 Trillions of these organisms that live inside of us and how they communicate with the world around us. Most people don't realize the body that we carry is just the same soil that we walk upon. I find it fascinating that the same concept applies to the soil, to the plant and to humans and the microbes are a very good translator of that story. Lack of micronutrients and psychological imbalances and lack of mental faculties developing are very, very directly connected. Even the microbes hear your brain because they have receptors like for dopamine, for noipinephrine, for stress mediator. They change their gene expression, their behavior based on what goes on in your brains. When we eat something, we must eat that kind of food which in terms of species is furthest away from us. Just placating all my organisms because my life has been like this last forty years. On an average, I'm doing eight hundred to thousand or eleven hundred events per year. So that's almost entire living day, almost every day. So if my… if these guys don't cooperate, I don't think I could be sitting for hours in one place, forty years, thanks to all of them. So you must tell about my pets. I've always struggled in terms of my main focus in life on a spiritual, traditional healing viewpoint and the hard science. And I think we really see this convergence now between the cutting edge of many areas of science with the spiritual tradition and this thousands of years of experience. I've asked you before, what did this come from? So what did this… I mean how did people in India three thousand years ago come up with concepts that today, after millions of dollars of investment in research and we still look quite there, we're still struggling. How did sages in India come up with that or scientists? One important thing is we did not differentiate between sages and scientists. Our scientists were sages, our sages were scientists. Because we don't have a religious tradition, we only have spiritual cultures. And spiritual culture does not mean that it is one kind of behavior or one kind of scripture or one kind of moral code or something like this. Each person can develop their own spiritual culture if they want. It is out of this that millions of pathways opened up. Essentially a spiritual culture means a certain way of exploration, a certain way of seeking. Every human being can seek in their own way. If they don't know, they can seek guidance in a particular way. We're not against both. Both are fine. If you don't know, you use the GPS. If you know the way home, drive by yourself. Some people get lost in America going home, you know. Yesterday we were following the GPS and it made us turn into the one way street, everybody honking. We're going the wrong way but the GPS is telling us, go, go. So one who does not… who's not figured out their own way will stick to some established pathway. Others can figure out. So the most important thing is, which I feel the scientists and the educated class and the university should create is, in the Indian culture or this culture that we call as the Hindustan or Bharat, there is no such thing as a heretic. That is, if there is an established way in one place, if somebody is doing something different, everybody is excited about it. Nobody is thinking how to have him crucified or burnt or something like this because the basic ethos in the culture is everyone must seek. So out of this, even when so-called divine entities appeared, when we say divine entities, over a period of time people get haloed, all right? But when they were there, they lived life, they bore children, they fought wars, they did everything. They were normal people but they rose above everybody else out of their competence, out of their vision, out of their insights, they rose above everybody. But looking at how they rose beyond the times in which they lived, after a long time we all say, this is a divine entity. So we must understand the… because in English language, these are the words, so I'm using those words. When we say a divine entity, we are not saying he came down from somewhere. See for example, in recent times, probably you know nothing about cricket, you're from California. So though both start with C, in India C means cricket, okay? It's a game. So in recent times, there has been a particular player who rose beyond anything that anybody would have thought is possible. He broke all records that were there for over a hundred years. So in India we said he's a cricketing god. It's very appropriate to our culture. If somebody excels beyond a certain limit that we think is human limit, then we say he's divine. He's exalted. Essentially the Indian word, probably a more appropriate word is an exalted being. He's risen above normal strata of those times. So in this sense, even when those people came, nobody could give us a commandment because Indians are questioning people, endless questions they have and the endless opinions they have. If there are five Indians, there will be ten opinions. They will sit and argue with each other against each other and against themselves because this is a culture which has encouraged questioning, never encouraged obedience. But at the same time, very respectful, just because I don't agree with you, I never think that, you know, something must be done to you because I think always it has been inculcated there are a million ways to look at the same thing. This is why every creature is respected because you know, it's not scientific parlance. I'm saying my grandmother would say, if a little grasshopper is hopping, children want to smash it or do something, say, no, no, no, you don't know where he's going, what he's doing. You don't do that. You don't like him, leave him outside. You don't crush him, all right? You just leave him because you don't know who he is. Maybe he's a sage, maybe he's a seer, maybe it's a god hopping around. You don't touch him, all right? So this sense of acceptance to everything, we don't know what the grasshopper knows you don't know. In many ways he knows a lot about life than most human beings know. He knows his life perfectly well. It's only human beings who don't know what to eat, how to shit, nothing they know. All other creatures have figured out these things very well. So this kind of openness allowed this, so we never separated our sages and scientists. Scientists and sages, sages and mathematicians, sages and musicians, sages and astronomers, all same people because there were no telescopes, there were no microscopes, there were no other outside instrument. The only instrument is this one. Evolving this to a place where this can see, everything that it can see. It'll be probably in this kind of a university, you should know, but unfortunately you do not know. Over 3600 years ago, in a document called Surya Siddhanta, which now is becoming popular because of English translations and stuff, they have calculated the speed of light, just almost to a micro second of what the modern calculations are. I'm saying nearly there are drawings which are probably paintings on the walls, which must be over at least a thousand BC, where clearly the earth is going around the sun on the back of a turtle. There's a turtle walking, on top of it is a round globe. I don't think rest of the world even imagined the planet is round at that time, a round earth on the top of a turtle's back and going around the sun. Why a turtle is, it's a most appropriate animal to carry the earth because a turtle cannot accelerate suddenly. It goes at the same speed. So they are depicting the moment of the earth like the walk of a turtle, it's just going around and around the sun. This is over thousand BC. So about the biome in the Jain texts, which are about right now identified as about sixth century BCE, they're talking about something called as a niguda. They're saying niguda means essentially almost non-existent beings. They're saying tiny lives are all over us, inside us, outside us, everywhere. Tiny lives are all over. So the biggest presence on the planet is these tiny lives. I thought they're talking about your science, so. Yeah, I know this is, this is fascinating. I mean, it's still, even though you explain it, I mean, there's some sort of an insight that is, is beyond what we practice in the West in terms of... One way to understand... I'm sorry, sir, I'm into it. One way to understand this is whatever instruments we have created, right now a microphone, only because we can speak, this microphone is meaningful. Yes? If we had no speech, what do we do wearing these microphones? Only because we can see a microscope or a telescope is meaningful. So all the machines and instruments that we have created on this planet are only extensions of our already existing faculties. We've not done anything new, absolutely. Everything is just an extension. Where we can see till there that's not good enough for us, we must want to see beyond, so we came up with a telescope. We see this, but we are not able to see many things which exist here. So we need a microscope. So it's only enhancement of our existing faculties. So there is another way, when we don't have these instruments, there is another way to enhance your faculties. That's where the sages come in. Yeah, I mentioned the microbes and this is one of the topics of our conversation here. This new microbiome science, it's well, it's been new 15 years that people have reported about potential influences of microbes or their chemicals that they produce with the brain. Within a relatively short time, this has kind of made a paradigm change and our understanding of many brain disorders. For example, multi-center consortium focused on Alzheimer's disease and the progress that's being made amongst these 35 universities is really mind-boggling. That we, you know, we don't have all the answers. Every time we look, try to look, it's opening up a new universe and the new vast space that we don't... But one thing is becoming clear. Not having all the answers is a very important thing, sir. Then we will touch it tenderly. If we think we know everything about this rose, we'll rip it apart. We don't know a lot of it. We will little... No, that's a good one. But I think today people are really talking about particularly in the lay press. They pick up some of the science that's going on in Alzheimer's or in Parkinson's and immediately it's, okay, the consequence of that research is this new medication or now we have a way which was still far away from it, you know, because we don't understand the complexity that the lay public does not grasp the complexity because it's presented by the lay media in such a simplistic way that there's one microbe, one chemical that is responsible for, like, you know, Parkinson's disease. But the reality is there is a lot of evidence accumulating that Parkinson's starts in the gut and that the microbes have a big role in first interacting with the enteric nervous system, the little brain we have in the gut, and then that these changes are transported through the vagus nerve up into the brain, but it takes about 14 years before, after the, you know, the microbes did this initial damage in the gut brain that the neurological manifestations are coming about. And I think it's still the beginning, you know, and in Alzheimer's disease, it's equally complex. But there's now pretty strong evidence that these interactions between between our gut and the microbes that live in it, and then, you know, you can extend this further and and the kind of food we eat and the environment where we grow this food in, that there is this connection to some of the most serious diseases that we're going to be facing in the next 50 years because people are getting older and the rate, the prevalence rate for these chronic neurodegenerative diseases is increasing. So I think this is an example where on the one side a great sense of optimism, but on the other hand the simplistic way that in our western understanding we try to, people try to interpret the scientific findings that are at the very beginning is sort of falling back into the old paradigm, you know, this very simplistic causal relationship between one agent and another, you know, agent that responds to it. So how would you see this in your framework of, so we talked a lot about the brain yesterday, so it's not just the brain in isolation, the brain does not explain everything for sure. If we link it to this other very complex system that we call the gut connectome or the immune cells and neurons and hormonal cells in the gut it's becoming more appropriate but it's very even bigger than that. So how do you, what's your view on this, what I said about Alzheimer's disease or Parkinson's that we now know in the last 10 years really it starts in the gut and it slowly affects the brain but it's not only a brain disease, it's a disease of the whole system. Unfortunately this is happening that what happened a minute ago people cannot remember and we are beginning to assume it's normal. This is not good, this is not normal because everything in this body is designed to last a lifetime. Sometimes due to injury or infection or something else, an external aggression of some kind may destroy something but we're destroying something from internally. That is the dumbest way to do things but we're doing that large scale. If we want to really fix it for the entire population, if you don't overhaul the food industry, the pharmaceutical industry and the water systems, those who supply water to you, I'm thinking what kind of genius would add poison to water and drink it. Every city dweller is doing this. If you don't understand what I'm saying, put ten percent chlorine in your drinking water, one cup of water and drink it and see what happens to you. Only thing is you think by taking it in mild doses, you will die slowly, of course you will. In my understanding, sir, if I'm wrong please tell me how I see and how I know life is. The tiniest organism that's here, whatever you want to call it, I don't go about christening them with different names. These foundational life which is there, whether it's in a plant, animal, human beings, this life in its fundamental design and structure is not different from ourselves. We are different only in complexity and sophistication, but fundamental design of life on this planet is essentially same. Plant, animal, worm, insect, human being, everybody has the same fundamental design. Just complexities and sophistication of things as they go on is different, of course. So what kills a minute bacteria also will kill me if I take the same thing in a higher dose, am I okay, sir? Absolutely. Am I sounding scientific to you? Absolutely. So we… coming to this conclusion, if we mildly poison ourselves, we will be okay. Where does this come from? So there are many families whose children, you know, both in India and also some in New York City coming to me and saying, Satguru, our children are sick, their physical constitution is so weak, they're becoming asthmatic and they're struggling daily. At least, you know, three to four weeks in a year, they're in hospital. I say, say you made enough money, you may not be a billionaire, it doesn't matter. You have enough money to buy ten acres of land somewhere in Iowa, if you want to, or Tennessee or somewhere. If you… if you really love your children, just move there. Home school them, ask them to work on the land half the day, you will see they will grow up as robust youth. After that, let them do whatever they want. So this whole urban dwelling where people… no wonder all of you are always experimenting on rats, we've all moved in like a pack of rats into one place, piled up into tall buildings. Now infections are a serious thing. At that level of proximity, all kinds of things will transmit. See, if the same pandemic, the corona virus had happened here, let's say two centuries ago, somewhere in one part of the world, a few people would have died. Today from one, some it seems they were telling me, I don't know what these numbers are. They say in those two months, some 2,700 flights took off from one to the rest of the world. Oh, this is transporting a disease, all right? If… if there was no air traffic, they would have spread among themselves, maybe people would have been resilient enough to handle it. It would be over probably a thousand times these events have happened without any impact on human life. Now because of the proximity of human beings, anything that comes goes like that. So can we all spread out, move away from the cities and live in farms? That's not a reality. Not everybody can do it. The nature of our professions, work, very various things won't allow that, lifestyles, all this. But if you find you are too susceptible to live in large groups of people, you must do that. That's one thing. About the food that you eat, one most important thing, I don't know how it is seen by the biomescience people, in yoga, any food that we cook, if it is more than one-and-a-half hours after it came off the stout, we won't eat it. I don't have to know the timing when it was cooked. If it appears in front of me, if I just look at it or place my hands on it, I know whether to eat it or not eat it. Because body is sensitive to these things. This is the most sophisticated mechanism on the planet. That's what I think. So what do you think, sir? This is the supercomputer, this is a super supercomputer, this is the motherboard for all the supercomputers, isn't it? So such an insensitive instrument you have, but you can't feel anything. This is because we don't know how to manage our cerebral activity. It's going crazy. Because we're talking about gut, we can use this word, this is a mental diarrhea, which is going on. When there is diarrhea, you can't enjoy food. Similarly, when there is mental diarrhea, the abilities of the mind will come down significantly. Will it happen in terms of loss of memory? Will it happen in terms of loss of other faculties? Will it happen in terms of loss of discrimination? This is happening to people and people think it's normal. Let me tell you my last example. My great-grandmother lived to be one-one-three, 113 years of age. She is married to a very rich, wealthy man. And you know those days in India, these are called landlords. They have large amount of land and they're into a very large business activity and all this. After her husband died when she is sixty-eight years of age, she moved out of the house and built a small temple for herself, not for a god, for herself. You must understand, these are Indian women. This is the Indian woman. She builds a temple for herself. No other deity, she goes and sits there. Built with her own hand, a small little temple. And people gather to meet her because people think she has solutions and she had. So I'm just a little boy at that time and we all go to our native place during summer vacations only. Thirty-five to forty days is what I get to spend in that town, otherwise we're all living in cities. So when I go there and we are about thirty-six of us children, between the age groups of three to twenty, all cousins, cousin brothers and sisters, a whole bunch living in various parts of the country, all coming down for the summer. So at that time, because children are there, she would come. By then she was hundred-plus, like this Ramrod straight says. And from the farm, from her temple, she walks home, which is about two-and-a-half kilometer walk. And she walks, spends the day with us and everything. And she lives a certain life. There's another dimension to her life. Let's not go there in terms of food I'm saying. If you give her breakfast, first thing is she will take it and feed the ants. She'll feed the squirrels, she'll feed the sparrows. More than half will be gone to this. And some days she will eat the remaining. Some days she simply sits there watching them eating and tears will be. She'll have tears flowing out of her eyes. So some self-appointed advisors are always there, even I have them around me. They go and say, you old woman, you will die like this without eating. She will just laugh and sit there. All these advisors died. She went on living. And when she was fourteen years of age, she got married. In India the culture is such, an unmarried woman cannot smoke. Once she gets married, it's her choice if she wants to smoke, she can smoke. So she exercises choice on day one. So I've seen her smoking the beedies. You know, it's pure tobacco leaf just like that. Nothing is just the leaf itself, the outer thing itself is tobacco leaf. She will smoke it with inside, the fire inside, like that, not outside. Every day she smoked and every day she chewed tobacco at the age of one-one-one. She got throat cancer. She simply sat. She made her own liquid. She till the last day she was cooking for herself. With her own hands she makes a little bit of liquid diet and slowly slips it in. And simply sits there. No hospital, no painkiller, no doctor, simply sat there. About maybe fifteen to eighteen months, something like that, she suffered enormous pain but she didn't say a word and she died at one-one-three. I'm saying till the last day she's as sharp as anybody, okay? This is very much possible for every human being, it's just how you keep yourself. Now we are thinking if your fifty blood pressure is normal, if your sixty loss of memory is normal, what is this? This is not the way human body is made. This is made in such a way as long as you live, all these things can work. No spectacles she would read. At what, I have seen her at one-on-five, one-on-six. At that age she sits and reads without spectacles. No, I mean there's very good evidence for what you said, scientific evidence that I mean the brain does not naturally age. I mean there's some functions that slow down but these concepts that high blood pressure and high lipids and brain degeneration are all normal phenomena that come with, you know, at age sixty or seventy and that we have to expect this avalanche of people with Alzheimer's disease just because we're aging. So this is the logic right now. In my understanding only motor skills can come down with age, that is understandable. It's not necessary for anything else to come down. Your physical agility may not be the same, that's okay. Yeah, so this, I mean this is concerned about the health span, you know, that really this should really be the goal to re-establish the normal health span of individuals, not the longevity, but longevity in a healthy state. But that's not what our economic model is based on. The pharmaceutical industry obviously loves these diseases that kick in at age sixty or fifty and then go on to the rest of the life. One thing I'm always fascinated by whenever I'm a visiting professor, I compare the size of the medical center that I've been invited to over several years or decades and they're all growing. They keep, they keep growing. So you would, you would think that's not a necessary, I mean that's really not, I mean what's the reason for that is because we don't deal with the root cause of the problem. Yes. See the thing is we start commercial activity initially to serve humanity. But slowly this economic engine has become so large that human beings are the fuel. We have to burn ourselves to somehow keep the economic engine going. This is a complex thing. This is not just any one aspect of this overall approach. We have forgotten that commercial activity is for human being. Having said that, let's not simply waste time and talking about things that we can't change. Where can we change? I feel if we can, if it is possible somehow, which we are attempting through these conferences and various things, if we can bring the attention of qualified medical professionals, there are many systems of medicine in the world, but in today's world because of their inability to organize themselves, they are all just fringe. If all the alternate systems of medicine are put together, I don't know if it even accounts to two percent. I don't know the stat, I'm just guessing it may be two percent or less. So essentially it is the allopathic system of medicine. One important aspect which I feel small shifts are happening, but not enough to make a difference for the common people. One simple thing is allopathic system is right now symptomatic in its treatment. You have a temperature, we know how to cool you down. You have pain, we know how to take away the pain. We don't have the thing of looking where is the source for this. This is costing a certain amount of illness. One important thing is somebody that you don't like is driving in front of you and they put on their indicator, they're turning right. You take out, I'm, you know, I'm from Tennessee. So you take out your revolver and shoot the indicator out and now I think he's going straight. No, he's turning right. His indicator is out. So now I think he's going straight but he's turning right, so there's going to be some issue. So this is the approach we are treating the symptoms. I think from symptomatic treatment to a more cause-oriented treatment if we can shift, which may be difficult because medical industry and pharmaceutical industry have a… you can't separate them because when you say medicine, it means that, all right? We are not saying health. We are not saying health. Only these days people are trying to say health care because that is all the stuff that comes with it. But this is essentially medicine. This form or this way of looking at health systems in the world happened because when this system started evolving, the biggest threat was infectious ailments, diseases. There was plague, there was malaria, there was smallpox and this and that. So mainly allopathic system came up to combat them because they would wipe out the whole populations at one time. So in that context they did the right thing. Even today, whatever people may say, I will hundred percent vouch. If you have anything infectious, you just treat yourself with modern medicine because that's a chemical warfare, not all good for you. But if you want to be well tomorrow, that's a way to deal with it. But seeking health through medicine is a very not a go for me, not a go for anybody actually because you will pay a price for that. Because all chemicals are trying to remove something. But there is no chemical, if I have pain here, there is no pain killer will go just here. It'll go and do kill everything. Pain is a very important part of our survival process. Most people don't have enough sense in the world that if they didn't have pain, they would cut themselves into pieces. Hello? Have you not seen all the new fashions? Have you? They're piercing themselves here, here, there, there, everything. There's so much pain. If there was no pain, they would have pulled out their intestines and walked on the street using the stomach bag as a handbag. It's the pain which is limiting the fashion. And it is pain if a bicycle comes, people step back, not out of humility. The consequence of pain, if the consequence of pain is removed, even if a truck comes, people will go like this. So they wouldn't even survive. So pain is a good thing. So don't kill the pain. What is the source of the pain? It must be seen why the indicator of pain is coming up. This must be looked at like this. I'm not trying to you know, like simplify the whole medical system, which is a complex process. So where one thing ends, it's not this versus that. Where one thing ends and the other thing begins. Our health should begin at home, our food, how we breathe, how we sit, how we stand. When something goes wrong, a doctor should come. You must not have a doctor attending you right from your childhood to your grave. This is not the way it is. You don't need that. But it is the way that we... It is the way it is. Because once you create an industry, you need clients. Yeah, I mean, so to look at this in somewhat or said in different words, we've been focusing so much on pathology and dealing with the symptoms of pathology and not with this salad, what's called saladogenesis. So the factors that drive health or that are essential for health, which are the factors that maintain a healthy ecosystem that our brain, gut, body represents. So we're not really dealing with that right now with this philosophy. We're focusing on one thing goes wrong and we want to treat this in the most targeted way. Not minding if there's a lot of collateral damage to this kind of treatment. I mean, that's... I think what you're saying is we should accept many of the things that go on in us naturally, look for the causes why some things are not working properly and not just dealing with those symptoms but with ever more expensive treatments and prolonging life in this way. So this disease care model where we keep people alive as long as possible with as many interventions as possible rather than saying, okay, what is it that's underlying? And I think with what I keep coming back to with our understanding now this interconnectedness of the world we live in, which in science is not called the exposome, without perfect systems that that's really the reason why we have all the health care problems. And I think what's happening right now in microbiome science that still a lot of people are interested in getting patents on molecules that these microbes make, getting patents even on the microbes themselves, rather than understanding how a ecosystem of multiple of these trillions of these organisms that live inside of us and how they communicate with the world around us, understanding this and making an intervention there. I think that to me is there's some people that came from ecology have moved into microbiome science that had that viewpoint. It's not a single organism, like a pathogen. But I think the majority driven by the economic model again, you want to make money on your insights in the laboratory on this one molecule that you think is the target for new Alzheimer medications of a new Parkinson's medication rather than understanding or doing something. I mean, give you a good example. So the central valley of California is the main source of all vegetables and plant-based foods in the country. But I've seen patients that came to me with really weird symptoms, both their children and the parents. And taking history, it became obvious that these dust croppers, so these these plants that spray insecticides and herbicides, they fly right over the farms. So the children have learned they have to run into the house and close the windows. This is in 2019. Still happening. I think they stopped those things. This was in 2019 that I got this history. And I couldn't believe it. They developed all kinds of neurological symptoms. The father developed, that's why they came to me, chronic constipation. Turn out he had early Alzheimer's disease starting in the gut. But that in a place that supposedly produces the healthiest food for plant-based diet is actually the cause of many of these you know chronic severe chronic problems because the chemicals that are thrown into this production. And I'm sure there's many other examples. I don't know about India how much how widespread. Oh, it's not it's not that bad, but it's pretty bad. Depends on different parts of the country in some parts. It's bad. The problem is this that if a certain state gains a certain influence, they think they must poison themselves. But that is a much larger problem. Insecticide fertilizer is a larger problem. About California's food and quality, many studies are there to show various aspects which are not very encouraging. One simple thing to say is, suppose you ate a California orange in 1920s, what micronutrients you got from that. Today if you eat the same thing, you will have to eat eight oranges to get the same thing. That is the level of reduction that's happened because there are no micronutrients in the soil. We are artificially blowing them up like that. Something is coming out, but what is needed is not there. I think all of you have done this, many other scientists are working on this, that lack of micronutrients and psychological imbalances and lack of mental faculties developing are very, very directly connected. There's no other way because I don't look at it this way. All I see is this body is soil. If soil is not rich, this body is not going to be rich. If soil is not rich, food will not be rich. Rich food does not mean dripping with fat or something. These are wrong terms we're using. Instead of calling it lousy food, we're calling it rich food. All right? If it's full of fat, it's lousy food, but we call it rich food. Rich means it's rich in all the things that are needed to sustain this life. If there is no rich soil, there is no rich food. If there is no rich food, there is no healthy and rich body. I would use the word rich body, not just healthy, because being just healthy, not going to the doctor or no need to go to the doctor is not good enough. This means function at its fullest possibility, the little time that we have as a human life. If we don't fire full on, then what? So if this needs to happen, so many things have to change with, we cannot change, but at least if the doctor community gets educated in a certain way and they're little more away from treating everything chemically, it would make a lot of difference. I'll just tell you a simple example, because you were saying California. I was in California in somewhere little south of San Francisco, is a well-to-do home and this lady goes into the bathroom and she comes out, she doubles down and rolls on the floor and starts crying loudly, please call ER, please call ER. I said, what happened? She went to relieve herself and suddenly she found extreme pain in her lower belly and she couldn't get the urine out and she's crying and yelling. I said, where is the pain? She told me, it's just below the navel, she can't bear it. I said, just on the floor like this on the carpet, I said, just lie here. Normally in summers when I travel, we carry a tiny little bottle of castor oil with us because when we're traveling too much dust and if you feel heat in the nostrils, we'll take a drop and put castor oil, it just cools the whole system. I said, you just lie down here and I put a few drops in our navel and just lie six, seven minutes. If it still doesn't work, we'll call the ER. Oh, she's crying. And she goes, oh, what did you do to me? It's just gone. This is a simple thing, just everybody in Asia knows, why knowledge travels so slowly to United States. It doesn't make money. That's the one. I should have said this is a special oil I got from heaven and charged a million dollars. Then I think it would have worked. Yeah, let me come back to this, what you said about the, you know, the micronutrients and how important that is. Our dieticians, everything focuses on the macronutrients, you know, how important, how much protein, endless discussions on social media, how much protein and, you know, should it be a keto diet or should it be a carbohydrate rich diet? I mean, the thing that people don't talk about are these phytonutrients, these substances that are, that plants produce. So my favorite example are these so-called polyphenols or antioxidants. Every plant produces those and they're enriched in the most valuable assets that the plant has, the fruits and the seeds and certainly really in the leaves. And it's the plant's medicine. So during a drought, the production of these polyphenols increases. If the plant is infected by some parasite or some insect, production goes up. And the microbes play in the soil, play a big role in regulating this production. So when the plant suffers, parts of the plant descends down these distress signals into the root system, the roots produce these sugar-like molecules that attract the soil microbes. And the soil microbes stimulate the roots of the plant, produce more of these polyphenols. So it's this beautiful system. So if you're going to explain what's a polyphenol. So phenols are molecular structures and polyphenols are multiple of these rings put together. So it becomes a very large molecule and it's too large to be absorbed by our gut. It was a big enthusiasm about these molecules and whole industry started. And then they realized when they, when they gave these to humans in human studies, there was almost no blood level detectable of these compounds. It's because, yeah, they can't be absorbed. Whatever was tested before was done in isolated cell cultures. But the microbes play a major role in this. So the microbes stimulate the production in the plants, but they also play a major role when we eat those plants with these compounds to unpackage them. It's almost like, you know, without the microbes, there will not be a release of the health benefit of these compounds. But they also become a major medicine for our brain health and our cardiovascular health. And so this science is really just starting. But this is a good example of how nature, you mentioned this earlier, has designed, has used principles that work in different systems. So they work in the plants. It's the self-produced medicine of the plants that keeps them healthy. If we destroy the microbes, the plants no longer produce those and then becomes susceptible to the pests. So we need insecticides we need. You know, we need all these chemicals to keep the plants alive because they're no longer produced their own. And in some ways, we're doing the same thing, you know, with our system. So we, you know, we consume unhealthy things, toxins, but also unhealthy food. And it moves the body's own ability to keep us healthy. And then we throw in the chemicals in terms of the pharmaceuticals for these chronic, you know, for these chronic diseases. So I find it fascinating that the same concept applies, you know, to the soil, to the plant, and to humans. And the microbes are a very good translator of that story. I think the most remarkable thing that I've learned from microbiome science are those examples where we see what are health-promoting mechanisms in different kinds of life, soil life, plant life, and, you know, gut health, brain health. I mean, that to me is really remarkable. So why not sort of follow that story from the beginning from, you know, what we do to our plants and how we grow the plants, what you said about California. Yeah, those oranges now don't have the polyphenols anymore because they're grown in a soil devoid of the microbes that stimulate the production, but they're grown with a lot of chemicals sprayed on them to keep them from going bad and being infested by, you know, by insects and... I mean, this has been a traditional knowledge, but today modern scientists would also confirm in this in a certain way, among the plants, for example, in a forest. I always wondered because I've spent so much time in the southern Indian jungles, I always wondered why the elephants are eating in such a rush. They eat in such a rush, they rip down the tree, they can eat slowly, there's no competition for them. You know, other animals eat, graze the ground, these guys can eat anywhere, but still they rip it and eat it. Then it was one of the tribals who told me, but he couldn't articulate it as such. He said something like, you know, the plants won't like him, so he has to go somewhere, something like that. But, you know, he was saying that some spirits in the plants will come out in the trees and affect the elephants. So he has to eat in a rush and go. But now there is a science that if a certain species of trees are here, let's say next ten miles there are certain types of trees, if the elephant starts eating this particular group of elephants or herd of elephants come and start eating in this region, within about seven to twelve minutes, all those species, their leaves will turn bitter. So they'll eat in such a rush and then they won't eat the next tree, they'll just walk away. They'll go a kilometer away or a mile away and then again eat. So the plants are doing this. So as per this, in the, you know, like I know this in my grandfather's place, they would always say that you must have small animals moving around in the fruit gardens and everything, like rabbits, pet rabbits, sheep are always left there. They say when the small animals move, the plants will yield more sweetness to you because the plant realizes these animals cannot attack them but they will manure them. So they will produce more sweetness. So always in a garden you leave small animals which doesn't threaten the plant, you will get the best out of that plant. This is a wisdom. You know, this is sort of the natural way of, you know, what's now become fashionable with this term of regenerative organic agriculture that you actually, you know, put back into the soil. So you're not just taking out and depleting the soil but actually putting things back, like them in Europe, animals walking around or other plants that. That's the soil biome, managing the soil biome because as I was saying as today, if we grow one ton of anything out of this land, we're actually pulling out one ton of organic matter. We must put back at least one ton every season otherwise within a few years the soil will become sand. This is called desertification. They're one of the largest problems on the planet. Desertification, deserts are growing at a pace that you can't believe. In every twenty-two years in the African continent the desert is growing by 10 percent. In India for example or in Africa, do you see any prospect or any hope that this will change? In India there is prospect. One thing we are campaigning with the government to change many policies which we have. Today we are in the process of turning about 5.2 million farmers spread across 83,000 kilometers into tree-based agriculture which will definitely change. Looking at the success of this, the government of India has now made a detailed project report for thirteen river basins. These thirteen river basins put together will account for sixty-seven percent of India's land. Last year they invested some 2.4 billion dollars on that project but that's not enough. If they continue to invest substantially in the next twelve to fifteen years time, sixty-seven percent of India's land will turn around once the turns around and shows prosperity. Definitely rest of it will be done by private agencies and stuff. So India is looking in that way but India's problem is as I mentioned yesterday it is four percent of the world's land and seventeen point two percent of the world's population. That's a serious challenge to manage. In Africa the problem is very different. In Africa there is no real-time agricultural culture. In India there is a very profound agricultural culture. It's something that whole world has to learn from India in many ways. It's gone bad in recent times because of so-called modern agriculture. For example, in 1950s India was still suffering from famines which was kind of a gift for us from the Her Majesty's service. So severe famines in 1942-43 where over 3.2 million people died in a matter of four months in a most horrible way. So after that India was striving to cross this famine bridge so that person who was the doine of that so-called green revolution passed away just before I left India about four weeks ago. Swami Nathana Dr. Swami Nathana he did a fantastic job. But this green revolution was a bridge to cross the famines. We crossed it successfully. Since 1961 there's not been a single famine. It's a huge achievement for a nation and that population. But at the same time we started destroying the soil with excessive use of fertilizer and pesticide and all this stuff. Not at the scale at which you are using. We are using, we think it's destruction but America is annihilation. It's using at a different scale. Now people are becoming a little more conscious but spraying things from an airplane is a it's a war scale, all right? So we have destroyed our soils. We've brought down the organic content significantly. It's just about 0.62 right now which is bad for the country. The microbial content in southern India soil below the Deccan Plateau is such that it is the highest in the world in terms of species. Nowhere else on the planet do you find that many species in a handful of soil. We don't know why it is so. Nobody knows why it is so but it has been observed it has the highest number of species. So its ability to bounce back is good and the weather is good. The monsoons are good for the soil to bounce back if you give it. See for example here you have prairies. These are fertile soils only if you manage the vegetation in a certain way. Otherwise topsoil gets blown away and now it is believed at least fifty percent of the prairie soil is gone. Another fifty percent we don't know how long it will last. As the wind speeds increase because of rise in temperature we do not know how it will take it. Recently even near Illinois there was a sandstorm where you know multiple cars crashed because a heap of sand came and landed. Roads were covered with sand. So this can happen as the wind speeds rise because this is that kind of soil. If there is no natural vegetation it will just fly away. We don't have that kind of a issue because both sides we are protected by very rich, biodiversity very very rich mountains on both sides of the peninsula. We have that advantage. Our problem is pressure of population. The human footprint is so very high. So human footprint is that high. We should also understand it becomes that high because somewhere it was conducive for life. It is not a place where people want to migrate from. Today they may be migrating for better opportunities elsewhere. But in the past nobody wants to leave India and go because it was very good for life. Whether it's good everything is good food is good especially for Indians the tongue is pointing east. Tongue is always pointing east. This turnaround is happening but Africa is a different situation. Unfortunately unless Africa gets a big helping hand from outside, I have we've tried to work in certain countries like Sierra Leone and other places. There is no fundamental knowledge of agriculture. To teach them everything and get them to become agriculturally competent some little may is something they're raising. In India it's not like that. Farmers are raising four to six crops on the same land in one year, four crops plus two inter crops. So they know agriculture like that. It's just that because the land holdings have become so small over a period of time, average land holding is one hectare per person which is so small it's not economically relevant. For this we are finding solutions by making what is called as farmer producer organizations. Isha Foundation runs twenty-five farmer producer organizations. Just twelve, thirteen days ago we got a national award as the best performing farmer producer organization. So these things are happening. These are all solutions but my problem is the pace will we move fast enough to mitigate the problem or will we move at that pace one day when a big disaster hits and then we will turn around. This is... That's the more likely scenario unfortunately. Unfortunately the federal government in India is agile. We have changed the river policies in the last few years. We have changed the you know tree plantation policies in the farmland in the last few years. We have brought in subsidy for tree plantation on farmland. These things are very, very progressive. Still needs to be propagated properly and reach the people. Is the Indian government behind this? I mean this obviously is exactly what's needed in all parts of the world. But is the Indian government supporting those kind of efforts? I mean this... The efforts in the ground is unfortunately all ours. It's just that all of us who are there full-time in Isha Foundation and also part-time volunteers, because we are working seven days of the week, nearly eighteen hours a day, non-stop three and sixty-five days, we are able to keep it funded. Otherwise we don't have any big funding. We don't... we have not approached any big organizations or anything. It's only small people giving small donations but in large numbers. We are managing this. But a time has come this has to become like a governmental project. Like I said looking at the success of our project, UNCCD declared that this is the project for tropical lands in the world. This is the solution. Based on that government of India has now made thirteen detailed project reports. They've invested a little bit of money but rivers and land and soil are a concurrent subject. That is between the federal government and the state governments. In India you know like we have probably thirty-two parties and in each state one-one party is ruling and getting them all on board. We... I managed this during the rally for rivers. I passed through sixteen states. In all the sixteen states, all the sixteen chief ministers participated in my rallies and central government made this the mandatory law because they saw the support. But getting all these people on board and getting it going in every state is a... is a circus. It's not difficult. You must do circus. You must do all kinds of Joker stuff to convince everybody and do this. Just to get this law, see there was a law that if you plant a tree on your own land and you grow it, when you need it, if the farmer cuts it, he will be arrested. Activists are there, environmental activists who have nothing else to do except activism. They have no activity in their life. They will protest. Police will come and arrest the farmer. I said, who wants to grow a tree now? Nobody wants to grow a tree. Whatever I grow on my land, let it be for my use, then I will grow a tree. Now we change that law, except they still did not release a few species. We are still working on that. Right now there is a movement in Tamil Nadu. We've started about three months ago that sandalwood, as protest we are planting sandalwood. We are about, I think, thirteen hundred farmers have right now this season they've planted sandalwood across their thing. We have promised them before it grows, we'll change the law. Because now sandalwood is from India essentially, the species itself. Now we are importing sandalwood from Australia because we don't allow anybody to grow. So the only way is to go into the forest and cut it. If you don't want people to go and exploit the forest, you must be allowed to grow the same things on the land, isn't it? And a whole lot of farmers are no more living on the farm. They've all moved to the cities. Their children are software engineers. They may be here in Boston, not in Bangalore anymore. And they can't live in the village, they've moved to the cities. So they would like to do some light farming. You know, two, three days in a month they come down and do some farming and go. If they have to do that, tree-based agriculture is the best thing to do. Yeah, that's very interesting. I mean, I also kind of interested to realize, you know, we started out talking about health and microbiome and cutting-edge science, but we really, you know, ended up in the soil. It's all microbiome, sir. Whether it's here or there, it's all microbiome because it's not there, it can't be here. This is just a small outcrop. We're just a small pop-up on this soil. One day we'll pop out. Most people don't realize the body that we carry is just the same soil that we walk upon. As I said yesterday, it's our choice. If we realize this now, we can live sensibly. Or on one day we'll realize it through the maggots. Not bad. Existentially that is also okay. In terms of human life, it's better to realize now. What do you think? So is this important for mental health? Instead of looking at mental health, we can look at it as, is it very important that human mind functions in an all-inclusive and phenomenal way or in some mediocre way? It's very important. The more powerful we become in this world, now human beings, individual human beings – I'm not talking about governments or presidents and prime ministers – individual human beings, compared to how a man or a woman was a thousand years ago, probably we are a thousand times more powerful in terms of what we can do. When such empowerment is there, how mentally capable we are is important. Just remaining mentally healthy that you did not go into the asylum is not important. How capable we are, how are we going to use our intelligence is very important. In this, first thing is to recognize that we are not an individual life. We are a life of consequence of all these lives, not only microbiome, every other life. This is why in yoga each asana is named after one animal. And these animals, what they are, how they're invested in us and how we go back into the evolutionary scale and come back. There is a system of yoga. People who are practicing yoga, they should know there are Makarasana, there's Bujjungasana, there is Rukshasana like this. Different asanas which represent different animals because all of them in some way exist within us. This is our development. We are the flower of evolution, but we must be fragrant. We shouldn't stink. This direction is exactly the way I feel it is most important about this microbiome science. Please sir, if you can tell us how we can at least push the science and the scientific community a few inches in this direction, if you can tell us. Well, I mean certainly I've been trying at this stage of my career to reach as wide an audience as possible on social media and newsletters and podcasts and took the risk of really offending a lot of my former colleagues. But why do scientists get offended, sir? I can understand. A religious cleric will get offended. They feel as a scientist, I should be focusing on the science and not on promoting something to the public. But I mean I sort of really feel this urge now and the urgency that we've been talking about that I think more and more scientists should be doing this because they have the insights, they know the details, they should not leave it up to people that make tons of money out of individual supplements that are not evidence supported. I mean this is one thing I think making people, ordinary people aware, because the more you spread this word I think the more likely it is that people change their own lives and their lifestyles and demand changes from the politicians. But it's just one, I mean you do it on a much larger scale, you know, which is wonderful to have the platform that you have to influence so many millions of people in a direction that is necessary and your voice is louder than a lot of the chatter that- I'm sorry if I'm so loud. No I mean your voice is a lot louder than the chatter that's out there you know on social media, most of which in terms of the health implications and the decisions and the lifestyle changes we have to make are not really I mean not really effective, they serve the individuals, they want to become an influencer and you know make money being an influencer but not really, the goal is not really to change perspectives and concepts and attitudes on a large scale which I think are necessary. I mean as soon as in my case it's been partially successful, takes a lot of effort, distracts you from writing grants continuously or being rejected by the NIH, but it's it's I personally feel it's worthwhile. I mean I think personally I feel I've published enough papers to the scientific literature that it's time to really transmit that knowledge and these insights to the to the public and in the best way possible. So you mentioned something about the urgency, so many of these I mean there's some things that are kind of urgent in terms of health and but some are super urgent like you know like the next pandemic for example which is a certainty. What matters that we know what the main risk factors are, I mean the risk factors are our agriculture to put more of animals in ever greater densities and to limit the the the boundary that we have with with wild animals in many countries, India and Brazil and moving closer and closer to these habitats and China obviously. In India cattle raring is not a it's not a big deal it's there is no such organized cattle raring they're just there. We used to have over a billion or a billion plus cattle about 20 years ago. Today it is numbered around seven and eighty million something like that but they're generally there either in the farmlands or in the forests wild ones and things like that. I once happened to go into you know I was driving on a highway and I heard some hideous sounds like stomach churning kind of. My stomach is very strong I can travel in the ocean without having a big seasickness I'm wherever I am I'm not a motion sickness person or anything I can see anything I'm kind of made like that but these sounds are like gut wrenching kind of sounds. So we were just traveling and we wanted to see what we just drove in. I don't know somewhere between LA to San Francisco a little deeper into the plains and this must be probably one maybe 34 or 50 acres kind of fenced land. I don't know how many animals I couldn't even guess it must be definitely somewhere between half a million to one million animals and the smell is like the stench is unbearable and they're making gut wrenching sounds. I don't know if it's a slaughterhouse or something I couldn't make out there were some sheds. Oh it is the worst kind of misery. The first thing that came to me is the movies we have seen the holocaust things this is just like that and the sounds that are coming out of that place I think I think the diet will change if you make a visit. But these are the things that we know are breeding grounds for these for these pandemics you know and microorganisms that thrive in that space that ultimately get into you know into our food chain into our air are certainly I mean it's happening in China for example where they built high risers for pigs that are raised. Oh multi-storied big farms. Yeah like 10 story villains have seen it recently. I mean the density of these animals is something you know that it will create so the microbes will rebel against this. It's a natural response of nature to this kind of farming. So we know it's going to happen we know also for example recent studies just last week study has shown that this long COVID phenomenon so you know people have persistent symptoms which is which is really a major compromise of quality. I don't know if it is getting more complex the same thing because the mutations that came up in India were weaker than the first one so we thought we've beaten it and we're fine that kind of conclusions we came to. One thing I want to ask you sir how in what way is the biome connected with this? See how we see food is we see that when we eat something we must eat that kind of food which in terms of species is furthest away from us. So plant life is definitely far away from us. If at all if you must eat non-vegetarian or something which is not of you know from plant life you can eat fish. Fish that's why we call it as in South India we call it as jalapushma. This means it's the flower in the water because it behaves like plant life in your body because it's so further away from your own genetic code. If you eat something which is closer to your genetic code for example like mammals if you eat a mammal which is so close to you the complexity of that genetic code and its biome and everything doesn't work for us. This is a fundamental thing that it'll dull your system it'll it'll complicate your own genetic codes it'll get mixed up and now everybody's talking about epigenetics. I mean that's not my area I don't know scientific knowledge but we know what causes dullness in us what causes alertness in us what lowers our perception what heightens our perception this is we something we're always conscious about before we put something we're always looking in terms of not protein vitamin like this we are only thinking in terms of if I consume this will I become less receptive or more receptive this is the only concern we have because in this life whether you live for hundred years or fifty years how receptive you are is how profound your life's experience is so we are not looking at the length of our experience but the profoundness of our experience so in this concern we are seeing that what we consume must be far away from us in genetic code does this have something to do with biome? Yeah I mean obviously you know I always say the best thing that you can do for your health in terms of eating is to eat what your microbes thrive on and that's essentially it's largely plant based food mainly because of the fiber molecules that only the microbes can break down and these polyphenol molecules and some of the micronutrients so what you're saying is it's essentially just another non-scientific version of that same story that it's we have this ancient life formed these microbes have been around for three point five billion years on the planet and they thrive best on the kind of food items that are far away from our own you know mammalian evolutionary step I've actually never thought about this and like what you just said but it fits exactly that that's great if you have any questions please There is definitely a deterioration of the soil and microbes now currently Sadhguru is working on it and I'm sure that you will also be pressing your government to work on it but what can we do now to to alleviate us because we all live in the city we have got our own difficulties we cannot grow our own food so what can we do now to alleviate this this this problem see it's very clear that all of you are not going to become regenerative farmers tomorrow that's an impractical expectation to have though a lot of idealistic people are talking in those terms they move to their farms for three four months and they can't handle it because the wi-fi doesn't work and they come back to this city we we know a lot of people who had short term agricultural experiences and they back so you don't do that today we are living in a democratic society that means it is your government when I say your government it is your vote which has made that count so it is very important now in another one and a half years or something an election is coming little over a year next November pitch it up in America that if you don't take care of America soil we're not going to vote for you whoever you are whatever your party you belong to I don't care will you make sure there will be a rich soil for our children or not who will come up with the best policy only then we'll start a campaign save soil website is there there's enormous amount of knowledge there in a simple form but if you want something more complex you can go into FAO UNCCD everywhere there's a phenomenal amount of information all right you don't have to act like a scientist you pick what is common sense for you and put it out there at least four times a week I'm saying something about soil on the Twitter now it's X okay I'm saying something make sure a million people retweet it in a democratic form of government the most important thing is numbers if you show you have numbers for a certain thing government will take it seriously in this country it's not a big deal to turn it around because you don't have a population pressure like other nations here still natural resources are in a fantastic place though you're trying to ruin it very strongly still in terms of natural resource North American continent is still largely untouched I would say it's water resources is land resources in a good place if the United States government commits itself it doesn't need the kind of money that you're spending and war and stuff like that 5% 10% of that if you invest in five years time you can turn everything around in this country if you want to turn India around it'll take 15 years if you want to turn Africa around it'll take probably 25 30 years so this is the level of challenge that is there but in the United States in five to six years you can turn this around if they invest a certain amount of money and force behind it I mean the challenge is obviously the political polarization in this in this country that makes any sense no sir there'll be no polarization if the people if you can make the people of America stand up and say let's say 60% of the American population says we are concerned about the soil who is going to come up with the best then there'll be a competition be the polarized parties to come out with a better and better policy that's how progress will happen we shouldn't get involved unless you're standing for presidential unless you are don't get messed up with those parties that is their business our business is the country should do well people should do well I mean a small step I mean I totally agree with this you know a small step for for people that don't want to live in a farm or start a farm is you know there are farmers markets and you can go to these people and so we've done this in LA you get to know them you go to their farm you see how they grow do they use regenerative techniques most of them don't actually and that's definitely one one way to you know support that that industry rather than going to whole foods and you know other big markets to buy your fruits and vegetables but obviously that does not have that same impact you know on a on a large scale is no that is definitely a good way to support that tiny industry which is a good thing to do no question about that but at the same time let's say the whole population of Boston tomorrow goes to farmers market that farmers market cannot even cater to one percent of the population so they don't have the scale to grow to supply for the entire city so what is needed is the scientific community is there well the surgeon general you know is a very forward-looking kind of person Vivek Murthy is there suppose there all of you together who are in your discipline if you write a strong letter with the necessary backup see this this needs to happen if this needs to happen United States soil must become rich minimum three percent for this everything data is there it's not that I have to say something it's enough data is there this needs to happen this is what needs to happen why don't we don't even do what I'm asking you to do you figure out what to do all right because you have a certain problem if somebody suggests something you can't do it it's all right you figure it out you do it some other incredible way that I have not thought of what does it matter as long as the organic life on this planet is rich if it's in the land it will naturally come here I know this if it's here this will fire up so I'm saying one thing is to push the politician another thing is to push the other institutions which have power over the policy this needs to happen in a country like this if you cannot do what is it I mean there are some good examples for example you know the the founder of of Patagonia you've gone to an art I don't know if you've run into him I mean a very remarkable man who has dedicated his entire business and actually became a billionaire a reluctant billionaire he always considers himself really an eco-communist but that's a nice communist who is that no he's he's somebody you would you would love to talk to so he has had a certain impact he's created a following it's almost like a not really a cult but a positive cult I would say that that he has created and and he's demonstrated you can make money on it you know it's it's not you don't have to say the business model does not allow these kind of approaches like regenerative agriculture that that he has been pushing a lot so and anything about soil will not change without incentivizing the former right now there is a lot of incentivization but without any goals there is see you incentivize a former you can easily attach it you raise the organic content we will incentivize you further instead of that we are just incentivizing just to beat somebody else's market yeah corn and soybeans I mean that's the main you know the main areas of it's a conny way of doing agriculture Namaskar, I have a question for both of you one is I'm a neurologist so we have patients with Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease like you said they often start in the gut so one is what kind of dietary advice do we advise patients who've already acquired the disease Parkinson's and for you Sadhguru I want to ask is can we develop specific protocols of yoga practices depending on the type of disease that patients have to better give them symptomatic treatment specifically for Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease the diet protocols you must talk yeah so it so depends on at what stage you see a patient with Parkinson's disease ideally I think there are ways today possibly from colonic biopsies where you see these these Louis bodies in the enteric nervous system where you can make a diagnosis so somebody develops out of the blue constipation in the middle age or you know in their 40s you have 14 years of time to influence the development of the neurological disease and we're not taking advantage of this at all so I bet that less than 1% or 0.1% of gastroenterologists that see a patient for constipation think about this connection you know and particularly if there's a positive family history for Parkinson's so if you have these 14 years I think we definitely should have clinical trials on interventions with a either largely a largely like there's several of these plant-based diets it's not just the Mediterranean it's the the mind diet and the the dash diet so they're all variations on this theme common denominator is that they're largely plant-based and have very little or no red meat in them there's evidence from other diseases that I think follow that same dietary connection that these interventions have a benefit so cognitive decline slowing of cognitive decline we don't have clinical big-scale clinical trials going on with that goal in Parkinson's it's people still looking for the magic like always the magic metabolite that you know could make a billion dollar drug that you could use to prevent the development but I think Parkinson's is the disease that has the greatest likelihood of having a breakthrough based on you know this microbiome gut brain connection I think that's about all today that I would recommend to somebody and that's what I recommend to my patients if they're willing to become vegetarian I would support that as well not everybody wants to do that once you have the neurological the the CNS manifestations I'm not sure if there's if the diet at that stage plays a big role I don't think we have evidence and perversing you know degeneration at multiple levels of the gut brain axis and the brain stem and the cortex I I kind of doubt it you know so it's but it's still you know there's many millions of patients that you could intervene in a very plausible way about specific yogic practices it can be but generally we take this stand that yoga is a discipline it's not a therapy it has many therapeutic values but you have to bring it into your life as a discipline if we go by therapy then we'll have to look at individual people which we also do in a small scale see we're talking about let's say Parkinson's I don't know who wanted their name on a disease what's your name uh fragile even if you find out some new ailment don't put your name on it so bad way to be remembered so I do not know these things exactly I know fundamentally it is so it's got something to do with what is happening in your kitchen and how it cooks and what happens up there so that much I know so if it is beginning from your gut Parkinson's we still do not know in a individual person which aspect of his neurological system is malfunctioning or weakened what could be genetically intrinsically weak in a given person you don't know that that we can observe and manifest only by looking at the individual patient with a certain closeness and seeing how see somebody may have a particular ailment well for the convenience of treatment you may put them as okay this is this disease but if you pay enough attention each individual person will have variations of the same ailment I have you seen that always so Parkinson's it may be because of a certain symptoms we are saying that but where in the neurological system which is such a wash system where is the damage you don't know so to structure a practice for that which is possible but then it needs a lot of individual time to do that which is once again not first few people it's possible it's not practical in terms of large scale transmission of the same thing so the best thing is how to see that you don't have clients this is my goal is that okay because I'm concerned about health not about disease so how to see that people don't have this like the professor is saying the important thing is you change your diet there are many other things about how you eat when you eat in what kind of mood you eat see right now if we want to just drink this water without some sense of reverence we don't drink this water because water has memory we see this as a living force it's not because I see it so it is you don't understand don't drink water for next eight days you will understand it's a living force it's not just a material and it has memory you can create different kinds of memory in it which part of India do you come from okay in the in those cultures it is there you come from urban culture maybe you don't know but if you go to rural India even today we always gather water the previous evening just filter it with a cloth so that in case any particles are there it should go then we put it in a a copper pot or a brass pot or if it's somehow we put in an earthen pot and then they put some flour on it put some vibhuti or kunkum in a way of being worshipful and leave it there minimum for six to eight hours then only we consume because how you treat the water accordingly treats you that goes for food also that goes for everything that goes into this body if you don't see this as a product that you buy in the marketplace if you really look at it that this is life making material 72 percent of your body is this all right is it not very important hello tell me this glass of water is more important for your life and the making of your life or the god in heaven I'm not trying to scare you it's okay whatever you believe but if you don't have this you will bow down to this we bow down to this when we have it it's very important hello people don't talk to each other when they're alive when they die they go to a medium and they want to talk to them so this is very important that young medical professionals like you I know it's not as easy as I'm speaking but there are possibilities today because in the scientific community just approaching medicine and science like it's a religion I believe this this is all it is those things are not being seen in a positive way anymore people are at least getting sensible enough to see that we know something but we still don't know many things about the way life is made we still have to look at it when this thought process is coming it is possible for you from using your neuroscience's background you can create a health possibility rather than treatment possibilities that's important if you treat thousand people or if you made 500 people really healthy I think there later is better in my opinion one one I mean I totally agree with what you said one one commentary to this is so in addition to you know the ritual and and and and the consciousness about your your food in the water I mean there's also something about the brain god communication so we talked a lot about the the bottom up signaling there's a lot of top down signaling so whatever whatever emotion or assessment or salience evaluation you do about what you eat will be transmitted through the autonomic nervous system to the gut and will will create a gut that's congruent with with your thoughts and and these thoughts may not be conscious so if you're afraid your gut will be in a different shape in terms of being scared so it's sort of you know blood flow and secretion of secretion of acid and mucous and and even even the microbes hear your brain because they have receptors like for for dopamine for no epinephrine for a stress mediator they change their gene expression their behavior based on what goes on in your brain so if you sit down and are afraid of what you're eating that will change the what you call the kitchen you know totally and will prepare a different kind of a meal that's then that's that's them being being absorbed I think people forget this when you're angry when you're afraid when when you have food related fears which the majority of people have now they don't approach food with the sense of getting pleasure from it but they're so concerned about there's something in it that's that's that's bad for them all this does affect it's hard to measure this on a on a case by case basis but we know from the from the wiring and from the power of these the autonomic nervous system affects every single cell in your in your gut and the microbes so I think what you're saying is to have this this this beautiful attitude towards water for example I think I would not be surprised if that changes the reception of that water when you know when you it hundred percent does that hundred percent I don't know if you have a lab evidence or not I'm a living evidence it hundred percent changes I'm curious what is the effect of fermented food on the microbiome and so I grew what is the effect of fermented foods on one's ability to perceive I mean what the effect is on on what we perceive I think that's that's a challenging question you know but what the effect of fermented food is on health so there's pretty good evidence and one is historically I mean humans started fermenting foods pretty more than 10 000 years ago there has been an adaptation of the gut connectome genetically to to having this as a major part of the diet so almost all cultures and peoples around the world I mean the US was an exception really until recently to this but most most cultures have had fermented foods as an essential part of their diet the Koreans to to probably the most the most extreme and so that's one thing a recent study has shown that actually people that eat a large variety of fermented foods compared to a group that optimized fiber intake that that the group that with the multiple fermented food components had a greater had a better gut ecosystem and less inflammatory markers from from that so this group in Stanford the Sonnenberg lab they they're following this up with a larger study was with the clinical trial actually and there's a very interesting things about it people that that ate the fermented foods not only had more microbes from these fermented foods in their gut but this this diet ruined other microbes from other sources that they didn't really know from where from the environment from from microorganisms that only existed in and non measurable quantities before that but it but it has an effect beyond just having more lack of basilar and you got to drew in like multiple others so we've done a study you know early on that sort of convinced me about the importance of the that the gut brain communication that eating a cocktail of four probiotics had an effect the measurable effect on on the healthy brain we don't know if that because people were healthy subjects so I can't really tell you if this had any benefit for anxiety or depression or any any sort of mental disorders but so certainly I think it seems now when this is sort of shift a little bit we'll focus totally on the fiber I think this is shifted towards that fermented foods or maybe as important to maintain and reestablish the healthy ecosystem particularly in situations after antibiotic treatments you know which greatly compromises to your regular microbiome I've seen this many times in when patient ask me so what should I do if you know this that's two two week course of antibiotic for my dental work and so I don't recommend an individual probiotic pill but then why don't you incorporate this for the next couple of weeks and see what happens and generally it could all be placebo obviously in this this area but I usually got a positive feedback on this so I think it's definitely part of a healthy diet and I don't know what the main fermented foods are in in the Indian cuisine but certainly if you go from Asia all the Asian countries have a large variety it doesn't seem to protect them I mean this is always you know you have to have an open mind to this it doesn't seem to protect the Koreans for example from a high prevalence of balsamic disease and colon cancer which is kind of doesn't go quite along with the story but there may be other factors you know Koreans have dramatically changed their diet to a western diet in the in the cities so there could be other factors for that but I would say I would recommend to everybody is as important as to either largely plant-based dietists incorporate several fermented foods you need to be an expert on it to select them because you know you probably want to have the live organisms in it so you don't want to have it you know treated all the bacteria are killed so typically you want it to come out of the section of a market you know but there's a there's a wide variety some people don't like kimchi some people don't like sauerkraut but I think there's a wide variety and some people make it themselves now so in terms of fermented foods and perception see any animal-based fermentation when I say animal-based fermentation there are cultures where meat is fermented literally rotting is considered gourmet there are parts of the world where it is eaten like that this is the worst way to eat it but in those cultures it's become gourmet because these were cultures which were in extreme cold or removed from the rest of the world were large parts of the year if they had to eat food they had to learn to eat and enjoy rotting meat otherwise they would be dead probably in those days similarly I know this is a dangerous terrain to walk into in western world cheese which is also comes from that kind of thing when winters came people would have nothing to eat to keep their calories going the only way was cheese these are all the most terrible things to eat if you ask me if you are thinking of perception when we look at perception the way to look at it is whatever makes your body heavy and opaque in your experience makes you feel the body is lumbering to digest that that's not good for your perception because body is made like this if you if any one activity takes too much energy and effort the other activities will recede it's as simple as that suppose you're using your phone playing too many videos when you want to make the call there's no power the battery is out it's just like that you're using it too much on one level another level goes down so to keep the digestive process being a survival process to keep it at where it should be nothing more nothing less is important some fermentation will multiply the gut biome in many ways so when it comes to fermented food issue it should be under your control for example in chadran india one fermented substance which is consumed daily in breakfast is idli dosa but if we go north of punay or even up to punay no if you go north of bangalore we will not touch it at least i will not because one thing the idli feels like a golf ball in the south idli feels like a flower as you go north it becomes a golf ball you could play with it and they don't know how to ferment they have over fermented it all the time so in south every it's becoming difficult there also otherwise every woman at home would know she'll just always with little finger they touch it like this now this can't be used they would simply know or if you are not very sensitive if you smell it if it's gone beyond a certain point you will know it's fermented beyond a point where you should not eat so this kind of fermented thing we always go and offer to our flowering plants because they flower better when they get this fermented now but once we see that it's fermented beyond that we don't eat the next thing is occurred or what you call as yogurt it is just overnight fermented it's must be still sweet if it is becoming sour little sourness is okay if it crosses that we won't eat because if you ferment it beyond a certain point then it creates a biome of its own not support your biome little fermentation adds fuel to the existing stuff that is your stomach or your elementary canal is fermentation but it is a certain fermentation is a certain culture all right is it the right word sir yeah it's a culture yeah it is a certain culture so you want to culture this in a certain way that's beneficial for you not simply culture it whichever way if it if your stomach feels like a bio factory then what you were talking about perception if you're talking about perception your stomach should send signals to become more and more alert and shop if it makes you like this then there is a perception so one thing is any animal food which is fermented we normally don't eat at all if you must eat a little bit of curd but that is only overnight fermented six to eight hours if it's summer just four to five hours that's how we ferment very carefully if if people want to have a meal at one o'clock in summer in afternoon they will ferment it at morning eight o'clock nine o'clock because the temperatures are hot if it's cooler seasons they'll ferment it just before going to bed in the night next day it'll be ready and this fermented thing how you treat it these days all this is gone I'm people around my table I'm always trying to bring some sense to that in our homes if there is a curd which is just kicked you can't just put a serving spoon like this you have to gently take from one side always they would tell us it's alive you have to handle it gently just from one side you take it and use it because it's life is living see united states america has to do a lot I appreciate why it's become like that because it's a matter of 250 years when they came people came here to wild land they sat and ate wherever they stood and ate wherever even today they're doing that they need not do they have achieved a certain level of education civilization affluence now you must do what's best for you I'll tell you my experience one day I'm driving in Washington DC in the business district not in the political part in the business where CEOs and lawyers and others are there I don't know what these people are maybe CEO CEOs or all young people less than 35 years wage all young people obviously from Ivy League kind of people and looking at their clothes and how they are they're very well to do they're all standing outside this is around 12 30 12 45 lunch hour I think for them and there is some caught maybe it's a I don't know a hot dog some dog part or cow part something it is selling all men and women dressed very well they're all standing there holding food in their hands and like this hacking hacking at their food I just saw this tears came to me what's happened to these people they're well to do at least they can sit on the ground and eat properly no they're hacking at food like even a wild animal won't eat like that this is not good yeah how you eat something is as important as what you eat I'll tell you my first yoga teacher is when I was 11 years of age and in that very simple ashram kind of place daily there's only one thing it's a we called it it's called maze but not the maze that you have not the big maze is a tiny it's a millet let's say this millet and ragi millet which is a smaller millet and there is a pulse which is called as orally or in English they're calling it as horse gram because the English started feeding it to their horses because the race horses were running better with that pulse so it's called as horse gram today in the market and greens which grow all around so you would always say ragi jola orally suppu four things you eat 100 years guaranteed he died at 106 and he he lived till the last day fully active I must tell you a little bit I owe it to him when he was 73 74 years of age he was also a doctor only on Mondays he's a doctor rest of the days he's traveling all around doing his yoga and stuff Monday mornings he's always back in his center the government the state government used to have special buses for this Monday morning business that happens there this is on that day he sits as an Ayurvedic doctor and he treats people those days 600 to 700 people would come from all over this starts at morning four o'clock and goes on non-stop till evening I used to volunteer there just to help him out with these things for every patient that comes he's got a joke to tell them and this whole thing is like a festival it's not like doctor patient stuff people come with ailments when they're sitting and talking to him they forget they're unwell that kind of thing so I I don't know exactly a lot of hundreds of people claim their ailments are gone and stuff he's treating them with medicine not like any other things so all this happens so one Sunday night he came to a railway station which is about 70 kilometers or 69 kilometers from where he is and he found the trains were all cancelled because the railways railway union has gone and strike at that time this was the George Fernandes time Indians will understand who's George Fernandes so there were two other companions with him he just left them on the railways platform and he just ran overnight he ran 70 kilometers morning 4 30 he was there to treat them he was 73 or 74 years of age at that time and then you know we used to get into the wrestling ring with him I was around 15 16 I was all muscle and I'm very quick at least at that time even though I'm okay very quick means I'm much faster than other people in my movements so in the wrestling ring it matters it matters not just the strength how quick you are three of us some of the other boys are much stronger than me three of us get against this man who is like 76 77 at that time he just pins us down we never lasted more than a minute or two three boys strong boy so we would joke with him when are you going to die it looks like the way things are going it looks like we're going first when will you go you would very confidently say I have another 40 years of work I'll finish that and go the way things were going it looked like he was going to fulfill it it once happened three months before he passed away at 106 he was speaking in in my city in Mysore city he was speaking on stage and he had a heart attack that you come to a private hospital and he was in an ICU and he was unconscious when he came to his consciousness somewhere in the middle of the night he saw all these things plugged into him and he's never been to your hospital in his life he just ripped off everything and he looked around then he saw he was on the first floor that is in the in America it's the second floor from there he got out of the window he jumped down and he ran away 105 year old man unfortunately three years later he died but at 106 so I'm saying it's not about just how many great things you eat it's the way you consume it with what because you and food are not two separate things your body the food that you eat the soil that you walk upon the water that you drink and the air that you breathe these are not different from you it is the same stuff here it's just giving us an individual experience if you treat it with as much love as you treat your children if you can't see it as divine at least if you treat it with as much love as you would treat your children it would do fantastic things to you thank you