 We get to crush on our queens and get to do everything women and this week's episode of Strength of a Woman, we bring one guest but today we agreed to have two phenomenal women. One is Jane Gashiru who is the lead psychologist and facilitator at Clarity Counseling and Training Center. The other one is Violet Ngina, counselor and marketer at Clarity Counseling and Training Center. You can imagine from the title and you know from hearing just about who they are, it's bound to be a great morning. Karibuni Sana. Thank you for making time. It means a lot. So probably because I have already introduced you, you can probably tell us your name. My name is Violet Ngina and just as you've said, I am a counselor and a marketer at Clarity Training and Counseling Center. Thank you. And I'm Jane Gashiru. Happy to be here. I'm the lead counselor and facilitator at Clarity Counseling and Training Center. So what do you do in Clarity? So you want us to talk about what we do at Clarity as a whole. So Clarity Counseling and Training Center is one counseling center. So that means that we see people for counseling. We offer therapy services. So we do individual counseling. We do couple counseling. We do group counseling. We see families as well. And then also we are training center in the sense that we do corporate training. We offer training even to individuals as well. So that's basically what our work entails. And we also do consultancy for corporates. Wow. It's good to see both of you come together. It's interesting. What I will say is that in our society today, we have so many people who have got issues and they don't know how to deal with the issues. They don't know who to turn to. So sometimes you find that as a woman, you get confused because you're supposed to answer in as a wife, as a mother. You're supposed to be working. And sometimes you find somebody does not understand who they are. They just there, you know, waking up every day in the morning to do the normal things. But at the end of the day, you find this person needs someone to talk to. Someone to share what they are going through in life. So unless they are given this opportunity to speak out what they are feeling, it could be in marriage, it could be at the place of work. You find someone getting up or ending up depressed. That is why we are there, to give them hope and strength and to make them understand that life is good. So why is cancelling important? You know sometimes we are always thinking that do I need to see a cancella? Okay, I'll get through it. You know sometimes we go through things and we're like ah, I don't need to see a cancella. I'll get through it. So probably you can tell us why is it important to have cancelling? Cancelling is very important because at the end of everything, you know, number one, it helps us to function very well as individuals. And you will notice that there is actually a connection even between what people call normal illnesses to psychological issues. I feel like a person's overall health always starts with their psychological and emotional stability. So where there is no mental health, where there is no mental stability, then that means that the person is compromised as a whole. It means that your work is affected. It means that if you're married, your marriage is affected. It means that your relationships do not function well. And that is where cancelling actually comes in. To help people understand what is really happening to an extent that they find themselves struggling the way that they struggle. Whether it's struggling to parent, struggling to date, struggling in a marriage, whether it is struggling even to adjust to work or to even have relationships with your family members as well. So I would say that the importance of cancelling has, or rather cancelling has been undermined. Because its purposes are more than people actually understand. You have something you want to... In short, we will say that cancelling is important because it helps to increase the capability of an individual to know how to navigate through previously challenging situations and environment. That is why we are there. So there is this notion that if you are going to a counselor because you have a problem, when you tell someone I am attending therapy, someone will look at you and say, are you depressed? What can you say about that? I don't know if I should call it a myth, I don't know if I should call it a rumor, but there is that notion, actually let me call it notion, that if today I was to tell a friend that I am seeing a counselor, they would be like, so what will you say about that notion? To me I would say that's a myth. If you are going for cancelling, it could be for emotional intelligence or personal development because most of the time you find people who don't understand who they are. You will find that you are working, you have a good job, you got a good salary, but if somebody asks you who you really are, you cannot explain. So you find somebody thinks that they are comfortable in life, but if you get close to them and talk to them, they have inner problems that are disturbing. So it's not just about when somebody is going through stress, but you could want to develop yourself. Even at your place of work, could be relating with your co-workers, you'll find there is someone who just has a problem talking to colleagues or even socializing. So personal development and the many causes that you are offering is not to the sick. No, no, no. You know that you mentioned that when you go for cancelling, people think that you have problems. Who doesn't have problems, Chris? True, true sorry. And interestingly, if you look around as Violet is saying, there are a lot of people with problems that they don't call problems. What am I talking about? I had you and Val talk about what is it called? What is it called? The school of what? Character development. How many people in this town have gone through that? You talk to a lot of people who are dating, even the people who are married and they have a story and you see behind that story is a pattern. You find that this person has probably had the same relationship the same nature, the same kind of relationship with different people. So who is the common denominator? If you have had, if your relationship or your relationships always turn out the same, who is the common denominator? So what does that tell you about yourself? Oh wow. There is probably something you need to heal. For as long as you are raised in a family born by a human being, when you are likely to have one kind of dysfunction or the other, maybe in how you relate with people, maybe in how you handle your emotions, maybe in terms of how you reason. And therefore, counselling is actually for everybody because when you look at how people behave, there are people who are bleeding all over other people even at work. Very bitter, very angry individuals, they don't want to be told anything, they don't want to be given feedback, they don't want to be told anything, they don't want to be given feedback and especially when it's negative feedback and the reason why is it that they jump like that and they personalize what they are told because lack of emotional intelligence, maybe while they were being brought up they were never taught the right or healthy communication styles to use. And so, really counselling is for everyone. Everyone has something to deal with, something to correct, something to develop about themselves. If I can give an example, lately we saw a lady who committed suicide, it was all over social media. If you'd have looked at her lifestyle, you would think that everything is okay, but deep down inside, there was something that was burning and yet what she lacked is just someone to talk to an understanding of who she really is, because if she really knew who she was, she wouldn't really have gone to that extreme. Once a woman takes charge of her life, you understand that life revolves around you. As long as you've given yourself happiness, then you'll be able to tackle every other problem that comes your way. So in our society right now we have a problem because you don't know who to turn to. Because you're thinking, if I go to a counsellor, people will say that maybe I'm mentally ill or maybe you're suffering from something. Yet it is not true. You see, as clarity, we go out there, not just talking to women, even men, because men also have issues. We talk to children, we talk to schools, we talk to the teachers, we talk to leaders in school and help them to know how to tackle issues and live happily, because problems will always be there with us. So at the point where we are at right now as Africans, a lot of times counselling was done was the nice thing. Do you feel like in Africa it's becoming something that is becoming embraced or something, if you can say that? It's definitely picking up and I think we have COVID-19 to thank for that. In the sense that a lot of people have realized that in the absence of work, in the absence of something that keeps them busy because we are living in a world where people are obsessed with work we go and spend a whole day at work come back at night in short you have no time to think you have no time to get in touch with yourself you have no time to get in touch with what is happening in your life. So in the absence of that busyness people now came to realize that when I have to deal with myself it's actually difficult to deal with myself when I'm left to deal with my marriage or my partner it's actually difficult to do so with my family, my children it's difficult to do so and so people are starting to now embrace cancelling and see it as a way out in terms of understanding themselves and understanding exactly what is going on in their lives and also being able to correct that and being able to adjust and live a more healthy life. So touching on COVID-19 and what you have been sharing about when COVID came we moved a lot of sessions online how has that affected the quality or the quality of the sessions that are being given and what's the approach? Are you planning to move to physical sessions more or that kwa pa po intiakusema online has what to the good thing about the online services like for clarity we already had online services going on so that if an individual is busy maybe you're working and your time or your working hours don't allow you to go for the physical cancelling we already had the online so it was an advantage to us because now despite the fact that COVID-19 affected many people for us we already had the services going on so we are both online and also physically we're still there actually the quality of sessions doesn't change whether it is online or physical because therapy is about a relationship and that relationship can be created whether one is being seen online or in person what I would say has been the advantage in terms of having to use online services is that now we are able to see people even who are outside Kenya Kenyans in the diaspora can now access cancelling services at a fairer rate so to speak because in those countries I understand that therapy is quite expensive and at the same time also I think it has also given people it has opened up people's minds to the fact that as Violet is saying I don't have to struggle to come for a physical or one-on-one session maybe after work or even between lunch hour I could as well do it later on maybe at home in the comfort of my house but I don't have to now think about traveling at night so in regards to that we haven't really changed much what we do is that we give our clients an option whether you want to be seen in person or you want to be seen virtually it's all up to you because we understand that it's the same thing that we are actually offering let me take this a note higher recently you did an awareness campaign I don't know if you should call it a campaign but you did a self awareness campaign do you mind talking about it like everything you can tell us about it alright so self awareness first of all is all about knowing who you are answering the question of who you are knowing what drives you and then also beginning to understand yourself in terms of how you think your emotional emotions and your behavior because these three aspects of self your thoughts, your behavior and your emotions they are very interrelated and then understanding why you function the way you do understanding why you find yourself in certain situations that's what self awareness is about personal development comes as a result of self awareness because then with self awareness you understand what needs to change about you you understand what needs to be worked on and so this self awareness program that we have going on is about helping people to explore themselves and to understand what am I really all about let me latch on to what Violet mentioned this lady that she was quoting this video that we also on social media a lot of people unfortunately in that situation where does self awareness come in in the sense that understanding that ok probably my marriage doesn't make me happy or there is something that is happening in my marriage that is not working for me however my happiness is not dependent on the other person and so what do I do as a person I realize what is bringing me to that place of getting depressed because this marriage involves another person they might change they might not change however my dependence on them to change is dangerous for me because then it means that I am pegging my mental health to change and so when I realize myself that maybe one of the reasons why I am getting depressed is because I have told myself that without this marriage I am nothing that's a thought process I need to correct you see where self awareness comes in that's a thought process that I need to correct if I have told myself that I can only be ok we call that absolutist thinking I can only be ok when this person starts behaving like this you see I am placing a demand on that person and at the end of the day I don't have control over their behavior I can't control whether or not they actually do what I want them to do and so when now this is how self awareness helps you you start to see ah this demand that I am placing on this person is unrealistic and so as a result for me to be ok what I need to do is change this demand have realistic expectations of this person that you know what or what you are doing or not doing I can still be ok because as Jane I have a responsibility over my own emotions over my own thoughts over my own behavior and so basically that's what self awareness is all about seeing yourself for who you are understanding what exactly is the problem in as far as I am concerned and then how do I now work to change these circumstances so that I can be better and not just mental health really because mental health affects your entire life I can function better whether it's at work or it's in the relationships that I have ya true because now you see like if you as an individual will not accept the things that are around you or your environment that is what leads to getting depressed or stressed out like if you look at the society today we have the youth talking about if it's in a relationship and maybe your spouse has told you they don't want you say wuki atwa chika that is just a way of fighting you just want to show people that you ati taki kwa chika kia atwa exactly so ni mtona jijaza tu wuki atwa chika that's not a solution where we talk about the character development self awareness understanding who you are so that you are able to make the right decisions not decisions out of desperation or decisions because you want to please your friends and the surrounding but you understand yourself fully and you know who you are what's the significance of you know doing self awareness because I'm assuming from the explanation and the in depth knowledge you've given about self awareness is that it's not just for specific people everyone for self awareness so what's really the significance of it the benefit of self awareness is that it's like taking a torch and then lighting it into an area that was previously dark what I'm referring to as the dark area is self it's like illuminating illuminating your life for you to see what has been hiding maybe in places that you have not seen that needs to be swept out that needs to be cleaned out it is understanding that this is what pushes me or places me in a difficult situation so what I'm able to get out so the importance of that first of all is for people to be able to one clear their minds one clarity in terms of this is actually what my life is about this is what has been causing me problems number two is to improve how people function let me give an example of stress we don't get our vulnerability to stress is very different some people have a higher vulnerability than other people they are factors within the person that create that higher vulnerability and so my understanding of the factors within me what is it about me that we are able to stress now gives me the pointers in terms of what I need to work on and that's what I'm talking about improving functionality even improving relationships again some people's blind spots everyone has blind spots what we call blind spots is those things about yourself that you don't know I don't know whether Grace there are some things that people have told you about yourself and you're like no that's not me sometimes you could be rude to your friends and when your friend tells you by the grace do you know you're very rude and you're like me rude you just start hating that person for telling you the truth and yet it's a character in you that you need to develop and change for the best that is why we have the conflict resolution how do you handle problems when they come if someone tells you you're rude do you just accept it positively and move on or do you carry it with you and you're like hi where miss you are 21 you see so you realise you look around you and you realise actually the interesting bit is that most people when they come for counselling over 80 85% of the issues that people bring to counselling are relationship based or relationship oriented why because we have a lot of dysfunctional relationships around us in our society relationships we have with parents with our siblings the relationships we have with our friends and so self awareness now helps you to understand as grace who am I in these relationships how do I show up what do people see so that now you begin to understand for example some people might come to realise I am the quiet type and I like to assume that people know how they should treat me and I never give people feedback I never tell them when I am not happy with what they do and so in that sense then I am always finding myself a victim of circumstances but then when I am able to now when I gain this self awareness and I see myself then it means that it is something that I can actually correct you see even when we go to schools and we are talking to the children when you listen to them the problems revolve around their parents so it is relationship again that is bringing a problem a child will not just start misbehaving in school out of nothing either something happened in school or something happened at home so relationship is the key to everything that is happening and also when you look around you realise that really a lot of people are lost most people are living other people's lives why are we living other people's lives because we don't know ourselves in the first place and you find that when faced with the question of who we are most people get terrified why are you terrified because you are searching within yourself and suddenly you realise I have nothing to say and so self awareness now helps us to define ourselves and then because as a result of that to even be able to behave more consistently I don't know whether you have noticed that most people are different people in different situations if I may ask a question if you look at our society today what do people study in life and what do they do you will ask someone the degree and the ground things are different completely like if I can give an example of myself I did education I was a teacher for 20 years then after 20 years I realised that actually teaching is not my thing I don't want to teach so I went into preaching I preached the gospel for a long time then I also came to understand that I so you find everyone in the society you know in a healthy scared manner looking for solutions and you don't know who to turn to until when I did psychology myself that's when I realised that Allah so you need to understand who you are first of all before you start talking about your friend just like even in the Bible state before you remove something in your friend's eye so you will always see yourself as the queen the princess but the other one so we have people who are not able to afford whether it's their self-awareness or the cancelling therapy sessions what's their option what will they do for people who cannot afford therapy and I want to come back to that and talk about that word afford because I think it's a perception that people have that is not quite right but there are people who truly cannot afford probably because they are not parking or something of that sort then there is usually the option of self-help books there is usually the option of listening to maybe psychologists maybe who are on YouTube and getting to pick up a few things here and there but nowadays they are counsellors actually even in public hospitals but I think there is also a perception that people have of counselling that makes them think they cannot afford let me ask you Grace for example when you go to a doctor how much do you pay in terms of consultation 3000 to 5000 3000 to 5000 and then he's going to give you medication from the very same visitor so you might end up spending maybe not less than 10,000 now therapy sessions one therapy session in Kenya let me talk about Nairobi you probably find a range the normal range is between 2 to 3,000 per session for people who are not like let me call it the normal range so if you use the same 10,000 that you have used at the doctors for one visit how many sessions does it take you for? quite a number around 5, minimum 3 and yet this might just be the sessions that you need for you to stop taking to prevent you from getting that BP that is taking you to the doctors in the first place these are the sessions that you might need to now help you to not get depressed in the first place so that you will need to take that medication for the rest of your life so that's why I'm talking about that word afford it's a matter of perception in the sense that because people don't really understand what counseling can do for them then they don't prioritize it and they would rather pay for something that is actually much more expensive than that can be prevented what what informs the number of sessions one can do good question one it is usually dependent on what you are what has brought you there in the first place and then also the individual because we are all different there are some people who will probably just need 3 sessions and they are good to go some people might need 10 10 is dependent on the nature of the issues that you are bringing for help and also who you are how you function as a person some people are able to catch on quickly like maybe when you give them tools that they can use to work to change to improve their lives some people are able to action on this much faster than others are okay let me take you back to clarity counseling center in the year 2016 back then we were known as counseling and human resource solutions we changed that name in the year 2020 to clarity counseling and training center so we've been in existence now this will be our that's 7 years this will be our 7th year now how many questions do you offer other than the self awareness let me allow Violet to talk about we have we have 3 areas of business and that is counseling we have training and we have consultancy so when it comes to we have couples we have individual we have children and also adolescents and when it comes to training we have emotional intelligence we have persona we have character development depending on what an individual would really want to so when it comes to consultancy we have corporate training where we go to banks and we train the whole staff that is there and we also have staff training probably as we come to an end of this interview there are people and they fall in that category who are afraid of counselors because probably you had a bad experience or you know will this person be able to keep what I tell them to themselves so what can you say about the credibility of counseling session especially for those people who've had bad experiences with counselors before the bad I get the reason why most people would be scared because unfortunately in this country we have a lot of people calling themselves counselors who are not trained counselors probably because they did a unit or two units when they were doing a larger cost than they imagined they are counselors and so it's about I think we need to educate the society about who to seek help from go to a professional counselor ask them whether they are registered ask even to see if it's necessary their registration ask them their qualifications as a counselor and it shouldn't be someone who has done a unit in counseling it should be someone who's done counseling psychology that's who a professional counselor is someone who's done a course in counseling psychology because now that's the professional to help you not any other profession maybe where they have just done something in counseling so I think people need to be careful in terms of where they go to it's just the same when you go to a doctor's office a practice if it's a private practice they hang their certificate somewhere on the wall that's to show you the authenticity of what they are doing and so it's about people being vigilant as to where they are going to seek for help so I want to allow both of you to have a final remark so I think I'll start with Violet you'll use this camera ok thank you so much Grace for having us here just like I said my name is Violet Ngina and I'm a counselor I'm a marketer at clarity counseling and training center I would like to urge the women out there to stand out you don't need to stay at home and stick to your stigma or trauma because of what happened to you during childhood you need to stand out and live your life in full because maisha nikuji enjoy na jwa rahaji pati mwenye don't stay at home and look at yourself even if you're a housewife you can still have fun with your children stand who you are talk to us anytime you need to talk to someone we are there to listen to you and give you hope because you are a queen a princess and you can make it in life thank you my message is basically to everybody outside there that counseling is not a scary thing counseling is vital to your life it doesn't matter what profession you are in at what stage of life you are in if you want to understand yourself and grow into a better version of yourself then counseling is a place for you and you don't have to do counseling or you don't have to go through therapy sessions for you to grow as a person even training is an option for those people who feel like they are threatened by therapy and so invest in yourself thank you so much for coming thank you I really appreciate it the final question I usually love asking anyone who comes here what are the three things you can't live the house without as a woman for me I cannot even personal items actually we are talking about personal items I cannot live my house without a tipi that is tissue paper I can also not live the house without my bible I love the bible, I read it frequently and also I cannot live the house without my phone for me my phone my wallet you can tell the difference between my wallet she is more feminine than I am I think my phone my wallet and probably some face tissues on the road you are a cheetah or a tortoise I wouldn't say I am a tortoise tortoise, I am not you are a cheetah go get her you are a cheetah or a tortoise cheetah definitely I am not a cheetah I am a cheetah but I am a cheetah you are a cheetah you are a cheetah I am not a cheetah I am a cheetah thank you so much for making time thank you I appreciate the insights on counselling and the place of women in terms of counselling and the place of young people so we appreciate thank you for making time that was Jane, enabling two phenomenal women who are counsellers let me just get it I need to say it correctly at clarity We have been sharing insights about counseling, the place of a woman in counseling. Who needs counseling? Is it just because you have an issue that you need counseling? And everything matters counseling and self-awareness. Today's strength of a woman is tenacity and strength emotionally. That is the strength of a woman.