 Thank you for joining us on YT5 for updates. My name is Patricia Muriuki and tonight we have a very interesting topic or rather let me not call it interesting but say a very informative topic for you tonight. We are joined by two gentlemen who are going to help us talk about responsible fatherhood. We try to really understand what do we mean when we talk about responsible fatherhood. If you are a dad, how they are watching us, if you are a child watching us, get to share with us your experience in terms of how your father has raised you, what do you think are some of the lessons that your father has instilled in you and also reaches on our social media platforms that is at YT5 for channel. You can also talk to me at Patricia Muriuki but before we get to the discussion of the night, let's have a look at some of the few stories that are making headlines in the country tonight. We saw Emmanuel Corril captured Kenya's first gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics today in the men's 800 meters race. We also have Emmanuel, sorry, Fagason Rotich who also finished second in the same race. That is a very some good news for us as a country to celebrate and we still hope for more as a Tokyo Olympics continue. We also have a look at the COVID-19 numbers in the country. We are 1,335 people tested positive for COVID-19, bringing the total number of other cases in the country to 206,691. We have 1,093 recoveries, bringing the total number of recoveries in the country to 191,188. 30 people have succumbed to the virus, bringing the total number of fatalities in the country at 4,025. Positivity rate now stands at 17.5%. When I have to date with some of the things at her, some of the stories rather that her head in topping the headlights in the country, let us now dive into a conversation of the night responsible for the world. So, Gideon and Peter, welcome very much. Thank you for being a part of this discussion tonight. Peter Angure is a founder, part of his policy institute, and we also have Gideon Makumi who is a president of Future Now Mentorship. I would like to start with you, Gideon. When you think about responsible fatherhood, you know, we've given this name, maybe people feel that at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I do, I have a child out there, I'm a father. So, what does responsible father would mean to you as an individual? Thank you, Patricia. For me, responsible fatherhood is going beyond siring a child because all of us can be men, most of men can sire children, but it only takes a responsible one to take care of a child and become a dad. So, responsible fatherhood is the notion of going beyond impregnating a woman and having a child where you say I have a child somewhere. So, it's getting involved in that child's life from the beginning and if God bless you to the end. Peter, what is responsible father would mean to you? I would concur with Gideon that it's more about your involvement with the child other than you being a sperm donor, being the guy who donated, who sired the child. But that's where we differentiate between father and fatherhood because father is the guy who sires the child, who gives the... And father is a guy who is a material guy in a family. Fatherhood is more than material, it's the emotional part of the father who takes care of the child more in terms of day to day things of the child. I mean, a guy who takes the child to school in the morning, a guy who asks in the evening how was your day, not the provider. And this notion of a father has... Sometimes it's not only a main challenge, it's a societal challenge because society does not value fatherhood, society values the provider. When we discuss men, including in families, we say it's a guy who brings food to the table, who pays the bills, that's the guy we want to see. We don't want to see this guy who plays with the children, this guy who is... In fact, if you are a stay-home dad, then you'll be... A lot of guys will call you a scrub or a CC or whatever you call it. So fatherhood entails now that guy who is involved in a child's life 100% or around. You can be the provider, financial and material, but you can also be the emotional supporter of this child. Okay. And I have two fathers in the house tonight. So what has been your experience, Gijun, as far as fatherhood is concerned, so far? What can you say has been the highlight of having someone call you dad? I would say it's one of the best feelings that has its share of challenges because in the times we are in, there's a lot of influence, there's a lot of pressures of life and like before where our fathers were, I would say back in the days our parents were more present. Right now with the economical factors defending ourselves having to work sometimes even late at night and everything, but I think it takes... It's a personal responsibility to ensure that as much as there is a lot that you need to do, you're present because I think when all is said and done, your child will value the time they had with you more than the materials that you leave behind because my daughter and my son, I think they need me more than anything I can give them. The point is there's no substitute for my presence. I like that there's no substitute for the presence no matter how much you have to be, how they are looking for the money. So for you Peter, when you look at your children Rada, what is that thing as much as we are out here trying to make sure that they have whatever they need that is like materially, what is it that motivates you? How do you try to create the balance to make sure that I am the father who is able to make sure that I provide for my children and at the same time, I also want to be the dad who is present, that if my child sits down one day, they'll have a story to tell that daddy used to do this with me, daddy used to take me to certain events, how do you manage to do that? That's the most difficult thing for a man in the 21st century to be honest. For a guy to be able to, because as I mentioned, we have come from a tradition where the guy has always been the provider. In fact, a guy who goes home early like at five, he's seen like... He's not a man enough. What are you going to do? In fact, you're asked by your family, what's up today? The biggest challenge is trying to move from that definition of a father, because that's a father who we have been brought up with, a father who is Stan, a father who is a Disprinarian, a father who... In fact, I look in retrospect and say, who should be the Disprinarian in the family? Because all children are told, so imagine those who are not living with their parents like some of us. So what will they be told? Like, gojiye babako akujiye after two weeks, ama after a month. So it's actually now a change in the way we have been oriented as a society to start thinking about fatherhood. It's a bit of a shift from the guy who just provides, because nowadays women are providing. So if it's about material, you can actually agree nowadays families, people agree. I have a friend who is a stay-home dad and the wife is one because they looked at their income and said the wife makes way much more and they need to be with their children, at least for the first few years of their lives. Of course there is a lot of change because of education. Children are now, let's say, like I have a daughter who is in campus. So tell me how, I mean we were teenage fathers, that's the last story. But think about the needs of that child now are very different from the needs of maybe the smaller ones as he's saying the younger ones. So you have to have a balance as a father of, now this one who has left the house and needs you now as a guy, needs you as a friend, needs you as, you know, especially for daughters, they want this guy who they can talk to and say, hey, daddy, I'm wondering, am I doing the right thing hanging out like on a Tuesday or having this boyfriend or something like that. And it needs to be, children need to have a father who they can trust as a first friend. Mothers have played that role for a long time where mothers are the trusted ally to the children, such that kids, when let's say it's a girl who gets a first menstrual cycle, she runs to the mum and the mum talks to her, but we don't have a father who has already started this conversation with their daughters. So there's, and even for the sons, there's a lot of things that happen. I was talking to boys in a school the other day and they're starting to experience dreams. Boys are like, you know, a boy can't tell the mother I'm having weird dreams. How do you tell you? So they need a father who they can go to and say, hey, daddy, what the heck is this? And then a guy who can. So it's actually a reorientation of a father and fatherhood to the extent that we drop the notion, the traditional notions and take up a new responsibility, which is not easy. As I mentioned, it's the hardest thing to do. We'll take a very short break right here on Y-2-5. But when we come back, we get to talk about intentional fatherhood. Stay with us. Welcome back and thank you for staying with us on Y-2-5-4. If you're just joining us tonight, we're talking about responsible fatherhood. Before we took the break, I mentioned that we're going to talk about intentional dad, being an intentional father, being an intentional dad. What does that mean to you, Gidion? And how do you think fathers out here can be intentional fathers? You just don't get comfortable as we've said, just because you have a person there who's DNA march is yours. How can we be intentional fathers? Thank you. I think being intentional is knowing that fatherhood is a responsibility that has been given to you by God. And with that, what it means is that as much as you know that as a person see olazima we've seen cases where children are growing in absence of their fathers. But at the same time we've also seen the difference between when a child grows in presence of a father and when they grow without a father. And I think we need to understand that being a father I mean the root of a tree is what is most important than even the fruit. You restrict yourself as a father you need to know you are the root to this tree called childhood and therefore your child is the fruit. And if you want them to grow with values and morals it is your responsibility to pass them. Therefore as a father you must be very intentional about passing what you desire to see. The problem is that nowadays all everywhere people are blaming the young people because of the decade moral values in the society because of the things that are happening. The truth of the matter is I say without any fear of contradiction the problem is with our fathers. Whatever is happening today is a result as a failure in the system of fatherhood because I become what I see. Yeah it's true. I become what I've learned from my parents. And the problem is we have fathers nowadays who are telling us you find them smoking you find them drinking and they are telling you ati ato kiyona niki kunyua wewa usikunyua nimbaya. For sure if I'm seeing you drinking if I'm seeing you smoking if I'm seeing you doing all these other vices you cannot you don't have the moral authority to tell me that it is wrong. Therefore as a father I have to be intentional about being a role model because I think what we are lacking today in our society are role models and it starts right at home. We don't have to wait for the motivational speakers we don't have to wait for seminars to come and help us nacha our children Lakin itu miachia wa lemu tukachia pastas and there is nothing wrong with parents the pastors or the teachers doing this but it has to start where you are at home. Whatever you desire to see in your child be the first person to take responsibility in instilling that. Values, morals anything that you desire it has to start with me. I cannot tell my son this is wrong yet I am doing it. Gidion has mentioned something that I really really wanted to make sure that we have to talk about. Some of the things that we are seeing when a father is when a young person right now becomes a father and probably they run away from that responsibility maybe their dad was not present we have men who are fathers and their fathers are not present they did not learn from the best of the best. So how do we now try to show that those men that it is okay if that did not work out for you it does not mean that we take it to the next generation how can they learn to be able to be part of their children's life as much as their history was not the perfect for them. Peter? Well it's not easy for someone to learn especially because we say family values are instilled in the family but I want to pick up some point you were saying where we have fathers who you know because of the the way we have been brought up the fathers who are in the family but they are not present. So meaning they he's the family says oh we are a perfect family we have a father, mother and children you know the Mesa and Mrs. Kamau when they are children but this guy is not has not taken the intention of being part of the children's lives and it starts from the decision that I want to have a child I can tell you freely that maybe 60-70% of this the first born of a lot of men is accidental so they are like oops it happened it happened so now I have to marry this chick so now we have to bring up a child so it was not intentional from the word go so even when the child comes through you're like so what was I supposed to do you didn't even have a plan you plan as you progress and even when we want to sort of blame our fathers that is the system they found their system was that because maybe their parents had more than one wives and so the guy had to provide for all this and the guy was not had that in children how do you even balance your love and attention and everything for that in children so when we look at how intentional can you be in a child's life first it starts with you deciding do I want this child how many children do I want and what do I want to provide for them because we were just having a conversation during the break saying if if it's all about and that's the way society has said it is if it's all about provision then women should not get married they should just get sponsors because they will be able to I mean they will be able to pay rent and pay school fees but if you want this guy intentional and I look at family and when I talk about it I talk about the man and the woman in a family raising a child even if this guy is not providing materially and he's a guy who can pick the child from school and drop the child back home we need as a search to accept that but society does not like that society in fact one of my friends left there the other day when he went for a parents meeting because parents meeting in this country are women so he went to a parents meeting and he so when he came in the evening to the bar the guys asked him so how was the women's meeting wow so even the way society treats you when you become a responsible dad actually pushes you further from being a responsible father so we have a lot of reorientation that we need and he mentioned you don't need to go to seminars or stuff but intentionally you need to because no one has the generation we have of men most of them do not see this kind of a father most of them don't know how to react as a father so in our fathers used to beat us all the time because that was their only role and then pay fees and stuff so you becoming intentional on taking care of a child sometimes you have to go to school when we talk about let's talk about fathers raising sons masculinity how are you able to bring up your son knowing that you bring up you are able to bring up a son who knows that it is okay to probably sometimes try out something and it doesn't work out for example we've had so many times when men are rejected they tend to do very nasty and ugly things how do you bring up a child when you that you show them it is okay to be emotional it is okay to be vulnerable and it doesn't mean that you're weak but at the end of the day actually that is what makes you strong as a man so how can fathers make sure that they're not bringing up sons who don't know how to deal or communicate or connect with emotions this one I think it's very critical for a parent to make their child understand that there is a bit of emotions and a bit of logic and these two at one time at any given moment one be higher than the other one so as men we are told that for us you have to make it work but the reality is it doesn't always have to work there are those times when you fail and fail terribly but the point is our sons it starts with us we have to understand that we are not defined by our successes or failures if you know yourself very well and that's why it thinks like self-awareness is something that is very important whereby you help your child to grow knowing that these are my strengths these are my weaknesses because you can never be good at everything just because you are a man there are those times when you try things they are not in your area you've not identified your niche and you fail you shouldn't feel bad about it the thing is you have to try over and over again and you have as parents we have to help them become the best that they can be through identifying their strongest areas and when they fail it's okay to be emotional it's okay to be emotional but again don't delve in that so much that you lose yourself even as you're becoming emotional then know that it is for a time after this you rise up wipe off the dust and move on to the next thing so it is my responsibility to train my son rain that you can fail and it's okay to fail but you not keep on failing there is always an opportunity to succeed but you need to discover yourself first and know that this failure is not what is defining me the other areas that I can excel and do better than in this one area the time might have failed we've talked about how our fathers brought us up and that probably having an impact on how we get to be fathers but then when you get to a point where now it is time for you you want to be a child sometimes it's planned sometimes it is not planned Peter how do you think that people can help themselves young men watching this program or get to watch it later can be able to prepare themselves from their traumas how can they seek help to know that by the time I am bringing a child into this world I am mentally stable I am emotionally stable and financially stable to be able to be present because I believe for you to be a present father you need to be emotionally spiritually, socially like all those aspects have to be intact for you to be able to do that we tell boys you have to be ready for whatever you are taking up into and just before I respond to that I wanted to mention that failure even especially in relationships because that's where we talk about toxic masculinity masculinity it's because the boys have so much pressure to succeed not that they don't know how to take no for an answer but they have so much pressure I remember when we were just fresh from circumcision we were all told you must sleep with a girl so that you prove you're a man so this guy has so much pressure so every woman he meets and then you're rejected by two or three you start feeling because let me tell you no more men who go through normal adolescent up to young adults up to marriage they're rejected a million in one time it's a norm of a man to be you if you only katiad one girl and she accepted you you're lucky you have to katiad like five then to four refuse one accept half half because that's the journey of being a man and we tell boys that's the journey you have to go through this journey why because you have to be prepared for the challenges you will find as you get into a family as you because it's not only because fatherhood will not only be focused on your children is focused on your family so you have a wife and you have children how do you start the relationship with your wife so that she feels safe always safe with you not materially safe at least she can be able to say i am sure where my guy is i am sure what he's up to i am sure he will come home i am sure he can beat me you know from from the word and that's what boys need to start learning so that by if you feel you are really not prepared to live and that's why it's good to have relationships before i know religiously all that you're not supposed to have relationship before but it helps you grow because it makes you understand how how to relate with other human beings i used to love the notion the idea of mixed schools now high school that are no longer mixed most of them are separated they come to campus and they get shocked they see girls and they're like oh these are the women we were told to keep off because when we come to campus we will find many of them now he's not here tell me that on our side take up on the other question on how do you make sure that fathers who did not have a present dad in their lives how can they deal with your traumas how can you prepare yourself to be able to be a father who is present emotionally mentally and financially for your children first you recognize that you're coming from that background if you don't recognize that then you repeat the same mistake it's the same cycle so the first thing you realize is that this was where i'm coming from i don't like and your father doesn't have to have been toxic for you to say i don't want to be like my father your father could just have been living in emotions so he used to go to the bar because the friends go to the bar he used to smoke because the friends smoke so you say i don't want to be that kind of a guy but you also have to have a role model you cannot channel your way out from the sea like you don't know who i want to become you must have a role model saying this is the way this guy looks after his family you may have had us because you will find that the person you want to relate to at that level maybe you say obama is my role model and the girl you dating is not michelle so now you have to stop balancing now do i balance my life with this person but that being intentional and saying now i understand what it takes to be a father now i understand why i need to have a child have i the basic things what do you need to before you become a father you need to have a roof over your head you're not getting a child at your parents cubico you need to have that as a guy you need to have a plan for your family what are your plans for your family in fact i always tell you do you have have you an idea of what school you want your children to go to if you don't please don't get a child yeah because you have to start planning before they come yes you can you can say do you have an idea where your wife will give birth i used to pit you when we had kenya bus and you see pregnant women holding that that bus used to live in that nora phase five and you see them from there to kenyata and you say where is this guy who should be with his wife taking care even if they in the bus because not all of us will be pregnant how are they together ensuring that you present in in the lives of your family at every post so that you if you feel like i can't take my children to these hospitals my wife can't give birth in this hospital i can't take my children to this school then please stop just just hang around it's okay and it's never too late don't don't be pressured to want to have children at 18 yeah or see your friends having children and you also feel like if you feel 50 is okay if you feel 50 is when you're ready just go for it okay i would like us like a word one word greatest lesson that you've learned from your dad greatest lesson let's start with you pita what's the one thing no stories just the one thing honest honesty i think he was he he is one of those my dad would tell us how much he earns he would give you tell us i've given my mother this money he would tell us how much he earns i mean he was honest he would tell us how much he earns i will have a drink honest okay gudion greatest lesson i think i've learnt that fatherhood is not a position but rather i mean fatherhood is not a title but rather a position in the function and you have to be a father and he has been there for us that's why the father that our mom left us at a very young age my father proved that if you're there you can raise responsible sons and daughters okay i'll share my greatest lesson from my dad as we wind up legacy that you you would like to live as a father one day your akashu show taguka what is it that you want your children to speak of you what is that one being that you hope that when your kids look back at how you brought them up and all that what is it that you hope to live them with i think i want my children to know that even if i didn't give them everything they needed in life i loved them and i was there for them more than anyone else because it's my duty to be there for them okay pita i think it's a i did what i could so they should do what they can but it's not defined there is no parameter do what you feel when you sleep at night you okay you like i did what i could yeah sons being brought up by mothers and their fathers are not present they don't want anything to do with that what message do you have for those men who say a child and they can clearly see that's patricia patricia is my daughter but stuck is to ria patricia what message do you have for those those type of men those are very responsible kind of men you being a man is not just about probably if you can't take care of a child please use a condom okay thank you gidya you was as we closed as you wider i think on that one you don't deserve to call yourself a man or a father you are as good as that boy out there because fatherhood is about responsibility for now me wa kiyomge una nyamaza okay for me the greatest lesson that i have learnt and i still continue to learn from my dad he is about faith trusting in god if it is anything my dad has made sure that he has instilled in us it is the faith and to know that at the end of the day god is always your foundation for people who have watched us tonight thank you very much for being part of this and as you've had you have to make the decision if you're a father you want to be a dad kumumesleki you can still go back and go back to that child and build a relationship with them thank you very much my name is patricia murioki do have yourselves a very good night