned about that, but, you know, when we look at that, what we thought the reaction of the PRC would be to the Ukraine is certainly different, and Christy could probably speak to that a little more than I can. But, you know, when we look at, you know, that the desire for stability, trade, peace and prosperity within that relationship, I think doing something assertive and aggressive would not be a favorable, in my opinion, to the PRC, that other ways of economic connections and relationships, rather than doing it. In a direct conflict, making that kind of move, when you could do it in other ways, I think has been, we have seen, has been very effective. So investments in education have been enormous compared to those of others, investments in infrastructure, investments in opening up markets. And I think that we need to be aware of, but we, I guess in the United States and in Hawaii, all benefit from that trade. So how we can balance, you know, this question, even on New Zealand, when I think about the complexity of relationships, that it's not a one or other. It's we can take a stance on, on international world order and what is the rule of law and it's still at the same time, find areas of economic benefit for one another, and that is sort of how the United States has maintained that relationship with the PRC. And I believe that that's how the Pacific, and others are viewing that relationship. Well, I think that bringing this little closer to home, and there's this question that's just, just out there and I, you know, this question says, if native Hawaiians should be successful in establishing some form of self governance in the future, how do you think that might affect our state's relationships with the Pacific nation? Well, right now, as we mentioned, the Pacific Islands Forum is really comprised of independent nations, Pacific Islands, United States, the state of Hawaii, Guam, CNMI, American Samoa have observer status in that regional body of what's the Pacific, although just as it was mentioned by Ambassador Ellis that the ancestral connections, this is the ancestral homeland, the superhighway between Aotearoa and Tahiti, Kealei, Kahiki, that connects us with our cousins. You know, oftentimes, you know, if you look at the Pacific Islands Forum 2050 strategy of the blue Pacific continent, we are not on the map. If you turn to page three on in that document, Hawaii is not on that map. And so there's not a recognition in that body of native Hawaiians as part of the Pacific, although I would say we all struggle with the same kinds of challenges of being, you know, sustainability of our oceans. You know, I often say that fish and pollution, no, no boundaries is the current. We can create these artificial boundaries, but we are connected regardless and going back to the, I'm sorry if I can just mention on Fukushima. Actually, the Pacific Islands Forum has gone to Japan many times. Speaking about our ocean that wraps around Hawaii as well is the long term impacts is, you know, that consultation that they were looking for in terms of in Japan and what does that mean for a place where we rely on the ocean. It is our way of life. It is life for Hawaiians. It is life for all of the Pacific. You know, this is an interesting question and they're flying in like, so you got to keep up the good work guys. So they're flying in like crazy. And here's an interesting question and it's not really with anybody's area, but it is about the Pacific and one of the maybe the weaknesses of all, which we should affect in the future is the idea that South America is a part of Indo-Pacific. I mean, it's a big part of it. And so this person notices that we don't have a speaker on Latin America, which that may change in the future, not that you're kind enough to mention it, but it says, what does the panel think about the decline of civil society in Latin America, where there is this very disturbing story about gangs running rampant in Ecuador and in other places. And for that matter, through the entire global South, and how does this decline affect what we can do and deal with what we're doing with the rest of the Pacific. I mean, how much of an impact that South America and what happens there have on any of your country. And I'll just toss that up there. How is it, you know, you haven't said anything and you're supposed to be an international expert, so I'm going to just pass that off to you. How much impact does South America have on what happens in the rest of the Pacific? A little, a lot. Yeah, I think a lot. Well, you know, South America, in a way, has shown us the positive sides of progressive politics and also progressive indigeneity politics as well. You know, governments that are established to serve the needs of the native peoples, underrepresented peoples, underprivileged peoples. So, you know, many of these cases came out from the so-called leftist or socialist governments, including Venezuela, Bolivia, and of course Cuba. So, you know, these countries all have extreme, severe problems like the gangs and the violence and the poverty. But at the same time, they did show us at points recently how progressive politics can uplift or try to address the issues for indigenous populations. And in that respect, I think, you know, there are some elements that we can learn from as people who embrace living here in Hawaii. And, you know, just on the topic, just briefly, there is a nationwide movement called the Korea Peace Now. And it's a movement that supports a peace treaty between North Korea, South Korea, and the United States. And it is, you know, there's a Hawaii chapter. And one thing that we try to do within this movement is to form solidarity, coalition partnerships with the sovereignty movement within Hawaii as well. You know, because it's the ordinary people and it's the native Hawaiians that deserve voice in what they say about the future of this place. To think about this place away from military strategy and tactics. But, you know, to reconceptualize this or place as a source of peace, multiculturalism, tolerance, sustainability. And in that respect, the voices of the indigenous native population has to be there. So I think in that respect, the Latin American cases can teach us something about those progressive politics. Fantastic. Does anybody else have something to add on that? If not, I'm going to save a little bit of time for it. Well, Christy, you look like you wanted to say something. I think Susie was also going to say something, but I would just point out that there are some areas in which South American countries are explicitly linked to Asian institutions. So for example, Chile and Peru are members of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum. And so in the newer conceptions of what we call Indo-Pacific, those countries aren't necessarily discussed, but in other Asia Pacific conceptions and other discussions, they very much have been. And certainly they're linked by trade and all kinds of other things. And when we have conversations in Asia about the global south and the shared concerns of developing countries across those countries are very much in the minds of policymakers. And so when I engage with policymakers in Japan and other places, I often hear a desire to know more about what those countries are thinking. The same kinds of concerns about competition with China are occurring in these other regions in South America and Africa, et cetera. So I think there's a lot of parallels and a lot of the conversations we're having today, I think really strongly demonstrate that this is not a closed regional conversation. These problems and these opportunities really span multiple areas. And so it's a fluid conversation. You know, we're going to bring the conversation back home a little bit to Hawaii. Now, I know that Korea and Japan have consulates in Hawaii. Now, there was a time when Australia, I think, had a consulate in Hawaii. And still does. And still does. 50 years history. Yes. So tell us what all three of you have. Or you all three of the countries you're talking about have confidence in what, what, what can, what can we do? What can the state of Hawaii do to expand the relationships with China, Japan, New Zealand. I mean, is there some kind of formula that we may not be pursuing that would help us? Maybe we'll start with you, Amanda. Yeah. And I want to say we are very lucky. Andrea Gleason is the current Australian Consul General and she sends her best wishes and says she'd love to be on the show at some stage governor. Similarly, the New Zealand Consul General, both, both terrific. But Australia has had a much longer presence 50 years plus in Hawaii and New Zealand was from 2014. So relatively new. Now the people to people exchanges are critical. And we've got some really exciting work going on through organizations like Elemental Accelerator, which has headquarters in Hawaii and has been investing in companies in both New Zealand and Australia in sustainability. Of course, from New Zealand's perspective, that very close Polynesian bond that we were all referencing. And next year everybody's looking forward to a pack fest, the Pacific Islands Festival, which will be held in Hawaii. So relationships are good. The trade is relatively small. I think because there's a free trade agreement between Australia and the U.S. Australia's, Hawaii exports to Australia last year were $150 million. That's not negligible, but it's not huge. Lots of tourism between both countries. So lots going on, I would say, and consulates doing an absolutely terrific job. We'll go to, let's go to Japan. Is there anything we need to do to improve the relationship between the state of Hawaii and Japan? Or is there pretty much working well? Well, I think the challenge about talking about Japan and Hawaii is that there's so much happening and these links are so deep and long lived that there is way too much to cover in a short comment. And I think that, you know, a lot of these connections, what's striking about Hawaii Japan relationship is that it's really at all levels. It's people to people, city to city, state to prefecture, you know, between the two countries that are allies and economic partners. So really, you know, at all these levels we have strong relationships. I think that after COVID there's still a lot of recovery to be done and restarting exchanges, resuming a lot of the programs that were paused. Certainly for folks that are in Hawaii, we know that tourists from Japan have not returned in full force yet, part of that's due to the weakness of the yen, etc. But I think that we have a strong foundation on which to build it's really about how to resume activity from COVID and then also how to look to the future and think about what kinds of new kinds of cooperation or perhaps turning old structures to new purposes that might be necessary to really ensure that we're moving forward together. And the same question to you, Harrison, with regard to Korea. I mean, I know Korea seems to be coming out of itself. Tourism has really picked back up again. And, you know, and the Consulate is doing a lot of work on promoting, you know, Korean culture and a lot of exchanges. But, you know, I have so many bad things to say about the Korean government presence in Hawaii. So, you know, I go to a lot of these events and sometimes I'm shocked. A huge event, you know, all the officials from both governments there, the military, but not a single native Hawaiian voice, not a single native Hawaiian representation. And I brought this up, you know, nobody is paying too much attention. So these things definitely have to change. The South Korean presence now needs to get beyond this kind of military dialogue and this kind of context that it wants to be in. And kind of reach out into the community, into the greater Hawaiian cultural landscape and do a better job in really, you know, embracing the entire culture of Hawaii. So I'm hoping that will happen. But at the moment, there are a lot of disappointments with the Consulate. Thank you. That's a very interesting point. You know, Kristi, I noticed that recently Hokkaido, Hokkaido, the Perfective Hokkaido, sent to Hawaii a cultural truth of Ainu, Ainu from Northern Japan. I mean, maybe that might be an idea for something like that from Korea. I don't know, but see, I'm going to give this to Susie now. Susie, you've had like several questions and you heard the comments about Native Hawaiian and their presence and it's become an issue. So what can, is there anything that we can do, maybe not necessarily just the East West Center, but in general, anything that can be done to expand the presence of Native Hawaiian in the international relationship? I think it's really critical because Hawaii's geographic location also are Kanakamali, the Native Hawaiian values that have welcomed on the shores of Hawaii that has allowed to this multicultural harmonious community that we have. You know, and I've got to say that one of the things we did at the East West Center this year was Korea matters for Hawaii and Hawaii matters for Korea, showing that the initial immigrants who came were welcomed by Native Hawaiians and integrated into the community. And there is a long standing relationship. So it's just reminding people just as Harrison said that this is a two way street, right? We embrace one another and how do we be like beef stew so that we are connected by these Hawaiian values, but we don't lose our individual, you know, culture and language, but we can live together in harmony as Martin Luther King Jr said when he was here in 1964. I think we have to make a concerted effort that the issues that we're seeing around the world that you said, you know, the great question about South America and Harrison's comment as well and Christie's and Amanda's on indigenous peoples and communities that indigenous knowledge is clearly wise and something that we need to bring back. And when we talk about that, I think it's in all of our interest to look at Hawaii's soul, which is something that you've been involved with governor and many leaders here in Hawaii looking at what is Hawaii's soul. How do all of us all of the countries that are here and do have relationships are educated here and go back home. What do they bring with them. And I see this when I went to Manila recently. And they're singing Aloha oi on the Queen's birthday in Manila, because they went to school here shows us that the 1960s class from East West center is singing and dancing hula, because the values, the native Hawaiian values that they took with them have resonated all of their lives they are at the fourth quarter of their lives. And still remember what they've learned here. So we have to hold up those values and be embraced by all that doesn't mean you lose your individuality of where you come from, but you embrace this place, and the people and the ancestors who have stewarded the land here in culture for generations. Well, you know, we got to invite you to be a host of this show that was a great great closing and we are right at that moment. And thank you. Thank you. You got everybody shot statement. Anything you want to say we'll start with Christie you go first, we'll go with Harrison, Amanda, and, and then Susie just real quick, like, go ahead, Chris. I would just say thanks again for having me on the show I think there are so many topics we could have talked about today and we've only scratched the surface so I really hope that we can have more dialogues like this in the future. Thank you. Go ahead, Harrison. Thank you so much guys I learned so much in the past hour and I hope to continue the dialogue. Thanks. Amanda. Yeah, and I love Susie's closing. I think Aloha, the spirit of Aloha really is the key to world peace. So Hawaii, Hawaii has the key. Susie. Mahalo Nui everyone I feel that you know we have to have these global conversations and this is just the beginning. Hawaii is going to play and continues to play a pivotal role in bringing people together and building bridges. Mahalo Nui. Thank you. Thank you all and thank you out there for listening to us. Thank you for your question. We apologize that we weren't able to get to every single one of them but we have gotten to as much as we can. Aloha everybody. Thank you so much for joining us and for participating with us in this expression of getting to know each other better.