 to Susan Barker. Go ahead, Susan. Hi, everyone. I want to welcome you here. I'm sorry again about last week. But the recording was fine, so I hope you all have heard it. So today's May Day. And May Day is also used as a day to encourage people to remember to do emergency preparedness in their institutions. So I'm going to do that, too. So the last two webinars in this series are May 8, next week, and June 5. So we'll see you for those. And again, if you need to reset your password, you can contact info at culturalheritage.org. If you have any other questions, contact me at c-2-c-c at culturalheritage.org. And if you have a question about course content or something, put it on the discussion. That'll get to people faster than sending something to me. And if you want to keep informed about what's going on with Connecting to Collections Care, you can join the new discussion list. And this is the link for instructions on how to do that. And we're on Facebook. We're on Twitter. And actually concurrently now with us, there are some Facebook Live things going on for May Day. And they'll be one in a couple of hours. So if you miss it, verse two, you can see the last one. And next week, we have a free webinar on caring for herbaria. And that should be really interesting. So if you'd like, you can join us there. And now I'm going to turn this over to Rachel Aronstein. It turns out Simon won't be here today, but you're in good hands with hers. So remember, if you have any questions, put them in the chat box. And I will make sure they get answered at the end. OK, I'll set Rebecca. Hi. Thank you, Susan. I know that Simon is sorry that he couldn't be with us today, but we will forge ahead. And we have some slides from him that I'll introduce today's program. And so let's jump into webinar four. Again, I'm Rachel Aronstein, and I'm going to be presenting today along with Rebecca Newbury. And you'll also be hearing from me next week for the fifth webinar in the series. So the objective for this course, as you see here, is that by the end of the all six webinars, you'll be able to develop a basic reorg plan to improve collections access and care in one storage room. And today is the fourth in our series of six. And what we're hoping to focus on today is giving you examples and some resources where you can find other information that will help you develop custom storage solutions for different types of objects. We're also going to cover basic principles for selecting materials that are safe for long-term storage of collections, even if they are not conservation grade material or archival quality. So we'll focus on those that we'll also talk about some other ways that you can use these materials or find replacements. So just a reminder that the reorg method, which is at the core of this course, is available online on Ikram's website. It's available in four languages, English, French, Spanish and Portuguese, and others are in the works. The reorg method was developed by Ikram with the support of UNESCO and was adapted for distance learning thanks to a collaboration with the Canadian Conservation Institute. I highly recommend taking a look at this additional material beyond the webinar courses. An additional announcement for today is that the first one is that the registrations are now open for the Reorg India International Workshop. The deadline for applying is May 15. This course is for you if you have already implemented a storage reorganization and now want to become a Reorg coach. That means that you'd be able to lead a team within a museum that's organizing their storage to help other institutions. So if this is work that you're interested in doing outside of your institution or if you're a conservator in private practice, and that you've already done a project like this, this is a way to take your ability to organize and instruct to the next level. So it's being promoted as a Reorg leadership course or train the trainers. So details for this are available on the Ikram website on the link that you see here. Another reminder for those of you listening today, if you are attending the American Institute for Conservation's 47th annual meeting, which will be in Uncasil, Connecticut at the Mohegan Sun Resort, which will be in a couple of weeks, we are organizing an onsite one-day Reorg project, which will be held at the New London Maritime Museum on May 13. It's a full-day event from 9 to 5. If you're interested in joining myself and Simon and Lisa, who will be also one of the instructors and you can make it to New London, all you have to do is send a CV and an email indicating interest to Ruth Seiler in the AIC office, and her email is listed here at the bottom of the slide. So we have been sort of going through the process what all of you who have been doing this, Simon, are doing at home. We have been doing with Susan, who is the director of the Maritime Museum, and you're going to hear more about how we've the sort of many projects and plans that we have come up with for her project in next week's program. So now I just want to do a quick recap of last week's session by Jose Luis and Marjo. We said that there are various lenses through which you can examine your storage to develop your Reorg project. The first webinar is focused on optimizing space, focusing on dimension and weight. But then last week, the presenters introduced two other lenses, relative value and collection vulnerability. Ze showed us one way to start building your own relative value categories from treasures to things of average value and things that are not relevant or non-collection. And then Marjo introduced an example of how you can use your relative value categories and map them, starting with your treasures. So why would we want to do this? Well, it can be useful for emergency response purposes to know where your high value items are. It can also lead to discussions with curators and collection managers about how security could be improved for these items. Or on how we might improve the visitor experience if we intend to organize open storage tours for the public by rearranging some of the treasures. And then Ze reminded us, again, of the 10 agents of deterioration. These are things that act upon our collections. So past pollutants, light and UV, incorrect temperature, incorrect relative humidity, disassociation, physical forces, criminals, fire, and water. And the Canadian Conservation Institute has a really great explanation of these issues and how they impact collections on their website, available both in English and in French. So after Ze reminded us of those 10 agents, we were also introduced to the concept of vulnerability. And to use this diagram to illustrate how in our reorg project we should be focusing on improving storage conditions for objects that are vulnerable to a certain type of damage and that are exposed to the agent that causes that damage. Although textiles dyed with certain colorants may be extremely vulnerable to light and UV, if they're currently stored in boxes, they're not exposed to light or UV, so they're not affected. So we shouldn't worry about that too much. So remember, in your reorg project, you don't want to aggravate any risks by increasing the exposure to vulnerable items. If you can't, you want to reduce that exposure. And then in practice, Marja showed us how you can use a floor plan with your building fixtures to map the path taken by the agents of deterioration in your space. This is the exposure part. So now if you have collections that are particularly vulnerable to those agents in those locations, you can start to think about how you might avoid or block that exposure. So mapping your windows, doors, vents, pipes will all affect how you might choose to reorganize your space. And so now I'd like to pass the baton over to Rebecca Newberry and ask her to introduce herself and take us on. Thanks, Rachel. So hi, I'm Rebecca Newberry. I go by Rebecca, but sometimes people call me Rachel, which happens to Rachel as well, who else is called Rebecca. It's a common biblical name mix up, so we answer to either. I'm an objects conservator. I specialize in preventive conservation, and I work with the Natural Science and Cultural Collection. At the Science Museum of Minnesota, we've been employing creative storage solutions for many years, drawing inspiration from sources like Stash, which we'll talk about later. And I worked on our collection's move from 1998 to 1999, which you would think of the ultimate reorg project, but you can't always think of everything during a move, and we've had to retrofit and reimagine space use and storage solutions several times since then. And I like to think of object storage as a constantly evolving and improving project. So you're never finished, but that means you get to keep up dreaming better solutions for storage. So the Institute for Museum and Library Services, IMLS, has just released the results of the 2014 Heritage Health Information Survey. And they have shown that 32% of responding institutions to the survey reported damage or loss to their collections in the preceding two years before the survey. And of this number, the damage from improper storage was the second highest cause of damage at 45%. And this brings us to our first poll. Mike can bring that up. Have you ever had something damaged due to improper storage? The second highest or the third highest cause of damage in the survey was due to improper handling. And so crowded or improper storage can also raise the risk of damage from handling. In reorg, we look to a standard of only having to move fewer than three objects to get to something. And that's the kind of thing that increases risk to handling if you have to move a lot of stuff. So yeah, it looks like it's pretty solid. Almost everyone has had something damaged in storage. Rebecca, I'm not sure if everybody else has seen the same thing, but there was something cut off on the previous slide. Yeah, that slide is cut off. Yeah, can you just confirm that it is 32% of the two percent of collecting information? It's not two percent. They'd say, we'd love to get it to two percent. Yeah, so that's the goal for the next Heritage Health Information Survey. Indeed. All right, hopefully it hasn't cut off other slides. OK, so by now in this course, we've done a lot of thinking about the protective layers around our collections. We start with our region, our site, our building. And then with the reorg project, we're looking at our storage rooms, our storage equipment. We've also considered the collections value and assessing risk to collections. So now in this webinar, we're going to focus on the smallest box that our objects come in. That's the storage housing. We're going to bring up our second poll question, which would be, what types of objects are your collections predominantly? Help us guide our discussion on things that will help answer your questions. So when developing your creative storage solutions, you really have to start from the object itself. And you've already looked at all of your different objects. You want to see what's the reorg object category that your objects fall into. But you also want to consider what the objects are made from, what material they're made from, because different types of materials, say ceramics versus textiles versus metals, they have different needs in storage. And where you're storing something matters too. You need to understand the doors, the windows, the lights, leaky ceilings. You need to make sure that the objects are going to fit back into the space that you have with the mounts that you give them. And you also want to make sure that your solutions are affordable, that they fit within your budget. You don't want to choose a storage method that involves supplies you can't afford or you can't source. Some supplies could be available from commercial retailers at a lower cost. Then you can get them in archival vendors. But you want to be careful about the quality of your materials. You could end up with some inferior foam or inferior plastics that are going to break down and react to your objects. Something could be branded as a polyethylene foam, but it could have a lot of additives in it that might make it break down over time. It looks like 3D objects are the majority of people's storage, so that's where I'm at too. Perfect. So the last thing you want to think about is can you standardize or simplify your storage solutions? So looking at dividing your tasks, if you can make a streamlined or a conveyor belt almost method of storing so that volunteers and staff could do parts of the storage mounts. But really the best storage solutions are ones that work for you. So they're ones that are safe for the objects that are practical for you. And I'll also remember that your storage improvements are an ongoing project. So considering the values and the risks of your collection, you want to use your resources wisely and improve storage for as much of your collection as possible rather than focusing the majority of them on perfect solutions for a limited number of objects. So let's consider one object. Think about your unique situation. Let's look at one object and consider a few solutions for storage for that. So we have here a glazed ceramic bowl. It's a number six in the Reorg object category list. That's a light, self-supporting object that can be carried by one person with two hands weighing between half a kilo and 10 kilograms or one to 20 pounds. What else do we know about it? It's ceramic, so we know it's an inorganic thing. We also know that it's got a round bottom, so it doesn't sit very nicely. It's going to need something to keep it from wobbling around in storage. The rim looks like it's in good shape. And it's a fairly common type of object. I mean, I know I have more objects like this. I bet you have more objects like this. So standardizing a storage technique would be a great idea. There's something like this bowl, something that you could streamline in storage. So here's some solutions. We could think about just flipping it over and putting it on a stationary shelf, sticking it on its rim. It's going to be fine. It won't move. It's space-efficient, but you do face handling risks. So if you have to pick it up frequently, that means that you're flipping it over all the time. It's harder to handle something that's upside down. You also can't see the design on the interior. So if you want to see that interior of the bowl easier and you want to be able to pick it up more easily, you can just make a quick twist of acid-free tissue paper into a ring. It's economical, but making that ring takes a little more skill than you may think at first. And it can easily be crushed or deformed. And it also doesn't protect the rim of the object. You could easily bump into things adjacent to it. And if you have higher uncontrolled relative humidity in your storage, that paper can attract moisture and mold could grow on it. So what are some other options? This one on the left is just a simple polyethylene backer rod ring. So backer rod's inexpensive. You can get it from construction supply or hardware stores. It's inexpensive, but it takes a little training to use well. You can either use hot glue to attach the ends or you can tie the ring together. The rings provide both padding and support, which is nice. If you've got a lot of stuff that's the same size, you might be able to mass produce rings at the same size. And ring mounts are ideal on either fixed stationary shelves or on compacted shelves that move. But you've got to be careful not to bump the rim into adjacent objects still. If you mount that ring to a board, then you can protect the rim because the board is slightly larger than the object. So if you stick it in storage, the board is going to bump into the board of the object next to it rather than the rims against each other. And the cavity mount on the right is going to provide the most support. But it's also going to take the most materials, the most skill, the most preparation time, and the most space in storage. But it could be the best option for that bowl if it's frequently handled or if you're transporting it quite a bit because it is more supportive. And there's other options for storing round bottom ceramics. You can put foam wedges onto a board. You can make foam cradles. There's a bunch of different things. Now we're going to bring Rachel back in to talk about some online resources we hope you'll find helpful. Rachel, are you there? Sorry, thank you. I muted myself. I was talking away. So apologies. So I just wanted to mention a little bit about my background. I'm an object conservator by training in private practice in the New York area. And a lot of my clients are small to mid-sized museums. And so I see a lot of spaces that could benefit from the real work method. I'm also an AICD editor. And one of the things that I oversee as one of our professional platforms is a website called Stash. As my colleague Lisa Goldberg, who you'll hear from in the sixth webinar, and I were developing Stash, the Reorg website was launched. And we were despondent for a few minutes while we thought we'd just worked for a couple of years to develop a website that was sort of gizumped in a matter of months by Reorg. And when we looked at the Reorg site, we were really thrilled because we realized that the two sites are complementary. And that Reorg really deals with the big picture of storage and Stash, which I'll come to in a second, focuses down at the object level. But in conjunction with the Reorg site, Reorg also has this Tumblr page. And so Tumblr is sort of like a mini blog site. And what you're seeing here on the screen are actually two screenshots. So but what's really nice about the Tumblr page is that you can sort of scroll down and see lots of different things that people have done and posted to the site. So it's highly visual. And so you can sort of look at some of these before and after. You can sort of see details of projects or things sort of in the works and really get a sense of how much progress can be made with reasonably accessible materials. And then what you see on the right of the screen with the red print and the big red arrow is some of those solutions have been also posted to the Stash C website. And so if you click on the link, it will take you to Stash. So this site has taken some of you may be familiar with a book that was published in the early 90s by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections. And that book focused on sort of practical tools and solutions for storage. After being reprinted a couple of times, it needed a bit of a refresher. And so the decision was to turn it into an online resource, which is Stash. So the thing that we hope people will find useful on Stash is you can search for things using the search tool. But if you click on the Solutions tab, it's going to take you to the next page where you have sort of a whole left-hand menu. So in this case, we're not focusing on the kind of material you have, but we're focusing on the type of solution. So we move just like the diagram that Rebecca just showed you a short while ago with sort of the room to cabinet to shelving down to the object level to containers. There's a lot of different objects here. Solutions here. And we hope that by sort of browsing through them, you'll be able to sort of see like, oh, well, there's lots of different styles of boxes. Here's one that matches sort of either a skill level or materials. And so within any entry, you can sort of see what the purpose of it or tips on sort of if you want to create a lid, how much room do you need to leave, things like that that are designed to help you. There's creative ideas that were all developed by collection managers, registrars, conservators, mount makers. And so if you don't see something on the website that you're interested in, we'd love to hear from you. And if you see something on the website that is sort of similar to something that you've done, but you think you've made an improvement, we'd love to have that as well. The goal is to sort of show all sorts of different permutations and variations. On these ideas, there's also a common feature on each of the solution pages. We also occasionally, well, at least the last five years at the AIC annual meeting. And this will be the second year at the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections annual meeting where we've had what we call the stash flash sessions where people give like five minute storage tips. We're always looking to spread the word on that. And so if you're a member of another society and think that this would be a good way to sort of spread the word about this resource and storage, we'd love to hear from you and help you organize a stash flash session for your meeting. In addition, when we get into the presentation later, we'll be talking more specifically about material supplies. And all of the materials that are mentioned in the stash articles are listed in the resources section of the site in this list. And we didn't, in our handout for today's presentation, give a list of suppliers. Many of them will probably be familiar to you. And they do change. And as Rebecca said, sometimes you can find other similar materials at other vendors. They may or may not be the same exact material and the same exact quality. But we encourage you to check out some of these resources where revenders are listed so that that is kept up to date. So Rebecca, back to you. All right. So reorg classifies objects into 12 categories. And these are different than how stash classifies objects. So for your convenience, we put together a spreadsheet that correlates the reorg object categories with the stash solution categories. So it's in the resources for this session. And there's one tab that organizes everything by the stash solution category. And then there's the second tab, organizes everything by the reorg object category. And then each solution is linked. So you should be able to just click on the name of the solution. And it'll link you to the article. So just to let you know that many of the images in here either came from the reorg tumbler or also from my work at the Science Museum. And we have used stash in the predecessor, the Spinach Storage Handbook. It's an inspiration for many years to build our storage mounts. And so the nice thing about storage mounts is that if you can prototype them out and you can train people to do it, then you can really share the workload with volunteers and other staff and present better storage for your collections. First object category, number one, are extra heavy or voluminous objects difficult to manipulate. These are often outliers in your collection. So they generally require really customized housings. So placing these objects on pallets or carts is a great option. Wheels make it easy to move the object around. Always buy the best wheels you could afford. The cart on the left for the sculpture, it doesn't take up a ton of extra floor space. And it makes the object easy to move so they can access the storage behind it so they can move it around if they need to. If you were going to keep this in a fixed location and you were going to store it for a long time, you might consider blocking the wheels up off the floor so that the cart isn't resting on the wheels because they can deform over several years of storage of not being moved. Pallets, like the ones shown in the picture of the right, these are another great option. These are just commercially available wood pallets. And we decked them with plywood. And then we screwed down the shoulder mounts of all these taxidermy mounts through the backing boards of the taxidermy. And then we tinted them with polyethylene sheeting over just wood framing. They're really handy. You can see through them. You can move them with a pallet jack or you can move them with a forklift. So with a pallet, something like that, that doesn't have wheels on it. You have to make sure you have the equipment to move it. And you have to make sure you have room to move that equipment. So in this warehouse space, we have to have enough room to bring a forklift and to pull this stuff down. Our number two category, extra long objects, not self-supporting. They're also ideal candidates for carts. They can also work well on cantilevered shelving if that's within your budget. So cantilevered shelving is only supported from the underside. So it gives you long interrupted surfaces. This is a cart made from lumber and from polyethylene foam to support a canoe. And then the extra pieces of lumber on the edges make it easy to move there like handles. And they can come off when it's in storage, so they're not in the way. Number three objects, very heavy objects, self-supporting requiring two people to manipulate over 30 kilograms or 70 pounds. These are also ideal candidates for pallets or wheeled dollies or carts. Also, heavy industrial shelving is a great investment for stuff like this if you have a large collection. These are fossils that are stored in plaster clam shells. So these are custom made, contoured plaster mounts that are embedded with fiberglass to give them some support and strength. So the fossils are held within this and you can flip them upside down so you can look at the fossil from both sides easily and bolted together. These are stored on plastic, commercially available plastic pallets on the heavy industrial shelving. You could even just store these directly on the shelving as well. Sometimes you can place heavy objects on smooth boards that you can be, which can be more easily pulled off of shelves and you can build the small wheeled dollies or carts for these types of objects if you're going to store them on the floor. Number four objects, you can store these attached to fixed racks with ties or hooks and you can also modify shelving units to hold long objects upright between padded dividers. Or in this case, for this fragile New Guinea mask, we made custom boxes for these large objects. The box is made from a thick corrugated polypropylene plastic and we fasten the corners with nuts and bolts and washers and then the lids are just made of regular weight corrugated plastic and the corners are sewn. We also label the outside of these boxes really well and then put photographs of the object on the outside and that really improves access. Number four objects are also really great to coordinate a storage plan with commercially available shelf uprights. So we've got a bunch of different systems where we use shelf uprights. If you look on this whole system, we took shelf supports and we just cut the fronts of them off. So they're only eight inches wide. This is in a place in storage where there's eight inches between compacted cabinets and the wall. So we built, we have our shelf supports that attach the shelf uprights. They're eight inches wide. We put corrugated plastic shelf on top of them with a little backer rod in the open channel and that protects the objects from the opening of the cabinet doors so nothing sticks out more than eight inches so when the doors open they bump into the shelf and not into the objects. And then we made either custom padded boards. This is a corrugated plastic board with little tabs that hook into the shelf uprights and then we tie that with cotton tying tape. And then we also made a custom jig just out of nails on a board and bent wire around it to make these hooks and the hooks kind of snap into the shelf uprights and then we padded them with a backer rod. And then at the bottom we make little backer rod supports to capture the bottoms of these long objects so they don't fall forward. You can accomplish the same thing a little more simply if you don't have as many objects. This is from the Reark Tumblr and these are just nails. They're regular commercially available nails with polyethylene foam wrapped around them and they're supporting these tools on the wall. Number five objects are heavy objects. Self-supporting can be carried by one person using equipment. 10 to 30 kilograms or 20 to 70 pounds. So this is another place where pallets are a great option. You can also put things directly on shelves and shelving units or have trays that can slide out. This pallet, for example, for this large iron kettle is made with feet so you can get your hands underneath it or that you can get the equipment underneath it. We designed this specifically for one of our foot-operated hydraulic lifts. So you can put the lift up to it and you can pull it off by yourself or two people can just lift it off the shelf without any equipment. And we chose plywood for this piece because it's really sturdy. It's inexpensive. And the piece is stored on an open shelf in an area with a lot of ventilation so we don't have to worry about acid buildup from the wood. And then we have a barrier between the object and the piece so that we don't have acid migration to the metal object. You could also make trays or small sliding pallets from archival materials like corrugated plastic or acid-free cardboard. You just want to make sure that what you're building is strong enough to support the object so you don't want it to bend or anything when you pick the object up with it. You could consider using plastic boards like those made from expanded PVC. That's the name brand is Cintra as an option as well, but you don't want to use those sensitive materials. You want to make sure you're using those in a well-ventilated area. Number six objects have the most solutions on stash. So if you've got number six objects, which it looks like many of you do, you'll find tons of solutions. Stable objects stored in fixed furniture may not even need a mount. You can just put them on a shelf or put them in a drawer. But unstable objects or objects stored on compactors are going to need more support. Cradles, rings, cavities are really good solutions for these kinds of objects. There are two options for storing figurines. You can store them on a cradle, on a board, or on the bottom with this little kachina. This is a two-part sliding mount, so the object sits on one side of the mount and then it slides into the other side of the mount then secures the object standing. More options for number six objects. Things like these stone tools, they don't really need any mounts. This is on a custom shelving unit. We just made from commercially available supplies to fit this little awkward space between a building column and a cabinet. But when we built the shelf, we didn't know how heavy we were going to fill it, so we can't add more shelves to this without compromising the integrity of the shelf. If we'd known how many stone tools our archeologists wanted to put on it, we would have built it a little sturdier in the first place. So he's a little frustrated with that, he'll find other places for his tools. The other things that you can do with number six objects is you can isolate them with your storage in terms of hazardous materials like the taxidermy eagle on the bottom right that's arsenic positive mount, or the other one on the top right is a Truscan bronze pitcher that we have stored in a dry container. So there's silica gel in there, but by containing these number six objects into isolated microclimate storage, they can then be stored with other objects that aren't affected. Number seven objects, objects that can be held in one hand, you'll also find tons of solutions for on a stash and on the reorg tumbler. You can use commercially available archival trays, you can modify those trays, you can make your own trays, they're a great way to store things. You can even store small robust objects in Ziploc bags. And just to sort of protect them, you can add a piece of heavy paper and mat board in the bag for support, as you can see in the lower right. This is a great way to reuse scrap as well so that you're using all the little bits of your archival material. You can also adapt hanging files in file cabinets to store either slide or photo sleeves filled with small flat objects like coins. Number eight objects, those are 3D textiles, that would be things like costumes, clothing, skins and puppets. These can be hung from padded hangers or rods so you can adapt a commercially available hanger as you can see on the top images by padding them with polyester batting and then covering that batting with cotton stockinette or cotton muslin. And that'll support many kinds of garments and you can also adapt those hangers with extra foam or things like that to support irregular garments. Number eight objects can also be hung from a padded rods as you can see with these church vestments or that are in the top right picture. And then some fragile number eight objects like these bandolier bags that are in the bottom right corner should be stored flat with padding in the folds and the one in front, the red with the red field on it. That's a really fragile piece that is also accessed very frequently so we made a rigid tray that it sits on so it can be removed from the drawer without any disturbance to the piece. You can also make covers for your hanging things. You can make individual covers out of cotton or Tyvek and attaching a photograph of the garment or the textile or the puppet to the outside helps identify the piece, helps with the excess. And then you can also cover whole units with Tyvek or muslin or polyester. Our number nine objects are objects that should be stored flat. So these would be fragile textiles, unframed artwork, photographs, metal plates, works on paper, things like that. The top left image is a modified system we put into some existing cantilevered shelving. So we built shelves from, this is styrofoam insulation that we board holes in and then put metal electrical conduit pipes through it and then the shelves or the shelves themselves are just rigid pieces of polycarbonate plastic and then the woven mats are the objects that fit within it. This is a way to maximize storage space in existing shelving that you can adjust. You can also adjust shelving and commercially available shelving units, like these wire units, you can just add more shelves. You might also wanna consider looking for flat files, they're really handy and sometimes you can get them used through resellers or like universities or plus, that kind of stuff. And then small flat objects can be stored in paper folders and then those paper folders can be grouped by upright boxes or things in file cabinets just to protect them and keep them contained. Number 10 are objects that can be rolled. So these would be textiles, carpets, plant, big pieces of paper, tapestries, things like that. We adapt acidic paper tubes. Archival acid-free tubes can be quite expensive and also they're buffered generally and that buffer can wear out sometimes and they then become acidic. So what we do is we just make existing cardboard tubes that we get from our lighting designer and we cover them with marble seal, which is an aluminum foil that traps the acids on the inside of the tube and they don't migrate out. And then we pad them with cotton or the polyester batting and then cover them with cotton stuck in it. And when you roll your object, you put a piece of tissue down under the object and you roll that first to pick up the object with the rolled tube and then as you keep rolling it, you can put another piece of tissue towards the end so when you wrap it entirely in tissue. When you're rolling large textiles, you wanna make sure to have lots of people on hand and lots of space so that you can get a nice, even roll for your object. And then you can cover the roll with more paper or you can cover the roll with a Mylar-Mellonex polyester film and then tie that shut with cotton tying tape. You can put a little bit of a piece of water paper underneath the tying tape if you wanna protect the object from the knot in the tying tape. And then there's a lot of different ways to store rolled objects. The bottom right image is a drawer that's custom made to store rolled textiles but there are so many options for storing rolled textiles that you'll find on Stash and you'll find on the Rear Tumblr. One way is to once again use those shelf uprights. We made custom S-hooks to store the conduit pipes and then the rolled textiles go on that. This other one on the top right is like a little hanging hook with a chain that goes up to that or the bottom right, those are bolts that go through the bottom of the shelf support and then we drilled holes in the conduit pipes to hold the rolled piece. Those are actually photopapers for a photo station but you could adapt that for storage, object storage as well. So you can make, if you have a large collection of rolled objects, you can invest in a custom sliding storage which as you can see on the left or you can build your own out of chains that hang from a ceiling and then if you only have a handful of rolled things you can hang them from hooks onto existing wall racks or fixed racks as you can see in the image on the far right. It's kind of an elegant solution with the extra padding at the foam behind the tube just to give it a little support. And you can also adapt that kind of padding between the rack and the tube for storage within a shelf or within a cabinet. If you're just storing like one rolled textile in a cabinet you can make cardboard or excuse me, foam cradles to support the ends of the roll to lift it just slightly off of the deck or off of the drawer so that the object itself isn't in contact with the space. Number 11 objects, if you have a small collection of these small 2D objects under 50 centimeters or one and a half feet you can really maximize your storage space by building customized compartments or bins. They can be built out of plywood especially if you're in a well ventilated area and you want to line like the bottoms of the bins with foam or acid free board to prevent acid migration from the plywood to the objects and also to ease in access to be able to slide the pieces in and out. Small 2D objects can also be stored on existing shelving. You can run cables or, you know, cables or rods to create that separation to put the objects in or you can look into fixed racks or wall racks. You can get expensive ones, you can get inexpensive ones and you can hang your objects from them with S-hooks. These can be really useful if you have a large collection of 2D art. And our last category is number 12, large 2D objects over 50 centimeters or one and a half feet. So obviously the hanging racks that are sliding are sort of the industry standard, but they can be really expensive. So you could once again use those wall racks or fixed racks. Or this is a solution on the right that we came up with at my institution. These types of objects are outliers in our collection. So these are casts of fossils and we took our shelf upright system and then we made a little channel out of PVC pipe cut in half that has a tiny notch at each shelf support so that it sits in there and then we put a little bit of a screw just to secure it and then we pad that channel with polyethylene foam and put the objects in. They kind of lean back against the wall. We can pad behind them and then we use cotton tying tape across the front of it just loosely so they don't fall forward. And this isn't an ideal situation for most places, but for us it works really well, which is kind of the gist of a creative storage solution. PVC pipe, even though it's made of PVC, which is generally a no-no in collections, it's a relatively solid piece. The PVC that makes up pipes is longer lasting, is not as reactive. And these are fossil casts and this is in a well ventilated area so we're not trapping a sensitive object right next to a less than perfect material. So in building collections, you want to put together your own toolbox of your favorite tools, but these are some really handy tools to have. One is an impulse sealer or heat sealer at the upper left and so that is great for making bags or for gluing together or heat sealing together, polyethylene sheeting or marble seal, that kind of stuff. Glue gun is essential. You can use that with standard glue sticks. This is a nice selection on the lower left of utility knives, scissors, cotton tying tapes, microspatulas, bone folders. These are all really useful for box making and mount making. And then on the lower right, we've got an awl, a crochet hook, and a yarn needle, which are also really helpful for tying corners together, adding handles, like looped cotton tape handles to things, tying objects down to mounts, which we do sometimes as well. So more of my favorite tools are these foam carving knives that are seen on the left. They're available from Benchmark and from University Products. There's also the big one that looks kind of like a saw is actually a foam knife. It's really great for cutting plank foam. And the cork borer set and the rotary cutter are also really handy. And then on the right, there is calipers, a safety ruler, a profile gauge, which is nice for irregularly shaped objects, a triangle just to make sure you're keeping things square and just a simple measuring tape. I noted today on the collections list that there was a long discussion of the best knives to cut plank out the foam. So if you're on that list, check it out. There are some great solutions and great suggestions of knives that everyone likes. You know, just be happy. Find the tools you like. You can look for them at hardware stores, art supply stores, fabric, craft or hobby stores, knives you can get at restaurant supply stores. Often like the knives that are used for commercial kitchens are really great sources or really great tools for working with collections storage. So just to sum up some of my tips, it's great to prototype your mounts so that you kind of know what you want to make and figure out how you can standardize it. Write your instructions down, especially if you're going to train a team to make these mounts. And the nice thing about having them written down is that if your idea is great and you want to submit it to Stash, you're already halfway through the process because you've written down how you're going to do your mounts. And don't be afraid to tweak your methods for efficiency as you start working on them. When we worked on our collections move, we were able to modify how we were making mounts, just looking at how our really creative volunteers were solving some problems on the fly, which was great. And then when working with a team, you want to really assess talent. Not everybody's good at everything. So don't assign things to people that they're not good at. If someone's really good at cutting square boards, have them cut square boards, and if someone's really good at making foam rings and have them make foam rings, they don't have to make the whole mount themselves. And obviously, don't forget about first aid. Mountmaking is kind of dangerous. We use hot glue. We use sharp knives. Make sure that you're set up for that, and make sure that you're training people to not get hurt. And then monitor your pace. Be really deliberate when you're working with objects. It's, you know, seems an obvious thing, but, you know, you can get busy and you can start working really fast, especially on a large project. You want to avoid this situation, as shown in the lower right, which is an object that was actually glued into its mount because it was placed back in the mount before the hot glue had hardened. So that's a conservation treatment in the future, basically, when that object needs to be removed from the mount. So we're going to move into our materials section. Materials can be really tricky. So ideally, they're inert. They don't break down, and they're non-reactive, meaning they're not going to react with your objects. But in reality, archival materials are expensive. We are a small market, so nobody's building things specifically for us at, you know, a volume discount. So it can be expensive to source the best materials. So it's better to, or if you can, look at evaluating the risk of chemical contamination from materials to your objects. So you want to start from your objects. So objects made from chemically sensitive materials are at a higher risk of damage from contaminants and storage than objects that aren't made from chemically sensitive materials. So what do I mean by a sensitive object? Things like metals, mixed objects, composite objects that are made of more than one material. Plastics, because they break down themselves, so they're going to react in a poor storage environment. Some types of leather and paper and books. The object at the upper right is an archaeological shell. So that's also an object that can absorb pollutants in its environment. And then also film and media collections. And then objects that are more stable would be things that are generally inorganic, but some organics as well are more stable and less reactive chemically. Things like stone, ceramics. We go back to our number six bowl. Things made from wood that's well cured and some natural history collections like insects and study skins and Paxidermy. I'm going to pass it back over to Rachel. Thanks, Rebecca. So I'm just going to chip in with a couple of additional tools that I love. One thing that I found when I was working with one collection was a series of cookie cutters that wound up being great for sort of boring out shapes in foam, sort of little round shapes for wells. And I also like having a hairdryer or a hot air gun sometimes for molding things. And that was a good catch on the collections list discussion. I think that's the kind of thing that if people have those kinds of tips, we can also use the stash blog. It's listed on the website as the stash news session. And there are some great things there about workspaces. Like one place that I'd worked, their art handler had all these columns in his space that could be seen as a real downside for always being in the way. But he managed to put up all these Velcro panels and other things so he could hang tools off of them and have them be really handy. So as you're working, making sure that you also have a setup, you know, a workstation that's safe and efficient is really important, especially if you're doing a large project where people are going to be spending a long time making mounts, you want to make sure that they're working in a sort of ergonomic and healthy way. So one of the questions that I get, and I assume other conservators do too, is, you know, why all the white stuff? Like why do we always go for the things that are boring? Some of these materials come in various colors and options, and why is it that we're always going for the blend? And I think there's a couple of reasons for that. One is we tend to want to use materials that are in sort of their most natural form. So for instance, we would prefer, in some cases, to have unbleached muslin, sort of natural muslin, rather than bleached muslin cotton. The additional step of bleaching adds other materials to that textile, and when using textiles in general, sometimes when we buy them, there's extra things like size in them that you might want to wash out. When we look at foams, the foam generally comes out in some sort of translucent or white color. Very often in order to make it the funky blue or deep black, they're adding other pigments or dyes to those things, and understanding how that acts with the material over time or what might happen in an emergency situation like a flood, making sure that things are color-stable adds like another complexity. One of the other reasons that we recommend using things that are white or light-colored is that in storage, it helps you monitor for things like potential pest infestations and we're, you know, dirt the pollutant buildup. So, you know, it's really easier to see if there's, you know, frass or insect casings or, you know, or visible dust if your material is light. So what you're seeing here are a few examples of sample boards or touch boards. So it is complicated sometimes where somebody will say, you know, I'm using, at the foam or I'm using Tyvek or Remay and it's like then you go online and you realize, oh, there's lots of different choices here and how do I decide? So many suppliers that work with our industry, Rebecca mentioned a few names, and there's more on some of these other resources. They will have sample books or sometimes their catalog will explain it a little bit more in-depth, you know, what is used for what, but other times, you know, you can request small samples of things and developing, you know, some sort of package that allows you to train volunteers or other staff and sort of identify what the materials are is great, keeping your materials labeled in storage so that you know what you're getting, dating them so that you know when they came in in case, you know, every once in a while we hear about something happening with a funky batch of foam or something like that that allows you to go back to the supplier and, you know, talk about when you ordered it and make sure that there isn't anything else you need to know. The other thing you're seeing down here is what's called a pH pen, which allows you to sometimes, it should not be used on objects but if you have a lot of tissue and you're trying to figure out, is this, you know, buffered, is it unbuffered, is it just sort of a newsprint that somebody had lying around, a little swipe on a corner allows you to sort of figure out what kind of material you have here. So we tend to recommend a sort of limited palette of materials for housing that are in contact with your object because those are materials that are known to sort of age well, as Rebecca said, and not be so reactive. Sometimes there are substitutes. But as you saw from what Rebecca described, there are ways to use materials that we don't normally recommend with certain kinds of less reactive artifacts. So let's start talking about foam. Foam very often is in direct contact with our pieces. So this might be a place where I'd recommend sticking with some of the preservation suppliers or known manufacturers. You'll see polyethylene foam mentioned in catalogs by a number of brand names. So you'll see ethyl foam, volara, cellucushion, mini-cell, and there's a variety of densities and thicknesses. So you'll see it in plank in one or two inch. You'll see it on rolls. Sometimes it'll have waves in it. Sometimes it'll be flat. Sometimes you can get it as sheet. Some of the thinner versions, such as the volara or the cellucushion rolls, can be used to line shells and trays. And then thicker versions, such as the planks, can be used to carve to create those wedges or cavity mounts for fragile objects. Sometimes you'll see foams also listed as open cell or closed cell. And so that has to do with the manufacturing and the smoothness sometimes. So you'll see something like volara will have a sort of skin on it that makes it a little bit softer, whereas the plank ethyl foam on the cut edges, very often it's a little bit rougher and you might want to cover that. So let's see. One of the things also, I spent a few years working overseas. I know that we have one participant here from Israel where I was working. For me, working overseas was a challenge just because I was working in another language and I didn't have access to all the preservation suppliers that I relied on when I was here. And very often, even when I would call the distributors, they didn't necessarily have some of the information I was looking for. So I definitely appreciate the one, what we have here in terms of access and information. And two, I would say for those of you since we have a number of participants overseas, we do try on some of these resources to list sort of what is the core material in these foams that are items. And you can do the best, and we'll talk in a few minutes about some other resources for you. But one of the things that you can do is, again, focus in on what's going to be in contact with your object and that you can use your resources wisely. If you are keeping a close eye on your collection, I seem to have lost my screen. Mike, Susan? Right? Mike seems to be working on it. So this backer rod is another form for the foam rod. You saw a couple of nice examples in Rebecca's slides about ways that you can use this either as rings. There are a few tips on the stash site for how to do that. It can also be used to pad out the edges of things. And this is awesome material that is often available at local home stores. We recommend ordering it online, though, maybe rather than just picking it up at your local store so you can be sure that you're getting polyethylene rod and not something like polyurethane or Denver foam, which is produced by the same manufacturer. And sometimes it can be really difficult to know the difference just by touch or feel. So you'll see lots of other foams. Sometimes there are things like polyurethane foams. That would be one that you'd want to stay away from. Some of the black and other sort of light sort of softer foams. I think that you may see used in temporary applications like a storage crate, but maybe would not be the first choice for a long-term application. So another material that I like a lot is Teflon tape. It's sometimes being sold now by preservation vendors as artifact wrap. This is the same material that's used by plumbers and thin widths that you can buy it in the blue roll that you see there, the small one. It's the kind of thing that you can buy in your local hardware store. So this smooth and versatile wrap can be used to secure specimens to mount. So it can be used in place of something like the cotton and twill ties and securing loose elements. It sticks to itself and not the object. So sometimes you don't even need to tie it if you've wrapped it around a couple of times. Again, when possible, we would choose the white more added than sometimes it comes in other colors. The two rolls that you see on the right are the same material in a floss form. So sometimes that's the same as what you're getting in dental floss. So you can check there sometimes it's nylon and sometimes it'll say that it's a Teflon floss, in which case then it's also safe to use in a similar manner. Mike, we did cover sides 51 through 54. So we're all set. The next is material that we like a lot for use in storage. It's marble seal. So this is a material that's fairly expensive, but the good thing about it is that it can be used to compensate for other lower grade materials like NDF or particle board that might off-cast if they were in direct contact. Marble seal is a barrier film composed of laminated nylon, aluminum, and polyethylene. It's often used for bags and linings. If you have bought food in some of these like little metal foil pouches, that's the kind of thing that marble seal is. It's a really effective vapor barrier for the transmission of water vapor and also for atmospheric pollutants. The kinds that we tend to use are the ones of the nylon or polyethylene inner layer. So that allows it to bond to itself, and a heat sealer can be used to form an airtight seal. If you don't have a heat sealer, you can also use like a smaller tacking iron or even just a regular household iron. We often use it to create bags for passive humidity control and storage. It can be used, like Rebecca has mentioned, to line shelves. What you're seeing here on the right is a picture from a conservator Ellen Carly's blog where she's used it to line a storage crate with an object that is at risk of off-gassing from all of the exposed wooden surfaces. You often might hear about it being used to create packages that are used for low-oxygen environments with anoxic treatment for pest infestations. Marble seal does come in different grades. Marble seal 470 is more easily heat sealed while marble seal 360 is more puncture resistant. Marble seal 1311 is a vapor barrier with a polyethylene foil, polyethylene laminate, and a polycotton scrim-facing, which allows you to easily attach it to wooden crates or shelving using a wood glue or other adhesive. So there's a bunch of different products that you can choose from for your application. Again, a role of this is pricey, but if you can't get access or it's just out of your budget range for now, you could try doing the same thing with a heavy-duty aluminum foil. You wouldn't be able to heat seal it, but you might be able to wrap it around a tube and that might be good enough for your first stage. Again, the thing that we want to emphasize here is that Reorg is really looking at making improvements to the big picture. Once you've increased access to your collections and have a more organized storage space, that work will allow you then to go back and then make additional upgrades as time and budget allows and you'd probably be able to do so with even an increased ability to understand and budget for materials. So it's not necessary for you to worry that you haven't done enough or that everything needs to be done and be perfect. The Reorg is just getting you. It's making progress. So Tyvek's seat is a material that you've probably all seen or used in one form. If you've driven by a home in construction, you may have seen it as a big Tyvek. It's printed on one side. It's a Tyvek home wrap. The mailers that are that sort of thick material that's impossible to rip open is very often made out of Tyvek. It also comes in several grades, so you can get one that's really thick and stiff. But then there's also something called the soft wrap, which if you wash it becomes even softer. So in order to do that, what you're seeing on the top right is one of those impact fillers that Rebecca mentioned. So that is using that really soft, fluffy Tyvek that's in there, has been washed in a washing machine with cool water, no detergent even, and then allowed to air dry. If you put it in your dryer, it will melt. But then it's super soft, so you can use it to tuck into ethyl foam like you see here on the corners to pad out some rougher ethyl foam, or the stiffer stuff is used here on the left as liners and sort of flip sheets for these really crumbly plant fiber pieces. Tyvek is often really great to use with polyester batting to create inner supports and cores, what you're seeing here are pieces of these two-part moccasin mounts that were made at NMAI. So there was one piece that was made sort of for the toe pillow and another that would go in the heel so that they could be easily inserted. So polyester batting is something that's really cheap and easily available all over the place. For storage of collections, we want to avoid plastics with added like plasticizers or fillers, again, often because of off-gassing. So safer plastic choices for containers include polyethylene, low-density, or LDPE, or polycyline, which is PET, polypropylene, sometimes listed as PP, and also acrylic. Acrylic is much more brittle, so the acrylic boxes will not usually have the same kinds of snap-on tops. So that would just be something that if you're trying to come up with a container and a lid. So here, if you are looking for things that are like food-grade plastics, some of the recycling guidelines would sometimes be a decent guide for what that plastic is. So you'd want to focus in on plastics that have the little triangle with a number one, a four, or a five. Those should be a guide. Often you'll see other kinds of corrugated boards. Sometimes they're called blue board, which are the paper boards, but then you'll also see polypropylene board, sometimes known by its trade name, coroplast. I've thought this is something I know is also available in Israel, because it's used all the time outside for the pergolas. Here in the U.S., you can often get them sometimes with these pre-made tab-and-slot constructions, so they come flat, and it's a nice way of coming up with a quick, ready-made solution that is easy to store until you need it. A lot of the preservation vendors, or at least several of them, will make things if you're doing a large rehousing project, so they will work with you to come up with sizes or shapes if there's an order that would be large enough, or they can recommend a product that they already have. Sometimes a large institution like the Smithsonian or NARA has placed an order and then when there's leftover, they will have things that may or may not make it into the catalog, so it's always worth reaching out to the preservation vendors to ask. So the coroplast is great for things that are a little bit heavier or need more robust support, but the Acid-Free Board comes in various corrugations, and the number of corrugations and their orientation will depend on how strong or flexible they are. So you'll see things as listed as D-flute or E-flute and single wall and double wall. So the double wall will make things stronger, but a little bit harder to manipulate if you're turning it into boxes or trays. The nice thing about the corrugated paperboard is that there's a lot of solutions on stash that talk about how to make it into all kinds of containers. So it's something that you can choose to make into something that's space-efficient and customized if you need it. A little bit about hot melt glue. You can sort of get your Martha Stewart on and use your hot glue gun. Just make sure that you use the right glue for your material. Hot melt glue is sold either at low temperature, which is appropriate for the paperboard and foam, but you need to use the high-temperature glues for chloroplast and back and sometimes go straight through your foam. So this is also, as Rebecca said, something where you just need to be mindful on one big project. Probably the greatest number of injuries is caused by hot melt glue drips, so especially at that high temperature, you need to be careful. So for practical alternatives, again, some of the things that you can consider are washed, cotton fabric and in places where you may not have a lot of tissue or the soft tyvek. Wood shelves you can use for less sensitive places and then put a barrier level of something else between the shelves and the object. Sometimes you can use the high-density polyethylene. Things like painters' drop cloths or trash bags can be a helpful barrier also to line or cover things. As we said before, the food-grade plastics tend to be the plastic types that we would be looking for and doing things like Rebecca mentioned with acidic cardboard tubes, you can cover them with Mylar or Marvel Seal if you can't afford the acid-free tubes. So the things that we tend to avoid are things like vinyl or PVC, although as we've seen when I was in Israel, I would also use PVC pipe, sometimes as bases for wobbly ceramics and would line them with backer rod. Things made out of rubber, which is inherently unstable, and wool, which is such an attractive product for pests. So wool and wool felt would be things that I would stay away from. So two other resources to know about. The AIC, in conjunction with a number of other organizations, and institutions has developed and started the Materials Working Group. This group has a sort of two-year mission to come up with a plan to create an online resource that will present additional materials for choosing safe materials for exhibit, storage, and transport. Right now, if you go on to the AIC Wiki, you'll be able to sort of see what the goals are for the various subgroups of this. And we're sort of one year in by the end of the second year. We'll give a little bit more information about what the working group has come up with in terms of a plan. But there are starts of resources and things that you can access already. One of those is a long-standing resource, the Chamio, which is supported by the Museum of Fine Arts. And this is also a Wiki. If you go into the search bar, you can type a material like esophome or volara, and it will tell you what is that material. Is it a trade name? What are some other trade names for it? It'll tell you whether it's, you know, sometimes if it's safe to use or how it's used. We're incorporating some material from the PAKIN website and some of the entries, which is a little bit more focused on the practical uses of some material. And the PAKIN website is another great resource for practical information used by our handlers and preparators. So BIC, Wiki, Chamio, and PAKIN are all places where you can get additional website, the stash materials list. So I think that is about what we wanted to cover on this webinar. You know, this is just to give you an idea of the kinds of things to think about as you sort of, so you can think about the solutions, which will then lead into next week's webinar about like, if we know how we want to store stuff and what we can and have available for storing things, it will help us plan in advance for our RE-ORG day. So the assignment that we have for the next webinar for ongoing, if you're working on your credley badge for this course, is to come up with storage concepts with three outliers in your collections using the 12-object categories of RE-ORG. So if you have, you know, a large, oversized, you know, 3D piece, if you have something, you know, a large, you know, 2D piece or, you know, something even super teeny tiny, three things that wouldn't be part of necessarily what you'd be doing in sort of bulk. And so, you know, think about, like, look at the Tumblr page, look at stash, you know, if you've had a concept. So try and come up with three ideas that you think you might be able to implement. And the next is to start a list of the storage materials that you have on hand or that you think might be applicable to the kinds of rehousing and storage that you wouldn't want to do. So that is the next assignment. And I think... We have a few minutes left for questions. Yeah. We have a few questions, and I'll send them to you if we don't get through them so you can write answers, and I'll post them. So Angela Sigala asked, what kind of foot-operated work list were you using, or foot-operated list? The one that we're using is about 50 years old, and we've maintained it well, but I did a quick web search, and you can get them from, like, materials handling places like Granger or Uline. You want to look for a foot-operated hydraulic platform lift truck. So basically, it's got little forks on it. You can deck it, and then you just pump it up and down. The one that we have is really smooth, which is nice. It's small. Okay. You can get it to spaces. Maybe you can write that down for me, and I'll post it. You bet. So let's see. Amber Tarnasky says, I need sources for coring tubes, like that shown in the left of a picture. You can get those from scientific supply houses like Carolina Biological Supply, and in a quick search, I thought you could also get them through Amazon. They're called cork borers. So search for that. Okay. Right. The other thing that you can use for that kind of thing is, aside from something like the cookie cutters or whatever, is that if you have metal pipe and someone with access, you can sort of sharpen the edges of that to have borers in our cores in various sizes. Right. Okay. Amber also asks, mini-cell and archival quality foam. I'm not familiar with mini-cell. So in past projects, we have used mini-cell in contact with objects. It's been a number of years, so we have to go back and sort of tech if mini-cell as currently being manufactured a decade later is the same as what we were using back then, but at that time it was tested and was on our approved list of materials. Okay. Since we're almost out of time, Maria Garcia Morales has a question that's pertinent to the homework, and that is, I did not quite understand the concept of outliers regarding to the collection. So outliers are three things that might be, or in this case we're just saying three, but outliers would be the things that probably wouldn't be served by the bulk solutions that you'd hopefully be coming up with. So let's say it may be, let's say you have a lot of textiles and most of them can be rolled, but one of them is a whole sort of costume that needs to be stored together. So like that would be an outlier. Or maybe most of your things are small, three-dimensional pieces, but then you have like one really large oversized piece. So that one would be an outlier for what you would mostly be doing with your three-dimensional collections. So in next week's webinar, we'll be talking more about how you build an approach for the bulk of what you're doing. And most of those are going to be things that are sort of fast or easily accomplished or just getting it to the next stage so you can get your storage better. And then you may be going back for a stage two as time allows. But the outliers are things that you might need to deal with just to create space and get out of the way. Okay. I think we're going to leave it there. I'll send you the rest of these questions. I also had two questions and I'll send them to you too. Sorry, it was a lot to cover, but I can see that there are a lot of good questions. So we'll do our best to answer them. Yeah, and we'll see you all next week. And then after that, we have a month off and we'll see you at the beginning of June. So thank you all very much. Thank you, Rebecca and Rachel. And I think that went really well. Thanks. Thanks all of you for listening. Yes. Okay. See you next week.