 Thank you. Okay. Hi. My name is Alicia Walker and I am calling this meeting to order as co-chair. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present. I'm calling the August 26, 2021 meeting of the community safety working group to order at 533pm. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Russ Vernon Jones. Present. Pat and on a Baku. Present. Deborah Ferrera. Present. I want to take a couple minutes to review the agenda. We will first hear any public comment that members of the public want to provide to the working group. We will not respond to your comments, but we'll listen to your comments carefully. Okay. And so are there. I don't currently see anyone with their hand raised. So I would like to go over the agenda first and then we will hear members reports if there's any members of the group who has anything they would like to report at this time. The agenda tonight is as follows a discussion on the IFB six transparency. Oh, proposed timeline and meeting schedule transparency and public access to data. And then we will hear specifically from those who've been working on traffic control. Resident oversight board follow up update on the drafts that we've been working on and to approve the Y BIPOC document and the crest implementation follow up to today's meeting. At this time, I would like to see if there are any members who has anything they would like to update update us on that they've been working on. Mr. Vernon Jones. I'm going to need to leave the meeting at 725 today. Another commitment. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Farera. Yeah, and I'll second that, you know, for me really 730 so maybe we should try to wrap up because I have to leave definitely by 730. Okay, thank you, Ms. Farera. I think that we might be able to do that. Okay, and unless anybody else has something they would like to share at this time. We can go right into the first agenda item, which is going to be the IFB six. And update as to how we have split the document. I'm not sure if that has been shared with the group yet. Ms. Moisten. So, can you see my screen now I started. The first thing is the IFB six. The latest thing that I received was from Pat on a Baku and then also from Brianna Owen. So there's Pat's email and then this is Pat's additions and then this, these are Brianna's. I'm not sure which one. Ms. Moisten, I can see your computer but I cannot see the documents that you're referring to. Oh no, that's not a good. That's not good. Can you see them now. Yes, I can see the email. Yes, Ms. Pat. If I understand you correctly, Alicia, you're referring to the IFB document that we're involved and the coaches were supposed to split them up. You know for consultants, I don't think we received that. Oh, I forwarded it the other day that's this one with regard to each of the issues identified below the consultant will. Is that correct Brianna. So I took from the last meeting that we had Ms. Pat the sections. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They should be the same. Yeah, they're the same. Yeah. I guess. Yes, what I meant to say is do we know the consultant that you guys, you know, have contacted and who is doing work. That's what I meant to say sorry. Yeah, no problem. So, um, yeah, so we would like to update you all that we have reached out to seven gen in regards to the racial justice portion of the IFB. And in regards to the second and third portion, which we thought might be able to be grouped together depending on what the consultant believes they have the capability to do. So we have reached out to the African Dyspora Mental Health Association, leap, and doctors. Is she Dr. Brianna Suda funding attorney. So, yeah, sorry, thank you. So we have reached out to all of these people but we have not heard back yet so they are still reviewing the document and have not made a decision. So, can you clarify like into how many segment, if you guys contacted four different groups or individual. Yep, so for the, oh sorry Brianna you can go ahead if you would like. Yeah, so just before this meeting seven gen did get back to us we sent them over the entire IFB that we had in mind and they highlighted the portions of the contract that they thought that they could do. And we got that about I want to say 10 minutes ago. I can pull it up on my screen if the group would like. That would be helpful. Thank you all see. So this is what they sent us a little bit before this meeting and they highlighted the parts of the contract that they believe they could do in the amount of time in the allotted amount of time. Okay, yeah, so it looks like the highlighted set the highlighted portions contain parts from each section. Yeah, from each section. Yes, Miss Pat. And did you guys do the same thing to other groups to pick what they want. Um, no, so I actually reached out to seven gen and asked if they I sent them the entire IFB contract and asked if they'd be interested in focusing on the racial justice portion which was just the first, the first portion. But this was the response to that. So, they do have most of the. First, first part so they actually only have one part of the racial justice portion highlighted here as to something that they think there is enough time so in here in red, they also indicate that the reason why they don't think they can address a or C is because of the time constraint. So, in regards to the other groups. We reached. So our thought process was because Brianna and I also had a chance to meet with Sean, in regards to the IFB and the consultant process was that we would look for one consulting group, hopefully seven gen to do the racial justice aspect. And that the second two we could break into two different. We could have them stay as two separate portions but that they could also be done by the same person if they had the right expertise to do both. And so I think we were, we sent this out to three other agencies or organizations or people in hopes that we could follow through with the three quotes process if they were all interested but we haven't received feedback so we got into the part where we asked them for a quote for the work yet. So we, I guess we're waiting to see if any of these people have interest in what their interest would be and if it would be for the entire document or for what portions. Miss Owen, and then Mr Vernon Jones. I remember at the last meeting the group had identified leap as a possible consulting group that we'd want to approach I just wanted to make sure the group knew that that was not a BIPOC led organization. But I didn't reach out to leave but I just wanted to let you guys know that that will make a huge difference. Okay. Thank you miss Ellen Mr Vernon Jones. I don't know. I heard, I think it was the town manager mentioned me that Shawn mangano had some concern that the racial justice piece was too close to the contract. The initial contract we had with seven gen, and there might be a problem with legally with providing another contract that was basically the same, the same work. And I think, and there's also an issue with leap in the sense that they have, you know, we be important that whatever we're contracting with them now is different than their existing contract with them or else that's not going to be legal. And all that. As I kept working on the traffic things for today. And I got found myself getting more and more interested in now really having a dashboard or public website where everybody in the community could see the data about police stops and arrests and searches and, you know, by race, and everything and I found some, some very interesting ones that various police departments have have put up. And I would love to see if we could find somebody who would actually do the software development and design a dashboard that would let us actually have transparent police data right away. And not make that somewhere down the road with more money required to make it happen. And I think we've, since we originally wrote this IFB thing we've made progress on a lot of pieces of it. But we don't have the capacity to design and do the computer work to present that to present the police vehicle arrest stop data. And I think that will be a very tangible concrete message both the officers about who they're stopping and the community about being able to see what's really happening. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Miss Pat. Thank you for your suggestion. I am wondering if it's something that the Oversight Review Board may want to pursue. I am looking at our timeframe and at this point we're not even sure if we even have a handle of, you know, other concerns that might be able to work with us with the timeframe. And, I mean, we can do, you know, have a website, you know, to be transparent, it will be up to the APD if they want to report, report things. In 2004, actually the select board, the town meeting, you know, had recommended actually created a group to look into traffic stop racial profiling. The APD just ignored it completely. They didn't do anything. You know, I hear you, I want to support what you're saying. I don't know, I can't speak for the group. You know, do we have the capacity to even have a consultant to do it for us within the timeframe. In addition to the charge that it that the town manager gave us. Thank you, Miss Pat. Miss Ferreira. You know, as you all know, I wasn't here at the last meeting, so I know a lot has kind of transpired. So I'm trying to follow the conversation in terms of the FB six conversation. You know, so for me that, you know, since I wasn't at the last meeting, and kind of hearing all of this, I'm kind of feeling like, you know, it's going to be a lot of managing to, you know, which I'm assuming you all took into consideration in doing three different people working on, you know, three different kind of companies working on on all the different areas. So for me that's a concern, you know, because obviously that's going to be time to also kind of make sure that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing and things like that. But obviously, you know, that, you know, it is what it is. Part two, I'm feeling the same concern that, you know, Miss Pat is having, which is, you know, we have really just two months and really I, you know, on my calendar. And I don't know if this has changed because like I said, since I wasn't here at the last meeting where we're supposed to be presenting the town council on the 18th of October. You know, as a deadline and our due date, you know, to kind of have the recommendations in, you know, week prior, let's say, you know, then presenting to the town council on the 18th. So, you know, that's a month and a half. You know, they were talking about. So I think we really, you know, it's time for us to kind of really kind of be realistic about things, you know, where are we at, you know, you know, we need to kind of, you know, figure out, are we hiring someone now? If we're not, then let's just focus on what we need to do, which is come up with the recommendation, which is what we've been doing all along, you know what I'm saying. But, but that's my concern. So I just kind of wanted to put it out there so that we can, you know, like make some decisions and in terms of the dashboard to yeah that would be something else even though that that is a great idea but I don't know if we have the time to be able to do that. So I think it's time for us to really kind of hone in and try to figure this out because our timeline is becoming shorter by the minute. Thank you, Ms. Farera, Ms. Pat, and then Mr. Vernon Jones. So I'm hoping moving forward that we start wrapping this stuff up, whether or not we get consultant in our record will be realistic what we're able to do. The top manager was very clear to us that he was only interested in the oversight board, but in our recommendation we could say we couldn't we couldn't get to topic, you know, XZ and Y, because we didn't have enough time, you know, we would recommend a replacement group or whatever consultant, you know, we cannot, I wouldn't want us tonight to create another subgroup to work on any other topic. Even we have a four, we have four topics left. And I was going to propose something tonight in our next topic, but I will hold up on that. I don't, I don't want us to take on any task anymore. We should be wrapping up, we should be doing recommendation and submit. The bank also is not going to act on most of the stuff that is record, you know, to show that we did something. So let's not, I mean, when, you know, some people are burning out, our attendance, you know, has changed. Some people can't make it anymore. Some people are making a, and that's life. You know, I think we should try to wrap this up. It's my thing. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, I agree we should not be taking on a lot of new things. Data has always been on this list. And it's one that I don't think we'd need to do much about we're looking for somebody to do the computer work to do the presentation that would make it accessible. I don't want to do that, but I, my fear is that the resident oversight board isn't going to be given the funds to, to carry something like that out. And I don't know whether some way we can, you know, set aside some of this money for them to use instead of us, I don't know. The manager also told me talked to Lynn Greece mirror, and as far as she was concerned, we could wait until mid November to report. What I thought we should think about do we want to report before or after election day. I think we should wrap this up, up by middle of October. If there is a town council meeting, let's just wrap it up. And I think we should have a week off prior to election. And I think in September, we should meet maybe two or three times. There's no need for us to meet weekly, please. We should not be meeting weekly anymore. Thank you, Ms. Atmos Ferrero. So I guess Mr. Vernon Jones, I need, I need some clarification on that because I thought we were done November 1. You know, I'm saying so now we're going to be presenting mid November. I mean, so I guess I'm just terribly confused at this point. You know, my thing is, you know, we're done November 1. We need to be presenting to the town council by the 18th as we had discussed. And we need to wrap up our work, you know, unless you know, unless something has changed and the town manager has given us more time. I'm not doing anything after November 1. I'm just putting it out. You know what I'm saying. Because I'm going to come back and go present to the town council in November. See that I'm part of CSWG. I'm not part of CSWG. You know what I'm saying. And for me, that's it. This is when you're saying you're disbanding us, then you're disbanding us. You know, I'm not doing anything else after that as part of CSWG. In terms of this other stuff, I think, you know, we just need to figure out, I guess I do want to hear back from Alicia and Brianna to see, okay, you've contacted these folks. What are they saying? I know I had given us a date shirt and like, okay, I can commit to this, this, this, this as of I can start working at this. I guess that's the thing I want us to have some hard deadlines now in terms of like, okay, if you can do some of these things. Okay, you can do them by when certain things like that because if not I think we need to move on basically and just see what we have to do ourselves in terms of the work that we already put out there. You know, and I don't think we need to be chasing down people anymore at this point because time is of the essence in terms of like, we only have a month and a half. That's it. Thank you, Ms. for Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, this was a very brief conversation I had with the town manager about something else and he threw in that he'd had this conversation with Lynn Griesmer. I don't think he was advocating one way or the other. I've got no investment one way or the other. If you all want to be sure we present before November 1, then I think we should tell the town manager and the president of the town council and just go ahead and do it. I'm like you, I think we need to be wrapping things up. I'm not sure that having consultants give us more information at this point, unless we're really clear about what it is is going to be all that that helpful to our process of, you know, making firm recommendations. Thank you Mr. Vernon Jones, Miss Pat. I actually like what the coaches did by sending the entire thing to people because of time constraint for them to look at what they cannot cannot do for us. If Sean Mangano is saying that Seven Gen did social racial justice work, but a, from what they have highlighted, it seems like it's a little bit different. So I will not see, except for one, right, except for one of the topics. So if that's what they can do, let's give it to them that we need to get some commitment from them. The coaches you need to check with Seven Gen and see, you know, when they think realistically, they can do this report for us. And, you know, if they can do it within one month, meaning by the end of September, that would be really awesome, so that they can report back to us. For other, for other topics, if they don't respond back, we just, in our final report and say we couldn't get all this done because of time constraint. The, the place, the placement committee can continue. What else can I say, but I don't want us to move CSWG beyond November 1. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Ferrara. To be clear, I did not swap to Sean Mondano directly myself and if there is an issue, whether there's an issue there or not is something I think we should check out with him. You know, before we, you know, go forward but don't don't take it on my say so from what I heard. Right. Sorry, Ms. Ferrara, just before reply to Mr. Vernon Jones comment just because so Brianna and I were able to meet with Sean and he did bring up that concern. But it was that it says the previous contract with seven gen that he was going to review it and determine what additional work is needed because he thinks that most of those things were already covered under their first scope of work and that we wouldn't be able to put another contract with the same exact scope of work. So that was the last email that I have from him, which was two days ago is that he was going to review their previous contract to make sure that there weren't any conflicts but he hasn't gotten back to us yet. Okay. Thank you and Ms. Ferrara, sorry. Yeah, I mean, you know, again, unless, you know, the time manager comes back and says otherwise I think we just want to work with that we're done November 1, you know what I'm saying. Because we need to and I'm with Ms. Pat in terms of her wanting us to kind of have like a timeline of tasks and you know this is when we get this done by when because if not it's going to get really unwieldy. I mean, I'm working with November 1, I don't want to entertain anything else, unless obviously the time manager comes and meets with us and, you know, asks us that he wants us to do I don't know, you know, obviously, and we as a group would have to kind of discuss that, but I don't want to, I don't want to change anything based on just, you know, a discussion that we don't really have a lot of information on. And, and, you know, and yeah, I think we need to decide on just kind of kind of hard deadlines in terms of moving forward. Thank you miss for miss Owen. Yeah, moving forward I can go and look back at the contract, because I do remember that email and I can follow up with Sean, in regards to the scope of work being continued, or being repeated. Yes, miss Pat. Is it possible for the coaches to get in touch with other consultants to see if they're interested and just update the list. You know, don't include the one that seven gen have identified and we send it to them and said, if they're still interested, and if that is the way we can know, so that when we meet on the night, you know, we know what to do and decide, you know, how to proceed. Thank you miss Pat. Um, I would be okay with doing that. And I think that though we may need to reach back out to Sean because when we met with him we went through the three categories that we came up with. And he was able to agree that they would require different skill sets, which was why we'd be able to have them offered on different contracts but so since the things that seven gen chose were from different portions I'm not sure if that would cause a conflict. So I think that's something I would have to look into first, but if it does not then I would be happy to do that. And I also, yes, miss Farera, just quickly for the other two consultants because I guess it was leap and then the other attorney have they when was it I guess just for my own clarity when was it that you all contacted them and how long has it been since you heard back. Yes, miss Owen. We contacted the law professor at the beginning of the week and we had a preliminary meeting with leap as an introduction call, and we reached out to Amos Irwin after that call. So it's only been three, three or four days. All right. Thank you, miss Farera. And I think that unless there's something else you all would like to go over in regards to the IFB I think it might be a good time to pull up because Brianna actually was able to put together a preliminary schedule of what we thought the next or the rest of our meetings would look like and what information we would go over it miss Owen. The schedule that I put together for a group was with the intention that we'd go over all of the topics that we took out of the IFB, but after hearing the group wanting to finish on November one I don't think that this timeline is realistic. I'll go back and rewrite a schedule for next week's meeting. I proposed this schedule with keeping in mind that we would address training supervision, accountability, looking at APD partnerships, looking at the hiring practices and racial diversity at the same time putting a subcommittee together to write the final report. But given we want to end on November one and not do any more subcommittee work. I don't think that this agenda is realistic or this proposal. Thank you miss Owen. Miss Pat. The email I sent to miss Marston to send to everybody that we had the four topics left. My thinking tonight, you know, you know, at this meeting was for us to decide do we all agree that we're all in agreement about community policing that we're not going to address that until visioning and healing of our town happens. And we're proposing that in the Dr. Barbara Love will help the town to do that. And the other topic, the training supervision, accountability, I was going to propose tonight that we give it to the one of the consultant to do for us. Number three, a topic is the one that Brianna raised, you know, I will defer to her as to, you know, I think and I say it being related to community policing I could be wrong. And then I did last one number four, I don't think it's very, very critical, whether or not we hire BIPOC at police officers, nothing is going to change. Let's not kid ourselves. I mean, it does somebody want to tackle number four, but it's not going to change anything in cities and communities where you have access to, you know, come from different racial background and diversity. Nothing has changed. It has not changed. So that's my take my point is, let's, you know, decide tonight like we're not going to have a subcommittee work on any of this. When we meet next time, we'll start doing recommendation. Mr Vernon Jones. I was having trouble following the numbers while Ms Pat was speaking is. Are you talking about the numbers on the document that's on the screen. Yes, yeah. Yeah, could you slowly scroll that down so we can see the other sorry. Mr Vernon Jones. I believe that number three is really sort of part of community policing and I like the way Ms Pat phrased it that we're not going to address that until the healing and visioning it happened. I mean, not that we wouldn't might be a statement or two in our report but we're not going to really get into it. And I, I'm not sure there's much we can say about hiring practices at this point it's going to make a difference. But whereas number two, that feels more to me like a long term resident oversight board task. And I don't think I mean I want us to make recommendations around traffic and around data and resident oversight board, and that's probably about all that people can handle from us right now. Mr Vernon Jones. And I would also just like to add so I'm in agreement with what you all both just said. However, I think that number four that there is some sort of, if we can bring it into our report and explanation as to why we didn't end up looking at that information can be very helpful for others who aren't in understanding as to why hiring practices and racial diversity doesn't make the greatest impact in terms of policing. So I think that it might be helpful to just add something about that in our final report, even if we don't address it specifically. Miss Ellen. I would just say in regards to the other APD programs and the partnerships type of thing. I think that does fall in place with community policing and I think after the community healing and reenvisioning the community can start thinking about the partnerships that the APD has. My, my concern with that was the APD working with organizations that are white led like CSO and what recommendations we could make for them to work with BIPOC led organizations such as the ADMHA. Miss Ferreira. Yeah, I guess for me, the thing is, is I keep on thinking about it in terms of like our recommendations from part eight, which was right that we reduce the police. And that obviously we keep reducing them, you know, only to us, you know, really small portion, which is more like a violent crime situations. And even who knows, right, even as things move forward, if they could even be a replacement for, you know, how those are handled and things like that. Right. So I keep that in mind, but we're on a trajectory and we know that those types of things are going to take time and obviously the group that's going to come in after us they're going to have to be the ones kind of tackle some of that, as well as the I just want to have to, you know, tackle some of it too right in terms of long term and long term reform and things like that. However, I think it would be important for us to like what, you know, Alicia was saying to kind of include some language in our recommendations around a lot of this, you know, any of these things, whatever we have readily available. And I was saying we go and do research and this and that because I know we're all kind of petering out in terms of like, you know, just being, you know, stressed and dealing with so much right. So I'm not saying that but I think it will be important to kind of put that in because you know I hear your miss Pat in terms of the hiring practices and racial diversity. What I understand in terms of why it is that even if you diversify the police, it really comes down to wearing blue right you're blue and it's not, it's not anything about diversity because we've seen that a lot of times when the killings happened or the harassment happened, it's people from diverse backgrounds, I mean police from diverse backgrounds that are doing it to you know, even the killings and things like that. Nationally, right. So we understand that once a uniform is on, then that kind of goes up the window so it's like how do we change, you know, obviously the group of policing, while we still have police officers. I think we do need to kind of think about that and maybe just think about it and just state it and write it in our, in our report right in terms of recommendations. And then say that you know while we have police, it would be important to, you know, still have some, some hiring practices that are fair hiring practices that are inclusive. Knowing that, obviously, you have to deal with the rule of policing and the fact that policing has been about criminalizing about punitive about giving consequences, things like that. And that's why right we're talking about reforming and making change because that's been the inception the inception has been to, you know, criminalize and especially, you know, obviously, you know people of color and BIPOC communities and things like that. So, so that's, you know, my vision about it, I know that we don't have the bandwidth, obviously to kind of tackle all of these individually but I think we need to kind of mention it with with the wherewithal and the wisdom that we have amongst us right to kind of, you know, mention it and make sure we're including some information relevant to it. Thank you, Miss Ferreira. Miss Pat. Thank you, Deborah. Really well said, just to be clear, I'm in support, I'm all for recruiting recruiting more BIPOC police officers. I'm all for that. What I'm saying is that we don't have enough time to have a subcommittee, you know, to do additional research. We all know what we're going to be recommended. Absolutely, we will, you know, we would love to have more BIPOC police officers. There's no argument about that. The, the issue is, you know, what Deborah, you know, has, you know, said, and we need to find a way to put it in our report, but I'm not, I'm not against, you know, hiring diverse police officers. I just want to make that clear. Thank you, Miss Pat. So if that's what everyone is in agreement with that, we won't make subgroups to go over these last four things that we will find ways or language to explain them or go over them and what, with what information we do have about them in our report. However, we will not create subgroups to go over these or do any further research into these topics. And so, because of that, I think I can, I can meet with Rhianna and we can redo the schedule that we had and I know that would be depending on whether or not we decide to meet every single week, moving forward or not. But once we make that decision, I think Rhianna and I can come back together and redo the timeline so that we do have a more concise idea of what we'll be discussing at every meeting. Ms. Ferrara. So I guess I do have a question. In terms of the timeline that Brianna that you did put together, you, you had said that you, you had this timeline put together. But that since, you know, we're talking about ending by November 1, that then this timeline wouldn't be applicable. I guess I'm still kind of having, you know, maybe I didn't, you know, missed a lot more than just the last meeting in terms of conversations, but I'm kind of like, so was there any conversation saying that we were going to go beyond November 1? I guess I'm missing something. Why, why is everyone saying beyond November 1? I guess I don't get it because last time when I was here, it was November 1. I asked Paul Walkerman, you know, straight up to his face at previous meetings, would you extend this beyond November 1? He said no. So now I guess I'm confused. Why are we talking about mid-November, after November 1? What's going on? Yes. So I apologize, Ms. Ferrara. Brianna and I met with Mr. Bachleman and at that meeting we asked, we were asking about a day for our presentation to the town council. So what states would be available? And he said, I'm sorry, I'm trying to pull up the email because he reached out to us that the council president is in favor of us making our presentation at any meeting in November and that they don't see a problem with that. So at their next agenda setting, they will come up with date options for us to consider for our final presentation. And just, we don't have a date set as to when we will bring this information to the council. And that date, we haven't been given proposed options for that either at this point. So it's a possibility that our presentation date might be in November. Ms. Ferrara. So I guess, so does that mean then we disband on the first, but then we just make a presentation of it? I guess that's what I'm not clear about. So what does that mean? That means we're still CSWG until we make the presentation? I mean, do we keep meeting until we make the presentation? You see what I'm saying? I mean, what, did you guys, did you all get clarity from Mr. Bachleman around all of that too? I don't believe so. Brianna, correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think to ask that actually. And I think that's actually a very good question. So that is something I can follow up with Mr. Bachleman if you would like. But if we are deciding as a group that we do not want to go past November 1, we can also go back and ask for end of October presentation dates, if that's something more favorable for the group. Well, I guess for me, it's like, you know, again, I was working out of the fact that, that, you know, he had said we had until November 1, and he said it was a hard deadline and that's that, you know. And now he's introducing that the council saying November, whatever, you know, me, my thing, again, I'm still sticking with November 1, because I don't want to be this loose kind of, you know, group or whatever that now, you know, we're doing, we had said it was until November 1, but now we're going to present it to council. No, I mean, I'm not for that. But again, I'm willing to do what the group decides though too, you know, if you all want to do more and things like that and being this kind of, you know, grey area. Then we need to discuss that, you know, but for me, I'm like, okay, first is when we were given the, you know, the extension to I would rather have, you know, a date that we're working from as opposed to being because if not then we're not taking seriously to that group for me. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, you know, I feel like we're getting pushed around, you know. So, you know, we need to make a decision as a group and really kind of stick with it, as opposed to letting the town and whomever else just say, well, no, okay, no, you guys, you all can do this and you all can. That's not how I work, you know. Thank you, Ms. Farera, Ms. Pat and then Ms. Owen. So, I'm a very scheduled woman. And I always like to, to leave time for, you know, last minute or in my dances comes up and in our last meeting Deborah I'm sorry you were in there. A couple weeks ago, I had proposed that we wrap everything up by middle of October, even though we still would have a couple more weeks left just to play by it. In case the time and again have feedback for us if we submit, wrap everything up, and then maybe use the very last meeting, our meeting to just relax reflect. And also, I talked about maybe giving the town gift of book a book of, you know, put everything together, discuss it if it's something that the group is interested in doing that we can put in the libraries for future future generation 100 years to come and you know to sit, you know what this group was able to put together. So, I am all I'm in favor of, like we need to decide and not let town council, you know, push us around. We want to end this by November 1. If their schedule is very tight, we understand that we can just hand the report over to the town manager period we're done. If people want to read our report, they can look it at the website or we can email to people if people are interested but ideally, it would be nice for us to present, you know, to present it to the town council but it didn't have time for us in November and in October, we're done, November 1, we're done. Thank you, Miss Pat. So, as a group, would you all like for us to respond to Mr Backelman asking for a presentation date at the end of October. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so I can do that and bring that to you all at the next meeting. If I get a response by them. I'm looking at the council schedule so their last meeting in October is on the 18th. So they have a meeting October 4 October 18. October 18 will make sense for us. We won't be ready for October 4. We'll be too, too soon because of consultant reports. Okay, thank you, Miss Moisten and Miss Pat. So I can reach out to Mr Backelman and see if it's a possibility that we present at the meeting on the 18th. I would prepare to tell the town manager that if the town council don't have slot for us, that's it for us. Okay. I think we need to stay, you know, stood our stand our grounds. If they don't have time for us on October 18. Here's the report. We're done. Thank you, Miss Pat. And so is, is everyone in agreement with this? Okay, great. So that is how we will move forward in terms of that. And just considering that then our presentation would be hopefully on the 18th Brianna and I can use that to come up with a schedule as well. Okay. And so unless anyone has any other thoughts that they would like to share in regards to the schedule. I would like to move into our next agenda item. I do. Oh, yes. Sorry, Miss Pat. Is it possible for the group for us to meet every other week. So one week will be time for us to research and stuff. Because last week was really a breather for me was very helpful. I was really able to catch up on readings. If we can do every other week moving forward. Just a proposal. Does anyone else have any thoughts in regards to the frequency of our meeting miss Ellen. Miss Pat, can you say that again, I'm sorry, my internet is cutting out every other week, every other week. Okay. Yes, Miss Farera. So I saw like on the schedule that you all were proposing that I guess on the second we're already not meeting. Is that correct. Yeah, so I think of that we were proposing that that's not something we have officially decided as a group. Take another week off because we also did find it very helpful in terms of being able to get things done to have the week off last week. Yeah. But so I guess I guess for me what I would like would be like yeah I think the second would be good to take to take off by guessing the meantime, it would be good to kind of just get that timeline going like the new timeline that you all are going to do. And let's say if we did do a timeline with every other week, what would that look like, you know what I'm saying and whether we'd be able to get everything done that way. And obviously if we can't, then we'd have to do the weekly, you know, I think I would feel better kind of making that decision, like, every other week like for sure. You know, once you get that timeline going. Thank you miss for miss Owen. Another thing that's proposed on this document at the last meeting we talked about moving the meeting from 530 to six I just wanted to make sure if the group was. Sorry, Brianna I think I lost you there for a second I'm not sure if that happened for everybody but I didn't hear the end of what you were saying. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just saying I just wanted to gauge the groups feeling on meeting at six instead of 530 because it was something proposed at the last meeting and I wanted to make sure that worked with everyone schedule. Oh, six until what time. We could do six to eight or six to seven 30 whatever you all want. I think that would be a good time to get around that time. This is good. I'll support that. Six works for me as well. I don't like Deborah's suggestion in that I would hope that we could meet every other week but I think it would be wise to try to put a timeline together and see if that would make sense with what we have left to accomplish before making that decision. I think we are going to meet every other week it might be helpful for it to be from six to eight, but that if we're meeting every week that from six to seven 30 might be a better option. You know, based on experience with our group. It's always a challenge to catch up on readings. I remember there is other documents that the time manager sent to us. I don't know if any of you have read it is also on my list, you know to read as well. So the challenge of weekly is, and I can speak for myself that's not always enough time to catch up on other readings. I just feel like doing every other week, you know, helps to go back and look and say why misread this, you know, I, you know, I go back to this and that. And it also give us time to research and come up with our recommendations and be able to defend our recommendation if we, you know, bring it up. And we'll be doing some work with searching recommendations as well. So I just feel that we have this also, you know, we're also working, except that we're not meeting meeting. Thank you, Miss. Does anybody else have any thoughts or input in regards to our meeting schedule and the frequency of meetings. Mr Vernon Jones. So, if we're presenting on the 18th, the last meeting of which we could find, we'll need to get it to the town council a week ahead of time. So October 7 would be the last meeting. We would have to finalize our report, I think, and if we're meeting every other week. We have three more meetings, September 9 September 23 and October 7. And maybe that's okay if we're doing enough work in between. But I, I'm all for taking the second off and then let's, let's see how far we get on the ninth before we decide. I mean, I'd love to meet every other week. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones, Miss Owen. I think it would be wise if we met on the ninth and Alicia and I can present two schedules one meeting every other week and then one what we could accomplish every week, and then we can assess from there how the group wants to move forward. That sounds good. Sounds good. Thank you miss Owen, Miss Ferrera and then Miss Winston. So the nice though, this is when we're having the public forum at seven o'clock so are we meeting, so we're meeting at 530 and then doing the public forum at seven. That is a good question miss Ferrera. I'm not sure if we've made that decision as a group. And so I think that now would be a good time to make that decision. If anybody else has any input in regards to that miss Pat. I would like to propose that we do the first hour for public forum. I doubt that we have too many people. You know, it's beginning of the school year. It's just like, you know, I don't think we're going to have public forum for the whole two hours. It's just my guess. I mean some people will, but I don't think so we can use the rest of the one hour to do to do this. Like six to seven public forum and then seven to eight CSWG meeting. However, if we have more people show up, that's great. That's what we want. And then we can devote the whole two hours. That will definitely change everything then we might consider meeting weekly, if we didn't have time at all on the night to do some business work. Thank you miss. Miss Owen. I think maybe if we can meet even like 1520 minutes before the public forum starts just to discuss how we want to proceed forward and pick a schedule, whether that's every other week or every week that might be good just in case. Just so we don't have to stay after the public forum to make that decision. Thank you miss Owen. Miss Weston. I have one of my questions concerns, which was if you guys were going to meet before or after the public forum. The other one is though, you know, you guys have the option of scheduling your meetings each week during the current during the meeting that you're at right so during this current meeting we have the ability to schedule the next meeting. So what I'm trying to say is you don't necessarily have to set anything in stone now we can aim for every two weeks and at any time during our meeting decide that we need to have a meeting. You know the following week after the ninth, which would be the 16th because we weren't able to have the meeting. That's just a little FYF. Thank you miss western for. Yeah, I mean I think since we're taking next week off. I think it would be probably good for me at least for an hour before the form because I guess the form is set though right isn't it seven to nine I have seen things go out seven to nine. So I'm thinking at least six to seven like we meet so we can discuss like, you know, pressing like our schedule and any other pressing kind of matters, and then, you know, and then we do the form and then we see what happens with the form, you know, we have a lot of people. Then obviously going to stay on until nine. If not, then we would just be able to leave early as opposed to having to meet afterwards because I know everyone's energy level will be low. So that would be my suggestion. Thank you miss for Mr Vernon Jones. I liked ever suggestion. Let's meet six to seven. And then the forum was already been announced for seven to nine. It has been what what flyer. Thank you miss that I actually so miss Owen. I was just going to say I can send the flyer that I made to the group right now I think it was in last week's packet or the week before maybe. And miss for error. Has it been posted I think that's what like miss Pat was asking because I know. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, because I got the link saying it was happening but I'm saying have we kind of sent it out and put it out there to the community, like Facebook and the press release, all that stuff. Have we done that. No. Are those things you all would like us to follow through with. I'm just emailing me to MS bulletin. I'm the Gazette, and also to MS Indy. So posted for us. Miss moisten as your hand up. Thank you, Mr Vernon Jones miss moisten. And I was going to say there was another. Newspaper that I received that's like a local Amherst newspaper that I didn't that I wasn't aware of. I think it was called the recorder. No, it must not remind that reminder reminder so that might be a good place to send it as well. I don't know. I'm not 100% sure where that newspaper comes from, but I will post it on the town's website tomorrow. Thank you miss moisten. So moving forward, we will we'll take next week off the second, we'll have a meeting on the ninth in which we will meet from six, oh, from six to seven, and then the forum will be from seven to nine. And at that meeting Brianna and I will have a proposed to propose schedules for you all. And we can reach out to the various news outlets in regards to posting the flyer. And I think Brianna if you can also send that to miss moisten so that she can send that to all of us that would be great. And if anybody has anything else they would like to discuss in regards to the scheduling at this point I would like to move to the next agenda item. Which is transparency and access to public data. If it's okay with everyone I would like to combine this agenda item with the following agenda item which was a subgroup check in because we were due to hear from traffic control, which I believe also has also has some feedback in terms of transparency and access to public data. Sorry, just one quick thing before we go into that. In terms of the public forum though, I guess, are we set for that like who's going to be kind of starting it off things like that. Because you know I know I wasn't at the meeting last the last meeting so did you all talk about all those things how things are going to run since we're not meeting next week. Or are we going to do that during the 67. I guess that's some of the questions I have. Thank you Miss for Miss Pat. So Deborah you know that the public forum has to do with the crest implementation. You know that yeah so I'm assuming that Miss moisten will facilitate that public forum is that correct. I mean I guess did you all talk about it I think we don't want to make us. Yeah I guess you know. Why don't Miss moisten bring us to speed because the crest implementation is a different group that our two coaches are part of. You know representing CSWG. So that group decided that one of the public forum will be doing CSWG meeting which is I think is a great idea. So it's not something that CSWG is planning. I'm hoping that's just press implementation group are planning but having it during CSWG meeting did I get that correctly. Yes Miss Pat thank you Miss Ferrara. Well okay so then what does that mean you know class implementation is the one that's doing it so. Yes I guess you know what does that mean what does that look like you know and then what is our role in it. Are we just listeners. Are we commenting. You know throughout the meeting we just did a listen. You know I had heard before that you all also wanted like some organizations I guess we wanted to give feedback. So are we outreaching to those organize the crest implementation outreaching to those organizations to make sure that they're attending the forum. I think those are some of the things that we need to kind of the details so that this public forum can I'm assuming their success. So the goal. So even though I am not part of press implementation program I was the one that raised it in only one of the meetings that I attended, because some community members reach out to me. I wanted to give feedback on crest program, and there was actually a different meeting going on in the community that involved like town councilor, like staff from survival center some community members and some, you know CSWG co chairs. I'm like no no no no we're not doing this that's already, you know, town crest implementation group. That's the way the resident organizations can give feedback to this group. That's how it came about. That's how it came about so the goal I'm hoping is is for resident and organizations to give feedback to this group to press implementation group, I think that's my understanding of the public forum is that correct. Yes, thank you miss cat that's that is also my, my understanding of the public forum I don't know if we actually decided the exact structure of what it would look like at last meeting. But that we want to have continuous feedback from the community in regards to the press implementation and since our meetings are not live and recorded some people in the community feel as though they haven't been able to be. Share or voice their concerns or what they would like to see happening and they don't they can't see what is actually happening. So we wanted to provide an opportunity so that we can get feedback from the community and hear what the concerns are, or what people are really looking like to happen. I don't know if we said, who is going to be facilitating that I don't know if we have specific questions that we were asking or if we were sort of looking for the community to guide us and whatever it is that they were that they were noticing or whatever was sticking out for them. Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, so for me, I think those are some of the questions that I have, you know, and I got some clarity now that it is the question implementation so I guess that's the group that's going to be kind of, you know, sharing information and leading it, I guess, you know, I just want to make sure I know what my responsibilities are during that time, you know, is it a no taker is it, you know, helping, you know, listening in and things like that. But the other thing though when I heard you talk, Alicia is just in terms of like making sure that someone from the press implementation, then talks about where things are at kind of gives a summary of what's been done to this point, and things like that, because I think, yeah, you want to get the feedback but but you want to make sure you let them know what's been done up until this point because I think they're thinking, you know, communities feel like they've been in the dark. So okay, so they've been in the dark so that means they want to know, okay, what's been done, you know, maybe even having a short little PowerPoint maybe to kind of showcase what's been done, or whatever. Thus far and what might be the plans moving forward like a little five minute 10 minute thing to kind of kick that off, and then opening it up to questions and feedback and concerns and, and things like that and you know and maybe even have having and I don't know if you have thought about that but having a way for the community members to keep sharing their information. And, and I think we've learned from the other, the other form we had not everyone has access to zoom and internet and so on so forth so is this cross implementation team, going out there and outreaching do they have ambassadors, they have folks that are reaching to communities that can't speak the language that are marginalized and stuff like that right because we know that this public form, it can be the one and you know, so, so this is the only, you know, the beginning portion of it but, but you all have to think of, you know, kind of like the ongoing feedback to so I think that you want to think about that before the nice before the public form and have some of those answers already set in the presentation like okay, we're having this we want to get your feedback but we understand that obviously a lot of the folks that we're trying to outreach to which other marginalized communities might not even be on this. So, so we've created this other way to get that feedback and you know we have interpreters or we have outreach people, you know, I think you all want to think about all the best stuff because if not it'll look kind of weird. Public forum time. Thank you miss for. I think, yes, that's very helpful and those are important questions. I think that is something to consider because I, I do think it would be important for us to do some type of presentation in the beginning to bring the community up to speed however I didn't think about if they had questions if it would be an interactive setting. Generally when I think of forums I think of them as times for me to listen. But I don't know so I don't know if we envisioned it being something interactive where people would ask us questions and we would just answer in the meeting so I think you're right that those are some things we would probably have to talk about Mr Vernon Jones. Yeah, I think there's just some really great suggestions and questions. Can we ask the implementation team to, to take it from here and go on and talk about traffic tonight. Mr Vernon Jones. Oh, I'm not muted. So, I'm miss for air I just wanted to follow up. Originally, we were trying to do like we were trying to do a set a series of forums that were continuous and some in the public. But I'm a little more concerned and I know that the Board of Health is very concerned about the Delta variant and the numbers increasing so we have to reevaluate the way that that would look. And I specifically was thinking of us going to the different communities in different ways to of reaching out like literally on foot. With announcements and you know saying we'll be here at this time, but the Delta variant is probably going to change that and so we do need to reconsider how we are going to get that message to those who won't be able to attend via zoom for multiple reasons right not just because they don't have access but but if they're just not available on that day of the ninth so. Thank you miss Royston. Um, yes, and so I also am in agreement with Mr Vernon Jones if that's okay I think Deborah. Thank you so much for raising those questions and concerns, and that we can bring those back to the implementation team, which will be meeting next Thursday, and try to iron all of those things out and then we can bring it to you all just before the forum. Okay, and so unless I need to go unless I need to go. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I heard. Is my computer echoing for you all. No, no. So bear with me because I hear myself echoing on my computer and it's a little bit strange but I would like to move into the next also if we have the subcommittee who is working on traffic control. Um, if they have the opportunity at this time to bring to us what they've been working on also in regards to data and transparency. But that will be myself and Brianna Brianna do you mind presenting and I can add on. Yeah, yeah, of course. Miss moist and would we be able to pull up the recommend the traffic control alternatives draft that Miss Pat and I put together. Sorry, I'm looking now to see if I have it where it is. Actually, I can just screen share if that's okay. Yeah. Can you all see my screen. Yes. So Miss Pat and I started researching traffic control alternatives and we sort of use this document to guide our thinking as to what components we considered when reimagining community safety, what we're envisioning for Amherst and some recommendations we came up with off the bat after reading some articles on traffic control alternatives. One of the components we considered when reimagining public safety, where our arm traffic control monitors, and how often traffic stops get violent and Amherst would traffic control include pedestrian and cycle of safety and Amherst, how can we incorporate that into public safety. How can traffic stops be reported transparently to the community on a monthly basis. We thought about creating a fund and supporting local mechanics to help fix minor vehicle defects rather than charging drivers through ticketing finding ways to ensure that history is not going to repeat itself. So Miss Pat I don't know if you wanted to talk a little bit more about the committee in 2004. I referenced that quickly at the beginning of our meeting, but in 2004, a BIPOC parent, Jacqueline Hazard was a town meeting member. And so she started a petition to have the APD start collecting a recording racial traffic stops. The town meeting approved it and send it to select board, they created a committee called the traffic stop. Just to create a form. I remember attending most of the meetings because my friend Jacqueline asked me to attend, and it was a complete waste of time and intimidating because you know you had the police officers there and, you know, the chief, not the chief one, but anyway, long story short, two years of waste of time, and the APD never implemented the tracking stop form. And when we formed last year, I specifically asked if the APD are tracking when they stop people they don't have such record. So we just hope that this document that we work on is not just another check off box, you know, done. Go ahead, Brianna. Oh, I see Mr. Vernon Jones you have your hand up. Oh, I can't hear you I think you're muted. I think what happened back in 2004 was really awful. We asked the, but sometime later the APD did start collecting racial data because when we asked for it. We got at least 10 years worth of racial data, and we put it in our report and showed that there are racial disproportionalities in our first report. We are collecting data on every stop that includes race I don't know the details of how they're picking race or what the form looks like, but they have been collecting racial data and they have some. And I think we probably want to find out a little more about how they're doing it and then make sure that our recommendations, move it in the right direction. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Miss Pat. Just for the record, in this meeting, when the chief came to our meeting, especially as that question, and he said that he did not know about that group, and he was not aware of the form that was created. So this is what I'm reference referencing. It's great that they're collecting it I'll be curious to see the form that they use because I do frequent the town website, a lot. And I have not been able to pull that form that they use to create the 10, 10 year traffic stops. I'm not able to get that from if anybody have it please send it along to me. Thank you, Miss Pat, Miss Moisten. Just for clarity, you're asking about the, the racial makeup of the driver when they are stopped, correct. Is that what you're talking about? Yes. Yes. And so the last that I knew was that you couldn't ask the individual to identify which race that they were and that the police officers were doing their best to make a guess or assumption on what the race was. Thank you, Miss Meisten. People ask for a racial thing all the time. Why not? Why wouldn't they do that? Let me just answer that. So yeah, Miss Moisten is correct. I mean, in terms of laws and stuff like that, you can't ask someone what their race is. You know, if you do that, that can be interpreted as discriminatory. So people can volunteer their race and things like that. If not, what you have to do is an informed guess. But the thing is, though, is that that because I saw the forms that you all, you know, put together the draft forms that you all put together. So I think that that's the thing. The thing is, what is the police using? Are they, you know, capturing that information because I'm sure some people when they, you know, get arrested, get stopped, get whatever. They'll mention stuff, you know, you know, so when they mentioned their race, when they mentioned their gender or age or whatever. Are they grabbing that information? Are they putting them on? But it is correct. You can't outright ask someone, so what's your race and stuff like that, because that will feel intimidating. That will feel like, you know, you're trying to, you know, what do you want to use that for? That's a private thing, right? Some people don't want to identify themselves and stuff like that. They can't do that. That's inventory and can be interpreted as racist and stuff. So, but they are supposed to be capturing it in terms of making the best guess decision or, you know, if they have forms asking people, you know, voluntarily, if people want to voluntarily, you know, in terms of like terms that they have and they put it on there, like, you see, there's a lot of forms that we kind of fill out, like at doctors offices and stuff, and they'll say what your race is, and it's always optional, right? You can put it or you don't have to put it. So you can find ways to do it in a way without asking outright. You can't ask outright because that would be intimidating. It could feel like you're trying to force someone to say what race they are, you know, and you can't do that. But anyway, so that's the kind of long-winded explanation to, we do need to grab that information, but there's different ways to do it. Thank you, Ms. Farera. I think Ms. Bowman has her hand up and then Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Walker. I was actually just going to say the same thing, similar to what Ms. Farera said. Like they can ask, but, you know, they can be refused. People can refuse to answer, and it's already hostile. I'm talking. I'm literally talking right now. No, no, absolutely not. I think that in the situation where it's like, sorry, clearly you see why I haven't been around for a little bit. I'm ready for them to go back to school, even though I'm like so scared about this Delta variant. So basically, like, I think that because it's a hostile situation because being pulled over regardless of what, like, unless they're pulling you over to tell you that they need to escort you somewhere because somebody's heard or whatever, which is still kind of a strenuous situation. Anytime you're interacting with the police, it's strenuous. It's hostile. It makes people uncomfortable. It makes, you know, and so to then on top of it, having to be like, oh yeah, by the way, what's the race like. I don't think very many people are going to answer that question at that point. I think that trying to get the, like, I don't think it's realistic to try to get the answer from the person they're interacting with, but I do think that it should be, they should be making the most, most effort I guess on their point to be, you know, identifying it and it being known that this is to the best of my ability type thing. But yeah, I think that I don't think that that's a real, I don't think that's a realistic expectation because I just feel like on my end I wouldn't want I I wouldn't necessarily give an answer to that. So, that's a lot. Thank you, Miss Bowman. Mr Vernon Jones and then Miss Walker. Yeah. Let me just say to Sheena it's nice to have you back with us. Thank you. I know you're hungry you're always. Mr Vernon Jones said you have another comment you wanted to make or is it. I did not to make it now. Okay. Miss Walker, did you want to chime in. I was going to say basically I was going to say something along the lines of what Miss Bowman said in that it's problematic because like racial profiling and racism is so intertwined and police in policing and specifically in traffic stops that like even for myself if I was pulled over and a police officer wanted to know what my race was that it's, yeah, that doesn't feel great I wouldn't want to answer that and I'd want to know why and I think it's hard to like you can't say well because we're collecting data to make it transparent for the public like I don't think that that translates very well and that many people would want to do that. I also think it's very problematic to allow officers to make a reasonable guess as to what them ones race is I think that's. It's more problematic than just asking people and letting them decline, because that just is extreme bias for somebody to guess what your race is just by looking at you. But I do think that if you were we were to follow through with something like when somebody gets pulled over they are presented with the note there the document saying what their rights are presented with the document, the CAD document showing the reason why they were pulled but if on that sheet that was given to them, or if they had to sign off that they received it that there would be a place where they could indicate what their race was if they wanted to. But that I don't there's like no way to make that a mandatory thing I don't think. And so I just fear for accuracy in the data. Thank you miss Walker miss Pat. That's very quickly just to be clear in 2004 through 2006 this discussion was for the officers to make the best judgment. It's what I recall with with most of the meetings that I came that that's all I want to say. Thank you miss Pat. Miss moiston. I know that they do, but I just know firsthand that some people who are darker skin have been or dark skinned have been considered what like, I think we would have to question the accuracy of that data like you just, you can't use that data the same way so it's different when they're arrested versus different when they're when, when people are being pulled over right so I believe when they're arrested that the individual has to fill out a form and that information is on that form for them to fill out, but it's different when you're being pulled over. Thank you miss moiston. Miss Walker. I wanted to add another thing just because what miss Watson is saying so like when you go to the courthouse or into the police station and you're actually arrested or actually have a court hearing you fill out the documents yourself and you have to indicate your race, but there are very few options, and there's more than one. And so I think also making suggestions to changing that might be helpful I don't know if it would make the data more accurate but I also never know what to choose because I'm multi racial and they only have four options there, or what somebody would choose if their option wasn't even available on the paper and you still have to pick one. So I think making a recommendation in regards to how the paperwork actually is might be helpful. Thank you miss Walker miss Pat. Just very quickly I don't want us to lose. Mr Ross, before he leaves at 750 at 750. He has some links that he sent to us, I did look at them. If he will have a chance at least to, you know, for us to discuss it, but just for us to be mindful, we're about 7pm right now. Mr Vernon Jones did you want to talk about the articles that you sent to the group and then we can sort of talk about what miss Pat and I put together for what we envision for traffic control recommendations. I can actually stay till 725 but let me just say this. First there was this, this video of this black woman who worked as a consultant with one of the California police departments and got the department, I think to agree that they were going to only make highly prioritized stops that were based on some evidence some intelligence some reason to think a crime had been committed and not make stops on minor things like not signaling a turn or a dangling deodorizer, you know, whatever. And what they did was they, the form that officers complete when they make a stop they simply added a checkbox to it and said was this stop intelligence led or intelligence driven. And by intelligence they meant was there some evidence that there was, you know, there was a reason to stop this person. And in one year that made a 40% reduction in the total number of police stops. I'm like, I don't know whether it would have anywhere near that big an impact in Amherst but anything that cuts stops down that much seem like, you know, that's something we sure as heck want to consider. And then the other things that I said were two different, maybe three different municipalities and the state of Virginia have all directed their police departments to stop making low level stops at all. In other words, not to criminalize equipment issues. You know, so the police are focused on, you know, drunken driving speeding and clearly criminal activity. And the every district that every department that's done it has done it for a reason to reduce the racial disparity of stops. And apparently it's, it's having a big effect some places the police chief has has endorsed it and made the directive themselves other places the police have fought it all the way. Now councils and mayors and you know whatever have have made this directive. And I think, you know, I mean I would, I would love for us to eventually get all traffic stops out of the hands of police but at least for the next year, probably more. I think police are still going to be making traffic stops and if we can get them to stop making, you know, low so called low level stops and not see those as criminal activities but see those as things that get picked up and people's annual inspection or, you know, whatever else needs to happen. I think you can make a big difference in the number of stops. Thank you Mr Vernon Jones miss Pat. Mr Ross, thank you for sharing those links I watched that video three times actually and I let my family members watch it I forwarded it to them, what a brilliant idea for that particular city to do that. I think definitely we should adopt that. Also the low level traffic stops, you know, left for me alone, it should be completely, you know, they should be stopping people because they, you know, they think that is, you know, the headlight or something like that. I also it is very personal because I'm an employer. And in some jobs you have to put people's core quality check. And that what I see in some of them and I wouldn't be able to hire them is like what I call poverty. Related starts. Somebody did not pay insurance and they were driving or they have the wrong plate. Obviously because they didn't have the money to pay for it, and it goes to the to their records. And that really bothers me a lot. Because if they have the money they would have, you know, taking care of it. So we need to look at how to financially help people who, you know, violate. You know, nonviolent traffic offenses, and not like punish them and they have like permanent record. It's not good. I'm not allowed to hire them. And it's affecting, you know, a lot of, you know, BIPOC community. So I felt the need to speak out tonight about that. And thank you for sharing that again Mr Ross. I think we should get rid of low level. The people, people say record, it impacts their employment. It's not fair at all. That's all I want to say. Thank you miss Pat and thank you Mr Vernon Jones. I want to add to that too I think that with our recommendations on traffic control. I think in the report we should make it kind of two pronged because after I did the reading on reimagining public safety in an ideal that would want traffic control to not be handled by the police department. But I think in the right now something like what Russ had suggested should be our recommendation but I think the end goal should be for a traffic control department to be under Cress. And I wanted to hear the group's thoughts around that. Miss Freira. Yeah, I mean you already know my feelings on it. After doing a lot of the reading, you know, obviously had a lot of, you know, great alternatives. You know, and, and, and yeah, I mean I think for the time being. Yeah, we need to kind of make sure okay what can the police do, which for me, it really needs to be just, just that that that needs to kind of violence things that are dealing with anything that they have reason to think that there might be some, some type of, you know, violation that's threatening right so someone speeding at a really high speed and things like that. Yes, you know, but sort of that, you know, the type of like equipment kind of issue, or you know, all the other foolishness that they start people for know, you know what I'm saying so we need to kind of really be clear, and our recommendations and regards to it, and we do we do need to make sure that there's more so a patrol, like a patrol or monitoring group patrol because we use patrol to be like the police, but monitoring group to kind of deal with traffic violations and that should be taken away from the police police should not have to deal with traffic violations, and to have other ways to kind of deal with, you know, pedestrian and cyclist safety I think it should be part of it to when we're thinking about the whole thing. You know, in terms of our, you know, when we're doing the reading I know it came up like even decreasing the speed because I know, you know, a lot of drivers, you know, even myself included right when you see the speed limit it's kind of like, Oh, okay that's what I need to go. You might go a little bit more than that but you're still staying there so just by decreasing it you know in a place that would normally be 40 but you decreased it to like, you know, 30 and someone goes 35 is so safe. You see what I'm saying I mean so those types of things that are psychological, and that would help you know to kind of decrease and decrease some of the issues, I think we need to do and some of the changes to the road. And, you know, obviously, you know giving more control to the community, in terms of some of these decisions to around traffic and pedestrian like you know and I don't know what that might look like like an advisory board or maybe adding it to the oversight board. I mean, these are some of the things that you know I was thinking about and then obviously I like what you all had there about, you know, if if someone is given some type of citation, it would be to go towards. You know, I don't know about a nonprofit group but maybe like to a group in town, right so the town needs money for like different things that your community like social service oriented organizations right that helping youth, maybe to our cultural BIPOC cultural center you know I'm saying they would give money to that, or they would volunteer. So I liked what you all kind of, but that would be my change my change would be that they would give money back to Amherst to you know to you know programs that deal with like young people and you know elder services things like that, you know, and then having the mechanics like having a cadre of mechanics hopefully with a lot of BIPOC BIPOC mechanics. So I liked all of those kind of alternatives. The thing that I did want to talk about is I saw about the cameras and use the surveillance because I know there's pros and cons around that. So I think but I think we should have a discussion around that because I think this is the thing you know traffic violations going to be very controversial. That's probably going to be one of the most controversial pieces of our recommendations. That's going to be a fight on our hands. So I am saying why I'm talking about cameras is that you know we might need to put some things in place though too, because people are going to want to know that they, they're going to want to feel safe right if we say no more police doing it, what are we replacing that will also have them be safe. So, so those are the things, and I think that obviously, you know we need to really think through this very very carefully, because that's going to be this is going to be a big part of our recommendations. Thank you miss for Mr Vernon Jones and then miss Pat. Well, beyond an elation correct me if I'm wrong but I think the police chief told us that the traffic cameras are illegal in Massachusetts. He did say that because of facial recognition, or facial recognition. Because of that we couldn't use cameras for traffic control because of a Massachusetts state law about facial recognition I think it was. Yeah, I was just, I was just going to say that, but, but Rihanna myself, and I we decided that we will not include surveillance camera because of, you know, the controversies around them and it might be a way to track certain people so we didn't even put it in our report so it's good to know that they, you know the state, you know, it's against the law so that's a good thing. So, so I guess I want to ask something what are those little cameras that they have all over the place so what are those useful. The minute that police vehicles. No, no, no, I'm like at like different, you know, like when you see it at different kind of. Like little cameras at different spots. And I think they're saying that they're looking at I don't know, I don't know what they're looking at but I see little cameras kind of station at different places around Amherst. And what are those for that should be removed. We can recommend that this moistened you know. I don't know I just, I just know that there's like some that are on buildings in random places that are here. Yeah, that's an area and but I do know that there are some on lights but I know that it's not like New York like I just know, like I ran a light in New York and then the next thing I knew I got a photo of like literally every detailed inch over why the red light was changing and I moved through. And that caught it to that degree. I have another friend who was speeding and I'm like a school zone area you know after school hours but she wasn't paying attention, and she too got a ticket right so that's not I mean I think it's something to look into because there are cameras somewhere around in the downtown area and over the light thing so it's something to, you know, get to the bottom of that's not that's not good. That's not good. I like it. Well, I also want to say yeah I seen him on the like it. But it is controversial because I remember them speaking about it some in regards when the select board was here about having traffic control and cameras and so it was very controversial during that time when we spoke about it but also, you know, and plenty of these your parking enforcement who are unarmed officers do traffic control like that, you know. And then I just had a question I think we should explore a little bit more about how the money can go back to the community because other than the parking tickets like I mean and this is because you know I lived a different life when I was a lawyer to working for the town and in one of those cases where I don't have insurance you're going to court so those fees go to the court, and I don't know how we get them moved from the court back to the municipality, right, that's. That was a lot of information about me and I just. If people can email us, you know, some of your suggestions so that we can update our report. This is all very helpful for us. Definitely miss Walker I see your hand is up and thank you miss moist and also. I yeah I'm sorry I completely lost my train of thought so I will have to raise my hand again in a minute, but thank you miss someone. Brandon, continue. So what some of the things that me and miss Pat put together that we envision for Amherst is, again, moving traffic control and putting it under the Department of Cres having a PD no longer perform traffic control to reduce the contact with BIPOC BIPOC motorists, eliminating issuing tickets to drivers to reduce financial burden and unnecessary arrest warrants relating to traffic violations. So I think that being a fun to help residents repair minor vehicle defects. I don't know if we wanted to have a conversation on this because I do know Russ you brought up the possibility of putting a halt to low level stops. Miss Walker. Hi yeah sorry I remembered that helped me remember what I was going to say so in terms of ticketing. Like I do like the idea that if we're going to take it that we would have it go back to the community rather than the court system or the police or the police or you know, however, I think it's a little bit contradictory to say that we are ticketing for poverty level, level things and then give people tickets for them, because if they if it's a monetary issue, and what is giving a ticket do one and then would that ticket be like they have to pay it or what. It's going to volunteer work. It's going to take a lot of time. Like I think we need to keep into consideration that things that are difficult for people are difficult. Regardless and so how we would make those things and still not lead to like the criminalization of their activities or of their poverty or of their unavailability. What is the problem with volunteering if people cannot afford to pay the ticket. Well, I don't know if it would be like I just think about myself if I were required to do volunteer work for being pulled over like I have absolutely no time in my schedule and that would really like I'd have to take time off of work to volunteer which means I lose money. And so like that could be really hurtful to somebody who is living paycheck to paycheck or who is having monetary issues. Thank you miss Walker. Yeah, I mean I think miss Walker is that for me anyway what I'm envisioning is only for right now, you know what I'm saying I mean I don't think it would be something long term because I think we need to have kind of like almost like a two tier of our people we have traffic out of you and, you know, I mean you can be out of a PD and stuff like that, then we're doing, you know, these certain things. And so it's since it'll continue to take it right for the for the time being or whatever. These would be what we would do with it either you volunteer if you can't pay for it, or you you do a citation which we would figure out would probably be Lord and what they've been charging people which is an online right. So it's something to just kind of, you know, obviously showcase that you were speeding or you were doing whatever. And that would come back to the community in the meantime, as opposed to what's happening now which like, we don't even know where does that money go to does it go to the court does it go to whatever it's not going back into the community to really to the folks and the organizations that need it. So for me that's what I would envision but it wouldn't be anything that we would be recommending long term. So very quickly I know we're running out of time. You know, Alicia, you know, thank you for raising that I've thought about that. I guess my question to the group is, what will be the accountability of somebody who can't afford to pay for citation, and they don't have time to do volunteer work. How do we address I mean do we want to recommend fundraising, have money set aside for people who absolutely cannot pay for citation. And, you know, if they live, if they miss work, they don't get paid, you know, you know, can we, you know, can we recommend establishing funds that can be drawn from there, why you know I had a solutions to this, I'm sure they're around. So, and actually, I wasn't even thinking about it like in, I'm thinking about it more in terms of what the infraction is. So I'm thinking if you're getting pulled over for tail light you could get a ticket for that. I'm thinking that we're not giving out tickets for tail lights, because you know, how am I supposed to know that my back tail light is out I'm not back there. Right, I'm in the front so I'm assuming that we wouldn't be doing things for that I'm thinking that the, the, the things that are people are getting ticketed for are driving without insurance, DUI's. I don't know if you get the same thing for the marijuana like just on expired stickers expired stickers expired licenses, suspended licenses. Those are the things but also those things go through the like you literally have to go to court over those ones. It's not handled here. So the ones that might be handled here might be closer to I don't even think the speeding tickets come through here though. But I was thinking that we kind of have to tear it so if you get pulled over for your tail light, you know, you get advised go here and get your tail light fixed, right and so we're, we have some kind of agreement or working with, you know, a BIPOC mechanic to help the community members out that need help with that you get your tail lights are very are minimal. So it's an easy quick fix. It's the bigger ones that I think need have, I mean, well I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to try and figure out, pull out what it's going to resolve in a ticket and what is not going to resolve in a ticket. Thank you miss moist and miss Bowman. Um, so, um, miss moist and just remind me reminded me of something that I saw when I was watching a tick tock, because you know, that's where we come down to people. Oh my God, I'm not sorry about that. I'm needing dough. I'm coming over for dinner. Yeah, I still have to feed my family. Um, so um, I'm talking no you may not. So this is the thing the guy said he said that there was a place and I got to look it up I got to figure out where the place was but the way they handle on traffic issues and whatnot is that they, because people were like complaining or actually maybe it was just a suggestion but he was saying like, you know how like people who are more wealthy like they get trapped stop for traffic stuff they, they, you know, they might get a $30 ticket and it doesn't matter. And then somebody who's like low income would get a $30, $30 ticket, and that'll really mess that there, we will mess their finances up really bad. And so he was saying that we should do it on a P on a tier. So like, it's just like we figure out a percentage that seems fair. And then it's, oh, it's, it's like, you know, 10% or 5% of your income is your ticket. And to, you know, whatever like, offer you know based off your last year's tax return or something like that. So that way, like, you know, somebody who gets pulled over, who doesn't have the same finances as somebody who you know somebody who gets pulled over and the broke down Honda versus somebody who gets pulled over. And, you know, a Bentley are paying the same percentage of their money towards a ticket and so it actually like they're both actually, you know, gonna kind of feel, feel it the same. I just thought that was an interesting, an interesting way. Another interesting way of going about it because it's usually, you know, the single mom who has a tail light out or the, you know, or the, you know, Con just have, you know, who just is trying to get himself back on his feet who gets pulled over for something stupid because like when he said about like, um, uninsured or on. So I got my car, I got pulled over one time because I was on. I was at a suspended license. I was my insurance my registration have been. They had suspended my registration. So I was driving completely illegally had no idea. And I looked out I got an officer who was like, look, he was like you want me to tow your car back because I was like I just got out of work. I just got paid like I can tell, can I can at least tell my car back I'll take an Uber to work tomorrow and take an Uber to the courthouse first thing in the morning like this man could have or he was like I could arrest you right now. And like, my only saving great like according to him my only saving grace was the fact that I didn't have a record. So what I'm thinking about is like what if I had a record and even though I was like, and I was in a position where I was trying to get back on my feet, and I was trying to do the right thing and then something like that happened like I missed the court date or something. I'm back in the system and I'm not able to get back out like so I'm thinking that we got like that would be like in if we're recommending some like an alternative and not that could be an alternative where it's not hitting somebody in the pocket so hard but also not taking somebody away from their work like I'm with Alicia I can't I can't take a day off for work to do something for someone else. I got a lot of kids and I got. And so I can't. That would be really hard for me and I'm living paycheck to paycheck so any amount you're asking for is probably not going to happen. So I just I don't know it's just something. Another way of thinking about some of those things. Thank you miss well man I really liked what you said about tearing the traffic control so people feel like the same that really really resonated with me especially I just feel like there's a huge income. There's an income gaps and Amherst so I think if all people felt at the same it would make sense, but miss moisten I see your hand up. I just wanted to touch on the fact that just you know brought up a great point like often if you don't have insurance and you're not in or something's wrong with your license they will tell your car and leave you on the side of the street. And the issue is that the tow itself for that one day is like 100 and some odd dollars, and then I'm not 100% what the remaining is but it's something like either 25 to, I think it's about $25 every day after. So like if you just got paid and you paid all your bills and now you don't have any money and then you got to wait another week to get your car out now you're looking at a 200 and something dollar. So that's a lot of fees so all of those things in the way that we move forward with that are important to think about, because that is problematic for lots of folks right there. Miss moisten in regards to creating a fun to help people with that with ARPA funds be able to help with that for this year or. Because people, I mean it ties into, you know, anything that has COVID related and so that is very realistic for someone to be out of work, you know, do due to COVID in 2020 and, or just catching back up right because the bottom line is when you're living in poverty, and your income changes you know that you owe a lot of folks in the meantime, when you're trying to to move forward so it's yeah. It's it's possible. I should speak to Sean about that when you guys have your meeting. When you meet with him next. Pat miss pat you are muted. Before we lose Mr Ross, any, anything you want to say before we lose you. I think there are a lot of details that we're still working on but I'm just so pleased that we seem to have an agreement that we've got this two prong recommendation. One is to dramatically reduce police stops by eliminating the low level ones and two is to recommend a civilian traffic control. Yay team, and sorry but I have to go. We understand thank you so much. Alicia do you have to leave also. No, I don't leave. Oh, maybe. Within 50 more minutes or do you have to leave. I need to leave in like five minutes. Is that anything you want to add. Yes. You will say into just for us to send you all any other feedback right around traffic. Update yeah. So we'll do that we're not meeting until the night's right. So, yeah, I mean I don't have anything else I just wanted to be clear on those things and then I'll just stay on this for this next four minutes minutes and then I'll go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks Walker. Sorry, I'm not sure if you're finished with your presentation yet, but I just wanted to say that the next agenda item was the, the why stipend document that we didn't get to have feedback from Deborah from at the last meeting. So we tabled it to this meeting. And so I'm wondering if we want to table that again for the next meeting because we also lost Mr. Vernon Jones. And that's his document. So I saw the agenda and so you know Deborah last two weeks when it was presented. I didn't we agree on it, but we said we need to table it because you're wearing. No, I'm good with it just so you. Okay, so then we're done. Yeah, I read everything. I wanted to report it back and yeah. Okay, I put the resident oversight board follow up back on the agenda because I didn't know if the group who was involved with that had met with the chief, although he's on vacation. So I was looking for the follow up from what happens with that. Okay. Okay. So it'll come, it'll be on next week's too because, you know, we got to find that out. Okay. So you guys have not met with the chip yet. No, he's on vacation. He should be back I think Monday. I did give him some times that would work the first week of September though. Can you guys give us update on implementation meeting today. We get the money did we get a grant. I don't think we've heard back yet. Okay. I think we'll hear back until September. I think we'll hear about the grant and I think that the implementation team still wants to work with the ADMHA. And I think that for the local community that that would be a great opportunity because they, you know, as an organization to they can really spread. Because they can capture from Greenfield to North Hampton. Oh, and since we didn't meet last week the implementation team did get to meet with Gary Porter did we did we report that to the group. I don't remember it's been. Yeah. Okay, the implementation team met with Gary Porter, and he was nothing short of amazing he was great. I'm really impressed by the ADMHA he talked a lot about implicit and explicit bias training, having a majority BIPOC staff and prioritizing cultural competency in the mental health field and how important that is. And I think what Miss moisten said, regardless of if we get this grant we should find a way to bring them to our community. I think it would be critical. And, and also he wears a lot of belts on him so he's been a police officer. I can't remember all I have to look back at my notes but he's been a police officer a probation officer. It's just, it was a lot of stuff that he's been involved in. So he's, he's understanding right and he's a good person to kind of help with, you know, training, training when it comes to the PTC he kind of already understands the way that they move and operate over there in a total whole of the police department's not. You know who we're talking about. I'm a little bit but not too much, but actually my question before I go just about, has any like position descriptions been created and like when are those going to go out. That sort of thing so that I'm assuming we'll get a heads up on it so we can share it with our folks to like folks that we want to kind of recruit to apply. And the DEI and the Crest Director has that gone out yet. So the Crest Director and the program manager are going through the minute, all the positions right now they have to go through the municipal wage scale right now and that's where they are so you know, they, they took the job descriptions for the director for Crest and for the program manager and put them in our typical HR form Matt, and now they're going through the municipal rating system. So, and the DEI director is and the that assistant director or coordinator whichever they deem that is going through that same process now too. So I'm assuming the program manager is the same thing as the assistant to the Crest Director position. Right, well, if you recall that was through the grant, right, the grant requires that that there was a project manager for us to apply for and so that's where that comes in. All right, folks, I'm going to say good night. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Ms. Farera. Thank you so much. So Brianna, I recommend that we table the form since we're lost to people on our report. Can people hear me? Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, we don't have much. I don't know how much you all have left but we don't have much left on the agenda either so. Okay. I think. Yeah, I think if everyone's in agreement we can table. I don't know if there's anything else important from the Crest implementation that you'd like to bring up. But that we'd probably want to report back after next implementation anyways, a lot of things are just still in the process of being looked at so there weren't any like groundbreaking or new things that happened like new huge events that happened at today's implementation meeting we were just basically discussing discussing options and we are still waiting for a new facilitator for the group. Yep, and I'm going to call it the chair, but we're, Deb Farera would have been a good person because she wasn't there when we talked about if we were somehow going to join with the Amherst fire department and so she wasn't, she wasn't there. And so that would have been a great time to, you know, we should have gotten her feedback on that. And so we're also meeting with Leap the implementation me group is meeting with Leap on September 2nd. So that'll be before the next time that we meet again as well. And so Miss Pat, if you could just repeat that sorry because I was. Okay, so for sure. But for our next agenda items will be to continue presenting the traffic control based on input we got today and hopefully people will be able to give us their input if they can send it to to you by next week Tuesday. And then to get input in terms of consultants what they agreeing to do for us tonight. And input from police chief about the oversight report, you know to see what he says. Yeah, that's one more thing. I forgot. I think the crest implementation follow up something about. Oh, it's the, the Amherst fire department. Yes, collaboration. Yeah. That's like funny. Yeah. So do you guys now understand why we can do some groups anymore, like we can take on new topics. I'm still concerned that the time manager sent us some links to read stuff. I have not read it. I don't know if people have read it, but it will be good for us to read it on our week off. So in, you know, if we find something useful to that we can add it to our recommendation. I'm sure that is the reason why he sent out the link. That's my list to do. I haven't read it yet. Thank you all for your hard work and fellow our coaches working so hard. It was great to see you here today. Thank you. But just call you over here trying to see what you're doing. I want to see what it looks like what's going on over there in the kitchen. Are you making pizza. Making pizza. For dinner. And then the two co chairs. Can you stick around for a minute. I'm going to take us off of record and you guys are welcome to stay if you want, but the meeting is. It's a joke. Okay. Yeah. One of you guys leave the meetings adjourned so I'm good. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. So. Sorry, I'm still needing to go. That's, that's okay. Let me.