 Welcome to Toffy TV, well, there's a lot to talk about at the moment, a lot to do with the manager, a lot to do with the board, but in December time, the talk of the ESSG King will talk of a fan going on to that board and being a representative, we want to find out a little bit more, so we've got the chair of the ESSG cast palette. You need to come up with something a little bit simpler than that, that's like a mouthful, jazz bath is joining us to talk about it, to get into the nitty gritty of what it all means and how soon we could see a fan representative on the board, jazz show. Felly, ychydig i'w gwybod ychydig i'w gweithio y celf oderau. Rydw i'n dweud o'r ffordd. Rydw i'n dweud o'r ffordd. Mae'r Ysgoledig Superlegig. Mae'r newid o'r ffordd mewn i'r gwneud i'w ddweud i'r newid o'r ffordd. A yna'r ddwy ar y cyflodau, mae'r angen i gydig o ffan wedi'u gwneud i'r ffordd o'r ffordd. Mae'n gweithio'r iawn i'r llythig, yn ymgalwch chi'n ddwy'i ffordd. Pan wnaeth yn gweithio iUN yn y Llyfrdegol i'r Llyfrgell. A o ddim yn ymroed, yw'r Ffans y Greifn i'r Ffans a'r mewn ffans, y bydd yn ym mleidio, i'r Ffans a'r Ffans a'r Ffans a'r gwirionedd y panel. Os fy modd i'r rôl o ffans o ffans ymddangos yn eu lleol i'r cyffredin iawn, os yr un rôl er mwyn o'r peiliad yng nifer, oed llawer o mwyn, a'u lle ffans o'r llun o ffans i'n fwy o'n ffans. ac yn gallu bywyd i'r dweud a'r eich cyfweld yn cyfio'r e-mail. Ac mae'n dweud i'r fan i wneud yn ymgau'r ddweud, ac mae oedd yn cyfrifio'i e-mail. Mae'r net yn yn rhan iawn a'r ddaf. Dwi'n dechrau, mae'n gweithio'r gwybod i'r gweithiau gweld o'r gwasanaeth, mae'n ddweud i'r gweithiau gwneud o'r ddweud i'r ddweud, mae'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r gweithiant, mae'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r gweithiau gweld, Yn fynd, mae'r bwysig iawn. Mae'r bwysig iawn i ddweud ar yw ddweud yn gwneud yng Nghymru. Mae'r bwysig iawn i North America, yw eu Llyfrgelliaeth, ac mae'r bwysig iawn i'r Llyfrgelliaeth. Mae'r bwysig iawn i ddweud ar y ffwrdd yr gweithfodol sydd wedi'n iawn ar y ffwrdd yr gweithfodol. Mae'r bwysig iawn i ddweud ar y ffwrdd yr gweithfodol. Felly, yn y bach o fewn i'r cyd-dyniad, mae'r gweithfodol yn ddechrau'r gwrs. ac mae oedd yn gwneud yn gweithio'r gweithio. A pob ddyn ni'n ddyn ni'n rhoi'n mynd ar y gwaith yn fath o'r club, a ddyn ni'n rhoi'n ddiddordeb o'r fanllwch gwrthig, oedd yn ei chymru gan gweithio'r gwaith i'r prifysgwr i'r gweithio'r gweithio fanllwch gwaith, oedd y Llyfr yn ei wneud. Yna, fel mwy oedd yn gwneud, fel y ffôr yn ei gweithio. A rydyn ni'n wedi gweithio'r gwaith i'r gwaith i'r gweithio'r gwaith, ond eich amser oeddiad y modd yn gallu gweithio. Yn y dynulfaptor, rydyn ni wedi'u cymryd i ddano i fynd i ni, nid ei gyflwyno ymateb, mae angen i'r gwneud i'r unrhyw daun ei ddefnydd, ESSG, eich torniad gyda'r unrhyw i ddech ësgrifes, ond mae eich cyfle i hynny o ei wneud, ond mae y rhaid i ddau wneud i dd unpuddfa yng ngynghwyl o ffordd arlad fy nghyddiad cyfan.cesoedd yma ar y colledau sy'n ei geisio ymddangos dim rawr hon, ac rydyn ni'n gynhwch gwaith yn oed. Ac mae'r gwahodd yn y qulygu yfnodd yn llun, ychydig o swyddfa, yn amlŵr hyn sydd yn gweithio gyda'r byw y gallwn gwaith ac mae'r storisi gyfwc yn dexerddwyd yn yma a'r byw yw'r gweithio fe'n rydyn ni'n gweithio'r gwaith. Yn ni'n cael ddigon o'r rai bwyddoedd, sy'n gweithio ddechrau ar y cyfnod ar y cyfnod. Felly, mae'r gweithio gweld o bobl yn ysgol ffordd yn y cyfal sydd yn gyfeiriau. A'r dros ddweud y byddai'r cyfnod o gyfnod a'r cyfnod y byddai'r cyfnod ar y byddai. Yn hynny, dyfodd y dyfodd, yna wedi'u ganddigol ar y cyfnod eich cyfnod o'r rhai cyfnod. Oherwydd yr orynggor yw meddwl i'r cyfnod ar y cyfnod y byddai'r cyfnod, o ran i ddweud o'r blaen yn y bach gael. O'r hollau y cysylltu, hwnnw i'r maen nhw'n gweithio'r fan yn gweithio'r gwaith. Yn gweithio'r gwneud o'r clwmp yng Nghymru, oedd y gwaith yw i'r mwyfio ym 17 ei hwnnw, ond nid yn ysgol yng Nghymru gyda'r Gwmp yng Nghymru gyda'r clwmp yn yn ymdweud yn dweud. Felly, 50 o'r gweithio'r gweithio'r Gwmp yn ymddangos. Felly, mae'r ddafyn i yn ff Bio Manhattan Mae ac mae'n cyfnod arddangos ar g Napoleon. Felly, roedd y ffordiadau a ddysgu ei wedi bod yn ffordiadau i fynd i bwdeithasio ffordiadau a'r dyfodol iawn i'r ffordiadau. A ond mae'r 8,000 ffan hynny. Felly, na'n rhoi hanfodol i ddafnwyr fynd i ddau 9,000 ffan hynny a rhan yn bwdeithasio ysbrydau'n yn ffordiadau i'r ffordiadau sorryfodol. felly pa'r hwnno oedd y llwyddiadau i'r club. That took us up to just before December, when it got launched on Twitter etc. I totally accepted the communications, they were pretty crap. We are trying to work our way through that now and we hope to launch an website imminently. Then that will host all the reports, who we are, how you can contact us, and the next phase, consultation at the moment is in terms of developing the terms of reference. For this Fan Advice Reboard, ..so that we can then present that to the club. There's going to have to be a bit of give and take because if it doesn't fall in line with the articles of association for Everton which in effect is that the club's constitution, how they do business, you could almost argue it'd be meaningless. So we're going to ask for what we ask. The club will probably turn around and say you might have to fine tune that bit just to make sure that it is meaningful. And then hopefully we'll get to a place where the final terms of reference are accepted by the club. The phase we're in at the moment, certainly I'm totally open to some of the criticism we got, which was how do you represent me? And we'll be looking to put things in place in terms of whether that's surveys, whether that's an online conference, whether that's some other avenue that we can cast further and wider than what we have done before. But in terms of the criticism, the criticism that I've seen, I may be totally off of this but certainly the criticism I've seen was more about how can you speak for me? It wasn't criticised and the ask, the recommendations that we've submitted. I wouldn't worry about that too much I get told every single day. I don't represent fans. You have to take that step forward sometimes to be able to do it. You said December now in January. Is there been any reason why you haven't really said anything or is December not a great month? A lot of stuff just gets thrown to the side. Have you been working on things or has there just been a case of... Yes, so we have been working on things but we've been trying to get this website in place with initial consultations within the stakeholder members of the ESSG. We're now trying to flesh out the detail of the terms of reference. So if you look at the fan advisory board that we recommended, there's bits within there, not in set and stone at the moment. We're going to do this, drop a consultation, open it up, et cetera. But one of the areas that could be emotive is the constitution, the composition of the fan advisory board. So if we look at examples of other clubs and what they have gone for, so predominantly ESL6 teams. So those nearest and nearest over the road to the Spirits of Shankly. So they're going for 16, a board of 16, 10 of those are reserved rights for Spirits of Shankly. One's for the Disabled Sports Association, one's for the Women Supporters Club. There's a couple of other groups in there, so I think one's the Spiron Cup and one's another group. And then I think they're also going to have representation from a sort of a faith ethnic minority background as well, and that's their composition. So 16, all of those positions in effect will be deemed as sort of reserved for groups, even though 10 of them have come from one group. If you look at what Arsenal and Manchester have done, sort of similar styles, they've said there's going to be 12 on each board. Seven of them are going to be representatives of fans, five are going to be representatives of the clubs themselves. Chelsea, they turn around and said we'll have three fan directors, they went through the election process for them, and I think they were identified sort of October, November, so I'd assumed that they are now taking charge of those roles. Tottenham, they said that they would do some fan advisory board, whatever the terminology was, but in effect a fan advisory board. And they said the chair of that would have non-exec director role within the board of directors, but I haven't seen or heard any more of that. So they're the sort of models that are out there at the moment. If you look at how that could come across to us, I'll give you the two extremes I suppose. So you could turn around, we asked for 11, so all 11 of them, if they were to go out and sort of anybody could put the hat in the ring and be elected for them. I'm not saying this will happen, but worst case scenario could be that you get 11 individuals speaking as 11 individuals and having the authority of the whole fan base. If you went the opposite way and there's 11 reserved groups, then you could argue that you've got the voice of, or you're speaking on behalf of 100, 200,000 Evertonians, depending on how the net cast and the pyramid drops down. They're made more long to sort of for the many, not the few, which is certainly the way that Liverpool has sort of done theirs. Now, they're the two extremes. You could probably assume that it's not going to be either extreme, it's going to be somewhere in the middle. But at the moment they're the discussions that we're going out and we're having and we're going to be gauging feedback at all. You mentioned you could have those discussions with the fans. How are you going to do that because you've met with the club, but is it more difficult to speak to the fans? Is it difficult to get that conversation over? So this is why we're doing this now, for example. So this is to try and get the message out there that, look, I will take the criticism that comes with crap. We've got an email address, ESSG1878 at gmail.com, send any comments into me there, I'm more than happy to take them. You can send them to me individually from my fans forum account, jazz.bal and evertonfansforum.com. We wanted this website up so that we could potentially use that as another platform then as well. So we're looking at ways that we could do a sort of an online conference. If it's off a Google site, there might be something we can do with Google Meet that may be able to do massive Zoom calls, webinars, et cetera. We may be able to host a forum or a survey on the website that people can go to it and do that as well. We're just trying to get the message out there now. So that's sort of one of the background activities that has been taking place. Is that after the problem is that you're setting up from zero? Where did you just mention Spirit of Shankly? Spirit of Shankly is a huge organisation who have, who've came out of the Hicks and Gillette area at Liverpool, well established, well established within the media. Is that, I'll just say right now, maybe you need to catch your name, that sort of cat. And I don't mean that messing either because Spirit of Shankly for me always, it says it in the name straight away. They had a course to fight for, I suppose you're starting from a really difficult position. And also, this is an interim group. So it's going to be liked. So in our ask from the club, we turn around so that they have a fan advisory board in place for the start of next season. So if we meet that timeline, the ESSG folds and the fan advisory board takes that on. So it's how much effort you put into establishing something which has got blah blah blah blah blah if it's an interim group. I'm not saying that we're not trying. So ultimately, we're all there for turnings. We're just trying to do this for the benefit of our club and our fans. I think it's a, no, no, I was just going to say, the mad thing is, you've started or you're trying to do this at the best possible time, but also the worst possible time. It's the best possible time because all the fans feel like we need some representation. It's the worst possible time because there's so much noise about everything and has been in the last month that it's really hard to get yourself above that noise. And that I think that's a major thing you're going to have to deal with, isn't it? Is how do we become the story when there's so many other stories in town? How do we get ourselves above that? Because and thing with media is at the moment it's so fractured as well media. People will get their stories from here. They will get them from just going on Twitter. They will get them from going on the echo. It's so hard to build something now, unless there's a real sort of outrage, might be the wrong way, but a real anger to it. I mean, we've seen that with something like the 27 campaign. That's a movement amongst fans who are really angry to try and get across making the change in the club. And that's really struggled with trying to find a foothold because ultimately people just go, I didn't know anything about that. And I suppose you're in the same position. And that's why I'm here today. That's why we're trying to sort of galvanise this and get something behind us over the next month or so. So ultimately the club had turned around and said, we'll recognise the fan advisory board. That will operate at a strategic level. So if you look at the other groups that have structured dialogue, so the forum and the chair of that, that's operational. So we meet monthly and it's about sort of match going experience that we can affect. Now, sort of on-field performance is out of the remit of that. However, fan sentiment isn't. So we will turn around and we will summarise fan sentiment and we will present that to the club. However, we don't have a sort of direct out on that, I suppose, because it's at the operational level. So I suppose one way of saying is we meet with the fan engagement team going up to the heads of the sort of comms and marketing. And at that same sort of operational level will be EDSA, the Heritage Society will be the Sported Club Committee. So the difference for us now for the strategic level where this fan advisory board will be having its dialogue with the club, that will be board of directors and maybe the bottom level that may be the leadership team. So that will be your heads of departments. So it's going straight in, but I think because of that there also needs to be an element of management because if we just go back to the composition again. If the forum and the Sported Club Committee and EDSA had all mentioned ticketing, for example, at the operational level and that response had already come from head of ticketing and the way ahead was agreed, then that potentially doesn't need escalating to Denise. However, if the fan advisory board was made fully elected without any criteria, for example, you could have 11 fans who aren't privy to that conversation. So they could tell them and say, well, we think it's an issue with ticketing and go straight to Denise when in effect you've got to see here. Oh yeah, let's hit it with the big tick as items, the strategic drive and direction that the club is going as opposed to what could potentially be considered as operational issues that the dance has already been given for. It's just, when you sit here that I'm sitting and listening to you and it's crazy that this is such a sort of quiet subject that it isn't getting more noisy because at the moment we are demanding answers, aren't we? And like you just said there, you want to be hitting them with these big questions and there's no remit to do that at the moment. So it really does need to gather more steam, doesn't it, and get going. And I think on that as well, it's a commitment now so a lot of fans can turn around and say the club don't get what we want, what we're on about. The club have already turned around and said at a strategic level we're going to recognise this fan advisory board. So there is an avenue now for fans' voices, certainly on the sort of the guise of what was submitted to the club for 11 fans, whether they're representing individual themselves or they're representing groups with a sort of broader base. But there's an opportunity now for that to go straight to the senior leadership team, the chief executive. So will there be an election for the fan advisory board? And will all fans get a vote on that? So I've got to be careful now because that's what we're discussing at the moment in terms of, so within the terms of reference we mentioned, the composition of the group, we mentioned how they are elected, we mentioned how often meetings are going to be taking place and that's what we're going to be going out and consulting with people for. So look, in my mind if there's going to be an election for one role, for 11 roles, for however, then that needs to be done independently from the club. So yes, I suppose the answer is there will be elections. The composition of these 11 spaces at the moment, that is where the discussion is happening now. And I suppose that filters back at the conversation I've had then where we're turning round and saying how can we be inclusive? We want representation from potentially some of these groups who have the dialogue so that if they're not satisfied with the answers they've got an avenue to escalate it. However, we also need to make sure that we're catering for 18 to 30-year-olds because they're the future of the club. And the issues they have, like I mean 44, 42. Just 43. Yeah, I mean so hard issues aren't the same. I go with lads but I'll take my daughter now again so these other groups don't. If you look at making sure that you're capturing representation from away travellers you could argue that the fan basically travel away younger than what the average age of the home is. But then at the moment it might be decided that what I've needed to back up for through is the Sports Club Committee. So that includes all the affiliated sports clubs. So hands towards for example will filter in within that and then come up. So there's lots of conversations to be had. Obviously every area is provoking conversation. Yeah it's a big, there's a lot of people to cover not just within the fan base. Do you think that? Cos it's really difficult isn't it? Cos your first problem is how do you gather all these people together? How do you give, you know I just mentioned it but will every fan ever vote? But how do you gather that all together? How do you have all that information? It must be easier for other clubs, certainly abroad cos they have members where our clubs are. I don't personally feel like Everton as a club use the supporters clubs very very well and I don't think they have used them well since Alan Myers was at the club and would take players and Roberto Matinez and different people to the supporters clubs. I think at the moment the supporters clubs feel very independent from the football club so then it's how do you bring all those things together so they're not just nice little, they get all their nice little rewards and benefits how can we use them and bring them all together? So again that's, the supporters club committee is in place at the minute and they have a representative as part of the CSSG. I'd argue that that could potentially be a conversation for them to decide themselves as opposed to being told this is how you do it. So it's frustrating isn't it cos we do well on the pitch, everyone's happy, we're not in Covid and then you get the opportunity to go away with ambassadors and players to all these sports clubs and have like dinners with them and whatever else and it just seems to be at the moment a lot of things happening that aren't helping Addy. But you have to think about it as well is and I'll fit into this criteria. There's no supporters club for me. So I'm a regular fan, right? I'm a regular fan who wants to vote for putting someone on the board. I have no hope. I have no in the term political allegiance because I don't go to too many away games. I don't live away from, I live two miles from the ground. I don't go to a particular pub, in fact I don't go to any pub for a game. So I have no affiliation to anything other than Everton Football Club. So I think there'll be a lot of people out there like me and I know Baz will be the same and the people I go to the match with will go, this is a good idea but where do I fall in? Because it's all... I'll say one of the things that really pisses me off is that Everton Knight is that Everton are boss and looking after supporters clubs and looking after people who live in America or looking after... whoever they need to look after, don't look after me. Don't look after me, I've paid my season. Don't look after... don't give a monkey to about me. That's weird then so let's spit ball this over. So we're having an election, whether that's for one space or 11 spaces. The way I had imagined it is everybody who's put himself forward for an election and then on the back of the bio there would be a vote that we're saying should be running independently from the club now. Being running independently from the club doesn't mean that the club aren't involved because what we want to happen we want to make sure that it's never toning. We want to make sure that it's never toning. So there may be an element of... because of GDPR and whatever else, I'm not into the weeds of this but to verify that people are voting are evertonians, they should have a customer account. So to be an element of cross-preferent databases to make sure that somebody is eligible to vote and then you can look at the candidates, the fans who want to be part of this fan advisory board and say well, he's me. He's not part of the sports club committee. He goes to the match with his wife. He just goes to the match, comes home, he's not there for any other reason but that's what I relate to and that's what voting is all about. So you could go on then customer number, turn round, blah blah blah this is what I'm voting for. It just always feels like there's a disconnect between... and I'm not saying that's the person I affiliate with or whatever. I understand that. So it's not necessarily affiliate with but everybody has the opportunity then to vote for who they think would do the best job. No, no, what I mean is that it's not... it just sometimes feels like as a football club not as it's... certain rights are given to people who are within the supporters' clubs or are within these affiliated things where there's a lot of fans out there who get left behind because they just... they're not part of something because there's no... you think about it, you go to the match there's no real need to be part of a supporters' club if you are a local fan. Absolutely, and I suppose that's where the forum comes in. So the forum's there for every fan. You may get people who are part of supporters' clubs who are also... who fight two chains and I mean that. They'll raise an issue through the supporters' club for elevation of one meeting who will raise it through the forum and then we'll elevate it through our meetings and I suppose that's where it comes back to the point I mentioned before when you mentioned the forum and Nedson mentioned something and we're not getting satisfactory responses and these three organisations have a seat within the fan advisory board they can get together and turn around and say to Denise turn around and say well look we've been working on these independently we're not happy with the answers we're getting at the moment so that needs now escalator from the operational level to the strategic level and that way as well as sort of fighting it bottom up that's what we're now. Will there be... This is a bit of a naughty question Will there be any special treatment for the current members of the ESSG reserved places? So we don't know at the moment the fan advisory board will take place There's five organisations who have structured dialogue with the club so there's the fans forum there's EDSA, there's Heads of Society, Sports Club Committee and there's the Shareholds Association ok so they are the organisations you currently meet with the club now Shareholds Association already meet at the strategic level so they will their Executive Committee will meet monthly independently will ask the Shareholds Association and every quarter they will meet with board members I believe that would normally be Denise plus, minus, what have you the rest of the other groups are all at the operational level now nothing's been decided at the moment but the example I've just given then could be an opportunity to escalate those things that the response is unsatisfactory at the moment so in terms of let's say that the forum get a spot on the fan advisory board that won't be me jazz ball trying to sort myself out because one of the things we turned around was no members should spend more than three years on the fan advisory board if I shared the fans forum we'll do a vote we want you to represent us in the fan advisory board now this was all in place last year despite me being on there and potentially having three years the day I leave the forum which would probably be made this year because that's when my tenure's up that means that I'm no longer representing the forum I don't keep the space on the fan advisory board because if that had come from a reserved writer in effect the forum would then have to have left somebody else to take over so in terms of the sort of three year piece that potentially could be managed internally it'd obviously be a lot easier to manage three year timeline if it was sort of individuals going through that way I hope we answered that You did I think no because it's really difficult because this is something you're actually doing something that people want you to do I don't think anyone can criticise you for trying to do something that a lot of this is the hard work isn't it this is the work I've just said about Spirit of the Shankly Spirit of the Shankly are a very established independent group who've worked really hard they had to probably do it really quick because of the Hicks and Gillething and they were obviously away from the football club because obviously they were the bad guys at the time got all probably where they've come from they probably isn't from an angle of probably a lot of people from within unions, shop stewards that kind of thing and Evertonians started to do that with the Blue Union the football club completely resisted that because because of Everton Football Club you're obviously taking a lot more strategic way of doing it trying to work with the club I mean let's be honest Spirit of the Shankly have basically put themselves in such a position that the club cannot ignore them because they're too powerful, they're too big if you look at their construct now then so well again it hasn't been decided but I'd find it very unlikely that one group if they didn't get reserve right would have more than one position if you look at Spirit of the Shankly they've got 10 of the 16 and in effect you could say that all 10 of those members are representing the same group of people so if they were to have votes and you need 66% to get through they're only going to convince one of these other groups and then they've got enough to make that decision and if you look at and that's purely made up of groups with reserve positions I don't think any of the groups have made up of individual fans elected to it but that's something to wear open to and to discuss as well I think their argument to that would be is that they are the established they are not they are the established there's not a group that has one cause they already represent all the Liverpool fans and I think Liverpool fans in a way give them the responsibility to do that already this is coming from a completely new place isn't it, it's coming from a completely separate place and as you said you've already got everyone on board so it's harder it's almost like news have been created because the space is now there to take I look at the forum obviously the forum has a lot of critics there's not really much I can do about that but I've been involved in the last two rounds of recruitment and I've been through the recruitment itself so I submit an application form that was scored and then the shortlist of people I got invited to interview and then I was successful at a vote I got through by dumb luck to be honest because there was four spaces somebody else quit and the fifth space came I came fifth so I got through by default but in effect you could argue that I've already been elected to my position within the fans forum you know what I mean so in effect that's one organisation that's structured dialogue with the club I don't know I suggest that the range of issues that the fans forum involved with and the fact that they have monthly meeting with the club and they're engaged with fans all these messages up I would probably say that if there was going to be a reserved position any group like that could potentially be in scope for them were you qualified? and you've been elected already by the fan base in terms of that that the fan base have elected that group I think what this needs is it needs publicity which is what I really it needs all those people who don't fully get it or don't fully feel like they're represented to jump on board it's like anything it's like if you want to it's like if I moan about politics all the time and people have actually said well why don't you go into politics I'm like no I'm not intelligent enough to go into politics but it's like you ask if there's people out there put your money where your mouth is can't do it can't do it in the job for you then go and get it come and get involved and I think that's what you're saying the way as well we need ideas don't we the spot's there it's up for grabs it's Michael Thomas in the last minute let's get more ideas let's get more people involved and let's scope this is a real opportunity I think it is and in terms of have we got to where we are now there's fans who have emailed in individually there's fans who have reached out to me and I've had 45 minutes on the phone call with them the opportunities there anybody who thinks they've got an idea that he's bringing to the party bring it we've got our social media presence to DM through ESSG 18 we've got our email address we've got the fans forum ones if anybody wants to reach out we'll have to chat with them as the club agreed to have a fan elected by all the fans join the board so the club have turned around and said there will be a seat at the board for a fan so the current state of play is so the ESSG is now developing the terms of reference for the fan advisory board once the fan advisory board is in place it's for the fan advisory board to work with the club to determine how that seat at the board is filled so nothing's been closed it's not off the table because and this is the same with the fans forum I think people who ultimately criticise both that's what they want they want every fan to be able to be a nominee and they want every fan to be able to vote for it but how that happens is another thing and I think that's what you're trying to work out isn't it and that's there's no solution the organisations or the clubs who have made moves and tried to get ahead of the game in terms of Arsenal, Manu Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool none of them have got any spaces open to the fan we're not saying that that's the model we're going down because ultimately you do continue some improvements in your day job and whatever else and anybody could have the idea that there is the golden ticket idea it hasn't been decided yet that's ultimately where we're at I've been doing this process for the fan advisory board for the best part of six to eight months if you ask me Mrs, she'll say you've been doing it for five years for three years on the forum now so my time's come to an end I'm doing this as jazz ball let's make things better let's put the fans forum make sure they've reserved right because I'm chair the forum and then I'll automatically get to be a seat at the board guess what, come may I'm finishing my three year tenure on the forum has come to an end I haven't decided whether I'm going to reapply for that but if it went the other way and individual positions come up I might very well say I'm quite fancy man to that and I might put my name in and go through the process and I might buy it out there and be held to account by the fans whether they want me or they don't want me I think a lot of people criticise these things as well and never you just said they don't put the hard yards in that actually like I said it's like anything you don't put the hard yards in and you all want to say people will criticise everything won't do without actually looking at the work that goes into it and that's the thing ultimately but all Evertonians certainly everyone involved in the process so far they're doing off their own time so they're all volunteers and honestly the people involved at the minute none of them are self-serving they're doing this because we want the best for Evertonians we want to be in the position where we have our fans the engagement we did before the one clear output was Evertonians want to be listening and the whole acceptance of the club to have this fan advisory board to leave this seat at the table open that is all about that's two different avenues now potentially the fan voice to go direct to Denise just on the other side I think this is the more important but actually you're going to have the it's like a shadow board isn't it what Tracey Crouch asked for was a shadow board we're calling it a fan advisory board but in effect that to me is more important I think that's the point isn't it where the ideas that get driven to the football club can be spoken you can get that true idea of what the representative on the board is going to focus on it at whatever meeting they're on absolutely so that's why there's two clear distinct recommendations one was a fan advisory board and one was fan directors it wasn't single as plural fan directors whether that's going to happen I don't know but ultimately that's for the fan advisory board once they've been constituted and in place for them to have the conversations with the club in effect now that the ESSG came about to develop the proposal it's now grown a bit in terms of okay so let's agree the terms of reference that as many fans we can consult with support that also falls online with the club's articles of association and then that's the quick win to me that is potentially we ask for it at the start of next season the club come back and challenge us to try and get it in place for the end of this season so the club are massively for it if we can get that in place for the end of this season that then gives them the opportunity to speak to the club about this seat on the board and how that's filled and then there's this potential there granted it's going to be a very short time frame to meet the start of next season ask that we did for fan directors but that's the process in place at the moment how much different sorry do you see between that shadow board and the fans forum so it's like what I said before to me that's the difference between sort of operational strategic so that fan advisory board would be they would be getting briefed by head of partnerships saying this is the direction we're going so let's look at socials for example so socials got mentioned to the forum as it got launched the fan advisory board may be privy to that 2-3 months ahead of that because they will stop it happening or ask other questions or whatever else and in effect that's strategic that's sort of long term direction's going as opposed to partnership signed and sealed now now we're going to liaise with the forum now the forum can liaise with us and we can turn around and to be fair as the forum we've had conversations across the football sports association network we've had even Alex Dreyfus I was chatting to him who's the CEO of socials so we've been chatting to the club partnerships team about different elements so I've had involvement directly with socials but they could have been that same level of involvement 3, 6, 9 months earlier by a strategic level board as opposed to forum the forum in my mind and all the organisations with structured dialogue were not saying that any of that should stop who is best placed to talk about issues on the limited mobility platforms eddor who is best suited to some of the issues we get in our magic experience group about catering you're not going to go to Denise and say that the pies are cold we ran out of sausage rolls you know what I mean so there's a place for all these operational level groups and the strategic one in my mind sits above certainly those four on a par potential shareholder association but that don't two organisations will be strategic whereas the rest are operational well because it sounds that you've got a lot on your plate so no I think it's a good idea it's obviously just getting me like any else and there's a fan idea well there's a lot of fans ideas the whole process of April, through till June the forum submission to the fan eddor review that wasn't done in isolation that was done with the input of over 10,000 fans whether that's emails, phone calls workshops etc and that's what the fans were asking for I see it every day there's a lot of people who feel that fans don't don't get things done or can't get things done and then don't actually realise that fans do get a lot done I have this bug bit every year I have this bug bit for absolute years and you get it every year, every May for both fans go why don't we get more tickets for the FA Cup and then they have a little moan and then no one backs them cos it's not their team and then the following year another team does it and we saw it with the 20s plenty and it ended up being 30% for a white ticket when fans come together and they get their ed together they can get something done they have to be listened to and at our football club they have to be listened to because we are the club if we walked away they'd be not left to be listened to and there's fans who are out there who responded to that email from Denise everybody, the 10,000 who took part in the Everton Future Football Survey everyone who did the Grand Old Team the 3,500 fans who went to that everyone who entered any of these surveys engaged, sent us emails, phone calls whatever, they've all been listened to and that's how we've got we had these two recommendations that we made to the club and as I said before the criticisms that I'm aware of, please put me right they were to do with how you're representing me not to do with or we don't agree with you asking for fan directors or we don't agree that there should be a strategic level fan of drives report it can be a difficult fan base to please but when we are all united then we can get things done so the website's launched today yep hopefully today's Thursday isn't it what's the address still one of the issues we've got at the moment is the domain so we've bought the domain at a different time to launch the site so hopefully it will be ESSG1878.com but that may change but what's the socials so the socials is on Twitter is at ESSG1878 I know this is not for everybody I know for some people you've been watching this and you'd be like what are they on about but there is an element of our fan base that does one control it does one people on the board I understand there's people who go I'm not asked but a lot of the time they're the same people who mum when things don't get done or we don't buy players or that they sell crap beer in the ground if you want to get involved get involved but you know what if you don't want to get involved just keep an eye on it as well because it's important if you look at the three campaigns going on at the moment I think you could probably boil them all down to listen to what the fans want that is something that the club have agreed to work with us about doing maybe if you listen to the fans in the summer you wouldn't be in the mess we're in right now and sadly listen to the fans when they talk about Roberto Martinis do you go big thanks to jazz for coming in to discuss the ESSG can I have to change that to like I don't know the daughters of Dixie or something I don't know but in time in time that'll be catchy so I'll have to say it's interim anyway so potentially by the end of the season it'll see to exist it'll be a new name we'll have all the details in the description as well if you want to find out any more about that jump on the socials if you want to know it will end up with a fan on the board sitting next to Grimshab thanks for watching see you later