 Okay, we're back, we're live on a Friday afternoon, relaxing ourselves here at ThinkTech and talking to our old friend, Kartake Mishra, who lives in Varanasi, India, which is the northern part of India along the Ganges River. You've all seen pictures of it and he joins us from time to time to talk about things that happen in Varanasi and in the northern part of India and in India and in the world. He's very worldly. He's a student at one of the universities in Varanasi. Welcome back to the show, Kartake. Thank you. It's nice to have you with us. I want to tell you a story before we go too far. You know, here in ThinkTech, we use Adobe products. You know, Adobe and our editing software is Adobe Software. Well, you know, some of the support centers for Adobe are in India and they feature Indian support agents. I'm not sure where in India. So if you call Adobe and you want technical support, they will connect you with people in the support center in India. Well, the people in Adobe have been watching you and me. And the last time I called them, they had a whole bunch of people in the support center wanting to get on the phone and say hi because they thought that ThinkTech has a great connection with India and with a fellow named Kartake Mishra. So you are famous Kartake. They know you in Adobe, a global corporation. How about that? I don't know. The thing is, Adobe is in cinema. So Adobe is in cinema and Adobe is in soundtrack or something is in theater. We use that in movies. Adobe is to you. They may be watching us now, you know. Anyway, I wanted to cover a few things with you just to take your temperature, take India's temperature and things that are going on. And India certainly is an active global player. And Mr. Modi is very active indeed these days. And one of the things that you mentioned to me when we spoke before was that he had had a visit with Premier Macron from France, President Macron from France. And that took place, what, in Varanasi. How about that? Can you talk about it? It was one of the most brilliant visits we have in the last two years. In 2015, Prime Minister of Japan, Suniru Abe, came with Prime Minister Modi to Varanasi and then Macron is coming to Varanasi. Or I should say he came to Varanasi and he stayed here for a day, I think. And it was like celebrations throughout the cities when he was visiting the city, cut out posters, welcome chants everywhere, people holding a plaque for France and India, welcoming Prime Minister Modi and President Macron. So what do people think of President Macron? I mean, after all, there was a big fight about, shall France go to the left or go to the right? Shall they become repressive with regard to the migrants in Europe? Or shall they be more liberal with Macron? What do people in Varanasi, what do people in India, what do you think about Macron? I think Macron is liberal and I personally believe that the liberal policies of Minister Macron is quite good for India and for European Union also. And he said that India should choose France as the new doorstep for the European Union. And France is the ninth largest foreign investor in India in terms of money. And India is the 30th largest investor in France. So, Mr. Macron was hoping more investments in France and to increase that number from 30 to 1st of second, I think, in terms of investment from India to France. So, you know, what is, is Mr. Modi is creating these international relationships, isn't he? He's very open, he's outward. He's talking with everyone, even Trump, I suppose. He's talking with China, he's talking with Xi Jinping and I want to discuss that with you. And he's talking with Europe. How do you see this? How does the average Indian see this as Mr. Modi's initiative to connect with the world? India is becoming a diplomatic power right now, isn't it? Yes, it is. And I think it is the success of Prime Minister Modi that in foreign front or in foreign policy, he is very successful and quite admired by the people of India. But every nation he visits is a huge progress in India, media house is talking about it. And foreign relations are something that is very interesting from the point of view of India, I think. And he visited US also, he visited France also in 2015, and he visited many nations. So, in foreign front, he's quite active and quite successful in India and people admire him a lot. Yeah. Well, you know, Europe has changed, of course. And India is interested in that because it affects India directly or indirectly. And Europe has problems now with the migrants, it has problems with sort of a turning right. We saw how hard Angela Merkel had to work in order to retain her majority in the German parliament. And we see, you know, changes in Europe that are a little bit troublesome. And I just wonder what you and what Indian people in general think of the trouble in Europe. Does this give you concern? It's a bit of a concern, migrant crisis in Europe. It was quite famous in India why people were moving away from Iraq's period to Europe. And I know that. And Ailam Kurdi's photo was quite famous in India. The boy dying on the beach, a dead body on the beach. We saw that crisis, migrant crisis. And it's quite clear that people want to help somehow or the other way. India is far away from Middle East, I should say. So they moved to Europe, but there is a lot of sympathy for Syrian people from India and Iraqi people from India. Sure. They're fighting more by looking for this. Yeah. Well, I mean, right now you're having a bit of a contention with Pakistan over the internet. I don't know if you've noticed that. I saw that when I looked up Google News on India, and Pakistan has built a wall around the, about the internet, which I take it is not a good thing. And I wonder what, you know, what the average Indian thinks about the relationship of India and Pakistan, especially a view of the fact that Pakistan has been blamed with it being a harbor for terrorist activities. It's quite clear that India does not have a very good relationship with Pakistan. We went on with three conventional walks in 48, in 1955, in 1971, and one major conflict in 1999. So we have three or four walks to Pakistan. So it can tell you a lot how much relations which we are having with Pakistan. And proxy walks are supported by Pakistan and Kashmir. We know that the Bay Harbor terrorist or cross-border terrorism. And it is affecting Afghanistan also. Pakistan's terrorism is not just against India. It's just against all the people who are neighboring Pakistan and China somehow supports Pakistan. When you have said that Pakistan is harboring terrorism and Pakistan should do more, China says that Pakistan has sacrificed a lot. The US should praise Pakistan. But the fact is Pakistan is not doing a lot against terrorism. Now that's really too bad because it's in a position geographically to do a lot against terrorism given Central Asia. But you mentioned China and I do want to have a discussion with you about China because people say in this country that it's not only that Xi Jinping wants to be president for life, but that this affects world opinion. It affects world opinion about the emergence of dictators, especially in a country that's a democratic country like India. And if I were in India, I would expect that people in India would not like to hear about dictatorships because you work so hard to preserve your democracy, to express your democracy, one of the great democracies in the world. So when he elects himself president for life and emerges as a strongman and a dictator reducing human rights, reducing civil rights all over the country in so many ways on a daily basis, that would give the average Indian some concern, does it? Yes, it is. Because in India there is no qualification like that. You can't say president of Prime Minister for life if you are democratically elected by the people of India, no problem. But if you declare that you want to stay in power for life, that's a very big problem, I think. And it's quite, I would say, communist in nature again, that China believes or tries to say that this is the area of influence of China. China is building so much projects to help the nation. But I believe that China is trying to capture nations in depth by providing them alone at 7% or 8% by providing belt and road initiative, which we do not support in India. It strikes me you're in an interesting spot. Because just as a matter of your national character, you're not inclined to support a dictator. And certainly Xi Jinping is emerging as just that. At the same time, you have an interest in maintaining good relations with China. It's a very powerful country just near your border. And it's involved in the One Belt, One Road initiative going from China to Europe. So you're there. You're there geographically. You're in the middle of things. So you have a kind of dilemma because you want to remain democratic, but you also want to succeed in your own geographical area. And then, of course, we have Mr. Trump, who is unpredictable. And so where do you fit? Where does that fit in terms of India's relationship with the U.S. as opposed to its relationship with China? I'm not saying you have to make a choice, but I'm saying that India must figure out a way diplomatically to handle the challenges on both ends of that. I have a two-part answer for that. One thing, China is one of the largest trading partners with India. Around 80 billion U.S. dollars we trade. And for the U.S., I would say, U.S. and India are having quite different relationships with, I would say, with China. If we take three nations, U.S. and India, I think U.S. and India can cooperate together because of democracy. They think similar. They are promoters of liberty. And China is a bit of a dictator in this region. Trying to say that that's South China Sea. It's area of influence. And all the areas which in China is working is actually quite a bit problem. In Djibouti, China is making a military base. In Maldives, China said to India that India should not interfere in Maldives crisis. There was an emergency or a problem in Maldives regarding the current ruling government. And India is not interfering in that. But China says that India is not at any cost to interfere in Maldives. And it also says that it does not want any other clash point with India in this particular region. So what I get is China is very aggressive and it's one belt, one road. It's not just economic. It's not just transportation. It's not just outreach. It includes military strategies and tactics and advances and getting advantages. It's military outreach in many ways. And that includes on your borders. It should give you great concern to see that happen. It should give you great concern to see what's happening in the South China Seas. So how does India deal with that? How does India maintain a relationship where it doesn't feel that China is ready for an incursion on its borders? India and China both know the fact that they can't live without each other. China can't replace India and India can't replace China. So it is a kind of relation which we have sweet points sometimes in climate, sometimes in issues which we can cooperate with China and on which Trump is having a different opinion. Say for example, by the various climate events and trade and he moved away from that trade treaty. And that's all the things in which India and China are having similar thoughts. But when it comes to the idea of influence, China and India are quite different. India focuses on software influence through diplomatic means, through social or cultural means. China focuses on economic, much more aggressive in a tradeful manner to influence the country's culture, or I would say in simple terms, of a nation. Well let's take a short break and we'll take one minute off if you don't mind, Carnegie, we do that. And we'll come back in one minute. When we come back, I want to ask you about how the North Korea-South Korea issue affects your thinking and the thinking of the average Indian person over, what do you call it, security in Asia-Pacific. We'll be right back with Carnegie Mishra in Varanasi, India. Aloha, I'm Kili Akina and I'm here every other week on Mondays at 2 o'clock p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Together. In Hawaii Together we talk with some of the most fascinating people in the islands about working together. Working together for a better economy, government and society. So I invite you into our conversation every other Monday at 2 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. Join us for Hawaii Together. I'm Kili Akina. Aloha. Hi, I'm Pete McGinnis-Mark and every Monday at 1 o'clock I'm the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Research in Munna. And at that program we bring to you a whole range of new scientific results from the university, ranging from everything from exploring the solar system to looking at the earth from space, going underwater, talking about earthquakes and volcanoes, and other things which have a direct relevance not only to Hawaii but also to our economy. So please try and join me 1 o'clock on a Monday afternoon to Think Tech Hawaii's Research in Munna and see you then. Okay, we're back with Carnegie Mishra in Varanasi, India. And we're talking about how Indian people feel, how he feels about the things that have taken place in the world, you know, respecting the fact that India is a global nation more and more all the time. So one of the things that's happened here in Hawaii, if I didn't mention it to you before, Carnegie, is that we had a false alarm and the local government, by mistake sent a message to everybody in the state of Hawaii telling him that there were ICBM missiles en route to Hawaii and that everyone should take cover. And they said this was not a drill. It was just a mistake but not a drill. So what happened is everybody took cover and worried and got all excited about it. And it got resolved although there's a political controversy about it now. Bottom line is people in Hawaii are afraid. And I guess some of the people on the west coast are afraid. And it shows you that we live in a time when nuclear attack is possible and considered by some leaders. So here we also have an unprecedented meeting between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un to take place between April and May. Nobody's sure that it will take place or that it will be successful. But I wonder how closely you're following all this. I wonder how closely the average Indian person is following all this. I wonder what Mr. Modi has said to the public. I wonder how people in India feel about the problem with North Korea. Can you talk about it? I can talk about it. First of all last time I said that issues would be resolved between North Korea and America. I was hopeful and this was happening and this will happen. I think President Trump will meet with Kim Jong-un. And again I would say in India North Korea and India do have diplomatic ties and they are only limited to aid medicine and food providing necessities which North Korea requires. And we are having diplomatic ties with North Korea just due to the fact that Pakistan and China also have ties with North Korea. And that's the sole reason in North Korea as a diplomatic partner. And I believe that diplomatic channels are always successful for handling the issues between the nations. And in India we know that, Mr. Modi knows that trade would be restricted to the necessities to the medicines and food facilities which is required by North Korea, nothing else would be provided to them. And people are thinking that this meeting between America and North Korea would ease down the tension between these two nations and recently I knew that in South Korea both the nations North Korea and South Korea played under the United flag as the United Korea. So these are all things that I think are hopeful and we should be hopeful that things will ease down between the nations of all these strategic reasons. Yeah, well that's good. I didn't realize that you had. So you as an Indian citizen assuming you had the time and money would you be interested in flying North Korea and taking a walk around being a tourist there? Diplomatic relations with North Korea if things ease down, if things and tariffs are removed, if North Korea stops doing nuclear tests and missile tests and there is a possibility that Indian tourists may go to North Korea, there is a possibility we can't ignore that. Yeah, interesting. I mean I know some Americans who have been to North Korea multiple times and are sympathetic with the North Korean people though not with the government and I really wonder if this is a controversy that is exaggerated in some ways by the personal comments that have been made by President Trump and Kim Jong-un and I want to turn attention if I may to how the Indian people and how Premier Modi feel about President Trump these days. I asked you that before and I recall that your answer was not altogether negative that you felt that he had a certain value to offer and that being a strong leader was beneficial at least in the minds of some Indians. Has anything happened that would change? For example, he has interposed tariffs, serious tariffs on steel I want to say it's 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum entering the United States there's quite a controversy about whether those are appropriate tariffs and whether tariffs like that are appropriate these days. Some of our allies in Europe have spoken out against it. I don't know whether India is affected by it. I don't know how much steel you're importing or exporting to the United States or aluminum for that matter. But I wonder what people's reaction is toward tariffs to trade that way. We've had several moves by this administration to limit trade agreements to drop out of various regional trade agreements and I wonder how India feels about trade and about the United States and about Trump these days. Okay. I think Trump wants to start a trade war with nations and that's fruitful for the United States I believe that. Tariff implementation can cause a serious trade issues with different allies of the United States itself and Trump is focusing on India that India is not reducing tariffs on American products in India. But the situation is not like that even if we reduce the tariffs on India on American products they are still enough for a common Indian to purchase. If you want to reduce the tariff it would be less and that's quite a lot of amount of money in India. But I believe that trade issues should be with all the leaders at a forum that how issues of trade can be solved by the different leaders at a common point having a common tariff throughout the nation which will be acceptable by each and every member nation. We have G20, G8 that's not fully functional it should be much more inclusive at least 40 to 50 nations should be included in that and each nation should work. We have a world trade organization but people generally do not listen to that would be you I know that. That's another issue but I think trade issues can be solved. Well yeah and one other thing I want to ask you about is not unrelated is the question of immigration in the United States you know we've had foreign policy. Myself I just came back from a trip to Australia and in Australia in the last few years they have opened their immigration wide wide open and they have a very diverse population now and it's only happened in relatively recent years they have people from all over the world certainly from Asia all over Asia Southeast Asia India, Bangladesh Sri Lanka, Pakistan for that matter it's quite amazing what kind of a diverse population Australia has achieved in only a few years. But in the United States we seem to be shutting it down we're still interested in building that wall you don't see it in the paper all the time but the Trump administration is chasing immigrants all around and trying to deport them on a regular basis in large numbers and he has not yet backed off or otherwise found a resolution for the gamer issue about those those kids who were who came to the United States with their parents were illegal but very young and have lived here all their lives and now they're at risk of being sent away to countries they have never known and I wonder and let me add one other thing is that there are a lot of Indians in this country and they do well they're in school, they're in business they are constructive members of the society they're as American as anybody else and their success story and the other hand there is a white supremacy in this country and this white supremacy works against that and there have been racist attacks including one as I recall a fatal attack somewhere in the south which led an Indian doctor who was practicing in a hospital in the south to pick up sticks to leave the country with his wife and family although he was a successful doctor and take off because he didn't feel the United States was a friendly nation to him anymore so I wonder how Indians feel about this turn of events over the past year and you know whether it changes the perception of the average Indian about the United States okay I think that a lot of Indians are working in the United States everyone is working so it can be a very big concerning issue if the United States restricts the immigration but one thing which President Trump is doing is that he is working against illegal immigrants who have criminal records I think and that's the corrective action for the people of the United States so I can say that but from the point of view of an Indian in which I think Indians would be concerned due to the jobs we are doing in the United States and people are traveling to the United States for some of the other reasons and I think that illegal immigrants having criminal records should be dragged and action should be taken but when we are talking about people who are coming through direct route through legal routes to the United States should be taken in jobs different areas in which they are working and should be taken but whenever such kind of thing regarding Trump's policy come in Indian newspaper that Trump is taking measures against immigrants so there is a lot of concern about Indians what will happen to them so the kind of tension is there but we know that legal people who are traveling from the United States to the United States would not be harmed you do realize that to the extent that this administration says that it is that immigrants are largely criminals drug traffickers and other unattractive members of society that a lot of people disagree with his statements in that regard and there is a question as to whether his statements in that regard are true and really what most people feel most people I know feel is that he is excluding races and cultures and reducing diversity as fast as he can which of course is not a good thing for the economics or for the principles on which this country was founded does the average Indian recognize that I think Trump is racist to an extent we recognize that fact that some of his other policies are targeting towards the racist people and I think that last time when the Oscars were held all these people black Americans were wearing black dress and a kind of protest was there in Oscars and he commented on that also and so we know that a bit racist touches there to Donald Trump and we know that racism is having a very deep group history in the United States I know about it people of India may not because history of the United States is not that much taught in India I know that history that all the history of the United States how the United States were found natives first when Europe came they take actions against the native people of the United States then again African people were brought to the United States but there is a very long history of racism so we can't blame President Trump for whatever happening in the United States right now it has some historical and cultural reasons due to which he takes such actions I mentioned before Carnegie that every time I talk to you you seem to be more sophisticated and you look better in our connection sometimes we have interruptions in our connection but mostly these shows are better and better and I wonder if you have any thoughts about how participating in a show like this on think tech here in Hawaii in the United States has affected your way of thinking your way of looking at things your way of reading the newspaper have you had any personal experience involving that I think boost of confidence I would say shows like this on international arena I would say it is an international show I would say people of Hawaii are listening to me through radio through YouTube it is quite boosting and I know that I can get the point of view of an average American I think regarding what is happening in the US so it is quite interesting for me and quite interesting for people of Hawaii also I am glad we met Carnegie I look forward to doing this with you again in a few weeks and to finding out more about the dynamic between our two countries and more about India because I really want to know and a lot of people want to know and I also want to make sure that Adobe Systems is listening to us too okay thank you Carnegie Mishra and very nasty India thank you so much aloha