 Kevin Shueweiler is 12 years alcohol free and it's a great gift for me to be able to interview Kevin because Kevin has actually been in my business working as a coach since 2015. Yes, it's 2015 and Kevin is the top coach of one of my programs Project 90 and he has helped hundreds of people now to be able to get power over alcohol and completely transform their lives. And it's great to have Kevin on the call here. We're going to dig in a little bit about his story, find out a little bit about what his relationship was with alcohol before he decided to quit and just learn a little bit about what inspires him on his alcohol-free journey. Kevin, great to have you here, mate. James, thanks for having me on. It's funny because we've had thousands and thousands of conversations over the years, but probably I've only interviewed once or twice I think. I think about it now. Is that right? Yeah, I think we had one like maybe in 2015 or something about how I reached out to you and that was about the only thing we touched on. Yeah, we've had thousands of conversations. We rarely ever come on and like share on the podcast what we talk about in private. Yeah, so just tell us a little bit about you, where you live and what your role is within our organization. Give us a little bit of context and then we'll go from there. Sure thing. Yeah, so I live in Missoula, Montana. I've been here for over a decade, been alcohol-free for over 12 years as you just mentioned. And so while we're thousands of miles apart, still have weekly check-ins. And so being in touch now for over the last five years the roles and like seat on the bus that I've sat in has shifted around. It's like you start a team to get people on the bus and then sometimes they swap seats. So I went from really working on the like the marketing side, like a lot of the technical development and then slowly moving in with well guiding conversations with people that want to go through alcohol-free as a path to try out. And like it was just a natural fit since I was already alcohol-free. It was like, well, let's do this thing. I like this. Yeah. And you've successfully been able to guide people through their alcohol-free journey. Just before I ask you a few more questions about you, like what's traditionally the type of person who you work with inside of our organization to help them get alcohol-free? Like what's that demographic? Like what's the story that's going on or that they share with you when they first come to you and you then become their coach? That's a great question. Yeah. So I mean, if you look at like demographics, like data-driven things, I mean, there's probably over 40. They probably are a professional or business owner or entrepreneur. They're likely, they have kids or spouse. So like a lot of them work in either the US or like developed country. So like US, Canada, Australia, Europe. So we can go into those. But I think the conversation ahead is what's kind of interesting after having like hundreds and it's the same things again and again. Like here I am thinking I can just put down alcohol, walk away from it. And here I am like a week later still in the same cycle. I know it's impacting my sleep, productivity, my relationships. I don't think I'm an alcoholic. I don't think I want to go to AA and be in a dark dingy room. But I don't know what else is out there to guide me on that. I've probably tried it a few times and think I can do it on my own. Maybe get a month in, do a dry January, super October, then find myself right back to where I started. So like some of this dialogue just keeps coming up again and again. You have been in a dark dingy room of AA. So you've experienced that and you've experienced not being in it as well and figuring out this alcohol-free journey yourself and with some coaching and a few different things. So let's just go back to the beginning and tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what your drinking habits were in the earlier phase of your life and how that resulted in you in that dark and dingy room as you described in AA and then ultimately to hear where you are today helping transform countless lives inside of our organization. Yeah, okay. So where it first starts, I grew up in Minnesota. I'm not originally from Montana. Smaller town, about 2,500 people, so not a really big city I grew up in. My parents growing up didn't drink, didn't see them drink in front of me. And so while I saw them in movies and some other friends' parents would drink or whatnot, to me it was like looking outside at what other people do not necessarily in our home. So I didn't really have anyone guiding me of like, oh, well, I looked at mom or dad as the role model of what drinking is all about. So maybe in some sense there was this kind of thrill of like, oh, maybe I can go have whatever fun these other people outside of my family must be doing. So it started, I think when I was in junior high, you know, like I have a cousin and he was like the notorious, you know, kind of like cousin or friend that would get you do all like the things you shouldn't do. Oh, we need to steal like, you know, and go steal a pack of cigarettes from grandma and smoke this cigarette or like we need to drink this beer or something. And I'd just go along with like, sure, okay. And so I'd go along with it. And like as soon as I found alcohol, like wasn't all that tasty right away, but you know, you kind of think it's going to be better than what it is. You try it for the first time, you're like, I thought this was going to be a little bit more palatable. But over time, like, you know, try it again and again. And like as you're with other people like social group, oh, okay, well, they're doing it, like we're giggling having fun. Like this is maybe just what I get to do to fit in and like be a part of that group for a bit. And I didn't really think much about it. And then as it drifted into, you know, like high school, little parties here and there and people get together and drink a little bit more than one or two. And then as it got to college, you know, I'd go do class during the day. And then like as things kind of moved into, you know, the weekend, I would have a little bit more and a little bit more. And then so like my habits and behaviors in my 20s was like, don't really drink throughout the week. And then maybe a Friday, let loose or a Saturday, let loose and varied like how much I would have. And then slowly to the point where it was like creeping in a little bit more and more as I moved into college. And I had more than one DWI in college. Like I got a little wild and thought I could drive home from the downtown establishment, you know, wasn't, you know, and so not that, you know, anything catastrophic happened. I don't take that lightly. It did play a role though, because I could see like, okay, well, here's a sign that this maybe isn't really working so well. Then also like feedback from, you know, girlfriends, people I dated or like family members that my behavior the night before wasn't all that great. Or, you know, like a boss telling me that my productivity is an on point, you know, that I'm kind of slack in here. So I was getting outside feedback. And to your question though, like where it's where it kind of started or where it kind of kicked off was like, I had a DWI again. And I was like, I told myself I wasn't going to do that. And yet here I am, like sitting here side of the road pulled over and like, I thought I told myself wasn't going to do it. And all the all that's going in my head is like, this is logic speaking. And it wasn't logic at that point that was really driving it. And so I'm sure everyone that's listening to this because probably had a time where like they whether they had a drink or had a cookie or a cupcake or something that they've told themselves I was going to have that the potluck tonight. And you're like, why am I still doing this? As you're still choosing it. And that was that was kind of where it was at for me. And then I was, you know, I was in that spot kind of facing like, well, this doesn't feel good. The feedback in my life is this isn't really giving me the results I want. Maybe I need to look at something different. And so while I wasn't court ordered to do anything, I started looking at like, well, maybe I'll just do this myself. And so I did a drive, a sober October. So I was like, what 12 years ago or a little bit more. And then, you know, did that that almost went all the way to 30 days. I kind of like gave up after the last like week. I was like, ah, it's Halloween's here. Why not. And then I went right back to where I started. And then, you know, holidays go through. And I was like, I feel terrible come New Year's. And I was like, wait a minute, I tried this thing to like shift it around. And now I'm right back where I started New Year's Day. And so I did a drive January. And I didn't even make it to the 31st on that one, you know, you kind of do the New Year's resolutions, get all fired up. And now, you know, fourth week of January, I'm drinking, you know, on a Tuesday night with friends and a ski, you know, ski van. And then I was like, well, either I'm going to do this February thing, whether I got a short month, or maybe I got to look at something different. I thought, well, 28 days looks pretty good. But that's what that's the point where I stopped and looked like, oh, maybe it could go somewhere else and maybe with support. So I started looking at like, what else is out there? Again, not court ordered, but I just knew like, I did a sober October, a dry January, and neither of them seem like their shift in the relationship. And so then I was like, well, if I really want to start feeling different or seeing something different, maybe I'll look at support. Then all that was really out there was like, inpatient, outpatient and AA that I saw, maybe a few books or something at that point. But I went and checked out an outpatient treatment program just naive, didn't really know anything about them. Really nice people, you know, they walk in there and like, Oh, hey, yeah, how's it going? And turns out they had a program that was once a week, two hours. And you show up and you talk with a psychologist, you know, go into emotion driven behaviors. And my insurance paid for it. So it was really, you know, out of pocket costs. And so I thought, well, what do I got to lose? Sign me up, I guess. It's only a couple hours a night, once a week. No big deal. And that was really great. I actually really enjoyed that as much as like, it gets a bad rap. It was kind of auditing a college course. Though the first night I walked in, there's a mixed group of people in there. Various. I didn't know what I was getting into. But after I went to the first night, I was like, okay, people are here for different reasons, different backgrounds. Though who is guiding it made a big difference. But all the while through that, it was more about emotion driven behaviors. And so they would touch on like things and like hold you accountable each week. But for me, like, they told me the first night that I was there that only two of the 22 people that were there, like I count on my hands and toes, only two of them would be free of that behavior that they were in one year from now. Wow. So, so they were giving you a 10% success rate essentially, not even less than that 9%. Yeah. It's horrible. So I did that. And then like, they recommend after that, like, well, if this works, like, you know, just keep having support. And so they, they really just kind of like funnel you into either AA or a faith based, you know, accountability group of sorts. And so I went and checked out AA after I did that for eight weeks, a different conversation. It's like, you go from having like a college professor, you know, someone that's trained in psychology and stuff leading somewhat of a curriculum, large and part driven by a governmental system, to then a book that was written about 100 years ago that kind of fits the mentality of the, of that time. So a different conversation. It was just heavier, a lot of guilt and shame, you know, people hanging their heads, different backgrounds. And my initial thought was like, I don't know if I fit in here. This is a whole different, whole different group or all different community of people. And while it's worked for thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, if not millions, I'm not here to knock it. I could just feel right away like, I'm not sure I want to be here. This didn't feel fun. It's not the path of progress. So I'm see. So I have been in those rooms. Yeah, long question or long answer to a question. So wrapping it back around, I did that for several months. I was like, four and a half months alcohol free, I had right before taking a vacation, I'd stopped going to AA and I went on vacation to Hawaii. So I'd stopped going was like, I don't really like showing up these things. I feel heavier every time I go. But I was alcohol free. And so I was getting some of the benefits of like sleep and feeling good in the morning. But then I go on that vacation, choose alcohol the first night with friends. I was like, I'll just see what it's like. Nobody's watching me. I'm doing this because I wanted to. I wasn't a court order or anything. So I try it. And sure enough, I have one, no big deal. Didn't turn from Jekyll to Hyde. And then have another. And then, okay, I feel like I kind of got a grasp on this thing. And then fast forward, the next night, okay, a little bit more next night, a little bit more. And you can kind of see where this is going is by night four, we're a little bit more a little bit earlier in the day. And like that fifth day, I'd like missed out on all the events that we had planned in the morning, like whale watching and going out and seeing like, you know, sunrise on the beach. And I'm headache, you know, the sun's beaten down on me on that fifth day. Like as I'm walking to the store to get like some Gatorade and, you know, something to calm my headache. And I'm going like, how to after like four and a half months of inpatient or excuse me, outpatient treatment with like a psychologist, AA, you know, and a bunch of people all like giving me input, how am I still right back to where I start? And that's the moment when I was like, Oh, like I took an aspirin this morning because I had a headache. I was drinking alcohol. Like, and the I was looking at the aspirin, like I take aspirin to cure headache. I'm wondering if I take alcohol to cure whatever state I'm in. And I'm not really looking at the states that I experience on a regular basis that are then driving me to go pick up something like alcohol as soon as I land in like Hawaii or what that's supposed to be. So that's when I was like, well, if I had a headache and all I did is take aspirin, but it didn't give me the result. Well, I'd stop and go like, why am I having headache? So why don't I start going to look at why I'm choosing behavior that's no longer serving me. And that was the moment when I was like, I need to go deeper than this because whatever I was, I was in before just wasn't putting it. Now maybe it does in some of those programs, but I didn't find it in four and a half months. And I'm sure other people experienced the same thing. So that led me on a path to look at like books, seminars, like everything from leadership or emotional intelligence programs to like another end of the spectrum with meditation or energetics or like yoga, like there's a variety of things we can dig into. But it was like, it was looking at more of what's at the root of what's driving the behavior rather than symptom manage to answer. Yeah. So that's interesting. So the outpatient support and AA, did they try to get to the root calls of why people are wanting to drink alcohol as well, but it just didn't resonate with you? Or was it more like just don't drink alcohol? And you referenced there like you're trying to, you went on your own path after doing the outpatient and AA to go and find what is the root cause of why you're actually desiring alcohol in the first place, but you mustn't have been able to get that from those other modalities. That's a great question. So while I feel that they mean well, so I'm not here to knock other programs because I think that wouldn't do justice for some of the people that find benefit in that. But for myself looking at, let's say outpatient, we talked a lot about how it impacts the body, how it impacts the minds. And we did touch on a few things about emotions, but nobody's holding me accountable to really look at the deep stuff. I could just be BSing them the whole time like that. And a lot of people that go there are there not because they want to be there. And a lot of them go because the court or their spouse or like no health reason or something. They're not really choosing it. But to answer your question, I feel like it's a lot of the surface level stuff and you can continue to go do some of that deeper work. Maybe you find it, maybe you don't. With AA, 12 steps, okay? Been adapted to a variety of different behaviors. Smoking, gambling, sex. And so there's something they're touching on there. One of the things I've found beyond doing those programs is the intention behind some of the language. So if I look at, let's say a first step, in the first step, they talk about a surrendering. It wasn't step one, fight alcohol. And this is something to write down. I remind myself all the time that resistance comes from fighting against or putting power somewhere else. And so if I resist a thought or resist the craving, it's going to persist. And so their first step, I feel it kind of nails it and it's a letting go. It's a surrendering is the term that they use, but just a letting go. There's no power over there to begin with. I'm putting it there. And then you could go up a few other levels like let's say a fourth step. Fourth step, they talk a little bit about getting rid of some of the guilt and shame, essentially. It's like go talk to or make amends with people that you feel that your drinking has impacted. Okay, great. I'm like moving some emotion. But that doesn't get at the root at when I'm frustrated in traffic or that doesn't get at the root at why I have a poor mentality about how I perceive myself in the workplace. So there's some things I see really missing while there's like a spiritual component, some other things. I feel that some of the language and how they try to find access is not hitting the listening to where we're at. We can go pretty deep into that. Got it. So if I'm hearing you correctly, there are a couple of things from those modalities that were helpful, but mostly you found them unhelpful as evidenced by the fact that you were back drinking back to square one again after, I think you said you got to four months alcohol free was the longest you go on after trying both AA and this outpatient treatment center. Is that right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say that it's also like the intention behind some of that language. Is it okay to share a screen on here or any of your listeners, I can put a link in the show. You should share a screen, but I would just describe what you're showing for the podcast listeners who won't be able to see it. Absolutely. So what I'll do is I'm sharing screen right now. If you're watching this on, let's say the YouTube channel for those that are watching or listening in audio format on the podcast, what I'm showing right now is if I were to take my emotions and put it almost like a ladder from heavy at the bottom to light, I'm showing a list of emotions and at the bottom is guilt and shame. Now many people when you talk to them from having checked out an AA room, they may reflect back that like, yeah, it felt kind of like there's a lot of guilt or shame or like heaviness around what I felt in what they're bringing up in those conversations. And what I'm showing on the screen is really just as you move from the heaviness towards the top, which is lighter things like peace and joy. It goes from contracted way down at the bottom to expanded. And the image I have comes from a book by Dr. David Hawkins known as Power Versus Force. It's a book that you can find on Amazon. You can Google it. But it's just a great representation of like, if I'm talking about, let's say alcohol, and I'm like, come on James, you got to really get it together. You got to pick it up like all these things that you damaged in your life, you really got to take it. I'm going to start looking at this from that heavy lens. It's contracted. I'm going to feel like I'm suffering. Whereas if I'm looking at it from let's say an elevated state up the ladder where I see reason or acceptance of where I've been, it's going to feel much more expanded. I mean, choosing to look at like, huh, I don't think this is very effective of what it's creating in my life. Let's look at something different. And so if I just raise the intention, perhaps I could see a new possibility of what's actually occurring in real time. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. What happened afterwards? What happened when you said that you went in and you started looking at books and taking seminars and leadership and looked at emotional intelligence and started playing around with energetics and yoga? Was that when you had the breakthrough and now you've been 12 years alcohol free or did you try a few things and go back to drinking, try again, go back to drinking? What was the segue into this current 12 years of alcohol free living? Great question. So I have not had an alcoholic drink since that time that I talked about in Hawaii. So that was not 12 years ago and some odd change, 12 years and five months. So that was the last time when you were in Hawaii, was it? Yeah. When I was in Hawaii and that really kicked it all. Like after I came back from that vacation, I said, all right, I'm trying to figure out basically what was at the root of headache? You know what I mean? Like let's go to the root rather than like symptom manage and give an aspirin. And so I looked at a few books, like Power Versus Forces, one of them, some of those books that led way to a few different, like another book I like to recommend is on stress and patterns. It's called The Five Personality Patterns. The Five Personality Patterns by Stephen Kessler. And really all it looks at is in response to outside stressors. What are one or two of the responses that I have and looking at is it effective or ineffective? When I start looking at the tools of what I initially like put in place and I meet it with, I may go no wonder I'm getting the results I get because I keep doing the same thing. And now you can get out of the trap of that. And the book will go into a little bit more of your style, other people's style, but I always recommend that one because it's good to know thyself because many people choose to drink alcohol because they're having a stressful week or something happened that they don't want. So getting new tools in that area. And it actually talks about things beyond just thought. It goes into the body of where to put awareness and where to move things through the system. The piece that kind of really kicked it off for me where I really felt a pop and a shift was when I started to realize that it was all just like I was putting power there. I was resisting for that like four and a half months. Let's call it where I was just showing myself that I could do it. I could not drink alcohol, but I wasn't really truly living. And so the point that it shifted was when I realized like, am I really all in? Am I 100% committed or am I 99% committed in below? If I'm 99% committed, well, it's going to be resistant. Like I'm going to wish it was some other way. Like I could still moderate. I could still drink. Right now I'm just 100% committed because it serves me. Now the thing is too that I never say that I've quit always and I will never go back and people ask me this day, 12 years alcohol free. Am I going to have a drink? I like to laugh and tell them, I don't know. Maybe when I'm 80, I'll just say, come on, bring on the whiskey. I'll know when I get there. For me, I like to let go of the mind needing certainty. And I'll just go, okay, we'll choose what serves me now. And so that's a question I come back to again and again. What serves me now? And I look in terms of like, not just today, but like in the next few weeks or the next couple of months. It's not like I have to do this day by day. I'm not thinking about this day by day. Instead, it's just, what serves me now? At 36 years old, maybe in the next couple, three years, something will shift and I think wildly different. I think a great thing to remind myself too is like, I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. Everyone I asked the question like, are you the same person you were 10 years ago? Everyone tells me, no, I'm different. So I'm shifting and changing over time. How do I know what I'll want? 10 years from now, maybe I'll want wine or whiskey or whatever. Maybe that's effective to them. I'll figure it out when I get there. So it's really a trick of letting the mind go that there's no like black and white up quit or I'm drinking. It's what serves me now. A lot of our members who joined one of our various programs, a lot of what I hear from them in the beginning is, do I have to quit forever? Or I want to quit forever, but I just don't believe that I will be able to. Or I really want to quit for a time, but then I just want to be able to have a drink on occasion. So what's your experience been with that? Or how do you coach people through those kind of fears or resistance or plans when they bring one of those scenarios to you? That's a good question that comes up often. And I had those questions early on too. I was like, will this be always and forever? Or if I say I'm going to quit, do I know myself to do it? What's it going to be like if I never have a drink? Let's say at a wedding. I'm not having the worst time ever and I got to get out of it. Maybe it's just because I want to join in on the toast. Is that what I want? So I like to look at it from the lens that whatever I choose, I'm going to come at it from what's effective or ineffective. So that's the first basis of it. Then what's effective for now is going to be influenced by my results so far. So if I start seeing it trending, well, it's because if I started, I only had evidence of what it was like to drink. I haven't had evidence of what it's like not to drink. So let's give myself a little bit of time. So in one of our programs, we like to look at 90 days. And then from there, okay, let's see what evidence you have of does this seem to serve you? From there, well, it doesn't have to be black and white, you know, do this or that only. For me, I just go, okay, if this feels like it's progressing, let's double down. And for me, the thought about like, well, can I just have one once in a while? For me, the studies have shown that it's not just about the one drink. It's about now I've opened the door to the relationship to go back to the way it was, unless there was some impetus to have change. It's kind of like the idea that if James, you hadn't driven a car for 20 years and I threw you a set of keys, you probably could step in, put the keys in, know what to do and where to take it. Because you have all of the neural net associations of how to put it in drive, you know, put the blinker on all because you've done it so many times, it's just second nature. Well, we haven't done anything different to rewire something different. So of course, you put one drink in front of me, it's just going to go, I've done this for 10,000 plus hours, I know what to do, right? And but for me, I come back to the question of, oh, okay, I could do that, I could have the one drink. But is that effective? It's just for me, I see poison, and it's never given me the results in life that I want. And now with evidence over not just a few months, not a few years, like I have so much evidence of how this serves me. Oh, I asked myself, like, why would I go back? So that's what I go to. I'm the same, like I don't say ever that I'm not going to drink again. I just say that I'm, I'm just living the alcohol free lifestyle. I'm not ruling it out. But, you know, I'm also a big believer in double down on what works. So when I quit alcohol in 2010, after 30 days, I'd lost 13 pounds, and I was sleeping better. And I got my dream job. And, you know, everything was kind of firing. I'm like, okay, well, the evidence seemed to suggest that this is working. So I should just keep going with this. Why would I then quote unquote celebrate by going back to the very thing that I was trying to escape makes no sense. And then I got to 60 days and some, some other things happened and improved and I was sleeping even better. And I started lifting some weights and I just, you know, just generally felt better. I thought, okay, I'll just double down on that. I'll just keep going and got to a year. And then after two years, I'm like, well, this still seems to work. I remember actually, I remember when I first realized that I was actually really solid in my commitment to being alcohol free. I was in a place outside of Parea in the country of Columbia in 2012. And I was on a trip with a, I was, I'd had a short romance with a Colombian woman there. And we were in this place and we were sitting in a pool and these, these kind of like springs afterwards. And she drank and she was sitting there going, come on, have a drink. And I was like, no, I'm not. So like, if any, if ever I was ever going to be tempted to have a drink, it would have been while I'm in Columbia in some hot springs with a wonderful Colombian woman on a romantic kind of break or romantic weekend. And she's kind of like, you know, almost like seductively trying to tempt me with alcohol. And I still remain steadfast and like, oh no, I'm good. And just felt confident. I was like, oh, okay, this is interesting. Like, I didn't crack under that pressure, you know, like, and for me, it was just like, it's not that I'm never going to quit because she kept asking me like, so, so you, are you always going to drink? Like, when are you going to be able to drink again? And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe I'll drink tomorrow. Maybe I'll drink tonight. Maybe I'll drink next week. I don't know. But for now, I just, this is being alcohol free works for me seems to work. I'm just going to keep doing it. And, you know, it's been 10 and a half years now for me since 2010. That's just why I don't, I don't understand why people can even try to make an argument that I should go back to that, you know, but it also doesn't mean that I'll judge myself if I do. That's a key point you bring up too is like, because we've had people that are like, you know, I tried it and then I have that drink and I feel guilt and shame. And I go, well, who put guilt and shame there? Was it, was it like the alcohol company? Was it like the aspirin you took the next day? Like, for me, it's like, I put guilt and shame there. I'm the one that said those results feel like I said before, like heavy or suffering as like, what my results were now that I'm making it with the meaning of bad or wrong. For me, I'm taking that out now and it's like, what's effective and effective. I chose things. That was my past. Here's the results. Okay, now, like you said, like 10 years later, these are results. I'm choosing that that feels good. But if I had a drink, so let's say I went out like 20 years later and I have a drink, would I have to feel guilt and shame? No, I could choose it, see what the results are and go, is that effective or ineffective? I probably right away know what's, what's real just based on the results. It wouldn't take long for you to find the results. Now, I'm not really tempted to go do that knowing like, you know, what it feels like to go back to like, I'll get out of a routine back to day one again. I think that's something to really think about. It's not just like, oh, it's the one drink. It's the getting in a routine of things, going back to like I said, with the car key analogy, like driving the car, just like, oh, I know how to do this, getting back into a week or two into with going out on happy hour and weekends. And for what? Like, what is that really going to give me? I think this is a fun thing to dig into too, is like, why did I choose the drink? You know, just like the woman, you know, have a drink with me. It's like, what is that going to add to the hot springs? If I can find access to feeling present, relaxed, have good time feeling fully self-expressed, I think those are the things that start to cultivate is how do we give ourselves permission for the states that we want to feel? Because I've had a good time with alcohol. I've had a bad time with alcohol. I've had a good time without and I've had a bad time without. Who's the common denominator? This guy. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing is, I found as well, and I'm sure you have also, is that a lot of members, sometimes they'll try to talk themselves into justifying, having an occasional drink. And because we just said, well, no one's going to judge you, who are we to judge and who are you to judge yourself? And so they go, oh, great. There's no judgment. So I'll have the drink. And then of course, they have the drink, which turns into two or three often, or turns into like more of a, like the slippery slope is very slippery, isn't it? It can be. I'm not saying in every situation, but it can be slippery. And all of a sudden that, you know, they've used that justification or they've taken a little bit of your coaching or my coaching, and they've taken what they feel is permission then to be able to have a drink without being judged. And now all of a sudden they're back, back to square one. So it's, I don't know whether it's tricky or whether it's simple, but I don't think what I don't think what Kevin and I are encouraging you is like, oh, if you want to have a drink, have a drink, if you know deep down that having a drink just doesn't serve you. Like if you have, if you've had years of evidence that you're drinking habits, don't serve you. And by not serving you, what I mean is, is that you're irritable. You don't sleep as well. You're not as present for your kids or your husband or your wife or your family. You're not as productive as you could be. Your experience of life is six out of 10 instead of feeling like an eight or nine out of 10. Like if you know it doesn't serve you, then why would you then take the permission that we're not going to judge you if you have a drink as a, as a catalyst for you drinking? Like, so, I don't know. Can you speak to that? Yeah, absolutely. Like, like you could go choose that, right? You could go choose that knowing that it likely doesn't serve. And here's my litmus test of what serves me. Like some of the stuff I looked at when I was, you know, after that vacation was Tony Robin stuff. Many people go to him for personal development. He talks about human behavior and what drives it to things, pleasure and pain, which is essentially just the lack of pleasure. So if I, if I stop and look at it for myself, like looking back, I had, I'd anchored pleasure with alcohol. And I would choose it because I think that, okay, this will let me feel XYZ. But what I wasn't present to was all of the pain or lack of pleasure that was creating my life. And you got to ask yourself, if you're listening to this, like, what's the grand sum of my relationship with this? Is it pleasure or the lack of pleasure? If you weight those two things together, I'm going to guess it's a pretty imbalanced scale where there's a lot of displeasure, lack of pleasure, pain, whatever you want to call it, and very little pleasure for the moments that are there. If you're listening to this, and I think it's different for each person, they can choose for themselves what that's, what the truth is and what they feel. And you get to be the judge of that out there. However, if you're anything like me, it was like, you know, I had pleasurable times, then the next thing is, was it the alcohol that gave me pleasure? Or was I in a place, maybe with friends or alone? And I had a pleasurable time and I just chose alcohol, which brought the states or experiences to the surface, maybe quickly or more readily. But I was the human being, they're having the experience in the state. I can't seem to find like, if you go dissect alcohol, that there's a particular emotion or a chemical emotion found in the alcohol. In fact, it's just, it's ethanol, it's something that's like poisoning the body. And like, and when I look at it from that lens, it's like, what does alcohol really do? Well, it just shuts down faculties of the mind. We all kind of know when you get fuzzy, right? Like, oh, hey, I'm checking out, I can't, you know, balance or speech or things get impaired. What does that give access to that feels pleasurable? Well, one of those things that shuts down is the critic, that judgment faculty of the mind where it's like, oh, don't do that, or don't go on stage and sing karaoke, or don't go hug that person right now. But when we let ourselves become fully self expressed, it starts to feel good. And so with that little piece quieted down, well, that feels really good, right? Could I get access to that without the same thing? Well, now then, when I look back, pain pleasure, maybe what is occurring is I have more displeasure or pain, whatever you want to lack of pleasure. And the pleasure piece of it is actually what I'm bringing to the table to begin with. And just alcohol just happens to shut down one of the pieces that's in the way, but I could still find access to it if I learned over a little bit of time to just give myself permission to feel what I want to feel. One of the exercises that I have our Project 90 members do on one of our weekly group calls is for 10 minutes, I just have them write down their top 10 most memorable experiences in life, something that gave them joy, pleasure, comfort. It could include the birth of a child, it could include wedding day or getting a diploma. It could be being in the Greek islands and partying and having fun, just write that down, look over your life. And most of the people who are in Project 90 tend to be 40s plus. We've got a few in the mid to late 30s, but there's people who can look back at life in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s often because we've got people who are in the 60s and 50s in that program as well. And I play some music in the background and I just have them get into a beautiful state where they're remembering the top 10 joyous moments of their life. And then we stop the clock and they come back and they start to share. And we go around the group and they start to share what the thing, people list out what was memorable and why, etc. And what's really interesting, a pattern has emerged. Most of the things on the top 10 list did not involve alcohol at all. And of the ones that did involve alcohol, they realized and recognized that it wasn't alcohol that made the event special. Alcohol was just present. The thing that made it special was because they were overseas with friends, enjoying the moment, or it was special because they were celebrating the birth of their child, even though they went out and got drunk and whatever and drank champagne and blah, blah, blah, blah. Alcohol was present, but that wasn't why they were happy. They were happy because they just had a child. All right. So alcohol was present. And it's so fascinating to see kind of like the aha moment on some of the members' faces and certainly what they express when they do that exercise because they realize that actually they've been giving so much mental power to alcohol. They've been giving it more reward or more, what's the word I'm looking for? All of a sudden, I've drawn a mind blank. What am I trying to say? Yeah, exactly. They're giving it more significance than it deserves. The way you're sharing it with me is clear in mind is the special occasion, but it's in light of what's occurring in front of me. And for me, alcohol, all it ever did was allow me to check out. Why would I want to check out from the things I want to be present to? I think that's an interesting question. What's happened over those 12 years then of you being alcohol-free? What shifts have you seen in yourself? And then secondly, what shifts have people told you that they've noticed in you from those people who knew you when you were drinking and now when you're not drinking for a dozen years? What have they shared with you? I don't know if I'm ready to recount 12 years, it's a long time. Initially, the shifts weren't massive and I say that for emphasis because some people think going alcohol-free, magic bullet, life's amazing. Well, it's not quite that easy. For me, it's like alcohol-free great. There's going to be some base level things that shift, like sleep, some things around energy. But some of the things I really want to see a next level with, I need to actually put in some work with the energy and clarity and focus that I got back. So the things that initially started to improve were productivity at work. Now that I'm clear in mind, I can be more productive or I could put in more emphasis in the area of work. And so I went from a career where I was just getting by and I shifted that, moved into a whole another realm of career, like went into development of housing, affordable housing. So I created a development company under a company I was with, which was great. That shifted into software. So we built software for that industry. Okay, great. That shifted into then marketing for those softwares. There's more than one that I worked with, both of which are alive and working today. We're a million dollars in revenue and serve thousands of people now. That then shifted into, well, podcasters or people that were out there asking me questions, hey, how do you do it? How do you market things and get it to work online? That led into us working together. And so it started, I guess you call it a small services-based business for marketing and furthering messages that matter. And then from here, shifting into coaching. So that's in the career field. I don't think I would have seen a light of day in like a business that actually worked if I was still drinking. And if I did, I would guess that the results would be very muted. I'd be like, I'd probably get somewhere like maybe a third of what the results were in terms of like, just because you don't have the same presence in the interactions with clients or with team members. I'm not able to easily keep my integrity with my word. That's something I started to work with. I was like, where does that get to really matter? When I say I'm going to do something or I show up on time. And that then started to increase my self-esteem. So it's like it comes back to working on the things that matter. Then I had, in the area of career, I had things reflected back to me that they really liked the version of self that's showing up, especially now as I've shifted into coaching and like some of the things I'm reflecting back. Like, did you know you're really meant for this or really cut out for this sort of thing? And I always blush and like, you know, small town guy, you know, just like, oh, thanks, I appreciate it. But it feels really good when that comes about. Then in relationships, for me, I was really surface level with friends and intimate partners. And that a lot of the times just wasn't working. Like I wasn't really able to go deep, especially in crucial conversations, the things that matter, which kind of leads to the idea that like the highs feel really good when people go alcohol-free. They're like, yeah, I feel amazed. I go out and brush a marathon or half-marathon or something. I have people doing that right now. Like one of them strut in the program is like, let's get 100 miles in before the end of the year or something, you know, or like bike, you know, 1000 miles in the month. But I think the highs feel good with this path. It's really those things that are what we would consider low spots in life and how we meet those differently. Because life still gets to be life. And when I'm present to something like a car accident or, you know, I was even sued in business, like we had like, you know, errors in emissions and insurance that covered it. You know, it was a very simple matter. It wasn't anything that someone did wrong, but of course they wanted compensation. And so like, the old me would have been like, oh shoot, we're done for. But the current version of me was like, how do we meet this? We actually got a result without doing, you know, the full legal process. Or, you know, like death in the family, I had like friends that commit suicide. Like those things are not easy to go through. Though for me, being present to those things, now I can meet and move through those experiences rather than running away from the things in life I don't want to look at. That to me is more important. Really easy to like shout from the rooftops. Things are amazing. I'd rather move through the low stuff faster so I can get on the other side. And then a couple other things reflected back. I think, like you mentioned, like me showing up more, that was a thing that was really, I think I would check out. When I call it the turtle, like I would just hide in my shell and hope things blow over. And that was something I still had to work with years and years and years, but over time, it got better and easier and things that, you know, were really difficult for me, especially around the stress patterns I talked about, started looking at it. I'm like, maybe I get to look at things differently. And while those triggers are things that were upsetting, they're still there today. The game becomes how quickly do I get off it? Like how fast do I get off of the trigger, the upset, the thing that is in the way? Yeah, wonderful. And without naming names, maybe you can give us a couple of examples of folks who you have coached through Project 90, who's made maybe a dramatic notable shift, transformation, and maybe someone who's just made like a subtle shift. Because you just said there, you were talking about how it's not like you've made a shift and all of a sudden, you're like, life is so amazing. It's fantastic. And you're skipping down the street all the time. You just have this ability to be able to get through the crap of your life or what feels like the crap of your life a lot quicker to get into a state where it's like, yeah, life is good. Life is going. And at the very least, life is not crappy. Life doesn't suck. So it's not always about this big dramatic breakthrough, is it? It's not always about like, wow, you see this in a lot of marketing all the time for things. It's like, get this and you will completely transform your life. And that is true. That happens a lot. And we see it a lot in our program. But also there's stuff where it's like, the transformation happens on a less grandiose kind of level, isn't it? It's like little things. But those little things cumulatively over time, like compound interest, can just slowly but surely and gradually just improve your experience of life. So have you got a couple of examples that you're able to share? Yeah. So for me, the ones that are really fun to see the winds is when somebody is losing, let's say, 20, 30 pounds over the course of 30 months. And they're like, holy cow, I'm back to what I remember in the mirror when you look at it. And that feels good, right? Now, I'll say that when somebody does that, it's not because they just took the alcohol out. Sorry, guys. There's some calories in there and things shift up. A lot of people trade alcohol and then they go to sugar. And so if you put one thing in that is just as bad or negates it as the alcohol itself, you're not going to get anywhere. But the ones that I've worked with, it's like they take out the alcohol and they're like, awesome, let's go. Let's start living in terms of what does body and energy and stamina look like. So it's like 20, 30 pounds, totally attainable if you're doing the work. The next, there's a gentleman that I worked with and he wanted more presents with his kids. And that's a tough thing to quantify, right? How do you know when you're more present with your kids? To me, it's the feedback. It's like when their daughter reflected back to him like, dad, I'm so proud of you. He's like, he couldn't have said any words that would have hit home harder than dad, I'm so proud of you. And she didn't even say about the drinking, but he knew. It's like I was present and with her for these last three months. She'd just graduated. So she'd moved on to the next chapter in her life. But just getting that back is like, oh, wow, that's what I've been looking for. And so those little moments with another one. Here's a fun one. So some people think I'll just make crazy money maybe in my business if I'm more productive, which can be true. I find that there's a couple of people I'm thinking of in particular. I'm trying not to name names here because I want their permission, but there's a couple of people specifically there in sales. And they said, I'm not necessarily making more money, but it's far more in flow because I'm attracting a different conversation or I'm attracting a different caliber of client. Now, inevitably their income did increase, but they're like, I'll take the same pay all day if it's the same type of clients. I think that's way more fun than working harder, let's say, kill more hours in the day, more frustration. So those are a couple of things maybe. Another fun one too is when you look at self-trust coming back. So we've had some people that have had self-confidence issues where they're like, I can kill it in the area of leadership or in the workplace. And that's where they quote-unquote have their strong suit. I can kill it there. But then they lack the self-trust of what I do when I get home or with self-care or working out or food. And to have that trust back as they're making progress with what they commit to, committing to 90 days, then they're like, well, if I can see 90 days, what else can I do? And so they're getting that confidence back of what else in my life gets to shift. And then they start seeing things around health. Because many people choose to go alcohol-free and continue. And so I'm starting to see them too. Like six months later, like send me messages back. And now I just am signed up and completed this marathon. Or like now I just lost another 20 pounds. I'm back to my high school weight or something crazy. So I hope that gives some tangible ha-has of what could be possible. I can name names because the names I'm about to name have given us permission to share their story. And in actual fact, some of our enrollers for one of our programs, Project 90. So John Keltner is a gentleman who lives in California. He is the son. He's someone who lost, I think he ended up losing like 20 pounds, 25 pounds. Is that right, Kevin? Definitely 25. It might even have been a little bit more, but at least 25. He was going to his local bar and he would usually order, I think it was a vodka soda. But he then got a new nickname, which is the Soda Cranman, because he now drinks soda water with a splash of cranberry juice. And so when he walks in, he still goes to the bar, but he's been alcohol-free now since December 2018. He joined our program and got your coaching from December 2018. And he's, you know, for three months. But now he's still, he's chosen to live the alcohol-free lifestyle ongoing. And yeah, he's the Soda Cranman now. So lost a lot of weight. Another lovely woman, Roseanne, who lives in Arizona. I think Roseanne must be, as we're recording this, how many months alcohol-free is Roseanne now, Kevin? She's actually getting close to seven months now. Getting close to seven months, yeah. So Roseanne, to speak to Roseanne, Roseanne lost her self-confidence, or she shared with us that she lost her self-confidence from her drinking. And then the moment that she, or not the moment, but like along the path of removing alcohol from her life, she said she got her confidence back. And that's a running theme, isn't it, through people who choose to quit alcohol. They seem to just get a boost of self-confidence again. It just seems to come flooding back. And in addition, Roseanne lost, I think, 20-something pounds as well. And her blood pressure dropped dramatically. That's another one. Yeah, blood pressure is like, it just, people think like, oh, well, like, how will it impact health? Well, like some people have completely removed blood pressure medication. It's incredible. And then someone else, and then Russell, Belcher, he's given me permission to use his name as well. 44-year-old father of two lives in Australia, on the east coast of Australia. And he was a gentleman, he was in a high-powered job, but was drinking a lot of booze every night to deal with stress and anxiety, the pressures of being newly married and having two kids to take care of. His job took him to a rural part of New South Wales, a state in Australia. And all of a sudden, he had no friends and no social network there. There was pressure with that. He was drinking, I think, in his words, copious amounts of alcohol. And then he joined us and got the benefit of your coaching. And he's now, as we're recording this, six months and more alcohol-free, as I understand it. So, you know, Roseanne's in her 60s. John Keltoner, I think, is in his late 40s. And then you have Russell in the 40s. And by the way, if you're listening or watching this, those three that I mentioned, John, Roseanne and Russell, are all now enrollers in our program. And if you did want to speak with them personally about their experience going through Project 90 or just, you know, chat with them about their experience of being alcohol-free, then you're certainly invited to do so. You can schedule a call with them. If you're in the U.S. at the moment and you're on a mobile phone, you can just send the word Project 90 to the number 44222. When I say send, I mean, send a text message. It's just, just write Project 90, one word, to the number 44222. And I'll text you back a calendar link there. And you can schedule to have a conversation with either John or Russell or Roseanne. And likewise, if you want to see some of their stories or some of those stories of people who are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, who've successfully chosen to choose alcohol-free, then you can just go to JamesSwanick.com slash Project 90. And there's a whole, I think there's like probably 20 videos there now of stories of folks who've had the benefit of Kevin's coaching and are now leading the alcohol-free lifestyle. So look, I want to wrap this up. And I want to say this. First of all, I just want to say thank you, Kevin, for giving us your time on today's call. And I want to thank and acknowledge you for the wonderful work that you have been doing and that you're continuing to do in helping people live an alcohol-free lifestyle and make a transformation in their life, whether it's a huge, big, grandiose, massive monster transformation, or whether it's a more subtle, slower transformation, you are changing people's lives. So I want to say thank you for that and to acknowledge you for that. And also just encourage anyone who's listening, please do reach out to Kevin and ask questions, post in the comments down below, ask him a question. Like I said, you can probably connect with him if you connect with Roseanne or John or Russell first. And certainly you'll get to know him particularly well, if indeed, that you choose to join us in our 90-day program, Project 90. Any final words, Kevin, to our listener or to our viewer about an alcohol-free lifestyle? As a first, I want to say thank you about that. I don't take it lightly, even if it's just one life that's had a shift for me, it's worth it. One thing that I didn't really touch on that I think is worth just mentioning quick is I see a lot of upgrades around relationships, specifically with intimate partners. And so some people are married and they have deep conversations, some people, they're maybe even divorced, but it's getting to the root of some of those things I'm still carrying in those things and getting real. And so if you're also having thoughts about that area and could there be a shift, we have so many people feel more free in that area because of it. But lastly, to any listeners out here, I just want to let you know like, for me, I'm 12 years, I didn't say I've quit always and forever. James is 10 years and he still doesn't say I'll never have one ever again. So I want us to just let you guys know, you can take the pressure off. It's not about like, for me, it's more about like, am I willing to go see some upgrades for a little bit just to know, is it worth it? Is that effective? Would that be worth it? So that's all I have for now. Kevin Shueweiler from Project 90 and the Alcohol Free Lifestyle. Thank you so much, mate. Really appreciate your time and your guidance and your commitment and to the listener or to the viewer. Thank you for listening and thank you for watching and we'll catch you on the next one. Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Free Lifestyle podcast. I want to load you up with some free stuff right now. So if you want to go to JamesSwanick.com slash guide, I will send you my quit alcohol guide, which has helped six figure entrepreneurs and top professionals produce or quit drinking. You can also text the word quit guide to the number 44222 if you're in the US, of course, it doesn't really work anywhere outside of the US. But if you're in the US on your mobile phone and you'd like that guide, text the word quit guide to the number 44222 or you can go to JamesSwanick.com slash guide. If you'd like to schedule a free 15 minute call with one of my top coaches, just an exploratory call to see if or how we can help you, then you can go to JamesSwanick.com slash schedule or you can text the word project 90 to the number 44222 if you're listening in the US on a mobile phone. That's JamesSwanick.com slash schedule or you can text the word project 90, that's one word, project 90, to the number 44222. Feel free to send me a direct message over on my Instagram account, which is at JamesSwanick. You can also watch video episodes of this podcast and a series of other educational videos on my YouTube channel, which is JamesSwanick1, or you can direct message me on Facebook at JamesSwanickOfficial. And finally, a request. Would you please now write a short review of the podcast inside of the Apple Podcast app on your phone or on iTunes on your desktop computer? Would you please give the show five stars and write a quick one or two sentence review? This will help the show get in front of even more listeners, potentially transforming someone's life. You can rate and review the show inside of your Apple Podcast app on your phone or over on iTunes on your desktop. Thank you so much and I'll catch you next time.