 Hello everyone. I am Manthi Sharma and you are watching E4M Pride of Bharat Brands, a unique series that celebrates the resilience, skill and success stories of some of the top SMBs in the country. These businesses have not only scripted great success saga for themselves but have also immensely contributed to the growth of Indian economy and also the Meakin India mission of the Indian government. Today we are proud to have with us Mr Chaitanya Ramalinga Gaurav. He is the co-founder and director of Wake Fitco, a brand incepted in 2016 as a D2C supplier of premium mattresses at affordable prices to Indian consumers. Today it reportedly commands more than 40% of the share in the category and had clocked in rupees 416 crores in revenue in the last financial year and I guess they are hoping to double it down for the coming fiscal and we'll get to know more about it from Chaitanya. He'll talk to us about the brand, its story, its marketing strategies and a lot more. Welcome Chaitanya. Hi Manthi, thanks for having me here. So let's start from the beginning. As we say, just tell us how Wake Fitco was incepted, what was the market situation like back then and what prompted you and other founders to create the brand? Sure. So Ankit and I are the two co-founders and our experiences and past skills were very, very diverse and different. Ankit comes from the chemical engineering background, IIT, Roorkee and then I worked in a German multinational understanding the form and its intricacies. So how is form made? What are the chemical reactions that happen? How is it, what density does it come out in? What are the properties of it? So he came from that experience and I am a computer science engineer and post that did my MBA from Indian School of Business, Hyderabad and so I was a management consultant before Wake Fit and post my management consulting days, I did a couple of startups and both of which were in the consumer internet space and so my skills were in online marketing and community building. So the Eureka moment so to speak for the company was when Ankit's wedding was fixed and he sort of went to the market to buy a mattress and set up his home in anticipation of the wedding and so forth and what we realized was that the cost of raw materials, cost of labor and everything else put together was on the one hand and the prices that the consumers were paying on the other hand were too very, very diverse in nature. There was no linkage at all. So we figured out that the consumers are paying a lot more than actually necessary and we also realized through a little bit of our own research that it wasn't because the product was going through any value addition in the value chain, not at all. It was just going from middleman to middleman finally reaching the consumers home so everybody was just adding their own margins. So the middleman were not really adding value. So for example in a software reseller business before SaaS came in, the middleman would actually add value potentially by installing it as well as training you and then taking a cut of the margin but here nobody was adding any value. The distributor was buying it from the brand then selling it to a dealer, the dealer would then sell it to retailer, the retailer would then sell it to the consumer and they were all just adding margins. So we said okay there seems to be an opportunity to disrupt this. We didn't know that it was going to get this big. We only knew that we wanted to try this and we were fortunate enough to be here today. We are now going to get a little deeper like from 2016 when you started to now. How have your revenues increased and how has your brand saliency in the market increased and how have you been able to build all this up in such a short span of time? I'll answer the revenue first and second the brand. In the revenue side the year one was about 6 crore, year two was about 27 crore, year three 81 crore, year four 199 crore and year five 415 crore, 415 crore. So we have steadily grown two to three eggs every year and the main focus of the company has always been to deliver good quality products at affordable price points. So can we support the middle class folks in India because that's where we all grow up from, that's where we're all from. So can we enable them to have a beautiful home, an aesthetic home, an ergonomically designed home, a scientifically designed home but at an affordable price point. They should not have to go to a local unbranded store just because the big brands are all very expensive. So that's the dream. On the brand side, long ago we realized that we do not have the marketing budgets to play in the traditional game of just television, radio and print. That was the old world and fortunately a lot of external factors also supported this. For example, the rise of Google and Facebook to enable deeper targeting. Secondly, the ability to run video ads on YouTube and so forth. And thirdly, the proliferation of mobile internet in the country and very, very inexpensive smartphones enabled a large part of India to be internet savvy. So all these three things came together at around the same time when we were trying. So we've been also fortunate in terms of timing. So what we did in terms of building brands aliens was always to focus on ROI driven marketing. Even when we do top of the funnel, we try to keep an eye on the ROI. And more importantly, we said we will not play the budget game. We will play the value added content game, which means can every piece of my content, can every piece of my advertising add value to the consumer's life? Can we earn the privilege of their time if they're spending that 20 seconds to view an ad? Or if they're spending those four to five minutes to view a funny piece of content? Can we add value where something they would feel that, hey, I learned something and I was entertained. So that was the dream. So we said we will always put content as the hero brand in the back and add value to people's lives. That is when it is going to become share worthy and people will love it. So you look at all of our viral campaigns, I think you'll see that one factor. Media you initially started working with and who helped you on this vision that you want to create good content that adds value. Sure. I think there have been a lot of partners throughout our journey, but consistently we've had spring marketing capital, our creative agency. Secondly, we've had Essence, a group M entity for our media bindings. And thirdly, we've a lot of our brand performance and other marketing is also done through Logic serve. So these are the three agencies who have been partners with us. And prior to this, we also worked with Gen Y Medium. So these are in the last six years or so we've worked with these partners in a major way. As you mentioned that when you started you then already have big marketing budgets to push the brand forward. Has it changed now or are you still have a tight hand over your budgets towards the marketing side? As we've raised funding, so we are we raised our series C just about three months ago. Yes. So as we've raised funding, the common misconception is that oh we have raised funding so we need to draw up money. But thankfully our DNA of saying solve a problem first, use money only to put rocket fuel behind the solution. That has always been our DNA and to this day it's the same. We don't throw money or people at the problem. We say, can we apply our minds to it? Can we look at the data? Can we look at analysis? Can we look at best practices? Can we look at case studies? After all of this, we will find a solution that works for us. And when you do find a solution, there's nobody more aggressive in spending than us. But we don't start the solutioning with money because that can take you in the wrong direction as a company. But do you have like say some percentage of your overall revenues? Yes, we don't look at it as percentage of revenue because again you will not find the right comparable as a startup. Say who do you compare against and say it should be x% of your revenue because we are path breakers and you don't have a direct comparable because traditional companies operate in a different P&L. And in startups and new age companies, there is no direct comparison. So what we do is we look at at what level do we want to keep our CAC and cost per order, cost of acquiring a new customer and cost per order at what threshold can our P&L support? And then within that, be very aggressive. For example, we always keep the cost of acquiring the customer at under 8 to 9% of the selling price. So that's a very, very powerful threshold. And that means we will have a very healthy P&L. So those kinds of card rails is what we put rather than say a percentage of revenue and then that's your budget cost per. We don't think like that. That's quite interesting. And so obviously digital must be leading the marketing game for you in terms of media. But apart from that, what all mediums, traditional or mixed out of home radio, what all mediums are you present on and what's the effective strategy for each of these various mediums? Like how do they help you in acquiring the right consumer at the right touch point? So as you know very well Mansi, the attribution is a big problem in our industry. You do not find credible software, credible tools or your own internal methodologies to clearly attribute which platform was successful in top of the funnel, which was successful in middle of the funnel and which one finally converted at the bottom of the funnel. So the way we approach this problem is to say that we will have different goals for different mediums and we try and use our previous data and use our data science teams expertise to pull together insights on what has worked and what has not worked. So to go back to your original question, we have never gone on television till now. And radio and print has been sporadic. So once a year or so during a festival period or a big sale event and so forth, we participate. But otherwise we've not. So a large, large part of our spending has been digital. So there again, on the top of the funnel, we always look at brand lift, we look at brand track, we look at the quality of the cost of lower bottom of the funnel conversions. So when we are bringing a customer from the top of the funnel by doing X targeting for Y demographic in Z location, how is the bottom of the funnel performing for them versus other cuts and so forth. So we, although we don't track top of the funnel spends with conversion, because the objective is to bring brands aliens, we at the end of the year try to link it saying if the customer heard about us here, are they having the right message being registered in their minds? Do they even remember that the message was delivered? And finally, when they are thinking about buying a product in our category of so far, mattress, dining table, wardrobe, whatever it might be, anywhere in the next three to six months, are we at least in the top two or three in the consideration set? Are they even thinking about us when they are searching for their products? Are they even considering us as wait fit as a destination? So that's how we look at the spends between top, middle and bottom of the funnel. All of these data mining and observation, you have some third party or third party partners with you for this data? No, we have our internal data science team. So we have built our own dashboards. We look at the data on our own and form insights also on our own. What is the repeat percentage? Where are the repeat people coming from? Where did they hear about us? Where are the brand new customers coming from? Which platforms? What cost point? How much did a view of a video cost? How much did a new subscriber addition cost? Because we don't buy subscribers. They like the content and then they subscribe on their own. So how much did that cost? So we have all of these built in-house using our data science team who work closely with our technology team. Do you have an internal creative team as well or you are completely depending on the agency? We have internal creative team which shares responsibilities with the creative agency but a lot of the strategic discussions are done by our brand team with the creative agency and the execution work is split between the agency as well as our in-house team. As you mentioned earlier during the interaction that most of your campaigns have that vital capability where you put the content first. One I particularly remember because it was also very recent, the Kumbh Karan campaign that happened. Can you give me a little more insight into that? Like what was the idea? How did it strike you and the sort of response that you have been getting for that particular one? Sure. I'll give you two three examples and then you'll be able to relate what I say with Kumbh Karan better. So in 2020 when the wave one hit us, we didn't know what kind of disease this was, COVID. So there was a lot of anxiety, lockdown and so forth. So we did a series called Open Letters and in Open Letters we just had people ranting about things that were bothering them at that time. So we had a husband's video of how he was fed up of washing dishes, a bachelor creeping about missing hotel food, a bachelor telling his domestic help saying that take care of yourself, you don't need to come because lockdown is better we save. So different people from different walks of life. There again the brand took a back seat. Then when there was wave two we had a campaign with Sonu Sood where we said Sab Ki Ghar Ki Baath Hai. Which means it wasn't the government, it wasn't the medical fraternity. Nobody can do it alone. So the biggest hell that can happen is through your own citizenry. Can you help your neighbor? Can you help your colleague? Can you help your friend? Whether it is food or medicine or just being there. So things like that is what we've done and Kumbh Karan also have followed the same DNA which is can we show that we can celebrate Hindu mythology which is Indian mythology. And from there take a character that is very well known for sleep and build a lot of concepts around it. And it had almost become a Tana. So we wanted to turn it on its head and say that hey, it's actually good to value your sleep. And we turned it around and made that the narrative and we had a whole set of films where Kumbh Karan is testing our mattresses. And he is saying that approved by Kumbh Karan. He was giving a stamp of approval. And post that we had this idea of creating a chief sleep officer profile on LinkedIn with Kumbh Karan's photo and for his whole biography and so on and so forth. That went crazy viral. And then we did the ad films as an addition on that. So that finally took off because by that time the base had been baked. So their whole thing is the message has been you need to value your sleep and we are going to celebrate people who value their sleep. That was the underlying thought process of how Kumbh Karan was conceptualized between our brand team and our main line creative agency. And then the execution was all these methods LinkedIn, Twitter, then content films, then ad films. Great. Again, coming back to the point you mentioned that you are also a contest the hero of your marketing activities. And digital right now is a very, very crowded platform. It's not just brands like yours who are talking to the consumers, but individual creators and then they have turned influences and they are talking a lot more creating a lot more in that sense. Like, do you feel a constant pressure of, coming up with that stand out idea all the time or just trying to get viral or maybe get the right eyeballs? So how do you deal with all of that? Actually, we don't take pressure because the whole ecosystem has changed. Earlier, you had to do a three month study with somebody like Nielsen or IMRB, get the one single consumer inside, then do concept and rate testing over the next two, three months, then produce it in the seventh month, then launch it in the eighth month and then run that creative for the next two years. This is your conceptualization to shoot to release is barely three to four weeks. So if you miss something, it's okay. You can always catch something else. But if you are not authentic to the brand, then you will seem fake. That's when people notice that they'll feel that, oh, this brand is just forcefully trying to fit itself on a wave that is currently viral. So that's why we stay away from that pressure and say whether it is viral or not, whether it is going to get crazily, a lot of eyeballs or not. The focus is can we look at the two lenses of is it adding value to people's lives? And is it something that we want to say as a brand? If it's intersecting, then we will do it. And fortunately for us, we've had more hits than misses. So Bhadmeja 2020, then Sher Matban, all crazy things. It was playing on everybody's mind. We just verbalized it. So yeah, that's the approach we don't. If we feel that we have to follow others, usually that is not a good barometer for a successful cancer. Makes sense. Also the sort of category that you are in, you know, Matt says it's like a one-time purchase and for a long time, the consumer might not come back. So can you explain me like you don't have to just stay connected to the consumer who had brought your methods maybe six years ago and maybe planning to buy another one in four years time, but also constantly get new consumers. And as you said, your acquisition threshold, you have maintained it quite low. So how do you go about it? Like I mentioned earlier, Mansi, we have branched out into complete home solutions now. So on a monthly basis, nearly 35% of revenue is non-matress related. So people come and buy sofas, wardrobes, bedsheets, pillows and product catalog has also been very thoughtfully designed. If you think about it, a bedsheet is purchased every six to nine months. A different type of blanket is purchased once a year. So if you're in Delhi, like you were joking earlier, you need a very thick blanket. If you're in Mumbai or Chennai, you need a small thin AC blanket. And people like new designs, people like new thicknesses, new feels and textures on their skin. And we've launched beanbags, we've launched recliners. So when you think about Waitfit, we want you to think about home solutions, that everything for your home is there. And so the burden of bringing back customers is not residing only with the marketing or growth team. The burden is shared with the product catalog team, the merchandising team, the product production team. So the more we are able to think on the user's needs, create the problems and then market them well, then the cycle completes. So we don't think of it as, oh, this person has purchased mattress, how do I bring him back for a bedsheet? We think of it as, if a person is thinking of this, buying this, browsing this, how can we add value to them through our messages, target funnel, drip marketing, and so on and so forth. That's how we think. That's great, that's great. So are we expecting a few more additions to your product catalog in this financial year as well? Yes, Fancy, every month we are adding new products. In the categories that we're already present, we're adding more designs. For example, in the beds category itself, people want upholstered bed or a hydraulic lift bed for storage, a side drawer bed, a teak bed. So they need to market to varieties. So in the categories we are present, we're adding more SKUs. And in many categories, we are entering them for the first time. So just three months ago, we did not have the recliners and it's already a hot selling product. People love our recliners. So those are the kinds of things where we are constantly entering more and more categories in home furnishing, home decor, and anything related to setting up your home. Those categories we are all going to be presented. And if you talk specifically about brands or categories like mattresses or so far the bed covers, people are also looking for antimicrobial or antiviral solutions especially from the past two years. So are you in that space or how do you see yourself approaching that space in the coming time? I'm sorry to say this, but no product can be antiviral or antimicrobial for despite usage. The one thing that products can do is to be supportive of being antimicrobial, supporting of being antiviral, which means when it is washed, when it is treated with a particular type of detergent, treated with a particular type of cleanser, can it support that and can it be remaining to be a antimicrobial or antiviral properties? Can it retain those? That is the extent to which any product can activate. Anybody who claims and says that you buy my bed sheet and for two years it will remain antiviral, it's probably not valid because people use it, sleep on it, sneeze on it, cough on it, so you cannot say that. So that's how we look at it, that treat it for antetermite, antimicrobial, antiviral and so forth as part of the production process. And then when they use it, retain those properties as much as possible. That's what we all just talked about. Can I ask a question? How are you seeing the year 2022 for yourself or the brand and what sort of marketing and distribution and sales strategies you have in place for the year? What kind of goals are you chasing? So for marketing, I think we want to just do what has always been our DNA, add value to consumers, entertain them so that we will do more of that. In terms of distribution and sales, we are already present on our own website and marketplaces and our own website is the largest channel but we are also expanding into the offline channel. Our experience centers have been very good successes till now so we are modernizing them, bringing them closer to the city and so on and so forth. So you will see a lot more of marketing for our offline experience centers also in the coming years. And products, of course, we are excited about all the new launches that are happening. Last question to you would be for people who have just started their businesses or are already in the market but might not have got that right kind of marketing strategy on board as of now. How important is the right kind of marketing and how can a brand figure out its own voice or its own space in such a crowded space? Then there is a saying that you need to escape competition through authenticity, which means if you are faking it, customers notice it, investors notice it and your own team doesn't notice it and they won't believe in what they are doing. So a good authentic brand voice comes from three sources. The first one is what the founders and senior leadership thinks about the brand. What do they live and die for? In our case that is customer experience. We don't want to have an unhappy customer. So we go to great lengths to keep them happy. The second voice is of the customers itself. What are customers saying on your reviews, on video testimonials, on phone calls and so on and so forth. Because in this day and age when feedback is very open, they are telling good and bad things about you everywhere. Social media, Amazon, PepperFry, Shipkart, they're writing about you. So can you listen, read, analyze? Then you'll know what are they saying and why are they liking or disliking you. And the last thing is all your team members. You might have 100 team members or in our case we have more than 1500 people. So what are they thinking about? When they think about, they can come to work. What is it that is driving them? So if you can listen to these three sources, your brand's voice will come on its own. You don't need to create it artificially. So that's been our belief. Well said, Chaitanya. And I guess that's it from my side for today. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about the brand or the coming year, anything that you think the viewers might, viewers would like to know? I think we are very, very excited about completing the complete home solutions range, which means all categories from decor to curtains to carpets to kitchen and tableware. So just our dream is to build, make fit as a legacy that lives beyond us, has found us. And when customers think about anything for their home, they should think about wake fit, at least as part of their research and say that, hey, it's a company that I trust. I want to look at it there once. I think that's the dream. So I hope the audience also trusts us that much and believes in us that much. Thank you so much, Chaitanya. Thank you. Wait and direct. Thank you. Bye.