 Good evening everybody and welcome to the Near and Middle East postgraduate taster session. My name is Hussam al-Malak and I'll be hosting you. Thank you very much for joining us wherever you are. I'll be providing you with a taster session on from a module that is running on the Near and Middle East MA program. So if you're taking the MA and Near Middle East program next year, this will be a compulsory module. It's about the Near and Middle East. It's called the Middle East in 10 sessions. So it's a 10 week module. I'll be providing the session on religion, Islam and the modern Middle East, which is today's session. It's a much more condensed session than the normal lecture. I will provide time later on for questions and answers where we can discuss anything that you are interested in discussing. I teach here in Salas. My specialty is modern Islamic thought. I actually did my PhD at Salas and I teach a postgraduate module and modern trends in Islam. So this taster session is also a very condensed overview of some of the trends that are discussed and examined in much more detail, a lot more detail in that postgraduate module, modern trends in Islam. Concerning the Middle East, coming to Salas, you're going to be studying dimensions of either Asia or Africa and I always think of the Middle East as that land mass that connects the two together. And to understand the Middle East, I always think that religion generally and Islam particularly is crucial to an insightful understanding and examination of the Middle East, specifically the modern Middle East where religion and Islam in particular is a very important dimension within the Middle East. It influences culture, media, politics obviously, and many other dimensions. So when people speak about Islam, it's rather very general. So from today's session, I'm going to be presenting you with an overview that there are in fact many different trends and dimensions of Islam. There's a lot of overlap between these different modern trends, but there are also crucial distinctions between the two. In this module, the session will present you with an overview of these different modern trends that have roots in the modern Middle East. And it presents you with these different modern trends. It presents you with a different perspective of the modern Middle East, a perspective that I suspect many of you would have encountered through the media, through politics and journalism. So this module, next year's module, and this session presents you with a different perspective. It's an academic specialist perspective. I thought I'd start off this session with a map, a map of the Middle East, albeit presenting it from a different dimension, a map from the 12th century. This is a geographer, Muhammad Idrisi, and the Lysian North African geographer, and that presents the Middle East from a perspective we are not very familiar with. For those of you who might be training or will be training in Arabic, you might be able to read some of the writings on this 12th century map of the Middle East, but actually it's also a map of the wider world at that time. In the center of the map you have the Middle East, you will, for those of you who have already picked up on it, this map represents North as being South and East and being presented in front of the West. And so there's a flip side of the different directions. Here is the Yemen and the Arab Peninsula, Iraq, Egypt and North Africa. On your right hand side, whilst on the extreme left hand side, you'll see China and India. For those of you who are familiar with Islamic religion and Arab culture, you would have heard about, yeah, Druge or in the English Yogg and Magog, presented as being the extremes of the world here in the bottom left corner. And obviously in the bottom right you'll see Europe, the Iberian Peninsula, France and Central Europe. So a map that presents the world, but particularly the Middle East from a different perspective, and which is what we will do as well in this module, but in this session as well, looking at the different trends and different trends of Islam that are very influential in the modern Middle East. I'm focusing on three main trends that are influential in the modern Middle East, these being Islamism, Islamism, and progressive or liberal Islam. Usually, with the last trend, you'll see academics conflating these two with each other. There are differences. If you're interested, we might have some time later on to go back and just talk about these differences. Islamism, Salafism and progressive understandings of Islam. Islamism remains one of the oldest modern interpretations, modern trends of Islam that has roots in the modern Middle East. It's a very modern trend. It's defined as a form of instrumentalization of Islam by individuals, groups and organizations that pursue political objectives. So Islamism is a trend that seeks to present to develop and articulate political solutions to political challenges, challenges that Muslims in the Middle East would confront in modern times. It presents a political response to these modern challenges that were faced by Muslims in the Middle East around the 20th century and continues to be a very prominent and popular trend. It's a trend that can be identified with individuals, particular individuals in the Middle East are identified as being Islamists. There are groups and organizations that are identified as being Islamists, but also with the very notable example of Iran, the Islamic Republic of Iran, where you actually have a modern nation state that exemplifies and manifests Islamism as a modern trend. What is it more details about Islamism? What is it that distinguishes Islamism and Islamists? I'll talk about that in a second. But some of the prominent Islamists that are important in the development of this trend. Some of you might have some people in mind already. Hassan Al-Banna from Egypt, known for being the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, one of the first and most oldest and continues to be a very prominent Islamist organization. Sayyid Qatub also from Egypt, who was a very prominent ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood, in particular, but Islamism in general, and his thought continues to be very influential amongst Islamists in the Middle East and beyond, has very different kinds of influence. Sayyid Qatub, the late Ayatollah al Khomeini, who was the supreme leader of the Iranian Islamic Republic of Iran, the leader of the Iranian Revolution, and he formulated an Islamist ideology that continues to be the ruling ideology of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Another prominent and influential Islamist, very prominent in the modern Middle East is Hassan Nasrullah, who's the secretary general of the Islamist Shi'i Islamist organization Hezbollah. So these are some prominent Islamists, Qatub and Khomeini are ideologues, so they developed their understanding of Islamism, they wrote about it, and their ideologies continue to be very prominent, not only in the Middle East, but also beyond the Middle East. So that which distinguishes Islamism are its doctrines, but also from an academic perspective, we look at the way that Islamists engage with the primary sources, the primary texts of Islam as a religion, mainly here the Quran. Islamists generally aim or seek to apply Islamic law, which is commonly referred to as the Sharia, but we can later on discuss whether or not this is an accurate term, whether or not Sharia can be used to describe Islamic law. They seek to apply Islamic law as state law. So the laws of the modern nation states by which modern Middle Eastern societies are ruled and governed. That's usually the primary aim that distinguishes Islamism as a modern trend. And they will argue that to realize this aim of applying Islamic law as state law, they will try to realize this through politics and engaging in modern day politics. As I mentioned, Hassan al-Banna was the earliest of the Islamists in the Middle East. Islamism also developed elsewhere beyond the Middle East and the subcontinent in India and later on in Pakistan. But the oldest Islamist organization continues to be that which was founded by Hassan al-Banna, the Muslim Brotherhood, which has a very long history of political engagement in the modern nation state of Egypt. Around 10 years ago after the Arab Spring, the Muslim Brotherhood through democratic elections managed to acquire political power and they would in fact rule modern day Egypt for one year before they were later subsequently overthrown. So again, just to emphasize just how important the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamists continues to this day. Potobh's contribution, ideological contribution to Islamism was his formulation of these doctrines, Islamist doctrines he referred to as Jahiliyya and Haqimiyya. Anyone familiar with Islam as a religion will recognize this term Jahiliyya which is used to describe the period before Islam, the religion, the revelation of Islam with the Prophet Muhammad in the sixth, seventh century AD. But Potobh now will go back to this Quranic concept and he will reformulate it, he will now interpret Jahiliyya as not a historic position, a historic epoch but rather a condition, a social condition whereby Muslim societies are not ruled by Islamic law. And from his own modern day perspective, he thought and he assessed that many modern day societies in the Middle East, even though these societies identified themselves as being Muslims, he argued in his very famous book, Milestones, he argued that in fact these societies, these individuals are nowadays in a state of Jahiliyya. Jahiliyya contrasted with his other condition, he would also formulate known as Haqimiyya can be translated in different ways but generally refers to a form of divine sovereignty. The divine sovereignty in a way by which Islamic law reflects this form of divine sovereignty in a social dimension. Haqimiyya's own ideology was reflected in his doctrine of willyat al-Faqih or willyat al-Faqih from the Persian pronunciation, he argued that Islamic law also has to be applied by a modern day government. One of his interesting formulation concerning the form of governance was that he argued that such an Islamic government has to be led by a Muslim jurist, person, a jurist who specializes in Islamic law, which was a very unique formulation of doctrine of willyat al-Faqih to be distinguished from its Sunni counterparts, whereby Khomeini argues that the Islamic government and Islamic government has to be led by a specialist of Islamic law, the Faqih. Islamists generally are distinguished by their political and ideological interpretations of the Quran. So from an academic perspective, how is it that we can distinguish Islamists from other Muslims in the Middle East or beyond, is by the way, by their aims, the aim to establish Islamic law as state law, but particularly by the way they interpret the Quran. They will project their own modern ideologies, political worldviews and project these back onto their interpretations of the Quran, and they will develop some very unique interpretations of the Quran as the primary source of Islamic religiosity. So that's a very quick and very brief overview of Islamists, their doctrines, their hermeneutics, and the science, the methodologies of interpretations, textualist interpretations. And as I mentioned, the Islamists continue to be a very prominent player in the modern Middle East. Beyond the Middle East in North Africa and the subcontinent in Southeast Asia, but the oldest of the organization system Muslim Brotherhood. The Sunni Islamist organization, but so too is the Shi'a Islamist organization Hezbollah. There's another very prominent Islamist organization that has a very prominent role to play in the politics of Palestine and Israel, that being Hamas. And as I mentioned earlier on, the Islamic Republic of Iran can reflect the modern Islamist nation states. So these are the Islamists. The Islamists are to be distinguished from another equally popular and influential modern trend, known as the Salafis, or Salafism. Salafism refers to a term Salaf. Salaf means those that came before those who preceded. And it refers to the first three generations of the early Muslim community. So it refers to the Muslim community of the prophets, and the generation immediately after that, and the generation after that. It refers to the pious forbearers of Islam, that being the first three generations of the Muslim community. It is, in fact, a very modern trend, a modern trend in the sense that these Salafis, these Salafi Muslims, see to go back and emphasize the piety and principles of that early Salafi generation or generations as reflecting the correct understanding of Islam. So Salafis will argue that all interpretations and developments in Islamic thought and Islamic practices after these three generations reflect what they will refer to as an innovation. Be it in the establishment of the schools of Islamic law, the schools of jurisprudence, the madaheb, they will be very critical of developments in Islamic theology, kalam, very critical of philosophical developments, but also very distinctively critical of mystical and Sufi developments. And this understanding that there was something very special about the first three generations of Muslim community is rooted in a tradition, a saying attributed to the prophets, where he is now reported to have said that the best of the community are those of his generation, and the one that come after them, and the one that come after them. So this understanding of Salafism is in fact rooted in the another very important Islamic textual source, the hadiths, which come in importance immediately after the Quran, the Quran being the primary source of Islamic thought on religiosity. But the hadith comes second, but in practical terms, the hadith is by far more extensive than the Quran. So it becomes a means by which Salafis are able to identify what they consider to be the correct understanding of Islam. So you'll see in fact Salafis engaging in the study of hadiths more than anything else. Who are those Salafis? Well, Salafism as a modern trend, modern trend has its roots in the modern Middle East. It has origins in Egypt in the 1920s and 30s, but as a very distinctive modern trends, it arose in what we now refer to as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And some of the most prominent of the earlier scholars of Salafism, Muhammad Nasser al-Din al-Bani, who from his name you can tell he came from Albania, but he grew up in Syria and later on he taught in Saudi Arabia, but was going to be exiled and he would later on died in Jordan. The previous grand jurist of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Abdul Aziz bin Baz, another very prominent Salafi scholar, but you have a new generation of Salafis and Salman al-Oda who's also from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But Hazm Salah Abu Ismail, who comes from Egypt, became very prominent after the Arab Spring. He was one of the presidential candidates before he was disqualified and after the overthrow of the Muslim Brotherhood, he was going to be imprisoned, continues to be imprisoned in Egypt, but so too is Salman al-Oda who's also imprisoned in modern day Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and both for their political views and articulations. A brief overview of Salafi doctrines. They believe in a puritanical understanding of Tawhid, Tawhid being the unity of God, which is what all Muslims believe in as an article of faith and belief, and they will seek to denounce any form of what's known as association or shirk. Any practices that challenge the doctrine of Tawhid, so for example, seeking the blessings of individuals, or the building of shrines of pious individuals, be they Sufis or Shias, for example, the Salafis will consider that these challenge the doctrine of the unity of God, and therefore these individuals who who venerate these individuals or these shrines are now committing the cardinal sin of shirk or association, which actually can lead to their excommunication. So Salafis can now subsequently engage in a process of excommunicating takfir of other Muslims, Muslims who might engage in these practices or beliefs that Salafis consider to challenge the doctrine of Tawhid. A prominent feature of Salafis is that they will prioritize a literal understanding of the revelation, the Quran, but so to the Hadiths over reason and rationality. That's not to say that they are anti-rationalists or non-rationalists. But whenever there appears to be a tension or conflict between the literal interpretation of the text or reason and rationality, revelation is now prioritized. A very prominent doctrine is the doctrine known in Arabic as al-wala wal-barah, whereby Salafis will argue that Muslims generally including themselves have to show and display loyalty and friendliness to God and other Muslims and to disavow non-Muslims, which became very problematic during the Gulf War in 1990, 1991 Gulf War, when the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia sought the help, military help and assistance of the United States and the United Kingdom and France and other western governments to defend them against what they perceived to be as the aggression of the Iraq at that time. And Salafis argued that this was now showing a form of loyalty or friendliness towards non-Muslims. And they argued that this was a challenge to the doctrine of al-wala wal-barah, loyalty to Muslims and disavow of non-Muslims. Salafis will engage in the study of the texts, the Arabic texts, the Quran as I mentioned, but also the Hadiths. And in that sense, they require to have a mastery of the Arabic language, philology, which is a study of the Arabic language, the sciences and the texts. Even though Salafism is a very prominent trend in the modern Middle East, but it's also a transnational movement in Europe and in Asia as well as in Africa. And you'll see Salafis everywhere in the Muslim world, especially those who do not have command of the Arabic language, they will engage in the academic study of the Arabic language. And in fact, you will note that SAWAS is a very prominent institution, academic institution of the Arabic language and the Arabic texts. Salafis will interpret the Quran and the Hadith in what's known as a de-contextualist method of interpretation or hermeneutic methodology. Regardless of the context of revelation, what happened at the time of revelation, that is not to be prioritized or awarded significance in the way that Salafis will interpret these texts. The meanings of these texts are understood quite literally, and it is non-historicist in the sense that these meanings are applicable at all times and at all places as well. They will also follow what's known as a segmental interpretation of the texts, so they can take a part of the revelation and interpret it and understand it without any relation to the other parts of the wider text in the Quran, but also the Hadiths as well, known as a segmental approach towards the interpretation of the texts. That's a very quick overview of the doctrines of Salafis, Salafism, and their methodology of interpreting the texts, which again becomes very distinctive, it distinguishes the Salafis from the other trends. So after the Arab Spring, Salafis who for a very long time were very critical of Islamists, and critical of political, the political association of Islamists in Egypt, it was seen that in fact Salafis did seek political representation, and they engaged in parliamentary elections, presidential elections, and it became rather difficult to distinguish between Salafis and the Islamists, they were in fact in a coalition with each other. But there could still be, they could still be distinguished from each other, and by the methodology by which they would interpret the texts, the Quran and the Hadith, and by extension it means that they can come up with different interpretations of Islamic law. So that remains a crucial methodology by which to distinguish between Salafis and Islamists. The third and equally important Islamic trend in the Middle East, which is not only significant in the Middle East but also in the wider context, geographic context, Muslims all over the world, in Europe, North America, in Africa, South Africa, but crucially in the subcontinent, and in Southeast Asia is that trend known as the progressives or liberals. According to a scholar, Omid Safi, in a text, he edited progressive Muslims. He refers, he describes progressive Islam as a form of Islamic humanism, he refers to it as an interpretation of Islam for the 21st century. And he states that at the heart of the progressive Muslim interpretation is a simple yet radical idea that every human life, female and male Muslim and non Muslim rich or poor, northern or southern has exactly the same intrinsic worth. He argues that progressive is a relentless striving towards a universal notion of justice, in which no single community's prosperity, righteousness and dignity comes at the expense of another crucial features of the modern academic understanding of progressive Islam. And this is very distinctive progressive Muslims are in fact, generally, themselves are academics and scholars, and in that sense progressive Islam reflects an academic Islamic trend, albeit it has become very prominent among not only in the Middle East, but also in Southeast Asia, whereby Muslims have now become more, more progressive Islam has taken root amongst generations of Southeast Asian Muslims. Who are some of those progressive Muslims coming from the Middle East? Well, Abdullah Naim, a Sudanese progressive Muslim academic scholar, who's actually now based in the United States. Abdul Karim Sush, an Iranian progressive Islamic scholar, he specializes in Islamic neo theology. Another Iranian scholar, Ziba Mir Hussaini, she specializes in the anthropology of Islamic law and we're very lucky to have her based here in Salas. She engages, she researches and teaches here in Salas. And another progressive Islamic scholar was the late Nasser Hamid Mosaic, who came from Egypt. So it reflects the academic background and nature of progressive Islam. Three main themes that might distinguish progressive Islam, according to Omid Safi in that text I mentioned earlier, are the themes of social justice, gender justice, and pluralism. Social justice that seeks to challenge any forms of discrimination in society, socio economic or political, racial discrimination in that sense, scholars from South Africa who were some of the earliest scholars to develop and formulate progressive Islam Islamic thought as a response to apartheid and racism in South Africa. And such themes of social justice were going to become very prominent of progressive and liberal Muslims all over the world, but so too in the Middle East. Gender justice is another prominent theme. In fact, most of the progressives will be will focus on this on this theme of gender justice gender equality that seeks to challenge patriarchy. Any form of discrimination against women, unjust discrimination against women, and members of sexual minorities as well. And pluralism and other prominent of the progressive Islamic interpretation. Pluralism beyond tolerance. It's no longer just good enough to tolerate others that one has disagreements with, but to accept others that be they others of different religious orientation. Different nationality different race and different understandings of Islam and affirmation of otherness, according to this theme of pluralism. Progressives understand that the Quranic text reflects is is understood to be a literary text. It is divine in its origins, but it has a crucial human dimension as well. And in that sense, it also is subjected to modern literary criticism, which is what so many of these modern scholars will engage in. And their interpretations of these texts, they will privilege moral values and ethical values and values such as justice, dignity and mercy over the literal interpretation of the texts. They will also develop and formulate and apply what's known as the contextualist readings of the texts, particularly the Quran, to understand what the Quran means the Quranic verses, particularly the legal verses, which in fact not that many progressives will look at the wider context of revelation to understand what that what any particular Quranic verse means. And it's not good enough to understand the the text in isolation of the wider socio economic political cultural context of society at that time. So you'll see a lot of these progressive scholars are sociologists are historians are legal scholars, and these different specializations become crucial in the modern contemporary reinterpretations of the Quran. And they will also develop, they will adopt a holistic or sometimes a thematic interpretation of the Quran, which has become very distinctive of feminist interpretations of the Quran. Another very prominent feature of the progressive Islamic discourse is their critical engagement or approach to the hadiths the sayings attributed to the Prophet Muhammad and the narrations, even though these might have been considered to have been authentic and pre modern in times. And progressive scholars will go back and adopt a critical approach, and not to say a dismissive but rather a critical approach to the hadiths to the sayings and narratives attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. And that was a very quick and general overview of three modern trends trends that have roots are very prominent in the modern Middle East to understand the modern Middle East. And religion is prominent Islam is instrumental in understanding the modern Middle East I personally would argue, but Islam is not a unit is not. It's just one on one authoritative understanding of Islam that dominates in the modern Middle East. In fact, as we have seen there are three, if not actually more different understandings of Islam, different Islam that have roots in the modern Middle East and beyond. So this is one taster session of that of that module, the Middle East in 10 sessions, but it was also a very, very quick overview of some of the trends and issues that we can also that I examine more detail in that module modern trends in Islam. If you have any questions about any of this, we don't have time to discuss them you're more than welcome to email me as I'm in my lack h a 10 at saw us dot AC dot UK on that note. Thank you very much for your attention. And happy to answer any of your questions. Just before we start on the question and answer the Q&A session. May I please present my apologies for not having managed to be here at the beginning of the session my name is your ghost status I am the convener of the main in Middle Eastern studies. Some of you may have been in the previous session. Thank you for which I attended as well. And as my good colleague has said, I, as from next year will be the convener as well of a module that will be compulsory for the main in Middle Eastern studies that will have the title the Middle East in 10 weeks or the Middle East and 10 issues. The provocative title to entice you to sort of see the kind of challenges that scholars dealing with the Middle East, or indeed with what has been challenged as an area to begin with face. Who some has very kindly given you a taste of what one of the sessions, one of the 10 issues. That will be examined, most likely next year, I mean not next academic session will be the different versions of Islam, and, and the way that they are so fundamental in our approach to to Islamic culture Islamic societies in the Middle East. Anyway, I do not want to go any further on this. Amy is probably here to coordinate. I have the feeling none of you can, if I understand correctly, unmute yourselves or actually talk, we have to operate via the chat. Is that right. Yes, that is right. So participants are able to ask questions via the Q&A function and I can see that there is a question coming already. Thank you. Sorry, Amy, I was. So, who some I'm sure you're more colluding with me I was unable to see the Q&A, which is the, I was seeing on the chat there's a Q&A with a question about Islamist movements like ISIS and Al Qaeda, which preach violent Islam. How can we talk about role of Islam in the region without referring to them. I'm asked by Edward Speed. I think the clear answer you'll find Edward is that is that of course we will, you know that there has to be mentioned of them as well, but not in a monopolizing sort of way is what I'd offer is an initial comment but but I will let my colleague deal with a question more thoroughly. I would definitely concur with your course and you can't understand modern Middle East and developments concerning violence politics without taking into consideration these militants movements, ISIS and Al Qaeda. I would just say that rather than describe them as Islamist. They are, in fact, Salafi, they're not Islamist, even though you might hear them being referred to as Islamist. Al Qaeda does not try to present a political response to a political challenge. And in fact, Al Qaeda like ISIS, do adopt a non political approach. That's also became challenged with the with the ascension of ISIS in recent years. And, again, you had so many academics going back and saying, is it Islamist? Is it Salafi? Well, they are Salafi, mainly in the way that they attempt to justify their acts of violence. And they use terrorism with reference to the Quran and hadiths. And in fact, this is a very clear example of the literal interpretations of the Quran and hadith that they will go back and use reference to justify acts of violence and terrorism. Yes, these are very important movements, crucial in the modern Middle East. But I would definitely say they are not Islamist. They are Salafi. A militant Islamist movement is Hezbollah. Another one is Hamas. Obviously, what happened in the last few years, you have these militant Islamist movements and the militant Salafi movements engaging in military conflict amongst each other. But I would say ISIS and Qaeda are militant Salafi movements and very important to emphasize that they are a minority of the Salafi worldview, albeit a very loud and very violent minority. Not all Salafis are terrorists or militants or violent individuals. But ISIS and Al Qaeda are adopt a literal interpretation of these texts. And in fact, in one of the sessions of the module that I teach, the module on violence and terrorism, we focus on that session on how ISIS and Al Qaeda try to justify these acts of violence and terrorism by going back to the sources. And I would argue that from an academic perspective, it becomes very important to try to understand the means by which these organizations try to justify these and rather than just condemn these acts of violence, it is important to understand how they are justified. I hope I've answered that question. Go here. Thank you. Yes, I don't think I can see another question on the QA. Amy will alert us otherwise. I thought I might add the comment. Sorry, that as part of the Middle Eastern 10 issues course, one issue that I think deserves great attention and may well end up being a leitmotif along the different sessions is the degree to which you could argue, along with a German scholar of literature, Thomas Bauer, that Islam has been all together a culture of ambiguity, a culture which has tolerated historically a significant amount of amphysemy, ambiguous in the sense that more than one meanings, more than one interpretations are possible, and has interestingly stayed clear of what you could describe as a kind of Victorian 19th century European approach, which on in the name of enlightenment emphasizes the one true and one possible right answer to any question in the name of the spirit of rationalism that there can be only one right decision and one right answer. And this has been an interesting intellectual exercise and beyond in the course of the 19th century and the reforms of the Islamic world in which an area that I myself am somewhat specializing in namely the Ottoman Empire and the reforms in the 19th century of the entire societal system from the Sultan at the top to various institutions that had strong societal links, like for instance even the convents of the of the Sufi orders and so on. In the course of this great reform movement, this Perestroika movement, you could say which is called exactly that in Turkish using an Arabic term tanzimat, from tanzim in an Arabic plural, referring to the restructuring and reorganization whereby the European idea of there being one right answer to given problems was heartily endorsed and applied to Islam. And this taken to extreme, of course, goes has an awful lot in common with the Salafist position of not just a literal interpretation but they're being only one correct interpretation. And, and this goes in many ways you could argue against the spirit in which Islam or the various Islam's historically operated whereby even the most learned Ulema, Alim, would perhaps it's not unfair to say would end by saying but God knows best, leaving exactly that kind of humility which wasn't just false humility of his interpretation, his particular interpretation being exactly that an interpretation, there however being room for possibility other interpretations and so on. So it's, I find it a fascinating and much maligned and misunderstood feature of the history of Islamic societies that this counter intuitive internalization of Western attitudes to scientific truth, which is presented and supposed to be unambiguous and and not subject to maybe this maybe that type of interpretation, having taken hold of Islamic thinking. So, these with these is, these are some of the aspects that we hope to probe further and perhaps deeper in in that course, which I'm sure aspects of which I'm sure are being dealt with in as they have to in Hussam's course modern trends in Islam. In the meantime, it has can one say that these three trends in Islam are predominantly rooted in the Sunni tradition we have not said much about she is man she I tradition though of course, the Iranian scholars mentioned in the progressive liberal camp would have come from the she tradition so maybe who some would you like to address the question of the degree to which these trends are predominantly Sunni. No, they're not predominantly Sunni. Even though for example when it comes to the origins of the Muslim Brotherhood. Yes, that was Sunni. In fact, we'll see that these modern trends are very reformist in their nature, and they are responding to very modern challenges and in that sense, the sectarian dimension and differences become immaterial to how these modern trends respond to these modern challenges. And so Islamism, as I mentioned, the Islamic Republic of Iran, the only example whereby Islamism is successful at it attains political power and political power for the more than 40 years now. That wasn't rooted in the Sunni she sectarian divide. The only exception to the sectarian dimension that is fundamentally rooted in Sunni Islam are the Salafis Salafis Salafism is a very sectarian hyper sectarian approach, and they are another very prominent feature of the Salafi trend is their, their anti Shiite outlook, to the extent that they've come very violent, and not only anti Shiite in their outlook but also anti Sufi which also encompasses other Sunnis as well. And progressives. Again, that sectarian dimension is immaterial and in fact you'll see the most, if not all, I'll go out on a limb and say that all in fact progressive scholars all over the world will downplay and de emphasize any sectarian divisions because these are in fact not material to their formulation of the progressive worldview. And sectarianism is there but it's not significant. Thank you who some we have a way it's now four minutes to the hour when will I imagine we will be having to wrap up. So, in the next couple of minutes, could you possibly address with some of the question from john Lawrence, or is that Lawrence john. There's a question about the relationship between Islamic thinking and socialist thinking, and, and how this has changed with the decline of socialist politics in the Middle East. So any connection, any connections between Islamic trends, trends in Islam and socialist thinking. Socialists, some of these trends, particularly the Islamists are ideology, it's ideological, and they developed as a response to the rise of different ideologies. Islamism was one prominent ideology and Arab nationalism and other prominent ideology and the Arab nationalist regimes were also socialist. And Islamism developed as ideology in response to these ideologies in the 20th century. And the politics socialist thought, and there was another very prominent ideologue. So, Islamist ideologue, Ali Shariati in Iran, and his Islamist ideology was to some extent had a lot of overlap with socialism. So that was a very important influence on this on Islamism. And in some of the politics, some of the themes that might characterize socialist politics, can there is an overlap, I would argue with the social justice dimension of progressive Islam. And there might be a lot of overlap and continuities between the socialist themes and politics, but also the theme of social justice. And also the early progressives and liberal trend in Islam. Right. Thank you for delivering an answer just on on cue to two minutes too so I think we should at this moment be wrapping up and it just remains for me, as I say as convener of the MA degree in in Middle Eastern studies to thank for delivering this taster session, and perhaps apologize for the sound of the clock in the background, which has come a little bit early and untimely. And to say that we very much look forward to welcoming some of you to saw us, I think you have been given a proper taste of what lectures will be like in some of the major courses that you will be taking. I hope very much that you have enjoyed them, and we look forward to receiving your queries and and seeing you again soon. So it's goodbye from me. Goodbye from me thank you very much and hope to see you some of you next year. And Amy you could make the closing remarks. Thank you ever so much for this very informative session and hopefully our attendees got a great insight into, you know how we teach at so so thank you ever so much. And yes, we'll hopefully see you in September. Lovely thank you very much. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye now.