 Anyway, but I guess we'll get started then if I let me get my notes here And I'm using a braille display to kind of keep track of my notes. So I kind of what I'm doing here My phone time down on me Anyway to start as an introduction why get these notes one I'm sure make people we have her what we have about four or five people just kind of get an idea Okay Yeah, I'm just wanting to there we go either my phone timed outside and read find my notes again, but now we're good Yeah, okay, I just have to adjust this don't I okay? Now I had to use a portable microphone. Unfortunately like this Now I'll slow the speech down a little bit just so we get then I can start getting into and discussing it a bit more Okay, we'll try that. Don't give me very long wires work with us. Anyway, I Wanted to bring up the the idea here that the question being not can blind people use a Linux machine But I want the assumption to be that we do And so the one I wanted to demonstrate today is to move on and say here are the different some solutions that will Use that will use You know to make a Linux accessible so Basically What I wanted to start with is it what you really have is a need for Getting the the lineup of the output from a Linux machine In a form that we can hear it or see it so a blind person can Either use it with some kind of spoken output or somebody's low vision might see a bigger screen And so you can get bigger monitors or you can use magnifiers. There's some applications that will magnify the type You might even seen them or on some desktops. You can Bump the font size of however big you want and then as far as input is concerned the things we really want to be To be able to do accurately is that's be able to provide a method of input that you can use so for us was most likely a keyboard like Text text input or even selecting selecting Icons, you know the the pick list or whatever The one thing that does not work. Well The one thing that does not work well for Blank people using it is a Mouse and that's something I would discourage the most so many application developers will develop stuff for websites Where you pretty much have to use a mouse in order to work the thing and that's probably one thing that really messes us up And so the things I will demonstrate today really Use keyboard as input and they and for me they provide spoken output. I don't have any low vision aids up here I don't I don't have low vision myself, but there are products that do that There's three systems that I am familiar with and will discuss in order Probably in chronological order in which they came into existence and the first being Emax beak Are most of you familiar with Emax in here? Yeah, I'm glad there's some people still using it. I really wondered You know now Emax beak was developed. There's a fellow named TV Raman was a blind computer scientist in at Cornell University and he developed a Thing with Emax where he would modify each of the applications, you know He had the various extensions that run in Emax the various modes And he modified them to push spoken output for various relevant things so like you I was trying to see with my list here of the variable nodes that we do Sorry, there's very less by his answer junk in my heading notes. It's messing me up Oh, that's kind of slowing me down unfortunately And I guess what I'll do is I'll demonstrate some things in Emax and that's where I was setting up when I first came in here So hopefully this will be close enough of that speaker. That's still audible enough for you Now when I'm doing that right now I'm just in that scratch buffer so I could even type some stuff in here Just to start with like editing a file so if I You know I'm just typing here. I have a set up where it speaks each word I type so like this type we are Now I can just press up there on here that line of text And I can use the regular Emax keys you know the Holding down the alt key or the meta key and then pressing f for going forward or I go back Now the other I want to show you one thing we do here That's what's beginning of the line, but I'll go down here. I'll type in. I'll indent a little bit Now when I press up arrow to hear this line You'll notice something here. It'll say something in front of it. Okay. I was because of capital error I was supposed to tell me he's indented Okay, now I'll just read the line somebody's didn't indent for me. Okay, so I mean then it'll tell me how much is indented by See how that works Now Primarily what I could show you here There are some extra aspects, but I would have to tune up Emax speak some more to do it'll do syntax highlighting I'll use funny voice sounds difference in voices to try to show you what's in quotes and all At one point I finally suspended using that because it was too sing-songy for me And I got to turn it back on so it did in order demo it and so I didn't make that today But I think another thing I'd like to show you the diarid now remember that you know, that's the directory viewer in Emax, right? So for me, I can do control X followed by D Okay, and then if I just hit enter for that current direct my home directory Now when you press down the arrow key if I was just using a conventional screen reader to read this whole Line, I mean it would read the dash dash dash. Well, in fact, if I do it here I'll just speak up and do this other it would be something like There's too much stuff kind of hard to understand So if I go down arrow It just gives you the file name. It doesn't read all the sorry that long file names often listen to but in our ways and Unfortunately good enough homework to review but our commands we can use to go back and tell me what the Date this file was written without having to monkey around with it Now I could use I can cheat and use like my screen reader speak up I'll show you a little later. I could go back like this and That's the size of the file and so that's And I can spell letter by letter so February 7 But the the one thing and I like diarid in Emax's it's it's ability to Bash under log. I don't want to erase that file This is not bash RC and now that's a directory. I think I see so Now it goes a higher pitch like that that's because it's capital letters and that's a directory I can Make some audio icon to use that means it opened a folder. So now I'm in here Well, I can close that down and Just close that up. So part of those is using the normal commands you would use in diarid but with the Emax speak they've customized it enough to where it'll it'll Speak only the things that are relevant at the time And there are other hotkeys that I could use that would speak specific parts of a file or Let's see now I can Think some files I can erase I Know what I'll do. I'll just find something here in that bits folder I can tell you a slight deep parts are from the Emax remote I just want to create a couple files and demonstrate deleting them Okay, so I'll just create some like See Okay, back to you Mac sorry a little side shoulder, but now if I go on to this bits directory again Well, if I find those test folders I Got to No I created those files Okay, that's not I don't like when demos don't go well for Oh, I have to do that oh It renamed on discs I gotta learn more about how to do direct it because I forgot if you haven't refreshed the directory and I'll never mind that then I gotta move on. I also want to keep this from Dead No, this is where if I had enhanced voicing on it I would do a little more with the calendar but see now here if you were just using a conventional screen reader to screen It would be really hard to navigate calendar. I can use the arrow keys and move around So I'm just pressing arrow left arrow They go up by the week and they've you know the dire. I mean the usual calendar commands you can move around to the other Weeks you know months of the year and stuff But one of the favorites that I think has been worded nice and it works Well as let's say I want to go to a date later in the year So if I want to go to let's say July 26th, I can go You know GD say it's got the right year. So I'll just hit enter on it It took me right there, and there's more I can do with calendar in fact if I And I'm gonna go back to today's date Took right back today, and if I mark something in this entry, I should have a That's the D. Okay, and it puts it in another window. So if I Know See I put that in as an diary entry for today That's how we can do that Additional things I might say about Emacs speak just as other There are other applications as you know very many I don't have them currently running here on this machine, but I've you have used before VM you know for mail Dire it I mean I mean Gunos GNUS It's a news reader. I like almost liked it better for email and and again those are very well designed for Speech and what what we call them sometimes is when this individual when he develops these enabled apps you call them speech enabling So they take the Let's say the VM app for a mailer. He'll say Emacs speak dash VM and then I forget exactly how it's done But if you launch VM, I think it looks first for in your emacs dash or emacs speak dash VM And so it launches the speech enabled app and I think what it might do rather than Go right into the next little deal is maybe to see if anybody have any questions about emacs and how that Or this version emacs speak and how that might work any questions about it Yeah, he's still it's pretty much a one-man operation. But yeah, he's he's still add stuff He's got and there's a lot of things I haven't messed with yet really because I've been I use different platforms in terms of doing doing things on the Mac or whatever in iOS and all that the He's been enabling a bunch of stuff to deal with Like with Google the Google framework and all and so When I'm anxious eventually do see about I think he's got some Google Docs integration Which would be really interesting to try there in emacs and there's a way you can integrate Google calendar with this emacs calendar I tried it several years ago and I ran into a bunch of performance problems and gave up but That might even work better today on to try it again So I've tended to use emacs for specific things mainly editing I'm probably not taking advantage as much advantage of emacs speak as one can and some people practically live by it And you that's their only solution. I I just find I tend to use different solutions for different things and so I I may not utilize some of them fully. I'm sorry. What I have. Yeah, because I it does really well Especially like with the indentation. I should probably pull up a Some pearl or something somewhere here, you know, here's the indentation of the pearl code like when you went down through the if statements I have something that might help them Oh There's my director again. I was just doing controller I don't jump into the buffer is you know how it started speaking each one so you knew what's buffer you're in And I just left arrow once to get out of that selection that search highlight Okay, there's a podcatcher thing I worked on a long time ago me I'll just view the view the file Type C hyphen age for help common age for commands comma cube pound or 55 hyphen pound So the pound one thing pound of course that's the comment field so I'm just skipping passage the internet of these comments. I want to get to So you know these aren't indented yet And if I move down faster it interrupts. That's why I heard someone skipping because I was interrupting I'm just trying to get through this a little quicker Variables Okay, so now we got left brace so I know the next stuff should be intended You can see all the punctuation being spoken there that probably dragged you and you know And that's where sometimes I prefer using a braille display with some of that stuff because then I don't have to listen through it Or I speed that up. Anyway Subscription Yeah, they intended more So, yeah, I can do programming in this and then of course, uh, you know when you say but I go to another console or whatever Either run it or do whatever Yeah, that feature is available and I'm Sorry that I haven't I didn't have a chance this weekend. I was trying to Prepare some of this I didn't get chance to figure out how to remember to re-enable that because that's where it would change voice pitches and do things If for example, if you had stuff inside of quotes and everything, you know Equal system that that you know like oh, please I I got to where I couldn't stand it So I turned it off But I know that highlighting is handy and they try this best and I think it depends on the synthesizer that you use I'm using something called e-speak Has kind of a robotic sound to it. I know some of the people who affect tv-rom and I think he uses An older outdated version of a synthesizer that I think may work better with that syntax highlighting But I don't like installing old 32 bit code that's unsupported. So I don't use it, but There is some audio version audio ability to do that and certain audio sounds it'll be made like if there was And I'm sorry that can't demonstrate that very well right now, but Well, it's a whole different world. I mean jaws is a windows screen reader. So you're working in windows And it's basically a screener. I would be more apt to compare it with something we'll talk about later I hope I still have time is orca Which is a windows. It's a screen reader that Well, I know I'll just cheat here I want to see what time it was and I was going to look at my phone and the thing timed out There are a couple of things I can do here to get on but I see we're running out of time According to that is 210 or 215 Well, let's see. I mean if you're going to the hour and somebody using this room at 230 Yeah, so I gotta Yeah, that's why I gotta I gotta move So so e-max is interesting and there are different things to show there and I think it was I had a little more difficult time Configuring things and getting it going and apologize The next thing that occurred I want to move on to speak up then this is a kernel patch that was made uh a fellow named Kirk riser up in Is it University of Toronto or London, Ontario or somewhere? Developed uh originally and then I think there's a team of people that worked with him on it They'll speak up and it's basically Patched to the kernel that would intercept any output that would be sent to the screen and have it spoken And so that's what I was using a little bit over here in these consoles Plus it has a review function and everything but it's a kernel patch. It is now in the staging kernels I think it's still staging so it's available in the mainstream kernel and so if you get a like a Arch Linux disk or Ubuntu or something if they haven't Modified the kernel any then the speak up is there and just got to load the right modules for it So what I'll do there now and I'm here now So what I'm going to demonstrate is some simple things to start with where all does enter a command and it'll speak the output Okay, I'm going to go back to this other Oh, well, I could go here So if I wanted to list this directory, of course, it would be like this Now if that's too fast, I can slow it down some Is that fast enough or is that slow enough for people or are they Now I'm going to go on and review that what I just heard because all that was a bunch of you know It was a directory listening a long listening So I can use arrow keys to review this part of the screen It's another aspect I'll demonstrate is the reviewing of it So I can hold down the caps lock key the insert key and I can go up a line Or if I want to hear just hear the file names, I just go to the right end of the line space test two Okay, there's that test two file I was trying to find and see if I go up arrow like You know another line or in this review file I'm just reviewing and I understand that doesn't show any kind of visual cursor when I do this So I just press that you know a key here to speak the current word I'm under and that's why I interrupted the others Otherwise you could hear this You see so now I can go on up the The list there and I won't Now if I want to delete test one Of course, you know when you lean up so you won't get any kind of well I can do it with it with and without a prompt if I read let's say I delete test one. I just do rm See no prompt or no warning because I didn't put any parameters on now if I do rm Uh test two Is it prompting you and you either heard the question? I don't have to repeat it or at least I understood it Did anybody understand that prompt okay? And I'll just type you know why why Okay, those files are gone and I'm going to change the directory So it speaks to read the prompt to you Now there's some things where we can do highlight uh some Like highlight track and that's what I was starting to do earlier when I was messing with the Also mixer, so if I go don't do that as root, but if I go into also mixer I'll just interrupt speech. I just quieted it. Let's see. I think I put highlight tracking on No That's not Okay, it's a pretty tattery screen, but if I go over here to There highlight tracking I should have Oh Rated That's not a very good example, I thought that would work the one that does was with that Wi-Fi I'll do highlight tracking again What happened here Now I can also go up and just review that list to see if it populated sometimes I don't think it populates Let me just review that I got stuff there It must be like since I'm connected to my iPhone I'm only seeing one entry there. It's not a very good demo of it. Well Well, anyway, this shows I'm connected by iPhone, but it didn't Well, that's yeah, it's highlight tracking. I'm trying to think what else I should demonstrate and speak up The thing was speak up There's about as close as things you might when you're asking about jaws or something Although I don't consider the text console. I think more of this is like the dust screen readers. We had of old like Vocalize or uh, I think jaws had a Think to add a version for DOS also The jaws is well known for those that aren't maybe totally from our screen readers Freedom scientific has done gone out of their way to make make them the biggest Hitter in the game and I don't necessarily think they're the best screen reader, but they seem to Twist a lot of market share and you know Does anyone have any questions about speak up? It's a little more I think just straightforward and it displays What's on the kernel and you can have some input for reviewing the only thing I might comment on that's that Uh Some people have been doing a lot of debate lately about any further development speak up because frankly a lot hasn't been going on but If you want to do more advanced things like Selected parts of the screen to be spoken and this kind of thing Might be a lot easier to write a user space screen reader or user space screen reader running it as an application and foreground instead of a kernel And so that that area has been discussed in there. I guess there's a couple screen readers out there They've been developed to run in the foreground like that I'm not sure how much Work is being done on them. I don't I've never tried them But that would probably give hands a little more uh Flexible output on the on the console for example Might there be any questions on this? If not, I'll move to the gnomes part. It's probably more interesting to some folks I guess hearing none I'm going to move on to the third one Okay, why don't I have any speech now? This is not what I wanted Is anything showing on the screen for you guys? Ever since they went to a gnomes shell, I think things are yeah, I have to get into one of these other I tend to like to go here I even customize or adjusted gnomes shell options so I could have a written old-fashioned best hop again now this is orca at the screen reader that was uh Originally, I'm sure where it's Exactly beginnings were but sun micro systems had an accessibility office and they were doing a lot of development after oracle bought Sun out then They canned most of the people who worked in the accessibility office there and so that Almost we were afraid it was going to wreck this project But uh, there's just another people that kind of took on the lead development in fact, uh This is jone marie diggs a woman that used to teach accessibility software at the carol institute blind in uh, boston Took upon herself learned python and I mean here's somebody that was a trainer or teacher before I don't think she ever programmed to my knowledge in her life and uh This started back in about Well shortly around the time of that acquisition. She might have been working a little bit with Willy walker before he left, but there's probably like 2009 maybe I'm trying to forget when oracle bought sun but From that point on she's taken on a lot of the the lead development of Orca and the changes and fixing bugs and things and has gotten far enough in the show the attestament of python I guess because Orca is written in python mostly and it She's actually figured out how to I mean Access all these low level exposures that from firefox for example I've had a lot of bugs in firefox that affect What is exposed to the screen reader and you know, she's actually been digging into this heavy metal stuff. That's pretty amazing I don't know. So anyway the background of it But right now i'm sitting at In a typical nautilus window or if you're on a mac, it would have been a finder window Now again, it's right now. I'm just basically using the arrow keys And this would be like if you were like somebody mentioned jaws earlier It would be like if you're in windows in the windows explorer and using the arrow keys to move around in uh You know using jaws. So if I Move down using down arrow here. I'll go through this What's the matter we're missing something? Oh, it's not at all Oh boy, I don't know how to do that I I used to be Now I don't have a shows on my laptop in front of me or not. I'm totally oblivious. Something wants to look Oh, wow, I'm sorry that That's all right. It's one of the things we should have set up ahead of time and sorry about that. Oh, well Okay, what did you do? I haven't done anything yet. Oh, oh, let me Yeah, I wonder that What Yeah, sometimes you get in there's one thing there's something called overview window Like I just shows up sometimes and and I lose speech sometimes in there and it's something I've not been able to This year's is an English. I'm not seeing a uh Thing to say mirror Wait, maybe arrange combined I thought I was gonna have to do something with that function f2 or something, but that's not Not wanting to uh Mirror Yeah, don't have to do something So you guys were able to see the console on enat but not the Okay, what do you do so I can know for future What do you do? Okay Okay, so let me go ahead and close this out of your way. Oh Okay, I'm gonna hey, well, yeah, thanks Well, thank you for pointing it out to me because I wouldn't uh Yeah, I wouldn't know either I'm gonna go into the orca settings because I can slow down speech and that'll be one of the things that I was trying to show is Dialogs so, you know, you know my windows dialogues and things So to Now this is I'll hopefully get to speech right away. You know, let's slow it down But you see right now we're in a tab. It's a tab one of eight and it's a screen reader preferences and And that's probably what I want It's either voice or speech. I think it's speech See if we're both radio button one or two Well, I have to go to voice Okay, these are nothing to a speech rate, let me go back Here we are Right now it's 80. I got 80. I think it's a range like 80 of zero to 100 or something Yeah, that's a little better in that now Okay So now if I go back here and I'm still in this dialogue so I'm just pressing tab so So far in these you don't have to do any like special keys or keystrokes like you did in emacs or wherever You know, I don't really have to do that much screen reviewing So you can hear all that So it tells you the status of the state of a checkbox Yep, I'm just going to close it. I don't need to go for all the other tabs and stuff in there Oh, I just show you that like here See tab two of eight because there's a tab control. It's like in windows. They would have called our tab control anyway It's configuring braille displays and stuff So these are different options for orca we're going to tell it how to pronounce stuff or to Use punctuation or hide punctuation whatever And that has to do with some colors. So if you go in there and turn certain things on and they'll speak and tell you what I think that's what it does in there I it again with speech sometimes it gets too verbose of it starts telling you the color of every little thing on there But you could turn it on if you're trying to Verify some stuff you're doing like in a document or something. Okay. What happened here now How can I tap? Oh, I don't key I'll suppress right key, you know it. I think if I press control tab, hold on So when I left it there with a lower speak trait, but sorry Didn't mean to do that Yeah, someone's files along I'm gonna see what the Director I could go into I'll use this file to open And I can interrupt speeches like the other because I still hear but it does describe the file on stuff to you so that Is Okay, that's an odf document or off open office document so I can show another app in here So I should be able to hit enter on this key in it on this file It should open open office for me or we rough as doc A writer I should say Taking its time though I've actually been having some problems with LibreOffice sometimes locking up when I've tried to open certain spreadsheets And I hope that's not happening with this writer doc Okay, it looks like we're good No What's going on here? See I'm just arrowing down this and It looks like it's fed up on me too. I guess man the rate must be set in per application I didn't think it was Let me slow speech down on that one if I can Yeah, it's there where it should be So why did it go For some reasons LibreOffice is making it go faster. I'm unless I've got a Thing set in there. Let's see. I can go into the application specific settings Just stuff like this that makes me lose a lot of time I just think I just insert control space Yeah I don't think they're here to do it by default I can arrow around in this thing too Kind of like the other editors and things Okay, I didn't do much in this document. I thought I had more stuff in it See and I can press control Q to get out of it You can see here the input we're using a lot of keystrokes. I don't use a mouse I don't use this touchpad on here ever And probably if I want to get into firefox because that's where I think probably more interesting with the web You know windows anyway, you're gonna But I'll and I have a shortcut key on my machino wants firefox I'm kpd document to mark 2010 three level one. Okay, there's no blog I have that I've done much with forever. I'm gonna I'm gonna go to a site that I'm familiar with I'll just go by hand So again, I haven't set to speak on words so soon they hit a character then it You know Don't want to use this because I want to demonstrate tables and how they've done they've done a pretty good job of some bus routes so I got to find uh The combo boxes to get to the facebook link. Oh the other thing now and I should explain a little bit if I can quickly You can use the arrow keys to move around the page and it will save. It's a link or not You'll see youtube and then link RSS link now these seem to be on one line one link per line or something See now like here it said submit query push button if I press tab That's a push button. But if I go back Okay, it's an entry and a focus mode that means I'm now in An edit field where I could type because before this Submit query push button browse mode. Okay. Now it says browse mode and here I can do things like The one letter navigation will jump you around the page. So if I want to go to a heading I can type the letter h So that's another heading And it gives you the heading level numbers on it because you know you can have up to six heading levels See you went to heading level three So I'm going to go back to this trip planner Level I hope I have time Oh run it over already somebody out there waiting to come in here. Oh really nobody's using this room there. Okay Good. Well, I'll take a little time unless you all want to do something else I want to try and show a table here. So let's almost see if I get there quickly enough Press entry from selected Destination leave combo box one or three arrivals are leaving date entry Arrivals are leaving time entry. So I'm just pressing tab here go things in there's combo boxes in the bush button Browse mode hash entry focus mode. Somebody's where I was able to just say go to the roots Rotating transit art series partnership with infodox link Http Oh, that's a lookup stop numbers I'm trying to remember how I got into those tables they make you want they make you want they want to make you use this The trip planner thing we had to put in everything and I just want to look up a bus table Alimetro On another I can jump from link to link by pressing k and shift k Way beyond anything I want so I can shift k Board of direct service changes online tools here in shop on 19th power radio Lateral panel image link new right kid panel image link rotating transit I'll click here if you do not know the full trip planner link google transit So I just don't from link to link to link you can also go to like combo box itself. I tap the letter c I believe Oh, maybe this is it let's see Push button Selected radio button next right link google transit link trip planner link Zero one combo box. Oh, it's time. I thought it was type Okay, I want focus mode so I can arrow down to this thing I thought I remembered how to do this get into those tables directly I have to find something else, but the thing we're doing tables what I wanted to demonstrate and I'm sorry I can't right now that wasting everybody's time Is that you then have arrow navigate you can use you hold down like the shift in the case of oracle You hold down the shift and alt keys and then you can use the arrow keys and you'll navigate around in a site of a table And you can hear the rows and columns and then if the headers are properly marked You'll even hear the heading of each column as you go by That's why I wanted to demonstrate that I'm not finding it very easy when I get there Tables no more tables. Okay, so now tables here time zero one combo box one zero zero combo box two or three combo box three or three Departing after selected rate. So you don't want to force you into entering times and dates and then they can tell you a root I didn't want that time zero one combo box one thousand zero zero combo box destination link combo box one of three That's what I was hoping for select root type It won't work. It's not working What's that? Yeah, I love that what Hans told me about that one. I use it. No, I've used this website and I Demonstrate I did this the other day and that's why it's making me so mad that I can't Huh, I don't know I'm thinking about that the thing was before I would say you could choose a Type like trains or trains or a bus or local buses and that's what I can't seem to find And once it did that and I don't think it was this was full trip planner, but so I was trying to not get into that trip planner thing I can't seem to find any other way to You do not know your stop right double angle bracket link that's a stop ID I don't want to get next right push button We'll slash leaving time entry focus mode Maybe that one. I don't know. That's too fast Finished loading valymetro trip plan No more combo boxes Newfound media center link employment link event calendar No more headings Yeah, I'll start to find it. Let's see newfound media center employment event calendar Mobile text only link valymetro phoenix public transportation zone link plan in your trip link trip planner next right link system map link root schedules and maps link Maybe that one. Yeah, please wait document frame finished loading valymetro bus route No boxes Twitter youtube link root schedules and maps heading to from the menu on the left to see schedules and maps for valymetro rail valymetro Link bus service local and express bus service neighborhood circulators and rural Tips about schedules heading level three Nope. Nope. Nope. No Purchase parallel route rapid service link express service local limited stop service link bus routes link Loading please wait Finished loading valymetro local bus routes about valymetro bus routes heading level one So you're now in type h It took me right to the buster cycle for all the other noise Select a route heading level two. Yeah Okay, I'm at a table. Okay, so I'm gonna go to 72 72 72 72 72 Link link, okay Now we can look at the limited bus service for sunday there because I'll probably look at today's thing. So once it loads the 75 72 PDF oh god, no I hope not No Link Okay, I want to view it not PDF Yeah, that looks what I want Now you'll notice across the top here and I'm using the table navigation keys So hold down the left and with orca anyway, hold down the shift and alt keys and then I use the arrow keys You're gonna keep hearing stop number so and so it's kind of annoying but that's part of the heading Rural and ray another reason I like to speed this stuff up Okay, that's near where my home is my permanent home anyway when I'm back home So let's say I'm at rural and southern I want to go down and I can read the times for that day or I think it's today's schedule And I'll just press down arrow So it tells you the row column numbers now if I just hear the time and I don't want to hear the row and column number I can just interrupt it Okay, 31 looks like a half hourly schedule on sunday. It's pretty remarkable I think for public transit these days on a sunday But let's say now I want to go up to the street then I can press right arrow up that from this time point See to Tempe transit center, of course, it's a temp, but that's because they don't know how to say tempi But then if I press right arrow, just keep hearing the times So I know that I'll get there and I know seven so, I mean it's a practical use of table navigation and I remember when the first got on the web using screen readers, especially like in windows and when they didn't have table navigation like this It would have been impossible to navigate one of these Because you need that to read line by line by line or link by link and you know So this is how tables navigate and it's the one thing I wanted to show you in you know Firefox Not enough really have time to go into like thunderbird. It's a male client be much similar kind of thing But I mean up and down a pink a pick list and open the messages you want to hear But Does anyone have any questions about like orca and gnome? I know I kind of glossed through this fairly quickly, but Right Basically, that's orca and what happens is firefox exposes Some of this is an amateur because I don't know exactly Firefox knows what tables and and this is why semantic markup is so important Because if somebody doesn't put tables in there if they just lay that stuff out in some way and you know physically made it Line up maybe by using the pre anchor or something on the pre tag, you know html This wouldn't work, but yeah, so orca is really providing the one letter navigation Some people call it quick nav quick navigation depends on whose your product you're using apple does it to with the voiceover and Inhabitant jobs and most of those have now some version you know variant of it that Pretty much worked the same way So I got tight I typed the letter t and I said take me to the nearest table Or the first table and I could press t again if there was a second table it would have gone to it But yeah, that's that's orca providing that One letter navigation of the objects that firefox has exposed through semantic markup to say Yeah, here's the headings and here's the buttons and Whatever, so it's important for the the browser has to expose that information or make it available in a So sort of object model, I guess, but Should I just say there's no there's no modification to firefox to make this To make it special for us. I mean, it's the mainstream version of firefox Is this is they've they've had to expose the right information to make sure that stuff is properly marked up I mean, amazingly enough with orca you can actually get into the like all clickables I don't have a website right handy. I can confirm most You know where you have those fake links you've probably seen them or you might not you might just click on them With a mouse and not think anything about it, but the screen reader will say it's clickable But it's not necessarily a link or a button You know, so it's a void control probably a javascript void controller or something and you you know the And so we can sometimes route mouse to it. Now, let's see if I can do that here. Sometimes this doesn't work because of the firefox bug Let's see on it 10th trance center 848 a.m. Road 12 column 6. It is one thing I can try and bring up real quick if this will work There is a bug in firefox in fact I complained about recently where sometimes you can't route the mouse to it But you can route the pointer to it if I use some keys. It's kind of like a review What we did in speak up I'm not in the right place for some reason didn't put it where I wanted but And there's not a clickable so I don't want to do anything here, but Oh, there is a push button there But now if I wanted I could just press the key and it would simulate a mouse movement So I'd be like pressing a left click with the mouse or touchpad or whatever Now in other cases I think there's parts of websites where that's supposed to work better and that's the one thing I have had We've had some trouble with and I was it was noted that it was a bug in Firefox that I think that is not the screen isn't scrolling for the internal buffer or whatever they're using And I'm sounding kind of wishy-washy there, but I don't exactly know Because you probably saw the screen as I was scrolling down it and saw those whole this route on tempi and everything, but For some reason routing the mouse pointer to it with these screen or with the orca commands in there Isn't wasn't putting in the right spot But when those do work you can click those clickables and you know, they're kind of a In fact, I don't know if we have any clickables on this site Okay, there's only one button on the page it said you know what said wrapping the top a minute, you know going back up to where the There's only one button on the page apparently So anything else on it? I know firefox is probably the most interesting part of this whole thing and you know And obviously depends on how people code a web page. How good this experience will be Any further questions on it? sorry, I've uh Been working on teaching myself python does reading some books on it and stuff because I'd like to learn it because I want To contribute to this project and that's one of the reasons one of the motives been and I've done with stuff with pearl before And python is interesting. So yeah, I'd like to I just haven't Got quite involved just like want to learn droopal too. So Between the day job and they come home and say okay an hour and I what do you what do you spend it? or whatever Funnest stuff to learn out there. That's for sure. I don't know. I think it depends on the environment you're editing and I mean as a day job person I've worked with cobalt, but I usually use a window screen reader and that sort of setup but And using a ISPF, you know on the mainframe a laugh But but here as long as you can code in text like You know pearl ruby, whatever. I don't I just don't know some of the language I know pearl and pearl and python have been learning and I did some stuff and see a long time ago. In fact, a long time ago. I actually wrote a What was that for for a DOS screen? I think it was for a DOS screen reader. I actually wrote a synthesizer driver for it was kind of fun But it was a long time ago But I mean any language that has you know meaningful text and if you use an editor like I like emacs for that sort of thing because of the indentation and And of course it does self-correcting almost like an idea where if you leave out a parenthesis, it'll tell you it's missing I should have demonstrated I should have demonstrated that You didn't think about that Yeah, that's what I mean to do. So I think I want to do that I will make to make some closing comments just saying that For some of the stuff to make this all happen to make this work as well as like what you're seeing today is And I touched on it already a little bit developers need to use standard controls Standard tools, you know standard widget libraries and things don't be acute with your custom widgets and whatever One of these graphical things will work pretty well just out of the box if you use standard stuff Same thing web design But I think you know this stuff's come a long ways and it has some bugs and different things but The progress has been made in the last say 10 or 15 years in these areas has really made a difference with accessibility of the linux platform and You know it rivals windows and mac or any of them Thank you for your time I'll shut this up Yeah, that yeah, that would be really good Well, it's like I've had a problem with the the app last night with southwest airlines where I was trying to Save a boarding pass Now they've improved the app to make some changes but yet when I got to the point where it's a save into Passbook and whatever all of a sudden Had these four links now and none of them worked And I was on the phone like several hours fighting trying to just try and get through to a human lesson say Well, how can I save this boarding pass so I can use it tonight when I go home? And uh, yeah, that was a circus that that used to work