 Good afternoon and welcome back to the Touchline on Y25. My name is Maxwell Wasik. We're going to speak about the way forward regarding Kenyan football and of course joining me are two gentlemen who form an integral part as far as Kenyan football is concerned. One of them is Simon Sepemulama, former Kenyan international and he also featured prominently for some local clubs led by FC Leopards and Mother United. I don't mention FC Leopards, I know you beat me. Immediately we leave this studio and you know Ali Amur, a man who has been serving in FKF transition committee in charge of leagues and competition. Good to see you gentlemen, starting with you Sepemulama. How are you doing? It's been a while. Good to see you. How are you doing? I'm good. You keeping well? Always. I can see. Ali Amur, the last time you were here I think it was two weeks ago. Right now you are mandated as people in charge of running Kenyan football in interim capacity came to an end yesterday. Is there a vacuum? First thanks for having me again two weeks. Ya, I don't think there is a vacuum. There will always be a plan. I mean the government can never miss a plan in terms of putting things together and fixing up challenges. So I'm not sure if there's going to be a vacuum. I'm not sure there's going to be a vacuum. Sepemulama, from the perspective of a person who's waited playing football to try and live and put meal on the table. Right now as you speak there is no much of activity. What do you make of the sport and what it means for a player? The lack of activity for the soccer players is discouraging because this is your livelihood and we have some people who are involved in football who let's say they call themselves club owners. So they will take advantage of this and if you are a player they will tell you the league is not going on. We are not getting any sponsorship. So there's no way we'll pay you any money. And you're going running for months and even if there's money it's coming from my pocket so I appreciate whatever it is I'm giving to you. So it's very discouraging and if I put myself in their shoes I'm always looking forward to when will the leagues and the competitions begin so that I can actually be able number one to put food on my table and be able to take care of my bills as an individual and as a family man. But personally you featured for some professional clubs overseas like Ismailia of Egypt. Is that what happened abroad? Like you know when there is no activity a team doesn't pay you because you're not offering something in return. That's a bad comparison because you know we have countries and continents that we can say they are developed. They are more advanced in terms of football and sports and the respect they have for the sports and people involved in sports, the ethics and everything. So if you have a contract we have a situation like this people do honor their contracts. You know if you get injured and it looks like it's a long term injury and you are six months to the end of your contract they pay you and say okay it was good doing business with you or we cannot have you anymore. So people honor those contracts in places where the respect and the advancement in the game is seen but you know we are talking about real situation here at home. People will take advantage of that and we have seen clubs that are doing that to players. Ali Amur talked to us about you know the accomplishments of the committee now that their mandate came to an end yesterday. What are the milestones? What can we talk about that has been achieved by you know General Moriso Yugi Lead Committee? Yeah, Maxwell as I'll be echoing the accomplishments I'll also emphasize for Kenyans to read the reports so they can actually understand because maybe on this show I'll just highlight a few of them but it's very important to get in details because it goes back, way way back of this issue and that's what Mulama also mentioned is here the person who is really getting affected is the player and that is a major stakeholder in football that unfortunately in Kenya they have been ignored. So generation after generation one of the accomplishment that I'll call out is we recommended players contract to be respected and to be made transparent all the way from the under 13 player that is good to under 15 under 17 because we've seen in our school days you're playing very good football, our clubs come and recruit you but you're not given a contract and because you have passion you feel happy you're playing for a bigger club. So there has to be a legal structure, a sports legal structure by the Ministry of Sports that is actually only focusing on players contract because that is huge and the players are many. That is one of our recommendations. The second recommendation is which is my passion is about digitalization of the entire football fraternity and when I say digitalization what do I mean? We want to know if by just a click of button coming how many team managers do we have in Kenya? What are their credentials? How many coaches do we have? How many referees do we have? How many players do we have and what is their age group? Why are we saying that because you'll find players are impacted by the age. They feel maybe I'm playing in division 2 but I'll be recruited as a professional player but nobody is telling them at a certain age you're absolute nobody wants you. So that dealer education about age group performing in league is very key and because that structure is not there that's why Munaama is coming up with his academy because there's no any other platform whereby a scout will come in and looking for an under 13. That's why you see all these academies are coming in to address that issue but if today there's a proper league structure with a segmented edge his academy will be in that league. So you see that is business that is commercialization and that is visibility for the player. Third thing that recommended is the league structures. You can't have a league where you have 127 teams. It just can't work. First the player has to rest. I mean even the referees officiating all this they have to be well trained. So it has to be a structured league and for you to have all these teams then it has to be distributed across the country. So by the time you're coming to the top league everybody has really actively compete. That's very key because you one league and you find a same platform of league let's say division 3 but they are 397. Adana 11. Adana 22. So they are not as per the FIFA regulation. We actually skip all the FIFA regulations because FIFA comes and just looks at what happened in the Federation administration but they don't have supervision of what happened below. And probably their priority main priority is the national team. Priority of FIFA is admin. Though FIFA has a lot if you go into FIFA portfolio in terms of training of team managers, training of how to manage league it's a lot. The question is as administrators do you utilize that a lot that timetable? For countries which utilize that they have started their own school. Today in Baisana you have your own group you want to be a team manager you log in pay you become a team manager and you are satisfied. That's like the kafni you can actually go in until the highest rank. So those structures need to be in place. That's on our community. The fourth recommendation that we actually put is women football. All KPL clubs must have a women football NIST. Now it's mandatory. So what should we ask our clubs ready with that? Because if you are qualifying on club licensing do you have a youth team? Do you have a women team? So our administrators in clubs are they ready to go in that mode? Because teams now are actually coming with that. And you've mentioned about critical points and I think one of them is about edge grade football and you know centers of excellence. And when you are talking about the two, Simon Sepe Mulami is an expert of the same because I understand he works in partnership with overseas organizations that offer quality education to young ones who exhibit passionate football talent and they are also academically oriented. And talking about the same, what has been the situation like because as you speak right now even you got academy yourself. Are they working in conformity with what is supposed to be in adherence to FIFA rules and standards? Let me call them youth clubs. Youth clubs? Yes. Right now you will find like my brother says, clubs and people in football at the grassroot level are trying to address that gap. So you will find certain areas of the country. I mean Nairobi so I'll talk about Nairobi. We'll try and mobilize a certain number of teams maybe 20 in a certain area and say let's have a youth team league where we have 12 teams. And spread that maybe we move to another region. Let's have a U9 league with 10 teams. Let's compete. Are they adherence to regulations as FIFA? Not certain. Are we trying to give an opportunity to kids to enjoy themselves, have fun and try to develop their God given talents? Yes, we are because some of us got the same opportunities. Without saying, ok FIFA or MSMR we do this. So if we hold back and say let us wait for somebody to tell us what FIFA wants so that we can implement the same. Number one will be being very unfair to the kids. Yes. Number one and will be denying them opportunities. So if the structure and the proposals and the policies are set right at least they'll find you moving. You know if we are now asked that starting today hands forth Nairobi we've split Nairobi into 16 parts and we want guys from Pangani up to Dandora to participate in this youth team league. Number one will not have any trouble finding the teams and number two all the teams would love to do that. Ok so for the youth teams for the young boys and girls that are at the bottom, I'm a grass root, people are trying to be as creative as they can so that they can get the opportunity for the kids. And for the most part it's voluntary and you can just see and feel the passion that is with the coaches and the guys who own the clubs and the kids. So it is tough because if you have let me say an FA or a branch in Nairobi branch that represent football in Nairobi and you need to affiliate and all that you don't expect necessarily money to be given to you. But since you're giving an opportunity to kids you expect at least soccer balls, ok, a set of cones, katona man, he and there, you know kids, amma even bibs. So if you have to be doing this every day and stuff like football you need to keep replenishing. You can always start with ten balls in January and end up with the same ten balls in December. So every month you need to put in a few more balls in there. So it has been tough for the guys at the bottom but we are resilient and we will keep going. Just wishing that everything turns out well for everyone. You mentioned about welfare of a player who is a paramount factor as far as growth and development of the game and how player contracts need to be honoured by the employers. As we speak right now we have about the KFW, Kenya footballers welfare association. I think amma am not certain about it. I don't know whether it's part of the same because it consists of former internationals led by their president James Tuma. As a FKF transition committee have you tried to collaborate with former players and working in partnership with those existing entities that advocate for player welfare? Ya, I think there are three bodies. You have the KFW, you have the legions, you have another one, KFW or something. KFW or KFW? We've had meetings with them. And what personally I told them or advised them say this is one of the strongest bodies you can ever have in a football fraternity. It's a football place in Kenya. Why am I saying so? Because it consists of present players and ex players. What they need to do is, at least the advice I gave them, they need to come together and put a structure. And because footballers, everybody had their own season and time, they need to start with tier. Let's say from 1970 to 1980, tier one. Now that is a totally different group. It will be tier one. Then 1980 to 1990, tier two. Up to where we are right now. So at that, if you look at those tiers, you will have legions, all players. So you have a tier consisting of the likes of Bobby O'Gorla, JJ Maske. Exactly. And the reason I'm saying that, so that anybody who is now in the 2022-2021 who may not remember a legend, he's not getting mixed with that discussion because that discussion is totally different. Then they have two bodies. The players who are active and the players who are non-active. And I told them they are bigger than TSE, bigger than a teacher's union. So if they come together and they'll have representatives in all the counties, because other players have gone back home, all the counties. So you have through a county or whatever the stream is, the football association or the football union for another county. If you want to see so and so here. Now under them, they'll have the legal department. Under them, we even started a program whereby for the former footballers, we are saying, can they be match homes? They are training programs and everything. So if a footballer has a problem with the administrator, this body is so strong that you cannot play around with it. It's happening in all other countries. But unless they come together. And then now they insist that insurance, because insurance is not only for the active player, also for the non-active player. All the time, and Mola Mola will tell you, most of the players who are now have gone back home sometimes cannot even afford 100-200 shillings for medical cover. NHI 500 a month. And what the labor that given to clubs you can't imagine. So they need to come together and form a strong group. And all of them have a good will. All of them have a good will. Just come together and just put those tears. So they need to embrace solidarity. Yeah, solidarity. And then say, these are here. Just amortize everything. Because somebody who is played in the 80s, you cannot mix him with somebody who is playing in the 20s. They will have issues. And all of them have played in national teams. The only need to understand is the role of footballer. But administration is something totally different from actually the active playing in the field. So we have actually advised them. It's also in the recommendations. And talking about the insurance scheme, I think all of us watched some story regarding one of the local players, Ezeke Lotoma, who featured for Kulindi Stars at some point. He's paralyzed and I think his football future has been brought to an end. I'm not sure, but obviously we wish him well whether he will play again because of the situation that he is facing. And if there was such a medical scheme in place, maybe we could have had some hope in him getting revived. Simon Sepemulama talking from that perspective of what players go through. Besides insurance scheme for the current crop of players who are actively involved in the game, which other mechanism should be put in place by the current FAA or the incoming regime to help address the plight of bowlers? If we leave the challenge we are talking about, if we leave it for the FAA alone, we will be being very unfair. This is a societal issue. So number one the entire society, number two the government, then we have the FAA and we have the clubs. Clubs were the employers now? Yes, I'll give you an example. I was playing for Mathare United and I got injured and insurance was not there so I had to take care of myself. If the society shows the same passion that they show when number one commenting and giving their views about the game, maybe Haramistaz plays Togo, everyone will be talking about the game and everyone is a coach and all that. If society gave the same passion in funding and contributing towards supporting clubs, the government the same, so county government and Nairobi does the same to clubs, county government in Western does the same. You'll find the players getting good payment. Because the funding in football, let's say football in this country is not good enough. So even with the insurance you're talking about, personally kama I didn't have enough funds without an insurer, then maybe I could be limping right now and give over crutches. So what I'm saying is it's not just the FAA, but the entire 60 kama a country, we need to number one really love the game, we need to have it passionately enough such that this is my club I'll go to the stadium and pay, I'll pay membership, I'm a corporate in Kenya, Pengine for example, Mimini equity bank, I will support with this much. But the money is not enough, even whatever the FAA does and the money is not there in the pockets of the players, I'm at the clubs, there's little that can happen. So I think we need to put in a little bit more money to the players, payment to players who want a cup, at least minimum wage for the players. In 2022 we have players who are getting paid 22,000 and they are the top league. 30,000 today, you're a top league player, you're even expected to play in the national team and go play pro. How will you make it in pro football, nutrition, diet, you cannot even eat the kind of meals that are expected to be consumed by the players. You cannot take care of yourself Pengine in recovery the same way until he gets there. So minimum wage at least in Kenya if he gets 150,000 lowest paid, what's the problem with that? So kama society, if we can show the same love, translate that kipesa so that there's money in the pockets of the players, pockets of the clubs, then even to reassure us like he says, a player cannot afford to pay for himself 200 bob, then we can now be, now we can be able to do that and we can be able to be talking about as a progressing kama country in football. Aliamur, it boils down to who? Regarding sepe's comments over sell sustainability of players so that we provide quality remuneration to them that will enable them to take good care of themselves including insurance scheme. We come back again to commercialization of clubs unless we commercialize fully our clubs then we're going to achieve all those points that Mulama has mentioned. One, if you're running a club you as an official of a club what is your aim? What's your target? Do you want to be an official just by name or official for selfish gains or an official that this club has to be taken from this level up to this level? Then the champions of the club do they give targets to the people who actually the administrators? Do they have marketing teams that all the time they are rushing with business plans to corporates? We have a huge following and the funds are passionate but even the funds are getting tired because they are passionate is being discouraged all the time not because of the players is because of the way the clubs are run so we have to go fully into commercialization and what is commercialization in football clubs? It's high time now clubs have a proper organogram where you have a chame you have a board and who is sitting on that board? At your free time go and google who sits on Bayern Munich's board you find the director of Adidas he said they are German telco these are people who when you see them or when you know that they are sitting there you as a fan you are confident that the money that you pay to the club first is secured What sorts of revenue do we need to drive to sustain clubs? How we constructed our march in a way that this season this is what we are unveiling to our clubs then how do you protect the player? We protect the player it's not only on the contract that contract has a lot of caps on it if he is going to be putting a jersey and maybe an Adidas shoe and Adidas saying me and Mulama we are signing a different contract so Mulama is a brand ambassador today in the country like many others but do those officials still recognize them as a brand ambassador because maybe indirectly there are so many kids out of Madare seeing him they got motivated you see now that is indirect income for the club that is gaining without him being active but if you go to other countries they are still active out of the field because one kid grew up and say Mulama is very disciplined and like to be like him so his brand is still being utilized then in the contract after a certain age how is he covered medically am I going to pay for the next 5 years 500 for him in terms of NHIF so that contract of the player has to be really protected then comes to remuneration now that is I think an elephant in the room players are getting paid handouts and I was almost interjecting when he was talking about the yards that they have taken during this transition period and you know some of those points and one of those points that I picked the bar is set too high when you are talking about club licensing and you say it is going to be mandatory if you have a club in the premium you have a women's team and you have a youth team and this is a club that can barely get a sponsorship what 10 million you know we have been hearing somebody say one of the big clubs gets 55 million per season you know that is not even enough but ok now how many clubs out of the 18 are getting anywhere close to that even half of that ok and then we have you need to have a women's team participate in a league and you need to have a youth team that you know having a youth team does not just mean you have kids running around but a lot of stuff is going on and even taking care of their school to some extent you know in places that really embrace and understand football and the importance of grooming these young kids you take care of their food that is how you come up with the cost of this player so to speak ok so he is 17 years old and he is going to Manchester United and you say he is worth 50 million how did you reach to how did you reach at this figure these are the things that you want to be doing in the youth teams our clubs really like he says are the owners of the the holders of these offices in these clubs are they the right people are they even do they even understand the kind of situation they put themselves in by saying I own this club and I am running a club and this is where we want to get to because honestly what is happening right now with the clubs the club owner is the marketing manager we have many heard you know some of the coaches still some are doing their finances so aki se maibu dokutayenda and that brings us to the question of you know who is supposed to be in charge of a club what are the eligibility requirements for someone you know who deserves being at the helm of a top tier club that he would he would oversee the successful running of the team because like you were talking before the show started about you know Florentino Perez of Rialma it has been a mainstream regarding his tenure as a president of the team because I think of his financial might when the team gets rendered he got what it takes to come to the rescue of the team should you also follow suit and replicate the same at home Yanga, Azam, Simba I think are doing the same too over and above that and I said during the Kiataka committee tenure can we take our club KPL champions both men and women at least to Tanzania just to learn how clubs are being run an induction trip let me call it an induction trip just to learn how clubs are being run they get a blueprint and just when they come back let them replicate only 40% of it not much because Yanga, Simba and Tibwa and Coastal Coastal Union all of them started like where we are our clubs were far much better ahead by then but now they have overtaken us because they disrupted everything sat down, looked back and were active listeners unfortunately some of us are not active listeners if he is giving feedback say so when you are giving a point to become an active listeners then you action it if a sponsor comes in it's all about just giving money to the club the sponsor should ask the value the value and one of the value is how are you playing your players how are you paying them can I see an ERP system whereby I know your players are being paid a minimum amount so I know the money that I'm giving you goes into this do we have agreements maybe with hotels where a season is starting here's a club you know that you're going to go to Mombasa or Kamega or Kericho do you have a hotel in advance engage them and say I'm going to come to your hotel can you give me this discount so your financial person has a proper budget air tickets and everything once you have that in advance and that's what good organized clubs does there are some clubs do that here then these are my players then which insurance company because today insurance company are yearning to cover players but what is a package so your sponsor man comes automatically it goes to insurance you are covered it goes to salary you are covered it goes to transport you are covered then now you look for other source of revenues extra revenues which clubs are minting millions globally in terms of those meetings so we need the KPL clubs owners at least or champions to have an induction trip to go and see what are the best practices what are we missing to go do benchmarking just benchmarking my friend we we had senior government officials do that when we had World Cup yeah I think it was in Russia benchmarking 2016 now we are 2022 6 years later you tell me what anybody any one of them learnt and what we are trying to implement okay we've talked about stadiums having you know you go benchmark and see why these countries are so developed in football and why they are where they are how is it that they produce a certain number of professional players you know and world beaters and we come and say we want to build one stadium in every county and we feel that's developing the game let us talk about Nairobi because this is what we are we understand Nairobi if we have a stadium in Kangemi and you live in Dandora or Kayole how many times are you going to access that stadium as a kid you need training certain number of hours a week you need to participate in matches Toka Dandora every day at least one hour training in Kangemi how feasible is that doesn't even make sense we have countries and we have reports UF has made a report after the same World Cup 2018 I believe and say they build many pitches so that when this kid is at home at Kengaliya in Jedrisha there is a field there not necessarily make up carpet but it has been leveled and the guys around that area that love the game and have invested in the game in terms of training and coaching they have been actually educated and trained so well the list the list certificate was a UFAB in the project that I'm talking to you about the heart trick project UFAB license that's the list everyone else is above that so this kid goes out there's a level playing field Kiwanja safi safi safi and we have well trained coaches just from around there since the benchmarking in Russia how many cases how many coaches can we say the government felt that every year they will be sponsoring or backing this number of coaches every year so that we can be where those people that we watched at the World Cup are you understand so it's a big challenge if we had senior government officials go and this is where we are I don't know about the FK I don't know about the KPL club owners but it is a great program back home now that you widely travelled with your vast experience how can it get executed because like what Sepe is saying if senior government officials including ministers and politicians led by MPs and Senators travelled to Russia in 2018 for benchmarking and nothing has been as materialized in terms of implementing what they so how possible is it to execute it is very much possible there is good will right now when you talk to clubs champions and see there is very much good will what they need to we also suggest this maybe they go in for a 3 day seminar in the country and you have professionals coming in to train them you remember in the caretaker we actually have a report I think from PWC or one of these or delayed or something that these guys who are actually managing football league premier football league this personal league we have that report from them so one of the advice is we bring in the CEOs and the champions of clubs for a 3 day seminar to take them through why do you need a limited company why is it important to have a players contract and on that seminar we are inviting sponsors and the sponsor come and say this is what we require from new clubs because a sponsor who comes in to sponsor they want their brand to be protected and they want value for their money even before they start this coming league it is important to have a 2 days or 3 days seminar and to take these clubs through a vigorous seminar to understand this is your vision and then you have a timetable when are you going to have a women team when are you going to have a youth team then with that that is a report I say clubs have agreed to have a women team on this date a youth team on this date or you can adapt a youth team and say I have a youth team I have adapted it or a women team have adapted it so this is our youth team so the sponsor comes in knowing that I am sponsoring 3 teams there is a women the KPL the women and the youth then this sponsor will understand wow so we have youth teams across the country so my brand will be known from this age group this value and the sponsors are willing they are only scared because anytime they come in this chaos if that chaos is packed these KPL clubs will grow because we have talent we are really visionary and we really want to grow so it's important to take them too then now call even legions what is your experience in running an academy what is your experience as a player today we are calling all the legions say he can be a brand ambassador go back to Fafajeriko or go back to Queens or to Kisi and say ya is for me to be here I was not smoking I was not doing this then they become legions become brand ambassadors of countries today Oliver Khan had to be taken back to school after playing all international matches and winning world cup so that he can become a manager those are job opportunities there are so many and I'll keep on insisting football in itself does not need funds from outside if we are all structured properly with transparency then we can actually sustain ourselves in football quality conversation it's been with this traditional menu for an integral part as far as Kenyan football and before I let them go I think I would want your final submission sepe what is your parting shot regarding way forward for Kenyan football yesterday I was talking to Bob Yogola, former Kenyan international and asking him about his insights regarding upcoming FIFA World Cup in Qatar and African chances and he was telling me before we talk about other 5 African countries representing we need to talk and ask ourselves why is Kenyan not there and even before we start talking about Kenyan we need to start talking about Kenyan should start qualifying for regional competitions like Secafa, Afghan then World Cup so it's a gradual process what's your parting shot is it really a parting shot but to get our football to where we need we all would love to see it from everyone, from government private sector citizen and everybody involved in the game let us be honest to the game and try to get it to where it needs to be I'll give you an example Benin right now the government and FIFA and the FA they work together on football education and development for the betterment of football in Benin so if we can pull everyone honestly together as society I think it's an effort that like he says we won't need anyone any funding or any support from whatever other source we as a country for the 6 million plus people can come together and decide the future of this country wow Ali Amur, what do you wanna say regarding way forward on Kenyan football actually three things first and foremost is FIFA calendar today we have to look at the FIFA calendar we are banned, we are suspended when the suspension is lifted tomorrow which is the immediate competition that our clubs or international matches we are going to honour if you look at the African Cup I think it's been postponed to 2024 clubs towards mido end of 2023 and even Secafa it will be next year so we have a window of 6 months if our ban is lifted today we have a window of 6 months for us to go actively back to FIFA tournaments and that is one thing even clubs don't understand it we need to understand the FIFA calendar which is supposed in Senegal it's shared to everybody they know this is the FIFA calendar in other countries even in Tanzania they know the FIFA calendar because of the activities so in Kenya I don't think most clubs or even officials understand what is the FIFA calendar if our ban is lifted today which is the immediate competition that our teams are going to get engaged so we have time to fix our house together that is one second I mean in the previous show you talk about doping we talk about doping at competition level I think doping education should be introduced in schools and age heating too yes should be introduced in schools whereby the kids who are growing up and they want to be athletes you will understand for me to be accessible athletes I am not supposed to be taking this kind of drugs or ETC the third one is about World Cup we need to emphasise World Cup many African countries are not participating in World Cup but if you look at the emphasis imagine putting KBC I am sure you are you are a Holocauster it should be emphasised they should be kind of education to the academies and say today his academy is going in to watch a World Cup match sponsored only by water and everything and you replicate it in different counties then you will find that there is mileage now people understand oh I want to be a player because some of us were young we saw the Kinapeles and the Kinaplatini and it motivated us and it gave birth to so many professional footballers Kenya as a country late a bit in professionalism but we had a very great team it was in Ismailia I can tell you this passion with Egyptians the town that you come from that is your club and that is what happened in UK in any other countries that is your town you will not go to any other club so we need to create that passion the town that you come from and everything my last point is about stadiums we are struggling with venues today we have 12 KPL clubs only in Nairobi imagine if six of them are playing on that weekend that's why we brought our food at one o'clock double headers one o'clock and three o'clock we were talking about the diet do you know at what time as a player you are supposed to take your food and go to the field meaning you've eaten at around 11 no four hours before four hours before four hours before and a certain diet yes you cannot be that diet but at least for a KPL club to play one o'clock I don't think it's right my opinion so in the next stadiums we need to have proper stadiums and the stadiums will start who are the one of the third KPL clubs the clubs they have to start now owning their own stadiums wow Ali Amur in charge of leagues and competition in the just ending FKF transition committee Simon Saipem Lama Foma Kenyan international loving featured for mother united and FCL but it's too unfortunate mother united has been relegated most of us rallied behind them but there's no other option and coincidentally both of them schooled in Iterio same region same region Nyanza Michael Kots was your classmate no he's my schoolmate Saipem was your schoolmate person of your generation for our generation well we had a huge and a great school Sunday Udiyamfu was there Dulebdala daddy was there you know John Mumui Rori John Mumui Rori wow countless names oh it's been a pleasure joining me thank you guys for coming through and sharing that insightful information regarding Kenyan football the state of Asoka and going forward what we should do to ensure that you know we revive the dwindling standards of the game and they lost glory as well thank you for coming through it's the touch line my name is Max Oluasike don't go away continue staying tuned the show proceeds thank you