 in the lobby. I've been doing the show in the lobby of the public theater for 11 years and the public theater has been very helpful, big thanks to the public theater, and HowlRound came on a few years ago to help us livestream. They are now helping us do it live from our, from my little living room slash office slash dining room slash play area. And you guys are home too. I hope, I hope you're home. So basically what this is, is it gives you guys time to ask me questions about your writing, your work, your creative process. We are going to work together for 20 minutes and we are going to then talk for the remainder of the time about your work and your creative process. We won't have time to critique specific works that you might have written or whatever, but we will have plenty of time to talk about process and hopefully the idea is giving answers that will help not just the questioner, but everybody. Raven, where are you? You have such a beautiful sunshine behind you. Where are you? She's somewhere sunny. I'm in New Jersey. Oh, wow. I'm in New York. It's so cloudy here. You're so sunny there. Amazing. Okay. Okay. Now that we got those really important details out of the way. Raven's in New Jersey where the sun is shining and we are, we, the sun is always shining. Here we are. Oh no, there's one, there's one more thing. Audrey, you have to tell us how to get in touch. I'll let you know. Hi, everybody. Welcome to week three. So if you are in the zoom, you can ask questions by raising your hand. How you do that, not physically. You will click a button on your screen that says raise hand. It should be under a participant tab if it's not immediately viewable. If you are watching on HowlRound.tv, what you'll do is you will tweet at us on the public theaters, Twitter or Instagram, or you can tweet at us at watch me work SLP, hashtag HowlRound, H-O-W-L-R-O-U-N-D. And that's it. Fantastic. Okay. So we will start working for 20 minutes and then we'll take it from there. And here we go. Okay. All right. So we did the action part. And anybody have any questions about your work, your creative process? Maybe. Yep. Anybody? Yeah, we've got one from Sina. Oh, hey Sina. Go for it. Hi. Hi, Lori Parks. Hi there. Hey, so the other day, you very kindly recommended I use outlining to help kind of get the train going with my writing so it's not, it's really going at the heart of the story. And I'm kind of, it's been really helpful in that it's actually kind of putting things in order that I've kind of already written. But I feel like I'm kind of realizing that my play is like a family play. It's about like a son coming home and the loss of a patriarch and having to kind of like be who we need to be for his family at the cost of like his art. And I feel like the mom and the sister, the woman characters, like what they want is kind of like ancillary to like the story. Like what they, like, and their scenes are not really connected to like, to that story I just told you, but more to like a different story. And I'm wondering if like, I should like retool what they want so it kind of fits that single storyline narrative or kind of almost expand the play. Right, right. Or it sounds like Sina you're noticing that maybe the play isn't, you know, quite fully developed enough, you know, like if you think of Hamlet again, right, again, because we always go back to Hamlet, you know, what Hamlet wants, right, what Claudius wants, what Polonius wants, what Rosencounst, Cranston Gilmister wants, and then they're just off the top of my head, two female characters, they're not mother and daughter, but, you know, Gertrude and Ophelia, right, what they want. They don't want the same things as Hamlet or Claudius or Polonius or Rosencranston Gilmister, right. They don't want the same thing, but they do want things that do feed into the big river of the story. Right, right. So they don't want something that's out here somewhere. That doesn't mean that they don't have wants that are specifically and uniquely their own, right, but they do have things that they want that are in keep, you know, are going to dovetail with the rest of the story. So when you're watching a scene with Gertrude, she and she, there's hanging out in her chamber or whatever, and she's like, maybe I'm just remembering the play. She's like, what are you looking at, son? He's like, I think I see my father's ghost, you know what I mean? I mean, so the everything is feeds into the big river of the story. Right. So I would say spend some time on your female characters and just focus on what they want and maybe your first or second pass at what you thought they wanted isn't enough. Right. You see what I mean? Yeah, like, I'm just kind of clarifying for myself how it feeds into that bigger river. Yeah. Yeah. Because if it's, if it's, I think if it's, you know, if it's going to be all of a piece, then it would be more satisfying to have everybody sort of in the same, you know, kind of thing. Right. Yeah. That was kind of what my next question was going to be like, it's almost like it's kind of different plays if it's not. Right. If it feels like it's a different play, then yeah, you might need to do some work on it. Right. That's interesting. Great. That's really, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you. Sure. Sure. Good question. Thanks. All right. Next we have. Hi. Can you hear me? Okay. There we go. Yes. Hi. Hi. Thank you so much for, for your generosity and accessibility, especially now during these times. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. My question is sometimes my dialogue is sometimes too much on the nose. And I wanted to know how to go a little, create a little bit more subtext, more nuance and go deeper. And how would I mine that? Is it in more drafts or how would, what's your advice to going about? That's a really good question, Christine. So when it's on the nose, give me, do you have a line in mind that you? It's just scenes. I feel like, you know, they're saying what's on their mind too much. And I, I would like a little bit, I guess, more subtext. Maybe I have to, maybe when I, another question I had is sometimes when I'm writing, I, I, I'm not always writing with the, with what my character's actions are in mind, you know, I have an, I outline all the time, but not so detailed. Sometimes I start writing the plot of the scene. And then I'm like, Oh yes, what does he want or what does she want? And, and then they start sort of communicating. And I feel like it's too clear or it's, it's too obvious. And I'd like to give it a little bit more mystery and nuance and subtext. So that involves the audience a little bit more. Right, right, right. So it sounds like you says they're saying what's on their mind a little too much, right, which is on the nose, you know. Yeah, I would, I would want, I wonder if they're saying what's on your mind a little too much. You know what I'm saying? So to get sort of outside, out of ourselves and into the character, you have to not necessarily do a more detailed outline. You don't have, you don't have to do that. It's just that you have to start thinking of the character you have to get out of yourself. Right. And you have to really walk around in their shoes, deeply, in the deep way. Do you understand, do you understand? So then you'll understand things like, Oh, she wants to go to, she wants to go for a walk in the park. It's easy, right? But if you know more about her, you'll know that she's, she, she has that thing that that I'm scared to go outside thing, what is it called agoraphobia? Not angoraphobia, it's agoraphobia. Right. So she has agoraphobia. So that's an obstacle. And then maybe a friend, you see what I mean? So a character wants something. But the more you know about them, you will discover how it's not just a simple, a simple as saying, Hey, pass me the salt. I want this because I want the salt. You know, you understand what I mean? So I wonder if you need to dig deeper into your characters. Okay. Not not deeper into your plot. Because you're great. You got the outlining thing down and you seem to enjoy it great. But now you got to lay off that and dig deeper into your characters, get really specific with your characters. And if you, you know, again, you can go to classic plays if you want, you know, what is, again, what does Hamlet want? You know, and then it, why does it take him five acts to get it? Right. Right. So because there's some things going on. And he's got to be artful as we all are in achieving our goals. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So step out of yourself a little bit more or step into the characters more. Okay. So you think you're talking from where they are instead of where you are? Yes. Thank you very much. Try that and kind of come back and see if it works. Let's see if it works. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Christina. All right. Up next, we've got Anna. Anna. Are you in mute? Hi. I found that if I stop my video, you can hear me better. Is that working? Hi. It's working great. So I had a question about adding in projections as text. I'm doing a more, you know, the dance theater experimental thing and I'm trying to figure out how to layer in images behind the character without diverting the audience's attention away from the action on the stage. Right. That's pretty cool. It sounds like it's going to be a great show, Anna. Getting excited. These are the reboot. This is great. It's great. So have you had, has feedback been that the images on the screen kind of upstage the action? Well, I haven't, I debuted this like a year and a half ago just the first 12 minutes of it because it's primarily dance. Set up like Nickelodeon. So I'm using song text from popular songs but just sang them. Now I'm adding in other stuff and I didn't have time to put projections in, but I always had the thought to do it. But usually that's beyond my budgetary reach, but now I'm planning to have it. And I'm just wondering if that's a ridiculous plan because there's so much that's happening on stage. It's basically a duet with a 50-pound bag of sugar. So I'm just trying to figure out how to make the moment so that the screen behind is dancing as much and is acting as much as the character in the middle of the stage. So yeah, or you don't want the screen upstage to pull our attention so we're not, so we don't know where to look, right? Precisely. Okay, okay. I would say probably sparingly, use those images sparingly. Okay. I mean, if you've got a lot going on in the dancing and the live action, I would say if you have too much going on in the background, like if I had someone right now, like my son, I gave him his iPad, but if you were running back and forth, it would be hard for you to focus. Right? If he was standing there, it would be easier. Okay. And he's not there at all. It makes it even easier. You know what I'm saying? What you want is to have a little bit of movement, right? Okay. Maybe if you have lyrics to songs, use repetition. Okay. That's good. You see, I'm kind of, you know what I mean? This is okay. See in my hand is the repeated lyrics. You see, it's not that distracting. Right. Okay. And the rhythm is good. Yeah, yeah. And don't give the audience, you know, too many, you know, you don't want people doing this, unless you do, and then you should do that. Well, I typically do that, and I'm trying to do something I don't normally do. Just sparingly, I think. And try and try it out. You're gonna have to try it out with your audience or your producer and see what's gonna work best, you know? Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. And okay, next we've got Julian. Julian? Hey, how are you? So, my question is about how you attack a rewrite after a messy first draft. What is the, how is the, how do you first approach it? I have a really messy first draft of a play, and I'm not sure it's a nonlinear play, so it doesn't follow a timeline. It's sort of all over the place. I'm trying to figure out how to attack it in a way that is not making me crazy. Right. Great question. And thanks for the beautiful background once again. Yes, okay. What is this? Dolly Parton had a, has a quote that says, if you want a rainbow, you got to put up with a little bit of rain. So, yeah, definitely. Lovely. So we're all putting up a little bit of rain these days. But yeah, so, so, well, so it's your verb is interesting. Julian? Yeah. Attack. Yeah. I feel like I need a knife or something. Attack, how do I attack? I'm going to attack it with a knife. I attack it with a knife. I attack it with, I probably would attack it with a spoon or something. Okay. Gently. You know, if, if, so if you've written a very messy first draft, you have it, have you printed it out? Yes. Great. Okay. Have you, it's, it's been a little while since you've read it? Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. So now you, you set some time aside. I don't know how many hours do you think it would take to read it? Maybe two hours to do a reading of it? No, no, no, just read for yourself. Okay, great. So you set some time aside for yourself, right? And you read your, your script out loud all the way through, you know, just read it. Maybe if you want scribbling some things, you're not rewriting, you're just reading and jotting down things on the page that come to you, you know, gently, gently, gently, you attack it with a spoon, feed yourself, make it gentle, you know, then just start, then look at it and go, okay, so what do I like? What's working? You know, you're, you're your own workshop at this point, right? I do this all the time. I do this much. I spent many more hours in a sort of a self-contained workshop at home than I have in actual workshops involving actors and directors. And even though that's great and so helpful, I do a lot of workshopping at home. So what do I like about my play or my novel or my screenplay or my song or whatever, you know, what do I like about it? What's working? Yeah, what's working? Okay, I love this and this and this and this and this and this and you can, and then, okay, what's, what's bumping? Where do I, what's not working for me? You know, what would I like for it to be? You know, what would I like it to be? You know, and just go about it like that. So it's kind of, it's like you, you want to, you want to attack it, you want to, you want to revisit, you want to visit it again, like you would a friend that you haven't been able to hug in a long time, right? Yeah. So you, oh, hi, hey, hey, you're looking good. Oh, that happened. Oh man, sweat, I'm sorry. Yeah, but you know what, yeah, you want to start a conversation with this piece, okay? You want to take that verb attacking and change it into something that's more better, more better, more effective. Okay. Attack, you know what I mean, right? Attacking is something we, I mean, I use for, you know, we want to attack, you know, a foe, your script is not a foe. Your script is one of your bestest friends. Right. And they love you and they're so appreciative of you and you're appreciative of them and they just want to, they just want to improve. That's all. You know, okay? So try those kinds of things, okay? Thanks so much. Thank you. Good question. Okay, next we have Patrice. Patrice. Oh yeah. Are you unmuted? Yes, I am. Thank you very much. Hi, Patrice. Hello. Thank you very much, Susan, for having this session. Very great. So my question is sort of about two things, character development and character interaction. I'm working on a screenplay that involves two women sort of like at slightly different points of their sort of like Hollywood career. And because of that difference, one being more successful, one being less successful, there is hostility. And so I'm trying to create this dark comedy about like these two women who are sort of like obviously smiling at each other, trying to be friendly, because they've just been around each other for so long, but the hostility sort of bubbles over into something pretty dark. So my main question is how do you create like that sort of character development and interaction where it's like the characters are complicated and they're sort of like dealing with a lot of like messed up stuff in their industry, but at the same time, you don't want them to be, to turn off the audience too much. It's sort of like a balance between making characters compelling and like kind of dark and messed up, but not going too far. And what would be too far, Patrice? I mean, the only thing I can really say is like based off of other characters that I've developed, there's always been a concern with, oh, these characters are a bit too sniffish at each other. You know, I don't, I've had people think or say that, oh, these characters, they're so, they're like too mean. I don't know if I really want to watch this. So I'm sort of going off of that kind of feedback. Well, I mean, I think the first thing, I think you pretty much know what you're going to do. You got to, what you got to do is get deep in your characters and create a reality for them. You know, give them very clear things that they want, right? I mean, all that character work that we talk about all the time, right? So you want to give them very specific things that they want, very specific reasons, maybe that they don't like each other, you know, so they're not just throwing shade for no reason. Maybe there's a particular beef that they have because it's something that happened maybe in the not too distant future or maybe in the distant future, I don't know, but make it very specific. So when they are sniping at each other and arguing with each other, it's coming out of something real and something deep. Instead of just people, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Because that's kind of, that's not satisfying to watch for a long period of time. Yet people with a real beef, it is really interesting. Have you ever seen the movie Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? I haven't, but I really should. It's, right? Isn't that a movie with Betty Davis and Joan Crawford? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Julian's seen it. Yeah, right? So those are, I think, those are, you know, the classic, you know, two women who don't like each other, you know, they're fascinating to watch. Like you just sit there going, wow, look at them, look at them go, you know. I really believe, Patrice, that if you ground your characters, issues, beefs with each other in real stuff, then it will produce conflict that's really interesting to watch. Okay, thank you very much. You're welcome. All right, up next we have Elena. Hi, thank you so much for doing this. I've been here since week one. It's been so much fun every day to do. So thank you. Okay, so my question is, I've been running plays for about five or six years now. And I find that when I start, I have this like, I don't know how to, it's like a comfort scene that I usually start with. And I find that now, like all my plays have a very similar scene in them. It's like very similar in language, very similar in rhythm. I use a lot of repetition. It's kind of very quick back and forth. I find that there's like lots of conflict, but it's kind of like the similar scene. So how to kind of break out of that when starting and then how to differentiate it between all my plays. Yeah, so you have a kind of scene that you start with and what do you call it? I call it like a comfort scene because it's kind of like my starting point. A comfort scene, which has conflict in it. A comfort scene. I've never heard of that. That's pretty cool. Do you think you're being specific to the play that you're writing each time? I don't know. I just, it's kind of like I just hear like these voices and then I just write them, but it's kind of like the voices are always the same at the beginning. And then as I kind of go on and as I write, they start to differentiate themselves. But I don't know, I'm not sure if I should like feel bad that it's a starting point or just accept it at this point. Yeah, I mean, I would just, I mean, if it's the same, if it's a different, if it were the same scene over and over and over in one play, then I would say maybe you need to do something about that. But if it's, if it's, maybe it's just your thing, you start plays like that. Yeah. I mean, you can always, always go back in your rewriting and cut the scene out. So if you start with your comfort scene and then things get rolling, you can cut the comfort scene out. Maybe it's just what you need to do to get started. And then you're off to the races. You can cut it off after the fact, like training wheels, maybe they're just your training wheels, you know, cut them off if you want or accept it. That's what you do. That's your thing. It's okay. Did somebody tell you not to do that? No, I think the voice in my head just keeps telling me that I need to stop it. Oh, oh, tell the voice in your head that when they start writing, they can give you some substantive notes. Cool, cool. The voice in writing, the voice is just talking. But cool, cool. Thank you. Good question. All right. We actually have some questions from, from social media. Miranda, are you able to pop up and give us one of those questions? If she's not, I will move on. Miranda will come back to you. Thea, do you have, do you have your question ready? Thea, from HowlRound, actually has a question for you. I do. I can. Hey, I, I'm wondering about any tips for digging into more emotional depths of feedback that I get on my writing a lot is that it's like clever and quippy. And I, I want to go a little deeper for myself than in my writing. So I'm wondering about how to, how to start. Yeah, great question. Are there, are there subjects that would bear such a load? You know, I mean, I mean, for example, you know, I mean, like if you're going to the store and you have a list of things that you want to buy and you're going to get all deep about that, maybe not. You know what I'm saying? So you clever and quippy about your verses list, but do your subjects that you're dealing with, do they feels like they could benefit from this deeper? I think so. I think so. I think I tend to avoid the emotional depth by getting goofy or funny or snappy. And so I do I want to, I just want to allow more access to that, I guess. Right, right. Huh. I don't know. I mean, you know, say if somebody, oh gee, I don't want to use an example that's such a difficult time these days, you know, using little examples. You read the news and you see the, you see the video of the brother who got pulled off the bus by like seven cops. And I think Philadelphia for not wearing a face mask. And I'm like, okay, you know, who knows the circumstances, but that's all I saw. Maybe start a lot. I mean, can you read the news and like feel deeply for things that you read on the news? Too deeply, probably. Too deeply? Yeah. Good. Good. Good. Then so that means that you're not someone who can't feel things because some people can't. I mean, they just wall themselves off for probably all the right reasons, you know, some people are, they need that to get through but if you can read the news and hear, or hear a story someone's telling you and feel that pain of the world, great. All you have to do is now just look at your play and see that in your play. I mean, you have to, number one, you have to go, you have to choose a subject that is going to invite that kind of intensity. That's number one. So again, you can't just do like, I'm going to do the laundry, you know what I'm saying? You have to choose a subject that's going to invite that kind of intensity or, or then it's just gratuitous and kind of just emoting just because you want to show off that you can do that, right? So it has to be high stakes, not necessarily life or death, but it has to be very meaningful, something meaningful, and allow yourself to go there. If you feel yourself going, ha, ha, ha, feeling quippy, ha, yeah. Stop. Stop. Right? Okay. And oh, no, I'm not. Let me take a breath. What's the character really feeling? If you come up with a joke, take another breath. You have to get down below here. You have to get underneath. You have to get down to here, right? To feel that. Because when we cry, you know, and throw up, it comes from a deep place. You have to access that, okay? In your own work, right? Try that. And then you'll be crying all the time. You'll wonder, how do I write friends? Sounds good. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Good question. Thanks. Yeah. All right. We figured out what happened with Miranda. I didn't unmute her. Here we go again. Miranda. You're kidding. Okay. Hi, Admiral P. Hey. All right. We have a question from Simon. It's one of our, submit it via Instagram. Okay. Who wants some advice about story? And Simon asks, when forming a story, where do you start? Well, to quote the sound of music, let's start at the very beginning. It's a very good place to start. Simon, I start with whatever, right? Sometimes it's a title, like fucking A was a title. Sometimes it's two characters, ha ha ha, and a joke. Sometimes it's just, wow, I'd really like to write something about a slide or a hole. Whatever you got, Simon, whatever grabs your attention is good enough to start. There's no rule that you have to start, like, you know, with a character who has a story and all that, and you don't have to. And it can vary from project to project. One project, you might start character, next project, you might, a title might kind of catch your imagination and you might turn that into something. So you can start wherever you want. Isn't that awful? You have choice. Thank you. All roads are going to lead to the sea. All roads lead to the river. That's it. Amazing. Amazing. It's true. Amazing. The next person we have is actually two Chris's with their hands up. So this person is not Chris McNally, just to be clear. Sorry. Okay. Okay. There we go. Chris. Hello. Hi. Hi. So my question is, I've written first drafts of a couple short scripts, but I'm having difficulty working on my follow-up drafts. And I feel like whenever I rewrite it, I'm making it worse. And I've tried going in different directions, but it feels like I'm writing different plays then. And then I follow those impulse, but that impulses, but then it doesn't really feel like I finish my scripts. So. Right. Well, congratulations for writing that first draft. Thank you. Really great. Really great. And not easy. Not easy. Which do you like better? Do you write, do you enjoy writing first drafts or rewriting better? Which just first drafts. Right. That's why you write them. Yeah. And you don't rewrite. You got it. You got it figured out, Chris, except, yeah, the problem is, is that you got to learn rewriting. So the first you got, you got the first kind of courage down, right? The courage of writing. You got it. You're good. Now you got to get this kind of courage down. I would suggest, so we talked to Julie in a minute ago, you know, you read over your script. So have you done that before? You've read over the script. Okay, great. And then you can, just on a piece of paper, what's the story I play? Right? Just ask yourself some simple questions. What's the story of my play? Who's the main character? What do they want? What's in their way? What are they trying to do to get what they want? You know, what scenes do I like? What scenes don't quite work yet? Do I like where they end up? Where would I like for them to end up, if I don't like it? You know, so you got to ask yourself questions that are going to keep you on the path. Okay, instead of like, look over here. Who cares? You know, like we said the other day, Rumi says, wisdom is knowing what to pay attention to and what to ignore. So you want to, you want to focus. You want to focus. Okay. It's just rewriting as a skill. And you're learning it. Okay. And that's just part of your journey right now. You're learning what you want to, and anything you come around, come, you're reading your script, and this is for Julie. And also you come across something that you really like. Circle it. Yay. I like that. Right? You come across something that doesn't work for whatever reason. Ooh, I need to expand that. Oh, whatever. You just start doing your workshop in your, just by yourself, you know. Right? Does that make sense? Yeah, cool. Okay. And maybe set yourself a deadline. Okay. I'm going to rewrite this and to this play or whatever in two weeks, or this teleplay, whatever in two weeks, you know, I'm going to write work on like, three pages a day. Set yourself, so it's not too overwhelming. Sometimes we can get very overwhelmed, you know? Yeah. And I think something that I struggle with is that like, often my first draft comes out in one sitting, and then coming back to it, it feels like the writing is no longer as alive as it was when I was writing it in the first place. Right. That's like, you know, the first day is so great. You know, wow, wow. The first day was amazing. Then once I got to know them, it just wasn't as exciting. Yeah, welcome to the relationship you're having with yourself. Okay. You know, and this is, yeah, it's just so amazing. I mean, if it were like, amazing and done, and you were like, yeah, I don't need to rewrite, and you know, you're going to Broadway or on, you know, Netflix or whatever. Great, man, no worries. But if you need to rewrite, then you need to start having a more substantial relationship with yourself. Okay. And yeah, thank you. And it's okay if it doesn't flow all the time. A relationship doesn't flow all the time either. Right? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Good question. All right, we've got four minutes left. We've got Raven. Raven, are you unmuted? I'm unmuted now. Excellent. Okay, so my quandary is I've been trying to figure out the right convention to put a montage on stage. I've never seen it done. I've tried in my own head. I've asked a bunch of people, and I don't, I can't really find anything that will like tell a story of a time lapse on stage. Musicals do it a lot all the time. You know, a musical, a musical put on some music, you know, like a stage musical, put on some music and you'll see him do this and then you'll see him do this and then I was just thinking for some reason about the musical, maybe it's beautiful or something. It's about Carol King that I saw like 10 years ago, whatever. I mean, there she is selling her songs to different people and the door slams in her face. Slams in her face. You know, musicals do it a lot. So that's a good place to look. Maybe some musicals that are filmed. You can look at that. Yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot. So oftentimes, you can imagine, music would help, right? So play it a jazzical. So that that's suiting. Great. Not a popsicle. No, a jazzical. Right. Great. Okay. Well, there you go. So there you go. So you can use music and just, I mean, just like a montage, you're just going to show the essential elements of the story. It's very, yeah, you know, like if she's trying to find the perfect pair of shoes, she goes to one star, boom, nope, sorry, another star, boom, not, I mean, that's a montage. Yeah, like that. You put some music with it and there you go. But it's musicals. Yeah. So you're right on track. Thank you. Thank you. Happy sunshine. I know, I think you're sending some of your sunshine our way. We're getting some. Yeah, it's the after rain. It's coming, it's coming. I'm just, warm earlier. Yeah. I'm so glad it's over. All right, we have one minute left. We want to do one more question. All right. Chris McNally, you are. Hey, Chris McNally. Hello, thanks a lot. You helped me a couple weeks ago. I do narrative poetry with a lot of dialogue and you helped me mix it up to open up, loosen up the knots that I get in certain sections. And so we're on long walks with a paper and pen and worked outside and did different stuff is very helpful. Thank you very much. I am having a lot of difficulty with a woman who's based on Moses. She's today, but she's based on the character of Moses. And I was asking myself what she wants because of what you've been because of your help. And what came to me is she wants to find her voice just like Moses did. Moses had a hard time finding his voice. That's what she wants to do. It still is feeling a little, I'm asking you, is this too, like vague, too general a want for somebody? Her issue is that when she wants to express, she has 500, you know, 500 points of view come to her and they all get stuck. And so she feels like she can't say the clear thing, if you know what I'm saying. But I'm wondering what I mean. I mean, I'm having a hard time finding her voice for her. Let's put it that way. That's really it sounds like a character. It sounds like a Chris. Yeah, I don't think I mean, that's a cool thing too. It's only tricky because I'm finding her voice. So how is it how what actually the sunshine is in here now? What actually do you have her doing? She's she's talking to the portrait of Lincoln on her wall. The portrait of Lincoln is burning, just like the burning bush. The portrait is burning and he's talking to her through the portrait. And she's like, I think you got the wrong decade. I think you should have gone to the 60s. There were some people like Moses. No, I was in the sixth term here. Now you got to finish the freedom. And so and what else is she she's talking. She's talking to the portrait of Lincoln. And what else? What is what is she doing other than talking? In the moment, nothing. She's she just woke up. She was asleep and just woke up. Where does she live? Does she sleep in a bed? She sleeps in a bed. I have her in New York, but I'm not specific. I have her in New York probably. Does she have roommates? No. Okay, you see, I'm asking all these character questions. Like, who is she aside from all she is, for example, huh? I'm sorry. I don't know all she is, for example. Okay, okay. But so that's what I'm just saying. So questions like that, I'm asking character questions. And if you can root the thing she wants to find her voice in specific details, right? Okay, then it would be less vague. It will be more, just it will be more specific. So just think of her as a person with wants and needs and where she sleeps and roommates are not it, you know what I mean? And what does she do for her day job? You know, all those kinds of things. Okay, okay. Yes. And it's and then to see how I see if it develops and gets a little more like, you know, clear. Yeah. Yeah, as you go along. All right. Okay. Okay. Thanks, Chris. Good question. All right. Here we are. 603. Cool. Awesome. Well, as a reminder, please sign up to be in the zoom by three p.m. Eastern time every day. And I'll send you the link between three p.m. and four 30 p.m. Eastern on public theater.org. And we'll we'll see you tomorrow. Thank you.