 Hi, I'm James Randi and this is Massimo Polidoro, hello from the fine country of Italy He's come over here to visit us and he's Been a great guest and we've had a wonderful time hadn't seen one another in several years And it's about time that we got together again Massimo, I wanted to sit you in front of the camera here in order to ask you what is the state of the skeptical? Movement let's say in Italy. I know the state of it here. I know it in China I know it in Australia, but I don't know much about it in Italy. What is the current status? Well, Italy has the It's called CHICAP which means the Italian the Italian committee for investigation of claims of And it's an organization that now is about 20 years old and it was started Thanks to Pirrangelo and yourself who came to Italy and helped us start it and of course all the people at CHICAP occurred and everybody helped us to to get things started and then along the years it grew we have a magazine we have Memberships and we organize National conferences and we are what we are most proud of it. The fact is it's investigating things so we have In this 20 years investigated a few hundreds of cases of many many many kinds from this blood of Sanjana areas to Magnetic heels to psychics of any kind and we receive dozens of letters from people claiming to have psychic powers and of course they are all mostly Honest people really believe that yes. Oh, yes They have no clue on how to test these things self-diluted folks and you've got to treat them with a lot of respect I'm sure you see that we certainly have seen it here Because they are honestly self-diluted. They don't know how to test their own claims Oh, as you know, Massimo and most of our viewers will know the James Randy educational foundation has a million dollar challenge that we put out there and we have Spoken to people in the Italian group, of course And we've informed them as we do with all skeptical groups all around the world that if claimants People who say they've got some sort of supernatural power or believe that they have Are welcome to be tested by local groups and foreign groups such as And they've done many tests as the the German group at GW UP has done for us in Germany And that serves as the preliminary test. Now, of course that they don't pass the Reliminary test for the million dollar challenge They have to wait 12 months until they reapply if they want to and very seldom do we ever get anybody reapplying Because they didn't give excuses like well, I guess this is the kind of thing that can't really be tested Oh, yes, it can of course, or we wouldn't get involved that but that's usually the last we see of them and Chica does of that exact same nature I should also mention that many of our viewers won't know who Piero Angelo is and but in Italy It's incredible you walk down the street with the man and it's like God is walking down the street beside you He's very very well known. He's as well known as someone like Walter Cronkite Yeah, for example here in this country would be known and though. He's in much better state Because he's very much alive Piero is a wonderful gentleman as we know and he is very much the moving spirit behind the Skeptical movement in Italy and has had a great deal of influence here, too You do get a lot of people making claims though. Yeah, lots of people and and also from the media We get many requests to do investigation to the tests on television, too You see that you you're doing better in that respect than we are doing in this country, however now only recently We had this ADE 561 or whatever it was Dowsing rods we found it in the UK. They've done something about it but it's very difficult for us here in the United States and It seems that you cop is doing better than we are doing. I don't know what it is We have the support of many famous scientists Nobel Prize winners and of course journalists and even some Celebrity as you would say But we're constantly asked to be either on radio and television or interviewed for newspapers You know, I can analyze for you the for the million-dollar challenge now. Oh, we get the craziest people I mean not crazy people. I'm sorry. No, I shouldn't say that we get the craziest claims made by otherwise quite sane people Let's put it that way But the majority a good 85% of the claims that we get here for dowsing this business of Sticking your hands bobbing up and down and they say they can find oil and gold and missing children missing coon dogs Even they've got a specific dowsing rod that's for sale just for coon dogs If you lose your coon dog friends write to us and we'll send you this for $400 or whatever they charge for it And that's supposed to find your coon dog. Yeah, sure, but the dowsing claim is by far the most common one and this is because there's a good reason for that because Dowsers are largely self-deluded. They're not fakes. They're not pretending they have this power The idiomotor reaction and you can look that up on the J ref website by the way do take a look at it because it explains what the The idiomotor reaction it has nothing to do with idiots But the idiomotor reaction is a very strong reaction until you have experienced that You won't realize just how strong it is. What a psychological influence it is now You're a psychologist by trade profession that is Although you're you're not practicing it as a as a psychologist So you understand fully well what the idiomotor reaction is and I want people out there who hear this broadcast or view this video I should say to look up the idiomotor reaction in your dictionary and in Psychology textbooks and look it up on the James Randy educational foundation website as well We have a definition right there that explains it pretty well And it's mentioned many times in the annals of Swift our web page Now the idiomotor reaction is so subtle It's very convincing people are taken in by it and that's why there are so many people out there who honestly Believe they are self-deluded But they honestly believe that they can do this business with the sticker the pendulum or the coat hanger wires or whatever They say they can use to determine the sex of an unborn child for example And and find gold and oil and all the rest of the thing and missing children They they say they can do this sort of thing They believe they can't and they honestly do believe so they're self-deluded But that's as I say about 80 to 85 percent of the claims that we get over the years and we've had thousands of claims Of course, but second to that is healing or diagnostics They say that they can look at a person or they can Borrow a ring from the person or something and get vibration. They can tell what diseases that they're subject to and of course That's that's full of all kinds of interpretations, you know, you have a heart problem. You know, I never heard Oh, no, I mean a heart problems coming up So they they they adjust their their their prophecies you see and their diagnosis to these things and Then people say they can actually heal By concentrating on you or sending you with the right kind of letter having you hold an amulet or worse I'm big around your neck and in many cases these people are also self-deluded But what have they made your claims that you get in Italy? Well, these two as well, but also Anything from haunted houses poltergeist. Oh, yes People claiming strange for example things that you wouldn't even imagine It was a lady that claims she had the power to mummify eggs. Oh Yeah, I remember yes. Yes. How would you imagine to first of all, why would you want to mummify age? Unless you're an Egyptian and you're very religious. I don't know and you want to bring eggs with you Exactly, but still, you know, she came with his dried up eggs Open in addition. She said, you know, I have these energy coming out from the ends and this is what happens So I want you to study me and What we could do is was a double blind test. Of course We would you take ten dishes with ten eggs and then one they should give to the lady and she treates it like she does At her home and the other nine other just samples control samples that you give and you place them in two different rooms Because of course, she said, you know, we treated once the energy flows and changes all the other So two different rooms with the same conditions and temperatures and humidity and so on and in the end you come You call a an independent judge somebody who doesn't know anything about this to to say if they see any difference between What one of these is treated and the others are not so tell us if you see any difference And of course in the end all of the eggs are the same. They are all dried up Because this is what happens if you break an egg and if you leave it in a dish in a room Which is not too hot or too hot. So it's just a question of the hydration Yeah, and Still when you do this experiment, which is very easy in the end to understand and very demonstrative It does prove the point one way or the other What you would think so but this lady for example and most of the people that count was as well as those that come to you And I am sure they rationalize this and and in this case She said well now this proves that everybody has this power Of course, they're great at rationalizing Because they they usually are forced to rationalize they try to show it to somebody else and they give them the same reasons and they say ah But we have an answer for that. Yeah, even if before you ask them, you know to write down exactly if the conditions are perfect If there's something wrong, you don't do the test because otherwise, it's an excuse how true Massimo I want to thank you very much for your time. It's been a pleasure talking to you again And we'll I'll be over in Italy not too long from now as a matter of fact Looking forward to that and you will have the brass band to beat me at the airport, of course. Thank you muscle Thank you. Thank you so much. We thank you for watching this latest episode of James Randy speaks for more of James Randy and the Educational Foundation make sure you visit Randy org