 Okay, let's get started with our second presentation tonight and You know spring is right around the corner when people start thinking about starting their own transplants from seed and Here to help us be successful in growing our own transplants is Todd Weinman. Todd is the Horticulture educator for Cass County. So welcome Todd to the forum Hello, and thank you for coming tonight Tom won't let me use any sharp instruments like last year for the apple tree grafting And so I'm he found a safer project for me to talk on We'll get started here soon as our there we go I was gonna say too sometimes when I'm at a presentation I know maybe some of you are too you think of a question and want to ask it But maybe or maybe you don't think of it until later if you want to give me a call at my office 241-5707 if you think of a call later or later on this week And I want to ask about starting seeds you sure can so it's 241-5707 We're gonna talk tonight about Some basics and seed starting We're gonna talk about obviously what I have on your seeds containers potting medium fertilizer light and watering One thing to keep in mind is that there's more than one way of doing it I'm just gonna go through a few different ways or different types of Materials so that you can get started with this on your own many people that first start Planting seeds indoors want to do the heirloom or the open pollinated type of type of seeds and Then I can understand why I'm gonna go through a little bit of the difference between hybrid and open pollinated heirloom first Before before you get yourself set in stone or before hopefully you buy too many of one or the other Hybrid seeds are developed and they have hybrid bigger and what that is there across of more than likely or usually an open pollinator heirloom plant and The offspring of that many times is called F1. These are stronger plants disease resistant higher yield They ship well many of your your fruits and vegetables that come from distant states and other countries are hybrid One thing that's a little different with that though is the open pollinated or the heirloom varieties You know different flavors different colors. They tend not to ship well They do they are not as strong a plant. They tend to get more insects attacking The yields tend to be to be less. However, the the flavor is Is very nostalgic if you had a grandparent or an older relative or a friend that used to garden when you were a child Many of the flavors and colors that you'll find with the heirlooms were plants They grew and so there there are reasons for growing them But if you're first starting out and I've never garden before I would go with with hybrid So you have some success and and throw in a few pollinators or open pollinated To buy seeds or not You can save a lot of money if you know what you're doing when you save your seeds if you don't you can Basically spend a season growing a plant and when you taste the fruit, it'll be woody no flavor extremely hard Very bad flavor and in and so saving your seeds I might try it, but I wouldn't base your whole garden on that Say for example, you had a bean seed that are variety beans that you enjoyed and they were an heirloom or open pollinated ratty and You didn't have any other beans around and your neighbors didn't grow anything Any type of beans? Yeah, you could save those now if you had a hybrid tomato and You thought while these are the best tomatoes I've ever had you save the seeds. I can pretty much guarantee They're not going to come true to form and what you'll get is a tomato, but what they've crossed with or what? Their their fruit tastes like is is basically unknown Organic is a is another topic that that could warrant an hour. So if we're just going to touch on that So a lot of your heirloom and some of your hybrids too are grown organically They the organic market is one that's Very big or especially unless some of your larger Cities like Washington's DC and such and there there's also some in different towns, too So it's kind of a more of an emerging market. I would say I do like The flavor of both however, so as far as organic I guess it's up to you as a personal preference or a lifestyle, maybe Hi, Brad. We talked about that You can get a variety of seeds for both a Large variety and if if you don't think for example, let's say you wanted Hawaiian Tomatoes they're fantastic There's a variety called pineapple. It's an heirloom I try to grow one every year. It produces a few very nice Fantastically orange and red striped tomatoes, but I don't grow them for storage. They My understanding is some of the hybrid or the heirlooms and the open pollinated don't have the same acid content But the main reason I don't grow them is that they're not as reliable as the hybrid vegetables like early girl celebrity containers this is one where People will for example have containers on their balcony or where wherever they have them and a lot of times they go by the visual appearance and I can understand that but the Structure of the container is also very important one thing If you if you think back to a time when people had a lot of clay containers Many people grew the clay, you know, that's all basically all they had and they use those one thing nice But a clay container is and I guess it depends on who you're asking might not be so nice But if you notice on the outside, there's always a salt buildup What a clay container will do is when you water your plant salt will actually work its way through the clay pot to the outside So it's actually pulling salt out of out of your soil. It's unsightly people have stopped that process by glazing and Kind of defeats the purpose of a clay pot One thing which one is right? I always tell people to go by how wide it is But also how deep it is your roots will go down more than an inch or two And a lot of your larger plants and it's good to have a nice deep pot as well as a wide pot in regards to To to the size of the pot This is a I could say cute because I have two daughters But it's a very cute little pot, but there's something wrong with it and that there is no drainage So as you add water to this soon, you have kind of a boggy Slimy mess inside that never really dries out And I'll see you start to get diseases that really enjoy that environment your salt layers will build up and As time goes on when you water you're actually creating salt water because of the salt that's been left over in there This one's better. You can see the one drainage hole in the front. However, it's still glazed And there is only one drainage hole and another thing it's way too small You might grow a little tiny maybe a succulent or something in there But as far as a vegetable, I really can't think of anything that would do well on a pot this size a Very important thing drainage holes And people say well, we want to conserve water. We don't want to waste water Why would you ever have holes in the bottom of your container? The water that we have here in the area Has salt in it not a lot just a tiny little bit But if you don't drain the water or pour the water so the water goes through now at the bottom of the container after a while you'll build up a salt layer in there and One day when you water the water will hit that salt layer and your plants will have a real problem So you water and water goes out the bottom Here's an example of a typical pot and you can see it's got a number of holes in the bottom Evenly space they don't have to be but it is nice and that that's an example of good drainage in a pot There are a number of different types of pots Sometimes people will plant in the coconut core is a very nice pot There there are no new no nutrients in coconut core, but you can plant it in there a lot of your nurseries like this It's a very clean fairly durable container Sometimes people will take and cut to the side if they if they've had troubles with the roots getting through there It's um, it's something that once it's done. You can rototill it into your garden if you want compressed peat moss Peat moss is a very nice product also for adding organic matter to your garden. However, sometimes Depending on the variety of pot that you get and I'm not going to say which ones But some of them the the roots get bound in there and they won't break through and so you have to physically cut the pot or Try to take the pot off the plant Some though if you plant it, it'll go right through it and it's fantastic So you'll have to figure that out yourself as far as which variety or which one commercial likes to use plugs plug trays and there's machines or Graduate students high school students students of some kind that will Plant these and and this is what more for a commercial person where we're a homeowner can use these two. They're very nice neat clean easy not that expensive and I use both One way some people say well, do you have to put them all? Individually in pots you can or you can do like this. Here's some onions growing The onions are well, I didn't dump them in but basically what I do is I'll sprinkle them over soil Add some more soil and here you can see a milk jug with holes that cut in there for drainage and water them And they come up and then when I want to transplant them I take a scissors and I'll cut the container and I'll break them apart gently and I'll pot them into a little bit larger size containers and It seems to work well for me. It's especially when I'm in a hurry Here if you don't you know you can put it in something like these like these commercial plug trays or you could start I'm right in there too sometimes with a plug tray what I'll do is I'll plant for example two in a cell and Sometimes I'll do one if I'm short on seed but I like to because I'm that way if something were to happen You had something wrong with your germination or whatever your trays fill up nicely. So Here's just an example of plants grown in in some peat moss The next slide you can kind of see and this is something that if I were Going to put it into a pot for example, I would just dig it right in and plant it right there and be done It's nice easy and it's it's fairly clean. So some people really like this Your containers that like here's an example of containers that are just barely big enough for these tomatoes and and then that's fine It's just you use what you which what is appropriate Here's an example of They're they're just they could be slightly bigger, but they weren't it was that a high school or an element I mean middle school The plants are doing fine in there And if you notice they have good drainage but they have all types of containers And so one thing to keep in mind is if it's outdoors and you're growing plants on stay away from your metal containers Unless you want to cook your plants And this is just an example of a raised bed. I put that in there because I liked it. I guess Potting media when you plant your when you start your seeds I would suggest just purchasing it an expensive way to use. It's clean Not everybody likes to do what I say and that's perfectly fine for you I just purchased it what I'll do is I'll go to your local nursery and I'll say what do you use to start your? vegetables your flowers and and they always tell you and they'll say it's this one that we have something cheaper or whatever I Always use with the nurseries use and I've never had bad luck with that Many times it's it's it's not exactly like the soil that you would use in a pot. It's more area. It has different spacing elements in it, but It's not that expensive to purchase it If you're gonna make it now it becomes a little tricky What I would suggest if you've never made it before and had success you might want to try several recipes So a lot of times people will add actual soil from the garden If you do that, I would definitely pasteurize it to kill the bad flora and fauna and other creatures in there Pasteurization will will do that the problem is where do you pasteurize it as a young horticulturalist recently married? I had brought in a cookie tray or actually a cake pan filled with soil And I cooked it in the oven and my wife my new wife came home and I guess I've never really done it since then But I wouldn't suggest that if you're married to anyone to actually pasteurize your own soil Unless you can have a place to the garage or or somewhere else because it does have a nice some Intense earth smell to it when it gets into your home Also, I if you're doing your potting media You can add fertilizer I would I would if you're brand new to this start with a slow release fertilizer and people always say well There's always numbers on there and the number is repertained to nitrogen phosphorus and potassium sometimes this but there's another number It might be sulfur or zinc. I would be more concerned with a bag that had three numbers though As far as for fertilizer Many times your your potting media for starting seeds will have some peat moss per light Which is the volcanic rock might have some shredded coconut core soil several other things I would think that if you're starting this and you had some slow release fertilizer in there and some little perlite Spangling peat moss mix some you'd be fine to to start with that But there though It's almost limitless what you could stick in there But remember it's some you're just starting these plants are not growing in it for the whole season Fertilizer say you didn't want to use a slow release fertilizer I would I would apply it when you watered once a week, but I would also dilute it to a fourth strength So if it says in the directions are fairly simple on these different types of fertilizer I would use a fourth strength. So it said one one scoop I would use a fourth of a scoop and only once a week and If you don't many times you can burn your your plants. They're very fragile They're tender and so that's how I do the start I don't really see a big difference personally in organic versus commercial fertilizer I go whatever is the cheapest and I've had good luck with that Here you can see the numbers as a point zero five, so that'd be the n or the nitrogen zero and zero so phosphorus of potassium I wouldn't use something like this for for when you're first starting with your plants and not really and fairly new to it basically it has nitrogen in it and And for for your plants grow through you're gonna want phosphorus of potassium also There's a number of different sources for fertilizer bat guano. I kind of like that that name but You know, I would use that as well as a commercial fertilizer I would just go by the cost myself But if you are organic or maybe a natural type person, you might want to Consider something like this. I guess And you can barely see the numbers, but if you see there are three numbers on there Versus a zero and so it's more important. I like a 10 10 10 or a 20 20 20 fertilizer, but many times you can't always get what you are looking for when you go to a to For example a store because there are so many possibilities of what can be out there for sale that they can't physically stock at all If you wanted a certain type you can always talk to your your Local nursery and say hey, can you order this and they usually do it? Potting media, you know, and I've seen some people's Recipes for for for potting media and I kind of cringe I like it real simple and I if you're just starting I would just buy it and then maybe do some experimenting later with this I wouldn't Suggest just making something. I've done that before and I've had a lot of problems with plants just dying from Black rot fungal diseases Sometimes insects would get in there. Sometimes they dry out. Sometimes they turn into little rocks So if you like that type of thing, it's up to you. Yes Light I think the best light obviously is the Sun There are some very good lights out there But it's really difficult to to beat the Sun as far as light and we're gonna touch on that That could be probably a month-long conversation, but I'll give you the nuts and bolts here in just a couple minutes The light the Sun obviously has the full color spectrum for plants Not always possible though. For example, if you have room in your basement and you want to grow us start some seeds You might want to try something else on LED lights. I like them a lot. They're very nice They last a long time, you know mercury And they don't really produce heat. I like that fluorescence they they tend to be okay They're not as long-lasting as the LEDs and I have broken several of them I'm quite clumsy and so I'll turn and I'll just I got to buy new bulbs And so now I just keep extras on hand But I am if you're clumsy I wouldn't recommend fluorescence. So I go with the LEDs Manicandescent bulbs you're never really going to get a decent plant. They're not much heat not enough light Are too much heat not enough light and they just don't work for growing plants Here's a very nice little setup if you look you can see the The little lights the top and we'll have a picture here, too I think it's the next one and If you notice well, maybe you can't see it But if you can these lights go up and down and so I could move these lights. These are LED lights You know an inch or two probably two inches away from the plant in case I forget so don't grow into there And be a big mess, but I would lower those down and as they grew I would raise them up these lights And it's a very nice Way of doing things. It's simple. It's very nice Ideally, this is what you want. You want your seed to sprout and Form roots and and many times if you look at the Plant on the right you think oh look at the leaves those aren't leaves Those are cotyledons that the plant is using for food and they are not leaves So when someone says true leaves usually the next set that looks like those are actually the first set of leaves So when you see this and someone says oh you should move them when they first can they get their first leaves These are not actually leaves. So you'd want to wait How we touched on fertilizer? One thing for when your plants start growing it's a good idea to keep them moist Some people will keep a spray bottle in there and spray their plants To keep the plants from the edges from turning brown many times people let the water Maybe set out away from kids and pets that will destroy it and wreck your floor when they tip it over But keep it away from them and then you could water your plants with that But you could also mist them up a couple times a day to keep them on to keep them going good The excess water home can you jump back there Bob? I'm sorry. I should The excess water that from the bottom of these trays I would just throw away I would not use that for water the plants again many times it has salts in it and It doesn't really help that type of thing and do not fertilize until the first two leaves there they are if you see the Cotyledon leaves or the false leaves on the on the lower part Those are not the leaves but you can see the top leaves actually look different these actually look like little tomato leaves so that's when I would first start start the fertilize with them and Then To plant them into a container or your garden you're gonna want to harden them off. Um, I Embarrassed to say but many times I forget to do this and I have to go with my backup tray because I Will take him's like yeah, I'm gonna get out there and plant and what happens is that they they fry right up And so for hardening off what I'll do is if it's a nice shady day I'll take them out maybe a week before I want to actually put them in the garden and I will Put them underneath a shrub or in the shade of a tree Water them really well and just leave them out maybe for an hour in the next day a couple hours And then third day three hours, and then you know They start to get tougher and tougher plants as as you go on with this and the reason being is that they're at such a Safe controlled environment. There's no wind. There's no bugs or insects There's really nothing to bother them. The temperature is about the same So if you do it gradually they will they will toughen up and then you can plant them with with more success Transplanting or not I would wait at least until the first or second set of leaves Obviously these little plants are not ready to transplant. So I would wait before I ask ask for questions, I personally Would start my tomatoes and peppers A couple days ago. I haven't yet, but I will be starting them soon. It's good time for that Certain things on as far as what not to plant early. It would be like sweet corn I would never do that. So there are other questions or did everyone fall asleep here? I'm gonna fall before we can I show these or show them. Yeah, let me stop. I can Okay Okay, you're good. I have a couple of props Here's a tray with some cells and this is just a small one that you can that you can purchase. They're very easy This this tray right here is just one one not a large cell, but just one cell and this is where I might Sprinkle a bunch of tomatoes or onion seeds in here peppers and get them going that way and then break them apart And I'd rip or cut the tray to the trades really and then recycle it Here's a coconut core A little bit sturdier than your than your peat moss and here's some some peat moss and Easily planted and there's a number of different types of these and they're similar in shape But they have the same purpose and I like trying different ones Everyone will have a different favorite. So Okay, are we ready for questions? Okay, let's get them going here Todd can you hear me? So I've gone down I go ahead Tom and I'll I'll pass this question on to Todd. All right. Um The first question is can you recommend some of the easiest flower seeds to start indoors? For seeds to now. I think of only tough things to start. Um, you know zinnias cosmos I love starting those. They're they're they're they're super easy. They're fun to grow I One thing I like to try and I don't have a lot of success with is impatience. I find it very difficult to grow Um, probably everybody else doesn't but I have a hard time with them um, some of your um Oh and assertions are fun and assertions are a nice one too because Kids can plant those, you know, if you have some of your really microscopic basically your seeds It's hard to hard to plant with that I like sunflowers, but I wouldn't start them inside Maybe if you had like a teddy bear or something like that, but I wouldn't your larger sunflower seeds. I wouldn't wouldn't start inside Uh pansies I've started inside snap dragons are really good You know, you know things like that, I guess Okay, how about some tips on planting seedlings near windows. Is there a certain direction of sunlight? Or some some obstacles we face? You have natural sunlight coming in through your window You might think south is the best Be careful though You want to kind of observe it during the day to see how hot it actually gets It might be just really nice and there's a lot of sun there I guess you'll have to kind of figure that out one thing too when you're growing next to a window We still have some cold temperatures that could come Some of you out in the state they're probably being buried by snow right now So if you have it next to the window, especially at night, um, they might actually get frostbite So I would keep that in mind as far as heat and cold Another thing is to the plants will grow toward the sun. And so if the light's coming in from there, um, Maybe every day, maybe every other or maybe every other day Um, I would just take and turn the tray completely around So the plant would have to go back and that would actually help toughen the plant up to Type of things. So that's what I would do Um, how about do you recommend having a fan on the seedlings when you grow them in the house? Fan on seedlings, you know, I've seen that at nurseries. Um You know, I would wait until they they were a little bit bigger before I thought of doing something like that The reason I would is um, you can dry them out quite quite easily. There isn't a lot of soil There and there is a lot of water In the soil. So when you turn the fan on they can um, Respire and dry right up. So if you're going to do that Um, say that the weather was terrible and you wanted to plant them out in your garden or in a pot And you wanted to start hardening them off. I would do a fan, but I went maybe like, um Oh, maybe five minutes just to see how they looked and then I would water really good and I would kind of You know, maybe a half hour would be fine. I really don't think it would. I think they would dry right up I suppose it depends on the strength of your fan So I would I would start off real cautious and then get a little more aggressive as time went on But um, if you dry them out and they die You have to start over or you're done, you know, so you don't want to kill them Todd, do you recommend warming mats and if so, when do you turn them off? Warming mats. Yeah, I like warming mats. Um What what I as far as turning them off I don't know. I what I do is I wait until I'll plant the seeds and I'll water them good and probably like You know a day or two later and I think there's different ways of doing this I'll turn on a warming mat at a low heat and just kind of make it nice and warm and snug and they'll start growing And um, as far as turning them off, I might turn them off at night I don't know. I just um, I don't have them on very long. I guess personally I've used them I've only left them on for maybe I don't know three hours a day four hours a day just to give them a little extra zip. I don't leave them on 24 hours um, it's it's like lights to um leaving lights on for your plants 24 hours Some plants um, really it doesn't doesn't help them at all and that that's another topic, but some plants um they're um More light really doesn't do much for them. So I guess I would um, I don't have an exact answer for you there But they're especially important for germination, right? The warming mats with germination Um, certain seeds and you can read actually on the package many times. Um, as far as germination It'll say must be 62 degrees Fahrenheit for germination, for example And then yeah, if you have a warming mat you can put it to that temperature and um, your germination will increase or actually will germinate Some things like for example corn, which isn't a good example for our starting seeds, but If it's too cold, they don't germinate and they rot in the soil. So yeah, um for germination a warming mat would be fantastic I would definitely know what you're doing Um So that if you're oh, I was five degrees off, you know, and so that you did head it on but not warm enough I would I would read up on your plant a little bit before you did before you Just turn them on and seeing what happened How about do you have a rule of thumb about wattage for the lights? Um What I do is I'll go to um, it used to be um, I would go to the oh, whatever box store and I would purchase um cool Cool fluorescent bulb and a warm fluorescent bulb and that would have the full color spectrum as far as um All the all the light colors that the plant needed to grow Um, my understanding is with the new led lights They're um, they're incorporated in there more. I'm still a little bit um Confused as to the exact perfect led light and the wattage and everything like that. That would be the best I I'm still still trying to figure it out. Which is the best? I do like them better than the fluorescence um So as far as an exact answer, I don't know How do you know when your plants are getting too much light or too little light? If they're getting a lot, uh, I'm assuming they can hear these questions Okay, if your plants are getting tall and lanky it's a good chance they could use a little more light You know, if you have um adjustable lights, you can lower them down closer to the plants that sometimes helps Um, you might need to add another another array of um another bulb in there somehow Um, so that you know in two little lights a similar type of thing too. They get kind of light green um Then Sickly looking it's like wow who grew that you're kind of embarrassed. Um, you know, if it's kind of a light green color I would say it's there's One one one symptom of that or that's one symptom of done enough light Do you have any any an opinion on miracle growth pie and soil? Um endorse anyone I've tried to get into um kickbacks from all these companies and no one was getting any money And so um, I can't endorse anyone until someone actually does you know, um, I've used a lot of different potting soils and um, I guess I would definitely go and talk with your local nursery if you're not sure I can't say anything about miracle growth or anything like that. Um, okay Just have to throw it out there for you time. Just maybe I'll get an endorsement deal for you someday Uh, how about uh, some flower seeds need light to germinate and others don't Do you have a rule of thumb about handling that when you start flower seeds? Basically for for any seeds I'll look on the package. Um, you know, there there's a reason they might say, um Sprinkle on top of the soil when you know danger of frost has passed When you're sprinkling for example on top of the soil you don't need Or in fact, it might be detrimental for the seed to be buried too deep or um cover or they won't germinate well Um, I've had good luck for example with with lettuce Just sprinkling it and then running water over the top just um, just so they get slightly dirty They do very well. Um, when I've dug a nice little trench of an inch deep and buried them and then watered them Um, I get one or two popping up. Um, many times your seed packets will say, um, you know, how deep to plant these I would go by that. Um, there's a lot of exceptions to the rules And if you follow the directions on the seed packets, um, they've been tried and chewed for for years and years decades and um That's what I would do. I I would do that Do you recommend that when we start seedlings that we cover them with plastic to help them germinate? Uh, some people have done that. Um, there's a there's a plethora of different types of little grow chambers you can purchase Um, my favorite is to buy a cake eat the cake and then cut holes in the bottom of the pan and put the plastic Homemade growth chamber over that came with the cake in the top looks pretty strange because not all of them are the same size But um pretty frugal this asks my wife who says I'm pretty cheap. Um, but that's what I you know, um That that does help. Yeah, it keeps the moisture in there It keeps um, for example, if you didn't have a warming pad that'd be very nice to keep the heat in there a little bit and help germinate So yeah, that that's a nice way of doing it Since you're a frugal gardener, would you uh recycle styrofoam cups for starting plants and then insert them into the garden? No, I went um, yeah, the styrofoam takes a long time to break down and um I basically wouldn't do that I would use more of like a maybe a peat moss or a coconut core or something that will actually break down Otherwise you go out to your garden and you've got You know what happened out here someone just buried their garbage in your garden Type of a look and you might not want that if you want people to visit you ever maybe I should do that I it might be a good idea for me Um, no, I wouldn't do that I wouldn't um, I wouldn't do that at all Uh, just a couple more questions here one is has to again do it the height of the lights over the plants um Do you have a recommended height? Can we assume that as the plants get taller that you should raise the distance? Uh between the plants and the lights Lights um start again. Oh I would leave the lights maybe two or three inches above the plants and as the plants grew I would just keep it right at that height um I have forgotten about them and then you get like a some type of a vining plant work its way into your light system What a mess So don't forget, but um, I would um, I would keep it two or three inches above and then They start going up to it and start touching and I'd raise it again two or three inches You know I put my hand on top of the plants And then I drop the lights as far down as possible And when my hand gets uncomfortably warm Then the plants get uncomfortably warm I use that as a guide put my hand over the plants And and feel for the plants That if you wanted to use your yourself as a a plant shield To get together burn a plant or wreck a plant that hurt myself, but um, everybody's got one thing So yeah, you got it. Okay one last thing here Todd How about uh, you know the the frost states an important consideration for when to start your transplants Do you know how can I find out when it's the last frost date for my county? You know, um and don um quite excellent um Yeah, and you and you have to remember to it. It's not exact So if it says for example, um looks like the last frost date is you know in the fall september 28th Well, maybe it'll be september 15th Maybe it'll be in october you really don't know. Um, so you have to give it some leeway when you um When you read these things, it's not okay tomorrow's the 28th. It's going to freeze not necessarily So you have to have um a little forgiveness when that when it's on there It's um, it's an average of when things have been that way So I would go to end on if you haven't never been on the end on site. It's quite remarkable Um, there's a there's a ton of information on all over the state and um Well worth your time. I would check that out and if it isn't um, Let me know and I'll and I'll apologize Okay, Todd. Thank you. All right. Uh, thank you Todd for your presentation. It was great. We can't wait to start our seeds