 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Mind pump with your hosts Salda Stefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews I know you're happy dude. Wait. What song wait? Can't I can't feel the rain. I can't feel the rain I said this before but When Adam sings it sounds like a guy who sucks at singing who's trying to like sound bad You know I mean it sounds like you're doing it on purpose already sucks who's trying to yeah Yeah, yeah, got it. You're close there I mean, I'm a I'm a guy who really sucks at it's trying to sound really good But this just gets worse. It's just okay. Do that again, but try to sound worse. I want to see if it Ready go I can't feel the rain They're both What it just comes out I don't have like a barometer of like better or worse Or there's a well, I think or there's like a like a I think I think come from my stomach, right like I can't feel the rain Wow, that's just got weird. No, it is. I think that wasn't even normal I think there's a like I can't pitch it with a girl. I can't feel the rain. Wow, you know, like I'm getting better I feel like yeah, wow, I think you should just stop I think there's like a like a like physics There's a limit as to how bad it can get and then you're hitting it You know, I mean, yeah, it's like the speed of light like there's no way you could get worse So even if you try to sound worse, you're just that the same bottom It's the speed of light but in reverse for bad singing. I'm still in search. You lost music science Just made some shit up. Yeah, you know, I believe that you whether you're you're a god-believer or not I feel like we all have like these gifts, right? I just I'm you know, I'm 35 still searching for mine and it's not Wasn't athletics. It wasn't singing. Maybe that's your gift. Yeah, maybe your gift is knowing that you don't have one I'm dyslexic. I can't I can't fucking put a sentence together like I don't know what I don't know what my strength is I used to be attractive, but as I'm aging here. I'm losing my hair and to diminishing Value. Yeah, so I believe I believe I'm latching on to something else. It's gonna come though soon. I disagree You disagree. Yeah with what? You're unattractive Comment. Oh, you think so. Yeah, so I've known you now for personally for about two little over two years And you're slightly more attractive today than you were the first time I met you That's because you like you like you like my handlebar most ash. That's why You always wanted to grow one of those and I did it It could be could be I don't know. I can't put my finger on it Did any of you guys did you any of you guys didn't even try did any of you guys tune into hell on wheels yet? Have you guys watched the show yet? No, oh man. No, dude. No, you guys not netflix and chill This goes back to why I'm trying to tell you guys. No, I do fucking Keep up with you, dude. No, this is the fact that you guys don't know any of these netflix shows Oh, we're old. That's what it is. Yeah, we're old and out of style. You know what it is. Justin It's it's uh, he's got time to watch netflix after I'm saying I'm like, I don't know We're like, oh my god. I have five minutes. I'm like everywhere Yeah, I'm like trying to like take those precious moments and like have a conversation and then pass out Yeah, that's a man. This is why you know, Adam's like Do you have to be real or do you have kids? I'm totally into this thingy and that thingy. He looks at his schedule. He's like, man. Okay. Let's see. I did hella work Yeah, I read three books powered it out. I did some yoga. I had some sex I still had five hours left to watch netflix and chill. You know what say, you know, speaking of kids, uh I don't have any but uh, I got an inbox uh from somebody who wrote like a really nice Message in regards to you two knuckleheads. Oh, yeah talking about your kids And this is why I'm always pushing you guys to share more. He's a 24 year old parent And he said it was extremely inspiring to hear you guys Talk and share about your relationship with your kids and the things that you guys are continuing to learn and grow from because It's really valuable advice, man And you guys, uh, I wish and I hope that we you guys share more of that with people because I always get I don't know if you guys get feedback. Maybe people don't tell you but people tell me all the time I don't know why they tell me. I'm the one with no fucking kids. Yeah, that's weird They should just tell me I get feedback, but it's uh, it's hard for me to listen to it's hard for me to listen to that episode Oh, really? Yeah, because it gets real deep, you know, and then when I hear it. I'm like, ah I don't want to hear that, you know, because then it kind of hits Well, I haven't been as emotional on any podcast. We have done literally we've done almost 500 podcasts The first time ever did I literally like almost cry like three different times and that was in this episode that's coming up With justin ren. Justin ren. Oh man was I was right there with you, dude. One of the most impactful Podcasts that we did totally different. Um, I wouldn't be surprised if we lose some people that don't can't get in touch with that side But I hope I don't think so at all. I think people are gonna I mean, you've got this you have to be a piece of shit to not it. You've got a big You know this big mma fighter this this just you know brutal fighter who has his own personal battles and You know, you'll hear in the in the upcoming episode here, but he goes to the congo and decides to become the voice for Uh a people over there the pygmies and he talks about some of the stuff that he saw and what they're doing to help them and One of the when you meet this guy Very rarely have I ever met someone where I just you feel they're Like they're just this gentle Empathetic wonderful human being and you get that feeling immediately when you meet this guy Again, he's this big guy could be very intimidating He's got the cauliflower ear because he was a wrestler and then mma fighter And you just want to fucking hug the guy because yeah, he's a good guy His story literally which I you know, I was familiar with uh, you know, what he's doing over there But I wasn't familiar from where where he came from which to me that was like that's well that ties it all in I mean it makes it so personal it makes it like You you understand further his purpose and like how he got to that purpose and it just just it sort of establishes this timeline and Really connects you to the process of like What it all means and why why it was so impactful for me. I hope I didn't man I got impacted by I hope I didn't weird him out because I must have given him like six man hugs Oh, I did too I honestly wanted to be like a backpack. I just wanted to like wrap myself around every time we every time We'd like pause and conversation. I felt like I just need to hug you right now Honestly, I wanted to give him some nice. Oh my god, you know cheek kisses. I wanted it because Wow, wow, yeah on the cheek Well, he's just such a he's such a want to nuzzle up in his beard. He's just such a good man like a good No, he is person from what he's doing and you know what I don't know about you guys But after we were done, uh, man, I went home and I really it impacted me so strongly I really started to think about all the stuff that I'm doing Yeah, and what I should be doing or what I you know what my what I think my purpose is and Oh, brother, your purpose is what you're doing. Here's the deal Yeah Justin the people that are going to listen to this episode, um, you know, and if it if it impacts you in any way, um, I urge you to go to his fight for the forgotten dot org page or his water For dot org, which is the number four And and do a donation and if you if you don't if you don't have the means to do that then Where you can help is by sharing this if I haven't I've never asked you guys to Share a podcast or share an episode Um, yeah, I know it's hard sometimes to share a podcast because it's not user friendly But this will also be up on our youtube channel. So when it goes up on there, you can share it from there on mine pump radio It's a different youtube. Yeah mine pump radio. You can find it I urge you to share this with as many people as you possibly can this message needs to get out to more people He's I know he's torn over to fire in the kid and he goes over to Joe Rogan, he just did our buddy Jordan at art of charm So he's definitely getting his message out there and if if uh, if our mp family can Help out and spread the word spread this podcast He's a he's a very brave individual We need more people like him in the world, but but what we can do is support people like him because they're so rare Um, oh, you can also find him on his instagram page at the big pygmy So, uh, without any further ado here. We are talking to uh, justin ren You know when two men with a beard interact each other the guy with the the more powerful But you have to yield to them. Yeah, you do. It's like it's like rams. You know, who has the biggest horns Hey, how do you like that the big top beard man? How do you like that right through that oil? That stuff's awesome, right? Man, I like it a lot, right? We just uh, we actually just met uh with the creator a nice sheen go last week And then uh, probably when this releases will probably be official with them and really really like the product They're putting out there, which means I gotta grow my beard back Yeah, you can just put you can just put it on your just shave. I just shave that. Yeah, I got a video I'm shooting today. So yeah, this guy's doing a pissed Kickstarter for his uh, axon stick that drops uh coming up real soon here But met Justin man, so excited to have you in the house right now You got quite the lineup right now you're hopping on some podcasts You just did you just get done with one or where you heading next? Yeah, just got done with art of charm Jordan. Yeah with Jordan. He's the best. He's our buddy. Yeah. He's an awesome awesome guy Very cool guy. Very glad to know him and uh, yeah, I'll be going on the fighter and the kid with uh, Brennan Chubb and Brian Cowan Very cool. Uh, and then as the next day I'll go on Joe Rogan's show again There'll be my fifth time on there and he's just so awesome, man. Oh, Joe. That's where I discovered you Yeah, I listened to your guys' interview and uh got into what you're up to and all that stuff and yeah, man Great great stuff. You're up to yeah, if you if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit of uh, just your story, um, it starts with you becoming a fighter and fighting professionally and then it takes a very amazing, uh, turn Um, and you know for some of the stuff you're doing now, which I have a tough time watching some of your videos And not getting emotional. I really I'm not a religious person, but if I were I would say you're doing god's work but, uh, Tell us let's start with your story first. You're how did you get into MMA? How did that also you told us earlier you were into wrestling and yeah And what got me into wrestling was basically I had zero, uh, absolutely zero self Confidence self-esteem self-worth. Uh, I grew up getting very heavily bullied And you're a massive dude. Yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm a pretty big dude. Oh, you were small Yeah, this was just like pre puberty type of deal. Yeah And it was uh, I don't know man I I was I had transferred into the school at third grade and Got in a fight the first day of school, but I didn't swing. I didn't do anything. I got jumped on by the the kid He's actually in prison right now Um, oh shit holding up a convenience store, but um, we know who won that right and no he uh And then him and his friends and I mean they just bullied me from third grade through All the way through eighth grade and I was just a target and I didn't stand up for myself I didn't fight back. I was invited to uh, or actually I asked my favorite, uh Crush in elementary school sixth grade asked, uh, Jessica to the homecoming and, uh, we have this crazy absolutely crazy tradition in texas But it's homecoming mums. Have you guys ever seen those? No, no, no, man. They are these massive just absolutely massive fake flowers or corsages and they actually have A actual sized teddy bears on them. They have these streamers and bells and whistles No joke and the kids spend their whole allowance on this thing to give to their date to homecoming Have you ever seen that? No, wow that much it's a texas thing. It's a texas thing. It's only there everything's bigger and better in texas, right? And it's season or slash whatever Right, it's around homecoming and there's people that that's all they do for their living Is year-round they're they're getting ready for homecoming Because they're making these homecoming mums that now are ridiculous where girls are having to wear harnesses to get these And you can barely see the girl behind the the mum. I'm not kidding. It's it's it's ridiculous And I spent my whole allowance on A homecoming mum took jessica got the streamer that said justin and jessica on it Got to the high school stands worth the high school game And actually this was seventh grade not sixth grade and uh, so it's first year middle school And yeah, I take her i'm excited And one of the notorious Bullies came up his name was justin as well And uh, he walked up and everyone turned at half time He came up to jessica put his arm out She put her arm around his he grabbed the streamer that said justin and jessica and basically said hey Thanks for buying this for and i'm like what just kind of confused and the whole school's turned around looking at me And uh, he's like, yeah, um, you didn't think she was actually going to come with you Did you oh? And uh, everyone laughed I got laughed out of there, you know kind of ran down the Stadium crying or whatever Yeah, then the next year it got even worse. Oh, it hurts my soul. Yeah, so the next year was even worse and uh And that's the year I found the ufc though. I mean I it was probably three weeks after Well, jennifer um was my other middle school crush and she crushed me when I got to her uh birthday party And it was a costume contest and so everyone was dressing up everyone was talking about what they were going to wear I I really liked her. So I knew she loved transformers and that her dad worked for dr. Pepper And so being a country kid and having some duct tape. I made myself into a uh, dr. Pepper transformer head to toe Epic brilliant. I mean like the the 12 packs on my arms and you know making a chest plate and having a sword in one hand And a birthday present in the other Yeah And got to got to the house and went inside and uh, her grandmother said that she was gonna love it I get to the backyard open the door and we just met with some cameras flashing and fingers pointing and uh And or just like one or two flashes and um, yeah Jennifer was there um saying like can't believe you thought you were good enough to come to my party Oh, wow that same guy. Justin was the one that that I don't know why he had it out for me But he just did and he was the one that organized the whole thing came up with the idea One of his friends said you're worthless and he said you should just kill yourself And so at 13 years old that was like a huge battle where I went into the spiraling depression Um hated myself believed I was worthless. Uh, and I don't know if I don't know I got so deep into this so quick with the Oh, no, no, I love it because you know it talk about back history We talk a lot about how uh, we kind of we just did an episode recently about Childhood and how much this really shapes who we are. I mean that's it's something that uh, Makes you the man you are so I'm really interested to hear how this changed you for good Yeah, well, I guess how it changed me for good just a little foreshadowing I guess is it made me a much more compassionate Uh person I believe like whenever I mean I sat at the lunch table by myself Pelted in the back of the head with chocolate milk spit wides I I and then now, you know seeing people and they're down and out or When they feel alone, you know, I try to reach out try to do something because that's what I needed That's what I wanted and what that's what my wrestling coaches actually did for me And I guess three weeks after that that party I went to this uh flea market. It's called traders village is huge in texas and I went out and I was going to buy a BB gun but on the walk I uh I found a used vhs tape shop and uh stopped in there and I found ufc 2 through 9 And uh, I I bought that that's what I wanted to get I I looked at the cover and I what what I guess first or initially drew me to it Was um, I loved watching like martial arts movies and blood sport and all this different stuff Yeah Exactly, but whenever I looked at it. I just thought these guys these guys don't get bullied. Um, these guys, uh Know how to stand up for themselves Or just look like you guys look and no one's probably just going to come up and try to pick a fight Um, or just pick on you So I was drawn to that but then deeper uh what kept me intrigued was the the human chess match of it Just how it combined the olympic sports of wrestling and judo and boxing and then this new thing called brazilian jiu-jitsu and Well, there's guys that are from sumo trying it out and I mean just all this craziness and uh Yeah, I I I bought up those nine and my parents are pretty conservative and I had the uh the vhs tapes under my bed I had hide them my dad found him. He thought I was a stack of porn He was disappointed Oh man, he's looking at fighting. Yeah, it might have been worse. I think he was what he says because he's like He took it to my mom. He's gonna try this one day and I was like, no, I won't but just in the back of my mind I was like, that's my dream At that you're what you're 13 14 you say around this time 13 years old right? Okay. Who was your favorite fighter? Like who who'd you identify with? Um at that time? I loved uh several guys But there was like dan hindersen who's just retired. Uh, yeah, but he's been fighting forever. Uh, reynika tour. There was uh Don fry at that time. There was oh you love the american wrestler. Yeah I did because that was something that I saw around like well I noticed early on well, obviously hoist was was incredible So that was really really cool, but I didn't know where I could get brazilian jiu-jitsu. There was nowhere like that at that time And so uh, but then there was this wave of wrestlers that were coming in and they were just able to dominate if a guy was A stand-up guy they could take him to the ground. He no longer could use his punches If the guy was a hoist gracey and he was great on the ground They could keep it on their feet and out box the guy or just grind on him and pound on him And so I love that like the smashing machine mark curve I remember that documentary. Yeah. Oh, isn't that crazy? That was brutal. Yeah brutal Brutal to see what what and I I loved that documentary in uh in high school and then he had a lot of uh Addictions to opiates and everything else and I fell right into that too. Did you really? Uh, yeah big time for six years. Hmm. Um, and so yeah anyways, I'm kind of going all over the place But that's where I found my dream of fighting though is like getting bullied growing up that way Being the last kid in America. I think with a chili bull hair. So when did you actually start? So at this age right now you're seeing it. It's kind of more a fantasy or a dream When did you start taking action and and start wrestling start when did that start happening? Yeah, so at 15 years old, uh, I got transferred out of the schools that I was at because of the bullying got so bad even freshman year I was there and uh My parents decided, uh, you know, hey, we need to take them out of this school and public school Let's try to put them in a private school and uh, it has good athletics He could try to focus on something and uh, they were the state championship football team Which my dad loved football and he was like, hey get in there. Maybe you can go to college playing football Um, but whenever I went there they had wrestling I had already started wrestling a year, but I was the only kid at my high school That was doing it because it wasn't very big in texas And but the coaches at bishop lynch high school where kinny monday and kindle cross which they're both olympic gold medalist Kinny just coached me in my last few fights. Oh, yeah, it's just so cool that he was there and learning from him I mean after one year of wrestling But then learning from him you don't develop very many bad habits whenever he's your coach and your training partner Um, he just doesn't allow you so you to do the wrong thing So you get good quick and uh after a couple years wrestling with him as national champ and oh, wow Yeah, so he just told me set my goals high write them down put them somewhere you can see them And uh and since that was my my outlet that was the thing that I had the only thing that I really felt Was building up that self-esteem or self-worth self-confidence. So you feel very empowered Oh, without a doubt. Do you remember so, you know, do you remember that transition of of starting to feel empowered and feeling good about yourself? Because I could imagine from what you started this off with like How much that wore on you as a child especially that age man that age is so rough for kids I actually took a year out of school from being bullied. It was in my eighth grade year I was I was a kid who moved to uh from california to colorado and colorado I was you know, they were calling me all kinds of racist names and throwing snowballs at me And I used to always get along with people and it was just really rough for me And I had to get homeschooled and I remember how uh impressionable that was At what point did you feel like the shift like you like got a hold of it and started to use it to like Motivate you and wouldn't you remember that transition? Man, I know it sounds goofy, but I think there was Transition whenever I first found those tapes UFC tapes like the if these guys could do it and I'm young right now if I start now So I was already trying to wrestle around with the very few friends that I had like two guys Sam and Max are brothers and uh, and we would start wrestling around at their house because that's the only place we could watch the the UFC tapes and uh And I just was like man, I I might be able to do this and then once I had those coaches And then whenever the kids at school started noticing the coaches coming to lunch and coming to check in on me and and And then the team that I was with they had all wrestled in their Kind of kids program. So they had been wrestling their whole lives under these coaches But then I came in and I was just coachable. Um, I listened I wanted to learn And whenever that happened I in the first year and a half of wrestling that I wrestled I won one match by one point and so I wasn't very good But then whenever I got underneath these coaches and and and they believed in me it started having me believe in myself They're like, hey, you're a good kid. You've had a tough time But just stick with it, you know and uh and once I started I remember there was this one tournament where I went from The zero matches or sorry one match that I won by one point then I went in there and they like look you're hesitating Um, you're you're a little timid out there on the mat and yeah, you're going against guys I have a lot more experience and we're in up in oklahoma where these kids wrestled all the time and uh They're like, hey, just get on the mat and just try it. You know, they they were beating in one move Which is that lateral drop throw and uh, they were just pounding that in me You know, you need one move and let's do that move a thousand times Uh, I think it's even a Bruce Lee quote. I'm gonna slaughter it But you know have one move that you do a thousand or 10,000 Yeah, I fear the man that knows what that practices a punch a thousand times versus The man who practices a thousand punches one time one time. Yeah, absolutely So they were saying hey, just be basic, but be aggressive get out there and just just do your thing Just let it go and at least if you tried You know, you weren't hesitant You weren't timid if they beat you because they were better then that's okay But but don't let them beat you because you didn't try or you hesitated or you held back You know go out there and just let it go good advice And uh, so I did that that one tournament in oklahoma. I was the only Texan there And I just threw every guy to their back and pinned them all It was like wow, it's kind of clicked, you know, and it was like hey If you out there and you try you put yourself out there you take a risk Um, those those times can pay off now now meeting you now and knowing what you're doing now you are a very kind, uh Empathetic like a gentle like you're a big dude. You're a massive dude, but very gentle Kind individual and that's the that's the energy you give off Were you when you were first started wrestling and fighting? Were you the same way or were you motivated by? Like you know the spell of rage Yeah, like I need to get this out and fight these people and beat them because that or were you like this Um, I would say it was more like this in the training room Uh before hand and after Um, but my coach has beat it in me that you know, if you're going to be a competitor You know find what's going to make you tick what's going to give you motivation Um, they would always I mean in high school They were taking us through visualization drills that they learned from sports psychologist at the olympic training center Um, and yeah, but whenever I got out there to compete It was I mean that's just the wrestling mentality to go out there to beat them down To break them and so uh, you have because they're trying to break you and then uh, you got to give them More reasons to quit than they're giving you and uh, so that that that would be the motivation behind it But I would say there was times that uh, that I I always felt like I needed to prove myself Um, especially being the Texan that started wrestling a sophomore year Um needing to Need to go out there against these other guys that grew up wrestling or i'm wrestling guys that their dads or ncda champions or olympians and different things like that and they're their coach and So uh going out there and wrestling guys always kind of be in the underdog Um always having to to try to prove that but then having those guys behind me that gave me so much confidence Like these guys have been there. They've done it. Um, and so yeah, I'd go out there trying to prove a point Um, and yeah, it was pretty cool to go from sophomore year start and wrestling really To then or summer before and then you know, win in a couple national championships How'd you make the transition to mma from there? So I went to the olympic training center right out of high school. I was recruited iowa state oclima state all those schools and uh And I went I decided I wanted to do greco roman wrestling, which is uh, the ncda style isn't done At the olympic level and so uh, I was recruited out of high school to there one of the two guys and went there lived for a year Um, and then I we can see this. I broke that elbow And uh, I I tore that's where the addictions happened with opiates and uh, I um man it broke dislocated I tore the ulnaric collateral ligament um, and then they tried to send me to a mainly a Knee and ankle doctor to get the elbow surgery So I had to wait for four months arguing with the insurance company having the doctor they're sending to me Uh petition write letters and say like hey, I'm a knee and ankle doctor. This guy if he's going to compete Uh, maybe trying to represent the u.s. Or be a professional athlete. He needs an elbow doctor to do his elbow surgery Go figure. Yeah And yeah, so I had to wait for four months and the whole time they put me on oxy Because it was completely torn the ulnaric collateral ligament And so yeah, so that surgery Was tough. That's where those addictions happened But then after that, uh, I guess what I was going to tell you though the 30 They told me I had a 30 to 35 chance of competing again So because of that I decided um, mma was an outlet for the wrestlers that uh, you know At the olympic training center I had a coach that stepped away To work at home depot, but he was an olympian. He was a world Medalist and he couldn't make enough to support his family as a coach So he had to go work there, which isn't I mean there's nothing bad about that But that's he is one of the best at his trade And um, and it was better for him to step out of that To be able to provide for his family doing a job that he didn't necessarily want to do So fighting as a professional, uh, uh sport and that being my childhood dream I jumped into it at 19 years old after that surgery took and I knew I was going to be able to compete again Yeah, started fighting at 19 Can we can I back you up a little bit and are you okay with getting into a little bit of the opiate addiction? I've yeah, I went through the same thing when I had my first I'd never broken a bone never tore anything never had an issue before I tore my acl and mcl and uh, when I've never had I was total clean kid growing up never really did drugs so Never even thought I would be somebody who could get addicted to something And uh, I remember the doctor telling me oh, you know, stay ahead of the pain take one more take one more And before I know it I was up to about seven Vicod in a day and then when I thought I would didn't need him anymore I thought I just cut cold turkey and then I experienced that feeling and uh, so I have a lot of compassion with people that go through it And I also feel like it's a great thing to share with with others because I know there's a lot of people out there that battle this Yeah, no, man. It was the toughest, uh Depression and the addictions were yeah the two biggest battles in my life for sure In the addictions. I mean, it was so when I started taking them and whenever the Uh, I was told you have a 30 35 chance of competing again. Oh, uh, I I felt like that childhood dream was never even going to get started to be a fighter God You had the adversity you went through you finally get fucking rolling and then that gets someone tells you that Yeah, that must have been rough. Yeah, and then they gave me the pills Well, I went into the depression knowing that I mean spiraling down again I had kind of pulled myself out of it by the hard work and its accomplishments and wrestling Um, and then to know that that the only thing that was giving me significance and value and worth in my life or sense of that Uh, was wrestling was fighting. Um, and that that might be taken away. Um, I I needed the pills for the the injury, I guess At least that's what I was told by the doctors and uh, and I did need something to help But I liked it and enjoyed it Because it was numbing that depression side of me And so uh, and I loved that because I could just kind of erase and wipe and Vicodin yeah for sure and then being able to get oxy from it turned into three different doctors in three different states Um, because I was in colorado is going to iowa a lot to wrestle and then texas just the family So I was able to go and get you know 120 from this guy 90 from this guy and 60 from this guy Because they didn't communicate across state lines at that time. And so, um Yeah, and then whenever that ran out, I was going and getting it from anywhere I could find it and turned into man. I remember it's the six to eight week long binge. Um that I don't really remember anything There was a hazy memory me hitchhiking in the mountains of colorado um and then I had My best friend call And he said uh on the voicemail. I can't believe and I had missed it like a few days earlier Um, and this kind of scared me sober or something sober up a little bit Uh But he said I can't believe he missed my wedding. I can't believe that my best man didn't show up And man, oh shit. Yeah, bro. That that that was right. It was uh How do I say it like I was this hurt dude that just kept hurting people that only love me Um, and this was as I was a professional I think this was actually after the ultimate fighter tv show and that happened Um, which I got on at 21. I was the youngest heavyweight there and everything. Um, so everything looks like it was going well Uh from the outside looking in the reporters, you know, you're the youngest guy in the division Youngest heavyweight that they've signed Um, you're doing well. You have these accomplishments behind you Um, but internally like I was I was at war, you know, there is uh It was the darkest time of my life being in front of the most lights and cameras and all that stuff Crazy how people perceive things just because we see you on tv and see those things and we have no idea What's really going on inside of behind? Yeah, that that that I could sober up. Hopefully At least part of the time six to eight weeks before my fight just to buckle down and hopefully not You know pop on the drug test But then it turned into me using, you know two days before the fight and everything else and if they would have tested me I would have failed for sure and um And yeah needing that needing that Like I didn't just want it anymore mentally or Like I physically needed it if that makes sense that addiction that you know, yeah So it was brutal, man It was it was my mom broke into my house when I was missing before and she found you know the coke and and Just bottles everywhere and uh And a loaded gun and she was just you know terrified. Um, and at one time they thought I was overdosing and uh Just like I had woke up I had this like heat wave that came over me in this cold rush right after it And I was just you know a guy's cupping the back of my head and he's saying justin you got a drink You got a drink and he's giving me this water Crush, you know the bottle in my mouth and half of it Half of it probably didn't even go in my mouth, you know It just went all over and I look at him like who You know, who where am I? Who are you? He goes Who am I you've been sleeping on my couch eating my food? Like I don't know if he said a week or what but I mean I had been there living with this guy Didn't even know it. Um look around scary place scary house I mean not not scary people but but people that were doing scary stuff Around and so it was tough man. The addiction's got really really bad and I'm just incredibly Fortunate grateful that I was able to come on the other side of it because I know so much. How did you do that? Yeah, do you remember? Do you remember one how high you got up to like how many oxy cottons invited in and then do you remember The transition out and what that process was like? Yeah, I mean it got it got real bad to where I got um To where I was even going to training and I would uh, I mean it's sparring days And I'm I was at grudge training center at the time We had like Shane carwin, Nate mark where Rashad was there all the time Gsp would come through a georgie pair all the time And we had this kind of working relationship with tri-star in canada and jackson Greg jackson's camp and albuquerque and so I mean like two or three of the best teams in the world at that time And I could be there for my training camps and people would help me train And then whenever it was done And I wouldn't even show up a lot for my training camps But whenever my training camp was over I wouldn't be there for anyone that had helped me But yeah in sparring days I would be you know Chugging some vodka taking some pills starting up my vape and and and going to training Right after that and just uh just being messed up, you know and It was uh, it was tough because I got to where it was 34 32 to one They took a team vote and I kind of came in Uh Late to training of course at that time and um And yeah, it just looked at me everyone looked at me different coach called me into his office He said look justin. We love you. I'm the only guy that voted saying You know, you should stay or we should get you some help or we should do something But none of the guys want you here like um like you have to go get help you have to to beat this This is a bigger fight right now and I and I Received it kind of well. I broke down cried right there with him. This is trevor wittman and uh, and he you know, loved me hugged me Um, but you know being sent out of there. I just felt like this was my childhood dream I became an astral champion in wrestling. I was on the ultimate fighters youngest guy there And like my childhood dream is like turned into this living nightmare Um, and now that is being taken away from me. So it wasn't the injury. It was the addictions that were taking This away from me. So um, that was rough, but that was like rock bottom for me And I mean a couple weeks before that I missed The wedding and then so this was a shorter time frame where it was like boom boom boom All everything just the floor fell out from beneath me um Yeah, and I just I just had people that started to rally around me one guy's in specific and uh And he got me going this like retreat And it was truly Transformational went there. There's a lot of broken people that were getting healed up And uh and changing their lives and seeing people that had done that Um was just really encouraging uh to me And like you said like you're not a religious dude. I'm I'm not either uh, at least I don't I don't think so but um, this was one that That I don't know man. They were just saying like for me. It was I would say This is me and my personal stuff, but it's what really helped and I just say god love the hell out of me. Um, and so It changed my life to where I wanted to do something bigger than just me if that makes sense Like I wanted to make a difference and impact like life's not about me Uh, how can how can instead of me just being a fighter and fighting against people and you're right? There was uh Even if I tried to suppress it there was like this rage that was to my wrestling to my fighting Um for sure where I went out there and I'm like I'm gonna punish this guy I'm gonna take out all my aggression all me and grow all my demons on this guy God, you have so much awareness. Are you a reader? Did you have a great mentor? I mean, was this just all you putting it together by yourself? I mean It was at this time you're 20 something in your early 20s. Yeah, that was 23 23 years old and I I've always had uh Not always but after I found, you know, kinny and kindle. I would seek out Yeah, people that were a lot older and uh Coaches mentors dads of kids on the wrestling team or This coach that coach I'd always try to gravitate towards someone that was doing something that I wanted to do with my life um, and so even though I had all those addictions and the depression, um, I did have all those Amazing words of advice that had been, you know, dropped in the bucket by by so many different individuals speaking kind of life and encouragement over me Um, and then during the darkest times. Yeah, there's just these few guys that just were like, hey We're gonna go to war with you battle with you or stand with you in this We got your back. We're in front of you. We're beside you Um, and that really really really helped it sounds like you you finally figure it out or you finally Had compassion for yourself Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's a good point because um, I think it's a lot easier To uh, sometimes with some personality types. I think um to have any sort of compassion towards It's easy to have compassion towards others. I'm not necessarily easy, but but easier Yeah, uh, than yourself if you if you hold yourself to a high standard at least Every small mistake you can blow out of proportion and be so critical of yourself And that's how I was like if if I lost a match and it was a stupid mistake I would no one was going to be able to beat me up more than myself So I would uh try to learn it's interesting because had it, you know You know, I have children and I huge learning lesson for me with kids is Like if my kids do something, let's say they take a test and they don't get a hundred percent or they compete in something And they make a silly mistake You know, I'll talk them and coach them through it, but I have limitless compassion and compassion for them Like, you know, look, you tried hard. This is a lesson. It's not a big deal But I never was able to do that to myself And uh having children made me realize like hold on a second. Like why not? Like I should be able to love myself the same way I love these children and what I found was Being compassionate to myself in that same pure way Made me a better person and made my compassion for others More pure, you know, coming from a from an even better place because it's coming from my own For me being pure me being whole right, you know, um, that's a great point. So So I want to talk now about your You know, what you're doing now your purpose now, you know, your your your fight for the forgotten What let's go into that because a lot of our audience isn't familiar with With with that whole story and what you're doing now. Like how did you go from well? How yeah, how close are you to getting there right now? Like it sounds like you're starting to make this transition that there's a greater purpose for you there Was this part of that that sort of retreat that you went to and it started there in 11 months later I went to the Congo for the first time, which would become fight for the forgotten. So After that experience, um, and after that transition in my life, I actually stopped fighting for a year I said I was going to put it on the shelf. This is my job. This is my passion, but I need I need to To take a break. I need to focus on myself build up a life in a foundation I can stand on and It was but part of that was okay if I'm gonna I'm gonna try to get involved I'm just gonna try to do something like I don't have I don't have any experience Or or college education that that had said you can do this or that but I started to volunteer at the local um Homeless shelter and then I became an official volunteer and went through all the training at the children's hospital and Uh, now why pick all that why pick volunteering? Man, I think that I had um One like people helped me and I just wanted to help some somebody else Um and two I knew that by or at least It it was a positive focus Um, I wasn't in the gym doing what I love So I needed to fill it with something that I could love Equally um or be as passionate about and man just seeing some of the stuff seeing some of the rewards Uh that come out of helping one guy You know in the shelter that that it was his first night of homelessness ever Um, but introducing him to the guy that ran the place Um, and then it turned out that I won't go into too many details, but he had HIV and he had found out he had HIV or that his wife was cheating on him whenever she he found out He had HIV um because he had been married and never had cheated on or anything like that And then all of a sudden he comes down with HIV so I just wrecked him his wife had died Um, he had lost basically everything Um and just to know that that reaching out to this guy listening to him Learning his story Just caring kind of about him caring enough to listen And then knowing that I could introduce him to matt this guy's name was stan introduced him to matt And then uh matt was like, you know what there's a program we got. Let me introduce you to these people And now you know as of As of a couple years ago, I know that this happened like six years ago But as of like two years ago, I know that he was leading a group and had his own apartment and Was leading a group of other people that were transitioning out of homelessness that had hiv To see him like go from that place of rock bottom to then coming out and actually Using it to to help others Um and so seeing stories like that and seeing just a little connection. I didn't do much there All I did was hey stan meet matt like this matt this is stan's story, you know, and he only spent one night on the street Um and no anyway, so it was just really cool to see stuff like that happen And as I was helping others it was continuing to help me Uh on my path to never become that dude again. That was uh That was it was just undependable unreliable battling suicidal thoughts and depression and and all that so um Yeah, but I started locally then I started doing stuff a little bit like nationally every now and then and then I wanted to make One trip a year internationally and try to make a difference um I didn't realize that that that's not the best way to do it and uh really like the the whole Show up blow up and blow out technique or go somewhere to a foreign land A country you don't know and a culture and people you don't know and To come in there acting like you know the answer to their problems Is I think a lot of ways it comes from a good place and good intentions naive naive Even arrogant sometimes like hey, we're we're from here and we have this so we're gonna because you don't like I don't know There's like a little underlying Thing of like uh like we're so much better off. So let us do this for you. It's also not empowering Yeah, not empowering at all. I and so my goal after my first trip to congo was um Was man, I saw the negative impact of charity um, and and it was like man like Opportunity is better than charity. Yeah, how do we how do we create opportunities for people there? And and how do we have low impact and there was a book that was called when helping hurts Um, really great book. There's a documentary out now on netflix. It's called a poverty ink um, and it shows the the incredibly negative tragic or just um Oh detrimental impact that foreign aid has and even creates more poverty In in so many ways whenever you come in and you give handouts Uh of free clothes the people there that are tailors or that have a clothing shop or that repair You know this or you come in and give away a ton of free shoes Well, the local cobbler there or the guy that's build making shoes in country You just put his ass out of business out of business because those guys aren't living month to month or week to week They're living day by day And so you got to you got to slow down God nobody really thinks about shit like that. It's just this air shows you how self Yeah, and we just we want to give because it makes us feel good. Right. Yeah, it's a great heart but but but you really got to have a heart for the people first and that'll be a A lot at least a positive impact even whenever you leave Um, and so a lot of times. I mean I was there in Uganda when this uh is outside of ginger I won't use the the community's name because it's almost a slum. I mean, it's it's one of the worst slums in Uganda but It's become a almost a tourist attraction Because there's so many people that go from the west there and they want to go to the poorest place possible It's easier to get in Uganda. Uh, there's it's it's a little more comfortable there Not in the slums, but uh, they give slum tours Because the locals are like, you know what like Um Like they're doing it for the safaris for the lions and the The giraffes and the gorillas like like but people want to come and see these people So we're going to charge them for it And then some people that have done that are saying that they're actually going to use it for something good in the community The money that they make from it, but still it's like it's exploiting people. Wow And yeah, so anyways, I I kind of skipped a little bit ahead, but but going the first time and meeting The pygmies who have now become second family. How did you meet them? How did that happen? Uh So I went with a buddy of mine. Um, this is in the Congo. Yeah, this is in the conga And when you went what was like was your intention? I'm going to look for this or I'm looking or did you come about this? Like how did that happen? Like what was the? Um, that's a question I get a lot and I'm starting to become more comfortable answering it because uh, I feel like I sound crazy whenever I say how I went there for the first time But I'll just sounds like serendipitous story. Yeah It was I wasn't even looking for it. It wasn't on my radar. I mean, I I had never thought I would go to Africa like I thought um at this time I hadn't thought the The let's do something locally and let's do something internationally sometimes But just having a platform from fighting. I thought let's use that platform for good Um, but really it was only on my radar. Hey help people around you Like you need to help people around you before you go anywhere else and help anyone else Um, but man about 10 11 months into that life change I just found myself in a moment and this was just me personally But just I prayed like, you know, god, what do you want to do with my life? Like because I at that time I was like helping I'll be helping but there was no direction and what I was doing Um, but I really did want to make impact and I just Dude, I had this vision. I sound nuts because I experienced with uh ton of psychedelics and And and but this was not Uh, I wasn't tripping out like I had a movie in my mind And it was like and I told you guys earlier that like we would practice visualization tons You want to see the match in your mind a hundred times before you get out there and you do it? um But this was like effortless and I saw myself in a rainforest and I was walking down a footpath and I uh I'm walking walk and then I hear this drumming and then I get closer I hear this singing I get into this village and I don't know who they are But I see the suffering that like I see ribs poking out and I know that they're hungry and that they're sick and that they're poor and that they're Um That they're thirsty they don't have clean water and I knew that they were hated or oppressed and even enslaved and uh I know this sounds nuts, man, but uh but And then I just felt like they felt so forgotten like like as people and um, I came out of that vision Crying like a like a madman like or just hyper like Like hyper ventilating I left a puddle of tears this this I was on like my hands and knees just crying and um And I kind of sat and chewed on it for like three days. I thought I'm never gonna tell anyone this story like did it just come to you? Yeah, and I I don't know I like I didn't try to conjure up anything Um, I was just in this place where I was like I was by myself and I kind of had this I was just in a room and thinking and just like what am I gonna do with my life? And I was so I was really trying to think about that and I kind of said that prayer. God, what do we do with my life? and then boom and it was like I don't know how to really explain why it happened But I told someone three days later. It was my buddy Caleb who I found out Uh, actually I just met him uh that day But he he ends up people are telling me about this guy and he's kind of friends with bear grills And he's a survivalist kind of guy and he goes around the world and does this and that And so I'm like, ah, well I wrote this vision down like at the tops had forgotten and then there's like You know a couple of things from the vision on there And I went up to him and like, hey man, I know this is gonna sound crazy But uh, but this is something that that just happened to me and you seem like a dude Like the only dude I'd probably tell him if I never see you again. It's all right I'm the crazy guy Um, and he got excited he kind of leaned in and was nodding his head And all of a sudden I'm like what like what's going like like what because you guys still like jazzed up about it And uh, which was threw me off if there's anything it was an absolute nut And he goes those are the pygmies. Wow I'm like I'm kind of dumbfound out like looking at him. I'm like, who? He was there in the conga. Wow And I'm just like where I don't know like where the conga is and uh He goes I went there last year and I met him and uh, and I was just traveling through Met him for a day and I'm planning a trip back. I have my plane tickets. I'm going in three and a half weeks No, fucking why did man? And I'm leading a team of three other guys are just doing a scout trip going there to see how we can help them Just going to meet them and and live like they live Uh to see if there's any way that we can make a difference there Um, and then he said but those three guys, uh, are one just text me that he's pulling out He's not gonna come The rebels had taken over the airport. They were supposed to fly into And it was real dangerous and the state department said Americans like no way don't travel there at all for any reason Um He's like look, but if you have if you had a vision about this and like I'm telling you those are the people from that vision You're saying they're forgotten like come meet them because yeah They're the forgotten people and uh So I was like what and they told me how crazy it was dangerous even at the time There was the united nations had just confirmed like 30 something counts of cannibalism against the pig means That the rebel groups are actually hunting them killing them cooking them eating them. Oh my god, that still happens in the world That's so yeah, it's not that's bro. Man. Yeah about 34 kilometers from one of the last wells that that I drilled during the year that I was there um There was a rebel group called the my my that would wear Belts that had pygmy skulls on them And they would drink from them before they go into battle. Wow and thinking that it makes them I don't know what this word would be but it's uh Basically invincible or or where the where the bullets fly right through you So it's not invisible, but the bullets go through you. Have you seen like physically seen that? I've seen pictures man where people came up to me showing me on their phone Like here's a child soldier that's holding a human heart and he's got like red Chin, you know from from biting into it and uh, unbelievable So I've seen some crazy stuff there and heard some terrible stories and had poachers come up and trying to sell me okopee meat and uh Or okapi. Have you guys ever heard of that animal? It's it's it's only in the congo and it's they're they're almost in extinct Uh, but it looks like a horse or an antelope body With a butt of a zebra in the head of a giraffe Um, and so it's the only only other animal in the giraffe a day or giraffe family Um, but yeah, it's got the butt of a zebra and the body of kind of an crazy looking animal But yeah, people come up trying to sell me rhino horns and elephant ivory and different stuff like that So it's just a wild Place 38 different warring rebel groups in the east. Uh, there's a new study a failed state study saying congos shouldn't even be called a A failed state. It should be the only country classified as a non-state Uh, it's just the wild wild west like whatever rebel group in the area. That's what rules and uh So it's a crazy place my first time going like this is I guess to close up that Going back a little bit to that vision story like the thing the thing that blew my mind the most and that got me to say Just completely changed my life like it it changed me from basically like the the inside out where I was like I was going this course in my life and it just a complete 180 Okay, I'm gonna dedicate my life to this because we get there And uh, it's Caleb me and a guy named Collin who took the picture on the the cover there and um And we're walking down a footpath in the forest And then there's some drumming and then there's some singing and we get in we meet these you must have got like chills So so much so to where I like I went to like a squatting position like elbows on my knees and just hands on my face and uh And I'm like, oh my gosh like I saw this like three and a half weeks earlier and uh And they're like, this is your vision, you know, Caleb and Collin. I'm like, this is nuts Like this is crazy on the last day though. There there was some wild stuff that happened Well, there's so much corruption and so much heartbreak Meeting people that are suffering in ways that like you didn't even know that weren't even on your radar Uh before seeing people drink from this like mossy moss covered green filth and moving it out of the way with their hands or sticks and filling up a jerry can and having to go the average woman's walk Uh is 3.7 Miles um round trip and they do that not just one time a day But two or three times a day and they have a 20 liter jerry can which is five gallons Which is 44 pounds when completely full And so they're doing these water walks two three times a day Like that's their girls can't go to school because it's um, they need help with them collecting water Even if they had the funds to send them to a school, which you have to pay the school fees in Africa I release in Congo for sure. They're in public schools. Um, they can't send Some of their kids they have to pick and choose who which one of the kids is special enough to go to school Because the other ones need to go collect water and seeing kids that are dying from it or dying slowly of it. Um It just uh, completely wrecked me and then the chief pulled me to the side and this was kind of the the whole the I don't know the the peak of this vision part or story where he pulls me aside and I'm like I was the last day and I'm like, what am what am I actually going to do here though? Like this problem? Yeah, it's overwhelming. I've got to be overwhelming The insurmountable odds and suffering that I I don't understand I've never been through it and I don't know any way to help them How do we have they need land because they don't have any that they own for themselves? For the pygmies and they're the first people of Congo, but they've been so oppressed and Thought to be half man half animal even said so by the government and different stuff Wow And like how how do you how do you fight for these people whenever like it seems like no one is And when they try to stand up they just get smashed back down And in the animal part like 1902 to 1906 we put him a booty pygmy We brought him here with the st. Louis world fair But then 1904 to 1906 otabinga from the ituri rainforest where I've gone and lived They went there took him from his family massacred his family and they put him in the monkey house at the bronx zoo To live with the monkeys and they found them bananas and that that's here in the u.s Like we did that 19 in the 1900s, but it's like the mindset there a lot Is is some way stuck back there when they don't have electricity and they don't have running water and They're they're living in these ways and a lot of primitive ways Um that they still think of them as half man half animal. I'm like, what do you do? What do you even do with this and I felt like I can't I can't make a difference Can't where do you start I could spend my whole life and it'll be maybe a drop in the ocean that I made a difference and uh But no the chief came up and pulled me aside and it just reminded me of that vision because he's like look Um, we don't have a voice Can you help us have one and then I kind of was like man I have this platform Then he said look everyone else calls us the forest people but we call ourselves the forgotten And since he said forgotten and I had wrote that at the top of that paper that vision When he said forgotten Caleb grabbed my shoulder and like my eyes started kind of welling up with tears And uh, I'm just like man. I gotta do something second trip, um I had a one and a half year old that introduced me to the world's water crisis in a brutal way His name's Andy bow and he actually passed away and I was holding them And it just wrecked me just ripped my heart apart, you know tore me open seeing a little like it would be anybody Um, but like Actually, not just reading about it. We're not just seeing it. Oh, that sucks that they're clearing the the moss out of the way with their hands Um, but actually holding the little guy or living it kind of with not living that but like I don't know but just physically being there and having your hand on the shovel digging the grave and just like feeling like Man, I in flashing back to my world, you know flashing back to my world where I can take a piss in the clean water I can give it to my dog. I can water my lawn with it You know, there's got to be some sort of answer and solution to this problem There's got to be a way we can put the put the tools in the hands of the people that need it the most So it sounds like it started kind of focusing like you knew like I have to do this. This is my purpose and That kind of focused it a little bit like okay water Water's got to be one of the main things to work on. Yeah, and we we started with land Because you can't give someone water if they don't own the land But yeah, it was land water and food and water was it what everything hubbed around now How did you get them land when they didn't have any? And some of them were slaves, right? Like like literal slaves. I mean explain that like what do you mean by that when you say slaves like so worldwide There's an estimated. Well, actually, this is the lower stat that I've seen now, but it's supposedly gone up in recent years Um, there's 27 million slaves on planet earth unbelievable I saw that on your TED talk that's fucking insane. That's bro. Just absolutely more than ever in human history Walking the earth, which there's a bigger population. Sure, but but um, but there's just nuts And and it's so like hidden and in the dark and like Just like the world's water crisis where 1.5 million children every year under the age of five Die just because they don't have clean water 1.5 million and that's like I think 800 a day just because of diarrhea I like actually die from diarrhea and then 2,350 kids every day die from the malnutrition That they have from the water and born disease because they live in places where there's normally not water There's not an abundance of food But the food that they do have is just running right through them. They don't they are not able to absorb the nutrients from the food Um, and so it was just absolutely crazy. So with the pygmies, though The average or so there's an estimated 200 to 600, uh, pygmies in Congo That's the highest population of them there There's some in Rwanda and Uganda and Burundi and Cameroon and Central Africa Republic But the highest density population is in Congo And but pretty much all of them are are enslaved To some sort of degree some by rebel groups that are throwing them down into the golden diamond and coltan mines Which Congo is the richest country on the planet and minerals. It's where we got the uranium for the world war two bombs It's it's where just everything. I mean, it's the richest country on the planet by far But on the human index development index, they are the poorest least developed nation and so, uh, it's just a wild place where um But so there's the extreme kinds of levels of slavery, but then there's also ones where three or four generations ago it was worse um, and But now their slave masters kind of take care of them in ways of like Giving them the scraps of food or giving them two or three bananas for a full day's labor from sun up to sundown Um, that's more the mild where they work for them because they don't have any land rights Because they used to be able to hunt and gather and completely So the slave they used to have almost an upper hand or at least it was a symbiotic relationship where The pygmies and the makapala the non pygmies. Um, there's over 200 tribes in Congo So we just say the non pygmies that are live near them. Uh, they They were growing the corn and rice and beans and the pygmies were hunting and gathering and getting the meat And and the rare fruits and vegetables and they were able to come and trade um But eventually with deforestation taking off and the introduction of like the elect or mechanized like uh, uh chainsaws um, it started making it Basically impossible for them to trade anymore They needed to keep all the meat they got because with when I've been there and the trees are falling Sometimes it sounds like thunder is rolling through the forest, but there's no rain It's these trees that are falling and so that makes the animal scared and skittish and run away to where it's really hard for them To hunt and gather and provide for themselves now, too Where it's basically impossible for them to sustain themselves because of how hard it is to hunt now nowadays And so because of that they may were made even more vulnerable um, then the vulnerable other people living in poverty right next to them, but their slave masters now we've seen a Uh a working relationship with 10 different villages. We've drilled 62 wells um there for all different communities But 10 uh that we've worked with both sides the the slave masters and the slaves and which we'd say former now Where we worked with on the government level the local state and uh national level to get them land back for themselves where they own it It's not fight for the forgotten's land. It's not water four's land It's their land which is the strongest thing in congo courts. And so we've gotten them back 3000 acres of land Wow, and uh what's been really great is working with both sides. So yeah, I was gonna say how did you get them land? How did that work out? So some came from the government, uh, but that was the smaller actually we wanted to truly work with the community So we go into a community we cast the vision and if they catch it Where it's like, hey, we want to work with you We want to sit down and that's what we always do is sit down and listen We call it campfire university where they take us to school Around the campfire and and teach us everything and tell us, you know, the struggles of their community So that way we don't have this like cookie cutter going to do a new village and saying Oh, we already know we've been to this place. So we know all the problems here in this this place too You gotta sit there and listen and learn and uh So when we do that though, what we found is that in some of these areas where the slave masters have It's the third or fourth generation, you know, they inherited their slaves and their families and Um, they're making a dollar to a dollar 25 per day the slave masters The average that's the average income, uh of 74 million people in congo. Um, and so It's it's almost become a burden to have to have these Uh people underneath to take care of and so um, but they can't take care of themselves And it's their slaves they inherited and their father owned them and their grandfather owned them And so they own them and it's like a crazy dynamic. Isn't that nuts? Yeah It's so crazy that it's happening today in this world But it's like how can we we call it to mica pimoja? In swahili, how can we work together for good? And so the but but the good of all people and I think that's good business, right? Everyone wins Um, it's not about like, hey, I'm gonna Get you know, we're gonna work out this deal, but I'm actually getting the better end of the bargain And and you're gonna you're gonna be bitter afterwards It's like, no, how do we do this in a way that it's win-win-win for everybody the slave masters technically You know, maybe losing um Their people but in a way that like they have asked for now After the first couple villages and babofi mabakulu People were coming to us saying we want to work out the same kind of deal you guys did with them So it's all in the the net the government level where everyone's signing it its contracts. It's handwritten It's typed out everyone signatures on it and their thumb prints. So no one can say that they they didn't sign it um But at the same time When they when we buy the land from their masters, they're benefiting financially Because they're selling the land and that's going to help their family It's helping the pygmies because they get land and that's helping their family Um, and then we bring in water and so I told you guys about andy bow But it also happened with a little guy named babo and then a little girl named siku um that I've been part of the the the funerals of and But then I've also been to five or seven others Um and half of those are probably from the makapala the non pygmy kids They don't have access to clean water at all And so they're dying of the same diseases that the pygmies are and none of them have access to clean water And their little girls aren't able to go to school or their wives are having to go on this two or three trips a day Uh spinning hours hauling this and they're next killing them from those water walks And their stomachs constantly filled of parasites and worms Um and so to know that we can come in and work together so that we buy back the land and and and kind of restore a good Relationship among the youtube people and not that there was ever even being the slave master sometimes they had Healthier relationships with the people. Um, this is kind of how that community worked, you know Some of this I wouldn't say they're evil people now The ones that are the rebel groups that are holding guns to them that are putting them in chains Yeah, we haven't been able to help make an impact there Um, but where we can work with both sides It's been I'm making this really long. Sorry, but it's not right man keep going. It's it's uh, it's hard to kind of Share the whole dynamic. That's why there had to be a book. That's why now There's a a two hour feature link documentary coming out. Um, hopefully at sundance this next year Telling the story and having them tell the story. So it's not like me trying to do it It's them having their own voice if that makes sense And in sharing that, you know, we had a slave master on camera crying with us saying how Not not crying but having a tear that he wiped and uh saying that, um You know, this this helped the community so much because he ran the local clinic He was the chief and he ran the local clinic and his hospital there 87 on average for three years were seen at his clinic just because of waterborne disease when we came in and we we Uh, we lifted the burden with the land deals then of the water that clinic the very next year was 10 percent So from 87 percent waterborne disease down to 10 percent Then we brought in the wash program water and sanitation hygiene helped them dig latrines Put up hand washing stations Now we're starting a soap production facility because they have all the raw natural materials there, but uh, But the only thing only soap I've ever seen sold in Congo and that people ever use Is this car washing soap that's coming from either china or india and it's packed full of chemicals I've used it plenty of times and it leaves your skin raw afterwards Or at least there's like the first couple times for sure until your body kind of gets used to it And uh, so we're able to create jobs in that way And so it's helping the community saying hey, we want you guys to lead the way with this We want to truly empower you want to create an opportunity and um In the proof in the pudding for me was being there for you a full year Um, and then having to step back step out that was a hard step Like but I had to say if this thing is dependent on me. It's going to fail anyways So I need to step back and see these guys doing it for themselves and they need to know that this is their Business, this is their opportunity to do good. They own it. They run it Um, and we're going to continue to to pour into them invest into them bring the right trainers the water The geo hydrologists, uh, the the engineers the people to continue to teach them in their craft where they're going to get better Um, but yeah the next year they I was there for the first 13 the next year They did 20 wells without me there. Uh, and then this last year they did 29 new water wells Um, took the number up to 62. Uh, we have 18 full-time staff It's their job to be well drillers. They spent 301 days Teaching the wash program in these different communities. Uh, that we've drilled the wells And now our top two guys are able to go out. They started a new team in Cameroon Which isn't even the country. It's a different country But they went to help teach others how to drill wells and see our leon In Malawi and then, uh, they've gone and received training from the other water four teams Because water four the non-profit fight for the Friatins initiative underneath they have 375 people in the country of Africa the or sorry continent of Africa and uh, 16 different african nations That are all nationals. Um, that are drilling wells. So over 40 well drilling teams last year they drilled 690 wells Served 172,000 people and it was all the people in the countries serving their own countrymen Instead of having to wait for us to come do it for them. It's a real movement that's happening. Yeah. Yeah, it's been so cool Well, there's a couple of things that uh, I really stand out to me one is, you know, when you talk about how when westerners Go in and and donate and give things like shoes and food That they're confusing intention many times for result And you know in the 80s there was a huge push to feed, uh, you know people in the in the continent of africa and what happened is we gave them Tons and tons of food and aid And then what the unintended consequence of it was and of course it was all good intention But the unintended consequence was You had then generations of people coming up who didn't know how to farm And became like the teach a man a fish thing they became very incredibly dependent on On this aid and actually ended up in you know, and sometimes in you know, worse situations Yeah, absolutely and the way you're doing it is very different And one of the things that you're doing that's very different which requires a tremendous amount of empathy compassion but also of objective intelligence is It's easy It would be very easy for anybody for me to go in and be like slaves slave masters slave masters. You guys are bad You know screw you guys. We're not working with you. We're gonna help these oppressed people and in fact we're gonna punish these slave masters Which feels just feels justified. You feel like there's justice behind it But is that really a long-term? Are you really accomplishing because once I leave, you know now like you said You're not getting this win-win and could that cause more problems? Could that cause more war and that kind of stuff Yeah, I think I think um what I learned from my team is A team of guys there right there. Honestly, there's so much better than I am at this and Like they're the engine and I got to be the spark plug and now I get to go back and Kind of fill that engine back up with some fuel and and hopefully that's encouragement and different stuff but they but they're the ones putting it into action and just being able to be there and uh And and and like they said, you know, if we try to love one side and hate the other It's only gonna end up hurting the people that we're really trying to love and help And so we got to love both sides. We got to help them both equally. They're the same community And so how do you draw this line in between them and and say we're gonna help you But we're not gonna help you we're gonna exclude you and we're gonna include you and so it's uh, it's a really um I honestly think it's slower. It's much slower the process um but But the impact you get to see it and you get to feel it and you get to hear it and um And i'm honestly not needed for this thing anymore I get to be a part of it and um, it's almost like I went this might sound really cheesy But it feels like I went from kind of a leader in it To then now it's my job to be the cheerleader and uh and just cheer them on and encourage them and uh be like because because the tough thing is that um You're so right about I think in the 80s Like you're saying, um There was a song I think that was the rally Wasn't it we are the world? Something like that And then I think there was lyrics in that song that said, um Like it's where nothing ever grows And it's where no river ever flows and it's like that is not africa Like at all there are there's an enile river there There's the congo river the longest ones and the deepest most powerful rivers that could if there was a big enough like Electric dam inside of that thing Um, it would it would it could light up the world most likely But at least congo at least africa and and you drop I mean you spit a seed in the rainforest It's gonna grow like it it's so fertile, but the the outside aid Um Has impacts so negatively that everywhere I walk there's you go to the market to buy rice It all says on there american made rice or america or china india then these government like uh They have these government subsidies and these big farms that like they they get paid by the government To produce all this food to just go drop it there for free And so what does that do to that local economy there? That they it was there through there were the farmers Well, people don't sell it what people don't realize is many times the way aid works You know big government aid is that it it goes from the poor people of a rich country Uh, because we get many times taxed for it. Uh, for example, um to the rich people of the poor country So you've got the owners of these big Farms and stuff getting these massive government subsidies Uh that came from a rich country And then they give you know, they do the free stuff and you don't have the distribution isn't as efficient or effective As when there's a market-based economy there Uh, you get a lot of people who then There is no way to compete with that How do you how do you create a business and compete with something that's free you can't and so it depresses Uh, you know progress in many ways and I don't want to discourage anybody by the way for for from giving to charities and stuff I just think it's important people See it so that we can be as effective as possible and then you even said it like The congo is one of the if not the most mineral rich places in the world The problem isn't that they lack uh resources because that's what a lot of people think like oh, they just need Resources just give them a bunch of resources The problem many times is that there's just There are There isn't the ability to have these open markets There isn't these opportunities for people to own property and to build For themselves and what you're doing when you're teaching people how to build these wells and getting them involved Is that's a spiraling effect like now that you started there and it's grown. It's only grown On its own. Yeah, it's got to be really exciting to see the potential or the possibilities of where this continues to go Oh my goodness. I mean it's been It's it's blown my mind because we went from saying, okay We're going to go deep into the rainforest with these water wells and we need something practical and sustainable We can't buy a $500,000 to a million dollar drilling rig and drive over these bridges that collapse so often and go over these terrible roads they're just going to beat The the vehicle beyond recognition and and then we can't even drive it into the rainforest So the mud or the trees are all in the way and we can't clear a road So we got to be able to hike this stuff in and so it's all manual drilling It's all augers and chisels and rock breakers and it can take 10 days 16 days To complete a well. It's the hardest work. I've ever been a part of And we had we had several guys quit at first because we weren't we we were in a tough geological area And we were beginners and this was like we were like white belts and this was like black belt level stuff And uh, good analogy. Yeah, and so um Anyways, it was it was tough. So some guys quit on us and and finding the right people is the toughest part But there's so many good people They're waiting for an opportunity because there aren't many Um, and so you you get those people in and people are a greatest resource with the good hearts and the good In the right place, uh in the right mindset and then empower them Yeah, where we just got our first mechanized rig, which we're not going to stop the manual drilling at all But the mechanized rig that came across on a river, uh in three canoes of $50,000 Drilling rig. We were like, please don't sink. Please But it made it safely and now they're going to be able to go punch some 300 foot deep holes in the ground In areas that communities are able to buy themselves And so it's not even giving the wells away. They're looking for private contracts So that the way they're becoming so self-sustainable that they don't need us Um, they're already getting close to 50 self-funded in the own country son of a bitch. I love this. I know Oh man, and then it's going to become a So world water day Is march 22nd water four is doing this thing Where it's going to be really awesome where uh, we're building a water tower or water kiosk in this community That's tomorrow, huh? Yeah, that's tomorrow. Yeah, absolutely tomorrow and we're doing this campaign. It's we're you know, we're trying to raise $50,000 for this Uh water tower and the reason being is that water tower in this uh community one They're drinking from the same place that they're cattle. They're they're a bunch of uh uh, you know, they're heard a hurting tribe and so, um hurting and hurting I guess but uh they I mean there's Cow patties are right there in the water right beside the water and uh And the kids are getting real sick and we're going to put up this water tower So that way they come and they buy the water because I mean water you're paying everywhere we you use water here you're pretty much paying for it and so, um There we're into it for like five cents or five shillings per jerry can so for 20 liters five gallons You pay five cents basically a nickel And that right there is going to go back into the community It's going to help fund a school and it's going to help fund more wells And so we're trying to create these things and we're going to do that model from After we go and do it in rwanda, which we've already done it in kina, ethopia and sierra leone successfully to where those things are already Uh producing multiple wells per year those water kiosk So now we're going to do that in the congo too to where we're just trying to find every solution possible I mean eventually in two years from now, we're going to be doing water taps and uh people's homes Hopefully wow close those water towers to where they uh, you know to where the people that do in africa It's either you are incredibly extremely rich or you are incredibly extremely poor There is no middle ground and that like it means just it's two different worlds and spectrums and so for those people that have The money we need to be able to say hey, we got a we got an answer for you You want uh, you want uh running water you want a shower you want, you know sink and all this But with clean water because the only thing they have right now if they do have something coming in Is dirty water even the really rich people and so um Yeah, trying to find those solutions to say hey, we have this service for you But whenever we get that we're we're going to do something good with it And so uh, it's just been so cool to see the team coming up with it Brainstorming casting the visions getting in front of a big whiteboard or chalkboard and just start drawing up the big dreams and visions What's it like working with the the governments there the local governments and the is it is that is that tough? Yes at well at first um Oh, it was so tough at first because uh, they wanted us to pay a $1,500 tax every time we drilled a well Um saying that's congo's water. It's not your water. Yeah, leave it there. Nobody can use it. But when you get it Yeah, you gotta pay us. Yeah. How nice is that? Yeah, right? It's so nuts. Um, it's on the president who has never even elected On his agenda water is number one Um, I think it's only around 1 of 74 million people Have clean water there in congo And so uh, we want we want to change that and I think that this model we can We can knock out the world's water crisis in our lifetime Like we have the tools technology and the people are there in the communities They're going to be more passionate about it than I ever could be they know the day in day out struggle They've lost family because of it And they're they're suffering because of it and so but the government we went and had to go through some appeals and uh Go to court and fight them. Then we got them down to $750 the next time we went to court and then uh, Luckily, we'd never paid any of these And then um, we went back as a third time had a great lawyer from from there in the congo And he really fought for us hard saying this is the president's number one agenda Why put it on the politics of it all? Uh-huh. Yeah, absolutely. He was so great at it And uh, now it went to where they dropped it down to zero Um, and now the governor of that state in nituri Um, he has fully backed us sponsored us supported us that ass We basically have free reign of the region. Uh, of course the people love it, man Now you gotta do it, buddy, or you're gonna get elected Yeah, absolutely. And I think he's uh, I mean he saw that part for sure. Um that I better sponsor this And and stop trying to to to take away from it But but that's what they get used to where whenever these big NGOs come in with an unlimited amount of uh resources and funds and Millions or billions of dollars to spend and then they also have a quota and donors Like that's the number one thing on those NGO's agendas is and I I hate to say it and hopefully it's not They have good intentions. They really want to help the people But really they have to please the donor more than they have to please the people in the There so they have to crank out a bunch of tally marks and Meet the expectations and quotas so they don't have time to To actually have relationships with the people So the government the anyone that sees those organizations coming in they try to get whatever they can get out of them Yeah, you don't yeah people don't realize just how much um, some of these people in power these government officials are Benefit from some of these foreign You know charities and donations because they come in and they say they come in and we've got, you know Five million dollars to donate to whatever Well, they're like, oh cool We're gonna we're gonna get like a million of that or whatever and then the rest we're gonna divvied up amongst some of these people in power and landowners or whatever and um, it's it's it sucks because It's not doing what it's intended to do Many times. Yeah, it's a it's a kind of a horrible situation and you know you were talking about how You know us as americans as wealthy americans when we look at these situations when we look at these At these charities and helping these people What and I hate to say this because we're all we all America is one of the most giving countries in the world. It just is if you look at charity We are by far the most charitable nation on earth. Um, we're also one of the wealthiest And but I do think that there's a level of when you look at a people or a region There's a little bit of that I hate to use the word condescending but almost like they can't help themselves We're just gonna take care of them because they can't do it So poor people. Let's just give you the stuff. You're not going to be able to do it on your own Whereas you're not looking at them like that. You're looking at them saying these are very capable Amazing people. They're not, you know beneath me. They don't need me to just give them shit All they need is an opportunity to do it for themselves and it seems to be working spectacularly Yeah, well, thank you for that and that's that's what's been Yeah, I mean it's been so cool because you know After I found some the first four guys on our team They were so rock solid. They were I mean better men than I for sure. I look at those guys as like giants They're incredible dudes and I've learned so much and uh and been encouraged so much and these are guys that you know, I was in their wedding and uh And they're they're some of my best friends and my brothers and uh, and we've Gone to war together like how you develop these relationships with you know My fight team and training partners. We spar together these guys. We've we've been through some really Tough stuff whenever I told you I was digging the grave, but I wasn't digging it alone You know these guys were with me and um and and they've lost family I've seen Met their ants that have scars all over them because they've been hacked up with machetes and actually lived to survive And tell about it So they've been through so many tough stuff And they've risen above it. They've dug deep And they've overcome and so uh being around those people has You know ben jack patrick. I mean these guys. I'm a goo. I'm a goo, which means we are one. We are not different Um and learning from them some incredible things that they live out. You know, they say a swahili proverb is if you want to go fast Go alone, but if you want to go far go together And so they're always wanting to include each other and in us here. We want to be so independent individuals Um, but there you just do life together and it's a community Um, and I love that about the sports world and lifting and everything else like there's these communities this podcast, right? There's an awesome community behind mind pump Uh, but yeah having a community of these guys that are just they're fighting for something so much More than themselves has been awesome. Were you ever putting in some dangerous situations when I mean because you don't necessarily blend in I mean, you're a kind of a target. You're a really big dude with like, you know, blondish orange's hair big beard I mean, yeah, you look like the opposite or just came to the Mighty rod No, it's uh, no, you're right walking through the jungle. I'm sure uh, I look like a vanilla gorilla Or I've had people think I was half literally because we go so remote sometimes because we want to start where it's the worst We're still targeting there And then we come out in the community just try to help fund more of where it's worse But yeah, I've been called half man half lion before Had people run and hide behind trees. Uh, I've had a bow and arrow drawn on me from the distance Because coming in unannounced is something we learned I should we should probably give them a heads up Coming in there for the first time first guy with light skin If they ever meet Yeah, there's been a video that went viral that was on a jimmy kimmel and the today show and stuff of you know The kids seeing a white guy for the first time and No, man, it's but yeah, there's been some dangerous situations from rebel groups I won't get into the situation the instance to protect some others that were involved but uh But yeah, I was in a standoff with like seven or eight guys and there's three or four machine guns aimed at me and uh, um, that was that was uh I'd say trauma. Yeah, for sure traumatized. Was there ever a moment during all of this because uh off air you talked about how You've had malaria twice and some other You know, uh, you've gotten some other illnesses that you wouldn't you wouldn't get if you were just staying here, right? dangerous situations Living in the congo at any moment. Are you thinking like man? I don't know if I can do this or I think i'm done Uh after the first trip um Well during the first trip for sure. Oh, that's when I was thinking this is too too big too tough. I can go home and live my life So you gave that a now the mosquito analogy. I think I think is so great. Absolutely. Oh and after having malaria actually three times now um it uh It yeah, it means a lot more than to me now because uh That's you get it from a mosquito bite and uh, yeah, they say that if you think you're too small to make a difference Try to sleep in a closed room with a mosquito. Yeah, that's a great quote. I love it. Yeah, I love it And it's so true because like uh, well having malaria a mosquito just a little bite um Almost took my life. Yeah, they made that big of a difference where I lost 33 pounds in five days Oh, I was vomiting at the end of it red and green which was blood and bile My suffocates was raw for like two weeks after uh lost my peripheral vision I It sounded like had a bees hive in my ears Like just I don't know why but just constantly sound like had a bees hive and my Fever would spike to 103 something and dropped to 96 and felt like I was on a rocking ship that was like spinning in circles um And man, I would I would say though that after uh That vision and then it actually happening like it's like man. This is something I've got to do dedicate my life to the second time though second trip um being there with Andy bow and and even being part of the funeral like uh How do I say it um Here it's so different like I get culture shock coming back here I don't know. I don't get it there. I'm actually I'm actually homesick for there. I love it I've spent two years there over the last five and uh, just just love it. Um, but But like it seems like relate relationships there have so much more depth to them a lot of times um, and But here whenever death happens and it's so tough. It's so hard um anywhere death is never anything pretty but But in a way, we make it as pretty as possible because there's all the flowers and it's in a really nice place and We all get our best dress and and and we prepare ourselves We try to hold everything all together whenever we go And man that first funeral for Andy bow. I mean it was uh, it was so ugly and painful and in your face and raw and real and um, you know, I When I was holding him the blood came out of his ears and onto my hands and it was just like oh my gosh, you know, I've never seen that before and um And so after that and seeing the pain and and and Committing to them that like I'm gonna try to do something My first promise wasn't to do land or water or food But I was like, hey, I I can I can help tell your story because that was them saying we don't have a voice Can you help us have one? So after that the commitments to it, I would say that the tough stuff just came with the territory And it was like at that point you mean that's it. I'm doing it. I don't care what happens No, I see I see you have a a ring or are you married? Okay How how's your wife sort of been with this whole process of you going out there and visiting were you married before you went? Or is it after that you met uh, we met a month after my first trip And our actual first conversation was about the pygmies and uh In my trip and I was telling I was thinking about this name called fight for the forgotten You know, they told me they're forgotten. I felt that I knew that before and then I'm a fighter Um, so that was our first conversation and she's been completely wholeheartedly supportive ever since and um, because that's how it started our relationship and she's actually lived there for three months Or been there for three months Her first time ever camping is uh, is pictured inside my book. Uh, It's uh twig and leaf hut. Um, she slept on the ground That's her first time camping, period She didn't Yeah, she's from like Dallas Fort Worth city girl, uh, like inside the city and um, her dad tries to dispute that Say, oh no, she grew up camping. They went They went camping at a campsite in a camper a couple of times and had a tv and shower in beds inside the camper Um, so I was like, okay poppa bear. Uh, you're right. She's been camping But but here I'll say like, you know, she for her first time ever camping was there in the forest, uh with the pygmies But but they've fully accepted her in to adopted her in Uh, there's only four people I know of that they've given a uh, a mabuti pygmy name to Um, they've given me the name f a osa mabuti maung bo and you gotta say like that What does that mean f a osa was the first name given to me and that was actually right before any bo And it means the man who loves us. Oh And so I obviously love that one. Um Made me tear up and I wasn't that emotional of a dude until I started going and meeting and seeing You know, it's okay. It's okay to be emotional. It's okay to care. Um, and uh And I mean, yeah, there were men we can be tough, too You know, I still like to fight You know, uh, but but yeah, it's okay. And um and mabuti maung bo is now my fight name Translated, uh, it used to be the viking. Um, but now it's the big pygmy And so that's what everyone calls me. Wow, they'll they'll call you one of them. Yeah the big pygmy Wow Ben his name is omegu omegu, which means we are one. We're in a different and then emily She is lusume kumite li and uh lusume means chosen And kumite li means belongs here and so uh, so they they they love her because um, because I I think there's a difference where There's there's people that come to help and and just give stuff away And normally when that happens, they're staying in a hotel. That's hours and hours away And then they wake up early and they drive out there and they come out there and they They announce their arrival with a parade and they throw a party and they take a bunch of pictures But they never stay. Um, they never, uh, immerse themselves in the culture at least there Uh, because it's extreme circumstances too, you know, like my wife's first night there it is Um, and if you don't have a real reason, uh, probably connection. It's not really like vacation, right? No, it's not vacation, man Um, but but to the people when that happens they say they feel like it's a human safari When people just come in give something and take a bunch of pictures of us and we only see them for a couple hours And they promise they'll come back, but they never do Um, it's it breaks trust. Um, and whenever you come in there and Stay like they stay Learn how to build a hut like they build go out there and collect the leaves like they do Start putting the shingles and walls up through the you know skeleton of twigs that you You're making to this dome sleep on the dirt and get rained on and have roaches climb on you you have to get someone to get a black mamba out of your hut and uh, and uh, this this uh This right there is that little kind of pinkish or whatever star that's a uh, that's on my ankle and um And that was a scorpion that that got me And you know, they got up ran out. Um Got these leaves and or herbs or whatever and pounded them up and That little wet mortar and uh made this paste and put on me So because at that time I started to break out into a fever and my teeth would started to chatter Um, and they put that paste on there to draw out the the poison and venom and so like you you You learn and your experience and you have these stories to tell and they they see you right there And you're almost how would I say it like you're on like eye to eye Level with them. You're not you're not looking down at them in their situation and their poverty. You're you're there to learn Um to live with them So how much of this has changed your your relationships with people back home here now? Like how much do you feel yourself being more mindful or more appreciative of relationships and connections? How's it changed you? Oh, yeah for sure For sure and it's it's also made it it's made it Some relationships so incredibly valuable and then it's made some other relationships I don't this might sound real callous, but but just like hey I want to I want to I want to do life with people that want to do life with me or I want to I want to tell this story I want to I want to try to be mindful and share that man life is so much bigger than what we can get Um, and uh, and I think they're just throwing out another documentary that I liked. It was called minimalism That I just watched you did. Yeah, I just watched it too and had so much great stuff in there and what's What I what I connected that tour related it to was man the pygmies are Are some of the most oppressed and poorest people on planet earth Um They have the least, you know, I've never met a mabuti pygmy that owned a blanket Um, the fires are blanket, uh, they get rained on they have to hover over You know some Some pieces of wood that have a little bit of an inverse still on it to keep their fire going when it when it's raining so bad Um, you know, if they have if they have clothes on their back Um, then they're lucky because uh, because they probably don't have a second change Um, so I mean, I mean, I don't have to keep giving you analogies But it's like it's like but they are also some of the happiest people I've ever met You know telling them my story of depression Um, and telling them my story of addiction were they confused by that? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know that they truly understand what depression is They're looking at you're like, what do you mean? Yeah You're wealthy, right? Yeah, you have a shirt. Yeah, how could you be depressed? You have a shirt, right? Yeah, you come from another another World almost halfway across the world, you know and come see us like what what do you? What do you have to complain about but when I told him that this was really interesting because uh When I told him that I was so depressed because I had actually attempted suicide, um, took a just Ton of pills and uh and drink half a bottle of ever clear and just uh ton of coke and just uh Just was ready to end it, you know, it's luckily woke up um And when I told him I wanted to hurt myself because I was that sad like they were like wait Like they didn't have a real reference for that. They hadn't never heard of someone killing themselves Um, or no at least known of anyone that ever had because they're fighting for their life every day in a sense, right? Yeah, and they were just like well wouldn't this was asked to me Wouldn't hurting you only hurt you like why would why would you do that? It's very simple. You're already running. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um Anyways, it was just like it's like wow, you know, but then but then looking at that documentary got me thinking Man, we're just in this rat race to get stuff You know, just to get stuff and it's like why don't we Have that same kind of drive and tenacity and like wake up early stay up late To have great relationships with people to to make a difference Uh, it's it's a fact. I mean, it's weird, but I mean many of these psychological disorders that we suffer from extreme anxiety Um Depression, you know, a lot of we have terms for a lot of these things a d d a d h d you know A lot of them are are are are modern issue like modern world western society issues and like depression, uh Hasn't gone down as we've become wealthier and I think There's lots of theories as to why but when I meet people like you and I've met Others who seem to be very purpose, you know, they have a purpose rather than trying to um, you know Think of like what they need to have to be their perfect life They just find meaning in what they have, you know, like, okay, so things go bad There's a meaning behind that and this is the purpose rather than no, it has to be this particular way Or i'm not happy Um, that seems to be from what I hear from people the answer seems to be the answer um How much did you have you grown from this experience in that regard? I'm in uh, are you anywhere near the same person? no, I I Uh, a lot of my friends and family like Especially like my mom and dad like, uh From from from being the bullied kid to then the the good athlete they Pretty much couldn't recognize me. Uh, like you lose they said you seem like a different person there And that was probably our best decision we've ever made for you to send you that school get you away from those kids and um, but then yeah, it was actually recently my mom, uh Yeah, kind of a cool emotional time. Uh, she was Filming for the documentary did her interview with the filmmaker and afterwards we went to lunch and She said just I can't even really Like I remember that time and it's so scary when I broke into your place whenever I found all that stuff Whenever I was worried for your life whenever she took the loaded gun and hit it and um And then she's like, I don't even I don't even recognize you like like you seem like a different person And so to have that and I I know what I feel it like even talking about some of those things it's it's been uh I think six years ten months and 16 days. Yeah 16 days that uh That I've just been a different dude and I feel like as I keep leaning in Um to this to fight for the forgotten or just fighting for people um The farther away I get from That depressed uh, and I'm not saying that I'm a like dude. I'm a work in progress. I can Always yeah, absolutely. I'm jacked up. I have times where I have a pity party And then all of a sudden I have to just remind myself like I think that's what sent me into that downward spiral was like I had blinders on All I could see and focus on were my own problems. Uh, that's all I saw. I couldn't see anyone else's uh, it was like I was looking through Uh, I don't know a microscope at my problems But whenever I've leaned back and and been able to take those blinders off open my worldview or perspective Up and and see others and see what what actual true suffering is Um, it's shrunk my problems down to where I might need that Microscope again to even try to find some of them. So it's I mean that's not true But I mean there's I have problems and different things sure and it's and it's none of it It's with a perspective now that you have is and you know, none of it is to trivialize How you felt before or if anybody's feeling that kind of pain But I think uh, when you when you when you step into that uh in that role, I mean It sounds selfish, but uh, you get uh as much as you give like you're going you're helping all these people But you're receiving yeah so much from it and a lot of it is uh, you know helped you on that on that personal and Do you find yourself having? Compassion or at least coming to terms with those kids that bullied the holiday for all because you must have hated them forever I did do you feel different about them now? Do you feel any kind of compassion for them now or do you try to understand them? I almost feel sorry for my feeling Yeah, that's what it's it's felt like and I and I wish them well. I've even seen some of them over the years and uh It had people reach out. I mean, uh After the book came out and after I mean some of those kids have bullied me read my book You know, it's I think it's the third or fourth chapter where they're like, oh man If that must hit home for them. Oh, yeah, and so uh Which I mean is nice that they recognize it now and it looks like their lives have changed and then there's some that One that's still a knucklehead or two and uh one that's put away and another it's still out being a knucklehead um And so but yeah, I think it's it's changed to where it's like man like they just must have had a really rough they were suffering from something too probably a terrible home life which I wouldn't wish on anybody, you know And so uh, how can but how can we so I always go back to the forest has just taught me so much, but it's like How can we go back and just um and think about what's truly important and and Of value and things to actually worry about and then and then things to really put our energy into and so it's been I don't know man. It's just I wish people could uh Could it could could see that stuff, but then at the same time like it's tough for me to encourage that because I want people to um I don't know. I don't want to encourage that kind of tourism at the same time like just go there and see how good you have it Um, but like if you go and there's a real reason and purpose behind it because you're going to empower somebody else Um, but you it's got to be slow and strategic and play the long game You know, I think if everybody just found their purpose, it might not be the same as yours, right? But if everybody found Something that they felt truly driven to do Um, you know a real purpose. I think that would be it that would be the answer and some people's purpose may be Helping animals other people's purpose may be helping others You know with opportunities and business or life or whatever, but when you find that if everybody found that and we're driven in that way Uh, it is uh extremely Liberating, I mean you talked about the bullies for example like You know releasing that that anger towards them or resentment towards them and you know now you feel bad for them And you understand like that's not you just being compassionate because you're supposed to like that's a that's a feeling That is like you lifted that off yourself People don't realize the kind of pain that you carry with that kind of hate and resentment and anger And once you release that it's it's gone. Yeah, and you feel Chains chains fell off or some bricks fell off your back back back and you can and you can breathe Yeah, you know, I mean we work in fitness and a lot of people get motivated to work out because of that That's a huge. I mean every everybody would talk to you know, like You know, why did you start working out? Why did you start training? Oh, I was bullied I was bullied and you can see the ones that haven't let it go And it drives them to do bad things to themselves and their bodies and then those that have released it It's uh, it's it's it's amazing transformative. It's an amazing feeling How often do you go back to visit the the your some of these tribes that you were with? Yeah It's it's starting to get less and less because of The model and method that we're really trying to walk out. That's what I mean. So you're starting to see the self-sustaining model Yeah, yeah, and so the less I'm actually and I'm communicating with our team all the time. Uh, I mean almost on a daily basis Except for whenever they're out there in the field then it's like a weekly basis because they don't have any network or any way to communicate But I go back about once a year now And or at least that's what it's changing into this year Which is tough for me because I love them and want to be there But then I also want them to know that this is theirs and that they don't need me and uh, so but in the first five years Was there for close to two? and one year at one time but just trying to myself mature in a way that um that I can walk this out to where i'm not needed There so much and then maybe I go there one time a year and maybe I go to another place with our team Uh, like whether it's that team in cameroon or another team somewhere else so that we could start up another Uh somewhere else and excellent. Well, I feel like too you're I mean you got the the major ball rolling big time You've created the model and and now you're you're probably better served doing stuff like this now You got a crazy lineup of podcasts that you're about to be on You're gonna get exposed to millions of people that get to hear this story that may have not heard You've got some viral videos on youtube. Yeah, I mean I feel like this now Um now that you've got it going and that I feel like this is just as important You know, I think I think there's two for me at least when I read about and hear about your story Because I was familiar with you before you came on the show There's two things that I really learned from it and one is uh just um Like I like we've like I talked about now several times is finding your purpose And the second thing is the model that you guys are using to help these people and not necessarily the exact model But that whole idea of going in and fine and working with people there In ways that are self sustainable so that you can eventually go That you don't you know, you're not gonna be there all the time and that now they take care of themselves And realizing that they're capable of doing it all they need is just that opportunity to do so They're capable human beings and you need to foster that that first Domino just needs to drop just needs to be tipped over and then the key is probably just figuring out what that first domino Yeah, absolutely. That that that could be the it is the toughest part for sure. Um, and then Yeah, but like you said like this part now, um, man public, uh I mean, it's from the past and everything else and I actually grew up and uh, I had um Speech therapy all the way through elementary school and everything else God, so how hard has this been and get your ted talk to that must have been fucking nerve wracking, dude Absolutely public speaking is my number one fear by far Oh god, I would have doubted much rather getting a cage and fight some guy Put me in there, please Um, because I my handshake armpits all sweat and everything right before I get up there Oh, and that ted talk was uh I was in the it was at warwick university in the uk and uh And they put me in the infirmary the night before because I had an over 103, uh temperature again. They said man, you got a flu Well, that was actually I was going to congo right after that talk Um, and that was my third bout with malaria But it was actually because it uh, that's what it turned into. I did the ted talk on the second day of malaria in my third Oh my god, oh Shit and luckily I went to congo right after because trying to get treated for malaria in the west isn't as easy as getting it And or or as good as getting Treated with malaria where they have it and where the doctors don't work out It did work out well for me, but I actually hadn't I wasn't bit by a mosquito. It was because I just fought um And I had been worn down and my immune system had been shot from The dengue fever and the black water fever. Oh, that was brutal where I didn't urinate for five full days My kidneys were failing and oh Oh, and whenever I finally did like our mic right here. That's just solid black. That's what my urine looked like It's it was freaky. Oh, shit And I think it's like one in it's either one and four one and two people pass that get it Um, and so it was it was brutal, but uh, but yeah, so I don't even know what's telling us to be honest We're just talking about the Speaking in public and yeah the ted talk and what that must have been like for you, man I honestly think that that we can parlay that in this It's the only reason i'm doing it because I because it is that number one fear But we can uh, we can make a real difference sharing the story and sharing that. Hey, it's not about We've actually changed to where we don't take volunteers there Because that's that's not what's the answer It's not the answer to say hey, we have these people that are now employed and have their own job And it's their business and they've now become the black belts or the professionals and let's take over a group full of White belts or amateurs To go there and to drill a well forum And our employees or the guys that it's their job their business. They're the owners not as efficient Yeah, it's not as efficient to say hey, you guys sit and watch us do this Or you teach these so I can take pictures and show that i'm helping out right Or or teach these guys to drill one well for a week or two and then they're never going to do it again Um, so no, but it's it's been really cool to see even even combining the passion that that So the purpose is fight for the friat and and I still have such a huge passion for fighting Um, and it takes the five years off to come back to the sport I which I don't know. There might be one or two other guys that have done that And I don't know how successful it's been after a five-year layoff not doing anything Um, but to be able to that's an eternity viewed when you're when you're a pro fighter. Oh, man It was an athlete period. Yeah Come coming back to the sport was probably the so drilling the wells is the toughest manual labor I've done But toughest physical feet would be after five years two months of zero training. Um To come back in fight and I did it on like a six-week notice, um, wow Well, it was actually I had a 12-week camp planned, but Uh Corruption in the Congo where they're taking my five-year visa away. I had to go back real quick and spend three weeks there Um, and then whenever I was there, uh, that was taking my training camp down to nine weeks Which is still a good amount for a training camp. Um, but then all of a sudden, uh Yeah, they they shrunk the fight time down three weeks. They moved it up three. Wow So then I was in Congo. They're like, hey your fight's been moved up from september 15th or something 20th To august 28th or something like that. So I was like, oh man, I got to get back now Such a testament though to your priorities though because even something that you've talked about being so passionate about fighting And you love to still do that that that still became a priority that because you easily could have just said, uh, Fuck it. I got a fight man. I'm in the middle of my camp and I'm sure everybody would understand Like I mean, I don't think anyone would be like We can't expect him to come back and solve this problem when he's got a fight camp Well, has your motivation has your mood like that internal driving factor when you're fighting Has it changed from when you fought before? Oh Yeah, so now who are you fighting for? Oh them man, uh, and I mean As a fighter you got to be able to fight for yourself too But at the same time like it's it's that is dwarfed by I get to fight for them that I get to My win bonus coming back. I talked with my wife Emily and uh and said, hey babe every time I fight You know, I have this past and I'm going back into this world that is it's putting myself at risk to One to fight but two like to be back in that world that you know Win or lose I had a a reason To either celebrate or to either numb myself right after with the addictions Like I got to surround myself with good people the entire time. I can't be left alone in that world and and yeah, and then um I don't know being able to fight for them and actually even say The win bonus goes to the cause and we get to drill wells every time and my sponsors when they sponsor me They're actually sponsoring them in the congo. So yeah, I've even been a part of a new startup company. That's uh This um, it's called eco survivor the website just launched Ecosurvivor.com excellent and it's this outdoor tech gear company that heard my story that uh already had a Working relationship where they donated to water for they had me come in and speak I was like, you know speaker at an event. I'm like, oh crap Our guy who does like to speak you spend a lot of time speaking Oh man, dude, it's been nuts And I went in there and talked and afterwards they brought me into a room and said hey Justin, this is what we've been thinking about and they had these outdoor lanterns that were so cool And our teams all using them now in the congo and all over uh in those 16 nations And they're testing all the products that we're coming up with that are you know waterproof weather resistant They stand up to the elements really well um bluetooth speakers and uh battery packs and walkie talkies walkie talkies that are battery packs And bluetooth speakers and finding these ways and headlamps and uh flashlights. They're all extremely durable But eco survivor told me it's so cool to see the companies that give back 1 2 percent 3 percent 5 percent But eco survivors doing 50 percent of the brand Back to fight for the forgotten huge man. Um, yeah, they have a team of 40 people working on this And they're gonna support them and then they're gonna support us and so Let's plug that side of him. Yeah, what is it eco survivor? Ecosurvivor.com and what's so cool about it is uh As you go to the website and you'd probably think it's just a a non-profit website Only on the website right now is the lanterns because those are at market already Um, and people can buy them online and then we're going to make a big push on amazon and start releasing products Um as we know that they are Um, they're ready. They're ready to to really stand up to to the conglis rain forest And then so anyone here But it's really cool because the price points are are really affordable for the everyday I don't know adventurer here if that makes sense very cool. How how else can people help? You know with what you're doing. Yeah, so um, I would say because we we just start implementing the hey no more Volunteers and we we've only taken two two people from our staff at water for to congo with me And that's what I love like we're really protecting them there to be able to do it for themselves and so But man spreading the word getting getting that out there When people buy my book from our website fight for the forgotten dot org All the proceeds of that go to the cause. Wow That not on amazon or barns and noble does it do that? But on our website it does And then yeah, people can donate if they want there's that world water day campaign where we are trying To to to get that $50,000 to really change that community in rwanda So that we can also learn from it and do that in the congo As well But man, even a bite-sized amount So that would be like a one-time gift so we could go to world water day At water for and and donate or if someone gave $25 a month Which can be a real sacrifice for some or it could be a few starbucks You know sacrifice that a couple times a day or a couple times a month a couple times a day for some people Yeah, but that changes the lives of 15 people $25 a month over the course of a year that would give people clean water For the rest of their life. We believe because the average water well only lasts 11 months in africa But but we train the locals to repair it And it's affordable and sustainable So the and they have relationships with the communities and they get paid to come back out because we teach the community To put something away to repair it and it's affordable the way that we do it very cool So where do they go for that? Is there a website that they can go? Yeah fight for the forgotten org and there's a donate button And so if you want to give the world water day campaign that would really help it be a huge boost Or if you really want to come I think we're calling it team watermark So make your mark on the water crisis And that's the monthly giving club and when people do that if it's I don't know. It's five or ten dollars. You get like a a keychain and a sticker and like 25 dollars. I think you get a t-shirt Fight for the forgotten t-shirt and then like for 50. I think You get a I'll sign you a book and send you a t-shirt and you get like keychain and sticker and stuff like that So but it really makes an impact man to All I know is that man one dollar a day is what they're living on and 25 dollars goes so far So if you do that every month that that's that's huge We'll definitely make sure so all our listeners know that all the links for all the stuff that we've talked about We'll be in the show notes on the website so you guys can go directly to all these. Yeah Excellent brother. Um, I tell you we get we get the opportunity to meet a lot of really cool people But you've got to be one of the one of the coolest. Uh, there's definitely an energy about you and what you're doing Is powerful what you're doing very very powerful. Um, so, you know That's why we all hugged you when you came in because we knew Some of the stuff you were doing and it's uh, it's hard. It is tough. You know, we talked about being tough guys But it's very difficult to not get emotional hearing some of these stories and what you're doing in the bravery Um, so, I mean just from mind pump that we we appreciate what you're doing out there. Yeah, yeah Thank you so much. Thank you man. Thank you definitely Listen, if you like mind pump, you can leave us a review on itunes also check us out on youtube Mind pump tv. We post a new video every single day. Please go to uh fight for the forgotten dot org Donate to this incredible cause. You know, your money's going to a good place Um, and thanks for listening. 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