 Live from Las Vegas, Nevada, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re-invent 2016. Brought to you by AWS and its ecosystem partners. Now, here are your hosts. John Furrier. Back everyone, we are live in Las Vegas for Amazon re-invent, this is SiliconANGLES theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, my co-student minimum. Our next guest is from CA Technologies. We have Mark Khan, principal, product marketing manager and Raj Sundaram, director of product management, CA Technology, Hybrid Cloud. You guys are DevOps guys, so this is a show for you guys. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you so much, super excited to be here. So, Stu and I are both closet, cloud, already DevOps guys. Back when DevOps was not the fashionable thing, it was a small community that grew now, it's full cloud, gone mainstream. DevOps is now the way, the new normal. What do you guys see within CA? How are you guys organized and what are you guys doing specifically? Take a minute to explain what you guys are doing in the hybrid, the DevOps infrastructure side of it. No, no, absolutely. So, at CA, we are part of the DevOps business unit and as part of the sub-unit, what we do is, we're part of the agile infrastructure manager business unit, so covering your networks, your infrastructure, your applications across hybrid IT, hybrid cloud, be it traditional infrastructure or the newer cloud, modern based infrastructure as well, providing you a single set of solutions across networks, applications and infrastructures as well. How do you describe hybrid IT versus hybrid cloud? What's the difference? So, I think a lot of people have different definitions of the term, but I think traditionally hybrid IT means mixture of cloud versus traditional and hybrid cloud could be your private cloud, which is on-prem two at times and a mixture of public cloud as well. But what we are hearing more and more these days is the term multi-cloud as well, right? So, people used to say hybrid cloud a lot more, now people are saying we are multi-cloud, right? So, what are customers talking to you guys about? Because one of the things that we're hearing more and more obviously is the classification of business, that's pretty no-brainer, but in the cloud world, platform as a service, infrastructure, those are kind of moving real fast. You're seeing things like containers and Kubernetes at the top and bottom below. This is kind of a foggy area for customers that they try to figure out and squint through. What are you seeing for the customers' needs? What's their requirements for really operating without disruption? In moving to the cloud, dealing with either true private cloud or just having that environment. What's some of the requirements? So, I think one of the key challenges customers face is usually the development teams want to adopt the newer modern technologies like cloud-based infrastructures, container-based technologies. Docker is a pretty prominent one as well. But then the off-site is trying to catch up with the rest of the stuff too, right? They want to adopt the modern infrastructure, but there's a lot of legacy infrastructure, especially in the enterprise side, that they cannot move right now. So, what they need to do is track into an experience and use a unified toolset that supports their legacy traditional infrastructure, and at the same time supports newer technologies, be it Amazon, be it Docker, containers, on-prem, off-prem, and getting that consistent experience across these different technologies. Raj, we listened to Andy Jassy this morning lay out just a huge number of new features, everything from new compute to the new hybrid models we were talking about, which is, you know, you want to do VMware in the cloud, sure, you want to do serverless on the edge, that's great. Talk to about kind of how you guys fit into the AWS partnership, what products you have, what Amazon services you work with, is that everybody's got kind of the areas that you partner with, the areas that you might compete with, and who knows, tomorrow Amazon might announce something that competes against everyone here, so who tells where you fit? Absolutely, so that's a great question. I think, Umer alluded to this, most of our customers today, they are in the lift and shift phase of cloud migration. So they have a very heavy investment on on-prem capabilities, and they look into the cloud to essentially look at next generation use cases, right? One of the challenges is having a tool that spans that hybrid environment so that they can have better visibility for, with an end-to-end, from an end-to-end perspective, and that's where UIM fits in. We have a very comprehensive AWS monitoring capability, we have had that for a few years. Back in June, we added support for more services. Umer also mentioned Docker and other capabilities as well. So essentially, providing visibility to their entire ecosystem is something that our customers desire, and that is something UIM has strengths in. Great, so that dynamic, we talked about hybrid cloud versus multi-cloud. Amazon has a slightly different view of it. They talked about how, if you want buying power, you should be doing most of your work with them. We've seen the maturation of hybrid cloud. Maybe, can you dig into, what are you seeing from customers? Is it, we said there's my on-prem stuff, there's SaaS, there's public clouds, people are doing things in all of those buckets, but especially public clouds, what's the strategy you're seeing from your customers, what do you hear from them, as they try to sort out this hybrid, multi-cloud world? So I think, let me take some specific use cases here. We have a large pharma customer who has traditionally had a very large on-prem set of capabilities, and they're looking to move their entire workload to AWS. So they started small, experimented, characterized workloads, both on-prem and in the cloud using UIM, to make sure that their end user SLAs, they would be able to meet. And once that experiment was successful, they have since then scaled their migration using Amazon's partner network. But their management tool of choice was able to give them that perspective whatever they did in their past with the on-prem model, they would still be able to meet their end user SLAs when they moved to the cloud. So that's one specific use case. We have other customers who, Andy talked about DR this morning, use the cloud for disaster recovery sort of use cases that they have. They're hot data, resident on-prem, but any archival data they would place in the cloud as well, so that's a third use case. I want to get you guys' thoughts because you guys are in the enterprise market pretty deep. You get a lot of customers. Some are unhappy, some are happy, further along progress bar of the different versions of who's further along on cloud. But one of the things that's consistent is the APIs are going to be big in the cloud. And much people would rather sling APIs between services that might not be something that they have to build. So there's kind of like this app development agile, DevOps, next generation app development, framework where it's like, hey, I'm just going to use that service, why build it, that relies a lot on APIs. What are your thoughts, what are you guys doing in this area? Because this becomes part of a lot of that crossover between DevOps and app development. Your thoughts on what you guys do there with customers and value proposition around how that's developing. So we have a lot of API management tool set as well in the broader CA portfolio, but when you're talking about APIs and integration of services, then what as a business unit we really help you is, is throughout the application life cycle going from dev to test to deployment, we have the right tool set, providing insights into code level, into the infrastructure, be it Docker, be it Amazon, be it on-prem infrastructure. So as you move to the different application life cycles from a performance management point of view, you can monitor across all of these to our holistic portfolio. And it's really important in DevOps. I know DevOps is all about speed, but it's also about quality. It's equally as challenging ensuring the number of bugs, the earlier you catch them, like Raj mentioned on the left shift, the earlier you catch them, the better your application and infrastructure performance would be as well. It's a lot harder to do DevOps in the enterprise because there's no other constraints. Exactly right. What are some of the top ones that you bump into that you guys are working to solve through the help customers with? But what's different inside the enterprise versus a cloud native DevOps? A cloud native is pretty much a green field in the enterprise. What are some of the key challenges that customers are having that you're working on? I think it's dealing with the traditional infrastructure and the on-prem as well, right? Imagine you're a bank and you just developed a banking application. You might, the app might log in and touch a cloud server, but once the balance is, let's say updated, it might go all the way back to a transaction that has to be updated to a compliance system on a mainframe, right? Again, the chain end to end chain crosses cloud, crosses traditional, even all the way to mainframe at times, you need to make sure that if any of those components fail, that means the customer experience suffered. Then customer experience is everything in today's application. So a lot more engineering to go into that for sure. Yeah, absolutely. The other challenge is the increased complexity when you move into a cloud environment, right? Just because you can, the elasticity and the scale also adds to the complexity and the general lack of visibility, right? So customers want that level of control, regardless of whether it's an on-prem or in the cloud environment. And that's what- So you're saying cloud is more complex or not? From a visibility standpoint, from an operation- From a management standpoint. From a management standpoint. Okay. And that's, you know, one of Amazon's AWS's thought leaders had identified lack of management tools as being a key barrier to cloud adoption, right? A lot of customers hesitate because they don't have, they believe that there's a general lack of control when they move from on-prem to the cloud. Yes, Stu and I were just talking about this earlier this morning before we went on camera. Management is key to get the data, agile's premise is data-driven in management. So management's number one issue. And plus, IT guys love the single-planning pane of glass. Absolutely. They want to have that control. John, John, come on. The enterprise says the single pane of glass is spelled P-A-I-N. So, you know, we'd love to have, you know, system simplified tools out there. But- I saw you do a VC last night at one of the VC parties. I want to get your thoughts on this because this kind of comes down to the thought. I said, hey, how's your investments doing in infrastructure? He rolled his eyes, you know, not too good. But he says that the plumbers are turning into machinists, meaning plumbers being, you know, guys provisioning networks and whatnot. But his point is it's shifting the core competency back to what the management requirement is. They don't mind not, they kind of want to still be plumbers, whatever. But the job is really pushing buttons, looking at what's available. That comes back down to what the cloud trend is. Do you guys agree with that? The plumbers are turning into machinists? No, absolutely. Even the tools that we develop for them, the expectations from them a lot more, right? Like our unified infrastructure management, we're evolving the product to go beyond performance, to experience, to more predictive insight. Just like I gave an example of cards of today versus tomorrow. Cards used to sell on safety and other features. Now they talk about the dashboarding, the automatic collision detection. So now the predict the newer tools that the newer admins of the future will require would be more predictive analytics, more predictive insights, more proactive issue resolution than the old tools that just told you when things went down. Now they have to predictively- A lot of mundane work involved in some of the older techniques. Exactly, exactly. Kind of boring. So, you know, we've been, for the last few years, getting our arms around some of those, you know, analytics applications. Today, you know, you throw in, you know, the artificial intelligence, the machine learning, all the IOT stuff. I mean, that's got to, you know, add orders of magnitude, more complexities than some of the stuff you're doing. How are you guys, you know, looking at that space? You know, what opportunities are there? I think you want to talk about it. So the sheer amount of data that is being generated these days, I think mandates the need for a machine learning approach to help resolve or triage any end user experience issues if you will, right? So I think one of the key takeaways from this conference was it's all about end user experiences and that's what we are all about as well. How do you go from an end user experience all the way to code to infrastructure performance? And there's so much data that is being generated, manually tagging and making sense of the data is a thing of the past. So we are actively investing in machine learning-based approaches to shortening the loop, if you will, from, you know, from a problem standpoint, reducing the MTTR, but also predictively alerting end users that these- Well, the machine learning really accelerates predictive, but also really puts prescriptive analytics on the table big time, absolutely. You guys see that too? No, absolutely, that's what customers ask us as well, right? They don't want to work on more on the dev side. Even the traditional system administrators want to support application development, deployments more. They don't want to do traditional monitoring, right? So they want to be, so there's more automation and predictive insights you have, the less time they'll spend doing the day-to-day management stuff and more time on more value-creating innovation type of applications. Well, guys, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. I asked the final question is, what's your big walk away from the show this year that you're going to take back to the ranch and tell all your colleagues the aha moment was? I think my is all about AI, right? It's how it's finally here and how Amazon has added AI capabilities as well to its stack, making it more and more easier to consume as well. I think that's a big thing for us, adding that across our portfolio, adding more analytics so we can help our end customer drive a better user experience as well. Raj, any thoughts? And for me, there wasn't one specific thing, a lot of small things, if you will, but the sheer pace of innovation, going from the last time, last re-invented this one, it's staggering. And I think one of the key points here that they made was companies have to adapt or be left behind. So that to me is- Well, I echo your comments, pun intended. You guys, can you get your free echoes yet? This swag? Yeah. All right, so of course, hopefully we won't be replaced too by Alexa, theCUBE interviews in the future. Guys, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate it. CA Technologies, Hybrid Cloud, DevOps, monitoring, management, all happening right here in theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. We'll be right back with more live coverage. You're watching theCUBE.