 We're live now, and today is Wednesday, May 12th. It's about 9 0 6 a.m. and I'd like to welcome everybody to the best committee in the building house transportation and Welcome all you out there in YouTube land. So this morning, we're going to hear from Annie board on did I get that? I got that right the pronunciation. Good. Thank you from car share Vermont speaking to us about how car share works and some of their programs so And if anybody would like to follow along on her PowerPoint her documents are on our Web page house committee web page and under today's date so welcome any and Glad to have you here and Wars all yours. Thank you very much So by way of introduction again, my name is Annie board and I'm the founder and executive director of car share Vermont Which has been around since 2008 serving the Burlington area and I got my start in car sharing 20 years ago just hard to believe in the in the Bay Area actually in San Francisco and specifically in the nonprofit car sharing model of truly being mission-based community based of trying to provide Community members with an alternative to private vehicle ownership. Hi, madam chair and What I put together is a a primer on car sharing recognizing that some of you may be unfamiliar with the mode in general And then open up. I welcome any questions and and hopefully this is new information for you So if it's okay, I will share my screen and start the PowerPoint Lori can you do that? She should be all set now. Okay Before you start any sure Good morning, Dan. Welcome. Welcome to the committee. Good morning. Sorry. I was running late and I had the wrong Link day and that I was logging in. I'm sorry Happens to the best of us. Okay, it's all yours Dan Little hectic this morning and also this morning. I was dealing with I just text Gabrielle might have had the same problem So representative Stevens will be joining us as well. So Thank you for being here. We look forward to hearing about car share because we heard heard about it during some testimony on the in In response to the T bill on replace your ride, I think. Oh, excellent. Great. That's good context So I'll get started So just to offer a little bit of background on car sharing as a mode because car share Vermont is not the only service provider for car sharing It originated in Europe in the 1980s as an alternative to private vehicle ownership So the idea was that why do we need a car or or two vehicles per household when we could be sharing a more Efficient network of vehicles for when people have a vehicle need And the concept made its way to North America about a decade later in the 90s first in Canada and shortly after in the US and it really Expanded throughout the United States largely in urban areas in the late 90s and early 2000s There have not been a whole lot of new car sharing providers to come on scene in the past Decade however car sharing membership has been growing within the existing industry. So it is still very much a thriving industry across the world Car sharing is unique from car ventals car pooling ride sharing ride howling like uber and lift it has some pretty unique features that makes it distinct from those other modes Typically it's a decentralized network. So vehicles are located near where users live and work and can easily access them It's membership based so you join the organization to be able to gain access But membership is usually Open to just about anybody who had who meets basic driving criteria for our service That means being at least 18 years old having at least two consecutive years of driving history And a clean driving record It's a self accessible system. So unlike a car rental Where you would go on site to a rental agency Rent the vehicle check in and out with a person and return it during the specified hours Car sharing is open 24 seven So if you have an urgent need for a vehicle at two o'clock in the morning You can book a car go to it self access it with your own electronic key fob or other device get in and go And it's paid per use so unlike vehicle ownership where you pay for a vehicle Whether or not you you drive it often and it's sitting in your driveway With car sharing you pay for every trip and that makes people more aware of their Transportation spending or at least there there's their spending on driving a vehicle And it can allow for better budgeting and planning It also facilitates a reduction in driving that price sensitivity makes people think about. Hmm. Is this a trip For which I need to take my vehicle or could I walk by take transit Figure out another mode to get there get a ride from a friend carpool Today in the world there are several different models of car sharing So the traditional model that we had started back in in san francisco is is what we have here in the brillington area It's called station based Where it's a round trip shared trip or a round trip car share so You pick up the vehicle and return it to the same location in other cities that are larger and have Where there's greater density and where there are policies to facilitate Parking anywhere in neighborhoods. There's one way car sharing where you could pick up a car from one location And drop it at another and another person can pick it up from that location and the vehicle is kind of just self-distribute Today in the industry there are a number of different providers of car sharing what was originally kind of an independent Whether for-profit or non-profit driven by independent operators Now the market is kind of owned largely by Auto manufacturers and auto rental companies. So companies like enterprise and avas have purchased a lot of the original car sharing providers And they've they've including some very successful non-profit operators And then there are a handful of independent non-profit operators and for-profit operators that serve smaller cities We are unique car share vermont is unique in being one of the very few operators in a city as small as brillington In a largely rural state. So the only kind of similar program to ours a good example would be in ifa coon new york Otherwise car sharing mostly exists in kind of more dense urban areas It doesn't mean that there isn't demand or a need for different car sharing models But the with the way the current market works is in larger cities So a little bit more about about us car share vermont. So as I mentioned, we were founded in 2008 With a mission to provide an affordable convenient and reliable alternative To private vehicle ownership that enhances the environmental economic and social well-being of our region and planet And we do this by providing the self-accessible 24-7 car sharing service that's available to our community. We also Develop and implement a range of mission oriented programs that try to help people Understand the environmental and economic impacts of vehicle ownership and driving We also want to improve mobility for people who otherwise may not have access to a vehicle And this we do this in a number of ways through education outreach programs But also through our mobility share program which provides Free memberships to households and individuals with low to moderate incomes Currently we have just over 900 members Approaching a thousand we did lose about 14 percent of our membership last year during covid With new restrictions on travel and Area college students leaving the community and not coming back But we've been able to maintain a pretty strong membership despite the challenges of covid And as I mentioned, we're among the the smallest car sharing operators in the country and we remain one of the One of a handful of nonprofits So a kind of basics of how it works for those who who are curious about the technology So as I mentioned, the vehicles are all decentralized. They're located in private and public spaces throughout the city We partner closely with the city of burlington and other cities other municipalities where we've located vehicles to have Both on street parking and parking in public spaces We also collaborate with housing developers and property managers to park on site at locations there Vehicles are available 24 seven. You can reserve a vehicle online or with a smartphone and Or for folks who don't have access to technology. They can call our office and we'll help them out with that you Go to the vehicle when you have a reservation and you hold either a key fob or your Smartphone up to the vehicle and it will unlock for you if you have a reservation You get in and drive And as I mentioned you pay according to how much you drive car shares model is to try is to charge both by the hour and by the mile So that our rates are really reflective of how not just the time you have the vehicle, but how far you drive Rates are all inclusive of Gas or electricity if you're using electric vehicle maintenance Repairs we clean the vehicles every every couple of weeks In the wintertime we have volunteers that we call pod nannies that remove snow. So it's really a seamless self-accessible service So today we have 17 Oh, there it is. I was just going to think how many vehicles do you have there you go? I'll be quiet. It's there great so we currently have 17 in service with three more that we are about to roll out and We offer different types of vehicles to meet different types of trip purposes. So we have You know mostly a number of Fuel-efficient small compact cars. We have some hatchbacks. We are adding more Electric vehicles, which is exciting. So we currently have in our fleet one fully electric vehicle and three plug-in hybrid vehicles With three more 100 evs about to roll out. Hopefully later this month as part of a Greenlining initiative that'll talk about in a little bit I mean, let me ask you a question on that man before we go because now it's starting some of it is starting to come back some of the conversation in The senate t-bill. They made available the for the incentive program For a nonprofit that i'm gonna assume that this would be something that you could you could take advantage of in purchasing more Plug-in hybrids or all electrics With that that is exactly right. So Our our program serves a number of people the majority of our members Own zero or one vehicle per household So nearly half of our members are you don't own a car whether by choice or necessity And they're able to access vehicles through our program and we would like to expose them and make make electric vehicles more readily available But for us as a as a small independent nonprofit There it makes a difference to to Purchase a full price ev in there as you probably know, there are not a lot of Used electric vehicles on the market. And so this would allow us to more affordably integrate evs and plug-in evs into our fleet For the purpose of being sharing and it it would maximize our environmental impact So our members already reduced their vmt significantly and reduce their emissions significantly and they could do so even more with with cleaner vehicles Thank you. I see another member's hands up. Representative McCoy Yes, thank you. I apologize. I I had a phone call. So I missed the previous slide on this Did you say that you uh, burlington had a couple of different areas where pickup is possible? Correct Okay, so we we have 17 different locations Oh 17 different locations. Okay. So when the member returns it to the location where they got it from Is the car cleaned at all? I mean, I'm just thinking of our covid world now Sure So at the start of covid we were sanitizing vehicles between trips And that that that was necessary, but it proved to be Not practical for a very small staff So instead we were using ozone generators that we've installed in the vehicles And so between every trip, there is a 90 minute buffer and that generator runs and aerates the vehicle disinfects And then it is ready to go for the next user So there's a built-in buffer members do not have to plan for that Our system will automatically kind of block out the car between trips And then of course we we do watch the the vehicles get a nice deep cleaning every two weeks Or as needed if if it comes up in between And during covid we're encouraging members if To bring their own, you know, hand sanitizer wash their hands regularly and wear masks when they use our vehicles Okay. Thank you You welcome representative smith. You have a question Yes, I do Thank you for this information, annie I haven't got a couple questions. I I don't really see car chair vermont Being very beneficial like brownington or or coventry or derby I got a feeling this is all going to be centralized and in the Cities like the burlington montpelio ruttland am I correct on that? That's a good question. So so the way that um that that current operators exist It has largely been based in urban areas where there's um a range of of modes that make it easier to be Less car dependent. So where there's robust transit and other services There's good, you know biking Um someone someone would need transportation to get to a car share a car and we don't we don't have taxis or or transit or anything around here and There'll be a new port area. Sure in and I think that that's the the greater distances between where people live and work is a challenge in in vermont's more real rural towns Um, I think that there's still a possibility for shared vehicles in areas where there's a town center If it were possible for people, you know to access that car or it could be a different model we kind of rethinking what car sharing looks like in those smaller towns and One way that exists is that people um are able to share vehicles that they already own So a neighbor has a pickup truck. They could share it with their neighbor For a fee there are some some insurance implications for that model Which is called peer-to-peer car sharing But that may be an appropriate way for a group of neighbors to be able to have access to a shared vehicle Um, similarly if a town had a municipal vehicle that wasn't used nights and weekends They could make that available to community members. There would be some insurance Uh logistics to work out, but that could be one way to serve our towns. Okay Uh, you got 17 vehicles and 900 members How the heck do they share? Well, that's a that's a good question. Um, so it's a great question People so our vehicles are used in average of of over six hours a day Did this last month they were used upwards of seven hours a day, but that's unique users So it's not the same person blocking it out for the day Car sharing is typically not used for commuting because it doesn't make sense to pay to you know Drive five miles to get to work and then have it sit in a parking lot for eight hours If assuming you were commuting and not working remotely Um, so people really do use it for short active trips like going grocery shopping getting to medical appointments Uh visiting family you can take our cars out of state. You can take them to canada So people non-covid times more, you know, uh recreational travel um, but the typical reservation is is is short and it's a In a only, you know 20 mile trip So you have multiple users sharing the same vehicle throughout the day and also as I mentioned car sharing Results in a reduction in how how much people drive and so they're able to just Plan their trips around the availability of our vehicles and they tend to drive a lot less The average car share member spends only about a hundred dollars a month on our service All right, and that's a pretty active user All right. Thank you for your information I see Representative McCoy Yes, um This is the grandmother and me coming out. Uh, do you have car seats or does the member have to supply them? Sure, we do serve a lot of a lot of families with young children Most of our staff included and and that's a real important issue that we've we've tried to address But we do not provide car seats um because Car seats come in so many different sizes and specifications depending on the vehicle And so it wouldn't be safe for us to leave, you know an infancy in the car if somebody had a toddler So um people do need to provide provide their own Okay, and then um One more question when you were talking about the possibility of municipal vehicles If they're not used on the weekend the possibility of car sharing or renting them out Uh Maybe insurance issues with that. Do you know of any other A state that actually does that the municipalities do that? I don't know where it is. Um where it is actively happening It is something it is a model that we have um started to explore with with burlington They're not quite ready to to do that this year without with other kind of priorities and um and things going on But you know, for example dpw has um trucks that may not be used on Weekend some of them definitely are but some trucks may not be used and that could be a way that We could expand um The availability of trucks in our fleet. We currently have one Um So it isn't impossible. It would just be working out some risk and insurance We do fully ensure our vehicles at a at a at a level of a million dollars We provide excellent insurance. So our our members would be covered. Um, so I think it is a way that a fairly controlled Risk is just a matter of exploring and trying that Okay, thank you sure Should I move on or are there I think I see one more hand Great something representative white Thank you, madam chair and I've I've read ahead. See this is when you put the slides online Um, and I would just ask that in the next slides if you have the opportunity to cover, um How you see, um Expansion for car share throughout the state I know representative smith asked about kind of the rural angle of things and I'll just put a seat out there You know, I'm a white river junction Hartford handover with dart myth Very similar makeup of a community To burlington it feels like. Um, I'm wondering if you could speak to that, but um, it looks like you have some of that Would be grant that you mentioned sure I will I'd be happy to so so I don't lose track of the question I'd be happy to address that now before before going on into our current grant. Um so, uh as a We we our business model is to be a nonprofit and and that is primarily because we always wanted to be guided by our mission. Um, and also because car sharing is not a A profitable service to provide it is it is expensive and it is. Um, it is similar. It's kind of like micro public transit and so we have been, um Our our ability to expand has largely been restrained by our Funding and our ability to cover the capital cost of that expansion So in in a typical year and not counting covet where our revenues did decline a bit early on We typically cover anywhere from, you know 70 to 80 percent of our operating costs from earned income from our service And so to expand to areas that may not generate that level of usage We would need to identify a sustained source of funding to help subsidize the vehicles We also are a very small set staff. We've got 4.25 equivalents And we're able to efficiently manage our fleet within the Burlington area. We've had vehicles in Winooski We would just need to have a model where if we had vehicles throughout the state and potentially, you know Two and a half hours from our Burlington base that there was a kind of Foundational system to be able to provide those communities with the support they need Our system is largely self-accessible. It can kind of run independent of people But when a person isn't is needed like there's a parking ban and a vehicle gets towed You do need boots on the ground to troubleshoot the situations. Um, and also it's really important We've found in the Burlington area to facilitate the adoption of car sharing having Local community members who are really anchors and and advocating for car sharing to get their neighbors and friends and family to participate So I think that there are You know a couple of ways that car sharing could expand to other parts of Vermont and that is with available funding to help underwrite the The operating costs for those for the for the vehicles that will need more subsidy um and and and other kind of wraparound resources and also partnering with Encouraging housing developers to integrate car sharing into development. So as they're building housing they're thinking about the transportation needs of their residents and You know kind of shifting away from the mindset that everybody who who moves there Will need to or be able to afford to own a vehicle Perhaps having car sharing on site could facilitate some of the transportation needs there Thank you And uh, I I'm excited to hear more about how the microtransit grant in particular might be able to help facilitate some of the Affordable housing work that you're doing too because that we have a lot of affordable housing development coming up in white river junction um because we have a extreme housing crisis um in our part as i'm sure every representative on this meaning is probably experiencing too, but um, it'll be interesting to see if you have suggestions on how we can continue to facilitate that legislatively Thank you I see one more hand. I think that's to representative savage. Please go ahead Thank you, madam chair. Just uh back to just for a moment the The idea of municipal vehicles being used um Which is on the surface not a bad idea, but I think um In my time in municipal government involved municipal government I was always informed that it's against state law for municipal equipment to be used for personal purposes um, so I think if that is the case which I I've heard it from several different sources. We'd probably next year have to do something legislatively to allow that to occur Just the thought Yeah, that's good information and it and it may be that um That an easier way to facilitate car sharing in in smaller More rural towns may be through shared vehicles that are owned by individuals that are privately owned and there are already um Systems available to facilitate that there's a web-based app called truro where if if you own a car that or an extra vehicle that you do not use regularly You can put it into that system and others would be able to see it and um and reserve it and pay for it Yeah, and you'd earn a little income from it. Um Rock food for thought. We're all thinking about like oh, wait a minute. I didn't think of that I used to think about it. I know we'll get off track But watching in my yard like the five back lawns and everybody's doing a track I thought why couldn't we just get one or two tractors? Do we need five? But it goes to that same premise Yeah, I mean There's a possibility if you if we find a insurance underwriter who would cover tractors and we we think about you know being on the lake boats and Last year we were thinking gosh, could we get an RV with kovat? You know to help people but it would be interesting that you know, we don't all need access to these We all need access. We don't all need to own our own vehicle um, so just to give a Sense of our impact what these 900 plus members What what their what their decision to car share results in for our community? So um in 2020 44 of our members reported being car free with 80 86 percent Belonging to one or zero vehicle households. So we survey our members annually and this Stat is consistent year over year Um, so people, you know, I think a lot of people come into car sharing Not owning a vehicle. They may start out as a as a zero house zero car household and we're giving them access But many others start out as two vehicle households and they're downsizing to one or one vehicle households and they're downsizing to zero So for every vehicle we put into service 15 are removed from the road at the rate at which our members shed vehicles Um 75 percent of our members last year reported shedding or opting not to purchase a vehicle when they joined car share vermont and Because car share vermont facilitates a reduction in driving our members Reduce their vmt by over one million miles per year which results in a reduction of over 500 tons of co2 emissions And as I mentioned through our mobility share program, we're able to offer Free memberships to individuals and households with low to moderate incomes This is a program that we've funded through Various means we started it with a with a generous grant from a foundation when those funds expired We had to shift the program so that we were able to continue to subsidize those memberships And we made a commitment to fundraise we do an annual dinner every year that raises money to be able to continue To support those memberships With our greenlining project, which i'm about to talk about We're making a commitment to really grow membership in mobility share To serving 250 households in this coming year So we recently um, we're very fortunate to receive a 100 000 mti grant from vtrans mobility and transportation innovation grant And this was the highest amount, uh, the highest level of funding made available to organizations that had a Project ready to implement on the ground and we were we were thrilled to be able to do that So this is allowing us to locate four to six electric vehicles on-site at affordable and public housing We're partnering with cathedral square champlain housing trust Bha and hopefully others And it will pay for the infrastructure. So the charger and the infrastructure to get the charger installed And then we'll be providing free memberships to all residents of the of the developments And a free annual membership an annual membership typically costs in carship from 150 for the year So that would be waived and the application fee would be reduced And then we're planning to subsidize driving rates for those evs during weekdays And that would hopefully Deepen the affordability of the program for users And this is an exciting opportunity, you know, we've long been committed to using car share as a way to increase mobility and and address inequities in our transportation system And even just having an alternative to vehicle ownership helps us accomplish that But this allows us to do much more by bringing vehicles on-site to locations that will likely require a bit more subsidy So we're really excited about about this project Since securing the $100,000 from v-trans we've continued to fundraise And so we've secured an additional $85,000 which will allow us to to hit that that six vehicle mark If all goes well, so We're excited and I think this is a model that we'd love to continue to expand in our community So I got I've got a question on that. So I'm I'm envisioning myself living at Cathedral Square or someplace And you know as I start should get closer to 80 I may not be driving as much and it may not be I might be a person who has a membership for the car share or in this case have have it available Would I be able to say? Oh, my niece is in town and she's visiting for the weekend. I have a membership Is she would she be able to drive with me? With with a little bit of advanced planning She could join your membership and get in we would just have to verify her driving record And she could use the service under your membership. So we allowed multiple With with permission of the primary account holder. You can have others join your membership. Okay. Thank you Um representative Burke and then representative Shaw Yeah, I don't know if you have more slides if I should wait till the end or I have a couple more, but I'm happy to answer your question. Okay. Well, I have a lot of them All right, Molly or representative Burke. Do you want to you could why don't we finish wait till the end? Yeah, we'll let representative Shaw go and then Molly has a a multitude of really good questions Go ahead representative Shaw Thanks, uh madam chair and annie. I developed some questions On the program I'm very much interested in car share vermont, but I have a couple questions for you And then maybe a comment, but what is your corporate structure? I hear you's talking about san francisco coming to vermont I understand you're a nonprofit, but What is your financial backing beyond the state of vermont? Sure. We're so we're a 501c3 vermont based nonprofit And we are we are governed by a board of directors And we are primarily funded through earned income generated from the service we provide And then we receive support from vermont agency of transportation Year after year from chitin county regional planning commission through the unified planning work program upwp grant funds And through individual donors business donors and foundation support Um We early on in our existence that the the makeup was that we were you know, maybe covered 40 to 50 percent of our operating costs from our revenues So we were more um supported by private foundations in our early days But as we've been able to slowly build our service and build our membership and increase usage of our service We've become largely um self sufficient So you're not governed by you're governed by a I'm assuming a local board of directors not from a national national board or national company Car share California or car share in new york or somebody like that? Correct city city car share was also an independent non-profit car sharing operator, which really just served as a as a model and a mentor For the um the growth of nonprofit operators in other states So from that experience, I bring just that my my experience and my um my interest in car sharing But i'm actually a native vermonter and when when I moved back here It was really rethinking what worked in the bay area is very very different from how how our program operates and in fact Many of the nonprofits in other um in other cities No longer exist because they've actually been Acquired or out competed by the for-profits that have entered the market. So so we're kind of unique and holding our own Great. I appreciate your enthusiasm And thanks for coming back to vermont but You know, I think uh representative whites spoke to this and and I think she's thinking of over in the Uh connect river valley of the need I'm thinking of the need in ruttland and maybe maybe Representative carcum wants to talk about the need in bennington county For this type of program understanding that our populations are much less than the populations of chitlin county and specifically burlington Unfortunately, uh, this is this is nothing. Uh, this is nothing to do with you, hanny, but unfortunately in my view car share vermont only in chitlin county points out The divide between urban and rural vermont and That's just the divide that we from our rules parts of vermont see. So we're longing for these types of services, but Because it's difficult to put those types of services into areas where you don't have the population. I think you scope that to that to representative white beyond what I saw the the Grant the granting money that's in the transportation bill Uh, there's also a piece in the transportation bill that speaks to transportation equity in a report on transportation equity and this this type of program that you're promoting here fits into that because transportation Equality is not equal throughout the state So this is important and I would hope that Maybe we could have you back next year to talk about your thoughts on how to expand this into lower populate plate it populated areas and You know, obviously you'll be back looking for money But how it could work and i'm thinking middlebury middlebury college 2600 students. They all go drive a car I'm thinking bennington area bennington college Some of the larger factories and some of the housing projects down here. We have housing projects all of ramon that that rival of cht cathedral square and in other areas, so The the need is there. It's just how do we get there and i'm not going to ask you to answer that today But maybe when we have you back next session, we can talk about that thank you absolutely all excellent points and um And I think that there are different ways of envisioning a model that addresses the inequity of rural areas and and it and it may serve a different purpose than trying to reduce vmt You know, we're we're likely going to need to increase vmt for a number of people who currently lack access to a vehicle Which I think is still Very important, you know increasing mobility and I and um, so I think that there are ways to to get at that and develop a program that would be Uh more conducive for smaller rural towns and we'd love to keep continue to work on that Great. Thank you for thinking about that force Sure Thank you. Thank you representative shy. I you know, I agree like when we see something we something that's just growing It's been you know, and it's taking off and we all start to get excited about what it could mean Statewide as well. I know that it takes people and it takes It takes people and it takes some some startup money and and then people to keep it going And I would agree I think Rutland area is as much as I would love to see it in my area I do believe Rutland has the the population base If if they so choose to want to have this available to them to maybe make it a financially viable Uh area as well as so so anyway, let's let you finish up and So I I I think I touched on this earlier with the question about um The making a non-profit mobility providers like karsher vermont eligible for the incentives And and the rationale is that we would like to more um readily integrate evies into our fleet and Lowering the cost would make us be able to do that more affordably and of course Pass on those savings to our members. So we typically um You know in a in a typical year without extra funding to help us Would to give us the capital to acquire evies We're typically looking at vehicles like a Honda fit or that make and model that is about an $18,000 vehicle and um And then in contrast an ev without any sort of rebate or incentive could be upwards near $30,000 and so We're just looking to to be able to more affordably make these vehicles available to more people Also research shows that car sharing is a really effective means of exposing the public To evs because they can try them out and then if they ever get to a point in their life where they're needing There's a life change that facilitates a need to own a vehicle. They're they're more likely to To purchase an ev so that is in line with just advancements and in ev adoptions that's happening statewide and nationally and And so that's kind of the that is the rationale for wanting to be included there Um, and and that's all I have for my presentation. Um, I also did want to mention in in response to the comments about You know, how we get this statewide is that Vermont is um Is unique in that we're one of the few states in In new england that has car sharing in in actually the the country that has car sharing in a city as small as Burlington But there are other states and other organizations Thinking about this and there could be some collaboration. I know that main is interested. There are Communities in massachusetts that are interested and so I do think that there are some creative ways to design A program efficiently in collaboration with some of these other partners. Um, that could that could help create The systems to uh facilitate these this more rural model So it's it it may seem far off and like a like a pipe dream to have Car share in a small town or any places like rutherland and bennington, but um, I do think that it is in the future Yeah, I could easily see myself going. Oh, i'm down in boston. I just my ability My membership allows me to access a car around boston or on the coast of main or All these all a variety of different things obviously i'm thinking about going somewhere like all of us So representative burr has has the uh has the floor now to be she's got quite a few questions Thanks. Well and comments Annie I am so impressed with what you've done. I mean, this is amazing You just you took an idea out of your experience and started this amazing thing And you know, we talk about how can we cut carbon emissions, etc, etc And you've just sort of been doing this under the radar So i'm just this is wonderful and it's also great that you've been able to Stay in on profit and I hope that can continue because I know can be tempting to get bought out But um, it seems like, you know, you have that that mission Uh, so I I remember hearing about you weedon My first year in the committee we went to the burlington airport and you and john castle I think came in And talked about this. So that must have been very early on in your in your life of your organization And um, and then I think you came back a couple years ago. Maybe to the committee. Yeah Anyway, it was at the end of the session again And uh, yeah, but I I think I would I would love to like engage with you earlier in the session and You know discuss some of these issues A couple questions I have is and I'm thinking about Brattleboro and I think I meant, you know, and again It's sort of one of these towns where maybe is there enough density except we have a lot of Sort of low-income housing that's close to downtown and and even more is coming and And also in some other developments out A little bit out, you know, a couple miles out of town So I could see like being able to work with some of these providers of housing And like like you mentioned and I'm excited about that. I want to put our sustainability coordinator in touch with you To just start conversations His name is Steven Dotson. So if you don't mind, I'll do a little email introduction And um, but one of the questions I have is okay, if you have cars parked on the street like in Brattleboro We have a parking ban during the winter and I know Montpelier has a parking ban only when when the You know on certain days when they when they send out an email saying we got to get your car up the road and that I was a victim of not doing that one morning and had to go get my car at seven o'clock in the morning way out on elm street. Anyway, um So I'm just wondering how you deal with that And also then my other questions are how do you like who fills up the gas tank? And and and who charges the car? And is that all done by volunteers or how does that all work? Sure. Good questions. So the parking it's I mean that is the reality of being in a in a rural state And in a winter state where there are parking bans and it can be it can be a real hassle In Burlington we every year have to find off-street alternative parking for vehicles Fortunately parking bans are announced in advance. So we have some warning and we do have Either among our staff and some volunteers that will relocate vehicles when there's a ban and move them back When it ends and our members know if the parking ban lights are on And you have the vehicle, you know, you're returning it after midnight You need to return it to the parking ban location It becomes trickier when you um when you are operating remotely, you know, you're serving a different community so we were in Montpelier for two years and It wasn't always clear when there was a parking ban and sometimes it wouldn't be snow related It could be because a water line broke and we wouldn't know and our vehicle would get towed and it could create A real headache for the users there and so I think that speaks to the need to have it There really needs to be a kind of a local presence and some some, um, you know volunteers but also some paid positions to To be able to service or through partnership, you know, if it is a housing developer So, you know, that wouldn't be an issue because the vehicle would be off-street But but having some sort of a local anchor to deal with some of those logistical challenges It might be good if we take down the the shared screen so we can see everybody else Yes, good point Did I just do that? There we go Well, I still have the screen up I think maybe if you go and Exit, I don't know. There we go. There we go. It is. Okay, great um so uh So we were able to to deal with those challenges in Montpelier But they can create a ripple effect and then our service becomes less reliable You know, if the if the person showed up for the vehicle that was towed that can create a really unfavorable experience for for the community But it's not impossible to solve and then the issue of of gas or recharging the vehicle that's on the member So we we do place a Fuel card or in every vehicle or a charge card if it's at a charging station And it's the member's responsibility to either leave it with a quarter tank of gas minimum quarter tank So stop for fuel And we pay for it or to plug in the vehicle at the end of the trip and during a trip in an EV They really need to plan carefully. So if they're planning to take the vehicle You know out of state or beyond the vehicle's Range that they'll need to allow for that time and pay for that time to charge during during their trip And can you take a vehicle like overnight say somebody wanted to go skiing somewhere? They could take the vehicle up to you know To mad river glen or someplace and stay the weekend and come back Absolutely, you can go anywhere in the u.s. In canada Uh-huh great. I was thinking can I go to canada? Yeah All right, um, I think that's all my questions, but uh Definitely exciting and it sounds like somebody from your organization has been down to the the yard where they tow the cars in Montalier How many other people on this call have had that happen? Anyway, okay, thank you so much for for your work. It's really exciting You're welcome. Thank you We're really glad we could have you come and we've seen your name on on different things and and we hear about it But I personally haven't had you and I see that we've got a few other hands up We've got representative Stebbins then representative Bartholomew and then representative smith I'm sure I just had to say this is my constituent and isn't she? So that was all I wanted to say, um, annie. It's great to have you here and it's also just great to have someone who Um, what uh, representative Burke was saying, you know had an idea. Did that moved it forward? And I know it's been It's not like uh for for the committee members, you know, it's it's steady as the course And and to the extent that we could figure out how to support this into other places into Rutland and to Brattleboro I Um, it's it's a it would be really fantastic if we could add that to our Aussie toolbox, um in terms of you know, the various options that people have to to see more Quitty and transportation. So thanks so much for coming annie. I just wanted to Toot my constituents horn. Okay. Thank you That's always that's always a unique healing I have to tell you that I used to feel so bad for representative Cooper everyone in the witness chair was always a constituent She was in my failure. So, um, I think my first it's so exciting Representative Bartholomew and then representative Smith I had a couple questions about your um, your costs and one that pops to mind is insurance Is it really difficult to find a company that will cover these vehicles at an affordable Rate and I'm thinking particularly what happened to my insurance rate when I added a driver who was under 25 um It seems like it would be extraordinarily expensive with To underwrite a vehicle when you don't know who's going to be driving it Sure, or how far It is complex and Knock on wood. We are fortunate in Vermont. We're we're insured by The alliance of non-profit insurance or a ni Which only insures nonprofits and only in certain states where they underwrite plans policies and vermont is one of them they actually originated in vermont in california so they also were the insurance underwriter for City car share way back when They are no longer really engaging Too much in the car sharing industry because it is a high risk industry and there are other underwriters But um, typically they are looking at the premiums are so significant based on volume. So it would be really challenging for Or very expensive for a small operator to acquire insurance And some states that are no fault states like new york It is Excruciatingly expensive to acquire insurance and and that issue alone is what put buffalo car share one of our peers that started A year after car share vermont it put them out of business and it was really unfortunate because Buffalo Is a is a much different community than than brillington. There are some similarities But 85 percent of buffalo car share members were low to very low income And then they just completely lost their their mobility option when buffalo car share Their underwriter dropped them from their insurance. So it's a tricky issue our insurance compared to our peers is You know is relatively affordable. It still is a significant cost of you know operating costs for us to overall But we're Lucky compared to some of our friends in other states So because insurance rates are usually based for for auto are usually based on on driving record age And how far you drive? Well, so when you mentioned doing a car share Um Say a group of people wanted to get together and and do it if I'd like if I wanted to car share my car Would I be able to get insurance to do that because I'm not a non-profit? It would be um, you would need to do it through an existing system. Um, I To to be clear, you know, some people I think are already doing that informally whether or not they're assuming some Risk is in question, you know, many insurance underwriters have a provision that if you Make your vehicle available for hire so in exchange for payment They will not provide coverage for that incident if they're if there were an event a collision or or damages So I think that people may be doing that informally with or without Understanding what their policy will cover platforms like churro that I mentioned where you can put your vehicle online. There is a A a basic modest level of insurance that is that is covered for you as the vehicle owner and for the person borrowing your car But it is not black and white and it gets tricky and and an insurance Provider could still deny coverage. So there are some legislative changes that could try to Safeguard that mode more and other states have made provisions to facilitate the expansion of of peer-to-peer car sharing In in in our instance at car share vermont We've been our model has has worked because we are in, you know The densest part of the state where it is quite possible for people to live car free So there was less need to facilitate sharing among among personally owned vehicles, but I see that as being An effective way to to make car sharing available in outside of changing county So so you're quite fortunate, but really the insurance question is is an impediment to To the way the industry set up. That's what I'm hearing you say it is and you know our underwriter has been Loyal and and study and we've been fortunate to manage our claims and we have had some losses We lost we had a string of of of crashes to a couple of years ago No injuries, but we've lost a number of our vehicles And they keep ensuring us but they won't ensure things like our vehicles cannot be used for ride-tailing So somebody could not join car share vermont and then work as an uber or lift driver to gain employment That wouldn't be covered And so those are issues that we you know, you could have a more complex integrated system if our vehicles could be used for those multiple purposes Um, you know our our underwriter prohibits even using our vehicles for you know, like a volunteer driver program as well And that's not something that is If you know impossible to to try to shift but at the moment we have some restrictions And my other question relates to your upfront costs Maybe you said and I missed it, but it seems like your model is kind of backwards versus um Uh, and I'm I don't mean that in a negative way but in terms of you have this huge upfront cost to buying a vehicle and your income then is is um a relatively low monthly fee or You know use fee to recover the money that so how do you come up with that upfront cost to buy them? Is that all through grants? It's shifted over the years so in early on in our inception I forgot to mention that we we do partner closely with our local campuses uvm and champlain college And early on in our existence the those institutions actually Purchased some of the vehicles that were part of our fleet so that if you know They were taking a risk wanting to support a local startup nonprofit And if things did not go as planned, you know, they would still have the asset of of owning those vehicles We've since acquired those vehicles and and replaced them and and many others And so in some instances Depending on our our finances and our cash flow we'll lease vehicles and we do work with a commercial leasing agency Or we will finance vehicles with our local bank And sometimes we'll have we do have enough capital. We also are in the market of selling our vehicles so uh every you know depending on on how the vehicles condition we can keep the vehicle Up to at most maybe six years, but we're usually selling it before five years And so we have the this this the sale of the asset goes towards the purchase of another vehicle So sometimes we're able to just use our cash. It really depends Kind of where we are in the year and and what our cash flow situation and it's really difficult to procure Grants for those capital expenses. So we're fortunate with this current round of funding from V-trans that it can be used towards capital expenses like like purchasing these EVs Well, that could be a real impediment if someone wants to start up a new Ride share in another because because that big upfront cost Yeah, okay. Thank you. You're welcome Thank you representative Bartholomew. I have representative smith And then representative Burke. Is that a new hand or an old hand? New new hand. Okay Representative Smith, please go ahead Thank you. I just had someone for fishing game call me on another question, but they'll call me back You you could you give me an idea of your rate breakdown? Like if someone wants to rent a vehicle to go from Burlington to Rutland or something like that for say three hours or four hours Give me an idea what it might cost Sure. So we charge by the hour and by the mile And it does vary depending on what rate plan you're on we offer different membership plans that people can choose based on how much they think they're going to drive So for example, if you are in our 100% electric vehicle, that's a flat fee as well because we're not paying for fuel. We just include However, many miles, you know, you can drive There actually is a is a is a day cap on the mileage, but but anyway, that's a flat $10 an hour So you can predict how much time you're going to need for the trip and then you can calculate that way for our Other vehicles the minimum driving rate is 650 per hour and 38 cents per mile and with again gas and insurance included and then you can You have a calculator on our reservation page and our website So that if you can kind of get an estimate of your destination and do the round trip, you know the distance You can get a good idea of what it what what it'll cost But it really does depend on those two inputs. How long you're going to have the vehicle And and where you're traveling to and from All right. Thank you one of the question if you've got a member That has been a member with you for a while and sometimes over a course of a year or so as being a member That member requires a driving record that is not Does not go along with what your requirements are. How do you keep track of things like that? so um We at the start of of membership. We do run a driving record verify and members then commit to a member agreement where they are responsible for reporting any violation that would make them ineligible We don't have a way to pull a driving record is uh Has a direct hard cost if it varies by state, but it's up to I think it's $28 now in vermont So with 900 people we don't run the records every single year We Could systematically come up with some randomized way but that we may miss people So really it's on the member's responsibility to uh to inform us otherwise they're in violation of our member handbook and according to our member handbook if they were if they then were in An incident or you know had a crash for their vehicle and they shouldn't have been covered We have the right to deny responsibility Okay, thank you Come up, but Hope you hopefully you won't last question You must compete with enterprise Because their rates are similar to yours We are um We Probably do compete with car rentals. We don't think of it as competition however because We think of it as as our community members and users having a range of modes that they can access so if they are Planning a trip out of town and a rental from enterprise or from our local rental company We've got majestic in burlington if that is the the cheaper option when they factor in insurance and gas we say Go for it because then it leaves our vehicles available to other members. So we see the modes as being really complimentary and and whatever pieces people can fit together to help them own fewer cars. We think that's great Thank you very much sure Are you also at representative smith? I am. Thank you madam chair You're you're you're welcome. Listen committee. We're good. Um representative burk his hand is up But I just want to let you know that um at 10 15 um Myself and anthea and chris rubar jfo and ledge council We're going to go down to ways and means for a drive-by on uh S 47 because there was a question about how much the if there was a impact on the revenue So we just want to make sure that we we've got that straight now and representative ansel made a funny She said oh, maybe we can just do a drive-by Ha ha and I went oh my god. It's catching on. So that's her one for the day So I just want to let you know that I'm going to go to do that just to make sure things are things are okay Um, which I know they will be and I'll leave you with the the best of hands of representative shaw but after this witness Then we're good for the day unless something should pop up And then we just follow lory's direction and she'll lead us. She will always lead us home Right lory right All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna head over okay Or I'll listen in for a minute, and then I'm gonna head over representative burk. Please go ahead Thank you, madam chair, and we will miss you terribly, but sure you can Do a very good drive-by Two ways of means I'll try not to speed in any speed zones at all So annie, I just wanted to you sort of reference something about possible legislation And it occurred to me that it might be helpful for us if you could sort of Gather together some possibilities That might might help your organization with legislation and I think you have a direct rip to a Your legislator You could communicate that way and and she could communicate it to us So just a little bit something you could We could be looking at over the summer. That's good. Great. Thank thank you for that invitation, you know We have a lot of ideas and we're also fortunate You know to have support from the legislature and also support from v-trans and some great advocates there, but You know, we've long had the idea of If there could be an entity Similar to how there's an entity that governs public transit that can be thinking about these innovations and public transportation to include modes like car sharing, you know, it's It may not be possible to serve every town with a with a with a bus route and and Invest in that infrastructure, but it could be possible to invest in various forms of car sharing that could meet a real mobility gap for residents and You know, we need to do more thinking as to how that would work But there needs to be some sort of infrastructure and support and funding Because it's not going to be Efficient or remotely cost-effective for a town that wants to, you know, maybe put one vehicle in service to build this web-based technologically intensive system To make that available to its residents. There are some efficiencies if there could be one kind of cohesive Service that other towns could tap into if they You know apply or meet some conditions and you know, we would be Thrilled to help Help work on that Maybe building off of the micro transit Happening in my pillar. Anyway, great. All right. Well, we should definitely continue this conversation. Thank you So any Thank you. I don't see any hands up So you apparently have worn the committee out. So that's really good You answered a lot of questions and we appreciate it You have us thinking and I hope we have you thinking too on some of the comments that were made here And uh, we'll surely be talking in the future Now we know we're aware of your program and there seems to be interest in it and some expansion somehow for motz a great partner, maybe Maybe a little more conversation with with aot would be helpful So if anybody had anything else more for Uh For our witness annie from car chair from mont seeing none. Thank you annie for coming in and and we'll see you again. I'm sure Thank you for the opportunity. Okay. Thank you. All right. Take care. Right by now. Bye. Bye So for the committee, uh Just heard biann say that we're This should just be done, but I believe lori. Uh, you're gonna keep the Invitation open. Is that true? Yes Okay, so if we need to come back or if you just feel like coming back and hanging out and talking to lori or anybody that Happens to be in here. Come on back. I see tim with a rise smile on his face. He's not coming back So, uh, so thank you and lori