 Welcome to the BCV channel. I am your host, Pastor Seco Woods. Please do the following. Please like, subscribe, share, hit the notification bell at the bottom of the video that way whenever I go live, post any content or information that you the viewer would need to see or I would love for you to see, you'd be one of the first to do so. Also, if you'd like to support this ministry financially and you have been blessed by this ministry, you can do so by clicking the donation information and links below at the bottom of this video. If you'd like to support the ministry by purchasing the BCV merchandise, you can do so also by clicking the merchandise link information below at the bottom of this video as well. Please, ladies and gentlemen, those of you who are just joining, welcome Facebook family, welcome YouTube family. Please share this video as we speak. Let's get these likes up ahead of time so that way people can join in and also participate in the discussion along with yourselves. So far, we have about 48 people that are joining right now on the live and about 14 likes. So let's make sure we can try to give these numbers even so that way it can go through the algorithm. That'd be great. I really, really appreciate that. Just want to make sure everybody can hear me well. If you can hear me good, want to make sure I don't have too much volume in the microphones. Let me try to make sure the levels were great and if the levels are good and you can hear me well on your end, please put up a one. If it's too loud, let me know and I'll try to make the necessary adjustments as much as possible. That way we can make sure that everyone is able to hear, can hear well. So again, Facebook family, thank you all for joining. I appreciate that. I appreciate the support. Welcome everybody to the broadcast. I want to jump right into this and make sure that first and foremost, as I begin this talk, I have no personal acts to grind with anyone. I'm just basically sharing my position, sharing what I believe that I as a Christian believe is the biblical teachings regarding how a person is saved, how a person comes to Christ, how is a person able to become a born again child of God? I do believe that the word of God teaches that and I am well aware and do understand that we have differences of views and opinions regarding that, but we should be able to lovingly agree and graciously disagree and we can do so passionately. We can do that. If you know anything about me, I'm born and raised from Detroit and so my personality and style may not be everyone's cup of tea, but if you spend time with me and get to know me well, I believe you will get to like me because sometimes I think that the best conversations are the conversations that we have off camera, not necessarily on camera or not necessarily those who are watching and you're not able to interact in a real time scenario in a real time situation. It's easy to have a monologue, but I think it's more beneficial and more of a blessing to the body of Christ when we're able to have dialogue. This is why I always try to encourage face to face conversations, i.e. coming up with people who may differ and or disagree with me because I believe that is how the body of Christ grows. The Bible says that that we are to sharpen one another that is iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another in Proverbs 27 17 so therefore we should be able to have these lively discussions and I believe today's live will not be exempt from that as well. I'm just mainly the one with the microphone, but I'll try to look at the comments, but I do have some information that I want to cover and I want to do so so that way you can hear my heart and you can hear my position in my stance regarding the subject of of Calvinism and why I believe why I believe this is just my opinion. This is my view and so far I have not I have not changed my position regarding this ever since I've been saved and so you're going to be hard pressed to convince me otherwise and because this is what I see in scripture, but I'm just sharing with you the viewer that position as well and maybe you may agree with it and if you don't, that's fine. Doesn't mean you're you need less of my brother's system and I hope and pray that you would consider me as yours as well too. So well hopefully by the end of this live my brother JD 180, welcome to the to the channel. You'll be at a full five. You'll be at a full five. Yeah, no sugar on the grits, bro. No sugar on grits. If you eat sugar on grits, then you are Armenian. This is all of this to it. You definitely going to be Armenian. If you put sugar on your grits, you are an Armenian and you need to be saved. You need Jesus because no no Calvinists put sugar on the grits. That's blasphemous. That's that's that's one of the that's supposed to be an unpardonable sin there. But anyway, so, but let's let's get right into this. Okay. If you have been following the recent developments for the past, I will say but for the past week, you know that there have been discussions and dialogues and not full dialogue but I somewhat dialogue because I had not been invited, but hopefully that'll change. And if Corey minor comes in, he'll be able to let you the viewer know when we're going to have this debate that we are that we are supposed to be tentatively scheduling very soon, hopefully, because I believe those of you would like to see that kind of discussion. In fact, how many of you would love to see a debate slash conversation slash dialogue between myself, yours truly and Corey minor aka smart Christian. If you if you would love to see that, put up a one. If you don't put up a two. If you don't care, it's either or it don't matter to you put up a three. But if you would love to have that that type of, you know, event occur and that type of conversation to happen, put up put up a one. And maybe y'all can y'all can put some pressure on Mr minor and let him know let's make this thing happen. I believe that the body of Christ needs to see two brothers be able to have that conversation. There won't be. Yeah, it won't be no fighting. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't like beating up short people. So and a three and a three, you say it in three or time to show up. Yeah. Yeah. So I think everybody would love to see that. So that's great. So anyway, if you've been following, if you've been following recent, recent developments and recent lives, Corey had two, two guests on his show. I want to say last week, I believe and and on his broadcast, he had young Don reform where she was reformed young Don reborn and he also had, what do you mean, AKA John McCrae? Those two gentlemen, those two brothers basically were discussing and talking about salvation and how a person is saved. And so they came with the position that I do not hold. I do not believe, no, do I teach, no, do I embrace any doctrine that puts man at the forefront of his or her salvation. Now they'll say that that's not what they do and that's not what they're presenting. But if you watch that live, if you watch that conversation, you couldn't help but walk away believing or being being convinced and concluding in your mind that God is not sovereign. Now they may say that he is, but in what in what regard and this is the position that I hold. I believe and I hold to the position that not only is God sovereign, but he's sovereign over all that he has created, including conversion. God is sovereign in creation and he's also sovereign in conversion. I believe that. I believe that. I believe that not because I just think it is. I believe it because the Bible teaches it and I am, I am one who strives to submit under the authority of God's word. If a person is saved, a person is saved by the sovereign grace of God, period, period. There's nothing else to add to that. When God wants to save a person, when God desires to save a person, when God decrees to save a person, he or she will be saved because God has already stipulated it. He's already ordained it to be so. Therefore, there's nothing that man can do to stop God from his sovereign purpose and plan in saving those that he chooses and has chosen in eternity past to elect and to save that is Bible. And I'm going to present some biblical text to butchress and to support that premise. But before I do that, let's let's let's have a little bit of church history. Okay. And as we do that, as we do that, I want you to to understand my position. So let me offer this disclaimer first and foremost. When I say I am a Calvinist, I'm not saying I am a Calvinist to to boast in a man. I'm not saying I'm a Calvinist to boast in some type of system doctrinal or theological belief. I say that to identify with a particular teaching that is founded and that can be supported first and foremost because scripture teaches. Okay, so I don't I don't want people to get turned off, if you will, because I make the statement that I'm a Calvinist. I don't I don't want people to to get turned off or tune me out because I'm now identifying with a particular doctrine. I say that because I know a lot of people hate labels or some people hate labels, but we use labels all the time. We use labels all the time. Can I give you an example? Thank you. How many of you and this just by a show of hands, how many of you by a show of hands believe in small governments? How many of you by a show of hands or by putting up a one believe and support small government? I give you some time. Tony, you do great. Who else anyone else believes in small government? In other words, you don't believe that the government should have that must control over your life and what you and what you do. Okay, small government, right? Real small, as Eric says. Yes. Okay, so we we we're we're we're vibing, right? Okay. How many of you believe, how many of you believe that parents should be able to decide where and how their children should be educated and not the state? How many of you believe that? How many of you believe that parents should be able to decide and choose whether or not their child or their children should be educated based on where their where that parent wants them to go to school and not the government? In other words, not based on zip code, right? So so we we're so far. We're so far going to that, right? Okay. All right. So in other words, you believe that your money. Your money should follow the child where where you spend your money. That's where your child should go. And if that's case, that's that's good. Not not where the government is telling your child to go, right? OK, great. How many of you believe? How many you believe in the sanctity of human life? How many of you believe in the sanctity of human life? You believe that that all life is precious and that life has has value and worth. How many of you believe that? And I'm going somewhere with this. Great. So all so far we all we all are rocking and we are running on all cylinders here. That's great. That's great. Let me let me put up another me ask another question. May ask another question. How many of you believe in the traditional view of marriage and sexuality and of marriage and sexuality? You you believe that marriage traditionally speaking is between one man and one woman. You believe that. And you also believe that there are only two genders. You believe that that is your position. That is your belief. You hold to traditional family values when it comes to marriage and sexuality. You know what you have just identified yourself as? A conservative. Now is the word conservative in the Bible? Nope. Nope. The word conservative is not in the Bible, but we can see the principles we can see. We can see our beliefs of these things in scripture if we look for them. So when a person wants to say, well, you're a conservative or you are a Republican or whatever the case might be. Okay, there's nothing wrong with that. But now let me let me also add this, this, this other disclaimer. Being a being a conservative does not make you Christian. Okay. Being a conservative does not make you Christian. Nor does being a Republican make you righteous. So I want to make sure that that's clear and that's out there in the open. Because we always tell people that if you're a Democrat, you're Christian, you can't be Democrat. I agree. I totally agree with that. I totally agree with that. Totally agree with that. Because their positions and their policies do not align with difficult values, right? But it's because a person is conservative or Republican doesn't make them a shoe into the kingdom either. You must be born again. You must be born from above. You must repent of your sins, turn from your sins and turn to Christ. And that can only happen if or when God and His mercy and grace chooses for you and I to be saved. So notice what I just did. I just asked you all several questions and in those questions that I asked you, you all affirm that you believe in those things. Now, should I or should others look down upon you because you hold to conservative values? No, we should not. We should not. And vice versa. And that's my attitude in my heart when it comes to the topic and it comes to the subject of Calvinism and why I am or why I identify with that theological framework. I identify with that theological framework. Not because Calvin taught it, but because Christ taught it. So let me give you a little bit of church history a little bit. Okay. Let me give you a little bit of church history and I'm not going to do a lot of it. I want you to be a barin and I want you to check and to verify what I'm saying. Okay. Now, there's three schools of theological and soteriological thought that had emerged throughout church history. The first one was Pelagianism. Second one was it was the offset of it, the semi-Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianist. And then third is Armenianism. So you have Pelagianism, semi-Pelagianism and Armenianism. Pelagianism started around the the fifth century, around the fifth century, around 412 AD, started around give or take in in in in Carthage. Actually, that's where it was condemned. It was condemned in Carthage. But the belief of Pelagianism denied original sin. The doctrine of Pelagius, that's what that was the originator of that of that teaching. He taught and believed that man was not sinful, that man did not have original sin, that when Adam committed sin and when Adam, who was our federal head, according to Romans chapter 5 verse 12, when Adam sinned, that had no bearing or no effect on the rest of his progeny. Therefore, Pelagius denied the doctrine of original sin. He denied the doctrine of original sin and he also taught that man is capable, that he has the ability, hear these words, ladies and gentlemen, that man has the ability to choose Christ and to be saved if he wants to. That matter of fact, that not only does the Pelagius deny original sin, but he said and he taught that man after the fall was just as sinless as Adam was pre-fall. Yeah, let that let that sink in for a second. So Pelagius taught that man was sinless just like Adam was pre-fall and that original sin had no bearing at all on Adam's progeny, that is you and I. He also taught and believed that man can save himself without the aid or help of God, the Spirit, Christ, he was totally capable of doing it himself. And so you can understand and understand and know that why that doctrine and why that teaching was condemned in Carthage around 412 AD. So that's the first school. Let me just give you just a brief summary of that. But Bill Baran, I want you to look up these doctrines because the Bible says there's nothing new under the sun. There's just things that's being repackaged, that's all. And yes, Adam was the first to sin, but Pelagius taught that it had no effect on his progeny, thus denying original sin. And this is where you get humanism from as well too. If you think about it, at its core, that's humanism. But secondly, the second school of soteriological and theological thought was semi-Pelagianism, semi-Pelagianists believe that they didn't deny original sin. They believe that man was born in sin, that the effects of sin, it spread, but man can now choose or has, he cooperates with God in the salvation of his soul. There's two also, there's two theological terms I want you to remember as well too. You have one, which is monogism, mono meaning one, and you have synergism meaning to cooperate or both to work in tandem alongside. So you have semi-Pelagianists who were synergists. They believe that man and God work together in the justification and salvation of the soul, of man's soul. And that man wasn't really, he wasn't really dead, but he was sick. So original sin denies the separation that occurred in the garden, that man was spiritually dead. According to Pelagians, he denies that, but semi-Pelagianist says, well, he's not dead, he's sick, and really what he needs is a physician to make him better, to make him well. That's in a summation, the doctrine of semi-Pelagianism, and of course, that was condemned at the Council of Orange in around the 6th century, around 529 AD. And when you think about these councils, I want you to understand something as well too. When you think about these councils, these councils wasn't something that they just had on Skype or on Ecamm or on any other streaming service. It took months and sometimes years for these councils to convene and for these debates to take place because they had to travel from different areas and to have these meetings and these debates regarding serious matters that you and I, sometimes we just look at, oh, there's two people disagreeing. Well, these people had, these people saw the significance and the seriousness and the gravity of such teachings, that if it were to persist and to go on, many people could be led astray and could be deceived in thinking that they're saved because of the power that they claim that they possess. And so these councils that occurred, these councils that took place, like at the Council of Carthage and the Council of Orange in 412 and 529 AD, these things wouldn't just fly by night meetings, it took time, deliberation, debate, and I'm talking about passionate debate. Pretty sure there was some yelling going on because you were dealing with souls and salvation was at stake and how a man is saved. But then thirdly, the other school that was taught was Armenianism, which really a lot of our churches predominantly today, most churches are Armenian. Most churches are Armenian in their soteriology and their doctrine. And what did Armenians teach? Well, Jacobus Armenians was the originator of that teaching. And he believed that man's will was free. It wasn't a slave to sin, it was free. That man had the ability, that man had the power, that man had the choice to decide whether he wanted to be saved or not. So you have this type of view that was basically being taught, being spread throughout Christendom. And of course, it had its pushback because you had those who did not hold to that view. You had people who held to the teaching of Calvin. Oh, by the way, Calvin did not originate the five points. You know who originated the five points? Technically speaking, it was the remonstrance. The remonstrance were the ones that drafted their five points of salvation. And in response to that, in response to that in 1619 at the Senate of Dort, they drafted the five points of Calvinism. But Calvin was not the one who wrote those doctrines or those beliefs out. It was his followers who did. So when people talk about Calvin, we need to get our information and get our fact straight. Calvin wasn't the one that originated that. Technically, it was a response to the remonstrance who were trying to push and impose a view that was not biblically accurate, nor did it align with the sacred scriptures. And so the five points that the followers of Calvin elucidated and presented came in the anachronym of Tula, T-U-L-I-P, total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance, and some people may say preservation of the saints. And all of these positions can be found and supported in scripture, rightly interpreted and rightly exegeted. So I just wanted to give you all just a quick synopsis of that. But also one more thing, at the Senate of Dort, you had about 154 sessions that had occurred. No, no, no. I need to say one session, 154 sessions, and at the 154 sessions, 300 Armenians were considered to be heretics and they were excommunicated. Because why? Because at that council, at that Senate, they concluded that these people, these men, did not have the biblical backing to support what they were trying to impose regarding the five points. So the five points of quote, unquote, Calvinism, the Tula was in response to the remonstrance. So if you take total depravity and you flip it, the remonstrance said that man is not totally depraved. If you take unconditional election and you flip it, you have conditional election. That conditional election would teach that God chose to save someone based on what he saw versus on what God decided to do. You find the limited atonement, you flip that. The remonstrance said the atonement was not limited. It was unlimited. It applied to everyone. You have irresistible grace and then you have prevenient grace. Well, what is that? Well, if God's grace is irresistible, that if God chooses to save and he compels by his power for you to come before who can resist as well, well, prevenient grace teaches opposite that man can be wooed. And then if you have that, you have the perseverance or the preservation of the saints. You flip that, then they'll say that man is not really kept. He can leave his, his, his captainess. In other words, God says those who come to him, they are kept forever. Why? Because those who come to the son, our love gives from the father, John chapter 17. John chapter, chapter 10 says, all that the father gives would come to me and none of them were parish and he gives them eternal life. No one can snatch them out of his hand. No one can snatch them out of the father's hand. I and the father are one. Those who hold to the opposite view conversely would say, well, no man can choose to be unsaved. Man can now unsave himself. So those two schools of thought were pervasive. And this is what we find today. And this is why it is important for us to understand that we can be brothers and sisters in Christ and yet differ on these things, the implications I believe are important. So just wanted to, just wanted to share that, just a brief view of church history. But again, be a barin. I want you to do your work and do your research for yourself, okay? But I want to ask, I want to ask some, some questions if I, if I can, and hopefully everybody's here. Everybody's, everybody's good. Got 85 watching, 78 likes. That's pretty good. Let's get some more of these likes up. I want to make sure that people are able to, to, to hear this. Let's get this algorithm triggered off so people can, can join in on this discussion. I don't believe that this is something that is an issue that we should just, just cluck our tongues and, and ignore. I believe we should have conversations about this and we should be able to dialogue about this with the scriptures. So, but I want to ask them questions. Okay. I want to ask them questions and, and, and I'll populate some of your responses as well to, to, to see where, where everyone's heart and their mind is. It is the first question. Is Calvinism, in your opinion, a biblical doctrine? Do you believe Calvinism is a biblical doctrine? Is Calvinism a biblical doctrine to you? In other words, can you defend or can you present your position regarding the doctrines of grace on your own? Do you believe it is a biblical doctrine? I, I'll populate some of your comments. That by God you say you believe much of it is. Okay. Radix. You said 100%. Okay. Ron, you said for the most part, yes, but I think some things are added. Okay. No problem. Young Don versus Smart Christian is live right now. Great. Once again, not invited to the reindeer game, huh? And no, by the way, if they're live right now, I didn't know anything about it. Nobody tells me anything. Nobody tells me nothing, but it's okay. Maybe one day I'll be able to have that conversation with these brothers. Glad to have those of you here with me. Radix, you said you cannot look at the whole scripture and not see him acting and saving as he wishes. Amen, brother. Amen. All right. Okay. Good. You said I believe, you said loss, I believe in predestination, but exactly what that means. I don't know for sure. And we'll talk about that. Lord willing. We'll try to touch on that a little bit. Eric, you said I don't know much about Calvinism to make a decision. No problem. My goal is just to present the position and let you, the viewer, decide based on what is presented in the scriptures. And that is it. Okay. So, I want to, what I'm going to do is just present some of the positions, okay, some of the positions or some of the points with the scriptures attached to it, right? I'm going to present all five rather, but I'm going to present some of the scriptures and attachment to the five points. But do you believe that Calvinism is a biblical doctrine? Most of you said you did and some say you weren't sure, then that's fine. Here's the second question. Does Calvinism biblically explain man's sinful condition? Do you believe that Calvinism or the doctrines of grace biblically explain man's sinful condition? Do you believe that? Third question is, does man have free will to choose or to come to Christ? Do you believe that man has the free will or the ability to choose to come to Christ? My brother Corey said that he believes that man has the ability to come to Christ and I don't believe that. I believe that man's condition is the issue that I'm going to discuss and that I want to present that man's condition determines whether or not he will come. If man's condition determines whether or not he will come, then that pretty much seals the deal for me. That pretty much lays out the whole deck of cards on why this issue of the condition of man needs to be addressed first before we can deal with anything else. So although it's the third question, it's the main question, I believe in my opinion, because how you see man's condition is going to determine how you see man's participation or his inability to participate in his salvation. But here's the fourth question, does God woo sinners to come to Christ? Does God woo sinners to come to Christ? You know, does he have to coax them? Does he have to finesse them to come? Or does he have the power and will to compel them to come? That when they come, they come willingly, they come willfully. No one is coming to Christ kicking and screaming because their wills have been changed. Number five, do you believe that salvation is the sovereign work of God or the sovereign work of man? Do you believe that salvation is the sovereign work of God or the sovereign work of man? And then lastly, this is probably, if not on equal tandem, if not just slightly above because now we're dealing with this main issue here. Number six, who should receive glory for man's salvation? Who should receive glory for man's salvation? Who should receive glory for man's salvation, God or man? And thank you for clarifying that, Brother Greg. You said that you don't think Cori is on the live, young Don is just talking about him. Okay. I would love to have a conversation with young Don though. All right. So let's, let's jump into this and let's kind of like unpack some of this stuff. So we talked about total depravity, right? We talked about total depravity and, and, and what pelagius, what semi-pelagianism and what Armenians, Armenians teach and believe, right? So what, what is total depravity? Total depravity is simply this, that as a result of the fall, as a result of what Adam did, that mankind, and I'm talking about the whole of mankind, from Adam's progeny, which is us, from Adam's progeny, from, from Genesis three at the fall to what we are today, mankind is unable to save himself. Why? Because mankind in its totality has been tainted, has been, has been infected and affected with sin, thus making him or her dead and trespasses and sins. Did y'all, did y'all hear that? As a result of what Adam did in Genesis three, as a result of Adam choosing to violate, choosing to rebel, Adam plunged all of humanity into spiritual death and trespasses of sin. When Adam died, we died. When Adam separated himself by choosing to disobey and rebel against God, we, who were in the loins of Adam, his progeny, his descendants also, because Adam was our federal head. We're not talking about the last Adam, we're not talking about Christ, we're talking about the first Adam, the first Adam. As a result of that, man is unable. Not only is he unable to save himself, he's incapable of saving himself. He is incapable of saving himself. Not only does he not have the capacity, he's incapacitated to save himself. Not only can Adam or can man not come to Christ, they don't want to come to Christ. They don't want to come to Christ, none of us did. The only reason why you and I came to Christ is because God, by his sovereign grace and providence, chose us to be saved. He made us alive and gave us the ability and granted us the gift of repentance and faith to come to him. That's it. There was nothing sweet about yourself. There was nothing sweet about me. There was nothing cute about us that may God want to save us. He did it according to Ephesians one, according to his good pleasure, because he wanted to, because he wanted to, because he wanted to. That's it. Nobody, nobody, no one anywhere wants to be saved until God changes our Warner because right now, apart from Christ, all of our Warners are broken. All of our Warners don't work. We need a new Warner. So God has to change our heart. He has to replace that heart of stone and put it in a heart of flesh, making it responsive and receptive to divine stimuli. Man is incapacitated. Man is not, he's not just, he's not unconscious. No, no, he's unresponsive. He doesn't have a pulse. So where, where Pelagius and where semi-Pelagians and Armenians would say, oh, Pelagians would say he just needs someone to coach him. Semi-Pelagians would say that he just needs, you know, a doctor and even Armenians would say that he needs, you know, a doctor or physician. They just need some help and assistance. But those of us who hold to the doctrines of grace, those of us who hold to Augustinian thought, but ultimately the authority of God's word, which is the scriptures. No, no, no, no, man does not need a coach. Man does not need a physician. No, no, no, man needs a Resurrector. Man needs Christ because man is dead. And so the question that I'm asking all of us today, before we can go through these other points, it doesn't matter until we deal with this corpse. What are we going to do with this dead body? What are we going to do with this dead corpse that has yet to respond because it is unresponsive? It is dead to the things of God, but alive to the things that offend God, which is sin, rebellion. If God says that man is dead, that is exactly what he is. He's dead. He's not able to respond and neither does he want to. Am I making sense? Are y'all following me? Are you with me? So let's look at, let's look at some scriptures. Let's look at some scriptures here. I'm going to look at Genesis chapter six and then I'm going to back up one chapter to chapter five. I want you to see something that I believe a lot of us miss. Okay. Genesis chapter six, verse five, the Bible says, then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man, this is, this is by the way, we know how to count, right? Six comes after five and four and three, right? Okay. So, so, so Genesis six, God is looking, the Lord is looking at his creation and notice what he says. Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually, but wait a minute. There's more because we know that after the fall, Adam had children. You know, his, his first was, was, uh, Cain and then Abel and Abel was murdered by his brother Cain and, and, and the Bible says in Genesis five, verses one through three, that Adam had more children. Verse one, this is the book of the generations of Adam and the day when God created man. Notice he made him in the likeness of God. In other words, we all have the, we all have the imprimatur, the, the, the stamp, the imprint of, of God's image upon us, where image bears of God. But wait a minute. Verse two says he created them male and female and he blessed them and named them man in the day that they were created. And it originally means Adam, but it, but technically it's about man, mankind, man. Verse three, when Adam lived 130 years, he became the father of a son. Notice, notice, here it is. Verse three, when Adam lived 130 years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image and named himself. Then the days of Adam and then the, the, the, in the days of Adam, after he became the father of self were 800 years and he had other sons and daughters. Do you, do you see this? And of course, then he lived 930 years and he died. But wait, go back to verse three. The Bible says when Adam had lived 130 years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness and in his own image. That's key. I don't know if you all seen this before. That's very telling that although, although we are made in the image of God and most importantly, although Adam primarily was made in the image of God, now there's another image and likeness that Adam is now procreating. He is now making descendants after his own image and likeness. What, what do you mean Seiko? What I mean by that is this, that Adam is not perfect anymore. How do we know that Adam is not perfect anymore? Well, because his, his, his firstborn, his son, Kane murdered his son, Abel, who was his brother. So now this image that Adam has has been marred, has been tainted with sin. One commentator writes, this is at the bottom of the, of the, of the text. You can see it there as Adam was created in the image of God. So did he beget in his own likeness after his image? That is to say, he transmitted the image of God in which he was created, not in the purity in which it came direct from God, but in the form given to it by his own self-determination, modified and corrupted by sin. So although man is still has the Imago day, that Imago day is marred. That Imago day has been affected and infected with sin. Am I making sense? And we're just talking about the condition of mankind. We haven't even gotten to the other elements yet. We haven't even gotten to the other tenants of Tulip. Because again, my question, the question that I'm asking is this, the question that I'm asking is this, ladies and gentlemen. What are we going to do about this dead body? We have a dead body among us. How are we going to resurrect this dead body? This dead body has to be made alive. And who can do it? You, me? Can we resurrect ourself? Can we make ourself come to life? What are we going to do with this dead body, ladies and gentlemen? Because dead things don't do nothing. Dead folk don't choose. Dead folk don't hear. Dead folk are dead. They are incapable of responding. So what are we going to do with this dead body? I'm just asking, what are we going to do with this dead body? We act as though we give man more credit than God does. God gives man no credit for his salvation. None. What's the weather? None. Period. You can get a goose egg in salvation class. As a matter of fact, you get an eye incomplete. You can't do anything. None of us could. But after some of us, we want to give man just a little bit credit, just a little bit of a purpose in this whole salvation thing. But God doesn't. God said that every thought and imagination of our heart was only evil all the time. I mean, this is what God says about us. I'm not saying that this is what God says. So we have to deal with this condition first. What is the spiritual condition of man? Answer, DOA, dead on arrival. None of us, though we may have our heart beating and our blood pumping and flowing through our veins, all of us, when we come out of the birth canal, we're dead on arrival spiritually speaking before God because that's what the Bible says. Ladies and gentlemen, God wrote this. I just quoted. So don't get mad at me. Don't try to act as though I'm making this stuff up. I'm giving you book chapter verse. I'm showing you what the Bible says that out to the fall, the image of God, though, though God's image has been marred, has been tainted, has been affected and infected with sin. And it didn't take too long for this sin to manifest itself in human history. We see the first murder in Genesis four. I mean, from a number standpoint, just one chapter later. So it doesn't look good so far for man, does it? God says the thoughts and intentions of his heart were only evil all the time, all the time. Now let's look at some other texts. Let's look at, and we know some of these. We know some of these. And we're just dealing, and it's not exhaustive, but I just want to give you a representative list of verses here, just for you to have in your memory. Jeremiah 1323, Jeremiah 1323, let's see how Jeremiah talks about man's condition. He says, can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard, his spots? He's using rhetoric. He's speaking rhetorically. He knows the answer to the question. He's just basically challenging those who are, he's dealing with to respond to it as well too. Can the Ethiopian change his skin? Let's put it in 21st century terms. Can a black man change his skin? We ain't talking about Michael. We ain't talking about Michael. No, no, no. Can an Ethiopian change his skin on his own? Or how about a leopard? Can a leopard change his spots? Jeremiah says, right, exactly. And you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil. And then in just, in the 17th chapter, we all know this one, the heart is deceitful, then all things, then all else, and desperately sick. Who can understand it? Who can understand it? He's talking about the human heart, the human heart. Who can understand the human heart? You and I can't even understand the things that we do and why we do what we do. Again, the question is being raised. I'm trying to find out what we're going to do about this dead body, folks. What are we going to do about this dead body? We have a corpse among us. We have a corpse among us, ladies and gentlemen. What is we going to do? Ezekiel chapter 16 verse 1 through 12. And I'm just giving you some Old Testament texts to prove a spiritual point in reality as well for the New Testament believer for us. But we know that God is dealing with Israel. And Ezekiel chapter 16 verse 1. The text reads, Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations and say thus saith the Lord God to Jerusalem. Your origin and your birth are from the land of the Canaanite. Your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. As for your birth, on the day you were born, your neighbor court was not cut, nor were you washed with water for cleansing. You were not rubbed with salt or even wrapped in cloths. No eye looked with pity on you to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field for you were abhorred on the day you were born. When I passed by you and saw you squirming in your blood, I said to you while you were in your blood, live. Yes, I said to you while you were in your blood, live. I made you numerous like the plants of the field. Then you grew up, became tall and reached the age for fine ornaments. Your breasts were formed and your hair had grown yet you were naked and bare. Then I passed by you and saw you and behold you were at the time for love. So I spread my skirt over you and covered your nakedness. I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became mine, declares the Lord. Then I bathed you with water. I washed off your blood from you and anointed you with oil. I also clothed you with embroidered cloth and put sandals on purple, purple skin on your feet and I wrapped you with fine linen and covered you with silk. I adorn you with ornaments, put bracelets on your hands and a necklace around your neck. I also put a ring in your nostril, earrings in your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. You see these eyes that God did? He said, I saw you abandoned, left for dead. And if it wasn't for God, he says, you'd have been dead. You'd have rotted away. But God did this. He told them live and they lived. Ezekiel 37, verse 1 through 10. Oh, I love this verse. I love this passage. Vision of Valley of the Dry Bones. Verse 1, the hand of the Lord was upon me and he brought me out of the spirit of the Lord and it set me down in the middle of the valley and it was full of bones. He calls me to pass among them round about and behold, there were many, there were very many on the surface of the valley and low, they were very dry. He said to me, son of man, can these bones live? You see this? God asked Ezekiel a question. He said, son of man, can these bones live? Ezekiel to say, sure they can live. They can live on their own. No, what did Ezekiel say? Oh, Lord God, you know. You know whether they can and notice what he says. He didn't say God didn't ask Ezekiel, will these bones live? He said, can they? Can denotes ability? Does, do these bones, these dry dead scattered bones? Do they have the ability on their own to live again? And Ezekiel humbly answered and said, oh, Lord God, you know. Again, he said to me, verse four, prophesy over these bones and say to them, oh, dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord God to these bones. Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you that you may come to life. I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin and put breath in you. Why, Lord, that you may come alive and that you will know that I am the Lord. So I prophesied, Ezekiel says, and as I was commanded, he couldn't do it unless God gave him the power to do it. And as I prophesied, there was a noise and behold, rattling and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And I looked and behold, sinews were on them and flesh grew and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them. Then he said to me, verse nine, prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, thus says the Lord God, come from the four winds, oh breath, and breathe on these slain that they come to life. So I prophesied as he commanded me and the breath came into them and they came to life and stood on their feet and exceedingly great army. Are you getting the point? Are you getting the point? I'm not done. Let's go to the New Testament. Ephesians chapter two. Ephesians chapter two. My brother, Corey read verse eight and nine yesterday, but I believe verses one through five needs to be read as well for context. Amen. Ephesians chapter two, verse one through five. We got to find out how can this corpse be made alive, right? We're still trying to deal with this dead corpse, people. We have a dead man among us, us, ourselves. Ephesians chapter two, verse one. And oh, by the way, this is the condition of all of us prior to Christ, although Paul is right into the Church of Ephesus. He's talking about all of us. Every believer prior to salvation, this was who we were. Verse one, and you were dead and your trespasses and sins, you, y'all, us, ussises, were dead and your trespasses and sins in which you formerly walked. See, when you say, we don't walk according to the world anymore. We formerly walked according to the prince of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, according to the course of this world, excuse me, according to the prince of the power of the air of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them, we too, all formerly lived in the lust of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature, children of wrath, even as the rest. But it's conjunction. Oh, blessed conjunction. But God, being rich in mercy, he didn't say, but man. He didn't say, but sinner. No, no, no, but God, being rich in mercy because of his great love, which he loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive. Oh, praise God. God did this. He made us alive. This made is in the indicative mood, meaning it's a fact. He made us alive, ladies and gentlemen. He made us alive, each one of us. He made each one of us alive together with Christ. Oh, bless his name. By grace you have been saved, and he ain't done. Not only did he make us alive, but he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. And why did he do that? Verse seven, so that in the ages to come, he might show the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Now, verse eight. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not as a result of works, free will, your decision, you walk in the aisle, you pray in some prayer. I don't know, not as a result of works, why? So that no man, no one can boast. For we are his workmanship, we are his masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works. That's why he saved us for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them. That's why he did it. That's why he did it. And some of you get mad when I say, if you are claiming that you had anything to do with your salvation, I say you are a glory whore. And you get offended? No, you know who should be most offended? God should be most offended. Why? Because you're trying to take and rob him for his glory and it only belongs to him. Give it back. Give it back. Give it back to him. It's not yours, it's not mine. Jonah knew that salvation belonged to God. When he got vomited back on dry land, he said salvation is of the Lord. It belongs to God and only God. We're just recipients of his amazing grace, sovereign grace, electing grace, keeping grace, sanctifying grace. That's what we are. One commentator writes this. Actually not a commentator, but the word study dictionary of the New Testament. I want to read this because I want you to see this type of death that you and I, prior to God making us alive, we experienced. Although we were walking around, we were walking corpses. The word dead is the Greek word nekros. We get the word necrophilia or necromaniac or means dead, means dead. Just look down at the bottom and just give me the term here. The word here is nekros and it means a corpse. Originally it means a corpse, means dead, right? But in its context, figuratively and the plural, those dead to Christ and his gospel, meaning those spiritually dead. Metaphorically, metaphorically, in opposition to the life of the gospel. Meaning we are opponents of the gospel prior to salvation. Metaphorically in opposition to the life of the gospel. Example, number one, a person's dead to Christ and his gospel and thus exposed to punishment, spiritually dead. And notice the reference right here, Ephesians 2. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins. You were dead. We were dead in our trespasses and sins. They're showing you what the scripture says, ladies and gentlemen. That's all. But I want us to look at, let's look at another point here. I wanna read to you, let's see. I wanna read to you Spurgeon's sermon on human inability. He's sermon on human inability. He says this, quote, let me make sure I got my comments over here, go back over here. Hold on, do this real quick. He's sermon on human inability. He says, I shall endeavor this morning, first of all, to notice man's inability, where it consists. Secondly, the father's drawings, what these are and how they are exerted upon the soul. And then I shall conclude by noticing a sweet consolation which may be derived from the seemingly barren and terrible text. His sermon is titled again, like I said, human inability. And he gives the John 644 reference in what he was preaching and teaching from, okay? So he says, quote, first then man's inability. The text says, no one can come to me except the father which had sent me, draw him. Where in does this inability lie? First, it does not lie in any physical defect. If in coming to Christ, moving the body or walking with defeat should be of any assistance, certainly man has all physical power to come to Christ in that sense. I remember to have heard a very foolish antinomian declare that he did not believe any man had the power to walk to the house of God unless the father drew him. Now, the man was plainly foolish because he must have seen that as long as a man was alive and had legs, it was easier for him to walk to the house of God as to the house of Satan. If coming to Christ includes the utterance of a prayer, man has no physical defect in that respect. If he be not dumb, he can say a prayer as easily he can utter blasphemy. It is as easy for a man to sing one of the songs of Zion as to sing a profane and rabbinian song. There is no lack of physical power in coming to Christ. All that can be wanted with regard to the bodily strength man must assuredly has in any part of salvation which consists of that is totally and entirely in the power of man without any assistance from the spirit of God. And he's just speaking humanly speaking by the way. Nor again does this inability lie in any mental lack. I can believe this Bible to be true just as easily as I can believe any other book to be true. So far as believing on Christ is an act of the mind, I am just as able to believe on Christ as I am able to believe on anything else or anybody else. Let this statement be true, be but true. It is idle to tell me that I cannot believe it. I can believe the statement that Christ makes us well as I can believe the statement of any other person. There is no deficiency of faculty in the mind. It is as capable of appreciating as a mere mental act, the guilt of sin, as it is appreciating the guilt of assassination. It is just as possible for me to exercise the mental idea of seeking God as it is to exercise the thought of ambition. I have all the mental strength and power that can possibly be needed so far as mental power is needed in salvation at all. Nay, there is not any man so ignorant that he can plead a lack of intelligence as an excuse for rejecting the gospel. The defect then does not lie either in the body or what we are bound to call speaking theologically the mind. It is not any lack of deficiency there, although it is a visitation, of the mind, the corruption of the ruin of it, which after all is the very essence of man's inability. Permit me to show you wherein this inability of man really does lie. It lies, here it is ladies and gentlemen, it lies deep in his nature. Through the fall and through our own sin, the nature of man has become so debased and depraved and corrupt that it is impossible for him to come to Christ without the assistance of God, the Holy Spirit. Now in trying to exhibit how the nature of man thus renders him unable to come to Christ, you must allow me to take this figure. You see a sheep, how willingly it feeds upon the herbage? You never know a sheep's sigh after carrion. It could not live on lion's food. Now bring me a wolf and you ask me whether a wolf cannot eat grass, whether it cannot be just as docile and as domesticated as the sheep, I answer no, because this nature is contrary thereunto. You say, well, it has ears and legs. Can it not hear the shepherd's voice and follow him whether so ever he leadeth it? I answer, certainly, there's no physical cause why it cannot do so, but it's nature forbids and therefore I say it cannot do so. Can it not be tamed? Can not its ferocity be removed? Probably it may so far be subdued that it may become apparently tamed, but there will always be a marked distinction between it and the sheep, because there is a distinction in nature. Now the reason why man cannot come to Christ is not because he cannot come so far as his body or his mere power of mind is concerned, but because his nature is so corrupt that he has neither the will nor the power to come to Christ unless drawn by the spirit. But let me give you a better illustration. You see a mother with a babe in her arms? You put a knife into her hand and tell her to stab that babe to the heart. She replies and very truthfully, I cannot. Now so far as her bodily power is concerned, she can. If she pleases, there is the knife and there is the child. The child cannot resist and she has quite sufficient strength in her hand immediately to stab it to his heart, but she is quite correct when she says she cannot do it. As a mere act of the mind, it is quite possible she might think of such a thing as killing the child. It is quite possible she might think of something as killing the child and yet she says she cannot think of such a thing and she does not say falsely for her nature as a mother forbids her for doing such a thing from which her soul revolts. Simply because she is that child's parent, she feels she cannot kill it. It is even so with the sinner. Coming to Christ is so obnoxious to the human nature that all those so far as physical and mental forces are concerned and these have but a very narrow sphere in salvation. Men could come if they would, it is strictly correct to say that they cannot and will not unless the father who have sent Christ doth draw them. And that's the point. And that's just the first point, y'all. That's just the first thing we're talking about under this tulip. If man is not alive, then nothing else matters. Some people, some of our brothers and sisters are giving man the ability to do something that a dead man spiritually speaking cannot do. And the Bible uses human analogy to stress a heavenly and divine point that man left to himself in his sinful, dead state cannot and will not come to Christ until or unless God the father draws him, makes him alive and brings him to himself. I don't know how that could be any more clear than what it is. Man is dead. And until or unless man is made alive, man will stay dead. Let's look at the second point. Unconditional election, that's the U. Unconditional election. What is that? Simply saying this, the God's choosing us was based on nothing he saw in us, nothing that he was going to foresee down the road. No, God chose to save man because he wanted to save man. He chose to save certain ones, certain people for his own glory. He sovereignly chose and sovereignly chooses to save his elect from their sins. Why? Because remember, listen, if man is dead, man can't do it anyway. So God chooses dead men, makes them alive, gives them the ability to respond to his saving call. Because without God, man can do nothing. Now I mean, we hear this all the time. We hear this all the time. Jesus says, apart from me, you can do nothing. And we say it, we say it, but do we understand that that has more significance to what we give credit to? He says, apart from him, apart from Christ, we can do nothing. And that includes saving ourselves. So it's not based on man's decision. It's not based on man's quote-unquote will. It's not based on man's ability to do something that God saw and said, oh wow, Seiko's gonna get saved in 2000 or whatever. And based on what I see Seiko do, I'm going to save him. No, no, that's not how God operates. That's not how God operates. Let's look at Galatians, Galatians chapter one. Galatians chapter one, verse 15. Paul writes, but when God who set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through his grace, was pleased to reveal his son and me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles. And then he says, he says in verse 16, after that, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood and so forth, right? But notice he says again in verse 15. He says, but when God who has set me apart from my mother's womb and called me through his grace, was pleased, he took pleasure in revealing his son and me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles. First Commitment is 130. Paul says, but by his doing, you are in Christ Jesus. By who's doing? By God's doing. By his doing, you are in Christ Jesus who became to us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. God gets all the glory, he gets all the credit. Since man is dead in his sin, he is unable, ladies and gentlemen, he's unable to come to God to respond to God on his own. So God in eternity past, God in all eternity in the councils of heaven, God decided, God elected and predestined those that he would save unconditionally. He did not do it on the basis of what you and I would do in the future. He did it in eternity past and he did it for his own glory. How do we know that he did it for his own glory? Romans chapter nine, verse 20 to 24. Paul is responding to rhetorical and to somewhat questions that he feel that people were gonna ask him and he beats him at the punch, if you will. He says, verse 20, on the contrary, who are you, old man, who answers back to God? The thing molded would not say to the molder, why did you make me like this, will it? Or does not the potter have the right or have a right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience, vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And he did it so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy which he prepared beforehand for glory. Even us, who he also called not from among Jews only, but also from among the Gentiles. You see that? God chooses from the same lump. He's the potter with the clay. He chooses to make one from that same lump for honorable use and dishonorable or common use. The problem with this is we honestly think and believe that there's something good about ourselves that God should want to use us. So look at the pride in that. Look at the pride in that. We think there's something good in ourselves that makes God that God should want to save us. And he says, no, I save on the counsel of my own will, on the counsel of my own will. I wanna read another quote from Charles Spurgeon. Let's see, look at number five here. Point number five. And this is under a particular redemption. Still dealing with the atonement. Gonna deal with the atonement now. Matter of fact, I'm gonna hold your thought. I'm gonna give you a little teaser for a second. I'm gonna give you a teaser for a second. I'm gonna hold back on that. I'm gonna read that in a minute. But let me get a point first. Let me get a point first. This is one of the rubs that a lot of our brothers and sisters had when it comes to the atonement. For who did Christ die for? Simple, I believe he died for his elect. He died for his elect. He died for those that God has, the God the Father have given to the Son, and only those that the Father have given to the Son. I believe that because that's what the scriptures teach. So I'm gonna look at some scriptures though, and I want us to, I mean, whether we wrestle with it or not, I mean, bottom line is, here's what the Bible says. And we're not talking about the efficacy or the power of what Christ did on the cross, his atoning work on the cross. Of course, Christ could save every single person if he wanted to. But that's not what the Bible teaches. I'm gonna start with Matthew, and then I'm gonna move a little bit around the New Testament, then I may come back into the old, just to give you a sense in the flavor of this whole atoning work of Christ. So let's look at Matthew chapter one in verse 21, Matthew 1, 21. Notice what he says, she will bear a son, you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins. As you say, he will save every people, all people everywhere, every single person from their sins. No, he says he will save his people from their sins. God has a people that he has been sent to save. Limit to the atonement, the L and tulip is that God determined that he is going to save certain people as a result. And based on his electing grace that was unconditional, and he did that in eternity past and he does that for his elect, and that is it. Because here's the question we have to ask ourselves. If Christ died for the elect, why are some of our brothers and sisters saying that he died for everyone? Because if he died for everyone, then what does that mean for what God accomplished? If his death accomplished, if his death paid for our sins, then there should be no one going to hell, no one. And if you say, oh, well, they must believe first. No, if it's already been paid for, it's been paid for. There's no one whose sin has been paid for that now has to pay for it in hell because they quote unquote didn't believe. Well, if you said that Christ's death paid for their sins, it shouldn't matter whether or not they believe, right? Just like if you paid my debt, if I owed a debt to a creditor and you found out who the creditor was and you said, okay, I'm here to pay sick or was his debt, that creditor cannot exact payment from me if you've already paid for it. Whether I wanted to pay for it or not, it doesn't matter. If you pay for it, that creditor cannot come to me demanding payment from me because you already paid for it. So the issue is what did Christ's death accomplish? It accomplished what it was sent to do, to secure and to pay for the sins of those that Christ through God elected to save through belief. So let's look at some scriptures. John chapter 10, we'll go there. John 10, verse 11, he says, I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. Jesus didn't say I lay down my life for everyone. He said, I lay down my life for the sheep. The sheep, not the goats, not the dogs, sheep. He says, I lay down my life for the sheep. Let's look at verse, let's go down to verse 19. We'll start there. A division occurred among the Jews because of these words. Many of them were saying he has a demon in his insane. Why do you listen to him? Others were saying they're not the saints of a demon possessing, a demon cannot open the eyes of the blind, can he? Then in verse 24, the Jews then gathered around him and were saying to him, how long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered him, verse 25, I have told you and you do not believe. The works that I do in my father's name, these testify of me, but you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. And I give them eternal life. And they that is the sheep will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My father who has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the father's hand. I and the father are one. I and the father are one. They are in agreement. Acts 20, 28, Paul writes to the church of Ephesus. He says, the Ephesian elders rather than Acts 20, verse 28. He says, be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock among which the Holy Spirit has made you oversee as the shepherd, the church of God which he purchased with his own blood, the church of God. He didn't purchase the world, he purchased the church. He's called out ones. John 17, John 17, verse one and two we'll look at that first. Jesus spoke these things and lifting up his eyes to heaven said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son that the son may glorify you. Even as you gave him authority over all flesh that to all whom you have given him, notice. All whom you have given him. God didn't give to the son every single person. He said, all those to whom you have given him, he may give eternal life. And so my question for my brothers and sisters who believe that the death of Christ secured the salvation for everyone because they believe that all means all and that's all all means. Well, all has to be interpreted and it has to be interpreted according to his intended context. Because if that's the case, then what do we do with Jesus' high priestly prayer? If people are saying that the death of Christ as his atonement is unlimited, unlimited according to what? Because according to scripture, it's limited to those he chooses to save his elect. That Christ did not die for every single person. If he died for every single person, then that means there's no one in hell in hell is echoing right now as we speak. Because you can't commit double jeopardy. But let's look because also if Christ died for everyone then why doesn't Christ pray for everyone? Oh, yeah, that's a good question, isn't it? Well, let's see. Verse nine, give a little bit of context for a minute. Verse six, he says, I have manifested your name to the men, notice to the men whom you gave me out of the word. That sounds like election, doesn't it? That sounds like election. That sounds like particular redemption, limited atonement. That sounds like something that God, the Father did and the Son now is receiving. I have manifested your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours and you gave them to me and they have kept your word. Now they have come to know that everything you have given me is from you. Verse eight, for the words which you gave me, I have given to them and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from you and they believed that you sent me. Verse nine, I ask on their behalf, on whose behalf? Oh, is it possibly verse, I don't know, verse six, to those you have gave to me out of the world? Yeah, so in verse nine, he says, I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world. If Christ's death, if Christ's atonement is for everyone then why isn't Christ praying for everyone? Why isn't Christ praying for everyone? I ask on their behalf. I ask on these disciples, these minutes you've given to me. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those noticed, but of those whom you have given me, why, for they are yours. But wait a minute, because he continues on. And all things that are mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world and yet they themselves are in the world. And I come to you, Holy Father, keep them in your name. The name which you have given me that they may be one even as we are. While I was with them, I was keeping them in your name which you have given me and I guarded them and none of them perish, but the son of perdition so that the scripture might be fulfilled, would be fulfilled. But now I come to you and these things I speak in the world so that they may have my joy made full of themselves. I have given them your word and the world has hated them because they are not of the world even as I am not of the world. I do not ask you to take them out of the world but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth. As you have sent me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. For their sakes I sanctify myself that they themselves may also be sanctified in truth. Verse 20, for those of you who are just thinking that this is applies to apostles, no, it also applies to us as well. Why? Verse 20, I do not ask on behalf of these alone but for those also who believe in me through their word that they may all be one even as you father are in me and I and you that they also may be in us so that the world may believe that you sent me. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Why does the world have, why would that matter if Christ's death paid for everyone's sins? Number one, number one, why is hell not empty? Why is hell not empty? And number two, why did Jesus say in verse nine of John 17, he's not asking on behalf of the world. He's only asking on behalf of those that you gave him. Sounds like to me, if Christ's death paid for the sins of everybody then he should be praying for everybody and he's not. Isaiah 53, let's go to Old Testament text. Cause there's a correlation here. Isaiah 53, 11 and 12. As a result of the anguish of his soul he will see it and be satisfied by the knowledge of the righteous one. My servant would justify the many not everyone, the many, as he would bear their iniquities. Therefore I would allot him a portion with the great and he would divide the booty with the strong because he poured out himself to death and he was numbered with the transgressors yet he himself bore the sin of many, not everybody. And he interceded for the transgressors. Now I wanna read to you Charles Spurgeon Sermon on particular redemption, particular redemption. I've heard it over that to come to the last point which is the sweetest of all, Jesus Christ. We are told in our text came into the world to give his life a ransom for many. The greatness of Christ redemption may be measured by the extent of the design of it. He gave his life. He gave his life a ransom for many. I must now return to that controversial point again. We are told, I mean those of us who are commonly nicknamed by the title of Calvinists and we are very much ashamed of that. We are not very much ashamed of that rather. We think that Calvin after all knew more about the gospel than almost any man who has ever lived uninspired. This is Spurgeon's opinion. We are often told that we limit the atonement of Christ because we say that Christ has not made a satisfaction for all men or all men would be saved. Now our reply to this is that on the other hand our opponents limited, we do not. The Armenians say Christ died for all men. Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say no, certainly not. We asked him the next question. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer no. There are blights to admit this if they are consistent. They say no. Christ has died that any man may be saved if and then follow certain conditions of salvation. Well they say we will go back to the old statement. We say then rather we will go back to the old statement. Christ did not die so as beyond a doubt to secure the salvation of anybody, did he? You must say no. Your blights will say so. For you believe that even after a man has been pardoned yet he may fall from grace and perish. Now who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why you? You say that Christ did not die so as to infallibly secure the salvation of anybody. We beg your pardon when you say we limit Christ's death when we say no, my dear sir. No, my dear sir, it is you who do that do it. We say Christ so died that he infallibly is secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number who through Christ's death not only may be saved but are saved, must be saved and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement. You may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it. Just wanted to read that part for you. Because again, if we're talking about the atonement and we're talking about the work with Christ and how far does this reach? We know that Christ's atoning work could save anyone but what was the purpose of it? What was the purpose of it? Was Christ's death in other words, was Christ's death potential or was it particular? Did it have a purpose? Because if it was just for anybody then why would Christ say that he came to save his people from his sins? Why would he say I have other sheep that are not of this fold? He didn't say I have everybody. I have other sheep he said that are not of this fold. I must bring them also. Just asking simple questions. And again, the question I'm asking for those of us who are pushing back on this atonement thing. And I know some of the questions and as a matter of fact, none of my brother is here and I wanna answer this. And so I'm going to tie in the refuting text, quote unquote, to the text that I believe, to the text that I believe basically slams or I'm gonna say slams. I ought to say basically response. How about that? Overfuse with my brothers that teach that Christ died for everyone. My brother Corey mentioned second John, I'm sorry, excuse me, first John 2 verse 2. And I'm going to cite that here because I have questions. And hopefully my brother and I will get this debate going and he can explain it better than he did yesterday because I think it was still sorely lacking. First John chapter 2, first John chapter 2, I'll start at verse one. Of course, he's writing to believers. My little children, I'm writing these things to you so that you may not sin. That if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ, the righteous. And he himself is the perpetuation for our sins. And not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. Now, some of you may say, okay, well, there he is right there. It's the whole world. It's the whole world. It's, that's, world means every single person. And it shocked me that my brother would use that text to think and believe that first John 212 is proof that Christ's propitiation is for the sins of the entire world. And I'm going to prove to you that it is not. First of all, John is a Jew and he's writing to people, believers by the way. And remember, the Gospel of John, it's the same apostle that wrote the Gospel of John. Same apostle who wrote the Gospel of John. And in that, and in John 3, Jesus meets a Jew named Nicodemus, a Pharisee, right? Teacher of the law. And he explains to Nicodemus that God's purpose, yes, salvation is for the Jews, but it's not just for Jews only, which is why John 316 is clear. That God, God so loved the world. Yes, those that are in the world, but he has a special love for his elect. So he says for God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son and it doesn't say whosoever. It's the believing ones should not perish, but have everlasting life. This was a shock, this was a shock to a Jewish reader and a teacher to know that the Christ salvation is more than just for a particular ethnic group, but it's for other ethnicities as well, Jew and Gentile. So when John is writing and speaking to these Christians here and first John in his first letter, he's saying that Christ's propitiary atonement is not just for us, but it's for the world. It's for all kinds of people in the world. How do I know that? Because the context makes it clear. This is the same John, ladies and gentlemen, the same John who uses the world in the fifth chapter of his first letter. Don't believe me? Let's go there. Because the question I'm asking my brother Corey and others who think that first John two, two means everybody, then I need to ask this question. Then what does John say here in first John 519? We know that we are of God and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil. Wait a minute, John. You just said that we belong to God. You say we belong to God, John. Then you said the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one or in the evil one lies in the lap of Satan. Well, we're in this world. So does that mean that Christians lie in the dominion and realm and power and auspices of Satan? Surely that's not what John is saying. Let's look at another one. Let's look at another one. Let's go to his gospel, John 1219. So the Pharisees said to one another, you see that you are not doing any good. Look, the whole world has gone after him. Question, did the whole entire world go after Christ? The whole entire world? The, I mean, everybody went after Christ? Or is there some figure of speech or hyperbole here? Let's look at another text. Let's look at Luke, Luke chapter two, verse one. Now in those days, the decree went out from Caesarea, I mean, the decree went out, excuse me, from Caesar Augustus, excuse me, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth. Everybody, Caesar had a census. He actually conducted a census of every single person. Everybody on the entire planet? Of course not. Of course not. This was the first census taken while Aquinas was governor of Syria. And everyone was on his way to register for the census each to his own city. He's talking about Rome. He's not talking about the entire world, the entire planet. Matthew three, five and six. Then Jerusalem was going out to him and all Judea and all the district around Jordan and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River as they confessed their sins. Everybody did every single person in Jerusalem and in Judea go out to be baptized? Of course not. Of course not. Let's look at another one. Colossians one, five and six. Paul writes, because of the hope laid up for you in heaven of which you previously heard the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you just as in all the world, also it is constantly bearing fruit in the whole entire world, the whole entire world. I mean, the gospel has reached everywhere at the time that Paul was writing this. Of course not. Context is key. And that's my point. But my question is for those like my brother Corey and others who believe that first John two and two, that Christ's death paid for the sins of everybody and that it was not particularly for his elect then why doesn't Christ pray for the entire world and only praise for his elect? Let me go to another one. Maybe two more and then I'll ask this last question when we continue on. Because I know this is another text a lot of people like to use to try to claim to make their point. Verse one of second Peter two. But false prophets also rose among the people just as there will also be false teachers among you who will secretly introduce destructive heresies even denying the master who bought them. Even denying the master who bought them. I don't know how this can be a case for the atonement says nothing about the atonement doesn't say anything about Christ dying. Nothing. The word here for master is not karyos. It is despatist and it just simply means sovereign ruler or owner. So in the grand scheme of things, ultimately God owns it all. He's the creator. He's a sovereign ruler of the universe of the universe. Everything belongs to him. The context is key. These individuals, these false teachers are not belonging to Christ in a salvific sense but they belong to God as a creation sense. God owns all of mankind. So the word master here is not karyos when we get Lord. It's master meaning despatist meaning a sovereign ruler, supreme authority, one who has the right over someone or something else. So yes, false teachers belong to God, false every human being belongs to God. But Peter's not speaking about redemption. Second Peter chapter three, verse nine. The Lord is not slow or slack concerning his promise some count slowness or slackness but it's patient toward you. Not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. Now, I hear this verse being used so many times and people think that this verse is applying to unbelievers. Well, it cannot apply to unbelievers because the context makes it clear who Peter is referring to in his letter. And just a simple cursory of this text, you'll see the point of who Peter is talking to, okay? So verse nine, he says, the Lord is not slow about his promise of some count slowness but it's patient toward you, right? Who is the you that Peter is referring to? Answer verse one, same letter. This now beloved, this second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder. He's writing, he's talking to his beloved, his children talking to Christians if you will, okay? Is that all right? Is that okay? Can we at least concede to that point so far? Hopefully, yes, no, let's see. That's just in the first verse of the third chapter. Let's go to chapter one, same letter. Simon Peter, a bond servant and apostle of Jesus Christ to those who have received the kind of faith of the same kind, those of us who have received the faith of the same kind as ours by the righteousness of God and Savior Jesus Christ. Grace and peace be multiplied to you and the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord seeing that his divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness through the true knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and excellence. And if that does not convince you enough, not a problem. Peter writes two letters. Let's go to his first letter then. Maybe this one will do. First Peter chapter one, verse one. Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ to those who reside as aliens scattered throughout Pontius, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bethany who are chosen. According to God, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father by the sanctifying work of the spirit to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood. There's the atonement right there too, ladies and gentlemen. Particular redemption is right there in verse two. Let me tell you atonement right there in verse two. His death applies not to the world but to his elect, to his elect. According to the foreknowledge of God the Father by the sanctifying work of the spirit to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood. May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. So second Peter three, nine. Go back in real quick. Second Peter three, nine. The Lord is not slower about his promise as some count slow does but his patient toward you not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. The you that he's referring to is his elect. Those who are chosen. Those who are chosen. Those who are chosen. Let's look at another point. Look at another point. You know total depravity, right? Unconditional election, limited atonement. Now we on the eye, irresistible grace. Irresistible grace. What does that mean? Simply, those that God choose to save, they will come because his will overrides man's will thus making man willing to come to Christ. His grace cannot be thwarted or his will cannot be thwarted. His purposes will not be forestalled if he chooses and decides to save anyone and someone they will be saved. They will be saved. Nobody goes to heaven kicking and screaming. Nobody's gonna have their arms folded, mean mugging because they didn't wanna be in heaven. Nobody. Nobody. But it shows and it gives another example of how prideful and how arrogant man is when it comes to this issue of salvation. Because we honestly believe and think that our will and our power is stronger and it is more powerful than God's. And unfortunately, that's being basically taught through this whole idea of free will. And that's the sad thing. So remember I asked the question, asked the question here, does God woo sinners to come to Christ? Remember I asked that question. Is God, is God like Jeffrey Osborn? I mean, is that who God is? Is he like a Jeffrey Osborn to a lot of you Christians? I mean, he just woos you. He just serenades you. Is that the God you serve? To some of y'all, he is. And in order for you to go to God, he's gonna have to talk sweet to you because you ain't just gonna be coming to anybody. You ain't coming to me correct God. Really? Okay. Well, let's just see how God's will and how his grace and how his power overrides man's power. Let's just look again in the scriptures. Again, those who God elects, he draws to himself through his powerful grace, thus making you and I as his recipients, his objects of salvation compelling to come to him. So in other words, ladies and gentlemen, when God calls, we come. When God calls, we come. When God calls, we will come. John 637, all that the Father gives me will come to me. How simple is that? How simple is that? All that the Father gives me will come to me. They will come. They will come. And he says, in the one who comes to me, I will certainly not cast out. I mean, I just, I don't know what you do with that statement. I don't know what you can do with that statement other than by saying that if man has the ability to decide whether or not he's going to come versus God, then who's sovereign? Who's sovereign in salvation here? Because it certainly isn't God, then it must be man. Verse 44, same chapter, no one can come to me. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day. And notice it's those that the Father gives him will come and those who come, he will raise up, not everyone in the world. Those that the Father gives and only those who the Father gives. Again, John 10, 16, look at it again. John 10, 16, he says, I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must bring them also. And they will hear my voice and they will become one flock with one shepherd. They will hear and it will become one flock. And he's right, remember Jesus is talking and he's speaking to a Jewish audience. He says, I have other sheep that are not of this fold. That is not of the nation of Israel. I must bring them also. We know that it's true because who was Cornelius? He was a Gentile. I mean, if you just look at the text, if you look at the text, he says, I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must bring them also. And he says, and they will hear my voice. Notice, and this hearing, this hearing implies that they will respond, that they will come. And if they're hearing it, it's not just some audible, it's not just them hearing the words. No, it's a compelling, it's compelling. Romans 919, Romans 919. He says, you would then will say to me, you would say to me then, why does he still find fault? For who resists his will? Answer, no one can resist God's will. And in a sense, and here's the sense. In a sense, if God wants to save someone or decides or chooses or decrees or sovereignly, once a person to be saved, they're going to be saved. And they're gonna be grateful for being saved. Why? Because their nature has changed. That's why. And the Psalmist in Psalm 110 in verse three, he says, your people will volunteer freely in the day of your power and holy array from the womb of the dawn. Your youth are to you as the dude. And notice that the poetic language, but the first stem of verse three, your people will volunteer freely. Literally will be free will offerings in the day of your power. They're going to come because God gives them now the ability to come. He changes their nature, their disposition, their desire to come. So again, I'm just asking a question, y'all. If God is like Jeffrey Osborn to you, where he has to serenade you into the kingdom, you may wanna reconsider that. Just saying. Let's look at the last one. Here's the perseverance or preservation, really the perseverance of the saints. What is the perseverance of the saints? Some of those that God has chosen, God has elected, God has sealed with his spirit, they will persevere to the end. There are no apostates in heaven. None. There are no believers who were saved and now they're no longer saved. Those that God will be saved to the day of redemption. Because that's what the word of God says. He keeps all those that belong to him. Because the question we have to ask of himself is this, if God does not keep those that he has elected and those that he has saved until the day of redemption, and now because man decides not to be saved anymore, what does that say about God's power? Then who is stronger? Who's now almighty? You tell me, I'm just asking. Who now is the one that should now be seen as God and be seen as sovereign because their will overrides God's will? That's the question. This is why I believe this is important. This is, I guess you can say, it's an indictment. It's an indictment against God's character and God's power. I mean, that's the implication that I see. That when a person says that I can now decide to no longer be saved, that I can now decide that I don't want to be saved anymore. I don't want to be a Christian anymore. God, I want out. I want out of this whole salvation kingdom thing. I quit. Then the question you have to ask yourself, number one, what does that say about God's power? And then number two, what do they really say to begin with? Because now what do we do with verses like this? In Jude 24, we all know, we all hear it in benedictions in churches. Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling. Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and make you stand in the presence of his glory, blameless with great joy. What do we do with this? What do we do with this? If God is not able to keep us, then who's keeping us? If he's not able to make us stand, then whose ability are we relying on to stand? John 10, 27 to 29. My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they follow me and I give eternal life to them and they will never perish. And no one shall snatch or no one will snatch them out of my hand. My father who has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the father's hand. But I guess, but man's will though, is stronger than God's will. Man's power is stronger than God's power. According to people who believe this, Ephesians 1, verse 3 through 14, bless be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing and the heavenly places in Christ, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us to adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the kind and tension of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight, he made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his kind and tension, which he purposed in him with the view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times that is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to his purpose, who works all things after the counsel of his will. To the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ will be to the praise of his glory. In him, you also after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed, you were sealed in him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance with the view to the redemption of God's own possession to the praise of his glory. And this is again, what I believe, how God keeps us. The Holy Spirit seals us. So are we saying that the Holy Spirit is not as powerful as man's will? Philippians 2, 12 and 13. So then my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Not work for it, but work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Why? For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work or will and to do his good pleasure. His good pleasure. So again, I'm just asking a simple question. What makes Calvinism, quote unquote, these doctrines unbiblical? How is it that mankind has the ability to do anything apart from God's regenerating grace? If man is dead, show me one person, and I mean show me one person who God has made alive, genuinely saved, giving him or her his spirit, only for them to no longer be saved. Show me one person, and I'm gonna show you a person who was never truly regenerated in the first place. But if you believe that a person can be saved, born from above and yet no longer be saved because they decide not to be saved, that is an indictment on the saving grace and power of God, the sealing work of the spirit and Christ's death on the cross. But I'm curious, show me one person, show me one individual who has been saved. And if you look at the parable of the soils, only one produced fruit, the others superficial. It took no root, it took no effect. None, but show me one individual, show me one person that claims to be saved and now they claim now that they once were saved but they're not saved anymore. Yeah, show it to me, I'll wait. Don't worry, I'll wait. Yeah, I'll wait, we'll both be waiting because again I'm gonna show you a person that does not know and has not been changed by the saving power and regenerating work of the spirit of God. So let me see what you say. He says, answering my question, bald-headed guy, who are you saying the whole world represents in First John 2? The whole world represents believers, it does not represent the entire world. That's what I'm saying. First John 2 2 is not talking about every single person, sir, it's talking about all kinds of people. Just like Paul mentions in First Timothy 2, that the God desires all men to be saved. You can say everybody to be saved, all kinds of men, all kinds of people to be saved. That's what I mean. But we can set this debate up, sir, next week. People are looking for us to have this conversation, sir. So hopefully you can do that. Hopefully you can do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How about you promise to go ahead and set the thumbnail up and set the date? Ladies and gentlemen, can y'all get with Corey Miner and tell him to get a move on and let's set this date up? He's been stalling. Because again, if you're saying that First John 2 2 is referring to every single person, then I have questions to ask you. Maybe you can watch the replay and you can tell me then how do you coincide these other texts that says world? Yeah, you know, world, all and all that kind of stuff, yeah. And then you can tell me also, why didn't Jesus pray for the entire world if he died for the whole world? Everybody in the world. And why isn't Hale empty? Hale should have a vacancy sign, don't you think? So, okay, look, brother, just set the date up. Just set the date up, brother. Just set the date up. Just set the date up. We're all waiting for that. We're all waiting on that glorious day that you make the church upset. Oh man. Yeah, I know, huh, Proverbs? I know. This ain't no young Don debate, homeboy. But yeah, so, I did not, Vecco, you don't wanna know, bro. You don't wanna know. You don't wanna know. Ask Cory, he's the petty one. He'll tell you. He'll tell you. But anyway, two hours and 23 minutes in, I'm gonna go ahead and shut it down here. Hopefully, hopefully, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, you understand my position on this. And again, we all know that we have different views on this, but I hope and pray that we can have these discussions, disagree respectfully, disagree lovingly, and not throw shots and jabs and trying to question somebody's salvation, because by God's grace, I did not do that here. All right, so, but yeah. So anyway, just wanted to present my position, and hopefully, like I said, when Cory and I do our debate, you all will be able to, in real time, it'll be a more real-time, lively discussion versus it being the way that it has been these past few days, all right? So, but I'm done, I'm done. Again, please like the video. Thank you, moderators, for holding it down in the chat. I do appreciate that, and definitely appreciate the support and the love. But again, please like this video. Please share this video. If you'd like to support the ministry again financially, you can do so by clicking the donation links below, and also the merchandise link below as well too. The snacks is gonna be on Cory, Tyra. The snacks is gonna be on Cory. We're gonna put the snacks on him. He got the money. He got the money. Yeah, snacks on Cory. Snacks and drinks on Cory. See, he gonna put a thumbs down. Say that, that's so petty. Oh man, but anyway, that's my time, brothers and sisters. Now, we ain't fast. Yeah, you know what? Yeah, you're gonna need the fast. Yeah, you need the fast, you need the fast. But anyway, y'all, that's my time. I'm pretty sure Cory is gonna be getting his live started in about another 30 minutes to give or take. But I appreciate you all. And that's my time. You guys have a great day. If I don't see you again this week, I'm gonna have a blessed Lord's Day. And y'all know the drill. Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. God bless. You're still here? It's over. Go home. Go.