 time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, a presentation of the Lawn Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening, this is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope. Mr. William Bradford Huey, editor of the American Mercury, and Mr. Henry Haslett, editor of the Freeman and contributing editor of Newsweek Magazine. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the Honorable Jay Bracken Lee, the governor of Utah. The opinions expressed are necessarily those of the speakers. Mr. Lee, you've established a very fine reputation as an economizer in your own state, but I'd like to begin by asking you tonight whether you think the federal budget could be balanced and balanced now under these conditions. Mr. Haslett, certainly I think the federal budget can be balanced. I not only think it can, but I think it should be and it must be if we're going to save this country. Well, President Truman says that in an emergency you have to have a deficit or that you have to spend very heavily. Now, do you think you have to have these enormous expenditures in the present emergency? Certainly not in the present emergency. I think, of course, there are times in the history of any country and in the lives of an individual when we are compelled at times to spend more than we take in. But certainly we cannot go on operating upon the theory that we are in a continual emergency, an emergency that has lasted about 20 years. In your own state, how did you begin economizing? Where did you begin? Well, I think I began first by reducing the requests of the various departments of state government. And while I did make quite a reduction by vetoes, I think the best reductions that I was able to make were in my own departments where we reduced the number of employees and got the men who remained to do a better job. In other words, I think that by reducing the number of employees of a department, you have a more efficient department. If you have more men than you need, you're going to have somebody loafing. And when you have somebody loafing, that affects everybody in the department. What about corruption, Governor? Have you managed to eliminate men coats from the government machinery in Utah? Almost definitely. I can say this, that in our own state, during the time that I have been in office, we have not had one single scandal of any kind. What kind, what policy do you have to prevent that, to prevent the scandal of your men accepting gifts or that sort of thing, sir? Well, maybe the best way to illustrate that would be to take our liquor commission up until the time I took office and since the time that it has been in existence, I think in about 1934, they had a continual scandal, payoffs and bribery, two grand jury investigations, and an investigation by the legislature every time they were in session. And of course, since that time, or since I took office, we have not had one single scandal. And we have been able to reduce the number of employees in the liquor commission. And while we are selling less liquor today, we are making a greater profit. In fact, we have saved over a million and a half dollars in the three years by having fewer employees. Do you allow your employees to accept gifts from people who sell whiskey to the state? No, we do not. And that was one of the ideas I used in talking to my commissioners. I pointed out that it would not be wrong for a man to go down and have a meal with a liquor salesman. But in taking that meal, that was only one step from taking a gift. The man would then be giving him a bottle of whiskey or a case of whiskey and then money. So I said, don't take that first step by your own meal. And all of my commissioners buy their own meals. I'm sure, Governor, that our viewers would like you to expound just a little bit on your theory of government since it's so unusual now. Well, briefly, my theory of government is very much like the referee of a ball game. And I have attempted from time to time to point out that you have men handling your athletic programs who draw up the rules. I would illustrate that as being the legislature. Then you have the referee who calls the plays, and I would compare that as the executive branch of government. Then, of course, you have an appeal board. I would compare that to our courts. So long as our government has operated according to the rules laid down by the referee, you're going to have a good ball game. The minute the referee gets into that game on one side or the other, you're going to have a bad ball game. Well, Governor, you were telling... I think you made a speech some time ago in which you suggested that the taxing power be put mainly or primarily in the hands of the states. Would you mind telling us something about that proposal of yours? Of course. My theory on government is also this. The closer you keep your government to home, the better off the people are going to be, because then they are going to be able to know how your government operates and keep their eye on it. And when you move your government away from the people, they lose that personal contact that they need. Now, my theory on taxation has been this, that in all of our organizations here in America, we'll say our churches, our lodges, or any other organization, you will find that the local units collect the dues, which of course is equivalent to taxes in government. They in turn are assessed by the home lodge, or that could be comparable to our national government. And I would suggest that we keep the federal government out of the direct taxing field. In other words, we will say that the federal government could no longer collect income taxes. That would abolish all of this collection department of the federal government and save the people a lot of overhead because the states already have tax commissions and that same tax commission could collect the taxes. Then the federal government would set their budget. They would then say to the states as an illustration to Utah on a per capita income basis, Utah owes the federal government $300 million to operate it for the fiscal year 1952. I would then meet with my legislature and I would say here we have to collect so many millions to operate state government. The federal government needs $300 million, therefore we will collect that tax. Now, this would bring the government closer to the people and we would then be in a position to see the fallacy of federal aid. In other words, we would find that we could take care of our old people for less money than we can by letting the federal government collect this money and pay the overhead of returning the money to the state. Then the pressure groups would all descend on the state governments and the state governments would do the deciding. They would decide what kind of taxes to levy. It wouldn't be any of the federal government's business how the taxes were levy. That's right. They would just assess the states. The states would be the collecting agency. That's right. Now for those people who believe in a free government and a government that's close to the people, I think they will agree with me. But to those people who believe in a centralized government or a socialist government, certainly they would disagree. I'm sure, Governor, that our viewers would like to know some of the practical political aspects of this. Now, what groups in your state have fought your economy program most effectively? Well, I think the group that has objected to my program to the greatest degree has been the school teachers. And I want to say that a majority of our school teachers in Utah are fine, loyal American citizens. But like most of our organized groups, I think we have a minority who, in my opinion, are more interested in their own welfare than they are the general welfare. I think it's impossible for a man who believes as I do operating government for all of the people can ever get along with a selfish minority. Well, did you actually cut the educational budget in your state or did you simply prevent it from expanding? Well, I certainly didn't cut it, but I prevented it from expanding to the degree which they wanted it expanded. But actually, the way it has operated, I think our schools are better off in Utah because all of the surplus money that was saved in my vetoes and by reason of economy, went into a building fund that then went into school buildings and into our other institutions. The point where we have constructed more public buildings in three years than we did for the 20 years prior to my administration. You're up for reelection, I believe, Governor. Do you expect a very hard campaign, I assume? Well, I always expect a hard campaign. I don't think there's any such thing as an easy campaign. And do you expect to be re-elected? Well, certainly if I run, I expect to be re-elected. What are the national political observations out there? You're a Republican, of course. Yes. And you have a Republican senator that's up for reelection this year, Senator Watkins, I believe. That's correct. What's the outlook for your Republican ticket there in the state? Well, I think it's very good, providing the Republicans get out and really fight. I think that when they feel that they have a sense that they're very apt to lose the election. I think it can be won, but it's going to be won with a good hard fight. You mean locally or nationally or both, you don't think? Both locally and nationally. You offer your voters a clear choice in Utah, I guess. Your theory of government is certainly not the opposition's theory of government. I think that's right. I think it's probably the direct opposite. And what observations do you have to make on the national scene? Are you supporting a candidate for the Republican nomination? Well, I have favored Senator Taft. And what in general is the sentiment in the Mountain States? Are most of the delegates from the Mountain States for Senator Taft? Well, a great majority of them are. As an illustration, the entire 14 delegates from Salt Lake are from Utah, and are for Taft. And do you expect a Republican victory this year nationally? I do. Well, Governor, I'm sure that our viewers have very much appreciate your views tonight, and thank you for being with us today. Well, thank you very much. The editorial board for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Henry Haslitt. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable J. Bracken Lee, the governor of Utah. I would like to say a good word. And behalf of the father who for the past 10 or 20 years has protested all my own watches. Good enough. But what he really meant was, I'm going to have to make it do. You see what I mean? Now, why shouldn't this be a good year for the whole family to really honor father with Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch? For father on Father's Day, for the graduate, as a memorable anniversary present, a Lawn Jean watch is in truth the world's most honored gift. And throughout the world, no other name on a watch means so much. 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This is Frank Knight, reminding you that Lawn Jean and Wettner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jurors who proudly display this emblem, agency for Lawn Jean Wettner watches. Tune in history with the elections on the CBS television network.