 Welcome everyone. This is the Docs office hours. It's the 21st of September. Let's look at the proposed agenda and Here you'll see Topics so Jonathan, we put you first new migration GitHub issues then October fast and Google season of Docs anything else we should add to the list maybe if I Saw the last meeting we have many people who are working on it. So Maybe if you want to update us about some topics Then a worker and all like a vacation Impact or work okay, I'm not sure what you're referencing so Say you say it again Jonathan for me. So you're thinking status reports or oh I guess I make the top case. I saw another He do it's not our passion. So, oh No, that's okay. That's that's great. No problem. So but we can certainly we can certainly discuss status reports and Project progress because there are a number of topics there like Jenkins 2.2 49.1 Has had many different things going on Jenkins infrastructure HTTPS or update center Etc. So they're quite a number of those. Yeah, I can include those. Oh, that's the wrong place I even put it in the wrong wrong entry. Sorry just a minute But the notes not in history and let's put the notes in current So what I was what I wanted to be sure we went through Jonathan was the topic here The new issues you've created and how we can use those for our work on Hacktoberfest That was for me. That's the crucial one for this particular meeting today Okay We're now at Hacktoberfest is now on the Jumbotron Are you okay if we look at the new issues you've submitted and talk through them, etc? No problem and that started. Okay, great. You scared me when you said no problem, I'm like It's a normal phrase here man before it is it's a perfectly good one, but you hung on the no and scared me for three seconds Sorry Made the wrong intonation, I know yeah a Reminder to wait until the sentence is finished before you freak out All right, so let's let's take a look at And we're now at 89 and I believe Jonathan that these are yes, okay great, so let's How about we take a look at one of them? Is there any one of these that you'd like to Choose as the one that we look at so you can talk us through the technique you're using now No, it's all of them. It's following the same template. So, okay, really similar All right, go ahead Okay, so as I speak in our and Previous meeting and we are using this template to create the issues So the first part the station and central information We have the page to migrate with the link and the hot thing needs to do So for example the proposal or in this case, it's only redirects for the Indicated explanation. So this issue is about the migrates for a plug-in Yeah, I searched the the plug-in that I indicate the Correspondent station So you did that's perfect you did the research and that says yeah This this page with its rather long and verbose name is In fact the plug-in documentation and here is the plug-in page Exactly. So if I compare the content, so if you click on the Go back to issue, please and click on the link in the destination proposal plugins about Jenkins. Yeah, yeah, click on it Okay. Yeah, so this one Yeah, is right here. Yeah. Oh, yeah So it's the same as plug-in. I follow the link on the issue So on the old page original page So and this is just to that exact location very good. Okay So clearly this was intended to be the documentation for that that plug-in and There is not an awful lot of content there. Good. So And the first time now the first the next step now it's but for simple way new tag and good to first I guess And so this yeah, so this one so what it needs is a redirect and the does the teacher I don't remember if the tutorial shows people how to do the redirect. I think it does I Think to I can't remember right now Okay. Alright, so that's So we need to redirect page to migrate and then the answer is redirect to the destination That's elegant and I agree with you. This is a good first issue Good first issue. Yeah Is there a reason to do redirect and not just put the move the content Well, that's that's what's actually quite important here the content here is This block and that's it. Yeah all the rest it says move to the read me and Is a bunch of comments and questions from users that we would not put into the documentation So so the content has already moved actually and that's in this case. Yeah Right and even better the content here is much much more useful than that wiki page Okay, now now something that this particular task could benefit from but not Not in the context of Jenkins.io But this particular plug-in would benefit by having the transformation made to use its to deliver its documentation from GitHub and Then this content that we see here on the page Would appear on the plug-ins Jenkins.io page. It doesn't right now So this this page could be dramatically better automatically if we made if they would merge one change to the palm file on This on this particular plug-in and I suspect there's already a pull request proposing that change No, don't see it. Okay Just my concern is I know that HTML proofer that we use for Cloudby stocks Will not follow a redirect So so an x ref to that page that gets redirected will fail if it checks hmm Well, but so so because I don't think we have much choice there We may not know redirect because wiki is read-only. So this top page Let's go there this page. Whoops This page right here the one that opens when I click the top link is in fact Only readable no one can write to it right therefore. It's not going to help anyone Find the information. They have to search and get lucky that they find this hyperlink, right? Yeah, you are yeah, we need to remember we are using redirect because This page is one of the most accessed page Followed it. So it's important to do the red red right right good point. Yeah, so we've got this We've got this Report that tells us which pages are are actively used and this is this is now up in the list good Yeah Near for one thousandth All right Also a side question So we're updating the terminology in Jenkins now even though the software has not yet been updated We're doing we're doing both right so we intend to both update the documentation and update the software to to address The first yeah first two are the hotspots right now, right and but the others yes We are also doing the other two also Yeah, after our previous meeting I had the section about technologies just as a reminder Yeah Very good I'm concerned that it's going to be confusing if the documentation says I'm doing a controller and the software says it's a master But it may be we just need to live with that Yeah, the the the usual problem has been that the software makes the change and the documentation never catches up I would love for once to have the problem the documentation is ahead of the software Indeed Okay, the following sections about the tutorial and additional information why it's important to migrate the page and then the next day the last one it's about the redirect so when the know we Migrate the content that we need to redirect so I guess it's everything a Voluntary needed to work on Right now now for this specific one because it's just a redirect I think it's safe for me to delete the additional information. Isn't it? Oh It's a it's a it's on you Yeah, I just put there because it's the template. It's the same for every issue So all we should do the we'll have the same Yeah, and my thought was for someone who's seeing this as a first time as the first thing they see I Worry that that they won't Understand that this is just quite a play well, I Get a Concept the way I work on it. So for example when I start to work with you. I Ask questions. I Research I read I watch the previous videos section So if the people need to work and do the same they think they can figure out What that what this test can say to him So I guess if they follow a test to work on it Jenkins No clear for you No way. No, I think it's clear to me. I'm just concerned. I'm not sure I want that level of tests for these first time Particularly because we're coming up in about 10 days We've got Octoberfest starting and for there are many folks many people there who would who will help us and Then quickly drop off because they did something just for the fun of it And we want to get as good results from them as we can so I think I'm I think I'm gonna go ahead and Well so I But For example, what do you right now? You are doing a 3h on the previous issue. I have That's so I guess I guess it's the important work to do. So for example, I go there and Do the research and create the issue and the next step and you read it and mark for example It's good the issue edit on as to remove the The content to your gas is not important for first you show the answer. I I guess it's a good best to follow And I think that makes sense You I you have a good point Jonathan that that having two of us involved in thinking about it We'll probably give us even better than that if we do only just one person working it Exactly, okay That because this the benefit they get a video That shows them. Hey, here's here's how you do this and they they've got very specific instructions Immediately that say you need to do the following redirect Good, okay. Yeah, so for example, maybe for this kind of issue It's a Good thing a recorder a new video explain how to do exactly the redirection Not for example, because this video Relinquished about a page week Migration not only about the redirect Right, right. So it might be better if we had a segment which was just How do you do? How do you do a redirect? For example, go to the next the last session that the issue last session go down, please go go back Oops Yeah, so okay, so yeah, so about the redirection Process it's Instructions are and a redirection be set up by sending PR for this file. Just take a previous samples best samples To me it was enough to this phrase to work maybe for a new commerce maybe not maybe Right help more Well, and in particular because at least for me the syntax of that vhost.conf file Was not immediately obvious. What it's what does it mean? Right and reading through where to put it and why was was more complicated. So yeah, good point Yeah, excellent. That's that's great. Thank you, Jonathan So do we want do we want to take a look at any of the other issues? Were there any in this new set that you submitted that? Oh Just pick one Okay, how about troubleshooting articles page? Oh, okay. This is another one where it's just a redirect Yeah Good, okay, very good Well, well that's encouraging because you've done you've done the triage work to review this original page You as a human being looked at it and said look this makes more sense to go here than here Exactly. So we say a Big start I guess that that is that's wonderful. Okay, so that so then the the task there really is Visit those and say yes, these are good first issues and then label them and if I remember correctly You don't you we haven't yet granted you permission to assign that label So that that assures us a two-step process for now and as we get better at this We may grant you permissions to allow you to do good first issue as well Okay That but I like I like the two-step process. I think that's very healthy for us Excellent, so please any important content and just to go Just wait a moment. Let me find this Go back. Please. Yeah, just a moment at the vote foundation guarantee Okay please click on the migration display information about the nodes Yes, there's one. Okay, so first sample This kind of page we have a problem because the destination The destination click on it Okay, just a minute. Let me get rid of some yes and hold tabs All right now Okay, this one so the destination Yeah, the destination link. Oh, yeah, so this Okay, go ahead This one is is sort of a hotspot for Megan for me Because this should probably now be named well So this one's talking about all sorts of things agent related and there's very little here But there's an awful lot that we need to know about agents And so yeah, so this one is a poster child of a wiki page that has lots of very good Oh, no, this one doesn't have this one's not terribly useful. Okay this this target page needs lots of information on it and has Nothing particularly useful for a typical user this this script Monitor and restart offline agents is is a very specialized unique thing not Not the thing that needs to tell us here are this different types of agents and here's when you use an ephemeral agent and so Exactly, and there is another point to for simple go back to issues. It's just the issues that Okay issues. Did I do this? Oh issues. Yeah, this okay, so you want to go back to issues go back. Yeah Go down more or more Go down or there is another. Yeah Just as let me find them Try to Post initialization script Yeah, that's all there is a problem. I did to go The destination proposal didn't go in the same place. I wish I will correct them But it's about the APR. I send it about the Jenkins agent So the PR wasn't approval yet, and we need to migrate content to there. Oh Okay, I can't I can't be great because the PR was not approved Right. So this one this one this issue has a dependency that we need to get the existing PR in Before this one will make any sense. Okay, so that's that one There's a great way to to say that something like this This PR this issue Needs PR number and Then we we find it See post initialization I have I'll have to let me go look for it really quickly here because what it really needs is exactly the issue that The PR that you've submitted we need to get it merged so that it's there as a precondition So is it yeah, yes, you put the outer as Jonathan Yeah, get your other get Jay Yeah, okay, so so Agents architecture Yeah All right, so 35 11 and that's that's a merged before Work starts on this issue Because you've given us a place to put things with the agent architecture page, but we need to get that merged exactly So elegant all I get asked for some modifications. I already sense that Great, so it's waiting for the next review. Yeah, and all I won't be able to review He's probably offline for at least another week or two potentially a month With other things, but I should be able to help with it So that's that's a that's a good one that knowing that it's we've got another issue that is pending on it Good very good Okay, so this one this one for me. I would not flag as good first issue because it has this dependency Exactly. All right. Yes about issues. Can you go to work targets? I Yeah, click on it With conversion and Google don't okay, so go to issue maker the third Okay, so I I put on the yellow Data pages. I can figure out the nation and sometimes because it's a a development content development guy, so for example So get one. Yes. This is a nice sample Jenkins is hanging on hanging Let's see what you said Jenkins is hanging. I missed that There it is good, okay here this way. All right click click on the page It's a strange concept to be on the documentation so it's so It's not so objective Yes, well and and isn't this isn't this really this one for me is Is a subset of the information. How do you report a bug? Because I think if Jenkins hangs it's a bug and so I would propose that this page Should be redirected to how to report a bug. I Agree, I think the same because it's not so it's not objective content Right, right. Yeah, it is it is very subjective. Yeah, so Yeah, okay, so you can put in front of only redirects. I will create the issue. Oh Okay, great. Okay. Thanks. Let's see. So it's subset of How to report a bug okay, and And that it may be that the content is not in how to report a bug but my guess is This information is probably well, let's see when was it last yeah, here we go look created in 2013 So The page is seven years old and this class of failure Hasn't hasn't been common with Jenkins for a very long time This type of failure. Okay. Good. I put some comments on the Sheets for simple go to Logger configuration Logger configuration. Okay. Good. All right So go to the page to first simple Mike's out here. It's because we already have a page speaking about longer but It's a old page old content too. So I don't know if Logger on Jenkins is handler in the same way. For example, Woodson.model and Java.u2.login Maybe it's not more Useful for new person on Jenkins. How was it can figure out that? And oddly enough, I found this one for me has been well at least I've used the loggers Just very recently and found them be very helpful. But let me let me do a quick Quick show it because I thought we had this that information already on Loggers Yeah, we do. Okay. Good. So so this has a We've got a page already that I think we could redirect that to immediately and this page is actually current So that's a that's a very good one You just found a page that we should redirect and and I think I don't see anything in this page Well, I So, Hannah, I thought I speak about the developer content It's because the last part of us so You can have a link that see Java.login overview. So if you saw that link It's about developer.login and not Jenkins.login property Clicking on it. I guess it's going to Oracle page Right and it's going to a really old last update 2001 so a really long ago How you do logging and I think I think by now they may have replaced it with eight Although I don't know if they've rewrote this. Oh they did so so if we wanted to point someone to To the Oracle docs, but really the the cool thing about the Jenkins logger is it makes the Java logging facilities trivially available for a user of Jenkins. So that the new versions You can set. Okay. So just to redirect you. It's a good issue First issue. Yeah. Yeah, and that one I think would be a good first issue So now in the way to identify that you used only redirects Yeah, that's it. So template two will be prepared to change Very good. So we need to see all yellow meetings. Maybe another time to not take our meeting time What do you'll get? Yeah, but this is this is these are great candidates for for for example The one that you highlighted here in yellow static analysis in pipeline static analysis is quite a popular topic And so having having that correctly redirect will probably be a big help And point it to the warnings ng plug-in Rather than to to this Because I think yeah, in fact, this is early documentation of Warnings ng this is but it's frozen in time now. And so the current documentation for it Is is on the plug-in page There is a plug-in. So after this tactic a pipeline But there's so what there is is there's a plug in there. Yeah, so there is a plug-in page. Oh, I didn't know for Let's see Jenkins Jenkins warnings ng so this plug-in Has has the Has documentation and introductory video All sorts of of great guidance for users and this is the redirect For that page. So yeah, this is this is a really good one that you detected because It should be only a redirect Because much better information is now available from the plug-in site than from that wiki page The next one i'm getting out of memory. Maybe say obviously content tools about the developer I get Yeah, see and I would have thought this would yeah, so this was I would think this is an a An administrator topic, but that we would have had something like this already In on jankins.io. That's Let's see You don't Interesting. Okay. So so that that one looks like See I would have expected it to be somewhere like system administration And be a page here On on diagnosing Jenkins. In fact Meg, didn't you tell me that that there are presentations at devops world on diagnosing Jenkins? There is yes Yeah, but we don't have a topic about diagnosis. So for example, we have another a talk Talk about a common way horse on Jenkins or how handling errors or something like that We didn't we don't have one kind of the destination to put You're you're correct. This would be brand new material. You're absolutely right. This this doesn't seem to exist as As the information that's here is not anywhere on Jenkins.io that I can see So What did you think about a new page a new section or nothing? Yeah, so I I would propose you know, let's tell me what you think I would I would propose making it a A new a new page new page in sysadmin section and something like Now I need to edit it Out of Or maybe we should just call it diagnosing Jenkins errors Oh common errors Even better. Yes. Very good common errors or maybe it's just diagnosing errors Yeah It's a good one because because really it's That gives us a place to put. Hey, what about out of memory? What about of what about? Excessive garbage collection. What about Oh, things got slow and I need to find out why Right. What's your stack trace and how do you read it and right? Yeah, exactly Yeah It's not the directory. Hey, let's do that with Jenkins. It's Java but We will help you to use Jenkins better Right, right exactly. Yeah, and we do have a session on diagnosing diagnosing memory leaks Um, and we have another one on called demystifying debugging screw logging Oh, and now now. Okay. That's a that's an interesting one I think we would be we could be potentially allowed to embed the video recordings of those into these pages I hadn't I haven't checked with cloudbies to see if they're willing to allow us to After the conference is complete embed videos of those into jenkins.io pages, but Maybe let's let me put that as an action item for me to see because We've we've done it before with with video recordings of other conferences Are we allowed to embed? Uh Conference so dev ops world Session recordings In the docs I'm also hoping to put them into the cloudbies training but um Having being able to actually do that mark knows the sad story so And I I see no problem if it shows up in both places actually Right. Yeah, that's great. Okay In the next case if it's not allowed to embed that we can solve the video and replicate samples Like our property content Right Just get the idea from video Create anyone Absolutely Yeah, if someone wanted to To rephrase just that for me feels like a lot of work that I'd rather not do if and And it doesn't help promote their videos either So they may they may actually like that. Hey, we placed it there. So it helps promote the fact that they did this video The one slight problem. I don't know is that They may mention cloudbies in a way that will make the community unhappy Right, so we'd have to review the video to be sure. Yeah and I uh I've seen the demystifying Through logging video and it's excellent But I'm I think that they've done it's pretty much stuff that's applicable to both the open source and cloud bci, but I think there may be more Uh There's definitely something where it talks about a feature you get in cloud bci that's not in there It might aggravate the community. I don't know right valid point Okay Okay, yeah now So go ahead. There is the issue you open. Uh, it's a good sample Building Jenkins is a 100 percent about development So just go there. It's about the check out of the source from Jenkins um and build with maybe Move on So This kind of content that needs to be integrated to Jenkins.io or not because it's the same inside the Readme.jng file And and we've got a maybe only a direct for this page Yeah, so we've got well, we've got um, let's see do we have it Compiling Jenkins from source I thought we had that already on Okay, I don't see it immediately. All right, so that's I thought we had in so for instance We've got a tutorial for plugin development But this is not Jenkins core. This is a plugin that depends on Jenkins core. Good point. Good point. Maybe a new patient tutorial That that could be or or let's see. I thought there was yeah, and I don't see one here that talks about How to build Jenkins so there's Jenkins CLI So so this so it looks to me like this information is not there And and it might justify either a tutorial A second tutorial, which is how to do how to this is this is the more common one, right? Hey plugins most people don't have to build Jenkins But if you want to build Jenkins we might put it maybe in a how-to guide or Yeah, that Yeah, so I suspect we may want to do a how-to guide how to build Jenkins from source Or how do you have Is it possible to break up that how-to guides into subsections? I I think it must be I mean you see the the leading keyword and code I know that I would say it looks obvious I'm thinking the old rule of seven and I'm thinking that list is already getting hard to read Well, and I know I wonder this this concept of how-to guides May actually be generated From data in the documentation That says it's a how-to guide about this topic. And so this this thing might in fact Be already something we couldn't in the in the ruby code that generates this page Do follow your guidance mag and Create Substance or headings And then place the topics under the heading so extensibility security views et cetera Yeah, so basically the developer and documentation so maybe there is no big problem It's so program actually developers can't read I don't I don't mean they're illiterate. I mean that most developers way of getting information is not reading And uh, yeah, yeah, I know With our life mag I've spent most of my career documenting for Developers and I I've actually done tests. I can put any crap at all in a paragraph and ask them to review it And they will see tables. They will see lists. They will see charts And and I can put some absurdity in a paragraph and almost nobody will catch it Yes Yes, I'm sorry. I uh, I guess I didn't turn on uh the microphone. I would Email saying that this meeting had been cancelled. That is why I just Oh, oh, so so that was that I we had cancelled last week's meeting It should still be my apologies. Maybe I made a calendaring error And didn't have it on this week's but I We're definitely back on I'll forward it to you again, blad We only we cancelled last week because nobody came so we didn't cancel before nobody came Well, I think wasn't last week a national holiday. No, it wasn't two weeks ago two weeks ago. Yeah And the last week was in you and I sat and right so so I'll I'll forward you another invite blad that way you've got it Mm-hmm. Thank you well, uh mark we were out Almost in the last minutes of the meeting you you want to go to the next stop Let's do I think we made good progress there Yeah, and the progress we made is a good lead in to the next topic. So let's take it just briefly Okay, so beginning october 1 We have hacktoberfest and hacktoberfest Is an invitation for people to engage with open source communities The incentive is if you contribute four pull requests To an open source community during between october 1 and october 31 Digital ocean will send you a t-shirt That says that you contributed to hacktoberfest And if you wish they'll also Instead of sending you a t-shirt they'll donate by planting trees instead so you can choose either The page here describes places where you can contribute I just submitted the update on this page this morning And boldly included the jankin's website what we're talking about here As one of the featured projects with our list of good first issues As candidates that they should be considering working on But we've only got 11 good first issues and last year I think we we we completed 10 or 15 ish good first issues in the first week or so So so we'll be we should look for more good first issues For for the for the jankins.io website So that was and that was my intent there. We may also do a And a recording session or a media session To highlight how to contribute to documentation Like we did last year. We might we might want to A sometime in october say here's how you can help with jankin's documentation So you will record another video about the how to contribute That's that's what I was thinking is and I thought this time it might be fun Jonathan to have you be one of the presenters and vlad be one of the presenters and me be a presenter And we could rotate through the three of us Saying hey look here's here's this piece of it and here's this piece Maybe jonathan we have you show how to do a redirect or you know Each of us chooses a piece and we consider doing it sometime during october Okay, you'd say good points So we result two issues with the I think Right So vlad would you be willing to be part of that kind of a meet-up to be one of the presenters and I'd be one and jonathan Yes, I would be glad And also tomorrow i'm presenting on the meet-up which was organized by cdf and i'm going to talk about jankins and Well going to engage new commerce to jankins and saying that jankins is well Not so complex as some people think and so you can easily start contributing to jankins This is kind of the message that I would like to deliver And i'm going to talk about Jenkins and docker and also say how it is possible using official jank docker image to Call docker agents inside Um Pipelines declarative pipelines something like this something Tutorial like Which we Still have I guess on jankins.io is still pointing to outdated Jenkins CI blue ocean docker image right We had intention of substituting it with With official docker image So i'm going to present it tomorrow see how is the feedback and In case if they will be no Well Somebody will accept it. Well in this case I may consider updating tutorial as well Excellent. Thank you. That's great If we want first issues have we i'm back to this um terminology change thing Which is way heavy It seems to me that it's Appropriate points and quote unquote because I we need to define that We need a quick page that talks about the the terminology change being made and why it's being made and this sort of stuff and To translate it so that people You know There's going to be a point of time where people are going to have to deal with the fact that some of the docs are going to Say master and some are going to say controllers And you know and this sort of thing and then That's a ton of that's good first. All I have to do is understand how to you know Do a github branch and edit ascii doc and You know, that would be wonderful stuff to have a whole bunch of people You know, we we had enough participation We might be able to uh get get that largely done in octoberfest You know if if we get a large number of sort of naive users who just want to get into it Yeah, so that's that's that's very good That one would need that might lobby us towards the technique that templated issue report that That jonathan has been doing Of we maybe we put that as one of our topics actually converting terminology well, uh but a issue just A converting terminology may be caused to us some problems for for example, uh, imagine if a thousand of pages just receiving prs. We have a dq 200 just update the terminology terms without a review the content and update the content I think yeah Yes, so I was assuming that in order to not get 10,000 tiny little pull requests that just change the word once But we did that we would break we would assign things by sections in the issue list So here I was going to do a quick check just to see I think if we do a get rep minus l master We can identify some pretty quick. Okay, so blogs have actually been converted already as a section and What else has I believe change logs have in in this one, but for instance administration as a section has not been touched and Managing as a section hasn't been touched. So those might be reasonable issues as a group to say convert all of the pipeline references to master convert all of the system administration to master Yeah, it's better. I guess it's better by section I mean for instance security Let's do Minus and even that Yeah, so so the security advisories. I know have been converted because Daniel Beck did those very early but others for instance google summer of code We've got lots of places we could do those conversions and do them as as blocks or groups I guess it's a good issue first good first issue Yes, just a replace content I think so. Yeah, I would think that And and it's a section so it's not so large that they risk being overwhelmed by They made a change and their review and the change they made was flawed and the reviewers rejected it and threw the hopeful request away Right, whereas if you're just on a single section A change is probably a mistake is relatively small And can be corrected without without destroying the entire pull request Right. Okay. So uh for the next meeting Can you open these issues up about sex because you have the content with you Yeah, are you noticing that you have the next bullet issue is terminology change issues also Oh here, let's put it. Yeah, so so let's put it there. Good. So let's do it that way We could put it in the in our video in our meetup session and Proposed sections. So if here's Jonathan, I think this is what you were requesting, right? Is could we just have some proposed sections for it and Put those into the list and then generate issues for them Exactly because as I said today 1st of October it's Next hour Maybe two weeks to register all week. All right Yeah, so so let's say let's go with Actually, and I can do this. I think I can do this separately. I don't need to make everybody here Wait for it. Let me just From mark So I'll just prep them. I'll get it into this document so that we don't go over our ending time and and then Jonathan if you or if you and glad together can can combine to create good first proposed issues for those That would be great or create one and notify me and I I can look at it and we can talk about hey How's the phrasing on this and once we get an initial one, of course then we create many of them Mark have we noted the the thing to look at the how-to the list of how-to guides and see if that could be broken up by into Can everybody know the rule of seven or is that common parlance, but Better format Really, it's raising GitHub issue To better format How-to guides Yeah need headings or some other Form of organization Instead of one giant list Meg do you want to be the one to raise to raise that github issue? I guess I could I've never let me see if I can do that I have not done that, but I should be able to right You absolutely should be able to you just click the green new issue button over there. Okay And it will take you through what type of issue it is and you can describe it. Okay. I will do that Excellent Oh Mark, I just wanted to mention continue this terminology stuff which Meg mentioned I noticed that he was searching for master Uh, my understanding master is kind of outdated term which is going to be replaced by controller Correct. That's right And it looks like there is There are not many sections where controller is mentioned in all the communication. So there will be a lot of kind of change right Yeah, exactly glad you you you got it precisely that That we know we've got many many places where those two transformations have to be made And then we have a white list and black list as well But those need uh, they those have a more involved fix They actually need phrasing work usually to improve the phrasing Any anything else We need to change we need to explain the terminology switch someplace Where is the right place to do that in this set? Do we want it at the beginning of each of these guides? Yeah, I would I would I would prefer personally just a hyperlink because long term we hope people will just Stop being confused by it, right? Right. It's it's an interim piece that needs to go away Right, and we've got uh, if we look for for instance, let's look for Let's pick this and we'll look for a different one. It's Slide omics, I think Nope slide omics No, okay. I've got to find Alex's blog post Alex url blog post Terminology Here we go slide omics Nope, it wasn't him who we've ever Jenkins terminology, sorry Just a minute and on Jenkins terminology up. Oh, this is from markey jackson, right? Okay So so this one is the the introduction to it and then Then it continues with There are actually there's a more recent post on oh, this one is the most recent This one is june where where it was updated and then alex url posted one on the continuous delivery foundation about The next next level of this it is no, no, that's not it. Sorry. I can't find it here trivially That's we can work. It's something to think about as we're looking at stuff during the week Right. Absolutely. And then where do we put links and what do they look like is still an issue, but Yeah, because what I'm thinking is for if people are going to try to make um For pr's that get them a t-shirt That a lot of people might at the beginning do one of these and then be able to go on move on and do something a little More interesting Right, right. That's that's a good point. If your first experience was oh, yeah, that was pretty simple You may say oh, I'll try more of more something more interesting or more challenging And we do include that the instructions about doing this explain the special circle in hell for anybody who does a global search and replace No, although that's a that should probably be in the in the Template that we are intentionally working through these section at a time because It's too much. It's we will reject pull requests that propose to change everything. They're just too large We think it needs more thought. Yes, although, but will you see that and how I did that? I'm not You would see each line that got changed, but if you know, you've got to read them You've got to read them, but to somebody who's never been through these as we all know this somebody who's never been through this as a reader It's like not a big deal. You just do a global search and replace and you're done and Yeah, we we've all We've all seen that one right But uh, yeah Okay, I think we've covered the topics. We've covered a number of topics I propose we call it done for today and we can we can Carry this forward. We'll meet again in a week outstanding Thanks, everybody Thank you. Thank you everybody. Have a good. Oh, um, I won't be here next week All right minutes afterwards. Sorry Jewish holidays All the best to you make enjoy. Thank you. I intend to Take care everybody