 Hello everybody and welcome to another interview with the artist We're back again and joining me second time on the show and I couldn't be more excited to have him back One of truly the greatest Miniature artists in the world certainly the what I what I think of when I think of miniature artist This is somebody like Matt is somebody who brings art to this hobby in a way that very few other people in this world do It's Matt DiPietro. How you doing brother? It's very good to have you back on the show I'm doing great Bence man. What an intro. Thanks so much It's it's why I try to do you know, it's absolutely earned as everybody's gonna see from the pieces we look at today I often eschew the word artist for myself because I know I'm such a Technomancer like I'm so focused on on very sort of Wrote explorations of things, but you are like you are what artist means You create emotion and a lot of really moving stuff in your pieces that I I myself find incredibly inspiring All the time so we're gonna get into all of that today Don't we're gonna look a lot of what Matt's been doing recently And I thought We're just gonna start right off the headline of the show one of the reasons we're doing this We're all very excited because We can all get a piece of Matt's art and be inspired because I think perhaps may haps a Kickstarter launch today that's already funded and I thought we just kind of talk about that first right up top so people understand What's what's going on out there? So you want to you want to talk about the Kickstarter a little? Well, absolutely Bence. Yeah It's the art of manager monthly and This is you know the manager monthly is of course the patreon which I teach at and I'm part of with Erin Lovejoy and Elizabeth Beckley and we got together with Dave Taylor managers and We decided to make a book about our art presenting our art from different perspectives and It's not a book just about you know, you're not gonna see you'll see some work in progress To present the concepts that we're trying to talk about but you're not really good It's not the typical manager painting book where it's like, you know a bunch of step-by-steps and stuff like that We want to explore concepts at least that that's what You know that that's my take on it. So my portion of the book, which is you know big fat section It's about My own personal journey, but then also talking about you know my approach to art. So there's a lot of method in there and then I decided I really like if I'm gonna write I might only get one chance to Write a book and this is my first chance to really kind of talk about my views about making miniatures into art and Talk about it in such a way to maybe You know talk about my own personal journey my own art, but also to help inspire others to You know be feel like they can express themselves through their through their managers, you know And I think that because for me, that's like what what art is it's like You're you are expressing yourself and you're expressing maybe idea or maybe just an emotion You know, but it's like putting a bit of yourself into your work. So You know I think that that is something that You know, maybe is a little bit different for managers I'm not the only person doing this either, but Yeah, like I think that it's something that anybody can do to Regardless of your skill level or at least have an aspiration to do so, you know Yeah, 100% and I'll tell you what I'm really excited about this So so I just want to for people who might not be familiar I'm gonna break this down real quick with a couple critical elements like so this is for you As you mentioned it's in partnership with Dave Taylor. Dave is an amazing person great artist in his own, right? And just a very inspirational person Dave This is on a personal level it helped me a lot over the years because he judged a lot of work that I did and gave me Excellent feedback. He was always an amazing judge For work that I didn't really helped me think about miniatures and miniature painting in a great way He's done several books before And delivered on these previous Kickstarter. So, you know, you're getting quality. This is this is what he does He can make these really amazing books if you're familiar with his past works that they were wonderful and There are there are There are three different books. This is volume one through three in this Kickstarter But the you can choose kind of the individual book you want if you back the Kickstarter And I believe it's $40 off the top my head for the miniature monthly book if you back it Which is like which is an incredible deal. This is one of them. This is one of the best deals around because Look yourself Aaron and Elizabeth All and I mean this in the truest sense. You were all very different artists Right each of you had like produces very different pieces And so just the value here of being able to see the journey and the thoughts of each of you in that book I mean, I don't that's That's a heck of a deal is what I'll say. This is a big fat tome that you're gonna be able to get Basically in hardback because I'm sure you guys are gonna hit that stretch goal pretty fast I think we're having a way I can't I haven't checked in the last couple hours, but I think we're pretty close Yeah, I funded earlier today in between when we were and I were initially talking today And then when I went through to like actually make the to set everything up for the stream It hit funding and just kept going up So you don't even have to you don't have to worry about back and something enough funding This is already done. You're you're just getting a chance to get this insight from an artist like Matt Cool stretch goals coming up and we I mean we we've been just been really like, you know Surprised and humbled by the response because I mean, I know that we were talking about it It's like, oh, well if we put we fund the first couple days that'd be really great, you know And it I think it took less than four hours. So we're just really Yeah, we're just really excited that's gonna happen That's great. And so check that out. The link is in the description There's you can go see all the details and Dave has a nice video and stuff like that So you can go watch Dave talk at the camera and you can see all the all the different images and stuff like that I want to actually get into it a little bit because like it's cool The Kickstarter is awesome But I actually want to talk to you about you're making your part of the book at the same time Because I think that's fascinating. So you mentioned that, you know, you wanted to set up your journey your thoughts, right? What what's the heart of when you were trying what you're trying to communicate through the book? What would you hope people walk away from through, you know, your section in in the book? Yeah, I think that while I really split the the book my contribution up into Well, three parts like the first is a little bit of is kind of short and a bit of an autobiography In case people didn't know who I was or, you know, um Maybe they had seen my work, but they didn't know everything about me. So like just a little bit like that but and then Um, I wanted to have the second book in a second part of the book um be about uh, like my approach to painting so um people know about how I do a lot of value sketching painting painting in black and white to start with um to study The lighting on the figures. So and then also talking about lighting and and all this stuff because Values like a really important part probably the most important type of contrast on your figures. So playing around with more exotic type Ways and like what's what makes a good use of value and stuff like that. So while It's not step by steps. It's like talking about different concepts and breaking into sections um, and then And then also I a lot of times will take those Those value sketches and then add some undertones of color. So um And the in these approaches are actually, you know they're very, um Like old master styles, right? They've been yeah, this has been stuff like verdaccio and grise and these other kinds of influenced concepts It's been around for hundreds of years, right? This is this is how the old masters would have Depending on which sort of area of the world you're talking about would have thought about these kinds Yeah, and this part of the book I have called ancient methods and infinite possibilities So it's kind of talking about these as like big concepts Undertones as big concepts then going into specifics and then hopefully The artist can get the idea of it's like, oh, we'll have some examples here But you know, I can come with some other creative way or see something in nature that I want to represent and now I have the tools for that um So I talk about yeah verdaccio is one of the types of undertones Another is like triadic undertones and different types of undertones and then I talk about how to like How what the next step from there is and how to how to bring that into like, you know Continue the painting and and eventually finish it but then like The thing is though, like I wanted to segue into talking about art because um miniatures has gotten to this point where it's kind of like you're we're at this tipping point where You know this there's people making like expressing themselves and expressing I like truly expressing ideas and miniatures And I wanted to have the second part of the book or I guess the third part of the book be about You know miniatures as art like, you know, how Like kind of give some strategies about how I've I've gone about expressing myself in my work, you know And so some of it is talking about each individual case study And then of course you get nice big blown up beautiful pictures of the work as we talk about it and then also get like kind of the thought in the behind the decisions being made and You know the symbolism and then also about like my strategy about how I want to Interact with the audience and how I can strategies to bring the audience into the experience And stuff like that And then I also want to talk want to talk about like The significance of competition and in miniatures a little bit and how we can kind of Approach because like I mean a lot of people who I wanted to talk a little bit directly to the people who might be, you know Really good painters who want to you know get better Maybe they're and they're thinking about competing in, you know Manager painting competitions and stuff like that And like talk about what's important about these competitions, which isn't actually winning. It's a bright what's important is like Presenting your work and finding an audience And it's definitely possible to like win a word and not actually make a connection with the audience And it's definitely possible to like not win and totally make a strong connection with people Who are going to remember your work so which I think is more important and it's also a more healthy way to compete you know, right Because then it's about like your own personal achievement and expressing yourself Which I think is attractive to you know, somebody who's competing at that level And yeah, there's a lot more in there about That and then just kind of like my own personal journey And it's interesting what you said before about your own Uh experience and just being about exploring technical aspects of painting And I don't think there's anything wrong with that like I think that that's like a journey that every artist is going to be on Um, it's just that some people want to express, you know And I think you do express yourself like in a way in your work, of course, you know sure But it's just You know the things we can say With the work, you know might be different, you know, but uh, like I think sometimes people get into kind of a prison of Of being just about technique and trying to just be making their painting more and more technically advanced, you know And not having not trying to I want my work to be about elevating Um the art Yeah, I often wonder if worker when when we hit the wall on that, you know Because I think back to you know, we mentioned the old masters and and journeys through things like rose and verdantio And other types of underpainting and all these techniques used by you know, throughout the the early mid to late renaissance and I think about How eventually that kind of hit a wall of just like doing more and more and more Quote unquote realistic or or whatever you know, whatever you want to take on it, right? Like I don't I don't want to use a loaded term But like, you know that world eventually hit a wall art became not just about like creating this really realistic Painting that was that would that portrayed the the figures in front of you But about communicating a lot more than that, right? And that's not taking away anything from from People who were doing traditional work before the impressionists come along or anything like that, right? Yeah It's just saying that we did eventually have this this movement that became over the last 150 years That has become very different. That's not to say there's not still people doing plenty of traditional art What what I'm thinking of there, of course there is um But and so it's not like I'll I would ever expect quote unquote just like All right, the the words here are so loaded. You know what I mean, but yeah It's like I'm trying to navigate this minefield It's not like I would ever expect quote unquote like normal miniature painting or whatever we want to say, right? To go away in other words like here's a really good-looking space marine or something that looks like a good space marine You know, whatever it happens to be But I wonder if we start to see the big influence of like people really exploring and pushing Interpretations even on 3d surfaces, right? There's the same way that artists did on canvases Well, the great thing is like it's already happening and we can be a part of that movement but at the same time like, you know I painted a ton of gaming miniatures and this and I loved I loved a lot of that, you know, that's my roots You know, we can have that be part of the my journey to and I'll still paint, uh, you know Gaming stuff too is just you grow as an artist and you change and you want to explore different things You know what your art means to you changes Um, and what it means to me doesn't lessen the value of other people's work. You know, um You know me. I'm not about that at all. You know, I'm about lifting people up and You know giving them the tools they For them to succeed and allowing them to choose, you know, what what what they want it to mean Yeah, I mean you were the first person I ever heard use the phrase paint bravely, right? Like you were the originator at least as near as I can tell of that concept And I mean that concept has caught fire all over the place, right? Like that is something that I've seen a lot of people internalize And that was something you were leading the vanguard on years ago And so that's I think always been your mo to to encourage people To to really try to express themselves to push themselves not just in the technical ways though That's valid. There's nothing wrong with that But also in like what do you want to say? What do you want to be here? You know, how do you want to achieve something? What do you want to communicate? What's the impression you want to leave on your audience, right? And and You know in any almost any other sort of artistic medium That's just part of the thought process It's kind of funny that in miniature painting. We don't take that as as an assumed Sometimes because I think about like Authors who write a book, right every author who writes a book There's something you're trying to communicate with your story, right? The author's like, I want to I want this to be communicate this kind of feeling or this kind of thought It has to be a it's a it's a spooky scary story about you know, what it's like to be Alone when you're a kid and feel like your parents are just like whatever, you know Told through weird monsters or boba dukes or whatever, you know But like we don't we don't we don't often have those same thoughts in in miniature painting I feel like there's a real opportunity there for us to start thinking that way Yeah, we're really seeing like more You know independent sculpture and and You know more interesting subject more different subjects like sometimes it can feel like You know to someone who's immersed in the miniature world like Ideas are very recursive, you know and involved with Pop culture a lot, you know, like If a bust painter because a lot of times like, you know, somebody used sculpting a bust They're just trying to get by and they know that sculpting a bust of You know, Daenerys Targaryen is going to sell better than sculpting a bust of, you know, just Imaginary fantasy dragon lady. Yes, exactly or even even, you know, they might think that that's going to sell better than sculpting a bust of my own idea Which is too bad, you know But yeah, you see that a lot. So sometimes it can feel a bit like things are very recursive and stuff, but I think that The positive thing is like just the growth. I mean, I've been around for so long and like I mean I've been dreaming about making art out of miniatures for You know 20 years now, but it was completely impossible back then and now it's actually possible, you know And that's what's amazing. So I want to I want to inspire other people too to do the same thing and we're living in a world where it's becoming so much I think Uh, what do I want to say? More direct for artists, especially sculptors to bring Concepts to market whether because there's a lot more people out there who're doing casting now Or the proliferation of things like 3d printers I mean, it is an embarrassment of riches of stuff out there That you can that sculptors can bring to life for us to paint now Right or or if you're wanting to do the whole process for you to jump on that train and literally You know start from concept all the way through to you painting the thing It's it's a much different world than it was 20 30 years ago Right where to bring a miniature from from idea in your head to something you can physically paint and have on on there was Honestly pretty rarefied right that belong to a few rare people And you don't have to like have I think another concept that is out there is that In order for it to be art you have to create it from scratch It has to be one of a kind piece and all of this stuff It's like well, I think that making something that's one of a kind Is part of you know making it art like Your paint job can make a piece into a new idea Right, you know like And That is art And you shouldn't have to feel like oh well This is impossible. I have to sculpt something from like I have to learn how to sculpt in order to make this art You know like that's not true. You know you can make Uh, what's great about um our art form is that we can take You know sculpture and treat it like it's our raw material Right and cut it up and change it and or just like you know Slash it up with your painting and make it into something that is embody some sort of idea and and uh make it something different, you know, and yeah, of course learning how to sculpt is Like part of being able to increase your options of how to do that And that's why I've been learning how to sculpt as well I'm not quite good enough to sculpt something that I love. I actually want to paint from scratch You know, but I can do pretty good conversions like uh, I I think I sent you some pictures of the miles boralis. Yep, which we'll get again too, but um, yeah, it's been good Yeah, right on Okay, so before we get into the actual art, which I want to get into here soon But I also want to talk about what you've been doing over the last, you know, year and a half This has been a time of some stress for a lot of us. This has been a time where You know, uh, maybe some of us have thought like, oh cool We can redouble our efforts on our art and then only to come to realize that's actually really hard because Of the world that's going on around us, right? It's not it's not exactly an easy time to maybe express yourself in a free way I think when there's you turn on the news every day So what have you been doing the past year and a half? How are you thinking about your art right now? Uh, and just maybe you also I know did a lot of like In-person teaching your your studio was set up to to actually host people to come out to your Your very beautiful location, which we'll look at a couple a couple pictures of as well later on and Uh, and obviously that I'm assuming wasn't happening. So, you know, what have you been going on? Yeah, it was like it it's one of these like it's like a bolt out of the blue Obviously like it happened to all of us, you know with covet and uh, but for me It I mean it's not only just the fear of the pandemic and what that means for my family and everything but uh You know, like it's like two-thirds of my business just disappeared All the in-person learning both at at conventions than in my studio, you know, it was just gone So, you know and what that meant financially and everything for us It was it was scary, you know and very stressful, but as a small business owner you you just got to like be um adaptable and You know, I dove right into Um teaching online Through online coaching. Yeah, which is something I had avoided up until that point because I was I had my misgivings about online coaching and just because like You know, I thought that there would be this barrier there. Um But I was like actually really pleasantly surprised by what I could do With my coaching and actually some of the seeing some of the advantages of the online teaching as opposed to the in-person learning Um, and just the differences and trying to take advantage of that um, because You know, normally before I would do in-person learning Uh, and it would be like a really intense sessions, you know, even either at a convention I'm trying to just like impart as much into The teaching as possible and then try to get some time with every student so that I can correct and Where they might be struggling with the information So it's like really intense And you only get just that like snapshot with the person, right, right And it's not until like a year later Where you're back at the same convention and maybe you see the same person Again in another class that you can talk to them about how things went, you know or like, you know Uh, and you and and I mean But with like the online coaching, you know, I'm seeing these people once a month twice a month sometimes weekly um, and we're able to You know work through the concepts and get um And see the growth And I can like influence the growth as as they're growing throughout that year of coaching um, and it's just Been really good. I've been able to see people grow And you know, I have a really positive experience. There's Things that it's not as good at like, um, it's really some you know, people usually don't have a camera Where that you I can see them, right? Sure. They're not like set up to stream back to you as they're painting. Yeah Yeah, most of them like, you know, every once in a while you have somebody is like, oh, yeah, I stream we don't But uh, you know so That makes it hard for me to actually see What they might be physically doing wrong. So I have to you know Try to just rely on Demonstrating and being able to talk more in more depth and detail about these very meticulous motions of the brush and what you're doing and stuff like that um but Yeah, it's been really good and Yeah, like, um How have you found creating pieces during this time? Like, you know creating new stuff Yeah, yeah, like I mean, I found it actually really difficult I think that a lot of other artists have found the exact same thing where If you're really under like stress and uncertainty and like all of this like emotional roller coaster that we were all on Last year. Yeah, yeah, lots of different reasons um You know, it's just really hard to to to You feel like there's less In your cup. Yeah, I don't know like, you know, there's like less less energy but You kind of have to just be ready for when inspiration does strike you um And and then, you know, put the work in when you have the energy So I was really happy that in the end I was able to Create a few pieces this year that I was really really happy with In addition to completing other commissions But um, yeah, it was uh, it wasn't easy to complete them At the time um Because you just stressed about so many other things and it's like hard for you to like focus your emotions on what you want to portray Right because you don't want to portray Stress and anxiety in your art, you know, unless that's what's your what you're about but uh Like me personally like I'd prefer my art to be about Something other than stress a little more positive subjects. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. Yes Like I'm sure I could make some a piece of art that made people feel really stressed out Maybe that's not what I want to do right There's there's probably enough of that going on around Yes, it's pretty easy to find stress in this world It's pretty hard to find something that That uh, that makes you feel more at ease or makes you feel Positive I guess in some way, you know that that brings that that sense of emotion to you. Yeah, absolutely And then that stress about the job and and the uncertainty It like makes the work hard harder because then the work actually starts to become about Like trying to solve this other problem rather than about making it making the work and expressing yourself or whatever so I had to find other ways to To de-stress and like Maybe get a little bit of like peace and calm and everything and so, you know, I learned to kayak We're right next to the ocean and so we did a lot of that during the summer and then I also Made this Japanese garden into my side yard Nice with a pond and and everything and yeah Like it's been keeping them almost like a new creative outlet for me Sure Doing that so that's been really great. And uh, I mean, we'll see some pictures of that later Nice. Are you uh, are you going to be able to so so now that we're We're hopefully on the let's let's call it the upswing. Let's say it that way We can see light at the end of the tunnel that's definitely not a train Uh, so are you looking to get back into some in-person teaching as well? You're going to continue your online coaching also, you know, you're going to kind of mix and match Both now going forward. Yeah, absolutely. I have a good plan. Um, where I can mix the two together and I I'm getting my second covid shot here and really soon So I have the studio scheduled to open back up for in-person learning Um, starting in June June 1st So, yeah, like my my calendar I'm already starting to book some clients and really getting excited to seeing people in person and being able to share um, you know My art with them in person and also just Where where I live and yeah the whole experience of of everything as well Um, just being able to sit down and paint with somebody else who's painting Like that alone is Something I have missed so much and gotten to do so rarely over the past year and a half And it's crazy because it was something I did so regularly before and it just took for granted Yeah, you know same Never thought about it like oh, this is just of course like yeah, whatever sure You know hanging with other people painting like yeah, okay nothing special about this just it's just a day Now i'm like my god The the the luxury that I was living in that I didn't even realize right To just sit there and share that experience with somebody and in real time Yeah, but I mean I think this I think it's kind of cool that That's a good way to look at it where you found some value in that because right year You found new appreciation and something that you know, you took for granted, you know A hundred percent. Yes. Yeah. Yeah never again. Never again. Will I take that for granted? Right? Yeah, if there's a chance to get together with another artist Just hang out do some painting talk about whatever talk about the art talk about, you know, just the hobby or anything like that Uh, I I can certainly say that that is something that I'm going to be uh Looking at with whole new eyes going forward in the back half of 2021 and 2022 and onward. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, well, maybe you'll have to come out sometime and we'll do the podcast. Oh, man, that'd be great Uh Absolutely, we'll do some painting together on the stream or something. Oh, that would be super fun. Yes. We we 100% always welcome happen at some point Uh, yeah, you live in a really beautiful area. So I would 100 love to come out. Yeah, we'll we'll make that happen at some point um by the way, uh All of the the information for if you're interested in learning from matt, which by the way you should be If you are the information for the patrion and all matt's information, that's all listed down in the description So you can go check that out. Um, so that's where you can sign up for everything and see even more pieces than what we're Going to review today because you have like your galleries and stuff So if you want to get some senses of of the kind of things you're going to see explanations for and things like that in the Uh, um in the book Uh, you'll get a sense there as well as just I mean Yeah, the number of pieces you have that are mind-blowing are far too many for me to list If you want to see even more than we're going to cover today, you can also go watch the previous interview that we did with matt back Uh, uh, what was that two years ago? Almost probably maybe longer. It seems like it seems like a lifetime ago Oh, yeah, I was just thinking that's like because it it somehow feels like a week ago and 20 years ago Simultaneously, I do not know how that's true, but it is I think everybody's sense of time is just completely gone all wibbly wobbly on us. Yeah, exactly It's distorted Uh, so yeah, you can go check all that out. Check out the links that kind of thing You want to let's uh, let's talk about some pieces shall we and we can kind of learn some other stuff All right, so we've had this guy up on screen the whole time this this wounded soldier I'm gonna flip kind of back and forth through a couple pictures of him They sent me but yeah, just tell me about this piece and uh, and you know kind of your thoughts here with this one Yeah, well, uh, this one is like a little bit of a heavy heavy one uh to start with but I think that It maybe is like a good example of how you can have an idea and sort of express it because you know, we A lot of times we have all these military subjects and it's fine We we can't enjoy You know making You know the middle these military subjects, but when it comes to like the vietnam war Which I think was like a really traumatic experience for people who live in You know like people are part of the american culture like even not having lived through it It's still it feels like you see we've still felt the effect of it, right? um, and I wanted to make a piece about that it was kind of inspired to and um So this one is actually like even though it might look like it's a stock figure It's actually a mash-up between multiple figures from young miniatures and life miniatures nice and You know, so I did a lot of conversion work for this piece and Like the idea actually came from a piece by Leonardo da Vinci which is St. John the Baptist and he's like pointing upwards towards the sky With like this light coming down. Yeah. Yeah, so That's kind of like the pose I was trying to show And the piece is like called going home. So like There's multiple interpretations to what that might mean for the for the viewer, but I kind of wanted to just like Give this like um very empathic Feeling of what that experience might have been like for You know someone who was drafted and sent to war during that time, so Yeah, I mean one of the things that is so always so rich in your pieces Is the emotion in like the in and around the eyes, right? Like that's As human beings we've had this evolutionary trait where we naturally look at eyes right and One of the things that's always struck me about a lot of your your work is how much you communicate through just like really Soft subtle things in the eyes. How well you capture kind of human emotion in in the eyes of figures and here again, I think that's just very much on display with the the way you've captured the the The placement of the iris and the and the pupil The red and the coloration the sort of way you accentuated just a little bit the the sort of darkness under the The bags the eyes as though like he's tired Right like you get the sense that this person has is is haggard Right has has gone through a travail just from like looking at this much of the miniature I get I can read that right And then the thing is like the miniature is actually fighting me a little bit on this because It has a smile right and in the sculpture The smile was in the eyes as well you know in the in the Sculpture of the eye so it looks like a true smile in order to um communicate this trauma and this and this uh, this You know travail he'd been through I had to make the eyes look Different, you know and not show the smile in the eyes And this and the if you look at the just the eyes You can see a sense of like anxiety and worry and You know all of these other emotions there and then to capture also this this smile And also a sense of relief in the lower part Creates that tension that I think like draws us in because it is this complex expression like we're we are We've evolved to put so much emphasis on Reading people and their emotions and what they're doing for just so many a number of reasons that when we are presented with the complex Expression or emotion like we can't help but try to like Engage with it look deeper. Yeah unpacking right we want we want to take it apart. Yeah Like and just to really hone everybody in here. I want to zoom back to the jump back to this picture When when a this is such a beautiful exploration of just like human anatomy and the way things work in in what you're in their piece here in subtle ways Like when a human really smiles they smile with like a genuine smile like warm sort of Like as you're saying they're like genuine happiness You tend to smile with your whole face like not only do you does your does your mouth go up? But like your eyes go up to your eyes react and tighten in a certain way, right? That's like everything on your face goes into that when it's more of a forced smile when somebody's like hey smile for the picture And you're not really happy and you're like You know, it's just your mouth. You just move your mouth, right? And you're you created these really nice subtle Shadows and like leading very subtle lines along the side of his eyes that still have them moving almost down and and You know contradictory to the way the mouth is moving to create this really like Subtle diamond shape that shows the complexity of emotion. It's such a just beautiful little touch But it says so It speaks so loudly. I just I love it. Yeah And for the listeners out there that want to make a genuine smile Like the two parts and the there are other aspects to You know give different flavors to the smile But of course, you know the the shape of the mouth Which I think we all know about but also crinkling in the in the corners of the eyes is like basically required There needs to be like a tightening in the corners of the eyes. Otherwise your smile will look fake There you go So yeah, really fantastic piece. Love the like there's there's just The other thing that I feel like we can't leave behind in this piece Is you are someone who always really explores textures in an interesting way And I think this is something that you know I everybody's gonna grab right onto and see this whether it be the fatigues or the canvas bags or everything like that The patch on his shoulder that feels, you know, very distinct from the rest of the the jacket that he's wearing, right? All of these different textures you're exploring I think so many of your pieces Explore texture and we'll look at a few more of them as we go Yeah, but this is just another great great great example of that Uh, not even touching on the color here the the way you've infused like this this, um This soft diffuse light from above Then met with this like very subtle kind of like orangish Glow from below, right? Yeah, which is meant to like represent the the travails as well The experience that glow from below sometimes people ask me about that But yeah, like the textures are like definitely something that I really enjoy like I enjoy Exploring technique and of course and I'm always trying to improve there too and stuff Um, which I think Everybody you know feels that way who's like watching you or you know Try I'm trying to learn and become a better painter. It's just I have a lot more hours on people but uh, you know, um Anyway, like uh, yeah the textures, especially the ripstop was really cool on that one where it's got like this little square pattern on the fatigues and um, it's just Can be a really fun subject to explore But also have it layered on top of the lighting and the mood that I'm trying to express It can create a really like, um Uh complex problem for you to solve as an artist But uh, like that is one thing that I actually do touch on in the book is about uh texture in some of the ways they approach that so Nice Yeah, and we'll see some more of that as we go along. I'm sure because a lot of your a lot of your pieces have that incorporated So we'll we'll definitely be looking at more of that. All right next up Uh, there's a lot of photos we've got of this guy. So again, I'm just gonna cycle through it This is our our color wizard Basically, right? So I know this was a piece alchemist. Yeah. Yes the alchemist. Uh, this is a piece I know that you shared it it absolutely knocked my socks off when you initially shared it I've seen a couple people's interpretation of this figure. Um, I think yours is absolutely my favorite I I love just all of the different Aspects you brought into this. So again, I'm just gonna cycle through these pictures and I'll let you Uh opine about it because this is I mean this piece is This is top notch. This is wonderful wonderful stuff. So just take us through this guy Yeah, I really felt like this piece of what I was working on this year was like The piece where I really felt like I made a step forward and and I don't know like it was an important piece in in my and my Growth and it just felt like it came if it if it if this was a normal year This would be the piece that I was bringing into shows to like, you know and everything but uh, yeah that I think it's a good example about how you don't have to change very much In a sculpture to like make it different and your own idea um, and of course like We can actually have a lot of anxiety with changing a sculpture That's like, you know, so well known or like by a really well-known artist like Lucas Pina Uh, but I just I want I'm If I'm going to make something that is like, you know for Taking to a show and that is at the pinnacle what I can do, you know, it's not going to be anybody's idea except for my own it'll be like my Conversation with the the sculptor and what he was trying he was presenting and then I'm taking that and make it and presenting an idea That's it's on top of that. So I actually did some resculpting of the face on this which was pretty crazy, but So because when someone gets old not only are other wrinkles, but um, Lucas has actually like made the jaw of his subject weaker Because like it juts forward and what what that's caused by is When you lose teeth if you if you lose like the upper palate or something like that, right? So on the young face, I needed to rebuild that and like make the The jaw strong and everything like that But it's really cool because like all you need to do is know anatomy And then you can kind of build off of what he already had there. So, you know, it's kind of easy mode But still making those changes was kind of a cool thing and I was happy that that turned out so much but let's let's just talk about a little bit about I can talk a little bit about um What the what the piece is about? he's like a The idea was like he's an alchemist, right and for me, uh, you know, the the alchemist is trying to find The philosopher stone to gain, you know, sort of eternal youth, right? and like I mean, that's impossible, but There are things that make us feel younger and make us feel like Like new again and and everything and for me, that's like art, you know that art does that for me and like you know color and And you know expression, obviously that's what we've been talking about this whole time. So like this piece is about creation You know, um, and it's about it's about those things that make us feel young again and our desire to you know for renewal, um so and then also about You know color and art and I think there's a lot of different interpretations, but Yeah, so, uh like he's discovered the philosopher stone and and um in Color, right? So like in his book there you can see um You know the full spectrum of color on on one side and on the other side I've made an alchemical diagram right And actually using alchemical symbols one's the philosopher stone that's in the middle, which is a prism And I've painted the sun um At the top so like it's showing the philosopher stone separating the light of the sun into the different colors. So it's kind of like Yeah, that's a prism for our lives and everything but um like it was a really tough painting and I actually I have a A rotational video of this I can share. Yeah, absolutely man. Bring it up. Yeah share that up You know while you're while you're bringing that up I just want to opine on this for a moment because One of the things that that just absolutely jumps out to me so much is how well you captured this Contrast of lighting, you know, you talked about the importance of value contrast at the beginning and just the the really how well uh The light here is captured this second in time right Where he's holding the bottle up and the way the colored light is being caught by his hand And then it's cascading down into this bright light down sort of the side of his face and down onto his His his robe and his chest and his shirt and the way we're getting these wonderful color infused shadows Right. Yeah, this these wonderful like blue tones that are all over the place the yellow tones that are up in the light Uh, yeah, it's just it's really really great Yeah, I think that uh, it was definitely like kind of the hardest paint job I've had to do because using all of the colors which makes The use of contrast a lot harder, right because um, and then also um Just the lighting was really complex. Um, but the idea is that all of the colors combined makes white light When you cast it So something that's close to, you know, all those colors that are on fire and is vile Will be we receiving white light um, whereas Something that's further away that light's going to have spread out and you'll get colored shadows Um So that's kind of the concept that I worked from you can kind of see in his shirt Maybe the most where the in the middle of that shirt area that is like, you know Sort of whitish light and then it turns into shut into, you know colors as you move further away Right, but then having it all work together with the free hand and and everything else was super challenging and then just making that Uh blended I don't know what you might want to call it the color wheel um Was challenging as well. So lots of fun things that um, I had never really done before um Yeah, this is such a crazy scene before even, you know, so uh, yeah I also really love the just look this is a minor thing, but I love the classic wizard hat Let me just talk about that for a moment. I'm glad you did The classic moons and stars wizard hat it's it's it's like some things are just classic for a reason It's you know, if it ain't broke, uh, it's it's wonderful And it it adds a bit of like whimsy To the piece is what I would say, right like again art can be fun, right like there there can be Uh, you know, we we can have like we can actually have fun with this We can have positive emotions and stuff like that and this the the the sculpt itself I think is a a sculpt that feels Even though this guy's old and he's doing this magic He has this great look on his face that seems a little mischievous Yeah And there's a sense of Wednesday to to it. Isn't there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Exactly. And so I think you know little things like that harmonize really well, right? It makes you Makes you feel like that so Yeah, really really great piece. I do I do love absolutely the way the the light diffuses and I mean this sculpt is An all-time classic and I love his little friends He always has does great little creatures and critters on there And I I do like how you're capturing his little friends in there as well and integrating them into the overall Uh, the overall color portrayal that's happening there, too Yeah, this piece comes with one other little friend a little fish But I took him and put him on another piece. Gotcha, which I'll I have a sneak preview of here in Coming up. Nice. Nice All right. Yeah, this is fantastic. Such a great piece. All right. So now let's move through a couple probably quicker ones Uh, so here is a I guess I'm going to call this guy a key ring I think that's what he would be But it's the big gold cat with a fishtail thing Uh, that situation right there. I he feels like a, uh What do I want to call it? Yeah, I think he's a key ring um So, uh, this guy, uh, tell me about this and what you ended up doing with this with this piece um so This piece that I uh I painted A little while ago, um during a class Talking about textures and things and I just thought you know, I was looking through With things I wanted to share. I hadn't really shown this one. Uh, it was just like, um Because I hadn't found a Base for it that uh, like really inspired me. This is what happens when you paint something that you really like but it's not for anybody You're just kind of like, uh, I'll finish it when I get around to it. You know, sort of thing But I thought it'd be fun to kind of show because people hadn't seen it some of the like really, you know Tiny textures and things that you can do. Um Yeah, I mean, let's let's just get an important thing out of the way here The scales that cover this this creature. Yeah Okay, like he's got scales all over him How much of those scales are on the sculpt? Oh, I see, uh, I thought you were talking about that the cat Okay, you're talking about the like Ah, yeah, the the um one with the fish scales. Sorry. Yes. Yeah. No, that's actually Merlion. I don't that's what that's what uh Runs with with Caesar's said Merlion, which I like So scratch that. I'm sorry. Sorry. I can't I couldn't actually see what Vince had on his screen. So But yeah, uh, no, this piece actually is for someone really special Uh, and this is actually like a really special personal piece for me. It's not quite done There's like a few things that I'm still getting finished, but it's for um For my mother-in-law. So she really wanted Something she just the all she came to me with was she wanted something that reminded me of my wife, you know Of her daughter and this is this is what I came up with it's a gold dragon and it's kind of like this underwater scene and and like it just it just like my wife a ginger so that's the ginger colors and stuff and There's a lot of really personal things in there that you might that, you know, the average person would wouldn't know about her that um about her love of the ocean and uh, you know Lots of little things that we're gonna that You know is special that she's gonna see that And everything but I wanted to show it. I haven't shown this one. Um, yeah, because Um, like I said, I'm still You know putting the file touches on it and stuff like the base the base rim is going to be black and not that wood color For example, but yeah, all of the scales are free-handed on there and they're painted In metallic as well as um, you know, of course the colors and stuff So that's one thing that I really enjoy doing. You don't see that often, you know Normally people are painting in not metallics, but which I love doing too but You know with a piece that's really big like this metallics start to like really Show their stuff and I like to kind of combine everything I know about lighting and and also painting not metallic metals and apply it to doing metallics as well so, um I was trying to upload a Picture of this Yeah, I think I have a a rotational video of this and maybe we can see Oh, yeah, that's absolutely. Yeah, I mean this is your your use of of metallics within I'll call it kind of interference colors Right on top where you're you're sort of borrowing some of the almost using the metal sheen as your um as you're under painting, right? It's really actually it's both you start with You're using both value and the metal sheen underneath to create the effect Yeah, but go ahead. Sorry. Yeah Yeah, like this is something I don't think I go ahead. Go ahead Instead of sketching in black and white you end up sketching in in metallic um And not metallic. So it's like uh similar but different Yeah, I mean the you're one of the really only people I see working with this uh in that way and I I think back to the first time I was struck by it and that's with the um The fishermen of Titan or whatever right the where you had the the fish on this the the sort of The astronaut fisherman's back that was done in that same pattern. It just gleamed Right, it's felt so much like fish scales and here again like you know a lot of that same Uh concept in play and I've seen it just a few times and it's always so amazing how much richness you're able to get out of this uh out of this sort of uh a tactic here Yeah, like uh, I definitely the ice fisherman of Titan was where I first started exploring this and It's just great to come back to it from time to time and use it when it really You know matters if you look closely one part I haven't finished is the little fish there in the lower left Which is came from the luke's penis sculpt nice Yeah, there you go. Um, but uh, I actually did a lot of sculpting of this myself Not of the cat of the dragon, but of the coral reef. Okay um, so the brain corals and the Cn enemies and different corals on the base and a lot of That um, I sculpted myself Um, so I think it turned out pretty nice and it was it's kind of fun to to do that. Um, and then I was able to Um, yeah to do a lot of Um applies a lot of the stuff from from my other pieces Um on this one. Yeah. Yeah Uh, it's a special it's a special one and it's great to To you know share it with people for the first time here. Well, I'm very glad you did. This is such a fantastic piece and I I really again like the combination of What's so fascinating is that the the Merlion or whatever we'll call him the key ring this is a gold dragon dragon. There you go. Yeah You know at first glance If you're just kind of looking at a surface level it feels like oh, he's a pretty limited color palette Right, there's not he's he's kind of like oh, there's not a lot of different colors there But then as you look You start to then discover all these subtle tones that you've incorporated in there That make him feel both more like he's underwater But also like there's a lot more complexity going on right it'd be easy to just a glance go Okay, yeah, it's mostly orange and yellow And then you really actually look and you see the subtle green hues the blue hues, right There's some of those purples hidden in there and just like that stuff starts to come out It's so subtle but so again impactful as to how it's creating the Transitions and the feeling that the creature of where it where it lives, right? and also trying to focus attention on on the most important parts and could give a Impression of like almost like a spotlight on the piece, you know In an increased depth and things like that. These are all things. I'm trying to play with and and And I'm really starting to have discussions with people about it too including in In my writing now. So, uh, yeah, it's exciting to be able to be in that place. Nice Yeah, all right So then next up I have the piece that I think you were I'm not sure if it's what you're talking about or not But yes, this next up is the Tobaxi or I always think of him as a kid sheet or whatever You know like it's what's in my head But yes our our cat person merchant here Which again Is a great example of both texturing and freehand designs, which you know, obviously what jumped out at me When I I remember you sharing a picture of this sometime back And like the cross I don't know what you would call it this sort of hexagonal crossed triangle pattern On the lower part of his scarf was mind-blowing to me because it is such a regular pattern And yet it feels so Uh, correct there. I guess is what I would say As well as then the all all these different individual patterns You've worked around on him to make all the dress that he's wearing feel exotic underneath but utilitarian Almost on top right like as though the as though he has this mixture Of like what he wants to wear and what he has to wear is kind of how I felt right Yeah, it's like his turban and stuff is where he is uh has his You know bling going on is kind of like is showing off his personality or is like, you know wealth or whatever And then he has more utilitarian overcoat right to it And that serves me artistically too because it it brings you to the face You know and then the other other things are still have really intricate textures So if you're looking at some other part of the model, you're still getting, you know, kind of a feast for your eyes there but Like I was saying this piece was more of You know, it doesn't have like some big concept that I'm exploring like some other pieces You know, it's more of like just showing my students You know all the different ways they or a lot of different ways to show Two different two concepts. So it's like textures and then patterns and how those are different, right? textures being Like a bumpy physical texture that you're trying to add to a flat surface or even render If it is bumpy and sculpted on the on the figure Because there's lessons there too and then patterns, which is, you know, like a surface Um Like differences of color, but it's like a flat surface, right? So The the star pattern at the bottom of the of the scarf, for example Um, and then also we talked a lot about freehand. Um, and how To paint that on like flowing fabrics and stuff like that. So um And all those those considerations and then it's it was really great class because uh, I was able to like, uh, you know, demonstrate and set And break it down into these like Little steps that I felt like anybody can do these little steps and then but then also those steps teach the concepts that you need to Know in order to be like I have another pattern that I want to do like how am I going to paint that on this flowing fabric and have it follow the the curves of the fabric um, and Yeah, it was really great. Um so Yeah, that's that's about it with that. Um easy enough Yep Sometimes they can be for some fun too. That's okay. That's all right. Yeah or demonstration purposes It's really weird like with all of the online coaching and all of the stuff I still paint maybe the same amount but i'm not finishing pieces Sure much more just like for demonstration But then these pieces like they're growing and I think that I think that they'll be just this burst where I just start You know finishing them off and and getting them out there and and they can be more just about Exploring technique and having fun painting, you know as well, you know, not every piece needs to be I don't know. Um, the Mona Lisa or Sure Absolutely. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about this fun piece here. Well, I got Miles Morales Uh, I mean You know, maybe everybody's favorite new spider-man So I started on the painted picture Here for a reason because I want to leave the other one for a reveal in just a second Uh, so I'll flip over to the second picture that that that in just a moment But yeah, tell us about uh miles Yeah, this was like a great, uh commission that um You know Someone I've been working with for a long time. Uh, you know wanted me to You know, he asked me because he had heard about me learning how to sculpt and everything and he Uh, asked me if I could do this conversion. Um, which was like really out there Uh, especially since like you can't really tell on the picture, but this model is like Very small I would say I don't know. It's like shorter than I think the quarter, you know, like uh, you could you could probably fit on the head of a quarter, you know, like like So it's pretty really really small uh but I was up for the challenge and he was up for letting me try it and uh Yeah, and I mean, I love the character. Obviously like it's uh, uh, what a great, um What a great character. So I was just really game for it and um Uh, but it was like, you know, I'd never sculpted um flowing Drapery before or anything like that Yeah, I flipped over now to the reveal shot, which is just, you know, what we started with The original sort of the gray plastic of the piece, right? And then what you added and so people can see just how much is on there I'll tell you the part that blows my mind, right? It's not the jacket. Like I like the jacket, okay? Or and and it's not the jacket or the pants sort of a change the leg edition But it's the shoes man them sneaks The tennis shoes like They came out really well I love it It's really hard like uh, because with shoes like that, you know You really you have to be really careful that It doesn't look like he has like gigantic Clown shoes on or something like that because Uh, you have like the layer of putty is like super thin and you have to really like have it be form fitting enough, but Yeah, uh, it was it was difficult. I really had to think about it before doing it And it's one of those things that yeah with sculpting. You want to kind of have uh, plan out your steps and beforehand Sure a little bit At least for where I'm at with my skill level Well, and that's another beautiful part there's never Uh about this this hobby, right? Is that there is never the end two things you can learn and the the journey isn't there There is no destination. That's not the point, right? It's yes. Yeah, the road goes ever onward That's the wonderful thing about art. It's like I like just think about it. It's like an infinite well like it's I mean sometimes it might Like you can always pull More out and and learn more and and finds more value And more new things to explore Out of it, you know And that's kind of magical honestly. Yeah All right, let's leave miles behind travel out of the spider verse And uh, then we're going to get into the pirate piece because there's quite a lot to this So i'm going to kind of take everybody Through the different uh pirates here And uh, I just want you to kind of talk about the you know, this The different pirates you did So this is interesting because it's like it actually has a This is a personal piece that I was doing to Kind of relieve some stress, but it's also about relieving the stress of covid Because this piece is as a tribute to My shipmates on sea of thieves Nice I've been playing sea of thieves, which is an online computer game where you get to be pirates and You're playing with other other players You know, you can be Just out there to go find treasure or you know do quests or whatever Or you can like be roving the seas trying to find other players and taking their like sink their ships and take their loot and stuff So it was a great little fun game, but it was how it was how I Stayed in touch with Some people who are really important in my life my brother and one of my close friends Some of my really close friends And I was actually able to reconnect with another friend of mine who I hadn't seen in years Uh who reached out to me, um during covid He was stuck. I mean you think he had a bad covid like uh, he was stuck in Jakarta waiting for As being able because he was on his way to emigrate to new zealand Oh Like he was just waiting there for his passport covid hits and he stuck there for a year It's insane, uh, so Anyway, we were we were roving the high seas and everything together and that's kind of the inspiration for this piece. So uh Like the viewers out there don't know these people but I kind of tried to like give the personality To each piece of one of my of my friends that probably um The one with the parrot is my brother He's so personally right now. So yeah, so like my brother's always like A bit more mischievous than I am. He's the one who who wants to go and like You know hunt other players and take their stuff And be a complete goofball while he does it so uh, I don't know like I wanted to because like I mean I love these pirates by lucas because he really gets it where like We have all these like Sort of whimsical fun things about pirates, right? Right and there's like whimsy and fun about it, but then he also like kind of injects a little bit of like Seriousness and edginess to it because I mean they're pirates. They're like in real life. They're terrible horrible people that like, you know so um Or you know, just blood thirsty Or cutthroats or whatever So like and in the case of this piece, he's like sculpted him with like missing teeth from uh from his uh And he's just like I wanted to kind of Give this impression of just being All of them are like a little haggard. They all they all look like they've been out in the sun forever like They all look just a little bit, uh, you know Like they've been through a lot, especially the sun damage to the skin and the uh, you know weather beaten Features and then to paint him like he's a ginger Like uh and everything, um was just kind of fun. Um, nice. Yeah Yeah, I mean I like all three of these guys have so much character that you brought out, right like the the uh The the mutton chops holding the cannonball Like again, I love the I love the tats which look like they were done on ship Right like the nature of them feel like they were done What, you know, this wasn't like a professional tattoo parlor was sitting down This was done with you know makeshift tools and and the ink feels very much like that, right Yeah, like a little weak and then that blues are showing through In the in the ink as well and that I don't yeah, I didn't want it to be like so meticulously crazy, you know because These guys yeah, like you were saying I wanted to kind of give that more You know on ship sort of feel to it right and the tattoos are all like Typical sailor tattoos they each have like their meeting um, and it was just kind of Need to find those things out too. Um, but mostly I was really like Trying to push myself to to paint this like really sunburn weather Skin to him where it's like yeah, it's like almost like reddish orange, you know like really intense, but you see that Um, you know with people who have been out there, you know on the Over and over people just live in the sun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like they get that weather beaten look and like it was just really fun to To to play with like trying to find how to do that through the layers and really make it look genuine And of course with all the lighting and everything else. Oh, yeah, I mean again integrate it into it It's it's worth mentioning but I That I hope everybody at this point's on board with understanding just how great the value Is here on the light how much is being communicated by like the direction of it the warmth of it But also then the under shading as well that like ocean color almost that's inhabiting the shadows right in this Turquoise sort of blue green tone down there that it feels like he's standing over You know near the the edge of the ship so that there's almost like the reflection of the water Yeah, all the models like there There's like light coming from below and sometimes on some of them you can actually see sort of like the reflection You know how when you're really close to water that's it can have that cost the the sort of like lines Yes, it casts um So I was just playing with some of that stuff on these and they all kind of have some of that um Showing on them and then our old guy the old guy with the blunder bus Super fun like you love an old pirate like this guy's been around for years He's still here still kicking. He's got this that big Wonderful mustache just like and his the again that you talked about with the like the lines in his face And how much those are sort of you know accentuated in there, right like this guy is he's uh, he's got the the Certainly seen many a storm, right? Yeah. Yeah, he's got that olive sort of skin and actually like I I took My memory of my grandfather's skin uh To inspire me for this one if i'm honest Uh, the actually just the face kind of reminded me of him but uh the character is more you know my friend quarry who uh I go pirating with but then also I was like pushing I was like having a lot of fun with the reflection in the blunder bus Yes, I wanted to actually like give the impression of the ocean um and being able to see that as well as like His body actually reflects a little bit in the in it and everything and um and just like playing with what I could do and uh experimenting with that, you know, it's really great like to see you know, uh To kind of like push A little bit into that area and and just really enjoy those reflections I'm sure I'm going to be doing a lot more of that in the future You know, um, and there's a lot of uh, there's some really great artists out there Who are also exploring that space, you know, of course Karel Kanaev, um one of my favorite artists in miniatures I think really just like blew the doors off of that one with some of his pieces over the last couple years So, um So yeah, like uh, it's a similar sort of effect or or Exploration, but uh, it's fun, you know, absolutely. Yeah Uh, great stuff. Okay. So then I think this is our last one. Yep. This is the last actual piece. So this is the Uh, I guess I don't know if he's a tautonic knight or The color crusader is the name of this one. There we go. Okay. Thank you. Color crusader. There we go. Yes the knight on the this is so Good matt. This is like I saw I hadn't seen this piece before by the way Until you said it to me like I saw this piece for the first time like two hours ago Okay, so I'm experiencing this basically with all of you audience I haven't heard of anybody really this is what I'm talking about matt when I talked at the beginning of the show You could give me 100 years Okay, and just let me lock me in a room to think about things. I wouldn't have thought of this. I just wouldn't have Okay, like it's not I am not constituted this way. My brain doesn't work this way This is where I am jealous of you so much in all the best ways, of course Uh, but yes using the actual like, uh, writing off of the paint palette on to then a sculpted You know, uh, like in scale desert scene Like literally telling this to the meta story Of the figure On the plinth like this is bonkers, man Like this idea smacked me in the face. I'm sorry to keep going on But it just blew me away. I like it's one of those ideas that I was like, how has this not How is this not like something I've seen 50 times? It's such a good idea Right like it's so crazy And it just blew me away, dude So I'm gonna cycle through pictures of this but just so everybody can really see the whole impression of it, but this guy Is the whole yeah It's one of these pieces that you kind of have to see in the round and it has a round base for that reason So like you want to see it from a lot of different Angles and unfortunately, I don't have the rotational video for this one because it's actually like really big and I have to Change my photography setup in order to get that rotation but Like it really is like more about that journey of creation of the art and So the idea and To do that with a historical subject um where um You know a lot of times historical miniature painting is about like accuracy and Detail and like all of these very technical things and that's great. I love that Um, and I wanted to integrate that into this piece. So like one half of the piece the front half How is that, you know, like Is realism and it's in there And then uh as you rotate the piece though It becomes more and more impressionistic with color being presented like purely in this very fantastical sort of way And and the the painting deconstructs itself Yeah And it's really fun because like as you rotate it you see pictures. There are like half and half where like It's almost like there's a light that's like creating realism On the piece and then on the back there's this impressionistic picture and then of course the presentation with the base being also Communicating the that same thing where the paint that and the paints there on the palette are the paints that I used to paint this piece You know Yeah, um and those paint Blobs of paint are turning into rocks. They're turning into the the um The scene that he's in um And it was just like a real achievement um For me like it was it's kind of part of I think that the piece is about that journey Into Artistic expression in my managers Yeah, um and maybe stepping away from just the the technical expression And the craft of it, which is of course still important and uh and everything but uh Yeah, I mean just like I really want to drill this in for everybody so everybody can see it here I'm going to take everybody through the journey of the light here on in the images because I kind of just been cycling but Like it's so mind-blowing that you've not only communicated this through the the palette turning into the the diorama scene But also through the actual paint application. So like he was saying when we start over here It looks like if I were to if when you're looking I'm right now We're just looking at sort of the straight on you know front left of the figure, right? So it looks like a very traditional You know historic night, right? Like the colors feel very as you said like very historical miniature painting right Um, that's not to say there's not still coloring. It's in metallics shadows, which is very historical as well Right. So that yeah, and then on the back it goes away from the metallics And then we get into so as we rotate it you start to see that more color come in there As we go toward the back Then you get that one image that's like kind of all the way around where you've got kind of the whole palette in there And you can start to see a lot more color showing up the shadows are becoming more blue a lot of light is becoming more yellow and and a little bit more kind of um Uh these like green infusions in there stuff like that And then we get around to the back of the piece and like the horse with these like strong blue shadows and yellow infused highlights and textures and stuff like that and the The reds and stuff which have now become so polychromatic, right just instantaneously They're an explosion of color and just the feeling of the banner It's so wonderful, man. Like I really really love this piece I'm glad you like events. I this is a I also like a piece. I haven't really like shown Uh like to the public yet because of covet. So sure to to share it here with you Uh, I hope this makes a journey with you somewhere sometime where I'm in person If not, then I'm just gonna have to come out and see you so I can see it in person. That's what it's gonna be Yeah, like, um, I'm definitely hoping to have this as at at least one show coming up Um before it finds its final home Right on which it yeah, it will eventually, um, you know find its way to its collector But uh, yeah, that hasn't happened because I covered yet either So thankfully he's been uh, he's been patient with me. There we go Absolutely beautiful. All right. So that brings us through the pieces. Let's take a few moments here Uh, this is your garden you've been working on Other type of art. Yeah, I got a couple pictures of that Yeah, like when we first we bought this place, uh two years ago It was just like an overgrown side yard full of weeds and and uh with a burn pile and stuff in it and I dug this, uh, pond and, uh built this mound and planted all the plants and just I really like dug into what may what the concepts of Japanese garden like are playing on and tried to integrate those into it too So you can't see in the pictures, but there's one of the concepts is like a captured landscape So you want to have a view of like a faraway landscape and it just so happens that There's mountains in the background, you know So on a clear day, you can see over the the pond to the mountains and the background and stuff like that I don't know like I'm just really excited for it because it's so new right now. Uh, and I I can see in my head what it will look like in the future But I'm look I'm looking forward to seeing it grow, you know, like, um Gardening and like create these creations of gardens and stuff can be like art as well like and Uh, it's a really amazing type of art that I had just like I mean, I I've only been gardening for four years or something like that like uh, and what I found is it's like you're making a living piece of artwork that grows and but also needs to be sort of tended So it's like when you're pruning Piece of tree trees or whatever. That's like you're editing your your art, you know You're adding your artwork or whatever and is it like every every aspect of building this thing It like feels like a painting to me I don't know why like maybe that's just because like that's the art It's a lot of building the same stuff. You got to build up textures. You got to think about angles, right? Yeah, absolutely. How is the light working? Yeah, how it looks from different different views and like how people are going to move through the space and stuff and It's just yeah, I like really fun So I think that it's been enriching my own artwork as well and and creating um, you know in my miniatures a more like Fully fleshed out feeling and of a place, you know, yeah, so everything feeds back into itself and um Sometimes you can get too focused on one thing. There you go. There you go Good stuff. All right. Well mat. It has been an absolute pleasure. My friend sitting down these last 90 minutes talking to you Uh, don't forget out there for all of you. Uh, the Kickstarter is live right now for the art of volumes one through three obviously miniature monthly So you can pick up that tone. Like I said, it's only 40 dollars You're not going to find a better value in art instruction in the world. Um, thank you to To all of the miniature monthly people for putting this out this incredible resource for all of us thanks to uh, Dave Taylor for Doing such great work and leading this and uh, matt. Thank you so much for uh, coming on the show For sharing all of this with us. It's been absolutely fantastic, brother Man, it's been it's been great. I mean, it's always a pleasure like, uh, you know talking with you about art you're so good at what you do as a as a um, you know an interviewer and you know, just make me feel at home and everything And feel comfortable talking about these things that are Can't be uncomfortable to talk about so, you know, or difficult to talk about but uh, Yeah, it's uh, it's been a really pleasure being able to have the opportunity with you And yeah, check out the check out the Kickstarter everybody like not just the art of miniature monthly There's a couple other really great art books there from just some amazing artists, um as well. So Yeah, check it out. Hopefully You know, I think there's something there for everybody. So absolutely So to all of you out there, thank you so much. Don't forget all the links down in the description hit them up Uh, don't forget you can learn from matt. He does but he's gonna has uh in person coaching We'll start back up here in the summer and there's online coaching available as well And people can reach out. Yeah, people can reach out to me about booking In-person learning like right now my my schedule I'm I'm booking for um later in this year After I open up in june. So there we go Fantastic all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it matt. Thank you again, buddy As always folks. Thanks. We'll see you next time