 You can now follow me and all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. Going to my mum's for the weekend, I've come back, someone's making me fucking telly, aren't they? So I'm absolutely livid and then I've got onto them because I've got CCTV anyway and then I've seen who it was and then I've seen him in the lobby and I just nutted him. I see a lot of crazy stuff, a lot of bad stuff. I've seen like screws getting locked in places, screws getting battered. I've seen things that have happened to girls like blood baths. Really, really bad, bad, battered, bad stuff. And I remember it was about five o'clock in the morning and I had a big pint glass of red wine and a cowboy hat on and I was at 18. And I'd summing up all my ribbons, whatever, anywhere and I set fire to his door. But it was like I completely blacked out. You come across like you're violent, you're angry and this and that but really you're in pain. Really you're scared, really you're, do you know what I mean? It's just a defence mechanism to try and survive. He's grabbing me, pushing me up against the wall. I'm there thinking, don't know what the fuck he's going to do. Looking around for things to grab. There's a kitchen knife on the side. I've slipped over, grabbed it, poked him. I found this woman that molested like, she was a nursery worker. She molested like babies when she was at work. And I just thought, do you know what, I'm just going to have to see a batter and go to the block. At least I get out of here. At least that's one damn. So on the night it says in the papers that he was on the ground and you've stabbed him twice in the face. What's your say to that story? So on the day of sentencing, I've gone there and the judge said, I thought she was talking to someone else. I was looking behind me. She went, I'm putting this in a category one, 15 to 19 years. And I was like, what? I've been more on the day's guest. How are you now? What's happening James? Good to see you. Good to see you. Just out of prison. Yeah, recently. 14 stretch. 12. Yeah, mental. Yeah. But before we get into all the madness, I'll go back to the start of my guests where you grew up. How it all began? It all began. I grew up basically growing up. It was like a bit of madness. Obviously, as you couldn't like a lot of us have been through like drugs, violence, prison. It's kind of what I grew up around. And then... How old were you at school? I got like extreme ADHD. I wasn't diagnosed until I was like 28. So I didn't really do well at school. I was like, I didn't really have much kind of say, say guidance or kind of whatever. So I was just out there just trying to survive really. So young girl on the streets. What about family, parents? My dad was kind of like on drugs in and out of jail, stuff like that. My mum done her best. But yeah, you know what I mean? Brothers or sisters? Yeah. I got three older brothers. Yeah. They're my soldiers. Yeah. Yeah. How was it? Did you feel like not like abandoned, father figure not there? There's kind of always the same kind of connection with people who slip from violence, prisons, abuse, addictions. Like there's always... There's not a family unit. Yeah, yeah. Did you find that? Took its toll as gradually you got older? Definitely, yeah. Yeah. What about when you left school? Did you go to school much or did you just leave at your age? I didn't really do school much, but I went to college, stuff like that. It was always like... I've always been like focused. Always like, I'm going to have a career. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I've always been very driven in that sense. But because I've had a lot of trauma, mental health issues, abuse, all that kind of stuff as well, together it was kind of like a battle. Do you know what I mean? Because it was like, I'm trying to win, but then I'm trying to survive. So then at the same time, it was just like, yeah, it was a struggle. But yeah, I was always training to be a hairdresser. I was working. But I was still like right kind of troubled, if you know what I mean? Were you causing trouble at a young age? I was in another trouble, yeah, on the roads doing all sorts of shit, getting nicked, fighting, like what else? Robbing shops, just silly stuff when you're young, do you know what I mean? Just out there, just trying to survive in this world. Yeah, it's difficult, especially growing up in that hostile environment, father figure loss, like if you grow up and drink drugs and violence, it comes in on. Exactly, and also it's like you pick up behaviours, don't you? It's learn behaviours, and then it's not until you get older, you realise that then you've got to kind of assassinate all them traits that you've then picked up through life and realise how they've not really got you anywhere, do you know what I mean? What about relationships? They've not really gone too well. Like my first relationship, I was like 15 for a couple of years, but that was like really bad domestic violence. I stuck with it for a while because it was all I knew. That's all I knew was violence and stuff like that, so to me it was kind of normal until it got like really out of hand, and then, yeah, just messed up my whole kind of perception of relationships, I suppose. Well, let's see, we're not here to fucking target a press, you've done bad in life, you've served your times and stuff as well, we're out now, you're trying to make a cleaner living, but when was the first time you went to prison? First time I went to prison, I was 18. What for? Would I go to prison for when I was 18? So basically I lived in this like block thing. There was loads of us, you know, like 18 to like 21. And I had this, I remember I'd just moved in and I had this like little plasma TV and no one really had fuck all there. And I brought a few people round from having a little party. Anyway, I've gone to my mum's for the weekend, I've come back, someone's making me fucking telly, aren't they? So I'm absolutely livid, and then I've got onto them because I've got CCTV. Anyway, and then I've seen who it was and then I've seen him in the lobby, and I just nutted him. And what happened after that? I just went to jail for eight months, got my telly back though. Was that a young offender you went to? I went to basically, it was a day before my 18th, so I went to juvie young offenders for one night and then the next day on my 8th, my birthday I went to the main prison. I was buzzing because I could get some tobaccos, you know what I mean? How was that for you, 18 lit? Fucking scary man. I remember when I first got there, so basically I was on A-wing which is like induction, and then from induction you move over to C-wing and that's when there's like three, four hundred people and they're massive. And then I remember I've moved, you all do your canteen on A-wing, so I've ordered my canteen, then moved to C-wing, but A-wing gets it before C-wing, if you know what I mean? So people kind of clocked that I was going to get mine before them and kind of followed me over. And I remember being with this little traveller girl on the way in and I was like, there's a fucking fiver then behind us. They're following us for this canteen. I was shitting myself, I was shaking. I said, this is paving our way right now for how things are going to go. We're not getting robbed for this canteen, I don't care how scared you are. Anyway, we've gone in there, she's like, I'm not going back, I'm not walking back, told you the screws, got my canteen, I've grabbed hers, put them in a bag and I just said, fuck this, this is going to make me or break me here. I'm either going to be a victim for the rest of my sentence or I've got to just have it with any kind I see, do you know what I mean? So I've got the canteen, I've walked out and there's like two over there, two over there, one over there, give me it, give me it. I was like, no, fuck that, I'm not giving it. The next day they've all come up to me and they're like, I'll respect you for that. We was just testing you. I thought, fucking hell. They paved my way, they said, sorry. Did you see a lot of violence at a young age in prison? Yeah, I see a lot of crazy stuff, a lot of bad stuff. Like, I've seen like screws getting like locked in places, screws getting battered, seen things that have happened to girls, like blood baths, really, really bad, bad, bad stuff. It's naughty in there. Any suicide? A lot of it. Yeah, sad. The whole, you'd know because you just feel it in the air and like, you wouldn't get out of the cell in the morning. You'd know when the doors went unlocked, you'd feel it in the air, you know someone's gone again. So as a girl 18 in prison, in the adult prison, did you, it's hard when you're young because you don't see fuck all wrong. Like you think everything's kind of just normal, but do you ever have anything in your mind thinking, what the fuck am I doing? I was just kind of, because that, when I was in prison at 22, it ended up cool. I felt as if I earned stripes. Even though it was a few months. Even though I was scared going, I felt as if, oh, that's cool. I can blag about it. Yeah. But for a young girl 18, did you feel that as if you'd earned some stripes or do you think I need to change my life? I was thinking, I need to change my life. I was thinking, this is like, this is not cool. Do you know what I mean? I've got to sort my shit out. Then obviously I've got out and that was my plan. Then I went back to college and I was working, but I was still so kind of troubled, you know. So it's like as much as I had that drive and I didn't want to be a part of that life. I kind of didn't know how to kind of get out of it. If you know what I mean, I didn't know how to kind of, it was all I knew, drugs, violence, prison. That's all I'd ever seen my whole life. So then trying to change, trying to say, no, I'm not doing that, but then everyone around just criminals, like everyone around just, you know what I mean? It's like, it's tough, man. It's tough. Does anybody offer help in prison at a young age but it's like therapy, nothing like that? No, it wasn't until I'd got out and then I went back and then I went to a call and the judge went, this the girl doesn't need prison. This girl needs help. Like he said, you can see that the sum of the things she does, she's not, it's not like, as much as it can look a certain way. He said, you can tell by her behaviors that it's not kind of like malicious. It's, she's just troubled, do you know what I mean? And then obviously in the system, resources and stuff like that, no one really cares. There's so many people that lost in the system. Everyone's got a sub story in age. You know what I mean? So you just slip, slip through the net. Luckily enough that the last time I went away, obviously when I got the, when I got the 12, I met this great woman. I've never trusted anyone in my life but I met this, I met this woman and she started telling me things about myself and about life and made me look at everything from a completely different angle. And I just, and I just, then I started like reading, doing therapy, reading loads of books and just like bi-sectoring my whole fucking character. Everything I'd ever seen, everything I'd ever been through, picking up every, where did I get that behavior? How, why do I think like that? Pull it at myself all apart to kind of rebuild myself to her. I was, I was meant to be, do you know what I mean? What did you do after your eight month? What did I do? When I got started going in college, then I went on a mad one. I had a row on my next door neighbor and I was only about 18. So he lived next to me in this block and I remember it was about five o'clock in the morning and I had a pint glass of red wine and a cowboy hat on and I was like 18 and I, um, summing up all my ribbons, whatever, anywhere and I set fire to his door. But it was like I completely blacked out and then I've like, I don't know, I've set the fire to it and then it's like I've blacked out and then the minute I've seen the flames it's like I fucking woke up and then I've ran in I've started getting salts burns throwing the water all over it, called the fire brigade. That's when the judge was like, this ain't fucking normal behavior. Do you know what I mean? She's not trying to hurt anyone. It's all camera dark. She's obviously just, there's something wrong with her. Do you know what I mean? But yeah, and then obviously I was speaking to this woman, she's a powerful, powerful lady, very intelligent and she told me about how I've got serious complex PTSD. I've got extreme ADHD. She said together, they're like a combination. It's like recipe for disaster. So then I went on medication for the ADHD and it's changed my life. So when you get angry, is it just C red and black out or are you still in a frame of mind where you know what you're doing? No, no, no. You just can't control it. I used to be. I used to be, I don't know whether it's because of just how I was, how I'd been raised and what I'd taught myself and the ADHD or I don't know, but now I'm so chill. Like I didn't have kind of control over my emotions. I didn't understand them and because I, and obviously anger is a secondary emotion. There's always a feeling that you feel before you get to anger, but then a lot of people just results are going straight to anger because it's what they're comfortable with. But really, they're not really angry. They could be sad, frustrated, shame. It could be any of them that then people just go to that because it's just that cycle that they know. Protection. Yeah. And it's feared even though the fear kicks in, the abandonment or the anxiety. Yeah. Or the, but it just, like you say, it becomes a protection even if it, abusive relationships, people are angry, people hate and work, people stuck in traffic. Yeah. It's just, it's like a little protection because something bubbling inside them that they can't control. And you look like, you come across like you're violent, you're angry and this and that, but really you're in pain. Yeah. Really you're scared. Really you're, do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's just a defence mechanism to try and survive. Yeah, like you say, the violence you've caused and the shit that you've done, the life. Yeah. Same as having a gangster interview where people say they get scared, they don't get scared because they see vulnerability. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like people who are angry and such a cliche, just like everybody says about the loudest man in the room is the weakest. Yeah. And it's true, do you know what I mean? But it's not that people are bad, people do bad shit and they're still good people, but it's just, you caught up in such a life where it's trying to understand people's lives and things like these podcasts as well, trying to understand your life, but then what the fuck can you do for the future? So when you set the neighbors down fire, what happened there? And then I got, it was mental. So basically, obviously the police had come, the fire brigade had come, got arrested, went to Holloway and then I'm in Holloway for a couple of months and then I've gone to the court and the judge just looked at it and he said, what? He said, this ain't right. She doesn't need to be, she doesn't need prison. She's like, she kind of needs some help here. And then, and then what happened? So then basically, he then let me out and he put me on bail and I was on a tag and I was like, I went sleeping. I was like, I was in a real bad way over it. So I remember being like so scared of outside, just so scared of people, so scared of myself. After that had happened, the fear couldn't believe what I'd done, how it could have ended up, all of that panic, panic. So then I went to the police station with my tag box about 10 o'clock at night, I had to be in a seven, I went there about 10 o'clock at night and I was like, listen, I've breached my tag. I'm not supposed to be out, basically begging him. I need to be banged up. Couldn't cope. I didn't feel safe anywhere. And then I went to a police station. They said, no warrants not come through. Yeah, it has to come through from the tag people or whatever. Spent 10 days, police station to police station, all around East London, Essex. Finally on the 10th day, I've got back, I've got back to Essex. I went, yes, near to, he warrants come through, said, yes, got in that cell and I swear to God, I've never felt so safe or so peace in my whole life. Like it was crazy. I needed to just be there and like think calm where I felt safe and think, what the fuck is going on with my life? Do you know what I mean? How did, how did I ended up here? Kind of thing. Was that when you felt you're safest when you were in prison? Yeah. You couldn't hurt anybody else? Yeah. Especially yourself? Yeah. Were you ever suicidal or anything? Er... No, because I know I've got too much to live for. Do you know what I mean? No. Any drugs involved? Er, like, not really. Like I'd have parties in that area in there but I've never been like on drugs like that. But yeah, recreationally, have a little party, get on the MD, smoke a bit of weed, whatever, stuff like that in jail. But no, not really. So, after you set the stone fire, what happens then? Where do you go with your life there? Then, what happens then? Then, I've got nicks again, a house party. Basically, there's a house party, big, there's a geezer there. He's basically kicking everyone out or whatever. Anyway, long story short, he's grabbed me, pushing me up against the wall. I'm there thinking, don't know what the fuck he's going to do. Looking around for things to grab. There's a kitchen knife on the side. I've slipped over, grabbed it, poked him. It was only half a cent of me. I can't lie. I only poked him. But anyway, yeah, and I've poked him with the thing. I've run out like, what the fuck? Got banged up for that. And the maddest thing was about that, was I was screaming, like, I had to. I had to. He had me up. I don't know what could, what could have happened if I never done it. Because I was so afraid because of situations that I'd been in. And anyway, I was screaming the whole time. I was on my mom for about a year for it. Anyway, I was on my mom for about a year, done all that, told him what happened. They said, basically, after about a year, I was in a pad with one girl and we were talking about it. What happened that night? And I was like, yeah, fucking had to. I said, he had me up. I was looking around for things to grab. That was the only thing there. I had to. She went, but why didn't you just kick him in the balls or something? And I went, you know, it was like, it was so mad. It was like, something just clicked when she said that. And I thought, why didn't I, you know, there is other things that I could have done. Situations that I've been in in life and not been able to get out of them. I'm thinking, I don't think rationally. It's like it's me or them, you know, like, very, what's the word? Is it hyper? I'm vigilant. No, I don't know. But yeah, anyway, and then when she said that, I was like, oh my God, why didn't I save myself years? But you just, just not thinking, right, do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, just fear, just panic. But yeah, anyway, and then I've done that and then got out. What did you do two and a half year? Done two and a half years. I was in, uh, Holloway the whole time, actually. What was that like? Oh, shit, oh, yeah, it was rough. It was like, you'd sleep on the top bunk and there'd be like condensation because of how cold it was and the windows were broken and I couldn't use a sleep. They put me on the, uh, lifer wing at one point because there was, they were shutting the prison down. So when they're shutting the prison down, they were starting from the bottom, working their way up, you know, like clearing it out. And so then they're moving people higher up, getting rid of people and then moving everyone higher up, higher up. Obviously, the lifer was right at the top and they never ended up putting me right at the top. And I mean, like, full of no marks. Do you know what I mean? Like, there are a lot of them wrongans and then they've put me up there and I'm there for a couple of weeks and I'm thinking, fucking no, when I first got there I thought, I can't do this. I can't be ran, I can't be ran, these kind of people, like, child molesterers, baby killers, stuff like that. And I'm there, fucking livid that I'm there in a first place after the kids try to batter me. But I know that I've done stuff wrong. I know that I did it in. I know that I ain't perfect. So I know half of me should be there. Do you know what I mean? But then I'm up there in the laughing and I'm thinking, I've got to get out of here. I don't know what I've got to do, but I've got to get out of here. Anyway, so then I've, there's this, found this woman that molested like, she was a nursery worker. She molested like babies when she was at work and I just thought, do you know what? I'm just gonna absolutely batter and go to the block. At least I get out of here. At least that's one damn. Do you know what I mean? I don't condone violence, but I condone that. That's what we all done. No regrets tonight, I mean, but yeah. Yeah. What was it like battering her? Someone who was abusing kids at name one fold? It was good. She earned it. And they're so protected and stuff in there. It's disgusting. But yeah. And I, I don't care. I went to court for that and I said, yeah, I've done it. And I've done it because she's a child molester. And that's it. Basically, what more are you gonna say? Yeah. What's that woman? Marie. Marie Raison. Her name's Marie Raison. She's like, sending pictures and stuff online to people and just working in a nursery. Absolutely wrong and scum. Bad. But yeah. She was in a bad, she was in bad shape. How many of them are in prison? Well, if you have many, my last child, my last doesn't have one. Lots of them. The thing is with women's prison, like men's prison, they separate them, don't they? Women's prison, they're everywhere. Like, they're everywhere. You've got to be very careful. So you've done your two and a half then, like, again back in prison, longer sentence. Like, it's difficult once you're in that bubble. Like, it's just, you fucking just then start believing that that's normal life and it's sad because there's so many people like it. Yeah. I think there's no way out. I think that's what they deserve. I think that's all they can get in life. But I've had so many people on this podcast that have changed their life. People who've done 30 years in prison, 40 years in prison and came out and made changes. Of course it's hard. Life is tough without being a jail, without being fucking abused as a kid, without having addiction problems, that life is fucking a, it's a good old slog. But when you get out after your two and a half, what are you then thinking? I'm thinking, this is it for me now. Getting my head down. I'm staying away from people that are not good for me, places that are not good for me. I'm focusing on my career and I'm just going to win. And that was it. And that's what I was doing, working really, really hard for that. And then I've gone out that night and that's happened. But then unfortunately, because of my past, I threw the book at you. I threw the book at me. Yeah. When I actually was for the first time in my life, like, it weren't my fault. It's understandable as well because of history of Ireland. Of course. If somebody, no matter what you say, looking at that on paper, you're thinking, pfft, lock her up for life. Yeah. Setting doors on fire, we could have killed people, stabbing people in the ass, fighting, batting in fucking pedophiles as good. You should get a reduced sentence for that. Yeah. Yeah. You can understand it. So the night that changed your life, were you alive already? And kind of turned my, no disrespect, but it's kind of, you're not like a lost soul. You're trying to find a way. You can't find a way. You seem to get sucked back into that life because of the old emotions. But when you're just out of prison, you're trying to change, you're working hard, you're trying to do things right. What happened the night you get your 12 years? So then basically, I remember I was at home and I remember I was with my brother as well in the kitchen. And then I was like, I'm going to go to bed. I'm going to bed. She rang me and she was like, oh, Nia, she's found out about her boyfriend cheating on her something on Facebook or whatever. Can we go out? But she was my good, good friend when I was young. When I was about 18, 19, I stopped going out of her because she's a nightmare when she has a drink. So I said, Jade, do you know I don't go out with her? She says, please, Nia, you're all I've got. And then when she said that, I was like, fuck sake, all right. I'll meet you in half an hour. I have much money. I'll say, I've got no money. Then hopefully we can't drink a lot. She won't get pissed and we'll get out of it. And then we've got there in the bar, having a couple of drinks. It's Paddy's day. So I've ordered a Coke. The next thing, I've seen her pull out a big bottle from her handbag. And I thought, this is it. I thought, we're fucked tonight because I'm with her and she's an absolute nightmare. Next thing, you know, anyway, we're in the bar, having a great time, getting loads of shots, getting loads of video, having a great time. Going down to the toilet, come back up, the bouncers are separating everyone. Obviously, something's kicked off while I've been downstairs. Come up, don't really know what's going on. They've separated everyone and they've kicked all the boys out. So I'm still there with my mate in the bar. So I'm on the phone. My mate says, I'll be there in 10 minutes to pick you up. So I've had a couple of drinks with me and I said, oh fuck this, right, I'll drink that and I'll bring this one with me. You're not allowed glasses outside. Anyway, we've gone out. My mate said he'll be there. So I've took my drink out and we're waiting outside. They've come back from around the corner. As they've come back from around the corner, they're trying to scream and shout at my little pal, but she's fucking four foot and a wristlet, mate. Honestly, she's about that big. So they're trying to scream and shout at my pal. I've stood in front of her. I said, listen, calm down, mate. Everyone's been kicked out now. Like, leave it. All I'm thinking in my head is, Nia, you're not going down. Don't go down. Because that's what you think. That's what your mentality becomes. Absolute panic fear all the time. Like, because of how easy it is to lose your freedom. Do you know what I mean? And how easy it is, quick it is to get caught up in shit that just changes your life. Do you know what I mean? It's not worth it. All I'm thinking, Nia, don't go down. You can't go down. Can't go down. The geezer's back. The geezer's hit me. He's hit me again. He's hit me again. Knocked him out with a glass. Next thing. I'm there. Covered in claret. I'm like, fucking hell. What am I going to do? So I thought, I was looking at him. I thought, well, he's bad at me. So shall I stay? Do you know what I mean? Because I'm all right. Because he's bad at me. But obviously, I won. But then I thought, I've got to go. So I just ran. Just ran for my life. Cut all my air off. Went on the run. But what caught, this is how mad it is. Obviously they didn't really know who I was. But what the maddest thing is, is what they got me on, is that a couple of days after it happened, I looked him up to find him on Instagram. I found him and I messaged him and asked him if he was all right. And then obviously from that, my profile back then used to be in my government name, and it was all open profile, is then seeing the pictures of me in the outfit that I was wearing that night on my Instagram, called the police, gave him my name. And yeah, that's how I got arrested for it, because I messaged him and asked him if he was all right. I'm asking him if he was all right. Like, after he's bad at me, because I've got heart. Do you know what I mean? So you stuck yourself in basically? Yeah. The explosion. I did, and I didn't think because I knew that he'd started on me, I wasn't really worried about it. Self-defence? Yeah, yeah. So I wasn't really worried about it, to be honest, until it all got, I realised that the whole bill was everywhere and it's all a bit wild. That's when I thought, shit. How long were you on the run for? About three months. I was in different names, Travellers to Travellers to Travellers to Travellers. I was everywhere, all in different names, four days there, three days there, three days there. How did you get caught? So one night, I used to put hotels side, but four nights there, then before that four nights, I'd run out, I'd do three nights there, three nights there, whatever. But you can imagine living like that, how draining it is, just exhausted. I'm washing my clothes in long dress. I'm meeting people two in the morning with face masks on, just panicked. And then one night, I never booked the hotels going forward for the next night. So I thought, fuck it, I'll just get a little B&B or something tonight and then sort out the next few days and the next day I'm there and I'm looking, looking, looking to about one in the morning, couldn't find a hotel anywhere. So I thought, do you know what fuck this? This is what I do. I'll go to my mum, set an alarm for five o'clock in the morning and then sleep there for a bit, then just get out of five. Obviously I've not been in my bed for three months. I've not chilled for three months. Got to my mum's got in the bed, fell asleep, fell asleep through the alarm. Next thing, police are coming through the door. Remember, my mum's answered the door, but obviously they're coming around all the time and I'm not there. My mum's answered the door and she's like, obviously I've slipped in, but I've slipped in about two in the morning and I've not been there for months. And I'm like, I could hear my mum downstairs going, she's not here. You come here yesterday. You know she's not here. Come in and have a look. I'm upstairs. I'm like, you're joking me about coming and have a look. So I remember running and I tried to get in this little wardrobe and I said, I said to one of my brothers, shut the door, shut the door. Anyway, he's shut the wrong door and I'm in there in this little cupboard trying to stop myself from breathing, trying to keep this door shut and they opened me in the door. I fell out the door and that was it. What are you thinking then? Do you think, did you think you were going to get a big sentence? No way. That's just cool anyway. No way. I knew that obviously something was happened because obviously I did hit him with a glass. I want to believe that's, you know, like, you can't do stuff like that by the law. That's what the law says, whatever. But I wasn't too worried. No. And even when I'd got to the police station and I didn't go no comment or anything like that, gave the interview, told him what happened. She went from woman to woman. Neha, I feel sorry for you. She went, but the eyes of the law, this is GBA driven 10 and you need to tell your family that you're going away for a long time. My heart dropped. I thought, what? How does that even make sense? Do you know what I mean? I couldn't comprehend it. I never said to anyone I'm going away for years because I didn't believe it. You know, like, I didn't believe it. I thought, there's no way. How can I? Why? You know, and they stitched me up so bad. And I know that it's because of my previous and stuff like that. They then put it all together and then create this character of you on paper where you look horrendous and then no matter what kind of what you say or what's obviously the truth, which is things that factual things are clear and stuff like that. It doesn't matter because even if they believe they know it's the truth or not. I was sitting there in court and I was sitting there thinking looking at the prosecution and stuff like that and I was thinking, you know that I never done that. You actually know. So how are you going to, how are you doing this to me? You're going to ruin my life but you know there's facts there to prove that I never done that when he was on the floor. I couldn't understand how people could actually do that. And then the next thing, yeah, they put it all together create this kind of perception of you that you can't really you can try and justify in ways but ultimately you do have to take full responsibility and it doesn't really look great. Do you know what I mean? So on the night it says in the papers that he was on the ground and you've stabbed him twice in the face. What's your say to that story? So basically I've hit him with the glass. We've watched the CCTV two and a half hours of that whole night of everyone that left that bar. You're not allowed to leave that bar with glasses. So we watched the whole CCTV no one left that bar with a glass apart from me, one glass. So I'm there. He's hitting me. We're standing up. I've hit him with the glass. As I've hit him with the glass he's got a three centimetre slice down his face which is clear. That was from my right arm to the left side of his face. One glass left that bar that night. So that's hit him in the face and that's disintegrated into my hand and into his face. So that glass is then gone. So then he's then on the floor. There is no glass left for me to be able to then hit him further on the floor. I'm on the phone as he's come over to me as I've left the bar. My mates said I'd be ten minutes. So I'm on the phone and I've got my glass. They've come over. I've got the phone in my hand and the glass. He's started. Anyway, the phone's dropped on the floor. I've hit. He's hitting me. I've hit him with the glass. The phone's dropped on the floor. He's dropped on the floor. I'm there then in a panic. I'm looking around for my phone. I find a bit over there and a bit over there where the phone's broke. I'm then fuming my fucking phone through the phone. Yeah, through the phone at him. They've said that I've then went and armoured myself with another glass and then glass him further when he was on the floor. So then I've then said, OK, cool. So I don't know how that can be proven when only one glass left that bar that night and that disintegrated when he was standing up in my hand and got the slice down the side of his face. So then if I've then glass him again when he's on the floor, you're going to have, he's flat on the floor. And if I glass him again, it's not going to be slices. That's going to be wounds. They're going to be, do you know what I mean? They're going to be deep. All the medical records proved that there was nothing like that. There was no wounds. There was just that there proven for when I was standing up. So factually, I could prove that that was impossible for that to happen because there was no glass and there was no medical evidence to support what they was trying to say. Do you know what I mean? I've got fucked for it anyway. So how did they rule with that then if evidence was to state that? Exactly. It wasn't a stab wounds. Yeah. Because they said that's how it looked. Even though I could prove that that that never happened, they fucked me over. I stood in that box. I swear to God, I stood in that box and I made and played the CCC if you must have listened. And I stood in the box to the judge and the jury and I made them stop at every single punch when he punched me. Stop. It was like I was running the show. Did everybody see that? Everybody saw that call? Play. Again, bang. Stop. Did everybody see that? What kind of pain? They said, we can get more punches to everyone. And then I went, right, now I'm fitting with a glass. I said, if that was your daughter, that was your sister in that situation, what would you expect them to do? Do you know what they said? They said, if you were conscious when you had that glass in your hand so, by not dropping that glass, the only thing that you could have intended to do was causing GBH with intent. They said, I said, what would I have done if I never hit them with that glass? They said, you would have been the one How can you kind of, I won't we need to take that risk? Yeah, but it's about taking the risk in it. Like for somebody who's been in abusive relationships and had beatings, like it's to make that call, but for looking for the law. Yeah. Like they're just gonna throw the book at you no matter what, what about witnesses? So my mate, the one that started it all, she never come. Why? I don't know, cause she knew she started it and she was scared. Okay, she went to prison? Yeah. And they were begging me for a name, begging me, begging me, I'm not gonna do that. I want you to come, you should come for me. You started it, you're not in any trouble. Come and help me out here. Just, I was begging her, just come. And all you need to do is just tell the truth. She, she wouldn't come. And I never obviously said anything. So that made it look even worse. Cause it was like, if that's your best friend, why is she not here? And why are you not telling us who we are? But you have these, you have these ways, don't you, in these morals that you grow up with. And I would never do that. I would never, even if it fucked me right over, I would never give her, I'd never give her a name. Do you know what I mean? And what about the guy who was glassed? Do you know him? I don't know him, no. But his girlfriend was a witness. I needed her. Obviously she didn't realise, but everything that she said in her statement that night was everything that had happened. It was the truth. She was right next to him. Watch the whole thing. So I needed her to get in this box and say her, what she'd seen. Cause it was exactly what I had said. And it was the truth and it was proven that I was not guilty for doing it when he was on the floor. The girl got in the box. She was silent. She was choking. They was like, what? Can you read your statement please? Can you read your statement please? And then she dropped the phone. She went, I'm near nose a lot of people. She went, I'm scared for my life. I'm not willing to give evidence. So then they threw that out and said, right, we can't take anything she says as credible because she's not willing to say it in front of the call. So basically dismissed her whole statement. So then I had no one, had nothing. How long did the trial run for? 10 days? What were you thinking halfway through the trial? Did you think you were fucked? Or were you thinking you still had the chance? I was thinking I was absolutely fucked. When that had happened with the witnesses, I thought I'm absolutely fucked. And my solicitor said to me, because of your previous and because of what's happened with the witnesses and stuff like that. He said, you, I could, if you won, you could go guilty now. And I could probably get you seven to eight years. And I said, but guilty for what? He said, for glassing and when he was on the floor, I said, I'm not willing to do that. I said, I'll go guilty to what happened. Glassing and when he was standing up, I'll take five years or whatever, I don't care, but I'm not gonna go guilty to something I didn't do. He said, all right, but I'm advising you that, you know, it's not kind of looking great. He went, but you're not guilty. You're not guilty near the whole, from what you've told me, you're not guilty. This is self-defense. And I remember looking at him and I was scared for my life, man. And he went, trust me, you're not guilty, trust me. And then got all the way, obviously got to the end. I got guilty. And then basically I'd got guilty, but the, so it was always in a category two. So it was like five to nine. Got fan guilty for it. And it was in the category five to nine, but then on the day of sentencing, I got sentenced on Friday the fucking 13th. So on the day of sentencing, I've gone there and the judge said, I thought she was talking to someone else, I was looking behind me. She went, I'm putting this in a category one, 15 to 19 years. And I was like, what? Because the injuries wasn't serious, I'm going to give you 12, take her down. I went, what? Are you joking? So people fucking kill people and get less than that. You've got pedophiles in there doing six months. People killing people and get five years. Are you, he bad me, you wind him up. Yeah. And that was the strength of it. So then I appealed, got rejected for my first appeal. Then they tell you basically, you know, if you appeal again, you could get, your first appeal was fine. If you lose it, if you appeal again, you could get extra time. So that's a risk to take. Obviously, I didn't give a shit. Cause I know I didn't do it. I said, I'll appeal again. You have to pay private and stuff like that. Anyway, got a new solicitor, but this is when I really knew I was absolutely fucked. So we've got a new private solicitor and finally had got the listing for an appeal in the appeal court in Strand. And then on the day that it had been listed, I'm bringing that, bringing that to find out what happened. And the barista never turned up. And then we was calling the company, obviously trying to find out what had happened because they can't, they could not process my appeal just on papers. They needed to have a representative there. And obviously he wasn't there. And then we've contacted a company, tried to find him and stuff like that. And he disappeared. He disappeared with the money. What? What? How much? No, serious, about only about 600 quid. But I needed him there obviously to fuck my appeal. That's why we would pay him. I took me two and a half years to get to a appeal court. The guy disappeared. That's when I sat there and I was like, what? That's when I sat there. I was in style with Manchester. I sat there and I thought, near mate, there's a reason you need to be a fool these years. Don't know what it is, but one day you're going to figure it out because this is like, don't make no sense. It's kind of stuff. You can't make this shit up. Do you know what I mean? It's mad, but because if you do bad shit and leave as well, we do get out of here with a lot. And then there's something always catches up with you. It's not that you deserved it, but even the door you set in fire, the guys asked that you stab the guy in the glass. Like, it's part of you're not glad as well that you never killed anybody. 100%. 100%. And I sat there and I thought, do you know what? At least even though I know that I didn't do that, I'm paying my fucking dues for everything that I have ever done. And then I'll come out with a clean slate and know that I've got to use them years to ensure that I never ever come back here, to ensure that I make myself into the best, well-rounded person I could have been in, could have even made better than I could have been in society. And just make sure I use that time to just like be better, do better, forgive myself, forgive people and just change my life. So first night in the sales after getting a 12, what are you thinking about? But like I say, basically I leave sentence. I know people have done worse as fucking get lesser sentences and like you say, the nonces and fucking pedophiles are getting three month and six month. That's cause part of them are all fucking judges and lawyers anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you're in yourself then, in yourself, what, 12, first night, what are you thinking? I'm thinking, I was just, I just, she's shocked. I just, I don't even know what I was thinking. My head was blown, completely shocked to bits. I couldn't believe it. But I thought, because I knew that I didn't do it, it was like, I thought, I'm gonna get out of here. Like I'm gonna, I thought this can't be right. Everything, I remember speaking to my mom and I was like, yeah, but everything comes out in the wash. You know, like I will get out of here, we'll get out of here. And she said to me, she says, Nia, you gotta understand that you may have to do all this, all these years, you know? She said, not everything does come out in the wash, Nia. You may have to do it. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I thought, what? You can imagine I'm only 23. And I'm there and I'm thinking, 30. I'm gonna be 30. I feel like right old at that time. Do you know what I mean? And I thought, what? I thought I was gonna have a mortgage and a family and all this and all this that I'd planned for them. Do you know what I mean? And just visioning myself having to spend all them years growing up in there is painful, painful. What's your mum's in when you get a 12 and out? Like using a good relationship or close at that time? It was a bit up and down really. We always kind of clash when I was younger. Quite similar, fiery personalities. Then obviously we've calmed down a lot, you know, as we've got older, but no one could believe it. No one could believe it. That's why I said to him, I was in Bronzefield at the time and I was having visits and stuff all the time. And you know, people were just coming and just looking at me and I could just see the pity. Like in their face, just feeling sorry for me. And it was just eating me up. So I said to him, get me, I need to go as far away as I can go from everyone and everything I know to try and get my head around this. I've got to get out of here. And I've got them to send me up north to Manchester because I completed it from well, don't know no one, don't know nothing. I've not got anyone looking at me like putting, remember when I first got the sentence the next day and I'm coming at myself and people that I've known for years are putting their head down, not even looking at me because I don't know, because I don't know what to say. I said, I feel sorry for me. And I couldn't cope with it, couldn't cope with it. So what was the biggest sentence in there? What was the biggest sentence in there? Must have been fucking close to 12. But what was other girls, what was the biggest sentence in there? I don't know, not like that. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking like that. What? Really bad. I knew, there was girls in there that like, stood people up on a like malicious one, killed him six years, baby killers five years. I was fuming for a good three years, really, really fuming. Were you causing shit in the other first three years? Yeah, absolute chaos. Prison to prison, protests, selling stuff, mobile phones, everything just on one. What sort of protests were you doing? I was just doing like, doing like peaceful protests. I used to call them, I'd just like stand on tables, refuse to go myself, sit there all night, get on the MDMA. And just absolutely fucking terrorise them. What about friends in prison? A lot of them are no-marks. No, but I did make a few friends. Obviously they're, I found some real good friends, rare breeds, do you know what I mean? But not a lot, do you know what I mean? What do you tend to see? Well, a lot of girls in prison. They're just, it's just drugs. Everyone's on drugs really. Everyone's like, how to get you out? You've always got to watch your back. Everyone's shady. Do you know what I mean? No one's your mate. You know, it's dangerous. It's not, it's not, it's dangerous. Yeah, it's not comfortable. Do you know what I mean? It's all. Did anybody ever try and test you in there? A couple of times, yeah. A couple of times, yeah. But obviously I've been away before. So I know a lot of people. So I'm like, I'm not a victim. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm, yeah. What's so valuable more than they're on a daily basis? What do you need to do? Just be on your toes, always. Is there any stuff that happens around when you're with girls? I just like catfights. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen people get sliced up. Stuff like that, razor blades. Razor blades on toothbrushes and that girls. Yeah, crazy. It's mad, I had the black widow on Linda Calvi. She done it over a Twitter stretch, man. Really? She says she murdered her husband and she never. Fucking hell. Fucking never, but she was so staunch, man, that she never broke. She could have got out after seven, eight years if she had meted it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, she never had meted it. Yeah, that's what was happening to me. They probation. So basically after four years, you could get like home releases and stuff like that. But the only way for me to be able to have got that was to accept full responsibility, then show an extreme amount of remorse and then kind of beg for the home release. I could do it, my mum said to me, Nia, please you got to. You have to, you're not gonna get out. You have to, I said, I can't. I can't. I'll do the bird. There's no way I can do it. I thought if I'm gonna do that now, I could have done that years ago and got a seven and said that I'd done it. I'm not gonna do it now. I'll do my sentence. They can have every fucking day of it. Do you know what I mean? Never gonna, never. Was that Keddon Court? Yeah. What was it, vibes like we used to? Oh, awkward. I had his family over there. We was all half arguing. But like with my friends that were there, they're in the gallery. Oh God, it weren't good. So that obviously didn't look good as well in front of the jury. We was all young as well, do you know what I mean? It was, it weren't a good look at all. And the judge that I had, she don't, my solicitor said to me that she'd only recently turned into, from prosecution to a judge. He said, so basically she's trying to earn stripes as a fresh judge. And he basically said, you're fucked because if that's what she's doing, he said that people know that that's what her plan was. So that's why I have all the courts in Snaresbrook Court. The press was in my court. Why are they in my court? Why are they in my courtroom? I have all the courtrooms there because they knew they was gonna get a story from that because they knew she was gonna fuck me over. And they did. 12 years, girl gets 12 years everywhere, everywhere. That was a geezer, yeah? And a geezer that had had a fight on St. Patrick's down a night out. Is he getting 12 years? They're getting three out of four. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Is he gonna be all in the paper for it now? Probably happened in every bar, every bar all over London on bad days day. You had the problem got a shorter sentence if you killed the cunt? 100%, my solicitor said to me at the end of it, if you had killed him, I could have got you 10 years for manslaughter. He said that to me. I was like, what? What sort of people were you in with and you were doing that real stress? Some mad people. Oh gosh, some crazy, some crazy things. So you know that, obviously, giant energy. So I done a thing, a video about her before on my TikToks, people was asking for it, but they took it down or whatever. So I was in with her cause she killed them three geezers, but she kept the dog. And I always wondered when I saw it in the papers and stuff like that. So she's got life without parole. I think it's just her, Rose West. I think there's someone else, I think there's about three people. Anyway, so I always wondered and always wanted to ask her why she killed the geezers, but kept the dog. And she, but she lived in the block for the first four years of her sentence, like because you have how high profile she was, but she used to go to the gym here and there, like proper ban the gym, like an absolute machine, but she'd always be a sculptor. Anyway, once I'm in the gym and she's come in the changing room and I thought, you know, it's awkward. I thought this was my time. You know, I really want to fucking know why she kept the dog. You know what I mean? And then she's in there. She's at the sink sniffing MDMA. She's like, do you want some? I thought this was fucking mad. So then I thought, fuck it, she seems kind of cool. Let me just crack on and ask them what went on. I said, so what happened? How come she killed them geezers, but you kept the dog? She said, oh, the dog looked hungry. Oh, well, you killed the dog looked hungry. She was like, yeah, sorry from the dog looked hungry. And I thought, oh my, you're absolutely fucking wild. Like some of the girls in there, there was this other bird that I met. And she went, she had green eyes. She was a dark-skinned girl, but she had bright green eyes. And I was like, oh, your eyes are lovely. They're so nice. And people was like, I don't know her fucking eyes. Cool setting on here. They're contact lenses. Why are you so gullible? And then I went to her, oh, what are you in for? She went, oh, I got, I think it was like a, do you go cool for a speeding ticket? Yeah. It was like a driving offence, a minor driving offence. Basically, she's got a driving offence and she said, she went, oh, I got a driving offence, but I couldn't be, she couldn't be asked to go. So she called him up and told him she was dead. What? She called him up and told him she'd died. They'd found out she didn't die obviously. So she was in jail for perjury. And people were like, Nia, she lied about her own death. And you're believing her that there were contact lenses? I was like, what? I said, why'd you do that? She said, I was hungover. So mate, you're doing three years for a perjury, you can. What's the worst thing you've ever seen in prison? What's the worst thing I've ever seen? I've seen some mad stuff with the screws, you know, like things they've done to people. Like what? Like loads of them, 10, 15 of them, massive running up on little girls and just battering them, dragging them out, beating the life out of them, bad stuff like that, bad stuff. I've seen this other fire one time, I was in up, up in Drake call and it's very relaxed prison. You would have like China Cups, things like that. And there's a big fire went on there. There's like all different houses, they're all named like from different places, like you've got Richmond, Margate, Folkstone, they're all named different things. And they used to be kind of like little wars between the different blocks. And then one time there's a big fire went on and this girl, I know, smashed up with the cup, China Cup, really bad, knocked out, blind in one eye and everything now. Bad, bad way. Is that many male screws? Yeah. How about fails with the girls? Loads, loads of it, yeah. I've had a couple of guys go shot for me in that. Oh yeah? Yeah, go shot for me, bringing back a pack of tobacco, but it was a rum, this one, she's gone now, so I can talk about it because she got found out. But this one bird, when I was in Bronzefield, she was young. She always used to kind of come and chill with us. She was cool. She used to bring us in, you know, like the blues, blueberry, like Rizzles and stuff like that. And then she went away for a couple of weeks. She'd went on holiday to Spain and she was unlocking in the morning. She unlocked at eight o'clock in the morning. She unlocked bus and door, gave me a big bottle of Uzo. And I remember I had to be at work in the gym in fucking half an hour. And obviously I'm cracking on through here. So I'm drinking the Uzo, having a big party and I remember the staff turning up half hour later from the gym. They're like, Nia, what are you doing? It's supposed to be at the gym. What's that smell? I'm like, oh, it's mouthwash. It's mouthwash, right, mouthwash everywhere. Pissed out my head and anyway, she got sacked. But that was so funny. But yeah, I've had a lot of screws, loads of affairs coming on. You wouldn't believe it. You wouldn't believe it. It's not like, you have this perception of kind of prison. But it's, until you're there in these women's prisons, it's not really, it's like people cracking on with the screws, parties all the time. It's like, it's wild. What sort of parties? Big parties, like loads of drink bottles. Obviously, if you're getting from the screws or a hooch, that MDMA, everyone gets on pills, smokes a lot of weed, lock the door and just have a big party. Did you make your own hooch? Yeah, yeah, I'm professional. Yeah, what did you use? Potato skins, bread? No, I used bread, apples, but I used to boil the apples for hours, boiling them, cooking them up for minting them, sugar, maybe a bit of marmite. Yeah, and then I'd be like, ooh, oh, no. I can't make a touch for wee. You used to keep it behind the toilet, but I don't think I've ever been right since I fucking drank it. I fucking serious, man. I think I went blind at one point. I don't know if it was, oh, he's in the bastard's throat. I've never felt fucking right since. I never touched that again. Oh, I'm blinding you now. It's time to stop. Fucking mad bastard. You do have to be careful. Yeah, because he wasn't right in the fucking head. None of them all, were they? Yeah, that was the first and that was the last. I was fucked, man. I thought I was going blind. Did you? Yeah, I was fucking drinking bottles, man. He's probably laced it with something. So when you're in there, when was the time, did you ever have a moment? And it's difficult, especially if you've been diagnosed with a few things to then come to a conclusion of a mindset where you want to make decisions, but was there a time in your sentence where you thought, that's saying normal. Yeah. When? That was about two and a half years in, when it was just wild and trying to get my head around it, prison to prison to prison, drugs, phones, fights, protests, all of that. And then when that happened with the appeal and that guy had disappeared, it was just like you couldn't make it up. So then something really hit me then and I was just like, wow, you're halfway through. You've been fighting, fighting for this. You've already done half of it now. This is still your life ultimately and you've got three years left and you've got to make sure that this time's not, I don't spend the whole six years being getting out angry and bitter. And you know, cause people, you get worse. If you don't take control of things and have a plan and get your shit together, you're fucked. Some people go there and they don't come back out the same way. Do you know what I mean? Majority of people. Pardon? The majority of people don't come out the same. Yeah. They fuck you up, man. That's such a high percentage of people who just go back. Yeah. Like when you're doing your sentence and like, did you have to do courses before you get out? Had to do courses, yeah. I was begging and really trying to get on as many as I could, to be honest. What was it like to eventually speak to people and kind of open up a bit of past and stuff? Uncomfortable. Really uncomfortable, but very eye-opening. You know, getting other people's perceptions on things that have had completely different lives to you and all you know is what you know and that's what you believe to be normal. But then having other people that you actually, I've got trust and respect for, telling you things of how that isn't normal. Do you know what I mean? It isn't normal to think like that. It isn't normal to have seen stuff like that. It isn't normal to believe stuff like that. Smashed my head to bits. It was like, wow. But until you, when you're kind of stuck in cycles and that's all you've kind of got around you, you don't know no better. You don't know no different. Do you know what I mean? But like it changed my whole, changed everything. Changed everything. Do you feel as if it helped with your temperament as time went on and you were getting help? 100%, yeah. 100% because I had to accept that I could be angry, I could lash out on this, that and the other, but what's it for? It's for other people to feel my pain overwhelmingly. It's because I'm in pain. So that's what I need to heal. Do you know what I mean? Being angry and stuff like that, it's not helping, it's not saving me. What was it like getting out after doing a seven? Really mad, scary. For the first, when it got closer for about three weeks before I got out, I was like, I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't ring, I was like different. I was weird, like I was just so quiet and just trying to prepare myself for the reality of I'm getting out of here. It's what you thought about for so long. It's all you've ever wanted. It's what you've dragged yourself through all this for and then it's got there and it's like, how am I gonna, I'm not used to the world. Do you know what I mean? I'm used to just being in this cell on my own. And it was like, really overwhelming. Everywhere I went, I felt like an imposter. I felt like I shouldn't be here. I just felt really, really bad anxieties giving me. Some days now, I don't, I could go for a couple of days and I'm like, don't talk to people or I'm just like, because it's so overwhelming, it's still, do you know what I mean? How are you gonna deal with that then moving forward for the future? Just to just stay focused on my goals and remember what it's all been for, you know? It's not all been for nothing. I've got to get what I deserve out of life. I've got to make it. And if all the stuff that I've been through, I'm not a quitter. I've never quit. I've always fought it and I've always got through and I've always come back better and stronger. So I just make sure that I keep that mindset and just know that I was born to win, you know? How long you're licensed for? I've got six years. I think I've got five and a half left. Yeah, I know, seven. Are you scared that you'll go back in? Yeah, it's a real bad fear to burn it. I think it's subconsciously there all the time. But do you think that could maybe keep you on the straight and I don't know that even one wrong turn. Yeah. You're gonna spend the rest of your life in prison. Yeah. But it's so difficult to. How old are you? 31. 31, so still fucking young man. But it's scary to think that next time you could get done for anything and you'll get into your fucking 40. Do you know what I mean? Because some people just break and end up just accepting that life, accepting prison, accepting the misery of it. And like you say, there's not, as if it's loads of bad people in prison that they're done bad shit. There's just lots of souls, man. Exactly, man. They're broken, like there's some evil bastards out there. Of course there is. They have to be there. Even speaking to the daily, you've still got a good nature. Like people might watch you go, ah, but you shouldn't have done this and that. Listen, you fucking make mistakes. We'll learn from them and go from them. And you know what it is as well. It's like I feel like people just see things and they see things as black and white. But at the end of the day, laugh ain't fucking black and white. There's a lot of gray areas and no one don't look at that. And I feel like people just get penalized for this, that and the other one, just throw a sentence to them, throw a sentence to them. But now we're trying to get to the root of this shit. And I was trying to see why is this happened? How can we stop reoffending? How can we break these cycles? But no one don't care. Prison is a profitable business. More heads on beds. No one don't care about changing the cycle. Do you know what I mean? And it's ultimately, it's not, it's your responsibility to do that for yourself. But then if you've, all you've got and all you know is certain ways that have not helped you, then how are we gonna, you know, how's things gonna change? I just feel like, you know, it's not a lot of people need to just look at things from different angles. I can try and, I dunno, just try and help people, try and help people more. Do you know what I mean? So how does then, how do you then stay out of prison? Like you've been in prison in and out for the last 15 years. You've battled with many things. You've done a lot of things wrong. No doubt you've done a lot of things right. But how do you then focus to stay out? Do you become a liability to yourself? Have you learned a lot? I've learned a lot. You've not made the same mistakes. 100%. You have to be very disciplined, very hard on yourself. You have to make, I have to make choices that I may not want to, but I know that I have to, you know? Like normal things that I would have just gone along with or whatever, because it was natural to me because of what I've grown up around. You can't do it. You've got to be kind of solitary in a way and just stay focused. Think about, look at my family, you know, watch my mom get an old. Think about all the years that I've lost, you know? And just think about stuff like that. Think about all them times when I was stuck in that fucking cell with nothing on my own for years. And just even if it's painful, I have to keep reminding myself of their memories, keep putting myself there mentally to give myself that drive to make sure that I never, ever, ever go back or be around anything or make any kind of, have any kind of mentality or anything, anyone around me that could, you know, jeopardize my future, having a great future. Do you have to go and see a parole officer every week? You've got to sign in. How many times a week? It was twice a week, but I'm one every two weeks now. What about you can't go and hoard or anything? Can't do nothing now. Still shite, but you've still got your freedom. Yeah. I mean, like you can still learn and grow in. Yeah. Like you don't know who watches these sort of things and like for people being on there like, I'm versatile, I'll have anybody on to tell their story that no matter what their past is, no matter what they've done, that it's just for people to, you tell your story, people can make assumptions, like people are genuinely thinking a decent person. Like, do you know what I mean? Like obviously you've made fucking mistakes, but who hasn't? Yeah. They're just trying to get your shit together now. And that's it. What about for the kid who get a bottle smashed in the office space? What if he was watching this? What would you say? He killed himself two years ago. You're joking? Mm. Oh, that's sad, innit? Yeah. It's crazy. Crazy. Shit. She's obviously battling his own shit as well. Yeah, so then I'm sitting there in jail thinking, I'm doing this sentence as well and I use it for someone that's not even about. And I'm just thinking, this is just fucking crazy, you know? Everyone's going through something and it's just about, I just can't let it define you or beat you. Yeah. Obviously that family's going through a lot as well. It's not as if you're here to glorify the stories, you're here to just tell your story. Yeah. Like you've made you mistake, I'm not sitting here glorifying it. You'd like to say you take responsibility. Obviously you feel hard done by and rightly so for everything you're saying is legit, do you know what I mean? But it's just, innit, my entire life. What's even you found out that boy was dead, obviously? Like, what are you then thinking? Does party ever think, like, you don't want to obviously think, oh, I'm here because of him because you've still done it. You'd like to say you still love to dig the ass and you've still done it. But was a party ever think that it could have been because he went through? No. No, I don't think so. No. So where do you go for the future then? No, I'm just like, obviously I was ahead just before. So I've just been refreshing on that. I'm working in a salon, I'm doing lashes now. Just trying to just build and working, thinking about branding and stuff like that at the minute to be my own boss and just to have got a great, my client base is like blowing up as well. So I'm just, yeah, I'm looking to just build an empire and just win. Good on you, man. It was your brother, Leo, mess who's been sending me a few articles, read a few of them. That's good. I was like, oh, for fucking that. But she's perfect for this, you know what I mean? But obviously speaking to you, you can tell you wear your hat and your sleeve as well, like you can tell if you're somebody's friend, you're going to fucking die for them, basically. You've obviously moved through under the bus a lot of times. But again, like you say, you've got to take responsibility because it's still your actions. We all have choices at the end of the day. Even though if it's only the choices you know, it's about time sometimes put your hands up and say, you know what, I'm going to make better choices. How do I work on it? How do I work on it? Get help, speak to people and hopefully people can point you in the right direction to make changes like, do you still going to go and speak to people about your past and your trauma and your pain? I'm not sure. Because to be honest, like when I started the tiktok and I put a couple of things out there and then people wanted to know like more things and stuff like that, I felt like mentally it took me to a place back there and then it made me, I feel like it started to make me feel a bit depressed. But then I thought, you know, this is my story at the end of the day. And I've got a lot of experience that could help people. And I'm very passionate about injustice. I've seen so much stuff go on that's not fair. You know, the whole IPP thing that's been abolished and so many people still left in the system on that. The whole, I'm trying to raise awareness of the Jenga campaign, the joint enterprise for murder that's, they're trying to, that's going up in Parliament now. So many people left in doing life sentences for that. I really do want to, I am really passionate about trying to raise awareness of all this kind of stuff, just to make some noise really, for the kind of, for the people that can't, because I've been there, you know? So I think maybe, yeah. You're still in contact with people from the jail? Not allowed. Are you not? Why? Association? People, I know people's come out and home leaves, had a photo with somebody who was active, bang. Bang back in. A way they finished their sentence. Association? Yeah. Is that association or is it just, you're just not allowed? I'm not allowed any contact with any serving prisoner. What about people who's on home reliefs? Or not, I don't understand. It's just being in prison. If they're out, yeah. Not if they're in. Which is a shame, because I've got a couple of friends, you know, that I've done a lot of time with, that you've come so close to, you know? And it's fucking sad. It's not worth it. This is what my brother was saying. My brother said, I'm like, so many times where I've said, Nia, you can't do it. It's not worth it. This is your life now. You would have to finish your sentence. Yeah. For what? For what? Yeah. It's mad, isn't it? You're constantly on eggshells, then? Yeah, I do, I do. I feel, it's mad because I, part of me feels like I'm constantly on eggshells, but then the other part of me just feels like it's split, because I feel a bit like that. And the other part of me just feels so confident and so like strong, because I know that I'm not going back. I know what I'm on. I know who I am now, and I'm confident in determining where I'm going. Do you know what I mean? What sort of medication are you on now? I'm on medication four. It's like, oh, what is it? It's my ADHD. So it's like... Mentholphenidate, it's like I've got like speed in it, that kind of calms you down. They said, I've got like, she was like, you're the most extreme case of ADHD I've ever seen. And she said, I've never really trusted medication and stuff like that. I never wanted to take it, but she said, trust me in it. It's medication to change your life. And yeah, so I take that now. It helps me concentrate better, keeps me more, less kind of up, down, scatty and can concentrate on things more, get tasks done, stay focused. And growing forward now as I'm an adult, it's very important for me to do that. I'm not young and thingy like wild anymore. Do you know what I mean? It's all about going forward, staying focused, getting your shit together and winning. What is your TikTok stuff? Social media platforms in case anybody wants to get in contact. Yeah, so it's Nia921 is my TikTok. My Instagram is Nia9A, N-I-I-A inspired. And yeah, I'm just, that's my thing. And I'm, yeah. And obviously I'm trying to build up my brand for my hairdressing and my lashes and stuff like that. I'm gonna be posting stuff like that on TikTok. Unfortunately, obviously I've started the TikTok and then it's blown up from the stories. But then sadly my dad passed and then that had happened kind of at the same time. So I haven't really been posting much stuff since then because it's been... Yeah, sorry to hear that. Thanks, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, you've got to kick on, babe, and just fucking keep your head above water. Man, trying to do the right things. Like, there's people going to prison, you've clearly spent enough time in fucking prison to know what it's about. Yeah. You screw it up and change your life, then you go around prisons, you help young offenders, you go around children's homes. That's all I wanna do. You might just... You have something, a little bit of fucking inspiration. Could just change their whole... Yeah, don't make the same mistakes that I've done. Let's treat you all that pain and misery to try and make better changes like... 100%, I really wanna try and be able to do that for people. But you can if you think they're not. Do you know what I mean? Neha, would you like to finish up on anything, my love? Mm. I don't know. Nah, you've promoted everything in that anyway. Yeah. Like I say, coming today, just fresh out of prison. Just try to change your life and get your own story across and try and learn from your mistakes. Yeah. Like I say, none of us are perfect, man. I say, and you can't, but you can't let it define you. You've got, we've all got choices, haven't we? Exactly. Listen for coming on and then telling your story. Hopefully you stay out of trouble. I wish you all the best for the future. God bless you. Thank you. Take care. Nice one, James.