 Okay, recording is on. Good morning everyone. Welcome to BC310, our course here today on church and ministry administration. We're going to get ready to start. Just request one of us to please pray with a class and then we will get started. Could somebody pray please and we'd start. Go ahead Asha. All right, that Asha is going to pray. What's going to pray? I'll pray fast. Okay. Father God, we are so very thankful for a new day that has come into our lives. We are thankful for your grace and mercy that has renewed every morning. We are thankful Father that you lead us in triumphal processions, Father, and that you teach us how to live a life that is victorious on this earth. And for everything, the Lord Father that you're doing in and through our lives, we are so very thankful for this platform, for APC Bible College, for every teacher, for pastor, and for every student who's part of this beautiful ministry. Father, we want to thank you. And this morning, Father, as we commit ourselves into your hands, we ask you to give us that wisdom and that favor to receive your word, to receive the teaching, Father, and be blessed and equipped and to do your work according to your will, Father, on this earth and be true citizens of your kingdom above, Father, spreading your gospel and doing your work as per your will. Help us guide us, strengthen us, Father, lead us, and we are so very thankful once again for helping us, Father. In all things, we give you glory, honor, and praise and ask this prayer in the precious and matchless name of Jesus our Savior. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you and good morning to everyone. Welcome to the class. Okay, no problem. I see the message from Arshad. No problem. You might get some issues. Okay. All right. So, we'll just quickly review what we had completed the week before last week. We did not have classes. But the week before, we went through talking about church staff management. We kind of completed that. So we'll just quickly review that part. And then today, we're going to talk about volunteer management, which again is a very important part of any Christian organization, whether it's the local church organization, local church as an organization or any Christian ministry. Very likely, we will have the involvement or the participation of volunteers. And volunteers have to be taken care of in a special way. It's not the same as how we would deal with church staff. Church staff is a very formal, you know, way. But volunteers, we have to think of it. So let's quickly review and we will get into this side of church administration. So church staff management, just to quickly review, we said there are staff, there are overall there's staff that are consultants, the volunteers. So we were focusing on, you know, how do we take care of the staff? So we went through right from the hiring process, you know, doing all the verifications, bringing them on, how we talked a little bit about compensation, excuse me, compensation and benefits, making sure that, you know, we pay people well to the best we can. We talked about managing staff or employees, how do you keep them motivated? How do we, you know, we can check their satisfaction, do review meetings, give them feedback, address difficult situations. We also need to constantly work on developing our staff because, you know, everything around us is changing. There are new tools, new ways of doing things, new understanding. So we have to keep everybody growing so then the organization will grow. So we talked about performance reviews, dealing with difficult situations. And I just give an example of what we, how we handle things. We take a, you know, what we can call as a three strikes approach in serious matters. And then we closed off by just, you know, thinking through on certain scenarios, especially when it comes to church, local church, because the life of the people, example, the church staff are also, in many cases, church members. And so there's an overlap. And so, you know, that is a very, very difficult ground, you know, to, to separate that. Okay. Now you're being dealt with as a staff. Now you're being dealt with as a believer in the congregation, you know, and we have to hold these two things in balance. And sometimes there are problems when these two overlap and how to be addressed it. So we went through some scenarios in that. Right. So today, we're going to move into the next part of taking care of the people who are serving in the organization. And we're going to talk about volunteers. So volunteers are a big part of any local church and any Christian organization. And thank God for volunteers. Yeah. Okay, let's read some scriptures. And then we will get into this. We could, could somebody read for us. One person can read Romans 12 4 to 8. Somebody could read Ephesians 4, 11 and 12. Somebody could read 1 Peter chapter 4, verse 10 and 11. We just read these scriptures and then we will get into the discussion. Somebody could read Romans 12, 4 through 8. Somebody please. Romans 12, 4 to 8. Okay. Romans 12, 4 to 8. Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has special function. So it is with Christ body, where many parts of one body and we all belong to each other. In his grace, God has given us different gifts for doing certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak up with as much faith as God has given you. If your gift is serving others, serve them well. If you are a teacher, teach well. If your gift is to encourage others, be encouraging. If it is giving, give generously. If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously. And if you have a gift of showing kindness to others, do it gladly. Okay. Thank you. Ephesians 4, 11 and 12. Ephesians 4, 11 and 12 says, and he gave the apostles and prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry for building up the body of Christ. Thank you. And 1st Peter, last one. 1st Peter, 4, 10 to 11. 1st Peter, 4, 10 and 11, please, somebody. Okay. 1st Peter, 4, 10 and 11. As every man had received the gift, even so minister the same one to another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as oracles of God. If any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God gives that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Amen. Thank you. So in all of these three passages, we see that believers have, you know, 1st Romans 12, all believers have been given certain gifts and grace and they're encouraged to use it to serve. Ephesians 4, we see that the responsibility of the 5-fold ministry is to equip saints so that saints can do the work of the ministry. And 1st Peter, 4, according to what God has given to us, we must use the gift that each one has received, everyone has received, everyone has to use them to serve one another. So that means in a local church setting or in a group of believers, there are people with different gifts, abilities that God has given and they need to be given the opportunity to use their gifts. So this is where, you know, volunteering or giving people the opportunity to volunteer is a big thing, you know. So we recognize a example in the church congregation. There are so many people, they have different gifts that God has given them, different grace. How are they going to use it? Well, let's give them the opportunity. Now, of course, we cannot take them all as staff and many of them may be having their own, you know, things that they're doing. So, but they're willing to give a little bit of their time, their skills and their energy, right? So you create opportunities for people to volunteer and they're willing to give this freely. So they freely give their time, their skills, their energy and they're doing this for the Lord Jesus Christ. And they, of course, are part of the local church, they understand the vision and they come alongside with the organization too. So giving volunteers an opportunity is wonderful. It's really, you know, living out these scriptures and saying, okay, come. So in each one, as God has given you the gift, use it to serve. But we have to think about this. Think that you think through how we're going to go about this. You know, how are we going to invite and engage volunteers? To what extent can we involve volunteers? Because of course, our volunteers may give a little bit of time, not all, they can't give all their time. You know, we can't expect from them the kind of commitment or, let's say, the involvement as we would from full-time staff because full-time staff are dedicated to that work. They're there to do it. So where can we meaningfully involve volunteers in the organization? And how do we structure the organization, the church or the Christian ministry, so that volunteers can also participate in a very meaningful way? And then we need to also talk about staff and volunteer engagement. That means ultimately, staff and volunteers have to come side by side to work with each other. And that has to be managed properly. So one of the things that we would recommend is that in making these decisions, involve the staff in deciding and determining how best to engage volunteers and how best to include volunteers. Because when you get down to ground zero or the ground level, the staff were doing the work. They are the best people to, not always, but in most cases, they're there to really understand, you know, this is where I can have some volunteers doing things without negatively impacting the work that's taking place. Or this is where I can engage volunteers so that overall we can do this work together. The staff were doing that. They, in most cases, are the best to decide on that. So we let them be a part of this whole process of deciding where to engage volunteers. But at the same time, sometimes staff can have a negative effect. They may say, no, I want to do everything myself. So they will actually prevent volunteers from coming alongside and serving. And actually, there are things that volunteers could be doing, which could relieve the staff so that the staff can give more of the time to other things. So that's the other side of it. But you need to say, hey, there are all these things which volunteers can easily do. So let's give it to the volunteers and the staff can focus on other things. So, but it's best to engage the staff in that whole process. Now, anything about, you know, there are benefits. What are the benefits of engaging volunteers? One big thing is that the whole congregation or people who are partnering with the Christian organization, they feel part of the whole ministry. They're not just, you know, they become contributors. They're not just spectators. You notice watching things happen. They are part of making things happen. Then it also gives opportunities to exercise spiritual gifts, which is what we read from the scriptures, that, hey, they can all use and serve meaningfully in their gifts. Now, not all these gifts have to be, you know, always preaching and teaching the word. It could be, you know, administration, leadership, compassion, so many ways people can use whatever gifts they have. And then it really shows that the local church is functioning as a body, right? Everybody's doing their part. And it gives opportunity to put into practice whatever the spiritual things we are learning. So we are learning from the word of God. Now, we keep hearing sermons, we keep hearing teaching and all of that. And then, okay, let's put it into practice. And so here, when we are actually doing things together, we are putting into practice all that we have been hearing. Of course, it expands the workforce. So now you have a lot more people doing work as part of the church or the ministry. It brings the added benefit that we don't have to pay for volunteers, you know, they're giving off their time and effort freely. So there is no expense. So these are some of the benefits I'm sure we could list some more if you think about it. Now, we must also be aware that there is limitations when we engage volunteers in the church or in the ministry. Volunteers may be available only for short periods of time. So in an entire week, they may be able to come in for two hours or four hours or a certain number of hours every week. They're not there all the time, you know, for 40 hours. Volunteers, in many cases, may have other higher priorities. Example, work, their workplace may demand them to do extra work at certain periods of time. Sometimes they may have work related travel. So those things we have to keep in mind. So that way, they may have said yes to a certain thing, but sometimes something of a higher priority, their work would demand that they pay attention there. So they may not be available to volunteer. And then another thing that we've observed is they need to transition from a corporate culture to a church culture. So the way people work in the corporate setting, there is good and bad, you know, there's a good things that they carry, which we need in the church or the Christian ministry organizationally. But then there also, you know, maybe some things that are not applicable in a church, Christian ministry context. In an example, in, in decision making, you, you know, maybe that person, if he is in charge of in his workplace, if he's in charge, if he is somebody who is task driven, very task driven, very, you know, could be very strong, could be very decisive, which is good, maybe for his work environment. But in the church culture, we need to be a little bit more gentle, they need to be more, you know, taking consensus approach, those kinds of things. So that they need to be a little bit of transition over there. And say, okay, look here, you know, let's, let's be a little bit more gentle, we're working with volunteers, and so on. So don't be so strong, so harsh, things like that. So there is that transition from a corporate culture to a church culture. In a corporate culture, a leader is a leader, you say something, it has to happen. In a church culture, a leader is a servant. So you lead by serving, you know, you want to be part of the whole thing, you get your hands and feet dirty, and get involved, things like that. So that transition needs to happen. And we also see that in some cases, volunteers may overcome it and underdeliver, you know, they may, they may say yes to so many things, but in practice, they are unable to keep all their commitments. And so we have to help them out of, you know, I'm just saying, okay, do what you can, no pressure to commit to so much. So there are some limitations, volunteer engagement. Now, in most cases, we are going to work in teams, right? It's, you know, there may be some some things where one person can handle the work. But in most cases, it's going to be teams, and the teams are going to be composite, it's going to be, you're going to have staff, full time staff, and they're going to have volunteers working, and so on. Now, what we at least our approach has been that in many, many areas, especially things that are very critical, we have dedicated full time staff who are, you know, committed to that work, that we know that we cannot have volunteers. I mean, volunteers maybe can be part of it. But they cannot be, we cannot be dependent on volunteers. So example, let's say on us during a Sunday service, in our worship team, you know, we have a lot of volunteers, but we also have dedicated staff in because that worship has to happen every Sunday, or in the, you know, the media thing, there are volunteers helping, but we have dedicated staff because that has to happen every Sunday. So certain things where things have to happen, you know, you have dedicated staff, and they are there. You cannot just keep, you know, you cannot have a completely volunteer team to do it, if it is critical. But then there are other areas where volunteers can be engaged, and where, if they don't come for whatever reason, if they don't show up, okay, impact is negligible. In example, if you're for ushering, yeah, you know, we have a lot of volunteers ushering. Now, if one or two of them don't show up on a Sunday for whatever reason, it's okay, you know, people still find their seats and be seated, you know, it's, it's not that impactful, or in greeting people or things like that. So, I mean, we need to be clear in our minds, what are those areas where it's a critical you need to have dedicated staff, what are those areas where you can have volunteers involved, and so on. And, you know, then you establish expectations, you know, and, and then you create hybrid teams. For example, let me just give some examples. You know, in the early days, when we started out, for doing graphic design, and our church website, so I'm going way back in time, I'm going to 2001, 2002, three, those early years. We tried, you know, I initially that I'm, you know, in 2004, I think is when, you know, our website came up and something like that, you know, around that time, and we really started using leveraging the internet. But in those early years, I tried, okay, you know, let's have some people just volunteer and just do some things for us. And I realized that they were all good people, they really wanted to help. But they didn't have the kind of time that, you know, doing the website and maintaining and keeping up updated on a weekly basis, things like that. They didn't have that kind of a time, because they would have to travel, they would have to do this and that. And graphics work, in fact, our APC church logo was done by, you know, volunteer, you know, so I still thank him, you know, whenever I read to him. But there was one young, young person who was, you know, good in all this and he designed our church logo for us, which we are using here today, 20 years later. So, you know, he was helping. But at some point, we needed, you know, even for the graphics, we needed dedicated people. Yeah, we even tried using a consultant part time hourly. It worked for a while. Okay, yeah, they could do a certain number of graphics. But then when our need for graphics increased on a weekly basis, because events started happening, and we need to do the announcements, that no longer was that that way of working was no longer viable. Volunteers definitely couldn't help. Having consultants couldn't help. We needed dedicated staff, you know, so so that that's one area where, you know, in our IT work, in our graphics work, we had to move from volunteers to consultants to full time staff. We had to make that change quite quickly in the earlier days, because it just wasn't a we were, you know, it just wasn't we couldn't get the work done purely by volunteers. But they did contribute, like I said, the church logo, which we're still using was done by one of them. So that's one area. Then of course, you know, there are certain other areas that you'd need full time stuff like accounting. You know, maybe initially, somebody can volunteer a little bit to do the accounting. But then once the amount of work increases, you just need a dedicated accountant to just keep track of all of these things. So, you know, you need to make that decision, where can you engage volunteers? Where can you, you know, where you really need to have people with more time who will be able to work? Now, of course, if you find somebody who can dedicate, you know, give you 40 hours as a volunteer, that's great. But that's very, very rare to find because people need, in many cases, some sort of an income to take care of their needs. Let me pause here. And now, let me just see if there are any questions. Everyone's okay so far. Any questions? Okay, let's move forward. So when we are talking about volunteers, you know, there are many teams where volunteers can be involved, you know. So when we have a some, you know, a typical Sunday service at Central, that have all these areas where volunteers can be involved. And of course, we have full time dedicated staff also involved. So for example, in, let's say like I said, in, in our live streaming, and for sound, we do have full time staff, who are there, and then the others all, you know, serving as volunteers in worship, children's church and ministry of the word, we have full time staff. And we have people volunteers serving alongside. We have in doing the announcements, of course, we do it through video, but the videos are done by our staff, because you know, somebody has to be committed to doing it every week. But in all the other areas, we have volunteers doing it. Similarly, in our ministry teams and teams that are involved in various ministries, you know, we can find a lot of volunteers who are serving. These areas of ministry have full time staff. But alongside the full time staff, there are lots of volunteers. These are, yeah, this is being done by a volunteer. This is being overseen by a staff, volunteers are involved. This also has a staff, volunteers are involved. Member cares being done by a staff, but we have all into teams. So here, you know, in most of these areas, there's a mix, real mix of a staff who's involved, who's responsible, but then a lot of volunteers are also serving in all of these areas. Right. So I just put this out list out here to see that, you know, there's really lots of opportunities for volunteers to serve. And they just have to commit to doing certain things every week or each month. So we go back to what we had shared in the beginning that, you know, here's a simple easy model where we can have pastors and ministry leaders along with church staff, along with volunteers, arrange themselves in multiple teams. So each one of these are a ministry team, a ministry area. And so when it's a team, they can come together to do many, many, many things. Right. So you just create a ministry area, volunteers come together, staff and pastors come together, work in that area. And, you know, some of them can be involved in multiple areas. And so if you just look at, and you can start, you can start an area, you can close an area anytime you want. If you're able to, you know, draw from the pool of pastors, volunteers and church staff, and we can all work together. Okay. So now let's get into the details. So the first thing is, you know, we call it, you know, we could call it volunteer recruitment or volunteer involvement. You know, how do you go about enlisting the involvement of volunteers? And, you know, of course, you need to put right people in the right place that goes for any organization. Right. So that that whole process has to be very clean, clear and smooth. Right. So what must we do? Like we've already stressed it that we don't need to recognize them. We need to provide the opportunities and, and we need to enlist them. But let's deal with a negative thought here. The negative thought is, why would a local church or Christian ministry hesitate to enlist volunteers? Why would they hesitate? Well, some of the thoughts on that is sometimes they may be, they may feel threatened. Because, you know, when you talk about volunteers, you're talking about professionals who may have really good skills and competencies and they could feel threatened. I'm talking about the full-time staff or the pastors could feel threatened. Sometimes they may be even looked down upon, say, oh, they're not as spiritual, you know, as they don't pray as much or whatever. You know, that's actually wrong God. And, or sometimes they may feel that volunteers may just drive the church into the wrong direction from where we want to go. Now these are, you know, are real. People feel it, but we can overcome these things and, you know, recognize that, look, if he enlists the right kind of volunteers, we can, the church can actually benefit from the skills and competencies they bring. We don't have to feel threatened. And definitely, you know, volunteers are spiritual. They, you can have volunteers who are very prayerful, who are spiritually mature. And they also can also find volunteers who are aligned to the direction of the organization. And of course, the process of enlisting volunteers can actually serve to address these things. You know, that as volunteers engage, we can actually help to make them stronger spiritually. And as volunteers engage, we can help them understand the vision direction of the church correctly. So that will strengthen the overall dynamic and the pull of the church in the right direction. So if we address them correctly, these matters can be taken care of. Okay. Everyone with me so far? Any questions? Okay. So Abraham, Abraham has a question. How do you handle inconsistent volunteer leaders? All right. So we will talk about that, but I can think of two things. And others, of course, are welcome to contribute. One is to clarify what is required from that volunteer leader for the role that they have been given. Right? So the volunteer leader knows to know very clearly, this is what is being expected from you. You know, you're in charge of this ministry. This is what, you know, you are expected to do as a leader for this ministry. Right? So it should be clarified. And what we like to do is we like to put it down in writing, especially for important areas. Then secondly is to give feedback. Right? So obviously when somebody starts, nobody's going to start out perfect. They still have to, they kind of have to learn how to do the ministry. And so through that learning curve, you are giving feedback and saying, hey, you can do this. You can do that. Here are things to look at. Look at. Yeah. Some people may step in and just be able to do it because they probably have done it before. In some cases, it may be new. And if they are new, then you need to kind of help them grow into that role of leadership by giving feedback and showing them how they can improve. And so hopefully if you do these two things, they can, you know, grow into a place where they're doing things well and consistently. After that, if they still are not consistent, then you have to, you know, think about changing leadership in that role. And of course, you do that nicely. You just talk to them and say that, you know, that, you know, because of these reasons, we need to make this change. Now, of course, the reactions of people can be different. Some people will understand and take it positively. Some people will get hurt, get offended. They might even leave the church. All those things are there when you bring correction, when you make these role changes and all that. But, you know, we have to do it do the right thing for the good of the organization. Anybody else wants to add to Abraham's question, how do you handle inconsistent volunteer leaders? Okay, Lili, you raise your hand, your question please. Good morning, sir. Good morning everyone. Good morning. I just want to ask, what is what's the philosophy behind such workers have to be the members of the church? I just want to understand the philosophy behind that, that they have to be the members of the church. So, and I can just share with you my observations of my learning over the years, Lili. What I felt is that, you see, there are certain areas of work where in a church, local church, where somebody can do the work without necessarily being a member of the church. Example, you know, doing some routine work, like maybe whatever, maybe accounting or some other administrative work. There are those areas. But what I have found is in almost all areas of work, it is always good to have people who are members of the church. The reason is, one, they will be aligned to the overall direction of the church, vision and direction. Second is, you know, almost everything we do is intertwined, interconnected. So, in order to do one piece of work, they also need to know, hey, how this thing connects to all the other areas of what is happening in the church. So, they need to kind of be able to have a big picture view, while of course they're doing a particular part of the work, which can only happen if they're actually part of the congregation, because so many things are happening in the local church, which are all interrelated. You know, for example, even in graphic design, you know, somebody's designing graphic for the church, you know, we say, okay, do a graphic for the youth camp. They need to understand what is the, what are the kind of youth who are coming to the church? You know, what would really connect to this demographic, etc. In order to design that graphic, it's not just, okay, I create a graphic for youth camp. Hey, but what are the kind of youth who are coming to this particular local church? You know, where are they in their spiritual journey, so that the graphic I create can connect to that? That is something, you know, so we use the word ethos, which is the intangible, indescribable, some, you know, culture of that community. So, the graphic, even in the graphic design, that person needs to be able to relate to the ethos of that community. So, so much, so much, you know, for example, even in the accounting work, of course, accountant is doing numbers, they come and do it, but the accountant should know that, you know, have an overall picture of the budget, overall what's happening, or, you know, this is where the church is going, so on, so forth, so that then they can manage things properly. So, personally, from my own observation, I strongly feel that every person working in the church, as far as possible, should be a part of that church. There will be, yes, there will be areas where, you know, you can give it out where it doesn't matter. Example, for us, when we're doing translation work, our books are being translated by people, most of it is being done by people outside the church, that's fine, they're just translating the books, or when they are dubbing the TV programs into other languages, yeah, it's done by people outside, you know, those things don't matter, but a lot of it, you know, so that's kind of what I feel, it's just my, my thought on it, yeah, is that okay? Yeah, okay, Asha's question, just curious, it's okay to be curious, can it be possible, if you want to work at APC, can you work half at APC, half work somewhere else, or should we stick to one? For example, working at preschools, which is half a day and half a day at APC, yeah, for us at APC, we, there are certain places where people do that, that means they're not working full time at APC, so they are like consultants, that means they're paid only for the hours of work that they work at APC, and then they're also working at other places, that's fine, so we do have that option, so we have staff, we have consultants, then we are volunteers, consultants are just people who work based on the hours, which means they are free to do anything else with their time, yeah, so that's, that's, that's possible, okay, all right, any other questions? Okay, so let's go forward as we talk about engaging volunteers, now how do we enlist volunteers? Of course, one is to make volunteer opportunities known, right, so we need to let people know that there are these volunteer opportunities where people can participate, now again, this is something, just by observation is, you know, even if we announce that there is, there are volunteer opportunities, people are kind of hesitant or reluctant to kind of take out, there are a few people like really excited, oh I want to volunteer, you know, from day one they're looking for opportunities to serve, but I think that's, those are exceptions, the majority are people who come quietly, they are, they are gifted and you know, blessed by God, but they come quietly and sit, you know, and they're actually waiting to be asked, so what seems to work very well is when people ask them personally, hey would you like to get involved, would you like to do this, would you like to do, can you help, you know, so even though we do announcements or it's on our website and all of that, people don't necessarily come, you know, enlist that way, the most effective way is when somebody goes and asks them, hey can you, would you like to serve here, would you like to do that, of course, from our part, you know, we make sure that we announce every now and then and opportunities available, the website is always there, that means they can always go to the website, there's a page that says connect, that they can go sign up, we also do special volunteer drives on certain Sundays, you know, we will intentionally have all this thing available, this information available so people can sign up as volunteers, then other things like we do, it's called, we call it a VIP banquet, it's basically people who've been visiting church for the last three months, we invite them to the special banquet where then we tell them about all these volunteer opportunities, they also hear testimonies of others who have volunteered and they, it kind of hacks as a huge motivator, so example in so many areas and just recent examples would be like when some, when two people go out on a mission trip, they come back, we share a little video testimony of their experience, it kind of encourages others, hey wow, even I can go and you know, be a part of it, so these are just some ways by which, you know, we can make opportunities known to people and encourage them to be a part of, you know, volunteers who are serving in the local church and they made the other ways, you know, that work in other contexts and we're sharing some of the things we do, now of course, then, you know, once they know the opportunities they need to sign up and they need to, you know, get it, get in, get inducted into the whole thing, so for us it's a very simple process, we have a simple online form, maybe I'll show that, show it to you, so they can just go in and click, click, click and say I'd like to serve in these areas, here's my email ID and my mobile number, submit, done, they sign up for it, that email goes to our service coordinator and they get in touch with them, it's okay, you know, this is what you need to do, this is the time you need to come to, come at, etc, so and we try to do that as early as possible, meaning if they sign up on a Sunday, you know, Monday they should get a call and say, hey welcome, thank you so much for signing up, here's how you can get started, you know, if you don't respond quickly, they may think that we are not interested in them or something, right, so keep the process simple, enlist them immediately as fast as possible, now of course in some cases there has to be some audition or review or training that's needed, so this especially works for, is required in the case of worship team or in the case of the media, the sound, the cameras, so those things you know, of course you need to train people before you can, you know, get them doing work, doing volunteering, so we let them okay, you know, there's an audition that's going to happen for worship or for sound or for camera or for live stream or for media, you know, we will train you over the next couple of Sundays, come and see how this is going and then once you're ready, you can actually start doing it, so certain areas, you know, there is all this, some serious training involved, in other cases it's easy to start, you know, like an usher, being an usher or being, you know, doing some other things, it's easy, okay? All right, so let's pause here and we'll go for a break and we will continue this. I hope this is kind of useful, I know for some of you it might be a little boring saying like, what is this, but you know, the reality is this is where a lot of the work happens, this is where a lot of the ministry gets done and this is where a lot of community happens, you know, when people get connected to a volunteer team, that's where they begin to actually enjoy community that, you know, being the sense of belonging and just relating to people, working with people, all in the context of the local church or the Christian ministry. So while it may seem like, okay this is a lot of dry stuff, but this is where when, you know, volunteers are involved, this is where real community life happens in a local church. So volunteers and volunteer teams, caring for them, is a very important part of local church or any Christian ministry. Okay, let's go for a break. We'll come back and we'll try to finish up the rest of this lesson. Thank you.