 Welcome to Living Mosaic. My name is Martha Holden. I'm a member of the Spark of Humanity Network. And today with me is Glenn Hutchison, a friend and an artist. This is the first of our series of special events recorded to talk about the concept of Living Mosaic, which the idea is that there is a solution to the heartbreak we see in the world that we're so aware of. And that you, we are a part of that solution. We are unique and essential parts of the solution. And we envision the solution as a Living Mosaic, living and evolving. And so that's what we're here to talk about. And the gathering of people who find that concept interesting and are interested in becoming, letting go of what they need to let go of, clinging to what they need to cling in order to be drawn into their niche in the Living Mosaic. And I think that pretty much is it. And that's what we're doing here. And Glenn, if you tell us just a little bit about yourself and what interests you or doesn't interest you in the Living Mosaic concept thing. Yeah. Thank you very much, Martha, for inviting me here. It's an odd pleasure to have this opportunity. And I'm glad just to be able to sit and talk with you about it a little bit and about whatever else, I suppose. About myself, I never know what the most relevant aspects are, but I would say I think the way you introduce me, we know each other, and I'm an artist, almost sums it up as it is. I have lived here in Montpelier where we are for 15 years. I see lots of people all the time in my day job as a picture frameer. I have an art studio where I make my own paintings and sculptures and drawings. And I do a lot of reading. I don't retain much of it, but I read an awful lot of stuff. What I think about the spark of humanity and the Living Mosaic concepts, I think I'm, first of all, really, again, thankful to you, not only for having me here, but also just for the work that you're doing to bring this out. It is worthwhile and really interesting. I share the sense that there are solutions, and I think it makes sense to work toward those solutions in the way that you seem to be working with conversations and writings and listening, among all the other things, but those aspects. And I think that I appreciate the root idea of the spark of humanity that's in each of us. I think that that's perhaps not exactly the way I would phrase it, but I recognize that idea. Then I get to the Living Mosaic, and I have to admit I am in a state of questioning that concept, I think, or maybe just the metaphor, the specificity of the metaphor, and I'm looking forward to this conversation in some part to work through some of those questions. Good. Thank you very much. That's great. I think before we move into that, which sounds very meaty and interesting, and I can hardly wait. Well, we'll find out. We'll enjoy it no matter what, either way. I think that's the important thing. I'm delighted you're here and bringing some caring, some intelligence and some mental... Yeah, you're present. You're paying attention to it and responding, which is a wonderful thing, because you as an artist know that when you put your art on the wall, you like to have people not only look at it, but they feel that they're responding in some way, and it's a different art form. Yeah. Do you associate with any particular faith tradition or background or spiritual upbringing or any of that stuff that you'd like to put on the table? Yeah, it's probably worthwhile. I would say that I am an atheist with Quaker and Buddhist leanings or curiosity. I feel as though I think about religion and spirituality and philosophy fairly regularly, and I go back and forth about it, but I have not ever been directly connected to a faith tradition. Even as a child, your parents didn't march you off to Sunday school? No, I would say the opposite. I knew where the Sunday school was. I had piano lessons in the same building, but the family generally avoided committing to any religion and had, I think, a quietly antagonistic relationship to the idea of religion and maybe more specifically what were the standard religious options around us, basically Protestant Christianity. So I grew up thinking there were all kinds of wonderful stories in the Bible and elsewhere and that none of them had any more truth or validity to them than any other options and that the institutions of religion were, let's say, questionable at best. And then in college, I went to Haverford College, which is a Quaker begun institution and still has a fair amount of the leanings toward Quakerism there and really appreciated that angle on Christianity, I think, and on religion and attended some meetings for worship and mostly just fell asleep, which was a very nice nap. And then also in college, studied Buddhism especially toward Zen and since then have, again, once in a while attended a Quaker meeting or attempted Zazen or something like that. I don't have regular practice though and I don't usually miss it. I do appreciate the community more now, I think, than I did when I was growing up and I think that if I had a little bit more of a spur to do anything different than the nothing that I'm doing, I think that my objections to organized religion have decreased over time. You mentioned antagonism in your upbringing. Gentle antagonism. But that's drained away and that's not so fierce for you. But though it's gentle hell, there it is. So good. So you said you had some questions and comments and critiques and whatever about the Living Mosaic concept. Yeah. Whatever. Have had it. Okay. So I think that the... Please. Thank you. Again, thank you very much. Please. Thank you. I think that the basic question for me is whether... is why this specific metaphor of a mosaic and whether the modifying word living easily applies to the metaphor. To me, thinking about a mosaic, the qualities that I see in that imaginary object are immunability and a kind of fragmentation of individual pieces and a sense of being made. By an outside... Uh-oh. By an outside maker. And while I appreciate the sense of, let's say, peace and stability and beauty and togetherness, unity, that the image offers, I struggle to get my sense of the way things really are as inaccurate and changing as that sense is. I struggle to match that sense with my concept of a mosaic. And then, well, it's a Living Mosaic that word perhaps helps, but I've never seen a Living Mosaic. And I'm not sure that once I apply that idea of life to a mosaic, I'm not sure that it still is a mosaic in my head. It might be something else. So I should try to phrase this as a question so that it's... No, you don't need to. I can carry on anyway. Please. Thank you. And I don't know where it came from. You know about ideas. They just come. Yes. So they take no responsibility. Yeah, sure. But I will do my best to rationalize. I think mosaics because mosaics are made of such different pieces and each one can be unique. And I like that part of it. That even though we're each unique, that we each fit into this functional, this living organism, and that we don't need to be... In fact, it's destructive if we want to be... You know, I'm a pebble. Let's say you're what do you want to be? Oh, a pebble sounds good. A piece of... Mirror? Sure, I'll be a mirror. Okay, you'll be a mirror. I'll be a pebble. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, so I look at it. Oh, he says so good. I want to be a mirror too. Oh, why am I just a pebble? You know, it's that sort of thing or pebbles are better. Pebbles can break mirrors. You know, if you sling the mic, you know, there's all that stuff that the variety and the being, knowing that when we are who we are, I'm not trying to be a mirror. You're not trying to be a pebble and allow ourselves to become truly the pebble we are, the mirror we are. The more we do that, the more willing we are to let go of our illusions of who we should be and what the other person should be or don't we want to or shouldn't they, then we're more, then we can begin to fit into some functioning organism. And yeah, I know mosaics, people build them. I have a friend who does that. Yeah. And she liked the image because, oh, we're all broken. Yeah. And there has that advantage, but you know, my pebble isn't broken to be honest with you. At least not at this moment. The idea that it's not, it's an organism, you know, like a squirrel. And so it's not like somebody's thinking, hmm, what piece of shell needs to go, you know, it's not, it doesn't have that. At least for me. Yeah. One reason I think it works for me is because I believe, no, I don't believe much of anything, but I'm becoming, I'm increasingly experiencing the oneness of all creation. Yeah. And so I meant to micro-risal my works. Yep. And non-human allies. Yeah. From who knows where. And we're all part of this dance, an ever-evolving multi-dimensional dance. Yeah. Which is very abstract. Is that easier than a mosaic? I think I'm closer to a maker of mosaics than I am to a dancer. But I think that a dance feels more true to my sense of what's going on than a mosaic does, as a metaphor. Right. Yeah. I can see that. A dancing mosaic? Yeah, yeah, yes. Sure. Where we get to be ourselves. And evolving too. Yeah. Because it's alive, it's evolving. We have to be evolving whether we like it or not. Yeah. And so when evolving, dancing, evolving. When evolving, dancing, mosaic. Yeah. It doesn't have to be in a mosaic. Really, if we get it, that we each get to be who we are. Yes. And that who we really are is essential. It's important. Yes. I want to come back to that. Okay. Because I may have another question about who we are and so on. Okay. But I also want to come back to what you said a couple of things. But earlier, you were talking about mycorrhizal networks. If I'm pronouncing that right. I don't know. And you're, and your sense of interconnection and oneness of being. And I would be curious to hear your thoughts about that sense of oneness of being and mycorrhizal networks and the rest of the world besides you and me and humans. Is it your sense that actual pebbles and mushrooms and other identifiable things and entities also have that spark? The spark of humanity, this network. Right. And we're, spark can be, you know, I'm trying to rewrite a new thing. Oh, interesting. I'm glad I can tell. In respect, out of respect for those entities or creatures, my fellow creatures that have no inclination to have anything to do with anything that is human or, you know, spark of humanity. I really don't want that. So I'm working on another thing about a germ of true. And germ is in germinate, not is in pathogen so much. So that's the language I'm using at this point. Doing that, you know, is the spark of humanity. Network is the living mosaic program, whatever we're doing here, is a project of the spark of humanity network, but that's, you know, you can buy one without buying the other. Yeah. Or neither. Yeah. Yeah. That answers. The other thing that I appreciated about what you were saying earlier was, was your response that the idea came and that that you weren't sure from where necessarily and that, and then you said something like let's see how I might rationalize it, which I really like. I think that one of the things that I have enjoyed, one of the ideas that I've enjoyed coming to, maybe, or poking at, maybe more accurately, I'm not sure I've come to it, is that is how irrational I am. Or irrational. Sure. Yeah. But that, my sense is that the way my rationality behaves is to make sense of what I have just observed myself do. Right. Right. And the doing, the thing that I find, the place where I find myself, is rarely, if ever, the result of a rational process. Or logical. Logical process. Right. Not linear, not logical. Right. That there is more to me, more underneath my conscious speaking, rationalizing, logical, consecutive, controlled mind, that most of that more is doing most of the actions that I then notice myself having just done. And then I think, well, I did that because such and such and such and such led to it. And therefore, that's what I did. Okay. And so I think that whenever I see an example of someone else perhaps having a similar perception, it tickles me. I appreciate it. Yeah. So do you, how urgent or how important you feel it is to be able to come up with a reason why you do these things? I think that it's valuable and helps all of me, both the logical, rational, and the everything else, do the next things. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I remember having something like this conversation with our honorable mayor, Jack McCullough, a few years back, which was amusing. We didn't get very far into it, but I would be curious to see if you can get him on this program. They don't know him. Oh, he's very sweet. He would be, well, we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. I feel there's something alive when you were motioning. It felt like, okay, there's this rational, logical, more or less linear. And then there's this where the real life is. Yes. That comes up and you, blessings on you, you respond to it, you listen to it, you were obedient to it in a sense, and you let it take you. And that's part of being an artist. I would say, I should hope. In my practice, it is my practice, as much as I can figure it out. Yes, very much. Yeah. And then try to, does this make sense in this way? And I suppose, projecting wildly, which I do, that when I figured out, you know, this is why I did this. And then that gives the rational, logical part of my brain, just over here, I think, because I remember correctly, that gives me permission. Then that part will give me permission to then respond to the living, intuitive part again. It says, okay, that was okay. It is okay. I don't know why you did that. But okay, it's okay. You can keep on being. I don't have to put the lid on you. Yeah. I think perhaps what I'm trying to do in art and life is allow myself to do things and make things that will elicit laughter or applause from my rational conscience. Oh, good. I like it. We've got 21 seconds left. What? No. How did that happen? I don't know. Oh, gosh. But you can come back so fast. I didn't even get to all my other problems with your concepts. Well, then we need to set up another time. Okay. That was much faster than I thought. So did I. Me too. That's because it was fun. It was fun. Yeah, it's good. Thank you so much. Thank you all very much here at Orca.