 Alright, so today we are going to talk about a few different projects that we have had the opportunity to implement on our operation. Our address is Lemon, South Dakota, but as you can see on the map, we're actually located over in southwestern North Dakota in Grant County. So right there on the border. And the projects that we've been able to implement, I just want to recognize right off the bat that that has been possible through the Farmer Rancher SAIR grants. And so just wanted to recognize them right away and thank them for that opportunity to implement projects, to take what we've learned and to continue to grow with it and to share with you all what we've learned along the way. So to start off with, I think Drew will take us through a bit of a history about the project area that we really focused on with this bale grazing effort. Kind of the resource concerns that we had and what led us to the point of considering bale grazing. And then we'll talk you through the different projects that we have continued to build on to basically improve that initial project. Our bale grazing area, we're kind of focusing looking at this land here, how degraded it is. It's what we first led us to bale grazing and this is not alkali areas, it's just a lack of topsoil. It blew away from farming, from homesteading days. Not always, no. It's some pretty low depressions. This over here is in a creek bottom, but the clay is all exposed and it all blew away. This used to be farmed up until about this time and then they abandoned it and just let it grass back young because it wouldn't even raise a notes crop. So we're going to go on to 1995. You can see all these spots being more pronounced. This is in hay production at this time, so you're just taking nutrients away, you aren't just taking grain, you're taking the whole plant away every year. This is where I currently live and this is the areas that we expanded our bale grazing into after we saw what bale grazing would do for us. Before I was a junior in high school, you see all these washing? There's a bunch of hills that are on this side of the property and all that snow melt comes rushing down. There's quite a bit of erosion and there's also quite a bit of erosion that comes from the north. So we deal with a lot of water and wind erosion. When the previous owner had this area planted into alfalfa, which helped with the washouts, but I still were removing the hay and hauling it away, 2017 is when I took over and here I'm trenching water lines out to these hay fields and then I trenched over to put water over here. So as you can tell from some of those initial pictures, we obviously had some resource concerns and just talking through those more specifically, one of our biggest concerns was the loss of soil due to wind and then poor water management carrying a lot of those resources off the land. So just some examples of that. Up here you can see one of the fence lines around a hay field. This had been historically farmed so you can see that there's a pretty drastic drop. And then the picture up here in the corner, that's that land to the north that Drew is talking about. It's not in our management, but for a number of years before that was in a perennial system, it was summer followed every year. It's also higher up in elevation so anytime that there'd be a big moisture event, all of that would come gushing down through a lot of those wetland or lowland areas in Drew's backyard. And when that came, it came with a lot of momentum and kept moving things downstream. So thinking about how we could slow that down was part of our management goal as well. And then a lot of those fields once they quit farming them, like Drew said, they let them just kind of naturally grass back in, started using them for grazing, but it wasn't under any type of a management plan. So your typical areas where the cattle would really just spend a lot of time overgrazing causing some compaction. Anytime the wind blows, this is kind of what it can look like. So this is just over the hill where our folks live. And then after a lot of those windy days, this next clip is actually in the road ditch that usually gets hayed. So our other big resource concern, like I said, was water management. This is kind of on the backside of Drew's yard. Over here, there's a culvert. That culvert catches all that water from the field to the north. Looking at the water, you can see it's pretty dark and dirty. That just blasts through his fields. Not only in these low areas, but just, you know, it really bothers us when we get a good rain or we have those snow melts and we see all the water leave our place. So anything that we can do to figure out how to capture that infiltrate it more into our soil, we're always looking out for options like that. In terms of what it looked like on those hilltops or even in the low areas, this is kind of where the production was at. Lots of exposed clay pans, really not a whole lot of topsoil left. That far picture, you can see soil type would drastically change within a small distance. So it was an interesting piece of ground to come into. So going into bale grazing, this is after year one of bale grazing. And it's kind of hard to see, but you can see little dark spots here. That's, we did rows of bales out there about a week's worth of hay at a time. And this is the season after. So there's a lot less exposed soil. Just because of the composting. But the healthier vegetative state of the plants too. Not sure what's going on here. So that was 2019, which was also a, it was a wet year for us. So it's a winter feeding strategy for us. It's different for everybody. For us, we put bales out in the field or we leave them out in the field. And we let the cows eat for a week's worth of time. Without starting to attract or anything, we use an electric fence to allow the cows into another group of bales and another group of bales throughout the winter. Some people put it on a truck to haul it out once a week or once every 10 days. It's whatever works for you, but it's reducing your fuel usage and feeding where you want nutrients. Some of them got made in that field and some got hauled in from some CRP land that we had to haul the hay anyway. There's enough bad spots in that field that anything is a good spot. So I won't spend a whole lot of time on this one, but we'll get into it more in the last two projects. But I guess I wanted to put this up there for the first project partially cuz it did show some immediate responses to bale grazing. But basically what you're looking at is on the side, there's the historic sample site. So this is in that hay field where we first began bale grazing but prior to ever doing it. And then on the right side, fall of 2019. There's a few different categories. So that first year we bale grazed, that whole area was planted to a cover crop. So you have the cover crop only column. Then we took samples that were directly underneath the bales that were grazed within that area that had the cover crop. So again, the cattle had access to both the cover crop as well as the bales for that winter. And then the indirect impact is samples that were collected within that area but not directly underneath the bale. And I guess in general, pH, we didn't necessarily see a whole lot of difference between historic and. Or excuse me, we did see a little difference between the historic and fall of 2019 but not a large amount by any means. Looking at MP and K, we did see more positive responses, especially underneath that direct impact. So when we saw that, that's something that the more that we can create that impact, the more bales, the more we can spread that out the better for us. Lots of people are always interested in the organic matter levels. And for us, we recognize that takes time. And this ground was pretty, I guess, inactive for so long that we didn't really anticipate seeing much response to organic matter for a few years. Just a matter of reactivating those microorganisms. And then not only that, but also beginning to incorporate the litter and then that eventually being broken down. So we'll come back to a lot of these same nutrient levels as we move forward into future years. So after we did that first bale grazing project, we saw, I guess, enough positive responses that it encouraged us to continue doing it, not only to continue doing it, but also to spread out our impact onto some of the other acres that we manage. And we also became interested in incorporating sheep alongside the cattle in that type of system. We wanted to see if there was better ways that they could utilize that forage or different ways. We were also really intrigued by how they would behave and how that would ultimately affect their manure distribution across that landscape. And if there was a way that we could also capitalize and kind of diversify our operation, diversify our cash flow, those would all be potential win-wins for us. So we just wanted to experiment with that and see how it would go. So in general for this multi-species grazing, bale grazing project, that took place during 2020 and 2021 throughout the summers, we spent a lot of time just making some basic modifications to incorporate the sheep. We did soil samples every year, set up the bale grazing. Like Drew said, we tried to use bales that were put up on those acres. We didn't necessarily want to, you know, mine away those nutrients. We wanted to keep as many of those nutrients there as possible. And if there was opportunities to get a good deal and purchase hay from other people and bring their nutrients into our operation, those were things that we would also consider. So this is kind of what the project area looked like. As you can see here, we really focused on 2020 and the winter of 2021 in just a small area. And to be honest, that was partially because we weren't really sure how it was going to go with sheep. We grew up with sheep. We were familiar with them, but we hadn't ever put them out in the winter. And we were trying to make as little modifications to our fences as possible. So a lot of the perimeter fences are maintained with two wire electric high tensile. And in any low areas, we would maybe add a third wire, but trying to really minimize the changes if we could. So to do the bale grazing in this area, because it's a small area, and we were trying to feed quite a number of animals, we would set up so much for a certain time frame, and then we would have to go back out and set it up again. So we just did that a few times, picked the nice days in the winter to turn on the tractor, and it worked pretty well. And then in 2021 and 2022, you can see we spread out that area quite a bit. When we set up a lot of our bale grazing areas, our starting point always is oriented around the water. So we start there with the first strip, and then just kind of keep going from there. And for us, we try to set up as much as we can in the fall before the ground freezes, just makes life a lot easier. Other things to point out, I guess, would be the historic sample site is over in this area, and some of the other areas we continued with are over here. So like Erin said before, modifications to fences. A lot of the perimeter was barbed wire or two-wire high tensile electric. We'd add an electric wire to the barbed wire fences, and we would add an electric wire to some of the two-wire electric ones anyway. And then in the bale grazing area itself, we'd just use a fiberglass post of these clips with sheep we'd have to have two or three of these polywires in order to keep the sheep in, especially when it was late fall and there was a little bit of green growth underneath the areas on the hay field because the sheep would rather eat that than hey. And again in the spring, and the first year we did it was pretty easy because when we would run out of hay in those five little rotations, I was able to have the hay hauler call him up and he would haul hay in and drop the bales and I wouldn't have to transport him twice. So we were looking at grazing behavior with the sheep and the cows. It kind of surprised us that once the sheep would get into a bale, they'd break in before the cows on their preferred bale. They'd eat what they want and then the rest of the day they'd just spend going out digging in a little bit of snow and grazing grass and eating gumweed and things that you wouldn't think that they would really want to eat when they've got green hay sitting there, but that's what they did. The cows, they would break into a bale after the sheep found the good bales and they would just eat there and then they'd loaf there and they laid on a lot more hay than the sheep did. 2020, the area that we stuck with was a really depleted clay hill. We ended up going over it three different times before the end of the winter, which created a really good ground cover, high impact, and a lot of mulching. We're still seeing some of that residue break down. 2021, we expanded the bale grazing area, which was good because once you start seeing results you want it everywhere, but also when you spread it out you'll spread out your results too. In this picture you can see our windbreaks that we got. They provide some shelter for the sheep underneath and the cows can't get into it. For the most part, this winter they didn't use the windbreaks, they would just stay behind bales. Why would you stand behind a steel windbreak when you can stand behind a bale and eat? Another thing and I guess a bigger difference between those two winters is that in 2021 and 2022 we also ended up calving out in the bale grazing area. As the grass was greening up, they also behaved differently in the bale grazing units as well. Pushing them to clean up became a little bit more challenging, but it was nice also to have that bedding out there for the calves as well. There was some give and take on how that worked when we were calving. We just leave the net wrap on the bale and it keeps the cows from breaking into a large amount of bales at once. They will walk from one end of the field to the other to see which bale they want to break into and if they have a, like this year they're eating oats bales, whatever reason, and they'll eat those to the ground before they break into the next ones. And then we pick up the net wrap on nice days or in the spring. It's better than... Any problems with the choke on it? No, they push it off to the side and you just pick it up. Sometimes it gets buried a little bit with some hay when they're in the springtime and that stuff is breaking down a little bit. You pick it up then. So here it is, one winner. They look pretty happy just laying around. They're getting a little bit of windbreak from the snow banks actually instead of being in the windbreaks. Typical, you'll see the cows and sheep together. They don't operate or don't stay in separate areas. What about placing bales on end? You can see in this picture the bales are tipped on end and that's also so it deters the cows from breaking into them all at once. It also creates a different... It also creates a bit of an area where the snow doesn't accumulate. People do bale grazing in many different ways but from our experience anytime we've left it on their side it ends up creating a snow drift rather than a space where the animals can actually bed up next to it and find some windbreak. We try to wait as long as we can in the fall before we go out and spread those bales and tip them on end because innately as soon as you tip them on end it's going to infiltrate any potential rain which is going to reduce the quality of that forage. If we can hold off on doing that, later into the season the better for us. Everybody talks about the waste. After we were done with the rotation there isn't a whole lot of waste left and this is what a lot of times the cows do. They just kind of push that net wrap off to the side or you see it in a circle because they'll reach up to the top of that bale and they'll just push it down as they're eating that bale and then you just go over and you pick up and there's a ring, a net wrap. We started it. We would go back in in the spring and we'd run a harrow across this residue to break it up and distribute it. And then we kind of decided what are we doing? We're putting more time and diesel fuel into this. So we started just saving this hay field wherever we did it that winter and we'll graze it the next spring. The cows go in. The hoof action disturbs their residue and distributes a little bit more. They eat a little bit of weeds or whatever's volunteered because if you feed millet or cover crop bales that have mature seed you're going to see some turnips growing. You're going to have this, that and the other. It's a learning process for you too as much as it is for the livestock. This winter, it's a little different with the snow. You get a lot of manure on top of the snow. Then the snow blows over. Over here is just sheep manure. In this project we also were interested in not just the distribution of the manure from the cattle versus sheep but a lot of times the cattle manure is going to break down differently than sheep. Sheep's drier. They chew their food more so there's less weed seeds. We're just kind of observing what was going on there. Then the residue breaks down. This summer after we did a cutting these bale spots are the only spots that re-grew because we didn't get rain from July 4th on. When you look at some of the soil tests even if they aren't impressive they're still giving you a forage response which is kind of interesting. From this project we took samples in the fall of 2020, 2021 and then in the spring following that final bale grazing year. This slide is just focusing on our macro nutrients NP and K. Traditional samples, what most of you are probably used to seeing on a soil test. Then the available is based on the Haney soil test if you're familiar with that and what is projected to be available based on microbial activity the following year. Interesting to look at what's happening from one year to the next and in the summer of 2021 we were very dry yet I think it was around August, September we got hit with a lot of moisture probably close to 10 inches or more which is not normal for us. So even though overall we're seeing a trend that's increasing looking at some of these levels during that summer and fall what we expect happened is that there were some of those nutrients that are soluble they were just simply leached down into the soil profile further and it's not that they aren't there it's just that we weren't detecting them in that soil sample that we collected at the surface. So that was something that really didn't bother us too much knowing it's potentially just deeper in the profile knowing that this isn't a perennial system that's will have access to it in the future and again this is just some of those other micronutrients Why do you think your pH went up so much? It was 7.6.9 before That was a different spot this was tested on that clay hill that we went three times over That's part of the reason we spent so much time in that area We wanted to see a big response and we didn't on the traditional nitrogen which leaching So now I just have some pictures of the forage response here that's that field where we took those soil samples you can really see the high amount of impact 2022 we spread out all across this area You can really see where the fields are placed though Right? Yeah, you just want more Yeah and more cows So on the ground this is kind of what it looks like in two different types of conditions one where there's a lot of seasonal moisture, things are growing while responding, you can see there's lots of sweet clover out here you can still see the dark green circles of the bales This is um Yeah, later in the season September, October, so conditions are getting more limited but this is still a an area where you see that nice dark green you can also see it's thicker it's a little bit taller, more lush in general and at the end we have some drone footage going over one of the bale grazing areas from this last year and it's always interesting to look at these aerial images in the year in which your conditions are really restricted because everything that you need to work on or that is having decent responses really pops out on those years Those acres are either being grazed as a perennial or if they're not grazed they'll get baled And going into our project that we're starting now So with this whole carbon trouble that's going on in the world everybody's wanting to either ignore it or capitalize on it or do something with carbon and all these different companies they want to test your soil and pay you for the carbon in your soil but are they testing just the top six inches or are they testing your subsoil how deep do they go down because there's carbon a long ways down in your soils and how do you build carbon Well you can either overwhelm it on the surface so you can build but your topsoil is your highest point of carbon already So we started thinking that if you could get this residue, manure, urine from the bale grazing deeper into the soil profile you're getting into an area that's maybe one percent organic matter something that in our area is hard and compact and the biological life isn't thriving We're already struggling with water infiltration issues from past years So I had experimented with some key line cultivation and pasture settings with a different implement and then we wanted to combine this to get both water water management and to get nutrients and carbon and feed the biological life in our subsoil not just the topsoil Part of the other issue is how much of your nutrients volatilize and just go to the atmosphere I mean your old dead grass or it carbonizes and you lose it but it does provide ground cover So what is key line cultivation? So normally when a rain event happens water will run off of your high spots and go into the valleys and it concentrates more and more flows feed and then you get washouts in your fields that's kind of what's been happening to the east of my house and so this guy in Australia P.A. Yeomans he started cultivating his land slightly off contour so he would go into these valleys and he would run a subsoiler essentially down out to the ridge he had to do some survey work to where he would have a drop and when we did it we did about one foot every 50 feet of driving so the water just basically comes from its concentration points in the valley and it gets redirected out to your ridges your ridges are sandy your ridges need the moisture because they're what eroded and it's just another water management tool for us but it also would transport that manure down those subsoil slits Most of our hay field grasses are like intermediate wheat grass or western wheat grass there's some switch grass species but they're all deep rooted the shorter rooted grasses would be more introduced like crested wheat grass and it's not really a desirable so it wasn't an issue So Drew kind of talked about this but with this project we wanted to continue to evaluate the usefulness of bale grazing and combining the benefits of that system and considering how key line cultivation could be used in conjunction with it to begin to sequester that carbon continue to promote that nutrient cycling and hopefully increase some forage production go ahead and in general our timeline kind of follows the same concept of our previous projects continued with the we'll continue with the annual soil sampling putting up hay getting it set up for bale grazing we installed all of our key lines this fall which there'll be a map kind of showing you the areas that we were really focusing on and then our goal in the next couple of seasons is to make sure that we can get across those areas and bale graze in them and in particular try to continue to do this with the sheep with the hope that their manure as that runoff occurs can get distributed into the bottom of those key lines so this is a map of the project area again any of the areas highlighted in yellow is where we ended up going out this fall and running the key lines so as you can see in this picture it's a minimal disturbance it has a shank that'll go down the ground about 18 to 24 inches it has a colter in the front of it and it leaves a fairly nice slit in the ground should have had a bigger tractor attached to it but I was having a little hard time steering so I had to have a bale in the front of the tractor to keep keep steering but but this is the end result and it what I was using before in the past year was quite a bit more disturbance and I I didn't want that in the hayfield I wanted to be able to bale graze over the top of this and then follow up with running equipment over the top where in the past year I didn't really like it to begin with but it also created an opportunity that I could and introduce legumes into my past years that were a little overrun with crested wheat and other species so these slits if I get hay and manure down into these slits it'll provide a cool moist environment and we're assuming or we're hoping that we're going to lose less nutrients to volatilization once it's into there this winter it looks like we're going to have some runoff because all the snow we've got but on an open winter we might have to run out there with a harrow to disturb to move some of this manure and experiment in some areas but hopefully we just get runoff and we don't have to worry about it but it also opens up the ground to let oxygen go to those microbes last year we attended this conference and there was a guy here that talked about your soil compaction and the level of compaction that basically starved the microbes from living so you need air food and water for these microbes so it's kind of hard to see but if you get a little imaginative this is with the snow on it this winter when we first started getting snow that ground was opened up the snow was melting and going down those slits filling up so instead of the sun coming out and that snow evaporating and just going away there was moisture going in the ground this is actually in the pasture right next to it with the other tool that I have so you see this added ground disturbance but you can see the water being redirected staying in those and this event was probably a half inch rain and it would have been down the slope and gone yeah yeah they don't follow the direct contour of the land because otherwise they fill up and then they run over to the next but if they're slightly off then they they'll run a long ways and then they find a little pocket of sand or whatever and the water is going in the ground it might make it to an aquifer or it might water your hayfield, your gate, whatever but it's doing better than going down the creek and being in Mississippi that's a subsoiler that I used but it didn't have the no-till disturbance shank on it so it it just caused a little bit more disturbance so it'd peel out these little lumps rather than just splitting the ground open all in the shank it was a straight shank that goes down with a point forward in the front and it's got a colter to open the sod rather than to pull it open I probably have some photos here at the end so with this we only were able to kind of collect some samples this spring and these samples we're going to be able to compare them at some point to this historic sample site but we're primarily interested in and I think what's important or something to consider for today is you can see with these initial samples from the samples at 0 to 6 to 6 to 24 you know we're really hoping to see improvement deeper into that soil profile so in the future these samples will become kind of our baseline for comparison but so we did a Haney test that's what this CO2C is it's the respiration or burst test and it's an indication of your biological life so you can see a dramatic drop deeper down you are so we're hoping with the oxygen the food, the moisture that this number will really increase when you look into building organic matter it takes quite a while to go from that composting stage to actually becoming organic matter so we may end up using this number to judge whether the biological life in 5 years will increase the organic matter or not with this project that's just the life of the project is a 2 year project with Sarah Sulfur it's soluble and when you dig down in that soil in that area there's actual yellow chunks of sulfur in there so aside from the nutrients within those key lines we also want to monitor what effect we actually have on that soil moisture both horizontally and vertically and then like Drew mentioned compaction is another thing we'll look at I believe that gentleman that was here last year said at 300 pounds of pressure that's when you really dramatically reduce the potential for biological activity so we'll just kind of track those levels over time with a penetrometer and hopefully we can take those at multiple depths as well as distances away from those lines and then you know Carl already left the room but if you don't know Carl Hoppe he's in the center over here he's the Sarah coordinator for North Dakota and he's been a valuable resource for us in terms of just being able to kind of share our experiences with this project he's coordinated some opportunities to have some tours through the place and I don't know Drew probably has a different opinion on this than I do but anytime that we can just share some practical knowledge and experience with producers and kind of give them the tools to figure out what fits their operation is something that I enjoy doing and helping them just because we implement a project one way on our farm like it doesn't mean that it has to look that way on their farm and encourage them to figure out what's going to fit their operation so in our experience going to a lot of the traditional outreach tours or educational sessions sometimes hasn't really been that valuable and so we've tried to kind of create different opportunities for producers to find that and with this project one of the things that we've done is create a mailbox tour in our neighborhood the neighbors aren't going to come up to you and ask you what you're doing and why you're doing it and how it's going to work and show you that they're actually interested in it they have a heart like you know it's just strange but they don't want to admit that but you'll catch them out there looking at your water tank or you'll catch them slowly driving by while you're putting these key lines in and they're never going to ask you about it but they're watching so if we're gone at a conference like this and they happen to drive up to this mailbox and grab some papers out of there that share accurately what we're doing we're hoping that that will help rather than just presuming what's going on out there but Drew probably has some comments well part of it is the property west of where I live is right along the highway and anytime you're doing anything it seems like one of our neighbors drives by at about 15 miles an hour you know and he just keeps an eye on the place and he doesn't ask but he'll ask your uncle so we wanted to put it out there in a just a non-traditional route and it's hard to capture because of how effective it is you know it's being used but nobody admits to it you mentioned to one person I saw you out there checking out that winter water tank oh when was that and then they start talking it's been interesting and some people you just see them starting to implement things when you're driving anywhere that's new they're bail grazing now where did they start that from but then there's some we have been interviewed on podcasts and there's been articles and the other traditional routes but future considerations so the first year we did this with sheep we we were wanting to do some fall lambing so we didn't have used bread for the spring lambing they were a little older they were quite good condition and then they went out with the cows they were in really good condition they they didn't really use any of the windbreaks they'd use them every once in a while but it was more to just on them then this winter we've got a mix of you lambs for replacements there was some young use some old use it's kind of hard to do a one size fits all so for us it became more important to make sure all the sheep that are going to be going out into bail grazing in good body condition or you sort them off and keep them in until they are shelter well we've got we've got lots of portable windbreak and we planted trees but those trees are small and the windbreaks after two blizzards filled up with snow and so then the sheep were out lounging behind those which was fine until until another blizzard happens and you feel sorry for them and then we had some predator issues because of placing haystacks right next to our bail grazing area well predators need habitat to survive blizzards too so it was kind of like putting things a little too close and there was some predator issues we wanted to bring in sheep but during the storms they wouldn't they wouldn't leave where they wanted to be they had bonded with the cows and the snow was pretty darn deep at that point so it was you can only do what you can do and you you learn every year but supplementation one year we had a creeper panel so that way the sheep could come and go and get into better quality hay and we found that they just wanted to be with the cows and I don't know if that would have been the same this year or not it's kind of hard to predict an animal's habit or but so here's some of the drone footage that was taken in was it August? yeah so this is in August after when did it quit raining July 4th basically quit raining so this is coming kind of off the big hill to the east of Drew's place it'll eventually make a swoop around to the north but lots of runoff comes out through these fields and in this area over here is where we started installing those key lines this fall now you can see I'm starting to haul hay into that field for bale grazing that's the odd place the odd place bales this area here we bale grazed on last winter you don't see much residue and down here too I calved in here and here because I still had bales but it's good when you have extra hay so instead of lining them up stacking up whatever I just kept feeding through calving and as the drone rotates you can kind of see the waterways here this is north of the house they concentrate and then they come down through a culvert here and wash down through the property a few years ago it's a neighbors but you can't really rely on winter grazing when you get 60 inches of snow we we had a bunch of hay fields that we didn't cut this year the intermediate wheat grass and western wheat grass and switchgrass with alfalfa mix it was standing about this tall just getting ready to graze it and then those blizzards happened and it's flat on the ground or it's so deep in snow that the cows won't even go to it I mean so it's kind of hard for us to rely on that we've swath grazed some and again you don't know if you're going to get a windstorm and it's all going to blow into the trees we swathed some this fall at mom and dad's place and then we had to go with pitchforks and clean it out of the new planting of trees because it buried I mean pick up ball up those windrows I've tried kicking bales out with no net wrap or anything basically making a pile and yeah yeah so this here we're intensively grazing sheep down through the wet land area below we get these funnels of wind that come through and so you can go from I mean a couple hundred yards and there'll be snow or there's absolutely nothing blowing and it just it's pretty hard to manage and mom and dad's area they got a lot of trees but some years it funnels the wind and some years it really blocks it you can see here all the green from the bale grazing residues and some lines here where I scratched in some key lines in