 My name is Evelyn Dietsche. I'm a Development Economist and a Public Policy Analyst. I've worked in and around the extractive industries for the last 15 years, mainly around resource governance issues. Now industrial policy has a bad name from the 50s, 60s, 70s when on the systems of state led economies industrial policy was used as a push type approach to industrialisation where governments were investing in certain types of industries and sectors. It's resulted in fiscal crisis in the 80s and it's been associated with the problem of rent seeking where political and economic elites in those countries have used the protection granted to certain industries not to actually develop those capabilities but live off the rents created by that protection. Development economists have become again interested in industrial policy because they have recognised that development is not about specialisation, it is about structural transformation and diversification of economies. What sorts of government actions or public policy actions can bring about that change from people being employed in low productivity subsistence agriculture to other types of sectors that are more productive. How far or how close to where your current comparative advantages are should you go with public policies to push the boundaries of the technological upgrading. It's very difficult to distinguish between good and bad industrial policy because it depends on what specific countries have done in particular context and where they were starting from. An example where successful industrial policies identified is the example of some of the East Asian countries that have achieved very successful economic growth in the post second world war period until now. And so one is looking at the sorts of policies that they were pursuing and how they were able to take privileges away from industries that didn't deliver when they were granted preferential treatment. One of the conclusions of the old type of industrial policy was to say governments are bad at picking winners but losers are good at picking governments. The modern industrial policy approach says well just the fact that it's risky to pick winners doesn't mean that we shouldn't be picking some sort of winners but it is really a process of collaboration and coordination once within across different types of ministries and with the private sector to learn from each other and to essentially take the risk to test different things and be able to correct your course of action if the expected results are not forthcoming.