 to everybody, we will start slowly. Welcome to this webinar entitled cultural mobility in European outermost region and overseas country and territories. My name is Marie Le Sour and I work for On The Move. And I will start with some technicalities. I guess most of you are used to them, but it's also important to repeat them. So first of all, if you do not speak, please remain on mute so that also this meeting room can remain quiet and that we can hear you know the speaker and the moderator speaking. Then you can, this webinar will be in English, but you can, if you wish, use the transcription that is available if you click at the bottom right of your screen. Usually there is a sign which is called the icon called CC and you can use the live transcription that may help you as well to make the understanding better. And as you have maybe noticed, this webinar is recorded because we plan also to make it available for future viewing and also because this web stream right now in partnership with our collaborator and member per round. So I guess it's all good now with the technicalities. Most of the people are in the room. Maybe some people will come a little bit later. Thanks to the focus, I will say of this webinar, we have people coming from different time zones. So morning, afternoon, evening. So once again, welcome to everybody. Hello. So my name is Marie-Losour and I work for On The Move. And together with my colleague, Johan Flock and Tania Sanchez, we are very happy to welcome you to this webinar. I will give a few words very quickly about On The Move in case you don't know about the organization. So On The Move is a mobility information network and we gather more than 60 member organizations and individuals in Europe, but also internationally in more than 25 countries. And our main mission is to sign post free, updated and regular mobility opportunities for artists and cultural professionals in all disciplines, but also to advocate for a fairer and more sustainable cultural mobility. We implement a multi annual program, which is co-founded by the European Union. And this webinar is taking place part of this program. And this is the first webinar that we are organizing this year. There will be a second webinar at the end of the year. And for this first one, we are working in partnership with the partner of the EU-funded Archipel projects that will be presented later. And this project is funded by the European Union and is led by the Institut Francais. Before I pass the word to our partner for this event, I would like to recall three main objectives of this webinar. I would say of this series of webinars in general and of this particular webinar. The first objective is really to try as much as possible to touch on less visible and less discuss issue related to mobility. And that's why I will focus this time to focus on European outermost region and overseas country and territories. The second one is very much as much as possible to live the world and to have professional and artists being connected to this particular country, region and territories or being based there. And so that they can share with them trends, burning issues and needs related to cultural mobility in this region. So if we take the example of today, it can be related to their sense of belonging to Europe, the effect of the pandemic, the way also like to rethink post-colonial artistic practices based also on the very context. And last but not least, this the idea is also not to do a kind of standalone type of event, but also to further share the learning of this webinar. So that means that the video will be accessible afterwards on all the website partner and also like with our collaborator around. And we would like as well very much to share resources that will be signed posted also like during this event and also to share reflection idea that can help us as well be it on the move and all the partner you know and professional gathered today to help us also to reshape to rethink of far away far away sorry to support cultural mobility which can also include a greater diversity of artists and cultural professionals. So that's it now for my introduction. And without further ado, I would like to pass the word to Madina Renu who is the project leader of Archipel.eu project at the Institut Français. Madina, the word is to you. Thank you so much, Marie. I would like to start my intervention by introducing Archipel.eu. So Archipel.eu is a European Union co-founded pilot project, as you say, providing funding opportunities for artists and cultural organization coming from the nine autonomous regions of the European Union and also from the 13 overseas countries and territories. Taking into account the specific context and needs of the cultural and creative sectors of these territories, the consortium of three institutions developed Archipel.eu. The Institut Français located in Paris who is leading the program, the Association of Overseas Countries and Territories, OCTA, located in Brussels and the Atlantic Cultural Promotion Agency, APCA, located in Madeira. Archipel.eu aims to test over 24 months a mechanism to provide direct financial support to cultural professional artists, groups of artists, but also organization that are all located in any of these territories. We are working in collaboration with a group of 10 associated partners, including networks such as, of course, on the move, Relay Culture Europe or UNIC for instance. We also have associated partners based in the ORs and the OCTs and we also have two universities as associated partners. At the end of the 24 months period, we will present a report to the European Commission including the outcomes of the pilot projects and also the recommendation, especially regarding mobility issues for artists and professional in the cultural field. The fact that mobility is a key component of this pilot project is something that we do have in common with UnderMove. This is why I would like to thank UnderMove for inviting Archipel.eu to partner up for this webinar. With Archipel.eu's team, we have organized several webinars since the launch of the program. Although for the moment, the aim of the webinar was to introduce or call for projects. So this is extremely useful to be part of another type of webinar in which we can hear some testimonies of artists that will definitely give us some inputs and ideas regarding mobility challenges. Since the launch event of Archipel.eu last October, we have also launched four calls for projects and the cultural mobility is at the center of three of our calls. So let me just introduce the calls very briefly. In the framework of the fund called LaCollectionArchipel.eu, we are going to finance 15 projects. LaCollectionArchipel.eu aims to support the dissemination of exhibitions, shows, artistic proposals in order to promote the creativity of these territories. We have a budget of 150,000 euros dedicated for this specific fund and the project can be supported up to 20,000 euros. We are now supporting structure in order to help them to strengthen their international strategy. So at the moment, we are asking ourselves one question, where do you want to go? And it's very interesting to see in terms of mobilities that there are different trajectories. For instance, there is a strong interest to connect with countries and islands nearby. This is the case for Madeira, Canarias and Essardes. Another example is from the French OR such as Martinique Guadalupe LaRéunion. We can also notice that there is a need to strengthen the connection with the African continents. This is the case for LaCollection. We have another fund called Cultural Network and CooperationArchipel.eu. This call is currently open and the applicant can submit their proposal until the 1st of July. The aim of this fund is to promote exchange between the autonomous region, the overseas countries and territories, and the European Union. We have dedicated a budget of 150,000 euros for this multibillion-server plenary fund. We also have another fund called Mobilities, MobilitiesFoundArchipel.eu. This is the only call that is for individuals, artists, group of artists and also professionals for the cultural field. This fund supports the physical and virtual as well mobility of cultural sectors and we have allocated a budget of 100,000 euros for this call. The call is open until December 2022. This is just to give you an idea of the type of project that we are supporting. While implementing this experimental project, we are taking into consideration the differences of context between ORs and OCTs and between each territory. We have noticed a major difference of context between opportunities that are provided to artists located, for instance, in the French ORs and artists located in Spanish or Portuguese ORs or even in the Dutch Caribbean, for instance. This is why it is important for us to see where there is a need and where we can make a difference. This is why I look forward to hearing from artists coming from Madera, from also the OCTs, such as the Dutch Caribbean or Greenland, and speaking about OCTs, I would like to take this opportunity to give the floor to Ellen Morales from OCTa, who is working with me on the implementation of archipel.eu. Thank you, everyone, and have a nice day. Thank you so much, Madina. Well, my name is Ellen Morales and I'm a culture advisor in charge of coordinating the archipel.eu project at the overseas countries and territories level at OCTa, which is one of the archipels that EU consortium members, as Madina just mentioned. Before I try to give a quick glance at the cultural mobility environment in the OCTs, I would like, if you agree, to give you a few words on OCTa. Funded by its 13 members, which are the 13 OCTs associated to Denmark, France, and the Netherlands, and co-funded by the EU, OCTa serves as a platform through which the OCTs realize their common goal by working collectively through cooperation, policy dialogue, the promotion of common positions, and partnerships for the sustainable development of the OCTs. Culture, notably embodied in the archipel.eu project, is a key dimension of OCTa's strategy for 21-27, as foreseen in its strategic pillar three on youth, culture, and education. Cultural mobility in the OCTs is both an opportunity and a challenge for artists, creators, and cultural professionals. An opportunity first, as mobility is, in Teralia, a way to disseminate and promote the local culture and artistic scene, and to connect the many artistic and cultural actors with their peers, both in other European overseas or continent, as well as within their geographical regions with the international neighbors. It is also a challenge. Because of this geographical situation of the OCTs, which are islands, and the specific statues of the OCTs, they are citizens. Their citizens are European, although the islands are not part of the EU. Local artists and cultural professionals face difficulties to find funding and support for their mobility project, in addition to facing expensive travel costs. From my exchange with archipel.eu applicants, I've also noticed that following the global pandemic, individual artists are focusing on implementing local projects rather than envisaging themselves in international contexts. Not to mention, of course, that new travel regulations have also complicated the mobility process. So this is this first glance about the OCTs and the mobility opportunities and challenges in those territories. And now giving the floor to my colleague Elena. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Elena Munishosa. In the same way as my consortium colleagues have done, I would also like to start by greeting and thanking the amazing OCTs for all the hard work and organization while preparing this very interesting webinar event on mobility. I am the team leader for the archipel.eu project on behalf of APCAN, the agency for the promotion of the Atlantic culture. Here with us in the audience, and also representing APCAN, our my two colleagues, Sonia Marek, the APCAS project manager, and Githi Zoveta, social media manager. As part of the archipel.eu project consortium, one of our main missions is to oversee the communication efforts, ensuring the digital presence and visibility. APCAN is a non-profit organization based in the beautiful Medea island since 2005, with the purpose of contributing for the Atlantic island culture, knowledge, and arts development throughout the widest geographical area possible. So being an organization based in an outermost region, an OR, I could not refrain from mentioning that we get to witness and see firsthand the inherent issues of cultural isolation of an island and sometimes the struggle that the cultural sector has to face on mobility matters. Therefore, the relevance of having a discussion on the subject of international artistic and cultural mobility. So thank you everyone for your presence and have a nice webinar. Thank you. Thank you very much Helena, Helen, and Malina for this introduction. And before I pass the word to Claire, Claire Hosley Wilson will be the moderator of this session. I would like, we wanted to keep this meeting room spirit also to make it a bit more you know like connecting people than a webinar type of format. But now during the time of the session of the meeting, we may ask you also maybe to turn off your camera so that we can really see our moderator Claire and also our speakers, Suzanne, Sarah, and Shirley. And so I will kindly ask you that. And after, of course, you can ask also any question you may have in the chat and we will collect them. So thank you very much. And Claire, the word is to you. Thank you. And thank you for all the partners for enabling such an interesting webinar today. So my name is Claire Wilson and for the visually impaired, I'm a female in my 30s of medium build wearing glasses and medium brown hair. And I'm the facilitator for today's session. So I'll just briefly share my screen so we can have a look at where we're going today in this webinar. So we've got an example today of the European outermost region, which is the Madeira Islands. And it's one of two autonomous regions of Portugal. It's an archipelago situated in the North Atlantic Ocean. It's north of the Canary Islands and about 500 kilometers west of Morocco. And so we'll be traveling here today with Sarah Andrell, who was born in Funchal in Madeira Islands. And she's a dancer and a choreographer interested in meditative and ecstatic practices in and her works are often developed in relation to natural environments and particular ecosystems. So we've also got two examples of overseas countries and territories, one of which is Curaçao in the Dutch Caribbean. And the Dutch Caribbean is comprises of constituent countries and special municipalities of the Netherlands. And they're spread over two distinct areas in the Caribbean, one closer to Venezuela and one closer to Puerto Rico. And so we're traveling here today with Cheryl Emanuelsen, who is a filmmaker and a visual artist based in the Dutch Caribbean. And in addition to her creative practice, she also has founded Uniart, which is an artist run foundation that enhances the visibility and development of emerging professional artists in the region. And the other area we're traveling to today is Greenland, which is an island nation located in the Arctic and Atlantic Oceans. And it's the world's largest island and is one of three constituent countries that form the United, the Kingdom of Denmark, along with Denmark and the Faroe Islands. And we're traveling here today with Suzanne Andreessen, who is the artistic director of the National Theatre of Greenland. And she works as a dramaturg and a teacher at the National Acting School of Greenland. So she has extensive experience in the cultural sector in the Nordic and Arctic regions. So I'll just go back, go back to the lovely faces of our speakers. So today, what we're interested in exploring is what it means to be a creative practitioner in these European out of most regions and overseas countries and territories. What are the flows that are present? What are the relationships both within the regions and between the regions and Europe? And kind of questioning what does international mobility mean in these contexts? So we'll look at a few of the themes such as sustainable travel, travelling through fragile ecosystems, potentially the impact of tourism and maybe how COVID has changed these mobilites and perhaps opened up opportunities. And I guess it would be interesting to work towards some recommendations on how to support mobility in these regions. What needs to change? What's going well? What's working? So I'd like to jump right in with discussions, but perhaps starting with a relatively open question by way of introduction to these regions by asking each of our speakers, what are the realities and challenges of mobility from your perspective? So Suzanne, would you like to kick it off by naming a few of the specific challenges in the Greenland context? Sure. Thank you. Just a brief introduction. I'm Suzanne and you already presented me, but I'm a female in my 40s, short curly hair wearing glasses and a bright blue shirt. And I thank you so much for this. In Greenland, we sort of were in a special position between we were very close to the Nordic countries. It's a close collaborator. And I often say, this is where the money is because there is funding for Nordic projects. And we also have access to those funds. And we have sort of one leg there also because of our close connection with Denmark. But then our closest neighbour is actually Canada. So that's on the other leg is there. And since we're connected to all the Inuit areas that goes across Canada, Alaska, and a small part of Russia, this is, I sometimes I say, this is where the heart is because it's the same culture, it's the same language, it's the same history, a lot of it. So we're looking at some of the challenges that is we can't just take a direct flight to Canada, but it's only 16 kilometres away. We have to go through Europe to go to Canada. And it's our closest neighbour. And I think the way that the Canadian funds work from what the little I know of them is that there is direct mobility funding for individual artists. And that is something we don't have in Greenland, for example. So yeah, so that's that's some of the challenges that we have sort of those two, two legs. Yeah, and I think Charlie, we'd spoken before a bit about this, the connections and sort of the link with Europe and how that sort of impacts the the local mobility in a way. Yes. Hi, everyone. I'll also introduce by describing myself. I'm a black Caribbean female in my 30s, brown hair, dreadlocks wearing blue. Yeah, it's lovely to be here. In terms of my, my situation as an artist, and yeah, that I founded organisation in the Dutch Caribbean, for us, the Netherlands is our main point of reference and an almost always has been. So depending because we're six in total, and each has kind of its different status within the kingdom, it makes it very complex already on the language level, because Three Islands speaks at least four, four languages. And the other, which is divided also have Dutch, have French, have all sorts of other languages that are going on. So Dutch is still the official language that automatically also separates you linguistically from a larger international audience. For us, one of the challenges I can, I can mention from the get go is that the support or financial support is almost nonexistent for local governments. And when it comes for the Dutch institutions and funding opportunities, it's only in the coming years that there has been a drastic change in that, where there is a more outreach for programmes or at least open calls and especially description, descriptive for the islands, but previous to that it was very little. So therefore, you can imagine that you would think that there are museums or cultural organisations that have a programme all throughout, that would not be the case. So most museums, if they exist, are run by volunteer work, by individuals who find it important. The artist, there is a lot of talent, there is a lot of artists, so a lot is being done, but in terms of professionalising their career, that always you see that it stops at a particular age or and most of the time is because there is no infrastructure or network that can continue the growth. And also because there is no going off islands, so in terms of mobility, often it's believed that the chances are abroad and abroad, meaning the Netherlands and the rest of the world is kind of this unachievable or very dream-like reality that one wonders how to start to get there. There is a lot more, but yeah, let me just a brief start. Yes, I mean there's so many topics we could unravel and it was a very open question, but sort of picking up on that idea of kind of needing or needing to travel somewhere else or the opportunities in Europe or the Netherlands. Specifically, I think Sarah, you've mentioned before that idea of kind of travelling off the island and what kind of difference between local synergies and kind of reaching out for opportunities in Europe. Would you like to kind of maybe start by outlining a few of the characteristics that you see in mobility from your perspective? Hello everyone, thank you Claire. So I'm Sarah, red hair and in the 40s, just made it. And I'm an independent artist working in the dance field, like Claire said, but mostly working in the mainland, Portugal, but also connected to the island. But I'm bringing in the voices of some of the cultural institutions in Madara, Enrique Muedo from the Inclusive Dance Group, Danse and Qua Difrensa, Paula Erra and Elvi Camacho from the Theatre Company, Teatro Feticeiro do Norte and Eldar Folgado, who is an artist and creator and producer in the fine arts. So it was important to me to bring their voices in because they do live, they are based in the island and then we have a different perspective. So in terms of mobility, Madara Island or the Archipelago is very known as a touristic destination. And we do have a lot of flights between mainland and Europe, but only flights. We don't have boat routes or boat lines. The only boat line is between the two inhabited islands, Madara and Porto Santo. And we became very known as a touristic destination, especially because of our ecosystem, our nature, like Elena mentioned before, the beautiful landscape, but I would add the treasure because it's our treasure, which is the lower forest and all the fauna and flora that we have. In terms of cultural mobility, we have none, a part of the pilot project, the Archipelago Somadara, as an autonomous region, should have local or regional funding, but that's a few budget. There is little budget for that and also not very clear criteria. So all the cultural institutions are on, all the artists are dependent on the national and the European programs. And between 2009, with the economical crisis and 2018, if I'm not mistaken, we couldn't apply for national programs. So only on the last years we made it and that made a huge difference already, special for smaller institutions and artists. So specifically for mobility, we have none, a part of the pilot project, but for instance, the regional government supports the sports field for mobility, specifically, but doesn't support the cultural and the arts. And usually a local person pays 86 euros to fly to mainland. So you can foresee that each project has a huge investment in logistics and production for flights. And if you are traveling with your work with scenery or setups, for instance, it's extremely expensive. It's more cheap to travel inside mainland and to take with you the scenery than to, well, when you are making your project and producing it, you have probably to think that you won't be able to take with you objects or scenery because it's overwhelming, the numbers. You know, I think that's something that we've each kind of touched upon in a way that sort of connection that implies investment of a time, long flights potentially. So how does these challenges of mobility impact the programming or the time or the cost? Or do you have kind of examples of how you sort of adapted around these challenges? Anyone who wants to kind of jump in? I mean, in terms of programming, I must say that because of COVID, previously, we had, Unirte had her building in the city center of one island, particular island Curacao. So before COVID would hit, it would be much easier to have in the residency to invite artists from abroad and then it would be from the states or from the US. So it's, we are also a very touristic island. So there's always visitors and that is easier because they, yeah, it's a bit more logical to get grants from these countries for them to come to a residency by us. Then COVID came and then so in terms of good news that kind of made us focus more and have to try to look, okay, how can we really try to make local residencies work? And something that was always there is to include all islands. But one reason that wasn't feasible is that if you mentioned 80 euros for a ticket by us to go to each islands, we're speaking about in high season, about 300 euros for a 15 minute flight that we have to pay. And for the Netherlands, in high season, it can be about 800 euros. So those are very, very steep prices if you just also want to have a conversation between organizations. So during COVID that meant that, yeah, we continued the program of residency but by making it online, it has been possible to be open to all six islands. So while the world open up even for ourselves, we also made use of that. Another, yeah, what you would have is that each island comes with its different historical contexts. So that also is something that needs to be considered. And yeah, for now, yeah. I think you'd mentioned at one point that sort of the travel between, say, the Dutch Caribbean and Jamaica can sometimes be complicated or there's not so as many synergies know from the first historical reasons. Yes, it would be even, I mean, in general education, you would say it would be much more natural to let's say study in Puerto Rico or Cuba even or regional. But it's always catered to or it's more catered because of financial resources to Europe. So there is a lot of students that when finished a particular grade that move. And therefore, the focus is more there. And while it's actually historically and contextually also when you turn, you speak of art and culture, then you address the term of aesthetics, what kind of aesthetics are we talking about for each country that's a different principle in itself. So you would be one to have conversations with the English speaking the French, or the Spanish, but even, I mean, historically, it's also determined that it's almost inaccessible really to get to the islands. And you would have to go to London or it would be cheaper to go to London and then go to Jamaica, as opposed to have, luckily, we do have more and more flights, but it's still, if you think of hotel accommodation, all of those things are price. Yeah, are just a lot. And if you look at if there is a local funding body or sponsorship, it's usually they set requirements like, okay, you cannot spend it on gear, for instance, or you don't get to spend it on tickets because why. So there are all these limitations that actually are very much necessary. I've been able to do a lot of my work because I moved between islands. And I've done that because I had family and friends and stayed over. Of course, not everybody should do it in that way, you know, but yeah. Yeah. And Suzanne, I think you had a comment. Yeah, there are a lot of similarities. For in Greenland also for us, it's very expensive to travel domestic. And we have an obligation as National Theatre to reach out to the whole country. But the logistics are, you know, there's one airline, and it's expensive and it's rural areas. If you go to the very north, for example, there's one helicopter a week for one of the cities there. So it takes time. So we want to spend our our own money at the theatre for those domestic tours. And then when we collaborate internationally, we need external funding. And it takes time. So a lot of it is planning. And it's I mean, I plan two years, three years in advance, a lot of these international collaborations. And we have to because we have to get everything from external funding. Also, you can only the only gateway since Greenland is through Iceland or Denmark. So, you know, there's just the logistics again that plays a big role in how to get here and where we can get, you know, people coming in from and all of this. In Nuuk, which is the capital where we are located, we don't have an international airport as it is now. But they're working on that. So in two or three years time, we might have an international airport with direct flights from Nuuk. So that will change the situation. And it will be very interesting what it will bring. Yeah, yeah, I think like we've touched upon a bit the idea of tourism now, and how this kind of I guess I was interested to hear a bit about how this might be in tension with maybe more sustainable ways of travelling or the idea of time, you know, taking your time to sort of meet people and and do sort of more local tours. So, yeah, so what are your thoughts about how to manage this tension between sort of the fast touristic travel and a more sustainable approach to mobility? Anyone who'd like to jump in? I can go. Well, definitely our archipelago needs that because we do have a huge amount of tourists. And there is more and more flights, we just have, we just have Ryan there flying there. So the low costs are reaching, but we don't really have a sustainable way of travelling like boat lines. We had a couple of years ago, a boat which would travel from Canary Islands would reach from Shell and then would go to south of Portugal. And there was even an idea of bridging that line between Morocco and maybe even going to the Assurge Islands. And that would be extremely important, not just to connect all the area, but also to find sustainable ways or to have different perspectives or find different strategies in the economic interests. And in terms of because of being so touristic, I think the ways of developing also the field of arts and the cultural field is to really develop a cultural tourism in the area. Because so far, the arts and the cultural are, we're mostly developed as an entertainment or a mainstream for, you know, for the tourists to have a good time. And that really needs to change and to have festivals, to have curations and programmes happening there and bringing more people to the island to get to know the island in a different way, with a different perspective and maybe a different aesthetic taking the word of Shirley. And also looking at the ecosystem. That means looking at what is leaving there because our forest and our ecosystem is so particularly and everybody is there to go to see it. But their relation with it, it's very dry and raw. Like our first inhabitants of the island are trees, the millennium trees called stink woods. And they are part of primary forests. And in our archipelago, we have the main primary forest era of European Union. So imagine it says already a small island with the main primary forest and primary forest means an area which is untouched by human beings or which is not exploited. Our first inhabitant was a pingeon who fly there and became an endemic species. We have the monks hills which are extremely endangered species. They estimated a colony of 600 in all over the world and we have around 20 to 30. So we really need to protect and give them space. So one way that I see sustainability and developing cultural mobility is to think of land as being sacred, as being very valuable, as having will and spirit so as particularly as the Europeans with a very European and you know, Eurocentric perspective is to arrive to a place and feel that what is surrounding us and all the beings who live there, they are sacred. So we have to develop different kind of relations apart, science, capital or building hierarchy between different knowledges. And I think Suzanne, in Greenland, there's also a lot of natural park and protected and potentially fragile area. Definitely, again, a lot of similarities. Most of the population is located on the west coast and on the coast since we have the Indian ice covering most of the island and the whole northeast part is a national park and it is fragile land. This is not in connection to anything. It was just a thought when Sarah was speaking that in Greenland, you cannot own land. You can only have a license to build on the land, for example. But and the tourism here is small but growing as is a lot of things. So it is, of course, going to be interesting how we preserve and keep the nature in a good state. And I think the tourism industry is doing a good job, but it's important that there really is a long term plan for that. We don't have a lot of artistic projects aimed only for tourists. So I think we can learn from something from Sarah there. But it's something that is in development. And Shirley, are there any kind of sort of parallels from your context? I think in terms of the sizes, it's relatively much smaller. What you do see now, depending on each island, Bonaire has much more protected areas and has a higher priority. But by us, I mean, most of the most beautiful areas are our gate catered to the tourism. And in terms of artistic development, it's always this point that you mentioned, Sarah, I mean, commercial or independent practice. I mean, most art and what gets to develop is put into the orange economy in terms of this development, whereby it's catered to a particular audience. But I think it can be a combination of it. One of the examples I had, which I'm happy to share here is that when having artists in the residency by us, we wanted to partner up with different organizations. But because they don't know maybe other ways of going about the art production or project, it wasn't really on the agenda. But that work ended up being on in New York, on the square. The video work was displayed where they pay thousands and thousands of dollars for marketing commercial. And those are opportunities that are totally while you have a whole artwork displayed that was shot on the island. So I think there are many interesting collaborations, but you need to have the opportunity to even locally address certain different forms of production. And to do that, you need staff for the staff itself, to develop itself. And so even though we speak about tourism, or even land protection, or how to go about that for me, it's really about, okay, so if you look at it from the helicopter view, I always say, locally, we need to address certain things that are not fluently going and kind of mention that. And then to say what our needs are. And it's still like not only the awareness that there is a possibility to go abroad and that will help your development, but also this awareness that locally, there is a lot to do. One of the things, and maybe I'm going off topic, but it's the another way also is the language that is used. So right now I'm in Amsterdam for work, and it's always a different way of going about, I mean, I could get 30 emails in a day and that would be normal. But I mean, there's no way that through that communication on the island, that is a normal thing. And that those type of communication is also very tricky to have that as a standard. Also in bank transfers, Caribbean banking systems, I mean, worldwide, I think it's has many challenges. So the bank costs are higher than normally like transitional transactions. Some artists might not even have a bank account, depending on their legal or illegal status on an island. So the invoicing or the requirement of being a freelancer, that also means different things in different ways. One can say one is a freelancer, but this can one make a proper invoice billing that needs to be addressed. And those are cases, while their quality and the potential are so much that you want to help and you want to do something about it, but it needs kind of this larger infrastructure around for it to work. And I think you mentioned at a point that sometimes European funding can feel a bit overwhelming because of the lack of infrastructure in these contexts that sort of there might be opportunities available. But because of the size of the project that the funding is asking for, then locally that's a bit hard to achieve. Can I just quickly, because I agree very much and I think there's very few people in Greenland who has actually applied for the European Culture of Funds because it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of following up evaluation. So we often say if you want to apply for European funding, you need one person almost for a whole year to actually do the application, just take care of everything. There is of course European funding in Greenland, even though we're not directly a partner in the EU, Denmark is, we are not. So we can never be a direct partner in an application, we can only be an associated partner. And I've only ever tried being an associated partner in one application, it was a lot of work. So I understand why individual artists or smaller institutions think it's overwhelming and don't do it. Yeah. Yeah, and thinking about COVID and I think it was sort of briefly mentioned at some point the opportunities or the different connections that it opened up. Have there been any opportunities because of COVID that have addressed a particular local need or challenge? Well, in the Portuguese context, and specifically in Madara Archipelago context, there was what was called the exceptional funding for projects. And because of the exception, in fact, they made it quite easier to apply. So the opposite of the experience to big funding projects like EU. And within that, there was some opportunities, which were very valuable. For instance, myself, I managed to devise a residency in Madara Island with the five international artists, finding funding from one of those exceptional findings from the national government. But it was a sort of short amount. And in terms of mobility, none of us could find funding. All of them were based in European countries and none of us made it possible to fit in the criteria of a specific mobility program, for instance. But for sure, during the COVID, there was some opportunity and some support specifically for independent artists. Anyways, working in the performative arts, live arts. Well, online, it's not really a possibility. It's not really a choice because it's not the way that we can make our work or our arts. We can always find strategies. We can always be creative, like what we do best in our lives. But it's not everything. I think Suzanne, you've mentioned that before. Know the importance of being present and taking the time to travel more slowly. Yes. I mean, theatre is a live art form and it makes a difference to be there in person. So, at least in our theatre, we haven't adapted to digitising our art a lot. It's not easy that the infrastructure for the internet is also a little bit... It's not on a complete level where it's just accessible for everyone. And it can be slow and all of these things. So, no, we're big fans of the live performances. But I think we have learned some things and we've tried to adapt in a small way. But now we're really opening up and we are very busy because of all the projects that we've just been pushing ahead of us and that we can now actually do. We've also been lucky that we haven't been totally closed down during COVID because we are so isolated that we weren't really affected for a long time. So, we could work, but we could only have smaller audiences, for example. And thinking about sort of in-person meeting, Charlie, I think we've mentioned before that you can use the same language but kind of not be able to translate things to different contexts or different ways of working in different contexts. I was wondering if you'd like to expand a bit on that. Yeah, I mean, historically, even a region such as Caribbean has always been promoted in a particular way of leisure, pleasure, sun, sea, and we all are in vacation mode spirit. But it's unless you experience maybe how the work hours or how the heat affects your body. And you can only go so many hours outside that certain things might not be as normal than another. So, that is important also in terms of maybe the overwhelmingness of people maybe not engaging with you and not speaking with you only if they have met you for a few times and then understand, okay, I can trust you and open up. That takes time in itself. Well, it's very much European to just start and talk about what I do. And even I remember it took me years and I still have trouble with it that in one get go, you must be able to talk about what you do and who you are. And that is expected of you almost. But that's not the way culturally it has to be. So, when you know that there are these differences, then it's really, I think, important to have time and space to build on these things. And these are often matters that are neglected or maybe not seen as relevant as such. And that has also to do with maybe the practitioners, how many practitioners do we actually have in certain positions to cater to certain needs that are necessary. I think due to COVID, I mean, one of the biggest realization is that you cannot really isolate and focus on one island. I mean, you can and it's very well that it is. But if you kind of work with each other, and because of the population sizes are also so small, from that is only a percentage that you have that is that are that choose to be a professional artist or or cater in this. So you can kind of create programs that serve across islands. But that means that budget wise and programming wise, that that would require some focus on that, but it's definitely needed to, I think, have more time spent and exchange as well. Because I think there is countries this direct link with the Netherlands. I think it's good that they are opening up since recently, this is just like two, three years. And before that, they would even not know many people don't even know of the existence of the islands. And I think there are other links with other countries with Denmark, with France, and that is very much interesting to explore those links, because we are being taught at school, I mean, since young that we have been colonized by different all these different countries. So there are histories on all different islands, they're all these different histories of everybody almost, you know. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. So thinking about sort of the way forward, what do you think needs to change or what perhaps is working well in terms of funding mobility from any of your contexts? Just because I think the these requirements, I mean, they're good and they're necessary, but I think in terms of in our context, then each island will be different. And that's really great that you put Susanne and Sarah as well to speak. And it's so interesting that we have similar issues, right? And but then I think it's really knowing that when these requirements are there, still have this flexibility and also building a relationship with the ones that are doing certain fieldwork. So knowing who are the organizations that are working and to know how we can, you know, bridge certain gaps. So it's not only for us or for me, as with my one head artist and organization to have a relationship with my public, the audience that I'm building and artists, but also me being able to have maybe a more closer connection with the with agencies or with these institutions. So I could explain like this is my situation, I want to resolve it. But if there is this rigid only form option that immediately blocks me and that one thing I can do, I will choose to do that because the other one is just inaccessible for me. So I think knowing the requirements, I know it's important, but there is always historically we are formed my education on the street in classrooms at home is formed to be flexible because you your environment tells you that it's too hot, it's impossible to breathe like there are all these contextual and environmental things that are telling you to behave and to adapt to it. But the structure of the institutions are telling you to be rigid and be very precise and everything. And yeah, and it takes it takes it takes a Caribbean, not a Korean, but a creative mindset to and but also a vision to kind of crack and find loopholes. But I guess in certain conversations like this, I'm always like, okay, no, flexibility is very one of the solutions, I think. The flexibility to be to create those relationships and to take the time to develop. Yeah, I very much agree with Shirley. I think inspired by because we're so close to the Nordic funds that are very like they have a longer history and they're very established. One of the models that really works is the network funding for networks. And so for example, one of my personal ideas is now to try to establish an Inuit artist network so that goes across and see if we can get funding for that. Because we need to connect more. And so maybe, you know, smaller networks that goes from, you know, across this the the rural areas or something could be some kind of model in the way ahead. And and also to create some kind of funding for for for establishing collaborations. So funding for just meetings for pre meetings for connecting. So that in the beginning, that we can actually have a little bit of money to just the travels, maybe just to cover the travels. And, you know, if I could go to Shirley and say, okay, so what could we do? What do we have in common? Is there a history of colonization that we can, you know, mirror or what is it to just start like like an upstart. And and then from there, we could build the project so that we don't have to, you know, build the big project before we can actually meet. That would be great. And and again, that's one thing. And the other thing is funding for individual artists to to travel. It's something I think would be very important also. Sorry, are there any kind of thoughts that you have of you know, what could change or perhaps what's working well in terms of funding for mobility? Well, I underlined their words, both of them also in relation to our area. But well, I would just say it has to to work both ways from the ones who are living in the islands. And please don't forget when we live there, that's our center. It's not periphery. So periphery, well, we are always in our center and periphery is surrounding it. So it's extremely important to change that perspective to really challenge, whereas the periphery or not. And and yes, the people in the islands, the projects, the artistic objects have to travel hard to go. But also, we have to receive and it has to to play and work both ways. So mobility has to be funded in both ways. Yeah, I guess it touches upon what we're we're talking a bit about before and kind of thinking about the local funding and how that's positioned, you know, is it we're talking before in the context of tourism and the way that certain projects get highlighted, perhaps, to cater to sort of the more creative for artistic products for tourists? No. And to think, you know, do I have to travel to Europe in order to further my studies or to open up opportunities? And is there a way to kind of maybe stay in place as well and kind of have a stronger as you say, Sarah, more having travel going two ways, but also to to sort of think of the other side of being in place as well. So I think I'm not sure, Johann, if we have any questions, if we want to open it up to the floor. Thank you, Claire. And thank you for our speakers. We don't have much comments and questions in the chat at the moment. But maybe we can ask participants to raise their digital hand and ask their questions directly. I see that Francoise is there asking for the floor. Francoise, the floor is yours. Please briefly describe yourself for our visually impaired participants. Francoise, you muted. Sorry. So I've got some kind of issue. I'm not Francoise. I'm George Emmanuel, but you know, I've been sharing my computer and I forgot to change your name. So let me introduce myself. So I'm a male from Martinique, and I'm a sculptor and digital artist. And we are in touch with the same problematics like the COVID, the mobility and everything. And I moved my art creation into virtual reality for that purpose. And so the ability to share my artwork with the Oculus headset and to different people all around the world. And so I think that talking about solutions, this is a major one, I think, because you can expose your art and share it and introduce the world to what you are producing. The cost is quite low right now. Basically, with your cell phone, you can make a digital version of your art and share it with the world using those pretty classes and augmented reality. And so what, but the thing that you can't do is like, if you need the talent and you need the gear and special gear to make a digital double, for example. If you need the skills, this is where the mobility comes to a problem to us in the Caribbean, for example, because all those talent are and tools are in Europe and you need. Sometimes not as the artist, it's himself, but the talent that you are using for a playwright or some piece of art that involves using an external part of the artist, I would say, to digitize or to move or to be feeling special gear and tools. So sometimes the tools need to come to the island or the talents need to move somewhere else to be able to make this piece of art happen. Yeah, I think Shirley, I'm thinking about that between sharing skills and sort of developing emerging artists. Is that something that you not really looks at, sort of developing connections within the region? Yeah, and I must say I'm the next generation, one of the next generations, because you have other artists who started to do that on the island like Elvis Lopez, Atelier 89, and then you had the Caribbean Link, you have also the IBV, kind of this idea that there are international artists coming and teaching and passing on skill and mostly catered to the art production and preparing kind of, yeah, artists or kind of build helping people to build their portfolio. So what I try to do in Uni Artists to see, okay, how can we improve a particular art and culture climate by attacking and doing experimental projects that need kind of a nudge and see how I can influence that because it's so small scale. So whatever you do, you get somebody's attention and it's like you and that's what we're missing because often every day, every year things can get very monotonous. So we all get stuck in this phase of like, oh, here's the same thing, the same people and so kind of how can I break that. And so the first one of the first ideas is, okay, with no money, just see if I can get space and leave people be able to use that space in any way possible and see what emerges to tryouts and tests that kind of involved, I mean, in through the course of the years that now really working with curators from the region, but that is because it's digital. I do not, I would not want to only have digital, please not, but for now it's perfect because that made me see, okay, how can we work with, for instance, a curator in Dr, Dominican Republic. So Gina is right now, the curator of the online residency. And then I'm trying to see, okay, for this program, maybe I don't have somebody right now available on island because everyone is busy with their own projects, but understands the vision and kind of work with somebody on another island. So I'm also trying to see if in Jamaica something can be done, but very, you know, like online. So in that way kind of bridging, and it's really by going through these institutions and we're already busy or having participated to a program like Caribbean LinkedIn, which I also saw the link of New Institute something access, which is like another, you know, a similar found founders. So you really get to see if you're dedicated, if you're, if you put in the work, I mean, you will get to the places, but it's a much longer trajectory that you would have to be willing to take. And yeah, so in terms of development, across can really help. And there is a great divide between generations as well. In terms of opportunity, that's also an obstacle. I mean, in a small place, you kind of know everyone. So that brings it its own kind of politics, I think everyone can from a small place can kind of relate to that. And so having people new and fresh points of view and perspective is always kind of welcome as well in that. Yeah, and I guess that's that's one thing that I guess we're just kind of talking about now is the in a way kind of mapping and sort of discovering new voices that you might not have known by the via the internet or via the online and then from there seeing what happens, no seeing how you can sort of develop that and kind of make those connections and perhaps sort of your ups upscaling or kind of bringing in different freshness as you say different ideas and that's kind of a good starting point in the online space. And I mean, one thing is that you really see that even, I mean, in Europe, the options are not as extended because with the open call I specifically open it up for artists that live and work in the reader based and work in the region. So as opposed to the diaspora, and that's not too too, but it's important to have that separation because what happens also is that otherwise everyone in everybody that moved because they studied they had to move at some point. And they don't get enough opportunities or even they get to apply and they're happy to see an application. But then you immediately get this distortion of levels of opportunities as well. So I have to take into account because there are certain, you know, bases that needs to be covered in terms of writing, applying for even a project proposal. How do you write go about writing that? But also in educating the facilitators, which is an open call that just came, you know, to have enough people that know about finance coordination and everything because not all artists are as equipped to do all the organizations that needs to happen as well. So kind of really look to promote writing, you know, there's things have to be written or videos need to be produced to communicate to a larger audience. All that is helps to kind of take the work out or make the niche larger. We have another hand, a digital hand that just rose from Marta Fernandez. Marta, do you want to take the floor and briefly describe yourself? So I just wanted to take the floor to maybe offer a clarification. I think it's important to know that OCTs, so all the Caribbean islands, Greenland and also all the French territories, they're all eligible to EU programs. So that includes Creative Europe, fully as partners, they can obtain all the funding, they can be coordinators. However, it is true that in, I'm going to link in the chat the report that OCTADAS, there have never been any Creative Europe projects where OCT is even a partner. So this is a fact, not even a sub-society partner that we know. And apparently it's the same case for Ottermus regions, which is one of the reasons the G-Regio launched this initiative, well, initially the pilot program, which then became Archival. So it is true that opportunities are not adapted to smaller populations. However, there seems to be a trend where they're offering more opportunities to, more kind of like specialized opportunities to kind of bring other types of organizations and territories into the program, because what you're describing also applies to rural regions of Europe, which are isolated as well due to lack of infrastructure of different kinds. So follow up, just a little clarification and I'm going to link maybe some time to promote OCT as well. We OCTs do have the obligation to report annually, not annually, twice per MFF on the participation in programs. So OCTADAS does that for them. And I think it's very interesting to look at the figures, because for example, all the OCTs are doing an excellent job on Erasmus, and there are a lot of creative projects on Erasmus. And I think there is some way, as Erasmus has much smaller budgets, which with 70, 80% co-financing, there is a lot of activity from, especially from the Dutch Caribbean, but also from Rielden is doing extremely well with schools and also the French territory. So I think there is a lot of talent already and a lot of knowledge on the land. It's just that the creative year program in particular has a co-financing rate of like one or two million years, 50%. So it's extremely inaccessible for smaller organizations, which are the majority in OCTs. So another point to the conversation. And thinking about the bigger projects, is it sometimes a challenge to kind of get partnerships organized between cultural organizations in different countries, kind of sort of directing this to our speakers? Is that also part of the challenge, is to kind of make this big project with multiple partnerships? I think for us, I don't know. We are in a lucky situation that people do want to work with Greenland and sometimes in the best way possible. And sometimes pardon my language, but because we're a bit exotic, you know, so there are different approaches to it. But so I think we're in that lucky position that we really have to choose the projects and how much we can do and who we want to work with. And we do have sort of a friendship theater in Italy, for example, that we're starting to work more and more with. So the opportunities are there, but it takes work and it takes, you know, determination to go fully into a project and choose how much we can and what we can do. As I said, you know, we're the national theater, but we're so small. So the administration is also, there's just a lot that we need to have under our roof, sort of. We're also an acting school. So it's a lot under one roof. I'm sorry, I lost track, but Yeah, the idea of perhaps in your case, it's not the challenge of finding different partnerships across different nations, but sort of more of a capacity challenge. Yes, finding the time to particularly if you've got multiple projects on the go, or if you sort of funded through the Nordic countries and perhaps a few smaller fundings, taking up a lot of time, the idea of a bigger project is sort of. Yes, exactly. Yeah, also just another small point. I do find that, for example, those the Nordic countries, I keep going back to it. And the Nordic funds are opening up a little bit more for funding in the Arctic region. And that's something that's very interesting that they see the potential and the need to come to connect the Arctic region to the Nordic region. So that's, I think it's, it's again, one of those things that's in development and we're looking forward to that growing more. So Sarah, kind of thinking about the context, so from your context. And maybe, do you see that there's maybe not enough funding for individual artists for mobility? Well, sometimes if you are working independently, even having a network, your own connections, it might be pretty hard to reach bigger programs, bigger applications. Because when you have an independent scale, what I find that always works is when you have direct connections and relations by that, meaning really knowing presenters and creators and producers who will help you to, to bridge and to make connections between institutions and hopefully between programs because, well, AU program wouldn't be applyable for my reality. All right. I'm not sure if there is any other questions or comments from the public or from our chat. No, I think we, we don't have more questions and comments, but I think also we are about to, to finish this conversation and I'm really sorry in a way because it's short and frustrating, which is good. I love, I love frustration because it creates the desire to, you know, start this conversation again and continue it in one way or another. I'm going to thank you Claire for facilitating this conversation and I'm going to thank of course our three panelists for sharing their lived experience and work practice in relation to cross-border mobility, but also many other issues that were in a way echoing the realities of their peers in these different contexts. Maybe I just can say that I'm happy that we collectively share light on these different realities in relation to artistic collaboration, many impediments or challenges that are met by us professionals. I can take many takeaways from this conversation already, the relationship with tourism, digital inclusion, domestic flights or transportation being difficult, all these administrative and legal environment being very tricky to navigate as far as I understand, but also the need for flexibility in terms of funding and, and trying to design projects and not trying to find the cracks in the system to get support, which is a very, very interesting also point made by, by Cherilly. I like also to take the idea with me of how do we challenge the very notion of periphery and, and thank you for Sarah for, for putting that on the table. If I, if I may take three points with me and, and hopefully continue this conversation later, not only with our on the move colleagues, but with the, the on the move members and with our partners from RCPEL is there is a lack of sense of belonging to the European Union, let's say, or at least some confusion. I think Marta raised the point of the eligibility of organization based in these territories and I think it brings me to, I mean, it allows us to say that we need really to, to think about this further. And if I just share some, some, you know, information background information, when preparing this conversation, I've asked my colleagues from Perform Europe, as you may know, the touring supports came for performing arts, and also colleagues from ePortunis houses and mobility support schemes to pilot actions at European level, both implemented under the Creative Europe programs. And they were sharing the, you know, very, you know, with sad information that for ePortunis, they received no application from the ORs or the OCTs over the 448 applications. There are really few applicants that even chose as a destination to go in these territories and only two grantees were, you know, granted to travel to the Canary Island and to Asaurus, you know, and for Perform Europe, the same story. They didn't, I mean, they couldn't even, you know, monitor or collect the information, both at research phase, but also during the application process of how many applicants were applying from these territories. And among the 85 selected organization to benefit from, you know, touring money, none of them were from these regions. The second, you know, takeaway from me from today is also that the cultural mobility in the European outermost regions and overseas territories and countries is under research and under documented somehow. And I know our colleagues from RCPEL are putting a lot of efforts in also, you know, mapping and documenting the reality of mobility flows. I think on the move we'll make a concrete contribution to this effort by analyzing the mobility call, the open calls and the data that is circulated on its website in order to give some sort of snapshot of the trends and the flows a little bit like we did with the cultural mobility yearbook that we just published some days ago on the move website. And in order to aggregate this information, I think we need to continue to map the practices and the needs from the practitioners. And it feels like we also need to collect way more suggestions and ideas and recommendations. I mean, for us from the field, you know, but also recommendations for other member states and the EU. And I'm sure we will, you know, take on board the many suggestions that were formulated today, but also I would like to invite the participants to share their ideas and recommendations. We will be circulating a quick, very quick evaluation form, you know, six questions, five minutes. So in order to, of course, collect feedback on this mobility webinar, but also for you to post your recommendation and suggestions on this topic. And as part of these suggestions on the movies that are keen to hear from you on any other hot topics or burning questions, you, you would like us to address in future mobility webinars. So it's my, my pleasure to thank everybody who attended today's webinar to thank again the speakers and moderator Claire, our partners, RTPAL.eu, but also a whole round who livestreamed this conversation. I want to salute the work of my colleagues, Marie and Tania, and to say again that this webinar was supported by the EU, and in particular the Creative Europe program. So don't hesitate to be in touch with us, to follow us on social media, to subscribe to our newsletter. It comes in many languages. And to join us on the 25th of May for our annual cultural mobility forum that we organize in Helsinki, but also online. And again, live streamed thanks to all around. So thank you everybody, and enjoy the rest of the day. Thank you.