 You know, I ain't seen much of it so far. It's pretty much been the brushwoods living room and then Logan and now this Other than that or what there was a fast in ride from a from a you All the way out. Yeah, no the all the Bobo ride shares, man apparently so Uber could operate from the airport to Brian's because that's not Austin. Is it? No, I guess Brian's technically an operate from the airport to Brian's they can operate from Brian's into the city Got it. Okay Which I have gotten ubers from Brian's to the airport, but not from the But the airport's technically in a city. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense actually not I think about it But Brian's gonna have an address. He's not technically inside the city limits. I think you can hail rides Yeah, I don't know. I don't know exactly what it was. It's like in LA Sometimes you can use the LA for your mailing address even though you're technically in LA County, not in LA City stuff like that Yeah, I don't know. I mean they are literally like a stone's throw from dripping spray. So like Venice Venice Beach people live in Venice They can put Venice, California on their mailing address even though. It's not actually a city It's postal system as weird. Oh, yeah, cuz like some people put like Brooklyn or Queens or yeah, right, right same kind of thing. Yeah Well, uh You know, I don't know fast and sorry, although I would like to reward the underground I would I think I need to do some delving into the the black market, you know Craigslist communities. Oh really? I want to reward the underground, you know, cuz I think that this is just such an I want to I want to a report from from deep ride hailing Outside I might I might actually have to do it. Maybe I'll maybe I'll interview some I'll interview some some off the record Illegal ride hailers. We're talking to a ride hailer. We'll call him Craig Yeah, Craigslist I got a little a little into that scene because There's there is a a fairly well-known podcast luminary Let's for the sake of this argument say he has no agenda Okay, I don't know who that would be He was giving Basically, it's led to a totally deregulated Limo system. Oh because you find people that you like and you literally just have this relationship With them where you say hey, I'll agree to pay you why if you just pick me up when I text you So all of this oh you need to have double complete background checks has let you a government-regulated total You know a no-holds-barred crab-ass black market of people trying to get everybody around Well, it's it's not that laws are bad But if laws aren't popular with the populace the populace always finds a way around those laws life Finds a way If that that's the most annoying line for that movie ever That and I spared no expense What how or why is it annoying because it's amazing Life finds a way while widen life find a way on Mars No, no, the point is that you can't restrict life that if humanity I mean like before the point of that story is that Humanity is trying to restrict. Yeah, I know it's one of those things you like to tell kids before they go to bed So they can wake up the world's gonna be awesome No, that's not the point of that monologue and the point of that monologue is you don't try to play God Don't try it. No, it's just what it says is you can come up with some pretty amazing creatures if you have enough If you have enough money to pour into it and willing to spend on the ice cream as well life finds a way Roger Crashes through boundaries violently if necessary Plus it's Jeff Goldblum, right Man Person on earth except for somebody that Jeff Goldblum stole their girlfriend in high school. I hate that monologue I don't hate it. It's just I don't it's just it's a I know it's just great trait. I Find it very trait. All right Your beard all you want I can I can buy by the way this argument is so much different when all I see is this Facebook snapchat You're talking so I can't connect with your face, but like I Definitely think that it is Misuse I will agree with you that people take it out of the original context and use it incorrectly as an empty platitude You know why they do that Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. You're only gonna inflate the argument Tom The best gift of all time, which is it wasn't that movie care the pivotal point where he started like really working out and like Tried to get a chiseled physique No, didn't he have or was that the fly fly? Yeah, fly was definitely Jeff getting into getting into shape is right around the time with life aquatic He was pretty buffed Well, that was like 10 years, but I don't think he's I Don't know. I think he always kind of had like like, you know Jeff Goldblum especially for somebody who's kind of known as the nerds nerd in like movies Has always kind of had like an athlete's build like even look at him in death wish Like he's kind of got like that like he's kind of like a swimmers kind of look there But like it's not like he's unathletic Let's see you have Goldblum death wish. He's got a great quote there that I can't repeat because it's horrible That's the Jeff Goldblum. I like to think of the one from 10 speed in brown shoe Popping up Ben Vereen to make him look tall Deep cut. Oh my yeah, how many Apple boxes Ben Vereen standing right? I Get the idea and put this back. I get the idea that Ben Vereen is actually holding Jeff Goldblum is actually holding Ben Vereen up With with his left arm. He's like just just stand on my stand on my hand back Yeah, it's just like some Cirque du Soleil, you know, man feet Telling you it has been for years since the 90s. It has been my litmus test for when we have achieved the pinnacle of Using the internet to distribute television is when you can get every episode of 10 speed and brown shoe available on demand Really? Yeah That is that the final the final test that is Yeah, can't even in 2017 Wow So, I don't know all this, you know, I know that the IPO for Wrist flicks has definitely taken off, but it doesn't have 10 speed and brown at the 10 speed and brown shoe test. Mr. Merritt Yeah, one of the problems is 10 speed and brown shoe is one of those weird shows where One entity owns the pilot and a different entity owns the rest of the series So I have never heard of pilot I've never heard of 10 speed and brown show until you literally mentioned it right now Oh, wow. No, I've been talking about it for decades. I've never heard about 10 speed and brown shoe. Yeah Well, that's why it's my litmus test. Yeah, because nobody knows it Apparently is not particularly well remembered because life finds a way Alrighty, let's get this let's get this tech show on the road. Shall we let's do it here We go Daily tech news show is powered by you to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Thursday March 9th 2017 I'm Tom Merritt Justin Robert young alongside it's Thursday It's normal for Justin to be here, but you're in Austin, Texas. Aren't you Justin joining the show live from the Nascent opening days of South by Southwest. I am here. Yes indeed joining you from Austin, Texas Now usually I'm at South by Southwest this year I'm not able to go But I did put my wife on a plane to South by Southwest so keep your eyes out for her and by put her on a plane I mean I turned over and said have a safe flight and stayed in bed. Yeah No, you didn't like drive her to LA accent like are you sure you have your knapsack? Oh Yeah, I walk her up now. Here she is No, it didn't need that in fact But yeah, so it's a bunch of South by Southwest stuff going on There will be a big diamond club meetup. We'll give you the details about that again later on, but it's Saturday evening For exchange Saturday evening 6 p.m. At the brew exchange 706 6th Street, but again, we can get to that plug later in the Yeah, yeah We're gonna break down WikiLeaks for you There's a little bit of news about it today, but just in case you've been wondering, okay I've been hearing bits and pieces. Do I need to worry? What's actually going on with that? Do I need to see vault one through six to understand understand seven? Yeah, I like the reboots that they got with JJ Abrams coming in on vault seven Let's start off with some other top stories. Oh Facebook I feel like Facebook is now just trolling Snapchat as they roll out bits of snapchats features to Instagram one day Facebook Messenger the next today Facebook's messenger day feature is rolling out worldwide on Android and iOS This is snapchat stories, but messenger calls it day instead of stories So you can add text you can do doodles you can pick overlays You can do facial filters on your photos and videos and messenger and then instead of just sending it to people you add It to your day. That's Facebook story where friends can view it for the next 24 hours after you post it in a way, this is kind of brilliant because for for so many a Chat has become its own social network and and I would not be shocked to see iOS add this in the coming you know months or year because a Group chat for friends and I think many people in this audience and certainly outside of it can understand this is The way that you keep in contact with people near and far and often times you don't read everything It is just this constant dialogue that is happening So an easy way to summarize the best beats of it I think will only become more necessary sure this is a snapchat clone But I don't think that this is necessarily as egregious as let's say Instagram just adding stories I think a colleague at stories not even yeah, yeah, exactly I think that is them saying okay This is eating a little bit of our lunch Let's make sure that we can take this and make it a way that people can interact on our platform in the same way That they killed vine but this idea of Summarizing what has happened so you can just add a glance see an animated version of the last 24 hours of your group chat I think he's kind of inspired. Yeah, I I agree I it's almost they call it table stakes a lot these days when there's a feature that you kind of have to have and I feel like this sort of thing snapchat to their credit made this table stakes They made this the kind of feature that every messenger wants to have be interested to see if WhatsApp Would add something like this. What's up, of course also owned by Facebook, but I was listening to some kind of Discussion that Emma Watson was doing on one of her junkets for Beauty and the Beast and she mentioned When she was asked if she keeps in touch with people that from the Harry Potter movies That she has a WhatsApp group that she created for all of them and that just kind of struck me You know it's like oh that is the thing you do now when you want to keep in touch with people You're not around as much anymore Absolutely, if anything I would be curious to see if snapchat goes the other way and says hey people want to communicate in groups And they don't want to have to every single time add You know that oh well this snap is going to go to XYZ people and sure you can prioritize it by popularity But why not just have the you know best friends It is always goes to my best friends and have a way that you can communicate directly with larger groups of people Yeah, that's an interesting thought Wednesday uber received a permit to test autonomous cars in California. Oh, hey look $150 Uber also announced Wednesday that it will prohibit the use of its grayball technology against Regulators grayball is meant to block people attempting to game the uber system But had been used to block official Investigations into the company Tom uber on the road to redemption I mean they're trying as fast as they get accused of things to solve those things So yeah Getting back there saying okay fine. We'll we'll get a permit because we we do Have our headquarters in California be nice to test our autonomous cars there. Yes, we were wrong Yeah, it felt kind of snarky for them to use gray base Against investigators because what it felt like they were trying to say was hey we've got the system to stop people from gaming us and Investigators are gaming us. They don't really want to do a ride. They want to gotcha us And so they're violating our terms of service We're gonna gray ball them and if you don't get it like black ball is to block someone gray ball says I'm gonna stop you from using the service We're going to make it look like there are cars there when there aren't et cetera et cetera Yeah, this that was wrong of them. They know it and they fixed it question if this gray ball story had not come amongst this other maelstrom of you know Rank the scandals however you want in terms of how important they are to you or how much you assume that they are important to the company But if this had not been at the tail of all these scandals would uber have even addressed this gray ball thing I Don't feel like they would have the old uber the uber that I grew up with Would have just laughed it off right and like ha ha good luck capas come and get us But this is a kinder gentler uber now they are reformed they are they are they are trying to play ball suddenly because The the straw that broke the camel's back came. I'm not even sure which straw it was but somewhere in that flurry of straws ubers camel broke Yeah, and to paraphrase Kanye West and the best tweet that I've seen in the last year For everybody that tried to gray ball me you forgot about two things What in uber's case what would those two things be wonder just go to the next story writers has seen communications about a WhatsApp project that would allow businesses to talk directly to whatsapp users for a fee before you get your spam panties in a bunch We're not talking about spamming people a small number of companies from why combinators incubator are taking part in the test and What's that is also surveying users about how they would want to use such a program So this is charging businesses for special features that they would use to message their existing customers You'd have to approve it from what it sounds like you wouldn't just get spammed from somebody you'd have to Allow someone to message you just like you Have to right now for any whatsapp, but here's some examples Calar. I love this example Calar C-O-W-L-A-R is a startup from Y Combinator participating in the test Calar makes collars for dairy cows. Oh Get it They want to use the system to send alerts from the cow collars directly to farmers using WhatsApp So if if the cowler notices some problem with the cow right now It it does create logs, but they could send use WhatsApp to send an alert Anyway, big dairy markets India Brazil Pakistan are also big markets for WhatsApp. So this makes sense This is kind of brilliant Things here. Yeah, first of all and also that there's there's something really You know, this is one of those like kind of tech does good kind of stories because WhatsApp Obviously is something that is very very very popular in some of the poorer areas of the world up to and including India Brazil and Pakistan not to say that all India Brazil and Pakistan is poor But there are poor elements of it. What's up is a service that is tailored to and has been you know Positioned as a place that does not want to constantly sell you something The idea that chat as a service, you know continues to live and thrive is something that I find really really interesting And and this is what's apps big play for monetization, right? Yeah What what they want is to figure out how to make money without charging you if you don't remember What's app used to charge you 99 cents a year and they almost never charge people They would forgive it or do special promotions You could entirely avoid that 99 cents a year but they got rid of that a while ago and they really haven't replaced it entirely yet and Facebook thankfully has got enough deep pockets that they can play for time, but this this if it works Would be the way that they would make money well and You know the worry with WhatsApp after the Facebook acquisition is that just you are going to make money for Facebook? The way that Facebook makes money on everything which is using your data and analytics and your behavior to track you and sell you ads And I think that what's that understand? Yeah, they can't just load everything up with ads Immediately, so they got to find other revenue streams. This is a smart way to do it I however don't think that it will be able to stem the inevitable What's that will eventually become the Facebook ad platform that was fated and the first hint of Unsolicited messages, I will change my tune But right now I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that everything they're talking about Says they don't want to give you unsolicited and that that's the difference between spam and just a commercial message from someone you do business sweet summer child Scientists at IBM have successfully stored one bit of data on a single atom of the element home you an Average hard drive uses around a hundred thousand atoms to store a single bit the researchers pass an electrical current through a Homium atom to flip its north and south poles the pole stay flipped and can be measured to read data Now this is one of those stories where we are far from practical application, but the idea that you could increase storage by a hundred thousand times Because you can use atoms to store the bits is incredibly appealing, right? We kind of reached this Processor speed debate about how fast can we really increase processor speed? How fast can we multiply the number of transistors? So the exciting area is storage because if you know and bandwidth But if we want to be tossing around all these 4k and someday 8k videos We're gonna need much bigger hard drives and this points away Granted maybe 10 years down the road, but a way that that can be achieved That there is a possible path to something that is exponentially greater than the reality that we know now when we hit the atom limit Though we're like, oh man, I wish I could store more than one bit on an atom Can I store a bit on an electron? Can I can I do some fermion storage? I mean why not right? You know We're in a bold beautiful world All right, Google made several announcements at its cloud next conference in San Francisco I'll run through all four of them and then we can pick which ones we find most significant They had already announced this 4k touchscreen 55 inch 4k touchscreen, but it's gonna sell for five thousand dollars sometime this May That's the one called jam board because he jam your ideas up on the board Third-party add-ons are coming to Gmail Now you might say well, I've already got third-party atoms, but you have them as browser extensions These would be in Gmail so you'd be able to get them across all your apps No matter what browser you're using to look at Gmail It is gonna be focused on enterprise customers though, and it will not be an open marketplace. So Think invoicing more than boomerang if Unfortunately, maybe Enterprise focused updates to Google Drive like team drives with better management of sharing So like if someone quits your team their files don't go with them You can actually centralize them a vault for administrators Migration services from app bridge which Google has acquired and early adopters Will get a drive file stream early adopters is actually a Google program Not just early doctors who choose to do it drive file stream Tries to choose the files. It knows you'll need to be synced to your drive for offline access So if you only have 10 gigabytes available for Google Drive It'll fill that with the files that thinks you're most gonna need and keep the rest in the cloud And Google Hangouts chat is Differencing itself from Google's alo messaging app by becoming a business-oriented slack competitor Basically, this adds a load of new features to group chats in Hangouts including threaded message and integration with Google Docs and sheets search rooms Appscripts for bots and bot integration hear that girl bot integration with Hangouts Google meet video conferencing integration It comes first to businesses in Google's early adopter program again And it's unclear who's gonna get it after that whether it's just gonna be for Google apps sweet or whether it'll come to all of us Where do you want to start with this one Tom? What do you find the most interesting I feel like the slack competitor is the biggest biggest one here because Even if it doesn't come to all of us, it's free. It's something that's just available. They're not charging for it at this point Anyway, that's a big Competition for slack which makes you not only download something whereas pretty much everybody's already in Gmail in some way or another, right? And they've got Hangouts, but also if you really need to use it in your business, you're gonna have to pay for it there's a free tier of course, but Google can compete that way and say oh if you're already paying for For Google suite you're in you don't have to pay extra for this They could also make it available to everybody for free and just all of us be using it already, right? And I think that's I think that's pretty genius because it also solves the other problem because we were all out here going Well, wait a minute. What's the difference between sending a message to someone on hangout messenger? Which is different from hangout video and it makes my head hurt and now there's alo alo is your SMS replacement Yeah, so to speak it's your messenger app and Hangouts is your group chat. It's your slack. I still don't think that that's clear And and I almost wonder for Google Hangouts whether or not that has just always been This wayward product that has been pushed hither and non either it is You know basically the closest that they've gotten to an effective YouTube live Platform or is it business chat or is it just a way that you can do video messaging like a Skype replacement? It's always been so good that it can play in all these different playgrounds and yet It has never been good enough that apparently Google just wants to say no This isn't something that we're going to plug in other places. This is Google Hangouts Respect it and it will find its own audience It's always needed to plug in to be at Google Plus or YouTube or now this business vertical as it tries to take on slack I almost wonder whether or not there is always going to be this question mark and beyond that Why will businesses want to do the very very painful Migration of people who are not tech savvy to a Google Enterprise platform when Google has Repeatedly shown that they will pull the plug on Projects that they do not feel are catching traction in a moment's notice like that that to me is the biggest death knell for this I think what Google would say is well in the enterprise. We don't do that Yes We have a bad reputation because we had to spend years cleaning up years of experiments in the public area But when you pay us as an enterprise company, we don't yank those features away And we have a service level agreement. We have support and all these things and we are right in there with Microsoft as An enterprise provider by the way Microsoft has their own slack competitor, right? So this is the thing you do I I Think that that means I don't know that that changes what you're saying though I think there still is a lot of perception that maybe Google pulls stuff, but I also think this is meant To appeal to the people already Paying for Google suite or thinking of paying for Google suite And that's a different proposition than just trying to capture the general imagination out there But there's no reason why they can't compete for slack, right? I feel like if there was a Google backed company or hangout spun out and now it was a Alphabet company and it was now no longer it was of course would always work with Google and the backbone was going to be fed by Google But now it was its own company that was going to provide Video conferencing and the way that they would make money is this business The entrepreneur your vertical that slack has done so well because they've tapped into the idea that hey You don't have to be a gigantic business to get involved with these business solutions We are in a softer market where any three people can use and be bettered by these solutions and Google hangout seems like it could be perfectly focused for that and yet Google has never really been able to strike that that perfect frequency to I think best take advantage of its technology Yeah, there's a couple of of perception problems that they're running into one of them You know we're talking about which is thinking of Google as a legit enterprise provider Which a lot of people do but there's still a perception that they're not by a lot of folks, but the other is This hangout confusion. I wonder how much of what you're saying Isn't caused by using hangouts if we just change the names to you know Google Slack and we know obviously they can't call it that but But but but Google has a different name for its slack competitor and it has a different name for its video conferencing and Allow is its messaging and messenger on Android is its text messaging Do we say oh well this all just makes sense Is it the fact that hangouts is still a word floating out there? It shouldn't be hangouts on air It should be YouTube on there. It shouldn't be hangouts. It should be Google group chat It shouldn't be hangouts. It should be just Google meet No, but hangouts has survived for a reason when hangouts was a feature in Google Plus You looked at Google Plus and you said this might not live But hangouts is cool when when hangouts was the part of YouTube live Nobody thinks that YouTube has a great way of doing live But everybody likes the fact that there is an automatic camera switching element to hangouts Hangouts is the product and I understand that they're always trying to find it But let me posit this theory Tom hangouts finds a way Let it go To get all the tech headlines every day in less than 10 minutes in fact around five minutes You can subscribe to daily tech headlines comm Get it as a podcast or if you're like, I don't want another podcast You can get it on your Amazon echo and just say hey add the daily tech headlines skill And it'll be part of your flash briefing or you can get it on the anchor dot FM app Where you can actually skip through the things and we take calls from people on there anchor dot FM They're all different ways to get the headlines at daily tech headlines comm and that's a look at our top stories All right The news today about WikiLeaks is that the actual code of the CIA hacking tools has been offered to tech companies if you recall The Tars and the zips and the files were not part of vault seven that was leaked on Tuesday And a lot of stuff was redacted from these documents But Julian Assange said Thursday that WikiLeaks would provide additional technical details Exclusively to tech companies affected by the exploits in order for them to develop fixes And to check in on where people are Wednesday evening Google said it believes it has already protected Android and Chrome from many of the exploits That's not all of the exploits Apple previously made a similar statement many not all Linux Foundation just sort of made a statement that open source rapidly issues patches and continuously is made more secure Kind of made me feel like Linux Foundation doesn't know if all of these are patched or not But feels like there's a good chance they are because they have such a wide-ranging community Microsoft and Samsung last thing they said is they're looking into the documents, so we don't know there But if you're a little confused by all of this I'm gonna break it down for the people Justin break it down. What are we want to tell them what happened? So Tuesday 8,761 documents no code base no IP address is called vault seven Appears to have been taken on In February or March of 2016 in fact Bruce Schneier pegs it as a couple of years old because of references to Komodo WikiLeaks says the documents range from 2013 to 2016, but most of the documents are old Bruce Schneier and cybersecurity expert James Lewis think it was probably given to WikiLeaks by an outsider and Reuters says to government officials off the record anonymous told them Well, not off the record. I guess on the record, but anonymous told them that the CIA has been aware of this leak since the end of last year and Is investigating contractors New York Times has a source that says a server outside The CIA that was managed by a contractor is the likely source of the leak So in other words the CIA didn't get hacked somehow. It sounds like these documents were stored somewhere less secure and Then were given by someone who shouldn't have given them to WikiLeaks What's in there are exploits for smartphones TVs computers routers, etc Some descriptions of a program called umbridge that tried to maintain a technique a techniques to misdirect attribution So use a consistent suite of malware that all appeared to come from somewhere else besides the United States And it shows that the CIA hordes vulnerabilities and uses them for offensive purposes despite CIA assurances that it was participating in the vulnerabilities equities process to work with companies to Responsibly disclose vulnerabilities that the CIA didn't need if these are years old a lot of these probably weren't needed anymore In fact, Wired had an interview with Michael Daniel who was at the time special advisor to the president on cybersecurity saying the vast majority Of exploits are disclosed. So Justin Does this all bother you? Because it doesn't look like anything illegal was going on based on these leaks It seems like the leaks aren't really relevant They're not current tools their older tools and all it shows is that the CIA big surprise May not have been handing over exploits to tech companies to fix as fast as they claimed All right Number one there are two also big political things that you guys might have heard or listeners to the show might have heard one of the tools that were used or sorry one of the revelations in the vault seven dumps were that the CIA Often stores and uses exploits that have been used by other nations So as a way to Maybe obfuscate what the work that they are doing to pawn it off to either third party or foreign national governments That's the umbridge. That's the umbridge technique and most security professionals look at it and say That's a probably a good cover to keep people from figuring out. It's the CIA But no security researcher would look at that technique and attribute it attribute it to other places right but that is something that that has been attributed to it and Apparently their hack to get into Samsung smart TVs is called the weeping angels Which I'm just going to go ahead and exclusively report is indeed a dr. Who reference Beyond that Is this important should you be worried the fact that the CIA is doing this? You know any logical thought process should probably lead you To the fact that this is something that they are working on and we hope that they are working on because they are you know a Element of our government that should be using the full extent of a cyber security to get their man However, let me ask you this time Should there be more transparency In their tools should they be more forthcoming? Especially considering it seems like if this is three-year-old stuff that's making its way out into the public sphere Should the CIA Basically own these stories and say that yeah, these are exploits that we use and tech companies should patch them up because if we know them There's a good likelihood that other people know them or that's where we got them in the first place I mean yeah, it boils down to the classic case of where is the line Between safeguarding the public's property in this case our devices and safeguarding the public's Safety from attack which is going after the bad guys and if you're in law enforcement If you're in the cia You always want that line to be as close to letting you do whatever you need to get a bad guy as possible And you're going to push that line and you should that's your job If you're a device maker, you're going to always be for having that line be as close to fixing everything as soon as it's known Because you want to protect your customers and you should Push for that that's your job. So it's up to the rest of us to come up with A line that's reasonable that says well, I know you're not going to get as much power as you want but guess what too much power is a bad thing and There's a law of diminishing returns where you're not really going to catch a bad guy faster because of this So I know we can't know that but let's move the line over here and guess what device makers. Yes You want to fix everything as soon as possible? but law enforcement can get some benefit About being able to use these things. So let's move your line over we could go all day talking about where that line is going to be The there's a process for that called the vulnerabilities equities process and if you look into that It details a very robust internal discussion that is supposed to happen in the nsa in the cia in the fbi about Whether anyone needs this vulnerability still the idea the way it's described is you have to prove to me that you still need this to To to apply to a case. Otherwise, I'm going to hand it over to the device maker to fix Yeah, the problem with it is and you nailed it. There is no transparency. We don't know. We can't see those conversations We don't know that they're happening and so I don't know if there needs to be some partnership closer with the companies that make the devices to say Hey, we're gonna, you know, bring you in a certain number of people limited under nda to participate in this So that you can see it and then give some oversight because you can't just make all of these Totally transparent or the people you're trying to use these against will know you have them and defend against them I mean and and this is a element of broken trust that was laid bare during the snowden leaks and project prism of the the device makers and service Offers including all the ones that we use every single day that could not even acknowledge that they were part of these programs because on on, you know a penalty of perjury because this is National security they can't have an honest dialogue with their consumers many of whom pay some of whom use a free service And that's where I think we are rapidly getting to a point where now for our national security apparatuses More so in 2017 than even when snowden first leaked all that information It's now probably beneficial for them to have more of an open communication Not only between these companies but also with the public and freeing up these companies That if you don't want the cia to say yeah, these are vulnerabilities that we're patching up At least let the companies say these are vulnerabilities that we are patching up because If nobody is saying it and now this is out here in the public I don't know who that serves Like I honestly don't think that it really I don't think it serves law enforcement I don't think it serves the the companies and their trust with consumers And these are only going to get more complex the more we use all these services atl John boy Nails it in the chair room. He says define bad guy. That's the issue right if we all trusted Like you said Justin that bad guy only meant people we all think are bad and it was never going to be misused Then we wouldn't have a problem. We'd say yeah, take these exploits run with them You know nail those folks then hand them over to be fixed. It's all about Who's the bad guy? Are you targeting the right people and Did you actually hand it over because some of these some of these exploits in here are old now also many of them Seem to have been fixed at least according to apple and google Uh, which implies that these are things that you know, let's not forget the cia acquired these in most cases They didn't develop them themselves. So it's not impossible for apple and google to find them out themselves as well This is something that has been a part of The the dialogue about stories like this since the first Chelsea manning wiki leaks kerfuffle oh so many years ago The problem in these situations is over classification as Uh, you know not releasable when everything is a state secret Than nothing or fewer than should be is a state secret If a lot of this stuff is three years old Then it needs to be out in the public. You need to disclose it It makes the the the security and and the law enforcement tools that are needed and necessary safer If they are not possibly also A part of some server that a contractor has access to and can dump off to the equidorean embassy in in london So julian asange can can parrot it off to the world with his monge coffee cup If there if there was trust you could imagine a world where a bug bounty program Would take an exploit hand it off To an intelligence agency. So here go use this we're going to fix it by this date Yeah You know, but that's never going to happen because that trust is so far broken But for many reasons I mean, but there has to be a better There has to be a better way and and and and in instances with government and law enforcement trust is never fully broken It can always be repaired because it's always going to be a part of our life There just needs to be a better good faith effort and until there is They're just going to have situations like this where they're backpedaling and saying no, but this is old and no But this is a lot of this is already fixed Guess what? It's a scandal on your hands that now leads The bad guys the dreaded bad guys closer to what kind of tools you were using before and and now You know, now things are worse off than they would be otherwise My my opinion my personal opinion on this is I want my properly acting law enforcement agencies to go after But the the folks who are bad, however they can and that includes taking advantage of exploits, but I also Want the device makers who make the devices I use to know about and fix things as fast as possible That sounds like those are in contradiction, but they don't have to be if you actually get people working Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com got a few emails to get at before we're out of here Um First one comes from Joe Who says first love your show second? I just wanted to weigh in on the whole arm super efficiency bit He says as a former hardware geek turned family man Yeah, just no time to stay on top of the latest tech like I used to hence my love for your show I couldn't figure out how to accurately write to you that arm isn't necessarily more efficient Just different in how it executes instructions So for that I went to the web and read this article that compares the two and basically ends with saying this Based on this study We consider arm mips and x86 processors simply as engineering design points optimized for different Levels of performance. There's nothing fundamentally more energy efficient in one isa class versus another In the concluding paragraph of the report the author's right It appears the decades of hardware and compiler research has enabled Efficient handling of both risk and sysk ices and both are equally positioned for the coming years of energy constrained Innovation Uh, he also read an article on tom's hardware that compared one of the more efficient x86 chips adam to an arm chip in a chromebook And all of this is a way of joe pointing out that we may have made it sound Like arm was the only way to get an efficient chip in a server when we were talking about microsoft Testing arm ships that run its windows server and we shouldn't have led you to that if that's what you thought we sort of Forget that x86 Makes that that intel makes adam processors because they just aren't used as often but we did mention that intel is part of that and joe very rightly points out like hey Arm isn't the only energy efficient processor out there. It may be more dominant right now at that particular size But it is not the only game in town, but it ain't the only game in town. Thank you joe for that. Appreciate it Frederick wrote in to let us know that the persistent menus we talked about on saturday have been available in facebook messenger for a while He writes What changed is the placement and used to be accessed via a hamburger menu in the corner of the chat screen Now it appears already expanded under the text entry prompt and can in fact entirely replace Any text entry though why a bot would want to do that is beyond me and also supports up to three levels of submenu Hopefully that makes more sense now Love the show and your thoughtful and well-informed views make you the michael crancy of tech news That is frederick the ebay engineer from sunny san josey. Thank you for the clarification frederick And thank you for making me look up michael krasny The american broadcaster who is the host and senior editor of kq eds award-winning forum. That is a lovely comparison. Thank you freder I'm humbled by that and yeah, and I did not realize that those menus were available The big changes of course that they automatically show up Finally Scott in carry north carolina says I've listened to the recent discussion about mesh routers with interest and wanted to provide folks with my experience My parents have a house in south carolina that was built about a hundred years ago It's single story walls include mostly Plaster over masonry about 12 inches thick They have long had issues with wi-fi and he talks about how they they used a range extender in the past So in order to get any connectivity to his mother's study at the other end of the house because the Modem is coming in at one end of the house. They had to put that range extender in last year I bought a three pack of aero routers for them and installed them It soon became clear to me that in order for the routers to set up their mesh network I'd have to put a unit in almost every room in the house Which was not feasible ended up using power line networking to connect the routers And now my parents are happy and I can sit on their back porch with my laptop and read my email when I visit them I've been listening to the podcast for about a year and started the patreon thing a couple months ago Thanks for the great info. Well, thank you scott. Uh, this goes to show that Yes, there are limits with these mesh routers, uh, aero and others where they have to be in line of sight Of each other now you can have certain amount of walls between them I I have one downstairs and it goes through the floor up to the next one above it But I had to move that one pretty close to make that happen So if you got 12 inch thick walls That's going to cause a problem and maybe power line Networking is your fix like it was for scott That's just it. You know, you might have to wind up doing the simplest possible solution, which is just run a wire Well, power line networking doesn't need a wire. You just plug it in and it uses your power lines for it Oh, but the point is not there's not one situation That works for everybody, right? It all depends on what you got going on absolutely Thank you. Justin robert young of course for joining us Let folks know what's going on including reminding them about the meetup on saturday night Absolutely, there will be a live night attack podcast this saturday at the brew exchange in austin texas That is going to be at 6 p.m. At 706 6th street a lot of sixes involved in this show Again me and brian brushwood providing our comedy stylings as well as musical acts including the posse and posse and Dual core it is going to be an absolute blast This is the first time we've ever done anything in the late afternoon evening That involved a a live show. We're gonna have uh just a great time So I would love to see any dts folks that are local to the austin area Don't you don't I know if you're local to austin you don't have to even go to south by right Just come on in park on the outskirts get a fasten or a ride austin over there to the brew exchange Have a great time. We are going to absolutely The uh the be enjoying uh everybody's company Hey, thanks to folks who give a little value back for the value They get from the show like stan and richard and andy gary at patreon.com slash dts That is the only way we make the show happen. So big thanks to everybody who supports the show I just posted if you're at the five dollar a month That's 25 cents a show if you're at the five dollar a month level you get an exclusive post that will get emailed to you as well With the recap of the news but also an exclusive column My column this week is two parts one is a breakdown of wiki leaks and even more detail than we went today but also just this idea that the internet isn't new anymore and those of us who've been around on it since the 90s The way things works back then don't work anymore And I think that explains some of the issues that are going on online But if you want more about that patreon.com slash dts Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with allison chariden who's going to share her experience As 30 years as a female engineer talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this brover Boom voice made it all the way into the show Yeah, dude, you were uh, I think you were on borrowed time. Jesus. It started to fade there for a second You're not coming to south by I don't think that you'd be able to survive the the the the the the whiskey and bar dwelling That comes along with that process No, you got to train for that Yeah, no you're your voice. What what what is wrecked your voice? Oh, it's just a cold Uh, are you hiding something tom? I can't hear me We can hear it. Oh, no, no, no, no Let's have rumors get started About tom's cold. Wait god damn. Why are you starting a room? Yeah, what what's wrong tom? What's wrong? Jesus? Yeah What are you hiding? Why what I'm sorry No, I just gotta come all right How much is everything in your room? Uh, is anything in your room rather natural light or is it all just a lamp? Oh, no, it's all natural light windows. It's all natural. I don't have a lamp on There is one the opposite like one element As soon as you went to southern california your your your background just became so much better lit It's because there's a window behind me. So Cal son on the side of the front. It's a so cal sun 300 miles totally shifts where the sun enters a building We don't have that big marine layer hanging over you all the time like you did in your old neighborhood. Yeah, no marines Like here. Well, no, that's indian. If you can't pedal you have more marines down there Yeah, although you probably have you're closer to space marines being in in los angeles. Sure space cadets. Definitely Top of the title heap is uber's camel broke uber's camel broke Well, no, but this is them putting their cable back together again, right? Like this is yes, that's true It's a joke. It's a joke camo is a horse built by committee. All right, um, followed up with uber on the road to redemption Followed up by what's moo Uh, ibeam finds data in the new home How? Homemium homemium homemium Just fun to say talent beats are coming Google trying to pick up the slack uber uber suffering from gray ball That sounds like a thing you need to see a specialist for I believe that's the intention. Yeah, what's that popular with? Europe and cows Homemium pathetic state. Oh, oh, I get it like homey apathic. Yeah I kind of like a google google picks up the slack is uh, although I who knows how many other times you're gonna be able to replace The the google with that title considering how many microsoft picks up the slack exactly facebook picks up the slack. Yeah Uh, you google is a yanking do yanking doodle brandy. C. I. S. Some bad umbridge Oh bad umbridge get it. That's good um That one's pretty to google Umbridge harry potter reference like if we almost definitely had a a a doctor who reference is it out of The realm of possibility that umbridge is a harry potter reference It I mean it's spelled like taking umbridge, right? Not delores. I didn't know the delores like a delores umbridge um But I like it. I like that if it's in the course I could see somebody kind of tweaking it like that as a private joke um But there's nothing wrong. Maybe it's not spelled umbridge. No. No. No. No. Yeah. No umbridge is is b. R. I. D. D. For the uh for the and the c. I. A. One is a g. E. Okay good. Um, so what do you think? Uh Google so I can I like linking to the digital ocean Hmm I do like the umbridge one That's me bad like which one bad umbridge. Yeah Oh like like bad ombres Yeah, yeah CAA has some bad umbridge. Ah, that's it That's a that's a bridge too. That's a It's um too far. That's yeah, it's uh, it's a It's a long way From uh from super clear I kind of feel like google trying to pick up the slack I'll be sure listen like everyone's gonna rip off slack But you might as well at some point there was a show That should have been titled a show without merit, right? Like and right right the very first time that we ever use that On buzz out loud. Yeah That was that was funny Hey, can I ask something that's just a little uh totally off topic Calling something the tits super old Or super hip or both? I think it's super old It sounds like something So something from like the early 2000s Oh, because I would have thought I would have went even older I would have thought that it sounded like 70s or 80s or something like Like something like dazed and confused ask I feel like the first time I ever heard it was in the 80s Yeah I definitely felt like it could make a comeback than me when I was a kid was saying Yeah Uh, well because I called Logan the tits and people are like Like reacting to it like like it was like some like like the phrase. I thought the phrase was understood to be Like oh, I liked this thing Well, there's uh Maybe it's not made a comeback then Well, why don't we look up that particular phrase? On urban dictionary Isn't there any is there any other day? I'll see the cipher Man, there is kind of a rollback on this Logan movie people people are like very much enjoying not liking Nobody was saying something Yeah, that's that's just our culture of hate Like oh a bunch of people like something i'm going to enjoy hating it you want to know what I think it is I think It's it's that it has gotten such a uh an endorsement from people with kids that I think that there is a youth or non kids Like element that's like it makes sense. Yeah That's like, oh, no. Well, I didn't didn't do anything for me I'm your old daughter Yeah But you might That and I was the rest of my sentence was going to be a spoiler that I won't say it So you're welcome You're welcome for nothing spoiled. I will I will yeah, please thank me for that's funny You owe me exactly I can't spoil x-men apocalypse, which I saw on the plane, which was It looked really bad, but I didn't I had no Is it bad? It's like is it is it bad like the plot doesn't make sense or is it just like It's bad like It's kind of the worst of all Super hero movies, right? It's almost a parody of superhero movie over sprawl Where they do everything. Let's try to jam a bunch of characters in that uh our References to comic book characters, but now we're going to just jam new actors in there and act like you care about them Let's totally gratuitously tack in this like Emotional a subplot for an already established character so we can make you care about them again So they can change directions for the third time in this franchise It's got a little bit of a problem of batman versus superman where it's trying to be too many movies well, it's batman versus Batman versus superman is also nihilistically stupid and Is trying to pretend like it's the most I actually thought I could have enjoyed one of the movies in batman versus superman Well, you know the the thing with batman superman. This is my problem is that They made that movie As a way to explain all their upcoming releases. So it it's It's more of a it's more of a corporate attempt. You're saying it's a big sizzle reel Yeah, basically like this this stuff is all gonna happen So what you know, this is just going to give you a taste of what what what you know is going to happen Is which is going to be like a justice league? Movie when we had the wonder woman So what they do is they try to shoehorn all these elements. So you get excited without You know understanding that you're not excited about the movie. You're currently sitting through But aside from wonder woman who is and now we're just I don't know they tease the flash They know that's aside from wonder woman aside from wonder woman everything literally comes in an attachment To an email. Yes, that's literally it's it's one Of the dumbest six minute sequences movie history where they're just like, okay, no literally Wonder woman's gonna start opening email attachments Uh, like it's its own parody like man, you're gonna be excited to see these next four films Because of this email with all the excitement of an email. I'll be honest though That was the only scene I wanted to see again Afterwards because I wanted to read all the details they had Um Sent it to me as an email so that I could peruse them at my leisure Do you think got their logos from the stock? uh Art that came in lex corpse personal email system Uh that generated those thumbnails. I like that as a backstory I also that also that movie had horrible writing like whoever scripted It's it's just like the dialogue isn't like I mean, it's a superhero movie But even beyond that it's like really bad. It's just like there are elements of batman care of batman's Um behavior that is totally at odds with you know, what people know of what batman is right Batman and batman versus superman is kind of a long head. It's like he's just very vindictive It doesn't think anything through he goes straight on emotion and it's just like no wait the batman We've been presented as he's very calculating cold detached person Now we have this over emotional You know a frat guy who I guess he lives in a burnt out mansion I don't know because his house looks like and he's also supposed to be old But he's not really all that old like, you know, he he is kind of uh, that's like some ben aflux self hatred right there They took they took frank millers They took frank millers approach to batman And then they tried to marry it with the stuff you already like they already had for batman and it just doesn't work Well, I mean, but also the the fact of the matter is is the movie fails Uh on superman. They never they've never been able to really crack superman. It's fairly obvious that zack snider Wants to push this very detached almost like Teenage melodramatic like what is the world going to push this on me man kind of version of the character which While certainly a departure Is not what anybody finds interesting about superman, right? Like well, that's a problem Superman can be one of the most compelling Characters and they showed that with their first superman movie with christopher reeve because they kind of gave that twist where he felt like he was so So you was so trapped by the need to not constantly be superman But he needed to be clark hand at the same time and he felt but but there wasn't that play it was just like You know, both basically both people had mother issues of some some type or another like it was just really Got it. We got it at the end. Yeah, we understood. Yeah, they have mom issues. Oh Jesus Yeah, it was I mean number one It might be the movie that I like the least that I've talked about the most Like it is it is it is a movie that I constantly wind up getting into conversations about and To the point where I feel like I unironically kind of like it because I've talked about how terrible it is so much Like now it is just filled a part of my life that uh, I don't think I'm ever going to go back From you know, it's weird ice. Oh, sorry. No, no, that's okay. I I was just gonna say I was gonna repeat myself So I don't don't feel too bad I think there's two maybe three movies in there that I would like If they were possibly all right, so so so so open up that like that that idea Well, what are the movies that you that you would have liked to live on itself? There's a batman movie Okay, I'm not I'm not I'm not Addicting any of the criticisms you gave of batman and that performance those would all need to be fixed But a batman movie about his struggle and like maybe he's really old right and and maybe he's you know He's there there's they set up a really interesting batman movie of him You know long into his life, you know still dealing with this and and maybe maybe he's mad at the populace Etc. Etc. Etc. You could go somewhere with that. So so so I'm interested in seeing that movie The batman has to reconcile with his own behavior because he's taken to branding child molesters and Like okay, and at some point he has to realize that that behavior is you obviously know the movie way better than I do So yeah, no that definitely happens He burns he burns a child molester with a batarang and and apparently that's a pattern of behavior That he is now doing regular batman and counting and that's what you know That's totally taken from the frank miller dark night series except that frank miller's thing was more of a More of a cynical play and kind of the at least the first one On the cynical play of kind of the 80s Reagan Miller is an intensely nihilistic writer You know a bleak view of the world He's almost I mean I guess in many cases is a right wing reactionary kind of guy I mean it's his his books all devolve devolve into Like a nihilistic, but also just like over-the-top violence But it's it's it's hard to call him right wing when in his you know greatest work of batman You know the the dark night returns it involves ronald reagan staying as permanent president so like a drawing like left and right is kind of A hard thing for him, but certainly a very very dark nihilistic if if the the label that I would probably put almost more on that is is You know darkly misogynistic, you know If there's if there's one thing that you see repeatedly in his work is that you know the the the one saving grace is batman a dark tortured Nihilistic person who punches harder than the other people and breaks the rules that that uh the villainous society has Set up and now there's going to be somebody dark enough to break them for the greater good Uh You know in a lot of ways there's kind of there's some similarities between frank miller and erin sorkin You know really just Characters to wear suits and and you know his punching his monologues You know, it's very much of the like, you know, I have to do this because society is just so oblivious or just intentionally you know A tunnel visioned about certain things and how like, you know, you just can't let the joker get away all the time You finally have to get rid of them. I mean they eventually do No spoilers, but uh I don't know. It's just the thing is it wouldn't it's doesn't really make for an entertaining movie Like overall, I was just not entertained And that's and that's why I still think the avengers is still the avengers as well as guardians of the galaxy They're still my two top faves because they're fun you go in and you come out smiling like hey, that was a good time It was a good ride See the Hulk smash things you see explosions Sure, yeah To be honest the further I get away from it especially because the two movies mirror each other so closely The more I appreciate civil war civil war is is I think a If you want to do a larger pathos You know like what does it mean to be a superhero sins of the past kind of story Uh, how far does friendship extend? You know, there's there's you know There's a lot of good material. It's to be honest. I think it would be better as a tv series than Uh episodic movie blockbuster every summer Well, I mean the problem with civil war is that like, you know, I remember walking into civil war I said I had a 10 p.m. Show 7 p.m. Show was letting out as I was getting in for the 10 p.m. Show, right? And I remember feeling like oh wow nobody seems to be smiling walking out of this movie like is that a bad sign and when you get to the end of it and you and You know without getting too much into spoilers, uh, the main thrust of the villain's arc is essentially a an elaborate suicide Attempt you're like, oh wow. This is just a very dark movie that happens to include a lot of these You know me slapping kind of scenes with you know, like wacky spackety spider-man and stuff like that you know, otherwise it's it's you know, it's about death and and Uh, you know forgiving somebody that has done Horrors in their life and how much you should blame them for it. How much is nature versus nurture? There's a lot of kind of really heavy heavy themes at play whereas In batman versus superman there are also a lot of heavy themes at play except it comes off like your friend who trains You know, mma trying to read you as poetry Slam poetry. Yeah Like I don't know man. You ever read howards in It's a people system Uh, thanks everybody for watching. We will be back tomorrow. Uh programming note for you live viewers pass this along to everybody else We'll be a half hour early tomorrow One o'clock pacific four o'clock eastern because of some database maintenance We want to make sure we get the show published before that happens. So we will see you a half hour early tomorrow