 excited. It's a 704. I would like to open up the item housing authority monthly meeting. It's a regular board meeting. It's Wednesday, March 16. And again, it's 704. We'll call the meeting to order. Roll call, Joanne. Here. Here Ella. Here. Gar. Here. Brian is here and Nick will be 15 minutes or so late. So we'll let's go right to the executive director's report, Jack. The 80 year bathroom project of Winslow Towers and Chestnut Manor, as well as the HVAC project that Winslow Towers are here in completion. Work has begun on the units affected by the prior Chestnut Manor. The fire alarm system operated at the Hauser Building is currently still currently out to bed. An engineer from the DHCD has been out to Chestnut Manor to start the planning process for the electrical upgrade of Chestnut Manor. The Drake Cottage Door Replacement Project. The Manor Manor floor study and Hauser Building roof replacement, a flood study. Hauser Building roof replacement will be moving into the design phase pending board approval of designer fee contracts tonight. Manor Manor is being considered by DHCD for a deep energy retrofit study through the Rocky Mountain Institute's Realize-MA program. This could lead to additional funding opportunities for the window replacement building envelope upgrade upgrades at Manor Manor. We're very excited about being considered for this and for the potential to really make this a really holistic modernization project in Manor Manor. Our lean application has been approved. Lean is the statewide network of local community action agencies who provide energy efficiency and other energy services and no cost income eligible clients. This will allow us to address a number of different energy efficiency initiatives and push for things like insulation, weatherization of windows and things like that. So we're excited that it's finally been approved and we've been notified that a customer service rep will be reaching out to us soon to discuss the next steps. Ever sources in the process of fixing light outages around Manor Manor, they've already fixed a few and staying on top of their service rep to continue to fix the others. There were some delays related to snow and in cars, but we're going to work with them to fix some of the others. In regards to COVID-19, the town of Allenton has continued to provide free testing on Mondays at Town Hall and the Allenton Housing Authority has secured additional COVID-19 testing kits for residents through MEMA and is in the process of issuing them out to residents. In regards to tenant training events, last month we got the process started with some fire prevention and safety classes. This past month, we did an emergency preparedness training class at Kyrstap Terrace, our resident services coordinators in the process of scheduling other sites for this training. The Allenton Police Department Animal Control Officer, Dianne Walsh, held an event for children during February vacation. She brought an owl to show the children and also provide some other education on animals. We are still waiting for the HCD's approval for our grievance procedures and I'll continue to follow up with our housing manager to figure out when they're going to approve that so we can get that out to residents. Staff are working hard to complete the senior public housing annual rent determinations. The new rents will be effective May 1st, 2022 and notices will be starting to go out to residents very soon if they haven't already. The SHERA program will end April 15th, 2022. We have received over $60,000 in rental assistance for residents in need and we're still applying for residents that need it at this point but the deadline is April 15th. We are in the process of we're in the preliminary screening process for the assistant executive director job. Once we have completed our preliminary screening, we will reach out to the LTOs so that they can participate in the process. The Family Self-Sufficiency Coordinated Job is still posted and we're still seeking applications from the public for that role. In the interim, our contractor, Sandy Reijers, continued to provide services for the program and we're very grateful for her to continue doing that while we're in this transition period. Additionally, we are in the procurement process for the cleaning and landscaping services and a number of our different sites where we're excited about the potential to get some services like this in our residences, in our buildings and feel that this will provide our maintenance staff even more ability to focus on some necessary areas that we're hoping to address in the near future. Is that it, Jack? That's it. Anybody have any questions, Jack? I know we screwed it over somewhat quickly, this potential at the monotony manna. This has got huge potential for us if we're chosen for this. When he refers to the building envelope, I mean, the potential here is that, you know, those brick buildings and stuff could be wrapped, insulated, wrapped. That would change things with the windows across. You know, you could have a whole new look down there, whether it be some type of a stucco or a siding or something like that. But, you know, that could develop into a instead of looking at brick buildings, you could have a, you know, whole host of colors and stuff. It's pretty exciting. And when will you know if we've been chosen for that? So right now, they're pursuing the study and then, you know, pending the results of the study, then we'll be able to apply for some different other initiatives like the 1000 carbon challenge and others. And, you know, it's going to lead to additional funding opportunities. So the results of the study will provide us information related to, you know, what one we think would be the best option for money, monotony manner. And then it will also provide us some information related to, you know, what we can afford and afford it right now. So we're excited about all the different potential here to really make the development down there energy efficient, especially given that residents of an auto manner pay their own utilities. And is this with this delay in any way this window assuming we get the funding just a second with this delay in any way the window project, obviously, assuming we get the funding and so forth. I don't believe so. But you know, I'll have a better idea as the study moves on. But I don't believe the plan is still to move forward. And hopefully, I'm going to be able to, you know, myself, Chris and others will be able to really push for additional funding sources on the on the docket tonight is the our high lab application. And we'll be looking at some other things and use the potential there to get funding through to one to the funding we've already gotten from the town. So whether the state can actually give that to us. But I think when we will be a really great candidate for any funding the state wants to give us because of how much the town has already invested. That's great. You got to let Nick and Nick, go ahead, Joanne. Oh, we just came up. Yes, it may be a really good opportunity. But the people I talked to it, and I don't feel excited. They feel confused. And I would hope this is a project we could do with the tenants who after all live there, and are going to have to put up with a lot of construction. And I'd like to suggest that Jack have a meeting with them, and describe what he has planned for them. I think you're way too early on it, though. I mean, this is a study for the potential. So I mean, this could be years off. But Jack, any comment on that? I think that it would be really, you know, I think it would be a good time for me to really sit down with the resident department on a remand related to the potential for this would be, you know, once we start getting results from the study, and start to get an understanding of exactly because I don't want to talk about hypotheticals when those hypotheticals might not even be the reality. And did they give you an idea? Is it six months? Is it a year before the study is done? Right now, I'm just providing them data so that they can determine if we're going to be eligible for the additional funding sources that would allow us to do the study. So I'm still in that process. The Windows study itself is moving ahead and I'll be in touch with applicants to see where we are with that portion. But as far as the additional portions of it, I hope to have more news soon. Go ahead, Joanne. Well, I'm more confused than ever. I mean, I think it's important to talk to the tenants as you move along, things that you might be doing so we don't have rumors and anxiety and concerns. Also, I did talk to Jack briefly, but I'm very confused. I thought the idea was to get the state inspector to come and give, evaluate how much it was going to cost to replace the Windows. Now, we may do it differently with something else. That's fine. But it's been since last, I believe July, that we were supposed to have him come and evaluate the Windows. Now, is he going to do it? Or is this something that replaces his evaluating I don't understand what this who is doing the study? This is the $20,000 that we appropriated at the last meeting. That's correct. So the advocates, architects and planners who's conducting the study. And they've done things in an automated manner before. That's correct. We're talking two major things here. We're talking the study that's going forward, the window replacement. So the architect studies it determines what product and how much and then it goes to the next phase. The envelope thing that he mentioned is a totally different thing. Jack found it applied for it. And it's a different study that if it concludes that, yes, we qualify for this project, then we would go further for funding. So two totally separate things. To be clear, they will be working with advocates on this. That's good. Miley, we should be working together. Where are we on the window study then? Well, we just I have not come from the state to evaluate to see how much it would cost. Is that right? The window study is not complete. I have not received results here. Well, we just voted on that last month. So I mean, it's going to take abacus a little bit of time here. But my screen is with when you abacus is doing the window study. And then who is doing the envelope study? So that's that's to be determined. We're still working on getting that funding source. So that's that's still to be determined. Abacus is doing the study instead of the person from the state who's supposed to come down and evaluate how much it's going to cost. So this state evaluation in the capital planning system, I believe is about $4.6 million for both sites. So I has come down and taken out the windows and found out how much it'll made an estimate about how much it would cost. That's that was not what. So the state is not doing that type of work. That's part of the study. Wait a second. I've been waiting all this time for the state guy to come and evaluate the windows. So he's no longer that that was required that he do that. But and we left two apartments vacant for him to do it. But now he's not going to come. I think there's just confusion, Joanne, about the study versus, you know, the the engineers and the engineers from the state. Advocates is doing the work that you're referring to. And what work? So they're doing the study. That's correct. Going to study. Yeah, but they're not evaluating them for the cost. That I I think that's all going to be inclusive. I mean, it's going to be it's going to be, you know, the cost estimates, it's going to be, you know, recommendations for work to be done. So so it wasn't required to have the man from the state come down and evaluate the windows, which we've been waiting for for a number of months. It's not required to get another person to do it. I remain very confused. It is required. So I hate to belabor it, but Jack, you take us again through the steps here so we can understand. So I think maybe part of the major confusion with this is in a normal project. If we actually were moving forward with, say, a window project, window replacement project, building an individual project at this time, we're not to be re-enter. The state would have a component before the designer selection and then moving into the bidding process. But because this is a study and not a not the actual project itself moving forward, it's that study, you know, before we knew about our before you about anything, any of the potential possibilities is that this is different in that sense that the study is going to provide us, you know, a lot of really great information on what's going to help us really plan well for a building envelope and window project in an army manner. In other words, the study will open us up to a bigger project than just the windows. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to use to apply and seek out additional funding and but also educate us on what's necessary and maybe ways in which we can prioritize if necessary. If funding is becomes difficult. I'm sorry, it makes no sense to me. I don't fear, Rella, do you understand this? Since you live. Let me just add one thing. The architect that does the study will then determine the data to give to forbidding. So, you know, you need to have this report from the architect before we can talk a bit. So then because it's then giving the estimate of how much it will cost, they'll do that in this study. They typically estimate. Now, when you go out to bid, it could be taught, especially with what's going on today, the bid could be twice as the estimate. So, you know, we're working on a project in mass maritime where there's a 40% overrun, which is easy. So what we do until you have the project by the architect, then coordinate with the state. The interesting part here is that we're looking for our own funding was Jack referred to. If this was a simple state project, they would do everything soup the nuts, but because we're trying to get our own funding for it, it does confuse it a little bit. I think the bottom line is, everybody, we're moving in the right direction. We voted last month to hire the architect when he or she is moving in the right direction. And, you know, hopefully we'll have an answer in a month, you know, and have some direction. Yeah, I think that the architect, which I should have looked at more carefully, is to plan a larger project, which might be fine. But it's not the window project, per se. So we're studying aside the window project, we're not having the God come from the state to evaluate it. No, no, no, Joanne, it's not correct. We're having advocates come and have the study done, then it's going to go out to bid. What they're talking about with the walls, advocates is also going to look at it to evaluate that, but we don't we hear Jack is still in the process of putting that through. So even if advocates says, OK, you need to break in all of that, the window is still going to move along because we still have to hear back. Even though the state is not going to send the architect back to give it. This is a larger project that's being considered, which might be just fine, but I think we ought to be clear about that, which is to wrap the buildings and different kinds of things to protect drafts and so forth. So advocates is going to come and do the study and then the state is also going to come and do it. So I think what might help clarify this too is to rewind back to about almost this time last year. So we were we we in June, July timeframe, we did the hearing for the capital plan, at which point we talked about the window study as a means in which we could understand with the full scope and cost of a window and building a whole project would be an autonomy manner. At that time, we did not have sufficient funding to add it to our capital plan, given that it would take up almost five years of capital funding on its own. So the process, the reason we selected the window study was so that we could still get that information so that we could go out and seek out funding. And then so what ended up happening in August timeframe, we had conversations with Adam Chaplin, we had conversations with the town of Allington and we began to be considered for ARPA funding. You know, fast forward to now, it looks like we're potentially going to get two and a half million dollars from the town of Allington for ARPA funding. We're also potentially going to get one point one million dollars from the town in CPA funding, pending, you know, some other factors through CPA as well for the windows, for the windows. So and that puts us in a position now where we're getting to a point where we're going to be able to add this into our capital plan. And once we add it to the capital plan, that's when the normal functions could happen as to another project like tonight we're going to be getting some design fees approved and then they'll be able to do the design and then put the project out of it. Unfortunately, because it's a little bit more complicated because of the cost of this project, it's going to take more time because we're going to have to add this project still into our capital plan. We're going to still have to, you know, but with this study that should help move the process along at that point. Yeah. So the excuse me, I just want to make sure the design you're talking about is wrapping the fees, whatever they decide to do I don't think that there's anything particular necessary, not necessarily in mind at this point. That's, you know, the benefit of the study is that they're going to look at it and provide some recommendations. So there's no it's not a straightforward window replacement. No, no, no, no, that that is a totally separate thing. Windows A, the rapid B, B may never happen. Jack found an avenue for potential funding. So it may never happen. It's a totally separate thing. We'll see windows before we see wraps, if we see wraps. But just to put a finite point in this, even when we get to the window phase, you know, there will be a meeting, especially for Fiorella and the folks at Monotomy Manor, there'll be a meeting with down there to say, look at this is what the architect proposes is the color, here's the type, here's the style and would be all think, you know what I mean? So same thing, if we ever get to a wrap issue, we would have a meeting, probably have many meetings to figure out the specificity of all the wrappings and stuff like that. So the window project doesn't need this guy from the state anymore. Well, not in regards to the study. And, and, and so so we're not waiting on anybody from the state at this point for the study. It does he still have us on the list to come and see the windows and get. No, because he's pushed that he's pushed the project along to advocates. OK, I have a concern about that. Advocates did our kitchens. Advocates was the architect, I believe, the kitchens. They weren't the contract. OK, did they have to check the job after they were done with it? I would believe yes. They would be punchless. That's multiple. My concern is that I thought we you know, I thought if someone did a bad job, then we wouldn't use that company again. And that's what advocates did for the kitchens, a bad job. The tiles left completely up. Some people have to close, you know, open their their oven. So is there another company that can do the study? State that that's that work was done by a contract and not the architect. Advocates, if advocates came to check it, then they clearly didn't do their job either. But if well, they should. But I'm going to. So the unfortunate part about public getting is that it's it goes with the lowest bidder. There's other factors involved as well. But if the contractor does the does the project to to the standard and is able to showcase that it used, you know, whatever whatever the project, the products were and to the standard that was agreed upon and and they met all the requirements in the punch list, then then we move forward. If we find that the contractor did the did the job inadequately, then they that's reflected in their DECAM review. So who was the contractor that did the kitchen? I would have to look into that. I don't know that offhand. But remember one thing, we vote here for the final approval and payment. So anything going forward and I don't remember the kitchen project, but anything going Chris, a partridge and the staff would inspect it to make sure it's functional work. So for instance, after all the windows are in, if they're not going up or down, then Chris is going to tell us and we're not going to vote to pay the company. We're going to hold back the funds until everything is fixed to our satisfaction. Why didn't that happen last time, though? I mean, the. The tiles up, it was not properly put down. They did not they did not follow the the instructions of the whatever glue they were using to put the tiles. So if abacus is the architect and they had to come after to check and see, oh, you did a great job, then they didn't do their job either. And if we came in to check the job, then they didn't do their job either because the kitchen is not it's it's not good. Well, I'm sure I'm sure the day after the project was done, the tiles were probably glued to the floor and worked. I mean, this sounds like it happened over time as for whatever the. I'll happen over time. I am highly. That did not follow the instructions. I have information saying so that they didn't put it correctly from the beginning. Well, I can't comment on work that was done a decade ago. What I can do is is indicate that there are multiple checks and balances in these processes. So while the architect is, you know, one of the key players in checking on on how work is done, the state and multiple other individuals participate in that to ensure projects are completed. Let's say the state comes by and see the kitchen, for example, and they're like, yeah, no, this was not adequately done. Then would they have to be the ones that take abacus out so they don't have to do the study? Like, that's my concern. No, they take the contract and do the job correctly in the first place is whether it was inspecting it after or planning for it or not telling the contractors how to do it correctly. That's my concern, the fact that we had someone come in here and inspected and say that that was OK. It's not OK. And if maintenance came here to check it, too, then that wasn't OK either. Of course, Nick, do you recall the date that these kitchens were done? How many years ago? It's it's probably a good 10, 15 years, I remember. Yeah, so I mean, we're we're far beyond any any little litigation type period. But to your point, Brian, is in fear of it. Again, we have the right to choose the vendor. Dispect the vendor sort of holds a vendor in in responsible for implementing the project the right way. Now, you can look back 15, 10, 15 years and say it was completely done wrong. That's OK. But and it's not OK if they didn't do it right. But again, this board right here as a responsibility to find the right vendor, to find the right project manager, to find the right construction person to implement and execute the right way and hold them accountable. It's exactly what we need to do here, and you'll be on the board. And I hope hopefully you'll be on the board to help us do that in the future. But what you're concerned, dear, I don't understand it. They didn't do it right. Someone's going to come in here to do a study, someone that came in here after checking the job of the kitchen and saying that it's OK. If those are the people that are going to come and check the windows and I'm sure they're going to say it's OK to do it. We have the right. They didn't do it correctly. Why cannot we hire someone else to do it? You're right. You're right. We have the right to say no to these guys. OK. No, we should put it out to bid, right? All three of these things put out to bid. We have to put it out to bid and we decide who the right people are. And your study was to bid. I'm sorry. The study goes out to bid. No, I'm not. Not necessarily. Because it's going to do the inspection. This is the state. Our project managers from the state. So I would have to come and explain this whole situation for them to maybe change to another company. Yeah. So let me ask you if you are. Have you lived in this unit since the kid when the kitchen was changed? No, 2014. But since 2014, the tiles have been lifting too. So somebody just typed up that the kitchens have done in 2009. All right. So I guess you know, read a lot. If you lived there in 2009 and moved in when the kitchen was just done, you know, I think it's a different, different situation. I think that there's no problem someone that lives here, lived here in 2009 to let us know. Yeah, exactly. It was a concern to make sure that we buy the right people here. I'm with you. Right. No. All right. So let's wrap this one up so we can move on. Any other questions for Jack? So I didn't have a question, but I did have a couple of things that I sent out about six that I did want to add to the agenda, but I don't mind like doing that till the end so we can just kind of get all the other stuff through. Did you send me something at six o'clock? No, to Jack. Oh, you did? Yeah. I know it was an hour before the meeting, but I just said I wanted to add three things, if that's OK. Yeah. See that. Was it the questions you and I talked over this morning? It was more, actually, two more things. So unless it's pertinent to any of these things that are on the agenda, we can't add to the agenda because of the open meeting law. So is it is it pertinent to any one of these items that we already have here? Yeah, I guess it could do with the budget. OK, what number would you put it towards? You're asking me? Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you said to do it right after the executive director's report. Yeah. So what you when you and I spoke about was some of the handouts that we got, right? Yeah. The handouts. Yeah, that's I asked that question. I said that was that was fine. But if there's something different that you want to add to the agenda, we can't add it to the agenda. We have to give 48 hours notice. So that's update like 24 hours ago. Well, ask your first question. Let's see. We got an update at 10 o'clock today this morning. You know, that was a handout. That was a handout that wasn't an update on the on the agenda itself. OK, so what's the question? Go ahead. Let's see if we start. I have more than a question. I have a lot to say, and it's got to do with the budget. And, you know, I just noticed a lot of things that I wanted to to ask about. I mean, I can go, but that's why I was saying I might as well just do it at the end so we can just get through it and I can just say that at the end. All right, let's do that. Let's get through the agenda and then we'll go back to Pierrilla and see. OK, moving on. Number four. There's a. We didn't do this last year. I think we didn't have time covered, whatever. I don't know what it was. But Jack has is asked if we on June 10th as a paid holiday, the state adopted it last year. The housing authorities, 99 percent of them, not 100 percent of them have adopted it. We didn't get it done in time. So. The motion is to add Juneteenth as a paid holiday under the Allenton Housing Authority handbook. Any any discussion on that? No, I will. So moved. So moved. Second. I second that. So we have moved by Nick, second by Fiorella. All in favor. Gar. Yes. Joanne. Yes. Nick. Yes. Vierella. Yes. And Brian's. Yes. So that motion passes. Number five. Approval of the housing trace voucher payment standards in your packet. Any questions on that? And just to provide a little bit of additional detail. So normally this would be something that would come out in the late fall, November time frame on November. If you remember back at that point, I indicated that the Boston Housing Authority and the Section 8 Administrators Association have filed a suit or appeal with with HUD related to the FMRs that were put out at that point for 2022. HUD reevaluated and came out with with new FMRs, which which showed increases which were which would be beneficial to the participants, which were which were very happy about employees. So what we're looking to is to approve at 100 percent of that fair market rate that that HUD has proposed for this area, the Boston area and it would be effective for May 1st, 2022. Question. Darilla. Why was John Griffons on that document? Yeah, I know. I said, why was John Griffons on that document? Because I was going to ask that I'm like, what was the last time we were we tried to update that? But if it was 2022, why was John Griffons name on it still? Yes, I don't I don't I don't see you trying to. Yeah, no letter in the letter that they sent this jacket. It says it's it's addressed to you on a note you obviously didn't get the memo. Oh, for the for the next letter. Yeah, yeah. Well, for the. You'll see that you're referring to the wage rates for the for the maintenance staff. Correct. Correct. Yeah, so they they just haven't gotten the memo yet. Yeah. Well, after follow up with them to ensure they understand who's so do we have a motion for number five? Actually, I have a couple of questions too. So is every person that's listed here actually hired or are there some people that we just don't have? OK, that's number six, right? That's number six. Let's get number five out of the way first. I'm talking about I see electricity for labor. No, no, no. Number five is approval of the housing choice voucher payment standards. Jack asking for a motion to go to one hundred percent of the fair market value. OK, yeah. So do we have a motion for that? No, no. Sorry, I was on mute. Second. So we have a move by Nick, second by Gar. All in favor, Gar. Yes. Go in. Yes. Nick. Yes. And Fiorella. Yes. Great. OK, that passes. Now, number six, these are the wages that the state tells us we have to pay. Now, we don't necessarily have a body in each one of these categories, but this is the pick list that Jack put on the on the document here. There are many more people on the state list. So we really don't have a choice. We see this every spring. And these are the new rates and they usually go up, I don't know, a couple of dollars or two or three percent or something like that. So go ahead and your question on that then, Fiorella. So, yeah, so so all those are filled up or no? Sorry, I just know my understanding is they give us a housing of the maintenance titles for the housing authorities in general. And, you know, while, you know, a lot of these are not titles at the Allenten Housing Authority, the benefit of them giving us an approval at these rates is that if in the future we did want to hire somebody in one of these positions, we would be able to without having to go back to the Department of Labor and Standards and redo the rates. Because what ends up happening is if I had to add a position at a later day, like say, I want like the plumber's not on here. I need to add a plumber. Then all the rates would get reset to that date. So it's the more the more titles on here, the better just so that we have more flexibility of positions become available. Right. So it's our electrician hired full time. That's correct. Yeah. For many electrical, you know, like the can't maintenance do most of the electric that usually when I call about electrical, so usually maintenance is just able to do that quickly. So how many jobs does he get a day if he's full time? The electrician performs his duties as an electrician by performing the necessary amount of electrical duties in a given day. There's all good. Varies every day. That varies every day. It varies. But he but he he's a full time electrician. There is a full time amount of work at the house. He already bought him. And in the work that the electrician done is the work that an electrician is required to do by code. If there are smaller jobs that the code doesn't require, I mean, it's doesn't require someone to have a license. Then, you know, we could consider using mechanic. But an electrician is required to do the electrical work by code. That's true. So we don't necessarily need a motion to accept this, John Gregg? Or do we? Is this acceptable? Yeah, you should have a motion to accept the rates from the LWD. OK. So do we have a motion for number six? I motioned for the acceptance of wages. I second it. So we have moved by Fira second by Joanne, all in favor of that. Yes. Joanne. Yes. And Nick. Yes. And Fiorella. Yes. Great. Moved down to number seven. Approval of the capital improvement plan budget revisions. Jack, you want to talk about this? Yes. So there was an incident a couple of weeks back at the housing building that was that was concerning the way to the electric panel. So we're we're moving fast to try to address that. That that panel in question has been replaced. However, just just for precautionary measures, we want to try to get a project in the works as soon as possible. So by doing a revision that will allow us to move forward. And later on the button this agenda, you'll see that we did request emergency funding through CBA, which will help us move forward with this project. Great. We have a motion to accept approval. So moved. Second. I'll second it. So we move move by Nick second by Joanne, all in favor for the approval of number seven. Gar. Yes. Joanne. Yes. Nick. Yes. Urella. Yes. And Brian is a yes. Number eight. Approval of the abacus architect and plan is design services contract the amount of 57 520 the Drake Village cottages, the doorway improvements. I have a question. Yep. Jack can explain this to me. The abacus architects are getting 37,520 dollars to replace the entry doors. Design them. But the people who put them in are getting 10,000. So I'm not quite sure what these designer services do. And maybe if he could just give us a description. I don't know why that should cost more than three times than it costs to put them in. Where did you see 10,000? Yeah. So no, it's in the. The addendum. Cost a lot more than 10,000. But Jack, go ahead, Jack. He estimated construction cost for this project is $266,000. Yeah, the designer fee is 37,520 dollars. So I think the $10,000 that you're referring to construction is it's just a component of their design designer fee. Oh, it's not broken down. It's not actual construction. It's there. It's just broken down. And that's a part of their fee. So what does the designer do for 37,520 dollars? They measure them. They look into different products. I don't understand what they do. So what we're looking at at the cottage is a great village. We're looking at because they're the entryway doors, there are some things that we need to consider related to the code and regulation. We're looking to put electric strikers in and potentially intercom systems in so that those doors will remain locked to provide some extra security to the residents so that some of those features will be included in that fee. Oh, so it's for purchasing some of these features. It's for designing those features. Designing the locks and then they provide project oversight as well. In many ways, you know, they go throughout the like another project. So they design the locks, you know, where they go on the door and on the frame, I guess. And then they supervise the people putting them in. There's different meetings throughout the process to see where they're at and then the housing authority is able to work through the designer with questions. And we're able to work together related to different types of issues that come up. What if a change order is necessary? If there's any types of things that need to be resolved. It just seems like I'm going to explain to me. Is this put out to bid or is this someone you just hire who's interested in doing it? Yes, the state doesn't require being put out to bid at that cost, right? It's typically it's a set percentage or you know, within it's it's around a set percentage for the designer fee. I I'd have to look into that to get you some more concrete answers to that. But that's my understanding. And the designers with the Department of Housing and Community Development, they're they're pre-selected. So we don't go through the designer selection process. The Department of Housing and Community Development does it for us. And those pre-approved architects are called what they call house doctors. And so they look at the different house doctors with different heads of specialties like we'll get a different house doctor for a roof replacement project versus one that's going to be related to building an envelope versus one that's going to be related to something totally different. It seems frankly a lot of money to design where to put the locks on the doors. Let me just say something here. We don't have the authority to pick these things. Any project over a certain dollar value state DCHD does this. They're the ones that pick this and they're approved by DHCD. So we can't just go out and pick our own designer because obviously we deal with state funds here. So, you know, we're not we're not able to nickel and dime this guy or whoever they are. It's not nickels and diamonds. Well, you have a join. You're not an architect and I'm not an architect. So we have to take what the state, you know, the experience of the state and we've got to let DCHD these projects. It doesn't say we'll pay 37 thousand five hundred and twenty dollars to design where the locks go. I mean, I think it would be good to get a breakdown each time. I think cost and how many units are there that we're doing that. Understand folks, that's getting into the weeds of what Jack does. And that's Jack and Chris's responsibility to do that. You know, if you are interested and want to do these things, then Jack, you tell them when the meetings are and invite them down to sit with the contractors. But this is what we, this is the responsibility we give Jack and Chris. I mean, at this point of the meeting we have to discuss this stuff. What's that? Isn't this the point of a meeting to discuss these things? No, it's not. This comes down from. A meeting is not to discuss things that are happening in housing. Birrella, DHCD runs these projects. You've got to understand we don't run these projects. DHCD provides the funding. They run the projects. They pick the architects. They go out to bid. All right. We approve the bids as part of the process. But we don't tell them where to put a lock or where to do this. And we don't tell them, you know, where to put a fire door or not to put a fire door. That's that's not our responsibility. So I would. So I can discuss with people around here that we're here in 2009, how the kitchens were, how they put it in. Because this is the same exact company. And I don't want Drake to be dealing with this stuff too. So maybe hold on to it. Talk to DHCD. I mean, I'll call and talk to DHCD and see what they have to say about this. Because I wouldn't feel comfortable voting on this. Joanne has a concern about how much it is. Maybe she can ask more questions about it. And we'll see how the DHCD feels about the information that will be given to them about this company. They should at least have an itemized bill. Maybe I may add a little context to this. Go ahead, John. Well, the state law requires that certain construction projects over a certain amount require a designer in order to design the project and do and help with the bidding process. Because one of the things the state found many years ago is that when people were doing anything without a designer in certain cases, it wasn't done properly. So the state law requires that projects over a certain amount require a designer. So the designer, so it won't be somebody's backyard cousin it has to be a designer who's qualified. When that has a number of people that are proper designers for different projects. Now in the old days, more frequently, they use the designer selection committee. Now they have, as Jack mentioned, they have house daughters. People design things for the state and the state accepts. And what the state does, they have a range of percentage of the total contract costs that a designer can ask for. So now if you're dissatisfied with a particular designer and you feel that designer didn't do a good job, that's another story. But you have to have a designer on projects over a certain amount in order to comply with the state law. The reason that was done many years ago is because people were designing their own projects that didn't have experience and knowledge and credentials were causing bigger problems that things were failing. As far as the tiles failing, it depends on how many tiles failed and when. I can bring my camera right now over there and I can lift every single tile and I know I'm not the president. I'm not saying there weren't any. I have no idea and I've never used Abacus so I don't know anything about them. However, the situation is this. When the designer goes in and part of his speech is to do a punch list and make sure the work is done correctly after it's done in accordance with the spec that he drew that's required by law that he do a specification based on his designer credentials. Then he would ask to have those things fixed we would hold money from that contractor before he gets paid. Now, if one of if there's 100 units let's say in one of those tiles fails after three or four weeks that's probably something that could happen. It doesn't mean the designer would have necessarily picked that up or that the contractor did a bad job. But after two years or three years 25 or 30% of those tiles failed and that's either a contractor who didn't do his job or it's the designer who was supposed to inspect it didn't do his job. Now the designer is going to inspect it or whoever does the punch list is going to inspect that right after the job is completed. So if he inspects it one month after the job is completed in the meantime we're holding that amount of money from the amount that's being paid to that contractor and he'll say it looks all right we've checked it I don't see anything falling out falling off. If three years later it all starts to fall there's either some problem with the designer design for the master that goes onto those tiles are the contractor putting them in and if it depends on what percentage fail as to whether or not either the contractor or the designer didn't properly do his job. So that's the perspective I think we have to look at all of this in. So it depends on how many and how frequently and how long after this thing failed. Okay. Thank you. We technically so so you're saying DHC so it has to be above a certain amount so they can do a study on it. So that doesn't technically mean that it's going to cost that much it just means that we put it up that high so we could have a study done to it. No, no, not at all. What it what it says is is any job that's estimated to cost because whenever you do public bidding law you do an estimate of a rough estimate of cost and any estimate of cost that looks like and you got to do an honest estimate you know a reasonable estimate you can't just pick a number out of the year any job that's estimated to cost more than a certain amount you need a designer under the state law in order to to you know work on that project. I'm sorry say it again. Who estimates? Who estimates? Well it will be whoever has to put the project out to bid you have to look at the project and say how much is this project roughly going to cost the design is going to get a if it's over a certain amount then it has to you need a designer for that particular project and then when the project is estimated roughly then what you do is the designer can only get a certain percentage of that and DHCD sets the range of the percentages that the designer can get of the total project cost they might say in this project it's two percent, three percent and then you have to come up with a number in between that let's say two and three percent that's all the designer can get of the total cost of the project and that's the estimated cost of the project you don't know actually at that point until the project is bid because if the project runs over a great deal the designer might make a little bit extra might lose a lot of money or he might make a little bit extra if the bid comes the bids from the contract that comes contract is the people who are bidding on it come in much lower but you don't know that at the given time it's got to be a good faith what they call a good faith estimate good faith okay any last many questions on number eight I have a comment it seems like the design I think if I get this right the designer is not so much a designer but a project manager that he oversees all the work that's being done I think that's what John Greco said and he gets paid a percentage of the total cost of the project by state requirement is that right this $37,520 is a certain percentage of what the whole project cost and that's what the state requires whatever that percentage is is that correct that is correct the state will the state will give you a percentage range that you can negotiate with that with that designer for within that within that total cost of the project correct so we just in the chat so you said 2009 and then we have someone that was here in 2009 that says the wrong glue was used on the tiles well if we can show and if we if you could show and I have no idea how many tiles failed and how long it took them for to fail I just don't know but if you could show that a lot of the tiles failed within a period of time the tiles should not fail and it was a more than like one out of 100 tiles because that's a normal failing rate that somebody the contractor may have put one run one in run but if 99 out of 100 tiles fail after a very short period one tile we know lasts a long period then clearly you know the contractor blew it and didn't do the job correctly or the designer allowed the wrong specification for the mastic to put those tiles on he the designer failed so somebody would have failed depending on the percentage and how long it took for those to fail right so was there was the expert the expert that put that in the chat they an architect the contractor how do they know it was the wrong glue are they the contractor sort of contracting the place that are you know constructing how do they know is the wrong glue how do they know it's a wrong glue you just you just mentioned someone said it's the wrong glue how do they know the glue was used on the tiles because how do they know it's told by someone who was here which I was to what does that mean I was told by someone who was here yeah is it a good okay let's go around okay let's go around there's an expert an expert on the glue we need to discuss this with DHCD maybe DHCD absolutely glue and real I will find a way to do this because I am not aware of the fact hold on hold on here you're taking people's words for it right we we hire an experts now you don't like the experts you don't like what the result was that's fine call DHCD if you have an issue with what we're doing so I'm saying can we just hold on to this so no we can all maybe no these people are approved by DHCD well DHCD clearly doesn't know this story or who knows how many listen guys we're talking about something that happened 13 years ago all right that we're still dealing with today that's the process of having to do a crappy job we will suffer from it years from now certain things not meant to last 13 years so we need to move on so are your tiles failing at your home after 13 years how old is your home I've replaced my tiles many times I mean things don't last here I question it I agree with you if you have an issue with what we did you need to reach out DHCD absolutely because they approved everything we did okay and they approved the vendors they approved the contractors they approved the the assessment of the project and they approved us to pay right we have an issue you absolutely need to go to DHCD and coming from you as a tenant we'll have a major I suggest you call DHCD absolutely and Joanne I suggest you do the same because you know again they were all approved they were all approved again I don't know if you should do that they all approved to pay because they did the review of the project now DHCD may have a problem I'm with umbrella give them a call and bitch like you can I would do it I would do it and I would do it again because you're unhappy and you're a tenant but again they approved everything for us okay okay you're right all right I'm absolutely all over and I'll be right behind you if you want me to call right but absolutely let's go talk to those guys all right one last question a guy go ahead I just something to consider is materials and always get improved upon over the years for instance we used to use asbestos siding and different mastics and yufi insulation urea formaldehyde which is now outlawed so over time things improve and materials improve and maybe it wasn't the best specification at the time and maybe people learn by that and it does things do fail over time and you just have to do the best you can it was you know things are going to keep improving different kind of siding I just want to make sure that we are doing the best we can that's why I want to make sure that we are because I which is why we hire a good architect right and advocates are respected by the state yeah if you're really concerned with those guys and if you do I tell you if you're a little I would just raise the issue welcome to the state process beautiful so far hi absolutely if you're I'm with you man I think it came out because it's the same designer which as I understand it is sort of the project manager and there were questions about what would this person is doing the study I think that's was whether they hit full confidence in this designer the state has a long list of people who are qualified according to them to do this work this isn't the only person they have so so that just raised some questions about it I've I haven't seen these kitchen floors so I'm not an expert on this but I think it's what seems to be an a concern about the tenants from the tenants I'm more concerned about how we got $37,520 now a project manager has a lot of different parts to the job and it's I guess a percentage of the total cost and then I heard it was a percentage then I heard there's a range of a percentage so I was I would think that anybody project manager or designer would submit an item I spill you know I went to four meetings I spent two days supervising the work putting in the locks and when it wasn't wasn't a requirement from the state it's not a requirement I mean if the state required it they would do it we you know they are doing what they need to do for the state to approve it I don't I don't understand what your concern is I understand that you think it's high and it's a price but again they approved it if we have issues with that we need to go to DHTD they're not required to send an itemized bill and John Greco tell me if I'm wrong but it's the process yes and if they and if they find that there's some hidden condition that creates something entirely different than they bid on they have to submit that and that's very difficult to get contract would have a better chance of getting something for a hidden condition than the architect would because the architect is expected to designers expected to know the materials that can be used the amount of time it takes to do the job in general conditions because that's one of the things one of the reasons you're hiring that designer is because that designer has expertise in predicting the kind of problems that are going to be in a job with regards to class materials effective materials installation issues that kind of thing so remember the designer also has to do the big package help with preparing the big package you know so taking a look at the credentials of the contractors who bid see if they've done a good job in previous jobs and in DHTD in conjunction with DCAM the division of capital asset management will disqualify contractors for example who have a bad history of doing work on public projects whether they do the effective and doing it or whether they do it carefully and productively that you know and it probably depends on do they get them all or do they get 20% 99% but nevertheless that's one of the functions they do and that's what they do with the contract they're not performing the job properly the state probably has a list of the duties of the designer I thought a designer was just designing something but it seems like they're a project manager which is a much larger job so I understand this better and I don't quite understand if there's a range of percentages but I guess the state decides on the fee that pretty much yes but not within the range they choose well because what they may what they may say Joanne is they may say on this kind of a project the state will approve somewhere between two and four percent and depending on how they determine how difficult that that project is they may say this one's going to be a two percent or a three percent or whatever that's something you'll do okay thank you we have a comment from Marion hold on man hold on man I'll run the meeting here okay no I have a question actually so you know how the roof had like a 25 year expiration date this is does that come with every project well that's oh if I may may I answer that yeah go ahead Joanne yeah what they generally do is depending if it's a roofing project it depends on what the architect feels should be designed the designer feels should be put into the contract should it be a 25 year roof or should it be a 30 year roof should be architectural shingles or another kind of shingles and that's one of the reasons why you're looking into the designer's expertise because you don't want somebody to put down 25 year shingles as part of the spec when for a few more dollars you might put down 30 year architectural shingles that will look better and last a little bit longer and give you a better warranty for a few more short to short dollars but if asphalt materials are going up you know geometrically they might say it's not worth going for that another five years we're going to do a 25 year shingle so that's up to the designer to make that decision pretty much and that's one of the things being the designer for that design is expertise many of these designers who was specific things but some of the designers have two or three areas of expertise not 10 they might only have two or three they have people on one that might be good on roofing another one that might be good on electrical panels so they might be betting on just those two type of jobs because that's in-house what their designers have expertise in right so with that being said my question is do we still have the paperwork of the tiles can we maybe see what expectation we had on how long there were supposed to last yeah you could probably there we go if you could pull that you could take a look at it the biggest question you would have I mean I have no I don't know how many years ago this was none and how many are failing but if you would do a litigation let's say 15 years later that some tiles fell off would a certain percentage of tiles falling off after 15 years be something you could you could succeed in litigation and then if you did now do you blame the architect or the designer for what the designer designed or do you blame the contractor for not doing it correctly because when the designer who does let's say the punch list the architect who does the punch list to make sure everything's done right he does it shortly after the job is completed because he withholds a certain percentage so to take care of any any things that weren't done correctly for the contractor doesn't get all the money until all those things are checked but he's not going to wait you know seven years to check that because you have to pay the contractor within a certain number of days after the punch list is completed so you can't say I'm going to wait 10 years to see what happens that's the process as you know that's what we do we vote we vote on the approvals after we receive the approvals in the punch list and everything else ensure that it's done so so we're still on number eight here do we have a motion to approve number eight yeah I move to approve number eight we have a second second so moved by guy second by Joanne all in favor Gar yes Joanne yes Fiorrella so if I agree with this can I still like should I say no where I'm thinking the company is no good or should I still vote so I'm refused I called yes I called the HCD and so make the complaint should I vote no I mean I think I think you're confusing apples and oranges I think yeah as Nick said go back sit with Jack find the data for the tiles and research and get on that track this is a totally different thing it's a totally different projects nothing to a tile so obviously and the end but I think you're confusing the architect with the contractor you know you labor but I'm sure 13 years ago when they finished all those projects I'm sure the tiles stuck and they last great for years but but at this point we need to we need to move forward the great village thing so so with the contracts so your yes and Nick had Nick your vote are you able to vote he had to jump off of the phone yeah I see him still on here though okay well I'm a yes so we've got an approval there anyways so and we'll put down Nick his absent voting at this moment Nick just text me yes but we need a voice vote based on the there's the overmeeting loss but that's okay so move on to number nine so approval of CBI consulting the designer services of 52 for for the house of building roof replacement notice there's a different outfit here so any questions on this one okay do we have a motion for that one wait I'm sorry move to floor waterfield design groups designer services contract CBI what number nine we're on number nine okay I must be looking at some old agenda this is this is for the house of building roof replacement so we got you I see it okay so you have vote yes I'm sorry did we have a motion on this one yeah I moved to approve the CBI consulting designer services contract I have a second and fiorella seconds all in favor of yeah yes Joanne yes fiorella yes Brian's a yes Nick let's go on record Nick has texted me yes but I'm not sure it counts because it's got to be voice we'll move down to number 10 approval of waterfield design group design services contract in the amount of 13-5 for the monotony manna flood elevation survey dch project dchd project and I would just like to add to this yeah do you want to comment on this one Jack this is funded 100 percent to a grant to study and see what types of types of projects could be could be used to address climate change and resiliency efforts down in the monotony manna so it's 100% funded to this state it's not a housing authority to all of us but they do still require our approval any questions in that questions I think it's Joanne the flood plain is watering the monotony manna anyway I talked to Jack about it I think the study right that's meant to happen prospectively as the water plain moves forward and how we can best help our buildings from having water in the basements and so forth is that right Jack it's going to be all inclusive of the issues or the concerns related to the flooding and other climate change concerns down in the monotony manna will help the housing authority continue to push towards being climate resilient so okay thank you so do we have a motion for that motion for number 10 number 10 I motion to approve number 10 we have a second second yes yes show me a second so we have a motion by Fiorella and second by Joanne all in favor for number 10 Gar yes Joanne yes Fiorella yes and Nick is a yes on text again not sure if it counts but Brian's a yes so we have a motion carries number 11 acceptance of DHCD compliance reserve award for $80,000 320 the housing building fire up alarm upgrade asbestos abatement that was in your project in your packet as well any questions on this one okay do we have a motion to approve this one I move to approve the DHCD compliance reserve award for $80,000 320 for the housing building second move by Gar second by Fiorella all in favor Joanne yes Gar yes Fiorella yes Brian's a yes and Nick's a text yes again so motion carries number 12 approval of the emergency community presentation next CPA funding application for the housing building electrical panel you want to comment on that one yes so this was a CPA application that we put together pretty much immediately after we we saw that issue at the housing building again that issue was addressed but due to our concerns related to federal Pacific electrical panels we will get that project addressed immediately and we feel that CPA emergency funding will help us do that so this application is a way which we can move towards that goal and get that addressed in a timely fashion great do we have a motion for that one yeah I move to approve emergency community CPA application for housing building have a second I second it so we have a motion by Gar second by Joanne all in favor yeah yes Joanne yes Viorella yes Brian's yes Nick's a text to us again that motion carries number 13 roll of the high lab application for the monotony man of window replacement Jack so what I'm asking for is approval for our submission of a high leverage asset preservation program otherwise known as high lab for the monotony man of window project and building envelope repairs and while we're still working on the application itself my goal would be to apply for three to one a three to one ratio of funding based off of the funding that we've already gotten from the town however pending what funding is available through the stable will apply for whatever funding we're possibly able to get so this will allow me to submit the application as soon as we are able to do it I have a question go ahead Joanne yeah um you must have had a dollar amount I'm sorry I somehow missed this and what you sent out so I apologize for not thoroughly digesting but three three point six yeah three to one ratio but what is the amount that you three point six so so initially Joanne and I was looking at you know one to one based off some other conversations that I had with some individuals at the state so that would be a one to one ratio three point in front of three point six but based off of some new conversations that I have had you know there's the potential I could ask for even up to three to one but that's pending available funding so that's that's what I'm hoping to be able to apply for as much as possible we just have to submit ratio we don't have to see what the total amount we here yeah we're just because I mean I'm going to try to continue to leverage applicable funds too so if I'm able to get additional funds to leverage then that ratio could be even higher so you didn't submit any that's correct okay so we haven't submitted anything yet we're still waiting for additional additional data and information that we can use to make it a really competitive application oh you approve can can I make a move yep yep I move to approve the highlight application for monotony manner window replacement project second second okay move by Gar second by Joanne all in favor yes Gar yes Joanne yes Nick is a text yes again and Brian's yes so the motion carries number 14 status of AHA trail rule foundation just a quick update the foundation has been created we have our EIN number we have our designation from Secretary of State office trail rule foundation we can start hitting the pavement writing for grants and solicitation we'll have a meeting in April and go with some other things but we're we're rocking and rolling here so again the purpose of this foundation is to support the health and well-being about tenants throughout our facilities so it's a wide open range of things that we can do everything from supporting different functions to just just a wide range we can we can go in many different directions so it's pretty exciting I think there's great potential here there's a lot of foundations that give to things like this I think as we discussed before we could be more successful in requesting funding to a charitable foundation as a separate entity versus asking nobody's going to write a check to the Allington Housing Authority so we look forward to Juann's experience in grant writing and aggressive attack to all these great grants and banks and everything else so let's that's exciting news so I just want to report that out any questions on that okay approval of the minutes number 15 minutes from to the perfect 16th any corrections modifications if not to have a motion approve the minutes I motion to approve the minutes of 216 2022 for a second yes second so motion by Fiorella second by Ga all in favor Ga yes Juann yes Fiorella yes Brian's yes and Nick's a text yes that motion carries all right let's go back to Fiorella you had some things so folks in the future anything you want to add it to the agenda email it to me the week prior we post this on Friday usually gets posted Friday or first thing Monday so technically any unless it's applicable to these items here we're not allowed to discuss it unless we gave prior notice but since you had you had budget issues I think budget issues are certainly within the scope of the things we've discussed here so if there's something other than that Fiorella then you know maybe I would suggest we'll put on the agenda for next meeting but let's like I said let's start so what's your what's your question I think that all of it will really be part of what we discussed today and I am asking for clarification I'm not stating these things just so you guys know the first thing that I wanted to so I've written the invoices for these things down if you guys want me to send it to you yeah and it's about like the amounts of money the businesses are going to and singular names that I want clarification on there's one for monotony manner for Fiorella inspections for $600 and I was wondering where like what Fiorella it's called inspections what Fiorella alarms were inspected oh okay so you have questions about the checkbook the the data that we get in our packet right yeah so I think I think certainly simply pick up the phone and call Jack and you can get it right from immediately I'm she'd be more than happy to you know explain every item near I mean you have this stuff at his fingertips since he's probably in a better position to do that but okay I just felt like transparency in general would have been best but okay well you know what I mean I don't want to the problem is we've put him on the spot before and then and it's not fair to him because he doesn't have the data in front of him so I mean if there's a $6,000 check to the fire alarm company you know he doesn't know exactly what they do he may but he may not know exactly what they did at that moment in time so I think in fairness to him and you said you emailed the Melissa these I emailed so I wrote like you know all of it down so I can definitely just send him that document and we can discuss it that way yeah do that so let's do that let's send him that document and you go over with him I just want to say that even after we go over it and all of that I definitely do want to add that to the next meeting but let's give him the opportunity to address it yeah yeah yeah two other meetings so when you get your packet and you get the check register but if you have questions about any of those things get him an email immediately so he can research it and tell you exactly what we bought for that $6,000 understanding that you know this is a massive operation and you know he doesn't know everything we buy it could be a Chris issue you know so we really wanted to give him the opportunity to do that and listen transparency that's why you all get a copy of this I think it's very important and I have no problem putting this on the agenda as an agenda item actually so maybe we do is add this as an agenda item to you know review the check register and that would allow you then to go over it publicly item by item but but more specific if it's one particular two particular things give him a heads up so he knows exactly what it is so he can address it yeah I apologize it took me a while on time to learn and all this information and on numbers and all of this so it took me a while to really be able to no no that's that's cool and you know unfortunately I would debate early I don't know if you and Joanne would you know having Starbucks coffee tonight but it's been something but you know even this this bidding stuff I think you know now that we can take the face mask off and we can be human again you know perhaps we should plan something in the spring that we can come face to face maybe have John Greco and Rich Pondland come in and re-explain things we'll put a list together for instance re-explain the bidding system and also Jack maybe you could show them the system that you have the capital improvement system the software that we use is obviously a state software and it it gives you if you plug in I want to change 10 windows it gives you estimations in terms of expenses and stuff and that's what he uses so I think I think you'd be better educated to understand this and and I think when most everybody came on it was COVID so we went right virtually so so let's let's think of something like that for the spring and Jack and I let's put together some you know a simple gender and then we'll get it out to people and they can add to it so anything and everything you want to understand about housing we can do it and that one little suppose him and sure we can make it open to the public I don't have a problem with that Jack did present a great power point to one of the town organizations the other day maybe you should send that I would recommend you send that out to the yeah it was a great yeah it was a great education in terms of what the AHA is made up of and you know one thing you'll be very surprised when you see the thousands of people that are on the waiting list to come into the properties it's staggering it shows obviously this housing problem but so why don't we do those two things so we'll do those for the for the next meeting for the spring excuse me Jack just one other thing just to plug in you know if any any board member wants to attend any training whether it's board member training or anything like that we can definitely discuss that and and sign board members up for that if they want to have a better understanding of you know you know the board member process or the procurement process or things like that those are things we can get from looking at your yeah I haven't got any little some narrow what I mean do they step up again they are yeah so so so went on so any the conference is is Fiorella is that good enough yeah yeah I apologize I got agitating about Abbott because just really grinds my gears because I know about the kitchen because I'm here so yeah I think and I think in your maintenance meeting I mean as I'm listening to the debate you know what's going on in my head as well how many units have this problem I mean have we re glued the tiles down have we redone the floors I mean these are all things for the maintenance meeting perhaps you know Jen should bring that up in the maintenance meeting and do a survey we should have a survey down there of all the units how many have you know and we're not talking on one tile how many have more than more than one tile more than 10 you know is it is it how widespread and you know there's a way of fixing these things but but at any rate so let's move on to the next number 16 LTOs Pam with Pam you're still on Pam how's that Winslow I don't see her yeah I am here Pam any words of wisdom for us well first of all I want to thank the housing authority for the new cuts that we have half of them were put away and hidden on the tenant so that'll be a good thing the other thing is I just have a quick question are you going to be going to in-person board meetings soon or are we going to continue with Zoom going on and on and on first of all we can't do it until I think the state mandate that came out was like July you still have to do these till July and you know honestly I wasn't really a fan for it but I think it does and we we don't have 40 people watching anymore and as a look we have we have 15 attendants but many of them are housing employees and and they handful of residents I think the Zoom thing does allow a lot of flexibility so I think maybe we'll chat about it as a board and I mean if we went back face to face the room certainly wouldn't wouldn't house the 40 people that used to show up here but I don't know we'll discuss I mean do you do you miss us Pam is that why yes I miss you the last thing is I hate to bring this up but there's so much talk about windows that I'm an autonomy manna we still have 44 apartments in this building they never got new windows and I hope that the housing authority is looking into the funding that we get those windows replaced so it's just to think as I'm getting complaints from people living in the middle those 44 attendants you know complaining how come we get some most of us got new windows and they didn't yeah so it's just it's just something I hope the housing authority is looking into to rectify soon agreed and that's all it's all I have I hope you all have a pleasant evening all right thank you moving on I don't don't see anybody from Chestnut or Cusack I see Jen Hernandez thanks Brian so last month I mentioned that the tenant association would be passing out a maintenance survey to all the units down here and we've actually done that and to expand on it a bit we broke it up room by room and addressed potential issues more in the areas in each room and so that the floors were covered on that that survey Brian so we will have information shortly excellent excellent the residents have actually been really cooperative and we're willing to do the survey it's been done anonymously however it was broken up by area and by building so each survey had a number on it that you know corresponded to each building or each unit therefore you know we figured that if it was anonymous but that we'd have more of a response so when I collect that we're actually starting to collect them now we've got about a third of them so far and you know once we have the them all we'll just compile the data and look forward to the results and sharing them with with all of you right great and I'm sure Chris can come up with the battle plan in terms of how to attack some of these things yeah it was it was really thorough and if you guys would like you know be happy to show it show it to you yeah could you could you do that could you email out one of the blanks maybe yeah absolutely it was um you know we tried to be pretty thorough and then at the bottom we left a spot for you know in case we missed something or there's something that we didn't think of and we included pests in that as well but so we could have an overall idea of and it's actually that's the one thing I've actually noticed it's it's a lot more than I thought so I think this will be really helpful to you guys and to us so that we can you know work together and work on these things because some of them are small and they won't be huge capital improvement projects and but it'll make a big difference in each unit good good very good okay so next Jack can you remind me when the energy audit um that Chris had referred to at the president's meeting could you remind me when that was when that is or was or I I can't I can't remember what you're referring to I I know that a lean application maybe that's what you was referring was what he was referring to I think somebody I thought he said somebody was coming out but we can check that later um yeah um the grievance procedure Jack so about three weeks ago around um actually I think it was the same similar to the day around the day that you had emailed me the grievance procedure um I had spoken with um Rich Richard Bob who's who's our representative from DHG Brian uh Ben Stone it's not Bob it's not Bob how is he Bob Pilatia yeah so I spoke with his um with his boss Carrie Suzer in that particular day um Jack she had said that the um the grievance procedure had been approved and um I asked her oh when we had uh we had spoken in via email and you know you weren't aware of that so I said oh great that's wonderful when was when did that happen and she said oh recently so if you want to maybe check in with them because you know they said everybody's on I sent them another follow-up email today so hopefully they can clarify that soon yeah so you might want to I don't know if you messaged her but you might want to message her since she was the one who's who said that it was it was approved and that was like three weeks ago she was also on that email so she'll be able to okay interview to that okay well hopefully she'll be able to get you an answer and I know we don't want to talk about advocates anymore but I just had one question so they were was that who was here recently at one of our units on Gardner street looking at the windows Jack I would believe so if it was out of the window study would be advocates yeah okay so so so I'm just a little concerned because they went to one unit well that's what I was told the first one week and then next week I was told they went another unit but it was in the duplexes but I'm not so like is that all they're gonna go to well they wouldn't be inspecting every window I mean this is not every window Brian but I mean one unit yeah because because they're they're coming up with um approximate measurements and things like that so it's I mean the you know it's so it's not like they have to inspect every single window in the place I mean they look at them and then they come up with a plan right right I understand not every window in the place absolutely of course that would be ludicrous but um so if maybe we could find out if they actually did go to the duplexes because I'm pretty sure that they did not but if I'd like to be proved wrong um so because those windows are totally different than the breaks obviously um so can we try and find could Jack could you look into that maybe so that they're still in the process of their study so if they haven't been there they they will be there okay but we can definitely confirm you know whether they've been there when they get you know and I'm sure they'll they'll be there again and they'll be doing whatever they else they need to to move forward with their study okay so just try and keep me in the loop if you don't mind I can follow up to find out if they've been to a monotomy manner the duplexes so far okay awesome um now one other question so do we did we get any um answers as far as what happened last month where where some where the ball was dropped in regards to the entry of the units uh in building eight do I need to elaborate yeah okay sorry Ryan I was referring to um when the clean and staff from the other property came and opened the basements and the camera people were in the basements through the afternoon and the residents were you know we you would ask Jack to get some some answers or find out about how that actually happened and who where the ball dropped do we find out anything as a result we we did do an investigation um identified communication breakdowns and and now and our confidence that future communication breakdowns will not happen or you know we'll minimize the risk for um okay was anything communicated to the residents that were in that building you know telling them you know I'm sorry that people were in your homes without your knowledge or anything oh you're referring to notices not going out to the units to my knowledge not going out to units and the units being left open all day yeah because that's really they weren't happy about that and they didn't feel very secure the property manager notified of Jack do we know they did not they did not have any notification no after the fact after the fair no to the best of my knowledge no yeah did you look into it yeah please because yeah they they feel like they feel like they were just kind of left hanging um and nobody really addressed it at all with them whatsoever um happened again yeah yeah I definitely hoping not um okay uh along the same lines um um IntelliBeam Jack you'd meet you know me five days ago about them and see you were re-evaluating um is it is it true that they didn't pull a permit for the ones that they did I'm not aware of that I'll I'll have to look into that but I'm to my knowledge they followed all the proper procedures okay so it appears we're not we're not going with them since so I had gotten an email from Chris Monday morning about um Joe the electrician doing um maintenance on our existing camera network um and so he was here Friday when you had emailed me um seeing that you guys were re-evaluating and determining if you wanted to proceed with IntelliBeam but um it was Joe looked like he was doing um maintenance on Friday but um Chris Chris's email on Monday Joe was already here and I think it was Monday and I don't know if he was here Tuesday but definitely today installing new cameras and I mean I think the definition of maintenance is the process of maintaining and or preserving something and installing cameras doesn't necessarily fall under maintenance so Joe going to be going forward with the cameras then it appears in not IntelliBeam but we're still reviewing you know how we're going to move forward with with IntelliBeam and Joe Gerrard is performing some um some some maintenance to see what what cameras are salvageable as money savings measure as well as a just a way in which we can move forward in the intro right and he installs new cameras as well he does is assigned to him huh he said he does whatever is assigned to him no that's fine I just it's just because we already have we had the company working on it and so now you know I was made aware that he was doing maintenance and then I saw him installing cameras so it's just I'm just trying to what's going on here as far as who's going to be doing it who's going to get paid to do it and there was money budgeted for it so just trying to understand what's going on that's all yeah I don't have to look into it I have to talk to the director maintenance just to get a better understanding of of the full scope just for me too maybe there were instances where a camera was added to because a camera was no longer operable who are no they were no they those cameras in in different spots and then one of the pictures that in television had put in the building they he put a camera in that today okay yeah all right I'll look into that I see okay what I just feel I think that at a good step that you could take to it might be like grievance procedures towards the things that you've been mentioned in with like maintenance and then the eight houses that didn't get a notice and had people in it um I mean you've mentioned that here but maybe the next step to figure stuff out you know if a lot of people feel upset might be filling out some grievance reports yeah I absolutely can speak to them about that and see if they're interested and suggest it to them definitely I mean unfortunately that until Jack gets a an official email from Carrie saying approving the grievance procedure that we voted on he can't distribute it out yet but you know seems like Carrie will probably get back to him soon once he's get it and he'll just feel like we talked about right but I mean they can someone can file they don't someone can file a grievance prior to that I mean because the housing authority had grievance procedure in place this isn't the first one we that they've had you guys have had right you had one before Jack just saw this one one I would think I would think so I mean whatever was whatever was in existence and if they want to do that that's fine yeah well that and then so one of the state regulations right this second I don't recall which one it was but said that the kind of association was supposed to see the grievance procedure and sign it before it was submitted but it's you know I've already I've looked at it since so but maybe next time we can follow that regulation okay I do believe that we did send this something off for the residents to sign just related to the procedure and then also the panelists for the for the for the panel I'm sorry well right for the panel but it was the procedure itself is what it is what the regulation was referring to so maybe just if next time in the future if you update it we could try and just follow the regulation that would be good but yeah Carrie said it was approved and that was three weeks ago Brian so hopefully she'll like you said she'll get it to him soon but people should be able to still file a grievance so I mean if they if they have one regardless of sure under the old system but you can't use the new paperwork until we with officially I'm surprised that she would have told you that three weeks ago and not not tell us jack though huh yeah because like jack and I had communicated via email about the procedure and he had actually sent it to me the same day that I spoke to you she was on that email Carrie was on that no the email that jack sent to me jack had said I had asked jack for the grievance procedure a copy of it and he had sent it to me right back and so um but at the time and he had said that you know had hadn't been approved he was waiting approval and submitted it and so when Carrie I spoke to Carrie had spoken to Carrie later that day and she had said it's approved and I was like what like oh well jack doesn't know that you know I was like jack that I we don't know that jack doesn't know that and she's like oh well it was recently but recently now it was three weeks down the road you know jack you need to let nick back in all right what else Jen anything else no Brian I think I'm done for tonight all right I don't see I don't have any chats here anybody there was a couple of chats beforehand though yeah I don't have any chats anybody from from the public wishing to speak here so anybody wants to know if we're gonna pay for heat so so any other any any other questions on the board jack anything else no no oh you're asking if I have any questions no okay I'm so do we have a question with June well actually Marta would like to switch Marta what's your question I love yes hi how are you everybody good how are you first nothing thank you so much for taking my question I have few ones okay but first nothing let me go back on time a few weeks ago I asked you jack about the camera you remember you didn't have the question and you're going to find out like normally you do about the the question they asked you the one was why they they have to go inside in the basement and where going to connect the electric power well so I think at that point I indicated that you know there's a lot of aspects to the to the security camera project and you know I'm obviously not a subject matter expert and everything and there's obviously certain components of it given it's the what it is that you know we wouldn't be able to really talk and detail about but what I can verify is that there are any cameras in individual basements and I can verify that individuals electricity is not being tapped into for those cameras great sorry clarify that for me please and simple as well don't go too far so I don't want to understand wrong the things you're a minor jack jack just said that the cameras installed in anybody's basement and nor is anybody's electricity being used to the cameras okay so but what he the he didn't answer the question any of the books he did you know so no no he said the I they they don't they cannot tell me why they did it and they don't they they don't connect from me or from our house the electricity but he didn't say where are they going to take where are they going to take the electricity and the second thing he didn't say why they're going in the basement okay well unfortunately I think I might have something that might have for this go ahead for real so I'm trying to ask around about this too because I was a little concerned too mostly how the letter came out it sounded like they were going to put cameras in the basement I think I sent you I read it to you right it was crazy but I did ask and I did receive an explanation of why they had to come to the basements I don't remember but I think that it might make me and Marta feel better and probably a lot of other tenants if maybe we can see the meters because I did hear that you'll have to add another meter where that will be charged to the cameras so I think that maybe if we know where these meters add and we're making sure that the tenants know you know here's your meter here's their meeting and here's the here's the camera meter I think I think it'll it'll help us all out Ferala so sorry it's Jen here Ferala so the one that's on my building there's a meter on the end of my building and I believe it goes it's connected to the main office I think I'm on point with that but so I as far as I think that there's meters if you look on the buildings I might be wrong but if you look on the buildings there's boxes on the buildings typically those have have meters in them I have they're not open so I can't see them but I mean typically that's maybe you can just have a walkthrough just to make 100% sure where's the extra meter and we just want to make sure and I don't blame you I felt the same way I don't know just that Jack I assume that you want to know if somebody going to your house to do anything you want to know the why they're going inside of your house to do it is you're right to know everything that's happening in your home because it's your home that's what I asked you if you can be so kind to give me answers to that and I'm talking about the cameras I see around because they they other standards told me and I noticed they really the level where the cameras are put it on is too low and they can see inside the our houses so I I am concerned about that too okay I don't that doesn't what if you had Chris will walk through down there with Fiorella and and just go over I mean I can I can I go in that walkthrough as well because I yeah I think no I think you know I I would be extremely shocked if a camera was able to look in your house I you know Brian Brian like can I just can I interject for sex so the cameras they're not on the fixtures yet the ones that Marta's referring to the really low ones and they're actually they're directly behind so if you have that if you have in the middle of the courtyard and you look to your right right in the middle of it they're on pretty much directly behind someone's backdoor and they're very low and but there's no cameras on them yet Brian so it's really a walkthrough is and you know isn't going to really do anything right now because there's no cameras on those fixtures yet and looking at the cameras Brian isn't going to help like the if if they're going to actually still put the cameras there they've only put like I said one on my the fixture on my building and so I mean but until like I had asked Jack nice and helpful to all of the residents because everybody is really concerned about the level of that they're at if someone from the tenant association either myself or Marta or the three of us if once they're all in place if you could show one of us at least that they're not going to go into the units that would be very helpful because I think that's I think I I think that's fine let's do that because oh I mean I know a lot of the residents and if I you know someone they trust sees that their homes are not being you know invaded then I think that it might help so let's do this that makes sense so obviously the cameras have put there for security purposes you know which I problems work whatsoever you know I safety yeah thanks why don't we do this once the thing is all set up and operational I think it's appropriate if we have the president the association come up to the office wherever they're being broadcast and you can look and verify they were not looking into anybody's kitchen and and then you can spread the word I don't I don't I'm not going to tell them but remember when I joined that nobody information about the cameras it's not what I'm the goal is the goals that people can rest easy and feel safe and not in right right exactly so let's do that so once they done once they done will we'll get in touch with you Jen have you come up and view them and verify that they're not looking into kitchens and stuff all right I appreciate that very much yeah yeah so now about the agenda today you know I have a few questions remember the young coming from another culture so bear with me the a student that you are doing for the window okay that you spend the morning to make this a student and I don't know easy if you're really doing in the and the houses or or or is he out in in all the houses anyway it's just a team Mada they went to one so far from an empty yeah yeah yeah Mada Mada can we can we move on from that I think we've beat up the windows sufficiently I mean I have full faith in Jack and with this window No no no no I cannot know have nothing to do for do you just say in all in the agenda I want to ask you something the process normally the process for any project that you have it is long it's very long because they have to pass for a lot of steps okay so it's to this is going to be made for different projects all the time so to to save time for different projects that we can do in the future that's the student cannot be done for the whole house in a step to do one part and other part and another part and every time we have to spend money in that studio and time in do it i don't know if you explain myself no i see what you're saying you're saying that is there any way that during the study for the windows they can also maybe i think she's asking more of like can we have a general study because right now we're going to pay for the windows and then they're going to look at the bricks and see that so she's saying can we have like a general study that actually goes to the whole house well actually um unbeknownst to you jen what you just did in terms of this survey platform to go go forward so for instance and it kind of falls into answering your question matter so if jen's survey comes in and if we you know if you get 90 95 participation in and everybody's reporting um um leak bathrooms for instance well then we know to now do a study on the whether we do it internally or externally now we review every bathroom in the entire complex and then we can replace them so so i you wouldn't hire a company just to go through the building and do a survey on every aspect of the unit but i think with jen's survey that you just did i think it gives us an opportunity gives chris first part which the director of maintenance an opportunity to look yeah but but when you have a project any project that you have in mind you have to process to see a following procedure what the procedure for all the the project is the same is uh you know to uh do this student about any any problem that we have is i don't um i'm not i'm not understanding it what what we seem so what i'm trying to say is every time every time did you do any projects okay in this moment we were talking about windows so windows is going to take different steps to they can be made okay they going to be students they going to go to spare they going to be uh and other things and you know different steps and they take a long time to do these projects no that's what i understand oh yeah these things take a long time yeah so if one the the step this is you have to do it because it's in the proceeding for any project that you wanted is to do that one student if you do one general you don't have to pay it a hundred times to do it different students you do one one oh okay i see what you're saying so but the simple answer is no you can't do that the state the state directs a lot of this stuff anything over $50,000 has got to be managed as John Greco went into a great deal on so it's so you know there's all sorts of hoops we've got to jump through red tape i mean it's it's believe me if we had the money and the ability just to run this as a private company we would be done with all this stuff in 20 minutes and uh but unfortunately we've got to follow all the state guidelines um and the bureaucracy that goes with it so it's it's just them all right i understand and now it's about the you know it's not going to talking about the kitchen by the way i move into sunset night so i can be you know the the the the the kitchen but i want to talk about the kitchen in kitchen but history tell you to don't repeat the same mistakes okay so what i see in the in our kitchen is the program the big program is the material they use it for the floor for the counter they're a very cheap and bad material oscar if you have a cheap material in any construction it's not going to be durable for years so if you're going to spend every year you can give it do it cheaper material but if you want something durable for years you have to pay a little more for a better material yeah so again again the simple answer is the cold bidding system so when the state does work like this they don't spec it out for beautiful italian marble tile they'll spec it out for vct which is much more inexpensive right don't be condescending okay she's actually the most expensive thing she's asking for so let me finish from what are your countries the indication do you house what kind of material you have in your floors and what you can do that you have in your counters so let me and i'm not being condescending i'm stating a point the state doesn't allow us to put fancy very expensive stuff they typically are not talking about marble okay i'm talking about durable sustainable material okay because the floor our floor is not a tile really is not a tile it's a plastic thing or it's called a big difference between a larger material and a durable material you got my point i get your point but i don't think in the end the state doesn't spec out fancy tile they specced out when they built those places and redid the kitchens in 2009 they specced it out for vct tile which was inexpensive at the time and that's what they spec out they're not going to put you know marble or ceramic tile and i'm not being disrespectful i'm just telling you this right i don't think she's looking for that like i don't think that's what she's getting out like i mean even anything is better than what what they put there brian it's it's really pitiful and you could see like it's at market basket it's similar at market basket or in a doctor's office like it's really bad brian and so i don't she's not looking for marbles she's not looking for ceramic tiles she's not looking for anything spectacular just something that you know might might not break when you or suck or when you back and i agree and i agree my point is that that ceramic tile is going to last an awful lot longer than bct so of course of course just somewhere in the middle you know i nobody's looking for for let's do this i think going forward yeah jen you're the president association so i i would like that you bring up like these issues we spend an awful lot of time on this tonight these issues really belong in the maintenance meetings because rather than have us hack hash out different theories and stuff in the maintenance meeting you've got jack and chris uh who then go down and meet with the folks and so if one of these apartments has all the tiles are totally off well then they'll put it in the maintenance plan to fix it i mean these yeah brian we asked in the in the in the maintenance survey i asked about the tiles if they're broken or if they're lifted and i also asked how many each unit like i said how many are broken right right so i really i really gotta handle on yeah i did as much as possible but there's one thing if i could ask brian so the other night um there was a meet and greet at the um if we you know for lin which was was nice um from what i was told i had to dentist appointment but um so when the rest when several of the residents left that meet and greet um they they kind of had an understanding that the buildings are being wrapped because that's what they were told we're wrapping the buildings that was a statement they were also um under the understanding the windows are going to take three to four years for us to get windows um and so brian it's been a long time since anything major has been done down here from my understanding because i've only been here for four years but it's imperative that residents are not told things that are not facts yeah because honestly it's going to cause so much so many problems for me and everybody else brian and it's an exception and the amount of like i had to do damage control after that after that meeting and who told them who told them we're going to wrap the buildings um we don't need to talk about that on here yeah i'm happy to talk to you but i'm not gonna you know i don't want to do that but unfortunately you know like this is a public meeting and so obviously this public meeting jack gave a presentation and the presentation the potential of wrapping buildings so this was this was at this was at the Greek at the at the community um the the what is it called the life and skill sign yeah so it's just these like we we cannot we can't be told things that are not facts it's really it's it's gonna cause problems and i don't i'm trying to do really good things down here brian i don't have time to do this control all i i like answers to simple questions that yeah they're not no i told jack i'm looking to derail anything i'm not looking to cause problems i'm looking to actually do quite the opposite so that you know so any questions i ask it's always good intention so that i can i can you know give answers and and help it's not because of any other reason than that so you know it's just really important that when i ask questions if if they're not if they're intrusive or you know out of line then just you know i need to be told that so that you know you know uh my view of this is is the the the presidents certainly have and anybody can call jack but the presidents you know have have a a different status where you really you know could feel free to pick up the phone and call jack in chris um anytime anytime whether reasonable time i mean yeah but any would get back to you in a very reasonable time if not taking a call right away answer these things you know i i don't really necessarily feel that so much so we can work on it though i think that we can work on it um you know it took a couple days to get the answers and i had a meeting that night and i i did email the questions late fair fair to say so it's it's not all on on that but i know it took three days to get two and a half days to get answers so but i again i emailed the questions late in the day so i'm going to take put that on myself too however um it's it's really it's been really difficult brian i'm sorry like you know and so i i just need this to be worked out because um i get asked i brian it takes me sometimes an hour to get into my car when i leave that my house because i stop to talk to residents all the time and when i don't have answers for them it's embarrassing for me it's and i'm embarrassed for you guys too because it really looks bad that we can't you know work together and i can't seem to get answers about very simple things well it's no there's no disrespect and telling somebody that you don't know what you'll find out you know what i mean yeah but i've already asked brian this is a problem like i'm you know what i mean it's like it's it's been very difficult to get answers and um so it's just something we need to work on and i'm hoping that um we can do that yeah so um i i don't disagree with you and i think perhaps next month um maybe we can do a face-to-face jack with the with the presidents and you know myself and and if some of the board members want to come up and do more of a high level um not get into the weeds and talk about you know um specifics but more a high level of of you know charting out a different level of communication what do we do is it an email chain is it you know is this there's got to be some better way maybe um but also you know in in do fairness for jack's time you know there's a lot of units there's a lot of folks and and you know which means there's always going to be a lot of issues and maybe there's a way to address it you know with a an appropriate amount of time or something i typically try not to email him like a hundred times you know i try to kind of get all my questions at once and um try and group them so you know i don't want to bombard him either but you need some answers so if we'll just whatever we can try and figure this out that would be awesome me too yeah i mean i truly think email is the best way to do it and and you know he'll get back to you when you know he'll look at it and if it's a priority i mean in in the subject line what if it's a priority i mean but you've got to just kind of feel out what's a priority what's not you know what i mean yeah but if you cannot go to the both of these things they go to you know involve different awards to look pretty or the sense but it's not easy to talk like two persons talking in a chair and discuss in you know right away what is it what so so i think jack maybe are you willing to maybe we could um try and come up with a better way to communicate more efficiently i'm always looking for ways in which i can you know communicate more efficiently that the incident that's in questions i believe i received the email after working hours it was probably four or forty four fifty on a wednesday and i did respond by either late morning on friday or early afternoon on friday to all the questions to the questions that were asked in that email hmm okay yeah our meeting is on but it either way it's fine jack like but in the it's it's not the first time so let's just try and work together and figure out something okay so you know thank you for the answer oh you're welcome about it so jack and i work on a date in april uh probably asked after easter at this point to be honest with you which will will invite the presidents um and we'll have a let's have a discussion on how to how to maybe move forward and improve things let's call it that way but um all right any other nobody else on this uh chat list so with that do we have a motion to adjourn don't move don't move a second okay move by next second by fierell all of favoured you in yes uh yes nick yes fierella okay that's you in the info and um thank you for a lively meeting tonight i just i just want to know what i want to know what brand of coffee juan and fierella had today so all right all right thanks we'll see you