 All right, we're back. Sadly, sadly we're back. Seymour and me, Seymour Kazimurski and me were doing a series called Bigotry in America and we're talking about anti-Semitism in the US after Gaza or during Gaza, I should say. Welcome to the show Seymour. Thank you, Jay. On the last show, we talked about what actually happened in the Gaza. But today let's focus a little bit on anti-Semitism because I think people need to understand what the terminology means. How it got all started. And how does it affect everyday people? And to do that, I'd like to give you my version of anti-Semitism. When I was a young boy living in a small town called Senegal de Mol, which is a French town in the province of Quebec, right outside of a vibrant metropolitan city Montreal, there were signs on hotels. And the signs were in English and in French. And they said, no dogs and no Jews allowed. And I understood that. I understood my parents explained that to me. They were Holocaust survivors and they said there was anti-Semitism still even after the World War, World War II, after six million Jews were killed by Hitler, there were still vibrant anti-Semitism in this little French town. When I would go to school, I went to a Protestant school actually, there was no Jewish school there at the time. And I go to this Protestant school and the principal, his name was Jacobson. I'm not afraid to say it. This son of a bitch was anti-Semitic. Every time he would see me, he would pick on me. He would call me into his office for whatever reason and he would take that ruler and wrap my knuckles on it. So I experienced anti-Semitism and I want the audience to know, I want people to know, it's a very, very personal issue. As it did it start with Seymour Kazimorski or World War II, no. Anti-Semitism has been around for hundreds of years. If people watch anything or realize what happened in the history of the world and they go back to the pharaohs, they go back to modern times in the 1400s, 1500s, 1800s, I could go on for an hour and a half and giving you examples of anti-Semitism. But it's a world problem that has been here forever. That's the true definition. How did it start, Seymour? It's an odd phenomenon. Just this one group of stiff-necked people and they get picked on for hundreds, even thousands of years. Why? It's called a common cause, Jerry. When you look at somebody who has something that you don't have and you want it and you can't get it, they are a bad guy. And that has really happened to Jews over the centuries. Look at what's going on today between Israel and the Arab. Look what's going on in Hitler times. Why did he use the Jews as a scapegoat? Ask yourself that because they had more than a lot of the other German citizens. And because they had more, he was able to say, the reason that you are the way you are today is because of the Jews. And of course, he used every name in the book to describe them. They were maggots, they stole things, they used their blood to make matzah, things like that. It was a horrible, horrible time. Jews traditionally have been the natural scapegoats. You think England was easy? You think Canada was great? Don't you remember that they refused to allow Jews to come in? Why? Poland, Hungary, it's a world problem, Jerry. It's not a problem just for Gaza and Israel. It's a world problem. And it's something that you and I and everybody else have to stand up and say, what are we going to do about it? Now, I have a personal theory that it started. I don't think it existed, per se, before the era of Christ. And somehow, the Catholic Church, as it spread, as it spread its dogma, its culture, the Jews were baked into that. They were the people that killed Christ. That's not true, Jerry. That's not true. The Jews did not kill Christ. But anyway, back here. It's not true, but there's a lot of untruses around these days. And the whole story of Judas and that carried on and as Catholicism and Christianity flowed through Europe, it was inherent in that. So it may not have created anti-Semitism right away, but it was a kind of an argo plate. It was an environment in which anti-Semitism could grow and find the legs. And it did. By 1492, they were doing the Inquisition and so forth. And it gives you an idea about how this thing had grown all around Europe. But here's the thing. We've had times of tremendous anti-Semitism, unbelievable anti-Semitism, to wit the Holocaust. That was the worst to date. There had been a lot of programs and violent anti-Semitic episodes up to that point, but it was all small stuff compared to the Holocaust. Since the Holocaust, anti-Semitism has decreased. And probably because people in general say, my God, six million people were killed, we can't continue to do that. And it declined in the United States and the United States became a relatively peaceful place. And if there was anti-Semitism, it was a kind of anti-Semitism that you experience at the country club, but not on the streets, not with violence, not with murder and destruction and arson and what have you. But during the Trump administration, Seymour, it all came back, roaring back. And it's not the only racist thing that has come back during the Trump administration. You can think of African-American racism, you can think of Asian racism, you can think of LGBTQ racism, all that. It's all this kind of divisive this. Vladimir Putin would be happy to see all the divisiveness in our country. He's probably happy to see anti-Semitism. But if you look at the newspaper in the last week or so, just as the Gaza event was winding down, you see anti-Semitism in pretty much all major American cities. Sometimes it's breaking windows and sometimes it's yelling out of cars and sometimes it's beating people up on the street. I don't think there's been any murders yet, but it wouldn't surprise me. And it seems to be getting worse in terms of the personal security of the Jewish person and institution. Can you wear a yamaka on your head these days? Can you put a, you know, a Mizzuzza on your doorpost without thinking, gee whiz, is this gonna get me in trouble? Can you go to school on Saturday? Is this gonna get me in trouble? I'm thinking that it's never been like this in my lifetime. And I grew up in New York, I grew up in the melting pot, whatever, lots of different, you know, racial, cultural, religious groups all living together. And there was a certain amount of friction between them, but never like this, never like this. And now we have a loss, a lack, a decline of security. And I don't think that's gonna stop Seymour. I don't think, you know, they said, now they have a coalition government in Israel. And hopefully, you know, that without Netanyahu in charge, things will, you know, be more civil. But bottom line is, I don't think that stops this process. This is a phenomenon, as you say, that has gone on for hundreds, even thousands of years. It's not gonna stop. And it's a great concern right now that it has been flowering out this way. What do we do about it, Jack? That's a big question. We should spend some time on that. Exactly. What do we do about it? People have to understand education is still the key to making sure that people understand what's going on. I personally, I'm a Holocaust lecturer, and I go and I talk to schools throughout the state of Hawaii. My sister's doing something in Canada with not just anti-Semitism, but genocide in general. If people are willing to put the effort out to teach, to educate, to help people understand what anti-Semitism is, then they'll understand that it's wrong. And it's not the right way to live a life. You know, Seymour, you have been doing that for as long as I know you. I have seen you when I have taped you. You're talking about the Holocaust. Very, very powerful discussions, very powerful, you know, footage and photographs that you show and powerful stories that you tell. But, you know, and there's a certain amount of benefit to the kids who listen. But I could wipe that out in 10 minutes with a badly framed news story on cable TV. Yeah. And that happens. Yeah. Social media, cable TVJ, that is where they sell news with negativity. Negativity is the key to how they want to get their rating. So if they can sell blood, they will get better news. It's a horrible situation. Social media, CNNs, Foxes, all these guys have one thing in common. We need to raise our rating. How do we raise our rating? And one point right now is anti-Semitism is hot. So they're showing a lot of it. BLM is supporting the Palestinians today. Everybody, what's that is? Tell everybody would be a preference matter you're talking about. Right. But you're talking about BTS. No, no. Well, you know, to me, Jay, the ability of groups to use the Palestinian issue against Israel is also a form of anti-Semitism because they don't want to understand the totality of the situation in Israel. They don't want to understand that 4,000 rockets were sent over Israel, 4,000 rockets to kill indiscriminately. Does that ring a bell? That word indiscriminate is like Hitler, indiscriminately. They just wanted to kill as many Jews as they could. What does Israel do to retaliate? So they send their rockets over Gaza, but what do they do? They make sure that they tell them before they send the rockets, get out of your house, get out of your domicile, get out of your business, because we know that you're housing Hamas rockets there or Hamas fighters there. So the event in the news is, look what Israel did. They killed hundreds of Palestinians. Yes, they did. They could have killed thousands. They could have wiped out all of the Palestinians. But no, morally, Israel is much more responsible than Hamas. Hamas has no morality whatsoever. And that in itself gives us the essence of anti-Semitism. If you don't want to allow people to live next to you as a human being, you are, and I'm talking Jews against non-Jews, you are anti-Semitic. And it's a horrible situation that we as Jews and people in general have to stand up for. Jay, I have as many non-Jewish friends who believe in what I'm saying right now as I do Jewish friends. I have teachers in schools that beg me to come and do Zoom lectures to their students because they understand how important it is to teach that the Holocaust was the biggest anti-Semitic event in history. And why is that important? Well, you're only reaching a certain number of people when you give your lectures, when you talk to your friends and that's not enough to stop this. I agree. Because right now anti-Semitism has attached itself to both the left and the right. Going back to Charlottesville, Trump said some of the anti-Semites, they're nice people too. And the whole thing about right supremacy and the extreme right and attacking the Capitol with weapons and this and that. And then at the same time, you have a, and so in Congress, the GOP apparently likes Israel because Trump likes Israel, I suppose, or did like it. The GOP is not helping because they're conflicted about this white supremacy thing. And on the other side, you have the liberals, the activists, the cause-driven community that attach also to anti-Semitism. You're talking about the AOC, Jay. You're talking about- I am talking about AOC. You're talking about a lot of Democrats who I respect and I love as an independent. I like both sides or things I don't like about both sides. I don't like a lot of things about what Israel does too, just for clarification purposes. But when you get people in Congress like the AOC who are truly diehard anti-Semitic, my God, and they start convincing their constituents about what's going on in the world according to them, we're in trouble, Jay. It's not good. How about a shout out for Bernie Sanders, who's Jewish in Congress, a senator, no less, introducing legislation to cut off funding to Israel? Yeah. I do not understand that and his family is from Europe, just like yours and mine. So really extraordinary that he would be doing taking affirmative action to injure, to damage, to undercut the relationship with Israel, which is the only Democratic country in the Middle East. Sorry. The only- That's how it was set up, Jay. It was set up by the world, by the United Nations, to be a home for people who did not have a home. And Jewish people were able to go there and set it up. But you know, today there's a coalition of Arabs that are part of the new political structure in Israel. Today. This just happened today. I know, the coalition includes Arabs. Because that is correct. And that's the way- It's turning more democratic and out of 9 million people, some 3 million are Israeli Arabs who participate in the economy, who are doctors and lawyers and entrepreneurs. We don't hear about that. Well, we won't hear about it because it's against this negative issue that is out there about anti-Semitism and anti-Israel. Don't forget, anti-Semitism and anti-Israel are really two different issues that we have to discuss. Anti-Israel, people don't like it because they feel that what they're doing to the Palestinians is terrible. If they don't understand the whole story, I can't help them. But anti-Semitism is something that everybody should understand because it's been around for hundreds and, as you say, thousands of years. I think they're inextricably intertwined, Seymour. If you're anti-Israel, you're really saying you don't like the Jewish people. And I feel that one and the other, they're really all the same. It may not be in the same degree, but it's all just an expression of anti-Semitism. So back to the question, what can we do? What can we do to deal with this? It's not only a perception of what's going on with the raw meat and the news in Israel. That's gonna happen again and again. Problem is it ratchets up the hate and we have plenty of hate. We have hate and violence now in America, in America. This is unbelievable. My parents told me this, that I was lucky to be born in this country because this is the best country in the world. And now I'm wondering, there was a little piece in the New York Times story about one family with all the risk in Israel, they're planning to move to Israel. At least in Israel, you don't have anti-Semitism the way you're having it now in the United States. So I agree with you. We cannot do Mayer Kahane and go violent on the street with baseball bats. That's not a good idea. We have to speak on it. We have to get into the media on it. We have to straighten everybody out as to the facts. You do that, but you're one of, you're a small fraction and think tech does. That'd be simply because it's the truth and we like truth. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people in this country don't like truth and they enjoy accepting the big lie. In my impression of it, they like accepting the big lie because it makes them feel good. It makes them feel they're part of a power group. It makes them feel they're taking a message and living with this message that gives them some kind of gratification but they know in their hearts it's a lie. That's why I also think people who are anti-Semitic know that it's wrong. They know it's a lie. And they continue to do it. Yes, you're right, but we have to get back to what do we do, right? What do we do? If we continue to speak, if we continue to educate, if we continue to have people come out and say that is not true. Anti-Semitism is a horrible thing that we as people have to change. We as citizens of the world have to do it. Not just me and you, Jay, but our Congress, our Senate, world leaders. It's not easy, Jay, because anti-Semitism has been around for so long. Every time, and you know, I travel to Germany quite a bit for my business. When I go to Germany and my wife, she's amazed. Sue always says, do you feel it today? And that's that feeling that I get on the back of my neck when I'm riding in a taxi in Munich or in Berlin. And I still get the feeling it's there. And what do we find out? Now the neo-Nazis in Germany are stronger and stronger than ever. There's a neo-Nazi party in Germany. What do you think their platform is, Jay? Get rid of the Jews, anti-Semitism. An actual platform, an actual party that is there to make sure that Jews are blamed for everything that's wrong in their country. Not good. We need to stand up, but it's not going to be easy. It's going to be so difficult because you and I are just, as you said before, we do our part, but it's not enough. And I don't know if we'll get leaders in the world who are going to want to do it. It's going to be tough. Very tough. Well, let's just look at options. I always feel that you have to look at options. That may not all be the best option, but at least to look at what the possibilities are and maybe jump off that somehow. So one is to write on the internet, to write on Twitter and Facebook, to write a blog, to have a website and to just keep working on it. The second thing is to go into the more popular media, like streaming, for example, with Think Tech or broadcasting on network media or cable media. And do shows, whether it be fiction or nonfiction, just raise the issue. And I guess the third is, it's not necessarily the same priority, but the college campuses, that's what Hitler did. He went in and formed the Hitler Youth and these kids were in their preteens and teens and they loved what he offered them. And by the time they got to be fighting age, they were completely Hitlerized and anti-Semitic. Of course. And so- Jay, that's still happening, Jay. I gave a lecture at UH, University of Hawaii right here and I gave it to the political science class and there's a large auditorium, three, 400 kids there. And in the back of the class, there was two or three guys who were pretty rowdy and at the end of it, I always have a Q and A. And these two guys, I said, does anybody have any questions that they'd like to bring up? And a few people had a lot of interesting questions about, because I tell the story of my mother in the Holocaust, as you know, and they wanted to know about our relationship with Germans now, do we still hate Germans, all this kind of stuff. And then this one guy in the back says, this thing never happened. This thing is just a propaganda thing that Israel has put together that the world is using to show that Jews were killed. And I was just about to answer. I was just about to open my mouth because I've heard this before. And all of a sudden, two girls in the front row, they were maybe 20, 21 years old, they stood up, Jay. And this is the key. They stood up and argued with those guys. I didn't have to argue. They stood up and they said, you don't know what you're talking about. This happened. This is all factual and so on and so forth. And you see, that's the key. The message mustn't come just from you and me and people like us, because we have a need to be able to try to fix the problem that's there. It's gotta be from everybody. It's gotta be people standing up and saying, you know what, we have to help to make sure that anti-Semitism doesn't grow and maybe even gets back down to a simmering boiling pot. Another option to consider, I'm incentivized by what you were saying, is running for office and becoming a voice in some legislative organization and being a watchdog. That goes from the neighborhood board to Congress all the way. So if I, I don't know, maybe these days you could even run on an anti-hate platform and say, I'm gonna oppose hate, any form of hate, I'm on it and I'm gonna do what I can. So when AOC gets up in Congress and makes an anti-Semitic remark, there should be five people that stand up and say, you don't know what you're talking about. And yeah. Just like those girls. Yes. Just like those girls. That's exactly right. Yeah. Exactly right, Jay. The key to it all, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Well, you got, you know, you have to say it in a way so that it's two hands clapping. And you're more persuasive. You have your playbook worked out. You know, I can tell you that in the BDS, I was talking to this boycott, divest, and sanction, which is all about representing the Palestinians. And I believe it's funded by Hamas or Hezbollah or both or Iran. And it's been going on a long time. And it's very sophisticated. It's in most American college campuses and it has taught a lot of American college kids they should boycott, divest, and sanction from Israel a long time. Exactly. But people believe that stuff and there's no countervailing force. There should be a countervailing rhetoric, if you will, because what happens is it gets to be more brazen and more propaganda-like and filled with lies like about the Holocaust. And nobody says boo about it. You know, it's like- Absolutely correct. Like this video in the street of these guys getting beat up. Everybody ran the other way. Nobody went into the fray. Nobody pulled them apart. Nobody yelled at the people who were doing the beating. And I find that really unacceptable. If you see somebody get at least you could do is shout at them or call the police or in this case, take a video. But there's a lot of things you can do. Running away, hiding, turning your back on it, ignoring it is really not acceptable. That's the way it grows. Jay, you just hit on the most important part of how to fight anti-Semitism. And that is you have to become vocal. You have to be willing to stand up. You have to be willing to do whatever is necessary to help the people who are doing these things, who are doing anti-Semitic rant, help them understand, teach them. They need to understand that what they're doing is wrong. If you can make them understand the difference between right and wrong, then hopefully some of them will be the pebble in the ocean that spreads. Because without that, Jay, we are gonna continue with this. We will continue having a boiling pot, a simmering pot of anti-Semitism for a long, long time. It's just the way life is today. So our job is to try to curb it, to stop it, to do it. You and I will not be successful in it because we don't have a lot of time to be able to do something. But hopefully somebody will. Hopefully people around the world in different countries will say enough is enough. Now we've got to educate. We've got to make it real. Well, we have to understand what motivates people. And I heard a very good piece. It was an academic Zoom meeting a few days ago, which really impressed me. There was a Holocaust survivor there. There was the chief historian of the Holocaust Museum there and there was an academician. And the three of them talked about what led to extremism in Germany and what lessons we could learn in the United States because it runs in parallel these days. Yeah, you keep saying that it's gonna be with us a long time. I'm more concerned than that. I think it's gonna get worse. And the thing is getting worse. So one of the things they talked about, Seymour, like to bounce this off you, is how did it work in Germany when these kids were in Hitler youth? Well, there were three ends, three ends. The first end was need. People in Germany were needy in the sense that their economics had gone south after World War I. And they felt that they were not realizing what they should be realizing. Their lives were not promising in those days. That's the first end need. The second end is narrative. That you have to offer the people who are needy a narrative to where they could get what they want. This is so reminiscent of what's happening in this country. A narrative to say, we're gonna replace all the blacks. We're gonna replace all the Asians. We're gonna replace all the Jews. We're gonna make you at the top. We're gonna do supremacy for you. And in that way, that will give you a narrative that you love. So that'll satisfy your need, at least directly. That's the example of the narrative, the end. And the third end is networking. And networking is happening now. It's happening with the social media. It's happening with Trump and Twitter or was Twitter. It's happening with the ability of people like-minded who can get together and form up and plan the plan attacks on Washington. Plan conspiratorial collections. And that meets the third end. So what we have now is an environment, a landscape that allows for the expansion of anti-black, anti-Asian and anti-Semitic hate more than ever before in our lifetimes in this country. In this country, it's going south. And that means that what we're talking about today, Seymour, it's more emergent than it ever was in this country. It's more important that we look at these options carefully and that we act on them. You're 100% right, Seymour. One of the issues that we have to have, and you touched on it several times now, is the education process of how people get to be the way they are. How does somebody become anti-Semitic? Your parents, perhaps are anti-Semitic and they teach you to hate Jews. I mean, I couldn't believe growing up as a kid in SeneGath, how many people hated Jews? I would go to school and one day at the end of the school day, we were playing some sports and this guy comes up to me, grabs me by the neck and he said, and I don't wanna tell you what moji means because you couldn't air it, but it's an expletive. And he said, and then he took me, he took my school bag, he hit me, he tried to beat me up and all that stuff. And who came to my rescue? My brother and he took care of this guy. And at that point in time, I thought it was over. I got home, Jay, and my father gets a call from the police chief and the police chief says that your son beat up somebody at the school. And we had to explain our position as to why it happened. Jay, my brother could have gone to jail for what he had done, to try to make things right, to do the right thing is such an important part of our life. And we as individuals, when you said before, you can't run away from something like this. Maybe you can't intervene, but you can shout, you can do things, you can try to make a better life for people, whether it's anti-Semitism, anti-Black, whatever the anti is, you have to get involved. And I'm asking the viewers if they want to get involved, whether it's their Rotary clubs, whether it's teachers, no matter what, by getting involved, we can solve a lot of what's happening in the world today. And that includes the schools. When you look at these schools around the country and you see the presence of BDS, without any countervailing organization to argue with them to equal the playing field, it's a great concern. And this kind of thing happens at UH, telling you now it happens at UH and there is no countervailing organization that can speak to it, that can level the playing field, that can give countervailing arguments. Very great concern. And it means that the people who have on trade at UH, including students, faculty and outsiders who may have some on trade, they should be looking for the problem and they should be dealing with it and they should be arguing against it. The campuses are such a vulnerable place for young minds who can be turned the wrong way. This has happened for years and years, but it's worse now. So we have to look for places where this is happening is what I'm telling you, Seymour. Much more than ever. Much more than ever. Much more than ever. If you look at the college campuses and you look at schools and you understand, we did a show once on bullying, I don't remember how long ago it was, but that is prevalent in schools. Bullying is just the beginning of hatred. It's just the beginning of being able to use a scapegoat for something that's wrong with you. And if we address bullying and we address anti-Semitism and we address this BDS that you're talking about, it'll help all of us live a much better life. It's not easy, Jay. I can only tell you because I see it myself when I go into schools. The teachers who call me are always the same teachers who call me to lecture. There's hundreds of teachers that should be calling. When I go to the military bases, I think you actually came to a military base with me when I did a lecture. When we do lectures to the military bases and we have thousands of soldiers understanding what the Holocaust was, it helps them be better people. And I just think it's so important if we could take that education component and make it something that every school and every university and every college does, we would be able to curb at least a lot of the anti-Semitism that keeps growing, just as you're saying. It's growing every single day. Everybody wants somebody to hate because they're not happy with themselves. Tough. Exactly. So it seems to me that if you run a parallel between what is happening in the United States now after Gaza even before with what happened in Germany and what has happened in other authoritarian developments, I mean, evolutions in history, it starts with the bullying in school as a very young child. It goes to rhetoric that comes out of a playbook, comes out of just standard phraseology, hate phraseology. And then after a while, people are emboldened who start touching and pushing and beating up and going to violence and even murder. And so it's a continuum, you know? And we have to be very concerned about that. One day it's bullying or it's making, you know, silly critical remarks and the next day it's murder. So this is something that must stop. It must stop for, you know, racism. It must stop for anti-Semitism. It must stop for all people who are the other side of the diversity aisle, so to speak. I think the most, sorry, Jay, I think the most important part here is to understand that anti-Semitism starts at a very, very young age and a very young mind, which means when the mind requires some type of affirmation of what they're doing is right, it grows. It's like a mushroom that keeps growing bigger. Once bullying starts, you brought that up. Once bullying begins, anti-Semitism is very easy to come in. Anti-black, anti, whatever all the anti's we have. It's anti-Semitism, if we could work on anti-Semitism, we will be working on a lot of other anti's as well because they all start from one thing and that is the need to hate. And that's very important, we need to teach that. We don't spend enough time working on that. How do we eliminate this need to hate, this need that social media, I mean, did you see all the posts over 5,000 posts on anti-Semitism in just the last week alone? 5,000 posts. I mean, is there that many people that hate Jewish people that a lot of them don't even know Jews, but they like the idea that they can blame Jews because they're unhappy with themselves. Big problem. It starts with that, goes into the network phase, so to speak, and then it goes to organized violence and I think we have to be very concerned about that. So Seymour, I take a lot out of this discussion. I think it's very important for people to have this discussion. I hope somebody listening will realize how important it is and maybe take a primitive action to avoid the evolution of this disintegration of our decency in the country. Absolutely, Jay. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's not a topic that I'd like to discuss. I'd rather talk about some of the other wonderful things that are good about this world, but unfortunately, right now, this is very, very prevalent in your mind and my mind. Many others were extremely worried. Thank you Seymour, Seymour Kazimarski and my old friend distinct that we really appreciate you coming on. Aloha. Aloha.