 We want to begin, so we encourage you to come down and meet us, right? It's a huge audience, it's a huge hall, but we actually want to have a discussion with you. So we'd appreciate if you can join us and be closer to us. And it would be easier for us to also give you a mic and ask questions and interact. So please join us as close as you can to the stage. Wonderful, so welcome to the, I think this is the last panel for the education space and I've kept almost, I think, the best for last. This is about the gender gap and education and the reason why I kind of decided to have this panel is because I think this is a hugely important topic. So we all talk about the gender gap all the time in the movement. We know that knowledge gaps exist and we do all sorts of activities to kind of fix it, to try to fix it. And I think one really important avenue to go about it is to do some activities that are connected to education initiatives, programs, call it whatever you want in your own context. But the idea is very simple. If you're already collaborating at a university or at a school or work with different communities in an educational setting, then bringing up the gender gap is one important thing that you can do. And what I've tried to do today is avoid the good old lecture, right? The good old lecture type. We actually try to have a discussion and I try to keep it very diverse. So I'd like to introduce the panelists for today. And just to give you, before we do that, just to give you a quick overview of what is planned for today, we're going to do the intros and then the majority of the session is going to be questions, a discussion between ourselves and we invite you to participate in that discussion to ask questions to add to what we're saying. As you'll see, I've made an effort to bring different voices from around the world. I think it's hugely important for the global audience listening and hearing the room to be able to see different types of attempts, trials, experiments to try to to fix the situation, different avenues to tackle it. And I really hope that you are all inspired by what you will hear today. To try to do something in your own context, in your own language and with your own community. So I hope you enjoy. By the way, my name is Shani Evenstein. I didn't say so, but hi everyone. And we will begin by introducing, meeting our panelists and the first would be Anna. So Anna, go ahead, please introduce yourself. Thank you very much and thank you for inviting me and you be here. So it's very interesting for me. My name is Anna Wobbe. I'm a historian of technology. I work at the Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenburg at the Division for Science, Technology and Society. And we teach engineers courses in humanities and social scientists, you might say. And I have a course called gender and technology, where we discuss different gender issues related to engineering and technology. And it has about 50 students every year. And in that course, I also give them a Wikipedia exercise, which is why I'm here today. And this exercise is that they get to edit Wikipedia and then reflect on their edits. And I guess the meaning that's twofold the idea of the exercise. The first, of course, is to enhance their own knowledge and the knowledge on Wikipedia by taking a subject that we used during the course, or a subject connected to gender technology, and write about it on Wikipedia. But the other one is reflecting on their own work a lot. And actively reflect on the technical, social, and political parts of knowledge infrastructure. Because we discuss the liberational and the conservative sides of technology in terms of gender during the course. And all of these things, inclusive and excluding spaces, all of the ways the politics about knowledge production is, in a way, I feel, embodied in Wikipedia in many different ways, both the liberating part and the conservative part. And through editing, they get to talk about this with each other. Thank you so much, Anna, for being here. Also representing our community that's hosting us today. So we're super excited to have a representative from Sweden with us. And next is Rosie. Hi, everyone. I'm Rosie Stephenson. Good night. I'm from the US. I live in California. And I am the visiting scholar at Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts. I am working on the Women Writers Project. And briefly, what that includes, is creating articles on English language Wikipedia about pre-20th century women writers, English language, broadly construed. So poets and novelists and journalists and translators, memoirists, editors, publishers, and so forth, as well as their works. So their poems, their essays, their novels, as well as other things related to women writers. For example, the conferences they convened, the publishing houses they created. I've created over 450 biographies since I started this work. And then maybe two dozen other articles associated with their works. And the other things, such as conferences and publishing houses and so forth. Thank you for having me here. And Rosie is quite, I would say, humble. Because you're also one of the, at least one person in charge of, one critical thing that happened in this realm, which is women in red. And the whole idea, so maybe you can say something about that. I am the co-founder of a community called Women in Red. This is our four-year anniversary. We were founded in 2015 at Wikimania, Mexico. What we do is we create new articles related to women. That's women's biographies, women's works, broadly construed, such as the paintings they painted, the sculptures they sculpted, the schools they founded, the conferences they convened. And then articles about women's issues. Think women's health, women's suffrage, and so forth. We started off in English language, and now we are a community of 24 other languages. I met today a woman who said in India, we do women in red in three other languages. We aren't connected with you on Wikidata yet, but today we're going to go ahead and take care of that. So, 27 language versions of our community. We've created over 100,000 articles in English language Wikipedia alone, related to these two women in general. I will add again that this is article creation, not article improvement. Very important to improve articles also. It's just not within our scope. Someone else works on that. And the other thing that's interesting about what we do is we don't care who the editor is. We say, just write the fricking articles. Thank you so much. Justine, you're next. Thank you. I'm Justine Toms. I'm from Bulgaria, and I'm teaching at New Bulgarian University in Sofia. I teach in media and communications department and also in marketing department. Students, and among my trainings, of course, I do have also Wikipedia with Vasya, actually. We do this almost 11 years, I think. This year will be the 12th. Year of doing these trainings at the university. So what we have in Bulgaria is that nowadays, the gender gap is not that big. But all the Bulgarian women in science, arts, history, they were not very well represented on the Wikipedia. So among our projects, during years, we had also such a mission to accomplish this whole. Of course, it's still there because we have to do quite some work to come over all the history and have an article for each of the acknowledged women in Bulgarian history. Yeah, so that's it. And Justine is also very humble. She's the author of about 15 books and a poet herself. And one of the first mothers of the Internet in Bulgaria. So we're really happy to have you here and the work that you've been doing, have been enabling women across the Internet in Bulgaria and in your community. So it's really inspiring work. Another lady from Bulgaria that we have today is Vasya. Do you want to please introduce yourself? Hello. I'm also from Bulgaria and Vasya. I'm also known as the evil spirit behind the Hundred Week Days. And one of the things which, well, you probably already know about it, but I'm not sure whether you know how many articles about women were written in the frames of the Hundred Week Days. And there were so many people out of the, like, more than 300 nowadays in more than 50 different language versions. And quite a lot of them are pursuing the goal to write 100 articles in 100 days only about women. And if it's not just, like, if there's not 100 Week Days, there are people who are doing, like, 52 wiki weeks. Right now we have such a person in Poland who is writing every week another article of a notable Polish woman, biography, and very often I think that these are ready to be featured articles, like investing a lot of effort in this. In what we're doing locally, together with Yustin, we had a data tone, especially about notable women, which she mentioned. She humbly didn't mention that of all those students which every year we are training in the frames of her course in media literacy, in media communication, and online media and public relations. We actually have a lot of girls participating, like female students are, I think, the vast majority in the course. So they get training during the course. And also some of them, years after this, we are meeting on the streets and they say, hey, Wikipedia was one of the things which I remember from the whole four years training in the university. Like, it was so engaging for them. Wonderful. Thank you, Vasya. And last panelist is Manav Preet. Please. Hi, everyone. I'm Dr. Manav Preet Kaur. So I used to teach at a university in India. And I started this education program with my batch of students. And I'm really glad to share that we had approximately 15 women students and research scholars from the department. And we used to have editathons about different subjects and theme areas in Wikipedia. But then I realized that we need to expand this. And we have recently started one education program at an engineering college and one with plus one in plus two medical science students at a school in Punjab. And I have a panelist of such humble women. Manav has also been working on women well-being in India with the UN. So do you want to say briefly something about that? Yeah. So for last year in 2018, we realized that we have very less women in leadership roles. So we are women from 11 different states of India who represent 11 different languages. We came together and worked for creating women content, especially related to women well-being, which is not only about health concerns, but general women well-being too. So the event was conducted in October and November. And as an outcome of that, it was not only an editathon, but also a capacity-building training for women to explore their leadership potential. And then we were able to organize women trains, the radio program first ever in India in the month of March 2019. Yeah. Thank you so much. And you'll probably be wondering why I am here. So beside hosting this panel, I'm actually an educator and I work at a researcher. And I work at Tel Aviv University. And in 2013, I opened the first four-credit elective course, I think in the world, to focus on Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects. And I started it in med school, actually. And my students, each of them, in every course write two new articles. And I think in 2015, I adjusted the course model from medical school to the rest of the campus. So this second course was then approved by the university rector. And then that means that every undergraduate student at Tel Aviv University can basically take an elective course on Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects. And last year, I evolved this open course for the campus again, featuring Wikidata for the first time in academia. And why is it relevant to this panel? Because in every single course, in every single semester, there is no course that I will give or lecture that I will give without speaking about the gender gap. And after a year or two of mentioning it when I presented Wikipedia and Wikimedia project, I felt it's not enough. And then I started to focus my students to work as part of their course work, as part of their two assignments, the two articles that they need to write on women. And that means that we actually ended up in my Wikimedia course in the first one. We started focusing on women's health. When I started out, there was no women's health category on Hebrew Wikipedia. So throughout my course, we've now populated it, started to at least. It's a work in progress, right? I'm just one course, small, humble. But we are making an impact. We now have approximately 100 articles on women's health that weren't there before the course. So that's not too bad, I would say, for an academic course. And in the second course, the one that's open to all students from all disciplines and campus, they choose from the women in red lists. And this is why I asked Rosie to talk about women in red because I think that sort of purely Wikipedia or Wikimedia initiative that you had in the community completely has ripple effect over the whole community in ways that you might have not predicted. So that's one example of how we can utilize things that are happening in our community, initiatives by other people, and then bring them back to our courses, to our work, to our context. And for us, it meant, you know, creating as part of our Wiki women initiative in Israel, creating the women in red list in Hebrew, and then working on the list as part of the coursework. And again, that's been a tremendous help also because the students, if how many of you, just a show of hands, how many of you have been doing educational work? Oh, many of you. How many have not done anything related to educational settings at all? A bunch of you. Okay. So those of you who did try, something might know that when you tell people, go at it, one of the first issues that some of them might have is, hey, I don't know what to work on, right? And when you are even in a workshop, you might lose a lot of time just choosing your topic. So having lists, offering something to students, is hugely important. It saves a lot of time, focuses them. And having such elaborate lists, give them different ideas, different options to choose from. In women in red, we have, it's ordered by profession, right? Or themes. So they can choose the theme they want. They don't have to, it's so diverse, they can choose whatever they want, but there's always something for everyone. So this is just an example of how we can incorporate working on the gender gap. And I think you could understand from just hearing the intros, how diverse it could be. So at this point, now that you know all of us, I would really like to go to the discussion questions and start out by asking you how you were able to kind of persuade your institutions to let you do this. Because it could be controversial, right? How many of you have had issues when you talk on the gender gap and people opposing, oh, these women again and their agenda and feminism and not appreciating the work that you do and not wanting to have this political aspect inside academia? Did any of you have this? And how did you get started? Let me start. Actually, we don't have any issue with this, as we are European country, hopefully. And this already means a lot. So I would say that we sometimes have much more troubles with the oldest Wikipedians with a little bit more conservative approach toward the topics than with the institutions. So if I can add. We had one project last year with the Global Libraries Foundation Bulgaria who are responsible for equipping the libraries all over the country. So we got an invitation to deliver trainings in media literacy and Wikipedia. And this was because we already had some pilot trainings in three places in the country. So they wanted us to cover the whole country. Like we had like 30 trainings during the last year. And what happened was that just because the majority of librarians are females, we got this like almost 100% of, yeah, bridging the gender gap. Like we had almost 100% of women attending and it was like 500 women, 500 librarians that were trained last year. And this happened so naturally. Like sometimes maybe it is important to start or to invest in weak education which organically has women as audience and not to fight with institutions. Like the moment when we had this project, this is a good starting point when we start collaborating with other institutions and we already have overcome this as a challenge probably. Anna, was it as easy for you to just put it into the curriculum or? Absolutely. I mean, since I already have the, I think the difficult part in Salmoush was probably getting the gender course in there. But once it's there within it, I can do whatever I want. So I have not had any pushback at all on that. Yeah, actually that has also been my experience. I mean the moment you have your foot in the door, as they say, and they let you, they allow you to do the course. The rest of it is usually up to you to make. The only thing that you always have to be conscious, at least at our university, is student feedback, which the university takes very seriously. So if it's really bad, it will be reflected. But for as long as you're doing it in a balanced way, there shouldn't be an issue. Manava, I'm curious if it was as easy for you. No, so it was not. The situation was completely different in India because the whole structure, the whole governance system is different in India. So because I was working at a government university, I discussed this with you a multiple times, that getting a permission to have an education program at master's level just at the place of their usual seminars that they get out, or the usual assignments that they submit during their course was not at all easy. But thankfully, the head of the department was quite supportive and he said, okay, we can't run this program officially. But if there are some students who are interested in doing this and you want some space or internet or other facilities, we are there to help you. But you can run one unofficial club here so that it is not mandatory for everybody to join, but whosoever is willing can join. But as far as this Vicky women well-being project is concerned, because I used to visit the hospitals to collect samples, right? So one of the directors of the hospitals was a lady, and the major problem she was facing was that the women were not returning after being diagnosed with a disease, right? So she was like, we are really willing to do something that can help us bring those women back for treatment. So that is when it's actually a strike us that we can do something to raise awareness about the health concerns because they had some misconception about the treatment process and that is why they're too reluctant to actually come back for treatment. So that is how this concept actually started and we discussed this with other women from different languages and everybody in India was facing the same problem. Every medical institute was reporting the same issue. So we did collaborate with some NGOs who were going out to villages to educate people. So their constraints were that they didn't have information in their native language. So that is why this project started. That is how we started creating articles about women health concerns in native languages. And then we are also planning to actually distribute some hard copies of those articles to the NGOs so that they can actually distribute it to people in villages or living in remote areas so we can do it. But yes, there's one thing which we have always seen is that if there is a women in leading role at a certain organization and they see that women are willing to do something to help other women, right? They're always up for it. So that is the kind of support we have always received. Yeah. And Rosie, what about you? What sparked women in red and your current research position? In 2013, Emily Templewood created a project on English Wikipedia called Wiki Project Women Scientists. And in the same year, a woman named Sarah Sturge created Wiki Project Women Artists. And that got me to thinking that I'm a woman writer. My mother was a woman writer. My grandmother was a woman writer. And there was no project dedicated to women writers. So in 2014, I created on English Wikipedia what we call Wiki Project Community called Wiki Project Women Writers. We started off with about 5,000 articles within our domain. And now there's something like 36,000 articles. Articles about women's biographies and women's written works broadly construed. In the next two, three years or so, the Wiki Educator foundation approached me and said that the Northeastern University was looking for a visiting scholar to work with their women writers project and bring Wikipedia into that project. Would I be interested? And I jumped quickly and said yes. And so that's how I started my work in this way. So in a way, your Wikipedia work kind of invaded your actual life. Wikipedia life kind of collided with my educational life. Exactly. Which is the best when that happens. It's wonderful. This brings me actually to now hearing how you all got started in a way. Some with more difficulties than others maybe. But I'm sure that you all had challenges along the way. And I'm kind of interested in hearing and I think it would be meaningful to the audience thinking about and I have to say this, of course, we now that you're here in the audience hearing us, we look at each and every one of you as agents in a way. You can go to your communities now and spark new initiatives and work on this and focus on this. So I'm trying to have this panel as a almost a helping tool to you, right? Having like listening to some of the experience of women who's already done it. And so curating some of the do's and don'ts, things that were challenges and how they were overcome and learning what works for women who have done this or men might be helpful to you as well. So let's start with the challenges. And I'm wondering what were some of the challenges that you encountered. Manav, you actually said one thing and that is they didn't allow me to do it formally. And so I kind of found a back door. And I think for me hearing you say that, the takeaway is find the right people to work with, go to the low hanging fruits, which also ties to what Vasya was saying about working with librarians, which are usually our best friends, right? In education, education and libraries usually go hand in hand. And so finding the people who are already interested in this topic is valuable. Another thing that you already said is trying to wrap it in a different way, right? Don't sell it as the gender gap. We are going to fix the internet and be all feministic. But hey, let's tackle women's health or let's tackle women writers et cetera, et cetera. So this is to all of you. What are some other challenges and ways to overcome them? Anna, I'm curious what... Yeah, so I'm not sure if I'm the only person who started my project without ever having done anything on Wikipedia or knowing anything about it. So I got the idea from an American colleague of mine who did a similar thing on their course and I thought this sounds amazing. I need to do it. But I had never, ever, except for looking up Wikipedia. I had never done anything. So for me, I think myself was one of the biggest problems sort of just daring to go in there and then being able to tell my students to dare to go in there. Also not knowing anything about it. So it was as much a learning process for me as for them. And when they write their reflections, it's very clear that their biggest problem is also their initial fear. Like when I tell them you have to edit Wikipedia, they go, what? And overcoming this fear in myself and them, I think, has been the most challenging for me. And I've had good help from people within the Wikipedia community also, in Gothenburg specifically, Sophie, for example, and others who helped me and that's been amazing. But it's still difficult, yeah. Yeah, so maybe a takeaway from what you're saying would be work always hand in hand. And that's true to every, I would say, to every outreach, education, Glam, whatever. Always work with the local community. Make sure that you have someone who can help you and support you so you're not alone in the process in front of the community and especially if you're just starting out yourself. So that's important. And if you don't have a local community that you can tap into, there is, and this is a good place to say, there is a global community that can help you online. And we're really nice in education. I say that all the time, but we are really one of the safest and nicest spaces on Wiki, I would say. Really a bunch of people from all over the world. So you can find the right person with the right context to kind of help you. You can find who you relate to most. And there's a Facebook group you can join. It's called the Wikipedia and Education group on Facebook. There are other spaces, obviously, but this is one you can always turn to for help. So use other people, tap into the communities is a really important one. Justine, what about you? Had you had any challenges? Sure. I was thinking to share two of them. Actually, one is big and maybe every Wikipedia doing such thing is facing it at the point that when a lot of students create new articles, there is always some admin to go after them, deleting them. So it's very, very demotivating for the students. And of course, when you write your first articles, they're not perfect, but however, I think it is a big issue and we have to overcome it in a way. So during the years, we understood it's better to give a call to all the admins, at least a few of them in front, so they know this is the students' projects and they don't delete. So how did you manage it? Because this is, again, a problem. Whenever you have an educational project with lots of students writing stuff at the same time, it's always the same thing. I have my solutions, but I'm curious what you did. The solution was just in front to inform the people that this is the project. Please be kind, try not to delete everything at the time, et cetera. And the other issue that we had during the years is that in the beginning, I left freedom to students to choose the topics. And as you did mention, actually in the beginning, we found out later on that it's better to have the prepared list in front, so they much easily find what a topic to write about. And then it is also very centralized because they can see who is working on what. And this visibility also helps the quality in a way. So we have a special page for each course and with special topics for the course itself. So it helps. And the third thing is that we sometimes communicate this also on the social media because this is a way to encourage maybe other people as well to do such kind of projects. I would add too to what you said about trying to tackle the gazillion articles suddenly popping up, especially for smaller communities that are not English, could be a huge deal. On Hebrew, for instance, the whole community is like 200 active editors out of which only 70, so when I come in with a class of 50, I mean, it makes a difference. So not only do I have to kind of educate the students that hey, you have to be mindful, I actually have them work in drafts and I make them do peer reviews before they even put it in main space. And that's one of the things that have been really helpful and also educational for the students, especially the peer reviewing is a huge learning process for them as well, especially teaching them how to collaboratively work together, how to give feedback to their peers, which for many of them they're doing for the first time. So it's like they're a bit uncomfortable at the beginning, but then they get it. And it also teaches them how to behave on wiki because they will have to tackle some feedbacks. So I kind of build them into it. That's how I do it, but I'm wondering if there are other solutions that you are using. So one of the challenges when it comes to... Vasya can you speak up? One of the challenges when it comes to writing biographic articles about women traditionally is notability, lack of sources, but also the internal opposition of a more conservative community. And I'm happy to say ours is not one of them, but from the point of view of one of the international organizers of the CE Spring, I can say that there are some communities in the region where majority or more vocal people from the community will say that if she is that notable, we don't like she will deserve her article and we don't need to put special effort in writing about just because she's a woman, like deserving it on the basis and the merits of achievements in life or whatever should be enough and like the gender factor should be eliminated. What over the years this used to be an issue, but I think that nowadays like four or five years later since the beginning of the CE Spring, we managed to solve the problem by making it very clear to all the communities that the category writing about women biographies like one of the 10, and it's not recommended, it's like a glittery category, they have to live with it. So one way or another this is one of the priorities when writing in CE Spring and one of the categories that is, especially I have to check how it is in the other like 30 communities, but in our community we have one out of six prizes is especially given to editors who have invested more time in writing more articles or improving the articles about women. So if we have this in different writing competitions or in different content creation efforts, if we have this in mind in advance and it is a conscious effort to have this content, then it's just part of the rules. Yeah, I would add that specifically when it comes to the gender gap and other knowledge gaps, but I would say specifically for the gender gap on Wikipedia, one of the important things to do beside your own initiative is to kind of invest in the community, invest in bringing more people to work with you on this cause because the more people involved from the community in helping you do this online, coming to class, I really try to involve my community in the course, in coming to give a lecture about something that they specialize in because then they are engaged in my course with my students and they will help them online and I will have less resistance and so yeah, it's not been easy, right? Some communities really have clashes about the gender gap and about wanting to delete articles about women or having so few women to vote when someone puts something for deletion and you don't have enough women to show up to, and that's been a huge deal in our community at least, so investing in the community would be definitely one more thing that you kind of like have to build your community and kind of work in parallel to really succeed, I would say, in your other educational and I would say in outreach in general and Rosie, I'm curious if you had the same experience or different challenges that you encountered? Sure, no, my challenges are different. My work is more research related as a visiting scholar but something similar is building relationships with people who can help you with your work. I started by building relationships with librarians because they could help in all the ways that librarians can help with research and sources and they know people so that was helpful. There are others that do visiting scholar work and though their focus is in other areas, in other universities, we're sort of in the same boat so it's been helpful to connect with them. What I would really like, what I feel like my biggest challenge is I wish that there was someone who was doing exactly what I am doing but doing it at another university and focusing on the same topic, women writers so that there was someone that I could connect with to have conversations as it is searching for sources within such a narrow field, pre-20th century, English language, women writers, broadly construed. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of challenge and I'm up for the challenge but it would be great if there was at least one other person who was doing something similar that could help me with my research. So in a nutshell, that's my biggest hurdle. Hint hint, people. Yes, thank you Rosie. So I have to be mindful of time, we have only like five more minutes and I do want to go to best practices and to kind of talk briefly about your plans for the future and yes, I know Rosie or do you just want to continue to tell us a bit about what you're planning? I would love to. I had a feeling. I've already explained that I work on something called the Women Writers Project. It has multiple areas. The one I focus on is Wikipedia but there's another one called Women Writers in Review. Women Writers in Review started about 15 years ago at Brown University and about 10 years ago or so it moved to Northeastern University. What it focuses on is the written works of pre-20th century English language women writers and then the review, the critical review of that work and then professors within that field giving a rating to the critical reception of the work and I will give you an example. If Jane Doe wrote an essay and someone reviewed the essay, someone at Brown University or Northeastern University has reviewed the review and given it a rating that ranges from very negative, negative neutral, positive, very positive or not applicable in some cases. There are other tags that have been added to these works but what I'm focusing on is these ratings of the reviews. Right now the API exists only at Northeastern University and while the data is very rich you actually have to know to go to the Northeastern University website and then find the Women Writers Project and then find Women Writers in Review and scroll around until you finally find some data visualizations. It's not very handy. What I am working on now is a project to copy that data, not move, copy that data from Northeastern University and move it into wiki data so that the whole world has access to it and then not only access to it. I believe that someone else somewhere in the world in some language must have been doing this work too assigning a rating to a critical review of some written work and so I'm hopeful that once I've accomplished what I'm trying to do with the help of some wiki data because I can't do this by myself that others will then jump in and start bringing in their work in other languages. So we developed something very rich in wiki data because so far no one has done this. And thank you so much for bringing up wiki data. On that sense I can share that I've been experimenting with it in my own course especially since last year that I've kind of featured wiki data in my course. I really wanted to give the students an assignment that's related to wiki data and I actually tried to kind of tie it to the gender gap and what I did is I told my students just as an experiment you know you belong to some kind of faculty at a university you're affiliated you study in it could be anything right because the students come from all over campus find out how many women faculty members you have in your department and you'll be shocked that most of them are men especially as you go higher in rank and why don't you do a query that checks how many of them are on wiki data and then add everyone who's missing so this small exercise fairly small right made and then do a query again just to see if if it worked how it works and and what you added right and so that created a whole process of students some of the women approaching faculty at university and asking for a CV and starting conversations with their superiors just to add some content to wiki data and this did two things it not only created awareness for the students about more about how the gender gap exists in academia but it also created awareness to faculty who had no idea what this thing called wiki data is and how important it is so it's kind of doing a few things at the same time and and I'm really you know they loved it by the way the students really appreciated being able to do some work it wasn't too complicated it's not as complicated as writing an essay from beginning to end so it's something nice that they can see the result immediately of of their work and and it has impact so finding these small exercises to do with the students on the general gap is also important as far as I'm concerned and I'm curious Manav if you're doing something similar that works for you okay so it is nothing like we haven't explored the gender gap initiative as of now with students at the school but what we have done is because what happens when these master students they complete their course they go back because it's the beginning of their careers so they don't they don't find much time to work on wiki and that is why they leave editing on wiki so we thought that maybe we should start early and maybe we should engage students who are who have just started their specialized studies and maybe then they'll develop a habit of editing on wikipedia but rather than just telling them to edit on wikipedia we should give them a reason to work on wiki so that is why we have incorporated like two things we give them exposure and then ask them to edit on wikipedia so what under this program what we have done is that we actually took some of the medical science students to one of the premium research institutes in India and we give them exposure to how the internal organs look and how the different conditions have impact on the internal organs and how they change so they were able to actually understand how it affects the internal organs and when we went back to for the editathon they had a better understanding not only about the conditions but also about the flow of information that what comes first and what should be second third and fourth point of information in a document so this is what we have explored so far with students about editing on wikipedia but yes we have we do have plans about engaging students in wiki women webbing project and the only thing that we use last year which worked really well and the same thing which we are going to use this year and it's going to work well we are assuming is just asking them how many times they have seen their mothers taking their health seriously over their family responsibilities and if you think that they are taking care of the nutrition of their health or any other of their needs then there is no need for them to worry about that but if this is not the case then they should do something for the mothers or sisters or anybody in general Anna I'm curious about what the future holds for you I'm probably boring answer to this I just I keep developing this exercise but I don't have any other specific things I think there's a lot to do in order to try to get the students or engineering students also to get more involved in wikipedia overall and at Chalmers there are several initiatives to do that and I'm one of them but yes no nothing other specific thank you and wrapping remarks from Justine and Vassia I think that since we already have some very good collaborations related to notable women article writing contests I think that next year we have to like deepen repeat and deepen them and I specifically mean here like Giotta Institute, the Bulgarian Health Committee with with whom we made this first actually the first public editaton in Bulgaria was about notable women so it was last year and we have to repeat it and make it not just in March but like probably a monthly Justine yeah and what I plan to do much more this year is again wikidata wikidata is the thing that I want to introduce a little bit more to my students connect it again with all the stuff that we had we have a lot to learn from you and this and not only for me from from there's a bunch of us doing wikidata in education and if you haven't been to our panel yesterday just about that it's filmed and you're welcome to explore some examples from around the world and on that optimistic note we really actually wanted to have some Q&A with the audience but there's no time for that but you now know all of us so please see it as a personal invitation to to reach out and to catch us during lunch or the other breaks or after the conference we are here and we would love to hear from you and to help to help anyone who wants to to start their own educational slash gender gap slash wikidata initiative succeed in doing so thank you so much for listening and participating in your own way and thank you so much to the panelists