 Mackie Gab episode 1007 for Monday evening, October 30th, 2023. Thanks, folks, and welcome to the second Mackie Gab released, hopefully released today. We're certainly the one intentionally released today. We're normally the show that answers your questions and solves your problems and shares your tips and shares your cool stuff found. And we're going to keep doing that. It's just right now. We just finished watching Apple's scary fast event and we watched it scarily fast. And we're going to talk about it. Pilot Pete couldn't make it. However, we have we have well, what I would like to think is an excellent group of people and me for you today. So here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton. Well, here in Boulder, Colorado, I'm Jeff Gammett. And here in cold South Dakota. I'm Adam Christensen. Thanks for joining us, guys. This is great. Yep. Yeah, it's cold here too in my studio because I set the heat to come on 90 minutes after Apple's event started thinking that would be perfect timing. And Apple's event took 30 minutes. So that was interesting. So by the time we're done recording here, your heat's going to kick on. I'm going to I'm going to I'm just going to keep peeling off layers. So for for those of you that chose to watch the video, I'm sorry. So yeah, or you're welcome. Okay, sure. It's one of those things. Who are we to judge? Who are we? Well, that's scary fast. Like the whole this whole keynote was weird. I'm just freaked out by the whole thing. Are you are you are you were you scared by it, Adam? Are we are we sensing a theme like why is it at five? You know, why was it at five PM Pacific? Why was it 30 minutes? Why was it just like the weirdest keynote I can ever remember Apple doing? Like it's bizarre. And they disappointed me because like we talked about on the last Mackie gab, they weren't all dressed up like for Halloween. No, they all wore black, though. Or they were dark clothing. Black. Yeah, I I am Tim Cook as like, you know, a werewolf or Frankenstein or something. It would have been great. Well, we didn't give him enough time to turn into the werewolf, Adam. I think that still could happen. That's why they had to do it so fast that you get through it before he transformed. I am. I would equate. It's interesting that maybe it's not interesting. This was about Max. Apple announced the new M three line of chips and then the new MacBook Pros based on those and I max based on those. I don't want to say new I max based on those. I just want to say I max based on those. But it reminded me of how we would in the past, we would get like a big deal about iPhones and a big deal about iPads sometimes. And then a press release on a Tuesday morning that was like, oh, yeah, by the way, we speed bumped a couple of max, you know, like that for a long time, Jeff, that like when when we were doing Mac observer together, that was a pattern. Like we we came to expect it like, oh, it's probably going to be, you know, this particular Tuesday that we're going to get that press release. So let's be ready for it. Let's be on the lookout, you know, those kinds of things. Yep. This event reminded me of that. I mean, I know it was an event. I also noticed because I, you know, I guess I was hungry for content. I watched all the way through to the end and I'm trying to find the screenshot that I took, which magically is not here. But but it ended by saying that the entire event was shot on iPhone and and then edited on a Mac. They say all presenters locations and drone footage shot on iPhone 15 pro max. Yep. See, I missed that because I was still in my adrenaline rush from just the whole thing being so fast. And and I hopped up and was was getting ready for this. And so I totally miss that's fascinating. Well, they did they did pan a moonshot across the Apple logo and have a werewolf howl at the end also. So maybe that's when Tim Cook is his. Oh, that that could be that. I missed the I missed the where the I saw the the thing. I did not hear any sound, though. So yeah, there was a there was a distinct howl howl at the moon kind of thing. And then and then that shot that you showed. Yeah, which I mean, I was assumed at least edit it. Like they always edit on a Mac, right? Like I would assume that's not a surprise. Yeah. If if if that is news, that in and of itself, the fact that it's news is the biggest news. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I assume these were all shot on camera red edited on Max using Final Cut Pro. Yeah. And well, at least I was partially right. Partially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about some of these things that that Apple announced. I was going to say I don't want to rehash everything, but in a sense, we just did. Right. But I thought the the to me, the most disappointing thing was the IMAX. So maybe we just dismiss that really quickly unless you guys have anything you want to talk about that. They they did make it abundantly clear that there will not be a 27 inch IMAX without saying they got as close to saying there will not be a 27 inch IMAX by by saying that I'm looking for the little grid. What did they say that there was the IMAX is a 4.5 K screen with the 24 inch. And that is that's that's a good replacement for whatever they said. The same this is the same story they've given in the past, though. Like, yes, their their statement is basically, you know, it's essentially a 27 inches, not 27 inches. No, it's not. It's 24 inches. But they're trying to imply they're they're trying to get us to believe that it's just as good because the resolution is so high. And, you know, why would you need 27 inches anyway? Because it's actually bigger. I know, I know, you know, the problem, Dave, is you did not buy enough of the 27 inch IMAX for Apple to keep making them. I don't know. I got two of them sitting on my floor unused at the moment. One where the screen died and that's why I have a Mac Studio here now. And another one that was I bought a lot of those. Maybe I bought more. Guess so. I guess. Yeah. I guess that's it. And and and I don't now that I have divested myself of reliance on the 27 inch IMAX, I like the flexibility that I have buying a more modular system, either a Mac mini or Mac Studio. And then I can choose my 27 inch or larger screen of my liking. So I get it. But it's also, well, then the IMAX is just not for me and perhaps ever again. And that's OK. Yes, of course. Yeah. Yeah. They've squarely said, I mean, I think it's also them squarely saying, like, look, this is a consumer computer. It's for small businesses. It's for this is not a pro computer. It doesn't have a pro chip. It's not a pro computer. It is for someone who just wants to plop something simple on their desk. They don't want an extra display or any of those complications. And if you want that, hey, guess what? We've got a great Mac mini for you and we've got a great studio. Well, let's let's. So to wrap it up with the IMAX, the it own it quote unquote only has the M3 chip, not the M3 Pro nor the M3 Macs, which all three were announced today. You get up to 24 gigs. Sorry, not 20 terabytes, 24 gigs of unified memory. It does have Wi-Fi 6E in it now. I notice from the grid. So it, you know, it got some upgrades in that sense. It was the Bluetooth upgraded. I can't remember where we were at with 5.3. Yes, the Bluetooth was upgraded as well. Yeah, it like it saw a lot of upgrades, which I thought, OK, like like internally it was bumped. Let's call it. But yeah, to your earlier point, all of these things actually in the past would have been this was this is like our video press release. Exactly shot on iPhone, no less. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned here's a Mac mini for you, but there's not an M3 Mac mini. That seemed lacking to me. Maybe that's the press release we get tomorrow. Just just to give us one of those things. Sure. OK. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah. I'll buy that. If not, I mean, if not, you know that updates coming sometime next year, like probably next year. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting that they didn't just do that today. Maybe they're managing expectations because there might be like parts inventory issues. Sure. And sure. They have enough that they feel comfortable rolling out the iMac. And once they ramp up production enough, then they'll add in the Mac mini. But my guess is, too, like it's not so much to M3 for the iMacs. It's probably the M3 needing to be set aside for that base model Mac book, which is going to be hugely popular, I would imagine. The MacBook Pro just just for clarity. The MacBook Pro entry level where they drop the price. That price point is killer for a lot of people, I bet. I don't disagree. Yeah. So let's talk about this new MacBook Pro because this is truly a new device. And it gets the full M3 treatment. The 14 inch, like you said, Adam, the price now starts at $14.99, which is students like you're a student going to college right now, like and haven't bought a machine. Unfortunately, their timing is a little bit off. But yeah, like this should have been about the fall before kids went back to school. Like there'd be a lot of kids go to school with that machine. Yep. Yeah, I agree. Although the air really does serve the purpose for a lot of people who in, you know, in past years would have needed a MacBook Pro. Oh, for sure. No doubt. Yeah. But I mean, if you're if you're going into graphics, if you're going into video production, if you're going into, you know, computer programming, that's a killer machine. But looking at this price grid, there's an interesting thing. So looking at the 14 inches on the, and of course you can customize these things left and right, the base model at $14.99 is the M3 chip with eight gigs of unified memory and 512 gig SSD storage. And then it bumps up to the same chip with a terabyte for another 200 bucks, terabyte of storage. So you double your storage, $14.99 to $16.99 gets you that. But there's this $18.49 sitting out here, which bumps you all the way up to an M3 Pro, which qualifies you for the new space black color, which doesn't look all that different from the midnight that I see on my air but maybe in person, it's radically different. But that now, because it's the M3 Pro, it's the 11-core CPU instead of the 8, and it's got a whopping 18 gigs of unified memory. It adds 10 gigs of memory and this new CPU, still with the 512 gigs SSD for 350 bucks. That's that's an interesting sort of carrot to dangle out there for folks. Like, hey, you that's 250, right? Am I doing my math right? $14.99 to $18.49. Oh, you're going from the base, or I was going from the mid tier from the $16.99. Yeah, did I get it right? Is it, I thought it was $350. Am I getting it right? $18.49 minus $14.99 is $350. Yes, yeah. Yeah, if you're going all the way from the base model. I was going all the way from the base model. Yes. But thank you for for catching that, just in case anybody at home was confused too. Yeah. That to me is an interesting delta because it's like, well. Extra for 350. Exactly. For Apple, for Apple, you typically charges for memory, like that's a steal. Yeah, yeah. It's not bad. And I'm assuming if I wanted to bump that up to a two terabyte. Okay, so it's $180 bucks. So 2029 gets you that machine, sorry with a one terabyte storage. Two terabytes is another 360. But yeah. Okay, so you get a little bit of a discount on the additional storage by doing it on this one. That's a side note here as I'm looking at the pages with all the specs and the pricing, that base model is $100 more on all the pages for me. It's $15.99 instead of $14.99. What? What are you, in the UK? Are you like VPN somewhere? Let me make sure I don't have a VPN turned on. I mean, that's weird, right? It's totally weird. I want to, now I want to send you the URL that I am looking at because you can see my screen because you can see the video. And I see exactly what you're seeing. But it says $15.99? And for me, it's the same thing except the pricing on that base model is $15.99. Well, you get the special Jeff Gamut price. I was going to say. We'll all pay the other pricing. Yeah, I pay the special color. Oh, wait, wait. No, no. Dave's on an EDU. I'm on the EDU. I'm on the education store because I don't know how I got there. I clicked through from Apple site. You're not wrong, Jeff. Okay. $15.99. Thank you for catching that. Holy cow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. This is why we do this together. Okay, this looks so much better to me now. Because I was trying to figure out what am I doing wrong? Yeah, I'm glad you said something. And what I'm doing wrong is not going for an EDU pricing. Yeah. How did I get to the education store? I don't know. But anyway, there you go. So some pricing differences now. $15.99 for the base model unless you can convince Apple that you are a student of life. In which case, all the previous prices I just mentioned are yours. $19.99. So it's a $400 delta, not a $350 delta to this 18-gig machine. And then adding another doubling up your storage to a terabyte adds. Wait, it just did it to me. See? Okay, it's 200 bucks. 20, 200 bucks. Yeah, it's 200 bucks to add that storage. So you don't get the discount on that. So by the time you've beefed up that with all that other stuff, just buy the 12-core M3 Pro for $23.99. Yeah. Because now you get the 12-core CPU, 18-core GPU, 1-terabyte SSD, and it's $23.99. That's that next year up, right? So they're really, I mean, what I was going to say earlier is like, they're really, I think, differentiating, like making you decide where you're at. It's a MacBook Pro, right? I think for Pro users, it seems like an easier choice. If you're one of those people that lives on the fence, like you were saying, Dave, with the MacBook Air, which is now M2 versus the MacBook Pro entry level, it seems like it's getting maybe a little muddy for some folks. I don't know, potentially. Yeah. Like, do you want a little extra processor? Do you want like, they've kind of blurred that line a little bit? Yeah, that's a good question. Right. It is a blurred line. I'm curious to see how it kind of shakes out in the market as things evolve. Yeah. I think consumers will probably more opt for the Air just because it, that's a sexy machine. But, you know, and it's, if you want a Pro, you're probably wanting the Pro processor. You're wanting, you know, that more memory. You're wanting all those other things. So I've had this conversation actually with friends who are on the fence or like, should I get the base model Pro or the Air? And I think almost always once you talk it out with someone, they end up with the Air just because of how thin and light it is. That's not that big of a delta. Like, you're not getting that much extra by bumping up to the Pro typically. For most people. For most people at that level. That's what I'm saying. Yep. Yep. I mean, and I am at that level. Like, I can't see a world where a Pro would be the right machine for me. I mean, I tried it a couple of years ago and I was like, no, I want my Air back, please. Yeah. And see, for me, I'm in the other world because if I was just doing the podcasting stuff, then yeah, the Air would be the clear choice. But as I'm a developer and some of those other things come into play, where I'm doing Photoshop stuff occasionally, all that stuff, I prefer having the little extra bump, especially on the GPU side that the Pro gives me. Well, that's a great point. Yeah, I wound up giving my Pro that I had for five minutes to my son, which he still uses and he's a software engineer. Like it makes, he's great with it. Yep. Yep. It gives him the little bit of extra that he needed for that. So, yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned, were you going to say something, Jeff? Sorry, I was going to take us kind of down a different rabbit hole. It doesn't matter because it just would have carried on what we're saying. Take us down to rabbit hole. Well, the rabbit hole is, I noticed as Apple, especially as they were talking about the new M3 chips, which is how they started the event. For those of you that haven't watched it yet, it started with probably a good 10 to 12 minutes about the, you know, the M3 chips. And then it was like, by the way, here are these computers that we put them in. All right, good night. And they talked a lot about how the new GPUs were going to make games better. They, it's got this dynamic caching in there, which more efficiently uses memory. But then they vary. And they said, by the way, that this dynamic caching is transparent to developers, meaning it's just going to take the existing code and do it the right way, the new way, whatever. But then they talked about hardware accelerated mesh shading. And for the first time on the Mac, hardware accelerated ray tracing. And that was interesting. Like they're really pushing, if you take this combined with the, you know, port, I forget the name of the technology that Apple has to help game developers port over to the Mac, but, or to Apple platforms in general. But, you know, pushing this is like, this is a gaming machine. This is a gaming machine. That's like, that's interesting to me that Apple's really, like they're going bullish on this. And they, and they talked about it with the new MacBook Pros too. How much of this is important for their whole VR initiative? Yeah, that's what I was going to say too. I feel like this is more about trying to convince people they have these technologies coming for Vision and Vision Pro or whatever in the future. I mean, as much as Apple wants to sell that all they have all these great features, which are awesome, and it's easy to port and stuff like that. Where they need to be putting the time and the investment in the money is not in the technologies that they're providing. It's at convincing developers that there's a gaming market in the Mac market and that they can sell titles. You know what I mean? Like that's all developers care about. Like they want to sell titles. And the, even with all the ease of porting that Apple wants to say that they have, there still has to be a market there. Yeah. And they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, there just isn't today because you talk to any gamer and they will tell you, you know, like you're going to have to convince those people. And, and I don't think just saying we have all these cool technologies that you've been waiting for to come to the back for forever. They're here now. Gamers are going to go, where are the titles? And game developers are going to go, where are the, where are the users? Where are my customers? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And Apple does have a pretty bad track record with the gaming space. Yeah. So this is a pretty big ask. Yeah. They got to fix that. So I have another question, a tech question. So some of these new technologies that, that appear to be focused on the gaming space, it's kind of transparent. It, your code will just take advantage of them. But some of the things it's not clear to me, like, like with the whole on-chip ray tracing, things like that, are these things that developers are going to have to code specifically for the M3? Or do they just, does the hardware just take advantage of that for free for them? I, I don't, I don't know. They weren't clear on that. My, my guess is that some of it, the hardware is just going to do for free. And, and then if you really want to like, eke out the most performance you would write specifically for that chip. Yeah. I was going to say, I, my understanding is it's very much a combination. It also comes down to any specific title and how it was actually developed. Like there's probably some titles that are much easier and will just take advantage of a lot of these things. And then there's a lot of other titles that aren't. I mean, I think, again, I'm not a huge gamer, but I'm pretty sure ActiveX or whatever the current generation of that on the PC side is still a huge thing. And I don't think it's just a matter of like, that just flops over. I could be wrong, but it's not my understanding that that's what happens from the game developer standpoint. Yeah. I guess they, they could buy their way into being a gaming platform. I mean, in a sense, they, they have on the iPhone-ish kind of, right? But they could buy their way in by signing exclusive titles on, you know, Apple, right? You have to have an Apple device to play whatever the latest and greatest. I mean, it would cost them a lot, but. How about this? Just fund the game ports like the developers don't want to do it. Just like underwrite the fricking conversion of AAA titles. That's a, I bet that's, that's way cheaper than my idea. I'm with you, Adam. That's what I was thinking, too. Right. Apple just starts reading checks to the development companies, make a Mac version. Here's the money code to go do it. Or even here are the engineers to do it with you. Yeah. Like that, that would, you know, like. Here's the money for the engineers. Yeah. That's good. Or both, like, you know, if they really want to do this. If they're serious. If they're serious about it, they have the money to do it. They can, they can invest their way into this. But, but they're going to need, they're going to need a couple of big wins. But look at what they did with Apple TV plus, right? Like they just kept spending and spending and spending and basically giving the service away for a long time until suddenly, you know, they had Ted Lasso and then, and then it was like, aha, yeah. Okay. Now start coughing up your money folks, right? And it's not just Ted Lasso. They've had lots of hits on Apple TV plus, but initially they didn't have any. And we were like, oh, I mean, this show's okay. That show's all right. Like, you know, fine. But they, they were just pushing it. They know how that game works. And so they just, so they could do it. And they didn't push out any crap. It was all at least good. Yes. That's fair. Right. That is 100% true. I mean, anything they've ever watched on it has been great. Now I don't watch all the stuff like I've never gone back to the morning show. But that's, that was a great show. I really enjoyed it. I watched the first season. I haven't gotten back to it. Probably will someday. The second season, I thought it ended strong. The morning show, the second season did not, in my opinion, start strong. We just watched the first episode of season three. And I think in my household beer on the fence, I liked it. It, it, it brings back enough of the newsroom that I want to keep watching it because I really love that Sorkin series, the newsroom. It is not. It is like the writing's good on morning show. It's not Sorkin. I do not want to mislead anyone. I am other than myself. Like I mislead myself into watching it. And it's fine. It's good. Lisa was like, I asked her the next day. I'm like, what'd you think? Like, should we watch the next one? She was like, yeah. I'm like, oh, okay. I think there's, I think there's a lot of stuff that is falling into that category, though, for me too. It's like, you know, it's not, that's just one example. But overall, the quality level, like the quality level of everything that I've watched on Apple TV, even the stuff that I haven't gone back to, is way higher than probably 80% of the Netflix things that I tried. You know, just like, I am not coming back to this no matter what. This is just garbage. You just didn't, you didn't like Tiger King? I love Tiger King. Okay, good. I was, I just wanted to make sure we could still be friends. No, but you know what I mean? I'm the only person that hasn't watched Tiger King yet. I mean, it's on my list. I just haven't gotten to it. You are. Yes, Jeff. You are the only person. You are the only person. Yeah. But you get my point is like that the base quality level of anything at Apple is top tier of, in my mind, almost any other streaming service. And then you find the real cream at the top. There's occasionally the cream, right? That just resonates. Yeah. But there's very rarely something that I pop on on Apple and I go like, this sucks. Yep. Yep. Fair. Like just flat out sucks. Just flat out sucks. No, you're right. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's good quality. I, yes, I found out with, with everything, including the things that were not my cup of tea where it's like, oh, I, like this doesn't, like this didn't get its hooks into me. So many things on Netflix and Amazon that are just like, oh, they totally phoned this in. Like this was just garbage. Yeah. You know, if, if all the shows on Apple TV were shows that each of us liked, like just, we all imagined it's like everything is great. That would actually really concern me because that would tell me they focused on a very narrow demographic, but having a lot of good stuff, some of which appeals to us, some of which doesn't. That's good. Get a wider demographic. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of demographics, we backed into this Apple TV plus conversation. No, no, no, I, I, because I think it's relevant. We got, we backed into it talking about games. How, like I, I, I used to play a lot of games. I have not, I just haven't carved out the time to do it. Do either of you play games at any level? I'm, I'm trying to convince myself that I should get back into it. So, you know, expect this to maybe be an ongoing conversation here on the show. But I'm, I'm just curious. But I, I'm lame and old, so I play a lot of Minecraft. Okay. Yeah. And I play, uh, Hearthstone is my other game. All right. All right. So, uh, for, for quite a while, I was, I was, uh, very much into abduction. Yeah. The, the, from, from the, uh, from Cyan, from Cyan, the, the missed people. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the, the only reason I'm, I'm not into it or any other games right now is just, life got kind of busy. Okay. But I was also like really into Kerbal Space Program for, for a long time. For the same reason, just got too busy and say that one more time. Cause I couldn't, I want to put these in the show notes for people. And Kerbal Space Program. Okay. Got it. Thanks. That's a good game, yeah. And for, for, for people that know, they know. And for people that don't, you are so welcome for learning about Kerbal Space Program. So I, I did start playing a game the other day. I was like, I need to find something that I want to play. And I thought, you know, I pay for Apple TV plus because I pay for Apple TV plus. Sorry for Apple Arcade, Apple Arcade. Yeah. We can see, see it's all the same. I merged it in my brain. I pay for Apple Arcade. It's part of my subscription. And I found Cypher 007 in there. Yeah. That's actually really fun. I mean, it's, it's, you know, it, it got me. Like I was, I'm now hooked. So like, yeah, it's not, it's not a, I thought it, I thought everything in Apple Arcade would be just like quick little, like, you know, play for five minutes and your board kind of thing. And that is not true. Like I played this game for an hour the other night. And now I want to go play it more. So, and I, and I'm not done. It's not like I'm just playing the same thing over and over again. And it's, it's an adventure game. Like I'm, I'm, yep. Some of the stuff that they're bringing back to that they're revamping of some of the classic titles from iOS is a really interesting thing that they're doing. I, I'm pretty sure they brought it out in a plus version on Apple Arcade. There was a great game called Leo's Fortune that I really really enjoyed. Leo's Fortune, yes. It was super fun. It's a side scroller kind of adventure kind of game sort of thing. And it is, it is super fun. Interesting. All right. Went back to revisit it because I played it on iOS originally and, you know, my daughter and I played it together and we beat it. So I haven't gone back to it, but it was a fun game. Huh. All right. So as someone that's into the gaming space in a more casual sense, um, the games that Apple needs to go after, I totally get it. They need to go after Halo and Quake and World of Warcraft and all of, all of those caliber games. If they're, if they're going to go after that space, do they also need to go after the, I'll call it more casual, but also maybe more kid oriented? For example, the games that I continually go back to are the Lego games. A good question. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what they do because they, they were definitely the last two events. If we kind of zoom out on both of them, they're pushing games hard, even the last three events, right? If you go back to WWDC, like this is not, this was not a surprise tonight. It was an interesting thing to notice, but it was a follow on to, oh, to the thing that really started at WWDC where they just started hammering this. So I'm curious. Go ahead. Yeah. Like, I mean, like I said earlier, I know this was a Mac event and they were talking about the Mac, but I really feel like Jeff alluded to earlier. I think this is a gear up to a bigger push for games in Apple Vision Pro. Fair. I think that's going to be their platform where, because it's a new platform that they can bring developers in on and support developers on. And it, I mean, from a VR perspective, you know, not the AR, maybe some of the AR stuff too. But I guess, yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do, but I have a feeling like that's where all this M series game technology stuff is going because I had that, you know, they've got a brand new platform, something brand new that they can bring developers in on. It's not the Mac, so they don't have that stigma. But, you know, they can kind of shake that up a little bit. They can they can define what this new platform is. Yeah. And there will be hype. Yeah. Mm hmm. They'll like, yeah. Apple is, I mean, in the scheme of things, if you can, if you look at mobile gaming, like Apple is a dominant player in mobile gaming. Totally. Massively dominant player. And I have a feeling they want to do the same thing. But now with Vision Pro, they can take that to the next level. They can go after these more hardcore gaming type folks. And these folks are also remember the people that will spend three, four grand on a gaming PC. Yes. It astounds me when I see friends post about what they've spent on a gaming PC. And it's like, oh, man, like I wonder how close a Mac could get to that for probably less. And maybe that's I know Apple doesn't like to market that way. But man, like that, that would. A Mac Studio or a Mac Pro positioned as a gaming machine. Right? No hardware in the market that could compete with it just, you know, dollar for dollar. Yeah. No, not at all. But I mean, again, you got to have the titles and you got to have the developers dedicated to the platform. And they're just not. And Apple has a hard time convincing them currently. But they, like I said, I think they have an opportunity with a new platform to be like, hey, get in on the ground floor because we put in all this gaming tech and all this development resources and, you know, we're going to have a bunch of folks clamoring after titles on these on these things. It's brand new. So I don't know. Yeah. There were two other things I noticed at Apple was selling us under the under the surface on this event. One, and I don't really know that there's much to talk about on it, is pushing the upgrade from Intel, right? They they that that was kind of hamfisted. It was hamfisted, but it was there, right? Like, I mean, yeah, yeah, smooth or not. You knew that they were telling people, all right, we're ready for you now. Come on, like, let's go get over to Apple Silicon and they explain why. So like, I thought that was good. The other thing that they were pushing was Sonoma. They were, you know, highlighting Sonoma features and saying, you know, we're really ready for you. And I know that I am biased because Sonoma's audio functions much better than Ventura's does for me in my setup here. And while I'm not alone, I am definitely rare in that Ventura didn't break audio for most people. But even beyond what it fixes with audio, I've been really happy with Sonoma and all of my Macs. Like it it's the first Mac OS in a while that I'm happy about. Other other than the the thing where it breaks mail plugins and I had to change the Thunderbird, but whatever, you know, things happen. Are you guys happy with Sonoma? I'm kind of indifferent about about Mac OS wine country. OK. I've had audio issues up until the 14.1 update. Oh, interesting. And and losing my all of my mail plugins has been a serious problem for my workflow. Same. I moved to Thunderbird, Jeff, for I won't belabor the point because we belabored it in the previous two episodes. But but like I'm happy to have that conversation with you because that it's not great, but it is functional. And yeah, so well, I'm holding out for that beta of Mail Maven. Yeah, OK, but when it comes out, you and I will have you back on the show and we'll talk about that because I because I think there's there's clearly more conversation to have about this. Yes. And I know that's not our topic tonight. But you know what? I am so looking forward to the email episode of Mackie Gap. Yeah. Yeah, we'll do a deep dive at some point. That's a good idea. Yeah, Sonoma thing for me. It's fine. OK, good. I have nothing other to say. Like I upgraded. It went great. I haven't noticed much of a difference in my daily usage or workflow, which I guess is a positive thing. But like I don't there's not like a brand new feature that I've like keyed in on yet. Like with with the last update, definitely continuity camera kind of changed how I was doing things. So far, the biggest thing I notice is the is the little privacy thing where it shows you what an app is like that gets doing it now because we're streaming, right? It's showing me, hey, something's screen sharing your video or your audio. You can also use that to for those of you that haven't done this in Sonoma yet when almost any app it for me, it's been every app is using a camera, be it an Apple camera or a third party camera. Go click on that little like you're saying Adam, the privacy notification in the menu bar. Click on that and you can change settings for your camera and use like Apple's portrait lighting and studio light and even, you know, the reactions that Apple lets us do and all of that good stuff. It's it's it's pretty cool how well it works with anything. In fact, if you're going to do zoom calls for work, I recommend you go in and at least experiment with the reactions and decide whether you want them on for zoom or off. Fair. Yeah. You know, discounting all of the really great controls you have from those notifications. Yeah. Just the fact that they took what was previously nondescript dots in the menu bar and turn them into something that actually gives useful information. Thank you. Yeah, fair. But that's that's like the one new feature of like really noticing it like I haven't turned on. I haven't put widgets on like I need to do the widgets thing. I have. Have you done widgets, Jeff? I have and and what I found is that most of what I want with widgets, I actually don't want on my Mac, right? But I didn't know that till I started playing with all the widgets. It's stuff that I want to see on my iPhone or my iPad. So right now, the only widget I still have active is the one that shows me battery levels. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I got a mess with widgets. That's definitely on my list. The fact that I could see my iPhone widgets on my Mac. That was cool. Like having carrot weather on my desktop. That was really cool. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Well, we have gone. We have done it. I didn't I had all the faith in the world that we would. We have gone longer talking about Apple's event than Apple did with the event. I believe that's a first. But of course, this was the shortest Apple event that I can remember. I don't maybe the shortest event in history. It was about 31 minutes. If I I wasn't I wasn't keeping a timer, but I was aware of the time. So yeah, is there anything more that either of you have to add to what we're talking about here? Is it time to say goodnight? I have something to add. What's that, Jeff? My M2 MacBook Pro. Yeah. Still hasn't completed its first year of Apple care. And it's already. I don't mean to laugh at you. Laughing is appropriate because otherwise I'd have to cry. Holy crap, Apple. I got what, nine months before there's a new model out to replace mine. Fair, fair. And on one hand, that sucks. On the other hand, if I were Intel, I would be crapping bricks as they say. Because of how fast Apple can rev their chips and get them out the door. And they're doing things that Intel just simply can't do right now. That's fair. Yeah. That's an interesting point. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, and we're spoiled now. I mean, look at how quickly what we got the first M1s in fall of 2020, right? We're on the third generation two years into this chip. Three years. Are we three years? Right. Because it was fall of 2020 that we saw the M1 MacBook Air. And this is three years later that we're on the M3. Okay. Still. Yeah. Really fast. It's really fast. And there are market improvements in the chips. It's not just like we're going to call it the, you know, I mean, they can call whatever they want. You know, there's like, they can back it up. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Interesting. It's interesting, Jeff brought up that thing, because I'm in that other camp where, like you said earlier, Dave, this was the first keynote they were targeting Intel users. I still have the last generation Intel MacBook Pro. Oh, is that okay? You know, I almost made it. We were having some, I say we. Adam was having some tech issues before the show, if you don't mind. And you had to reboot your Mac. And I almost made a joke about, well, you need to upgrade that Intel Mac to an Apple Silicon. That was true. But it actually is true. I thought you were on Apple Silicon there already. Interesting. Yeah, but I'm actually kind of glad I waited. And I don't, you know, I don't know. I generally don't have any issues with that. Now I have an M1 for work. But yeah, for my daily driver, for, you know, my personal computer, it's still that, that Apple Silicon, like last generation 15-inch MacBook Pro. Intel. Or Intel, yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Intel. And I don't know. I mean, as much as the new M3s look great, it's just like I'm not itching to spend the money. Right. You know, and I don't know that there's enough still in there for me to like be, I need, I mean, I'm going to probably be that person that waits until like the operating system won't run on Intel anymore, which is probably I'm guessing the next generation. So. I have a feeling they were telegraphing that tonight when they were saying, hey, if you've got an Intel, this is a really great time to upgrade. You know, oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. The next Mac OS California city here is probably not going to be Intel compatible. It wouldn't surprise me. Fair. Fair. That's my expectation, especially after tonight's event. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, that's a that's a good spot for us to to bring the band in. Thank you both for doing this tonight. This was this was actually fun. This conversation went in a direction I did not expect. And I'm glad it did because it's so much fun. Mac Keekab after dark. It kind of felt like, I don't know. Thanks for hanging out with us, folks. Feedback at mackeekab.com is where you can send in all of your comments, questions, tips. I will make sure things get to Adam and Jeff as appropriate. But if you want to get in touch with them directly, Adam, you want to tell people where to find you please? Yep. Mine's super easy. You can find me at maccast.com, Maccast on the social medias. And if you need to send me an email, it's maccast at gmail.com. And Jeff. I'm Jay Gamet on all the socials. Perfect. You can find me most easily right now on Mastodon Instagram. And I'm working on threads. Nice. All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I got into threads when it first started and then forgot about it until you said it just now. So I need to get back into that. Yeah, I'm working on it too. All right. Yeah, we'll work on that together. All right. I'll see you over there on threads, folks. I'll see you on, you know, I'm Dave Hamilton everywhere, X and Mastodon and Facebook and all that good stuff. Thanks for hanging out with us, folks. Thanks for listening. Share the show with a friend. We would love that. And yeah, keep having fun out there. Jeff, it's been a little while since you've been here. Do you happen to have like, one word's not enough, five is way too many. Do you maybe have like three words of generic advice that you might be able to share with someone like me who's a podcaster and is supposed to be accurate and then goes and visits the education store and shares the wrong prices with all my listeners? I do. And Dave, I say this with all love. Don't get caught. Made on a Mac. That's good advice. I'll try and take it to heart. I can't take notes. Later. We're out. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everybody, for hanging out. Yeah. There's a lot of people watching and a lot of people in the chat. I couldn't keep up with all of the chat. But Ben Rothig, you made a really interesting comment through the show that EA is for sale. So that would be, yeah. Yeah. How do you do that, Dave? You have to upgrade to a Mac that wasn't made by Intel. That's true, right? Yeah. That's why. That's what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. Interesting comment, Ben, that could be. EA is for sale. You know, that sure would be an easy way to buy yourself into a market. And Ben is absolutely correct about saying Jeff and appropriate don't belong in the same sentence. I mean, also, Dave, you said this is kind of like Mac Geekab after dark. Oh, no. I know. This is not after dark. I know. And I waited to say that at the end because I knew if I called it Mac Geekab after dark in the beginning, then I would have to flip the explicit warning on it. And yeah, it would not have gone well. So yeah, there is. Oh, it probably would have gone well, but not for you. That's fair. I did not see a single flying toaster. There were no flying toasters. No, there were no. But but there's there's rain. There's rain. Oh, there is. There is rain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we love it all anyway. How do we get balloons? Is this balloons? Yeah, that's balloons. How come I can't get the. Oh, I got confetti. Apparently the kids have a new way. Oh, you had you had confetti and balloons. How did you do the balloons, Jeff? Um, I. Apparently there's a new way. I did the Richard Nixon thing like this. There it is. That's it, Adam. There's the confetti. Well, that's the old school way. Apparently I have been told. They have this way. They have some new. No, it's like. Oh, yeah, they're doing that. Some weird thing like this or something like that. Oh, yeah. The thing where they do. Yeah. Yeah. Does it know about that too? Fingers up or something like that. I don't know. I just learned this the other day. I'm old. Yeah. Richard Nixon gets confetti and that gets balloons. Oh, no, fireworks. How did we get balloons? Okay. So I did confetti. Confetti is Richard Nixon. Yeah. Oh, but I got balloons. Is one. One peace sign hand is balloons. Richard Nixon is confetti. That's why. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then two horns, you get lasers. And smoke like you get fog. Sorry. I can't believe I said smoke because I learned playing in bands. If you walk into a club and you start talking about as you're setting up and loading in, you're like, oh, who's going to set up the smoke machine? Someone involved in management of the club will come over and tell you. Absolutely not. You're not allowed to use the smoke machine. However, if you say, hey, who's got the fog machine? It's never an issue. And they are literally the same device. Fog is more accurate a name than smoke because you're not actually burning anything. But yeah, the haze machine is even better, but it is the don't say smoke. So we get haze. We get fog. Dave, as long as we're talking about the fog machines, years ago I used to do my own haunted house thing every year and had fog machines and all this stuff. So here's a fun hack for you in case you went to have the low hanging fog. Get yourself one of the coolers and you drill a hole like this through each side and then you take PVC pipe and on one end it's just like a tube coming out. On the other end, it's PVC pipe doing a big U shape. I feel like we're making a swamp cooler here, but yeah, keep going. It's a lot like that. So now you have the two pieces that are sticking inside your cooler. Get wire mesh and make a tube out of that so it connects the two ends, but it's mesh. But it's mesh, so yeah. So you have a clear path through. Now fill the thing with dry ice, put the lid on. You set your fog machine on top with the nozzle pointing at that U shaped tube and it blows the fog into that, chills it, and then it comes out and hangs to the ground on the other side and you are welcome. Lisa is going to love hearing about this. Oh, that's a great tip. Oh yeah, I like it. Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah, Tennessee Papa in our Discord chat says the bug juice in the fog machine. I that stuff reeks it like it smells like the stuff we used for years smells like strawberries and what would happen is we'd use it all night and then I would pack my symbols up. This is when I was on the road like with hypnotic clambake and we're playing every night. I'd pack my drums and therefore my symbols into their case, put it on the bus, we'd go to the next venue or whatever set up the next day. Now, of course, I was packing it up right at the end of the gig. And symbols smoke comes out. No, no, symbols are just big sheets of metal, right? And this stuff just sticks to them. And I would open my symbol case the next day and it was like I got beat in the face with strawberries much better, though. Then what happens when I would play a smoky club and I would open the symbol case the next day and my symbols are a reek of cigarettes. Like, like I had to wash my symbols when I was playing in smoking clubs is the worst. It sticks to everything. You repaired computers for a while. Yeah, it's fair. What part of your life, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You talk about who's done computer repairs, especially back in the 80s. Everybody smoking. Everybody smoked. Yeah, in the office. Sticky on the inside. It's the sticky like dripping. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cannabis odor also sticks. It is sticky in the same way. And I noticed that in some computers that I repaired in Austin back in the 90s. It was like, oh, I know what you guys do here. You know, as someone who lives in Colorado, I do feel qualified to speak on this subject. Or professional. And, you know, if you want to avoid all of the sticky, stinky, all the after effects stuff that just makes it kind of messy, there are some amazingly high quality edible products, not like brownies, but gummies, little tablets you land your tongue where you can get very specific controlled dosing. So you get just the effect you want without the messy other parts. Yeah. Yeah, fair. Yeah, no, technology with that has has come along in a in a way that serves consumers quite well. I'm pretty sure that's the preferred method among most people these days that are into that sort of thing. I very rarely hear people actually still smoking. Yeah, fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair. Yeah, I will say to folks who haven't experienced that yet, they will tell you this everywhere. If you are willing to listen and I encourage you to listen, start low and go slow. Because the last thing you want to do is learn that you just took a dosage that is more than you care to have. So start low and go slow. And I say this is someone. Excellent advice. I say this is someone who has a very delicate relationship with THC. Like I, you know, if anybody knows amount, I don't I don't take THC that often. I do not like playing the drums on it. I would never want to podcast on it. I know people that love to play music on it. It's it's a judgment about me, not them. But, you know, most people find five or 10 milligrams of THC to be the right for them. For me, that's either one of those numbers would be a massive ordeal. I'm more like one. So yeah, and you might be like me. So don't go take 10 and think you're going to be all right if you've never experienced it before. I just like to help. It's it's who I am. I can't I can't help but help. So all right, now I need to go produce a show. Thanks for hanging out with us, folks. I'm going to start saying goodbye to everybody on the stream. So as usual, audio goes first. Thank you so much, folks. This has been a blast and audio is done. And now I will say goodbye in the video. Thank you. We'll see you on.