 host Laura Reeves. And you guys, I cannot tell you how excited I am about this conversation. Lita Judge is an author. She is a world famous author and illustrator of children's books. And Lita is one of my very oldest friends dating back to my speech and debate days in high school. And we reconnected on the internet and I've been following her books and I love them and we will make sure that you guys can love them too. But today we are going to talk about Lita's newest book, you guys. Hello, baby. So Lita has drawn and written the most beautiful, elegant book for children about our dogs, the history of our dogs, some of the things that they do for us. So Lita, welcome. I'm so excited to have you join us. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and to reconnect with you. This is just absolutely wonderful. It's perfection. It is perfection. So, okay, in our world here at Pure Dog Talk, we have what we call the 411. So give us a very brief background about your history with dogs and how you came to write this book. And we're going to delve into a few other things a little bit later. So let's start with this. Wonderful. So I had dogs. I was born into a family of dogs. I think we had three very large dogs when I was born, a Malamute and two Chesapeakes. Yeah. And then my favorite of those of the Chesapeakes was a dog named Kier. And my family, we lived in some really, really remote areas out in the woods because my dad was a soil scientist and we moved a lot and a lot of the time we were far from town and my mom would sometimes have to leave us in the woods to go to town to get supplies. And she always trusted that we were safe because Kier would guard us like a mama bear. I mean he was just like my protector. And my mom always told me that the first word I learned wasn't ma or pa or dad or anything like that. It was sit. And I told Kier to sit for about six months. He patiently sat. And then he decided he didn't need to listen to me anymore. But he could actually make him. Yeah. It was a patient's soul that put up with me and protected me and my companion. And we lived, my family, we lived in a trailer sometimes. Sometimes we lived in a car. We had a house that was destroyed by a hurricane. And so we were kind of on the road for a little for some of that time. And my parents slept on a platform in the van and my sister sat in the middle seat. And I slept on the iron floor of the van. So it was pretty cold. But I had Kier. And he was, you know, he was the love of my life when I was four. And I had always had dogs until I honestly became a children's book illustrator. And the reality of a children's book illustrator is you spend a lot of time on the road. And I do have pets. But you know, dogs, they just need. You have to get a pet mouse I have ever seen. And I am not a mouse person. And I'm just saying pantalime man is pretty special. He's usually in my sleeve. Yeah, he's adorable. So I don't have done some amazing, amazing books. Some of your books, the dinosaur books and the, um, oh, the story of Mary Frankensteins. Oh, yes, Mary's monster. Oh my gosh, that's incredible. What brought you and said I have to do a book about the history of dogs? You know, what's more surprising is that I didn't write it sooner, I think. Um, okay, here you can see. I'm not, I'm kidding. I have three of them. They might come in and out today. Um, yes, I mean, like, why didn't I write this sooner is, is more of a question. I think that one of the reasons I, I, I have so many interests, you know, I come from a background where I studied geology, I worked on dinosaur digs. Therefore I've written dinosaur books. I was raised with ornithologists, my grandparents. So I've done a lot of books about animal behavior and nature. And I wrote a book called The Wisdom of Trees, which is about how trees communicate and work together. And so I think I have like all these eclectic interests. I also love to travel to Europe and I love to create fantasy. So I do a lot of fictional stories that are young and whimsical for kids. And I remember it was actually the second day of lockdown. I was supposed to be on book tour for about three months. And I got nine days in and then, you know, got chewed home, you know, quickly from San Antonio, Texas. And I thought, what am I going to do now? And it was the second day and I thought, oh, I'm going to do that dog book. And I think the reason I hadn't written it sooner was because it was just a massive amount of research. It covers 40,000 years of the history of dogs. And there's so much information about how did we domesticate them? Did they self-domesticate, you know, stacks of books to read. And I felt like I had the quiet space to just really dive into this. Because I knew that this project was going to be a total labor of love. It's my second longest book that I've done. And I just, I wanted to do it well when I was going to do it. You know, I got to research medieval times and prehistoric times. And what was what was our relationship to dogs in first century China? And how did dog serve in war? And how did they, what do therapy dogs do? And, you know, all this vast amount of information I knew I just really needed a nice chunk of time to devote to it. So the time is right. It's perfect. And now for my listeners, this is not exclusively purebred. There is a doodle mentioned. But there are beautiful drawings of many of our purebred dogs. So talk to us a little bit through that. Because this is very, as I call it, junkie public focused, right? Yeah, it's, I really wanted to cover as much as I could about dogs in all its forms. And I, to be honest, there was a lot of pressure like which dogs do I cover? Because as a writer, I have a lot of readers who are passionate about their dogs. And I have a lot, you know, my pets are always muses in my books. Everybody knows my pet mouse pan. And a lot of people know my pet parrot Beatrix. And they know Willow who just walked by because they all have their own stories. And I knew if I was working on a dog book and I post regularly on Instagram and Facebook and places, I knew everybody would say, use my dog, use my dog. And I had so many volunteers for muses. And I was like, which dogs do I include? And I try to include as many as I could. Every dog that appears in this book is actually, there's a page. If I can find it. That one page is amazing. Yes. And every dog that appears in this page and throughout the illustrations are dogs of friends who got to pose for the book. And I feel so bad now because there's friends like locally who are like, you didn't use my dog. You didn't use my dog. I'm just saying. I did my best. And I really wanted to choose not only some popular ones, but also some that we haven't heard of. And also I wanted to celebrate a wide range of different dogs because they're, you know, they all provide different places in our hearts. And some of them work and some of them are adorable lap dogs and some of them, you know, have temperaments that make them perfect for therapy dogs. And so I just wanted to celebrate as many dogs as I could. I love it. What was your favorite dog to draw? My favorite, you know, the guy in the cover. And you know, when I did this covers are amazing because I think of myself as a person who really focuses on expressions and gestures with all of my work, whether it's fiction or historical. And so dog, working with dogs is perfect for me because they more than any other creature other than humans have so much expression in their faces. I mean, it's truly remarkable. And there would be times I would just be chills as I drew a dog because you see all this love just being completely directed at you. And I probably drew this guy 30 times because sometimes he was too serious and sometimes he was too goofy. And sometimes he was sad looking and, you know, whatever mood I was feeling, I could and my editor kept saying, he's not quite there. He's almost there because we just wanted to, you know, get him as we wanted to get that expression of when you come home and you see your dog and he's looking at you like, where you been? Why weren't you with me? Right. Right. Always. Every time. And so what was your favorite thing that you learned in your research? I mean, you spent a couple years on this. Oh my gosh. Oh, there's so much. My favorite thing. Well, the thing I was the most curious about was how did we get from wolf to dog? Right. And that was just so mind blowing. Like how does that transition happen? And it was so interesting because I had to talk to different scientists and, you know, I used to be a geologist and I worked on dinosaur digs. So I knew this. You go to a conference and people like have these head to head to head classes. Everybody has this. Yes. It was like this. And it's true with, you know, how we're dogs, did we domesticate them? Did they self domesticate? You know, the consensus seems to be more and more they self domesticated and that they had the social skills because they work as pack animals and they understand working together that they that they were able to make that leap in working with us. So I think that was the thing I was really fascinated. The other thing I was blown away with is that dogs were prescribed as treatment as early as the Middle Ages. If you had a stomach ache, hold the dog. And we didn't understand why, you know, now we know it lowers your core zone, lowers your blood pressure, releases oxycotin, oxytotin. And I mean, we know why now, but we didn't understand that why then. And yet we knew it worked. You know, we knew that that relationship with our dogs was that incredible that it's actually healing. And luckily healing for the dog as well, we have found. Yes. And you know, I think one of the most interesting, possibly one of the most interesting podcast interviews I have done was a fellow who runs something called the Human Animal Bond Research Institute and actually does exactly studies that exactly. Oh, cool. Very cool. It was just fascinating talking to him and some of their, I'll link it, you guys, if you haven't listened to it, you really need to go back because it was really amazing. We are at the Kentucky Anna cluster of dog shows and I'm talking to Dr. Karen Potter. She is a German wire hair pointer breeder, Trupanian breeder, and she's also a veterinarian. And Karen's going to talk about what Trupanian means to her as a breeder and also what it means for her as a veterinarian. When I became a Trupanian breeder and I sent my letters out, I knew that they were going with 30 days of coverage had one of my owners have an emergency with them. That's comforting to me as a breeder to know that they can get help. As a veterinarian, there are many cases where we have to make decisions on how to treat things based on financial restraints. And when the financial restraints come into play, we can't always do absolutely everything for that pet. So if my puppies are covered, at least for those first 30 days, I know that if they get sick, they can get the best possible care. So here's where we're going to transition just a little bit. So you've written this amazing book, you've written a bunch of amazing books, but I knew you when we were, what, 15, 14, and we were in the speech and debate program at Roseburg High School and Roseburg Oregon. And we had our beloved Dr. Sturs, our teacher. And when I knew Lita back then, she was the single most shy human being I have ever met in my entire life. And I think we became friends because I was so the opposite. Absolutely. And Lita was, and I know she's going to blush at this, but Lita was so shy, she could not go ask for a packet of ketchup at McDonald's. This is not a joke. This is why she had me as a friend. So I would go get her ketchup for her french fries. Right. And so I see this transformation to this amazing, self-contained, composed woman who is a world-famous author and illustrator and all of those things giving huge presentations to huge audiences. And I see the connection for listeners who I just was reading somebody asking how do I, how do I not be worried about the judge being mean to me? How do I concentrate on my job? How do I, you know, this stage fright thing that you and I encountered a very long time ago that many people are just encountering today? So I would love if you, my friend, would share some of the things that worked for you. Well, you know, I'm so clever talking about this because, you know, it's something that I think is almost universal stage fright. And the thing I've learned about is how, even despite the fact that it's universal, is how much of it is, I don't want to sound callous, but unnecessary. We put it on ourselves and it's not others. It's we putting them on ourselves. And yes, when we met, I was so pathologically shy. And I think I just absolutely admired your courage. And, you know, the reason we met was I took that class because growing up in such remote areas, I hadn't had the social opportunities that some younger kids had. And so, you know, I was just ossified into this shy way of being. And I wanted to break out of that. And so I took this speech class to force myself on the, you know, on stage. And I think I learned a ton in that class, but I've been so fortunate as an author because it has really, being a children's book author is just such a wonderful way to get in front of an audience because you are in front of the most likable, loving audience on the planet. I mean, you're in front of 400 kindergartners and they think you hang the sun, you know. I remember the first day I got asked to speak. I had no idea you had to do public speaking as an author. I took the class because I thought I was going to be a scientist and I knew that as a scientist I was going to need to get up and debate something. And I took the class. You were going to be a paleontologist. I remember it so well. You were absolutely dead set. Absolutely. And, you know, I did that for a couple of years and it was amazing. And then I realized, you know, what I really wanted to do was draw dinosaurs for a living. And so I wrote children's books about dinosaurs instead and found my true passion. But it was so great as a children's book author because I remember when somebody said, are you ready for school visits? And I thought, school visits? I thought I got to stay home and, you know, draw and write by myself. What's this going on tour and speaking to tens of thousands of kids every year? And what I learned, no matter how terrifying you are, the audience is there for an experience. And it's on you to create that experience for them. And if you do that, they just love you. And I think it's so true with, I would assume, with what you do as well. Anybody who's in that audience is a passionate, loving, kind, empathetic audience because you share this bond, this love affair with canines. And whenever you step up in front of an audience where you have this shared passion, I just remind myself it's just going to be a love fest. I mean, you don't need to have the nerves. I still, to this day, have nerves every time I step up and then I have this immense elation and joy. And I'm so thankful because I find I went from an incredibly shy person to somebody who just loves people and feels so grateful for all the connections. And it's because, you know, we have this unique experience to talk about things or in your case, perform and show, try to talk to its best, you know. And I think if you can just take a deep breath and remind yourself that everybody there is for the same reason that they love this so much, it actually, you can kind of turn that on its head and realize this is like a celebration. It's a time of how often do we humans get to connect that, you know, incredibly strongly with other humans basically because you've all decided to walk into that room and, you know, share that experience together. Right. And, you know, unfortunately dog shows are not filled with kindergarteners because it would be so much better if they had learned the, you know, share and be nice and don't say mean words. You know, it's not always the safest audience, frankly, but I think kindergarteners could be, let's say, very frank. I think, you know, the thing that I take away from you is your joy. And I think when we find joy in what we do, whether we're winning or losing or succeeding or failing or whatever, we are finding joy in what we do. That joy is contagious. It is contagious to your dog. It is contagious to the judge. It is contagious to the competitors. Joy by itself is contagious. Yeah, it really is. And you said it exactly. Just this is why I missed you right before you even started saying it. And it's that joy thing. And, you know, when you sit there with a dog, my gosh, I mean, these creatures are devoted to us and they want so badly for us to love and accept them. And I think, you know, when I've spoken with my parents, my kid, she's right off camera, but she's right here. You know, they've had to do book signings with me and it's not necessarily their favorite thing to do, but I, it's like your responsibility also when you have an animal at your side to make them feel comfortable too. And sometimes if I just focus on that or to make the kindergartners feel comfortable or a room full of teachers. And I find if I'm focusing on trying to make others feel comfortable, they just turn right around and make you feel comfortable too. It's a gift, you know? I think right there, that one is so amazing. Get outside of your own head. Yes. If you can absolutely focus outside of yourself, don't think about me. Am I blushing? Is my hair wrong? You know, did I walk in toilet paper? Whatever. That's not what we're concentrated on. We're concentrated is my dog concentrating on me? Is the judge looking at me? Right? And so those things, I think are so critical to success. I mean, God knows, all the years I did this, I showed dogs professionally for 25 years. Yeah. Pretty high levels. And they're still that first walk-in-the-ring gulp. And then you settle. Right? Yeah. You know, another thing I learned too, a lot of times I'm giving a speech to adults who want to be writers. And it's like you said, you know, you're worried about your hair, you're worried about, you know, is your outfit right? And it's so silly that we do this because nobody is thinking about that. They're worried about, did I leave the stove on? Did I, is my husband going to find the dinner I left in the fridge for him? I mean, I'm tired and the drive is long. I mean, everybody has their stuff. They just bring their stuff. But one thing I've learned is that we're all seeking passion in our lives. We're all seeking inspiration. We're all seeking validation. And if you put that out there, you get it back in spades, tenfold. And you know, it's just such a beautiful exchange of gifts. And if we can focus on that, rather than our hair or this, people are so, they're so kind when we give them opportunities to be kind. You know, if we give, they give right back. And I think if we focus on that, you know, it makes stepping up, you're still nervous, but you're also kind of giddy with excitement because it's just such a gift to be. Well, and I'm there with my best dog, right? Like I have a young dog here at the house right now. I retired five years ago from handling. And I really, I had kind of burned out you know how that goes, right? A little burning. And I've been really focused on other stuff. And I just really haven't been all that excited about showing a dog. I showed his mom, I finished her at the National. It was cool. But it didn't like fill me with huge anticipation and joy, right? Like it was like, okay, that's great, whatever. And I see this young dog, her son, and I'm like, oh my God, like he's really it, right? And so, and so you start building that, that excitement and that connection and that all of the things that you're going to do together and you, and you create this journey in your mind. And, and I really do love what you just said that people are always going to be kind if you give them the opportunity. And I find in my world that may or may not always be the case, but I think it is more liable to be the case if we offer the opportunity. Absolutely. I mean, there's always going to be that, you know, I think the thing in those cases to remember too is it's not you, it's them, you know, it's when things to go awry, you know, I know that child little kid in me always wanted to please, always wanted to have everybody be happy. It was terrified. And the older you get, you realize, you know, some people also, you know, you can't move them and you just have to walk past it, but you don't have to, you don't have to take that energy on, you know. You're there doing your thing, showing that beloved dog, sharing it with most of the audience who's, you know, going to feeling insanely passionate and if we focus on that, you know, there's a lot of joy and goodness to be, you know, at hand to lean on. I think that that is the biggest thing. And I talk about this all the time on the podcast, right? We build community. We have a group of people. We build community. I think that's really important, right? You have a community of authors. You have your editors. You have community around you. And before I forget, I do have to tell this other one other story that I think is just the coolest thing that I've ever known about any human being I've ever met. You met your husband. So listeners, I need you to hear this because this is the coolest story ever and all y'all that are out there sad and mad and whatever, I need you to hear lead a story because if there's one coolest way to meet your life partner, this is it. It is a pretty cool way to fall in love. I have to say we were pretty lucky. So my husband, Dave, he was my lab partner when I was a geologist, I had a lab partner and we would spend, we were, they called geology student lab rats because we just spent all the time in lab and my roommate, my lab partner's roommate was named Dave, but I didn't know his name was Dave. He just showed up in lab one day and I think it must have been before finals because it was about three in the morning and we were tired and punchy, taking a break and I said, I want to ride my bike across the country someday. And this kind of cool looking dude in the back who had been quiet up until then said, I want to do that too. And I said, I'm serious. I really want to do this. And he said, well, let's do it. And I said, you want to make a pact? And he said, let's do it. And I said, okay, well, my name's Lita and his name was Dave. And we, Lita, let's ride across the country on bicycle. Let's ride across the country. My name is Lita. So we agreed and that I think it was like four weeks or so before school ended and then we had to separate because I was working on a, on a paleontology dig and he had to go to New York, which was his home. We were in Oregon and he went home to New York to earn the money. And I was working on a dig. So no mail, no phones, nothing. I was out in the middle of nowhere in the Badlands wondering if this guy was going to show up. And we had a destination rendezvous and a date. And the night before I got to the rendezvous place and I had his number and we called to confirm like what his flight number would be and when I would pick him up and he called and we talked very briefly and I hung up the phone. I thought, hmm, apparently he hung up the phone and thought the same thing because I'd like to say we were engaged by New York but kind of by the time we hit the Idaho border we knew we were. So we were across country 3300 miles in 30 days. And yep, we've been together ever since. We've had all the same speed. So I love it. I, I just have luck. I mean, you told me that story a billion years ago. I think the last time I saw you in person was you told me that story. So it's been a minute. But I just, you guys, I bring you people every now and then or sort of outside our world to give us some perspective. And I think Lita brings us some amazing perspective. Thank you. Yeah. It was really fun. I remember when we got home from that trip, everybody was like, what? We're like, trust me, we just wrote 3300 miles a day. We're engaged. It's okay. We'd like $5 a day for food. And we were like starving together, peddling through hail, peddling through heat, peddling through everything. We knew we were good. I'm pretty sure if you can get through that together, you definitely set yourself up for a future. Oh my God. All right, you guys. So here's my, here's my suggestion. Everybody, see if I can do this without getting in front of my face. Hey, look at me. I'm like a camera genius. If you have kids in your life, 100% worth it. Absolutely love it. Lita, thank you so incredibly much. I really, really appreciate your time. Oh, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for having me. And oh my gosh, now I've got to get on a plane and get out to Oregon to see you. Yeah, or go listen to Pure Dog Talk because the same thing. It's basically the same thing. All right. Thank you, Lita. All right. Thank you. Bye.