 Again, if you're afraid to come in and out of the room, as you need to during this last session, I know you're still caught. I'm Mara Robinson. My pronouns are she, her, hers. Yasmin asked me to introduce this panel. And really, this panel came out of our collaboration in talking about the conference as we were planning it. And I haven't seen a proposal come in that had Chicago movers and shakers. And I feel like Chicago is a city of a lot of people who are politically active, socially active, thoughtful about casting, thoughtful about the choices that are going to be on stage and willing to call things out when they see it. And so we haven't seen that. And I said, I'll propose something. And it was this filler. And then as we were talking about it, I reached out to some of the great people I know in Chicago asking them to be here and speak to us about their experience. Yasmin is going to moderate this. And then we'll have some time later on for some breaking out and actually actively trying to strategize. Another thing that Yasmin and I discussed when we were doing this is how sometimes ECDs or panels happen. And you get this panel up there, but you don't really actually really get to talk to them. And we want to break the room apart a little bit so that there is some time to break out into smaller groups with some of our panelists and really strategize about, like, no, how do you make change? How do you start a project that activates people and makes them do something different or gives them concerns? So thank you to our incredible Chicago panelists. And thank you to Yasmin, who's, of course, been amazing all weekend. Woo! Thank you so much for being with us today and holding space. My name, as you may know at this time, is Yasmin Mikael. My pronouns are she, her, hers. I primarily work as a dramaturg, arts journalist, and an oral historian here in Chicago. And I would love each of our panelists to introduce themselves with their names, pronouns if they're comfortable, and a little bit about you and your practice. Hi, my name is Laurie Myers. My pronoun is she, her, hers. And I'm the founder of Not In Our House Chicago Theater community and co-author of the Chicago Theater Standards. You want me to talk about that? Okay. Yeah. Way back when, in my 20s, I knew about a theater. It was written on a wall in the Four Moats Tavern in Chicago. It's like, stay away from this guy because he will try to molest you. I was like, okay, I'm gonna stay away from that guy. That was my 20s, my 30s. Then I started to get cast as a mother in Chicago, you know, about three stories in of hearing that the sexual predator is still practicing and running a successful Chicago non-equity theater. I decided it was time to take some action and I founded Not In Our House. So we began support group action. We created the Chicago, which was called the Code of Conduct. Now it's the Chicago Theater Standards for non-equity code of conduct in non-equity theaters of Chicago that has actually been adapted across the country. And then it puts on the ground action that we hope to work with equity to try to have them change their language a little bit to be not so antiquated and to try to actually help against discrimination, bullying, violence, and sexual harassment to define it and then define what will happen if that code gets broken. So that's me. My name is President Edmund. I'm the co-founder and managing curating producer of Black Lives, Black Words International Project. Black Lives, Black Words was started in 2015 around the time of Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Sandra Bland, and the list goes on and on and on. There wasn't a lot of opportunity for playwrights, particularly Black playwrights to speak out about the various issues that were taking place within our community. And so I felt extremely frustrated and I wondered how many other Black playwrights were also feeling frustrated about the fact that there was not a way for them to speak out. Gatekeepers got a little bit. So I went to the various different theaters, Congo Square, Impact, Pegasus Theater, Black Ensemble, and ETA Creative Arts. And if anybody knows about Chicago Theater, they're super tribal, but I brought them together and we did an event at the Greenhouse Theater and we fire hazarded the hell out of that theater. And so we got even bolder and we expanded. I said, okay, we're gonna take it to the Guthrie Theater. And I called the Guthrie and I said, we're gonna do Black Lives Black Words here at Minneapolis because we needed to talk about this. And if you don't let us in our space, in your space, then we're gonna do it in your parking lot. And so they allowed us into the Guthrie Theater and we fire hazarded the hell out of the Guthrie Theater. I probably shouldn't use the word fire hazard so much, but we fire hazarded the hell out of the Guthrie Theater. And then we got even bolder and we took it to London and we partnered with the Bush Theater to bring it out there. And so far we have expanded our mission to, we've served two continents, three countries, nine cities. We've expanded to doing college takeovers. So now we work with college students to teach them that not just be artists, but also activists and leaders within their own communities. So we do college takeovers. We've expanded out our mission to do, I'll take it a lot. Sorry. We've expanded out our project because we realized that it's not just important to have black artists speak out. So now we do, which was originally called the Fuck Truck Party. My co-counter is a much better marketer than mine. So we bring together artists of color, indigenous of immigrant descent, LGBTQIA and everything in between. And we bring them into a room to speak about what does the American dream? What does their America look like and is this current climate that we're in speaking to them? And we've, everywhere we go, we firehouse that, firehazard the hell out of that place. And also because I'm an entrepreneur, we now have over on books for our books, for our work, our anthologies, with a network of over 300 plus playwrights from all around the globe. I am a gender consultant and dramaturg from Chicago, now working all over, but I got started in this work sort of by accident. I was dramaturging a show about, that had some trans and intersex themes that I then trans myself. And partly through the process, and I was consulting on various aspects of the production, company management and marketing and language for casting notices and all these sorts of things. And partly through the process, one of the producers that I was working with called me up and said, hey, you're doing way more than dramaturgy. We should give you an extra title and more money. And I said, okay. Just this near field was born and I'm kind of making up as I go. But what I do as a gender consultant is basically working on shows with queer trans intersex themes, being a person in the room, to lend a hand in all of the ways that it's needed. Theaters have started to get much better about casting trans actors in trans roles, which is a great start. And yet, often I'm not acknowledging the fact that those actors are frequently being put in a position of having to play out their personal traumas in a room with nobody who looks like them or has had any of that same experience. And so I am someone who goes into the room, does script consulting. Is there a sort of an HR person? Some of the same goals as an intimacy director in some ways. And then also works with marketing. With front of house I do gender 101 trainings for cast, crew, staff, those sorts of things. So that's taken me all over the place in some exciting ways. And it's been exciting to see theater companies and producers embrace the need for this and say, like, yes, this is something that we're going to prioritize. Still trying to do more of that. But yeah, it's a cool start. That's it. Hi, everybody. My name is Artie S. Hawk. I'm an actor, a writer, and a teaching artist. I'm a staff member with an organization called the Chicago Inclusion Project, which aims on bringing together peoples of different race, gender, sexual orientation, and physical ability. And I'm also on the producing board of the Muslim Writers Collective, the Chicago chapter, which is an organization aimed at reclaiming the Muslim American narrative and putting it back into the hands of our own community. We do that several ways. We do that through an open mic series as well as individual training workshops that are specifically aimed at the Muslim community in order to kind of create a pipeline of talent for a typically underserved community. Is that good, or do we want to talk more? Oh, God, okay. So how did I get into this work? I actually, I got into this work on accident. I never felt like as an actor in this industry or as my primary art form that I was asking for anything that I didn't deserve, like equal representation, even just honest representation, the ability to be myself on stage, which is what I think it's like a basic right of all artists. So again, I found it more like an accident. And all of a sudden people kept being like, oh my God, what you do is so radical. And I'm like, I'm just trying to do what that girl's doing. I'm honestly trying to do the exact same thing. And then turning around and realizing that the reason that I didn't have those opportunities is because I wasn't given the access to training, the access to performance spaces, or even having the institutional support in order to have someone say like your story matters in this way. So again, just creating those systems instructors that I didn't have growing up was something that I felt was a given. Like it just should have been there. It's nothing radical. All right. A couple of questions that I have for you folks. Speaking as someone that identifies as an early career dramaturg, I feel my ability to speak up and speak out. I am allowed to basically say what I want because I'm not necessarily institutionally aligned or don't have responsibilities that I am acting on behalf of another institution. So I'm curious when you are attached to entities in that way, if how that impacts how you navigate certain relationships when you are speaking up and if it impacts your ability to take risks because of who you are as both an artist but also who you also may be representing. Yeah, so I would say you just can't give a shit. And you can't give a shit. So I mean, I can say this now because the theater is closed but the Darrow Cox of Profiles Theater was used intimidation, violence, bullying, sexual harassment. He was also a sexual predator. There was underage sexual abuse. So we're supposed to put up with that. So I actually recently just spoke at something that was like, fuck it, I'm gonna say it. You just have to fuck it, you're gonna say it. Like there's going to be 20 people in line behind me who want my job. And if I speak up and say, you guys don't even have like a first aid kit. So Chicago Theater Standards is what we're hoping to like the basics of the basics while also trying to tackle like making a safe space and making a safe space so you can make dangerous work. But you have to say it in the room while it's happening and you have to be brave enough to accept the fact that you may be considered a pain in the ass. Maybe no one wants to cast you anymore but I just couldn't take it anymore. And it was like, it was so egregious and that it was happening in my community was making me ashamed that it was still happening. So how do we make this support network underneath that? That's where not in our house really kind of came out of. So to try to build just the confidence to be able to speak out in the room when you see something happening in real time and just be able to know that you have a community behind you and the Chicago Theater Community is so incredible and snapped right on it. It just took one spark to say, yeah, I know that and I think it's this guy or you're talking about this guy. So to get that kind of outpouring and support, you know that there were other people that were like, oh my God, why is nothing happening over this? And it just has to be that one catalyst you just have to be brave enough to say, that's not fucking right. And it may be that a director is bullying at you or intimidating you or you're not feeling safe or there is actual violence and that's when you have to know that it's just like, you may get fired, you may have a problem created for you as an artist, but you just have to keep going forward, otherwise why are you an artist? Yeah, I totally agree with just having to say it, even though that's really freaking hard sometimes. One of the things that comes up a lot in my work is being asked to consult on new scripts that are in development about trans themes and something that we see a lot of is cis people writing about what they think trans people's lives are, which usually involves a lot of instantly staring into the mirror at the time of the piece. Right, that's all, it's all, we don't have stories that aren't about our transitions. I don't know if you knew, but we just cease to exist, definitely. So I have had to go to producers and theater companies and say like, hey, this script that you've been underwriting that you've been working on for a really long time is irredeemable and needs to be thrown in the garbage. And that's not a fun conversation to have with someone who maybe hasn't signed your paycheck yet, but at the end of the day, and absolutely there's a privilege involved in being able to say that and being in a position to say like, yes, I also have these other jobs, so if you do hate me then, oh well, this is what needs to be said. I do also think that there's a place for, I do also think that there is enough of a hunger in the theater community right now to get things right. That a lot of people who are hiring me are hiring me to be that voice in the room and because they want me to push them. And that is super empowering and helpful and I often become the voice who's pushing, not just on gender issues, but on lots of different fronts just because I'm sort of in the role of agitator at that point, but they're all important fights to be fighting. So on that note, on the note of not giving a fuck, I think that that is a really lovely ideal and sometimes the way that those things manifest can be different. I don't necessarily have the privilege of being able to speak my mind all the time and when I am put in those positions, I gotta throw down every single hundred dollar word I know. I gotta have all of my sources. I gotta have statistics and even that I won't get listened to or will be perceived as aggressive. In fact, recently I have worked with organizations who I was, you know, as an actor, you're like a representative of an organization at the time because you have the least amount of power but you have the highest amount of visibility. So what you say comes under scrutiny and like a hyper amount for that one time when we kind of like put you on the back burner till the next time they wanna put your face on a poster, right? So when you work with organizations like that, there's like both a requirement to speak to the organization but also speak about the organization. So you're kind of put in this awful position where you have such little institutional power but the most burden to bear. And I know that a lot of people put pressure on actors in particular to not work at certain theaters because of their reputation. And I think that that's really awesome but I also wanna focus on what are we doing to kind of help those actors? Like when they're then put out of work because they can't be the most visible person in a problematic institution. And I think that there are so many times where I have tried to take responsibility for being like, yeah, I worked at this institution and I'm not sure if I should have or I have questions about the morality or the ethics of working at a problematic institution as someone with so little institutional power. And then those institutions have turned around and come back to me and taken it as an attack when I myself and my own morals have been the focus. So I think that there's this like really fine line that you have to walk sometimes depending on who you are about like how you can say fuck it. I certainly could absolutely never use the word fuck. You know, it's not something that can come out of my mouth easily. So with that, because you all are people who work in the industry, I would say like there are people who you can turn down to work with and just as many people will line up to work with you because of it. So instead of focusing on the opportunities that you're turning down and saying this is the only way, know that this no, someone's gonna hear that you said no to that project and instead of thinking I don't ever wanna work with them again, they're gonna call you first. So just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a wonderful transition to talking about how when we're moving and breathing in all these spaces that there's a certain exhaustion that can set in for how much labor that we have to do that is totally outside of contracts if we get one to sign. So I'm curious for all of you who are sitting up here with me, what are the ways that you take care of yourself and how do you stay in it for the long haul? I got this, I got this. The privilege of being inside of organizations, I'm usually the one that's coming from outside and pushing in. I like to call myself a theatrical terrorist since so many people post that on my Facebook or whatever, or you're bringing stuff into it. Just one moment. For folks in the room, I want to just interact that we're a terrorist in the way that it comes up in some of our institutions speaking as a Middle Eastern woman that a lot of the times that it can be a harmful word. So just take a moment and just wanna breathe in that and not let it pass. But thank you for being the person that comes from the outside pushing in. And so for me as someone who is getting the brunt of the hits, the death threats, the messages of lies matters now in our theaters, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, what is this? Yeah, so that's something that the organizations aren't getting. They're not getting those death threats. They aren't getting those messages of hatred, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera that I am taking as the organization, as Black Lives Black words. So for me, I have to make sure that the work that I do, after I pull away from it, I find peace by Netflix, by freaking booze. But whatever it's so care might look like, you have to find, you just have to discover what it is that reading, whatever it might be, you gotta just take that and embrace it and hold on to it. Other strategies for taking care? So something that my partner says to me that always really helps me is that to be focused on the intent of action and not the fruits of the action. And one of the ways that I primarily find myself doing that is being involved in community events that are celebrations, right? So like yes, it's important to go to a town hall to a protest, but go to community events that are celebrations and go to other people's community events that are celebrations. And be a respectful spectator, right? Like know how to take up space in someone else's room, be a guest in someone else's house. But I think that when you start to, it starts to become hard when you start to think of all these little things piling up. And the best way to soothe like an angry heart is to go be with people and like share that interpersonal joy, because at the end of the day we can talk about like breaking systems and like evening out money and all that stuff, but it's about people, right? It's about this person, that person and bringing everyone together. So when you're able to be in space that celebrates human connection, suddenly start all those like dumb things start to melt away and you start to remember what really matters and why you are doing this. Cause anyone of y'all could have been a doctor, okay? Y'all chose to be artists, I fully believe that, so. Yeah, I think that focus was really important. I read an article that was a couple years ago that was really impactful on me just about the human brain's tendency to focus on negative as a survival technique. And it is so easy to do in this work to just focus on all the ways that we're not doing enough that the impact wasn't enough that. And safety fears to just sort of dwell in that land, but trying to, I spend a lot of time deliberately redirecting my brain to like, no, here are the things that we are doing well, here are the things that are working, here are the things that the people around that are making me feel safe in this place, and that's a step, but it is a habit that I've worked really hard to cultivate and probably the less than you're doing sort of without it. Yeah, I think it's super important to lock down what those successes are that you've made and recognizing that even as you're pushing forward and even though you might be hitting these various obstacles or oppositions against what you're trying to do and accomplish, you're making steps forward that's opening the doors for others. I think you definitely have to keep that in mind as you're going forward. Yeah, those are all amazing and well taken comments about how to work with self care for sure. I'm not gonna lie, it was really, really, really hard. It was emotionally, physically, draining, demanding. It was a year and a half until profiles closed, but the work is incredibly satisfying. I know that we had to go really strong, hardcore for it was a couple years, and then from there the satisfying work is coming from the Chicago Theater Standards because it is a fluid document, and the training and the kind of work and education that can be done individually with companies and with persons that are experiencing difficulties. I kind of keep my head down and I do the work and I find that incredibly satisfying. I also think it's very important not to monetize it. I've never accepted any money for that work because then it becomes a job and then it becomes a resource to keep seeking so we've never monetized off of it. But I do feel that it's just stronger for me to keep my head down and just continuously keep doing the work to try to, it may not be with a bullhorn, but it is kind of behind the scenes and being able to see where I'm needed or see where my strengths can be used in the community. And I definitely see this as a process of we're all learning and we're all trying to do our best in different ways. So I very much appreciate those tips and figuring out how do we move forward in work that can be so heavy and hit us in different ways and wondering how, what can be put in place to really support us and our organizations. I'm curious since most of you, all of you have been public figures in your work, if there's one piece of advice or idea you feel that you haven't been able to share or feel that super important to share with community of artists who have interests in social change. Can you say that again? Yes. So if there's any advice you would give to artists that are looking to work and make social change? The advice that I could give is, we worked really strongly and not in three silos, but I would say really trying to create three connections with not in our house. Chicago Theater Standards or the Code of Conduct puts on the ground action for knowing your rights. And then finally we're trying to work with equity. So if there's anything that I can say, if you can go back to your equity offices because the work that we're doing is primarily for non-equity theaters, equity theaters have been interested in adapting the Chicago Theater Standards and the principles of not in our house as a movement. The dialogue is there. I think take the dialogue and run with it, but go back to your representative for equity and really try to look at your contracts if you are an equity actor. Look at your contracts and try to see in there how can I add to this document? How can I help change this document? How can I bring this dialogue forward into this document? As I think the movement, it's happening. I think it's in the air. I think the dialogue is there. I think now it's just taking it and running with it. If you believe in it strongly, it's going to create change. It just takes work. I think it's important to dream. I think it's important to, once you've started building that dream to start researching behind it and then figuring out who you can build with that dream, who's willing and able to go on that journey of that dream with you as you're pushing forward. And then from there, once you have a dream, once you've done the research about what it is that you need to do, once you gather those forces around you that will back you, I think it's very important that you stand firm in your hopes, in your dreams, in your goals and you push forward at what, no matter what obstacles might stand in your way. And I think that's something that oftentimes we as artists, we allow ourselves to be beaten down and pushed back by the various gatekeepers or institutions or our friend network or Facebook or whatever else. And I think it's super important that if you have an idea, if you have a dream, if you have a vision to make the world a better place that you stick with it and you push forward. From my perspective, the most important thing that we all need to be doing to make theater for social change is looking at and acknowledging our power structures. And looking at, I think something that's a lot of time, and this is something that the folks on the stage, no one is exempt from, but I think a lot of times what I see from folks in power is saying like, we wanna lift up marginalized voices by doing A, B, and C, but not recognizing or acknowledging the fact that at the end of the day, the only way they can truly do that is by releasing some of their own power. And by making sure that the people sitting at the table and making the decision to lift up marginalized voices are not a homogenous group of people themselves. And that's a really hard thing to do, right? Like we work in a really competitive industry. It's really, really hard to turn down a role that you're not appropriate for. It's really, really hard to, that could potentially be a role that can make your career, right? That's a really hard thing to do. It's really, really hard if you're someone who runs a theater company to say like, hey, I'm not just gonna hire an assistant who doesn't look like me, but how do I actually share that power in a meaningful way? At the end of the day, I don't think we can make change until those questions start being asked and start being asked deeply by every single one of us. And I think at the end of the day, the people who have the most power are going to start asking those questions until they are getting enough pressure to do so. So to me, that's the most important role we can all be playing to, because it's only when that power is meaningfully shared that we can then actually create meaningful art from that place. And actually, piggybacking off of that, I have two things, and it was such a beautiful segue. My first thing is that I truly believe that if you're interested in social work or social change as art, otherwise just known as any art in general, because I do think art is an enemy for life. Then your number one job is to look at your unconscious biases, especially the ones you think you don't have every single day. Everyone in this room, y'all, us, everyone. Because I truly believe that it's a way of life. No one's like, this is my social activism hat and I put it on today for my job as a dramaturg. It's a way of life. And that starts with making sure that you're acknowledging the privileges that you do have and looking to do that. I'm gonna give you one actionable way to do that. And it's to subscribe to news resources by outlets that belong to demographics that you are not a part of, non-traditional news outlets, and read one article a day. Not even from everyone. Just pick one article a day to read on a news outlet that doesn't look like you. So that's my number one. And number two is that being involved in social change requires a deep amount of empathy. And empathy is a muscle. And empathy is not selective. So a lot of times when we talk about social change, it's like us first then, and we're gonna like take down the man and break the wheel, right? However, those are also human beings. And if you choose to be involved in socially conscious work, then you need to still recognize that and treat them with a level of respect. Even he who shall not be named. Even him. And something, I'm gonna share something that comes from my religion, I'm Muslim. Since not a lot of great things get shared about Islam, I'm gonna tell you that in our religion we say that the kindest thing you can do to an oppressor is remove their oppression. So like truly doing this type of work, it's still a generosity. To be like, you're oppressing someone, stop it. It's still a kindness for them. So to think about it that way and how we can do that and preserve the most humanity possible. Because we are quickly running out of it. It's too strategizing because it's a wonderful transition into what we're about to do. So there are five of us sitting up on stage but we want groups to be about six or seven folks to find someone on stage or we have some other LMDA, Martina step in, Marin to facilitate small groups about what are strategies that we're currently doing now in our own communities and what are other ones we'd like to see. And then we'll share back as a group what we are thinking strategy-wise. What are actions that we can take? So take a couple of minutes to assemble and then we'll have about 15, double-checking my time here, about 10 minutes to sit in that group and talk through strategies. All right, go. Let's take a time now to get back to our original seats. And we're going to share out our specific strategies. I really enjoyed listening and hopping into the circles. For the next 10 minutes or so, I really want us to focus on specific strategizing. What are strategies that came up in your sessions about ways to push the envelope, make change, speak up. We're going to have a couple of mics floating throughout. Totally cool if you didn't take notes. Anything that was really sitting with you and hitting your heart and being like, yes, this is something that we can do now. This is something that we can build to. And I'm going to open it up to questions or, sorry, what you're thinking of, your thoughts, your strategies. Hi, my name is Regina. Something that came up in our group was called... Wow, critics? Well, something that came up in our group was a great way with someone who may have a different cultural perspective that maybe matches the story you're telling, while also compensating them well for that work and honoring their voices and a specific tactic, too, of honoring the voices and also saying, help me know what will make this experience invalid for someone watching of that culture and what things I can shift for theatricality just to make those boundaries really clear. And I would take it one step further and say, if you find yourself in a situation where someone in the cast is the only person of that cultural heritage and they're doing a lot of labor or even translating scripts, I've seen that happen, make sure that they are compensated when you see that happening in the room. See if you can go to somebody and negotiate on their behalf before they have to ask. Thank you so much for that. It's interesting because these are the moments that frighten me the most in these kinds of conversations, although because I'm so busy talking, I'm not taking notes and I'm like, crap! But, you know, we had a really interesting conversation about what does it need to invite voices in and not honor them? And so I think, you know, really that is all, you know, like that is in some way step one. If you are going as far as to say that we value a voice, you have to actually value the voice. And if you're doing something that someone says no to, course correct. The main thing is do the course correct. And so one of the things that I wanna specifically say as we move into thinking about our next conference in 2020 is please call me, and I've been saying a lot, just call me on my bullshit. Like if there's something that is happening, because I'm gonna try and be as transparent as possible as we move forward with that conference, like if there's something that's going on and you're like no, Martin, just tell me. I've never been a person that's precious about that. And I don't feel like we can be better and do better as an organization unless someone says, Martin, like no. But one of the things that we were also talking about was just organizational structures in that way too, because one of the things that I think is important is that if people have been elected to do a thing, then you have to trust them to do the thing. And that'll mean that about me. I meant that specifically about my executive board and even the people who are crafting this conference. I try not to micromanage because part of me is like, Martin and you know best, what is Chicago? So why would I interrupt that or interfere with that? Really my job is to listen and honor and try to put as much resource behind that as possible. So number one, thank you too so much for everything that you've done to curate this. But then also on that note, like if there's anything that we can do better, please do not be afraid to call me on my bullshit. So one thing our group talked about a little bit was the idea of within institutions very purposeful choices and actions. And so I come in Ottawa, I work for the GCTC and it is run by two cisgender white men at the moment and they acknowledge that. So our artistic director, he committed to reading the 49 list, which is the Canadian equivalent of the Gilbrom is list, is 49 plays by women of color. And the way that it's set up is that like, the agents information is there, like it's all set up. It's no excuse and he committed to reading them all and we've actually now produced three or four of them. And it's just, yeah, again, just very purposeful and clear choices and acknowledging the their own limitations, right? That's where you start, you know? We got talking about who's it for in terms of audiences and either bringing work to different communities or bringing people into this space. And in the very end, we kind of had a lot of excitement around this idea about having rules about how we're supposed to behave in theater and that there are ideas about, I think in some ways, some people have, because I've been an educator for a long time, ideas that are even more strict than we actually have about how you're supposed to behave in theater, how you're supposed to dress, how things are. And I just think that we can do more to be an easy place to be, to say yes to whoever walks in the door, to go out into communities and bring them in and make a theater that is really responsive to the people who want to engage. One of the things I also think is important about community engagement is that we don't use community engagement like we go to a community and say, we want to hear your voice. And then the moment that that project is over, we're like, nope, we don't really care about you anymore. Ever again. That's who we need you in. They are now part of your culture and honoring that too. So I just want to put that out there, that we'll remember to do that. Offer something real quick. I want to lift up something that Jeffery and Scott said in the Navigating Difficult Conversations on Thursday, which was as we approach moments where our bandwidth is really challenging, that we are at what feels like our extent, that when folks come to us with things that they want to talk about, that if we in that exact moment can't sit down and hear those conversations that you take that moment and literally schedule the meeting, the appointment, you ask who needs to be in the room for this, who do you want here? You don't need that space where this person has come to you with this concern until you have that moment crafted. And that just an acknowledgement and a respect for that complaint. So I just wanted to lift up what we had discovered in that Navigating Difficult Conversations. Round two. So on, because so many of you all are involved in the script selection process, which ends up in season planning, I wanted to offer, again, back to checking biases, the idea that while you're looking for a presentation of other cultures and groups, there might be a lot of blind spots. One of the most common ones we see when we end up talking to theaters after the fact who did a program and something harmful, rather harmful in the season, is that we hear a lot of like, well, this was our selection process. A company member found it and then a bunch of people approved. And they ran it by one or two people of color after it was already approved or already slated to be produced. So one of the strategies that we've seen happen is theaters will employ previous artists, like groups of previous artists that come from those communities to read from place they've selected or offer up place selections themselves. So that you're offering, first of all, you're continuing to employ artists that you've employed in the past, which looks great. It's great for like long-term investment, but also you're getting other people's perspectives who would actually be the people who are, the first people to actually be in contact with the art, right, the people directly. And a lot of times what I mean by the scope of representation is that we still very much see productions that juxtapose the oxidative from the orient, as in people of color who are not Black or Latinx are elsewhere, being people of color elsewhere, showing their culture. And like, or we will strip all people of color from their POC identity and shove them in a classic show where none of that stuff matters or is represented. So trying to move away from both those things and think about like the stories that are plentiful about white Americans and how we can continue to replicate that for other cultures so that they are just as important. You all have such a huge power over that. And it shouldn't wait until the script is selected and first read to happen for you to have other perspectives from that culture in the room. So just wanted to advocate for that. I can start way earlier. Another thing we talked about in our group was about the requirements, the educational requirements for a lot of hiring practices and that this came up specifically in the context of educational institutions and like hiring professors. But I think that it can and should extend to every level of a creative team and every level of an institution that it's not enough to just like put in a job description this degree or equivalent experience because in a lot of situations, one, how do you get that equivalent experience without the degree? And also you can say that, but then you get applications and you're looking at applications and there's an applicant with the degree and an applicant without the degree. And then there's the inherent bias that leads you to hire the person with the degree anyway. So a strategy that came up in the context of hiring, perhaps like less experienced directors or creatives for a theater festival was they institutionally built in a lot of additional supports about into finding the space and casting processes to enable them to hire people that maybe didn't have specifically theatrical directing experience or similar things. And I think that adding those support structures to enable you to hire people without formal education and expand the playing field that way is a strategy to apply. Also, I think another thing that's important is the fact that oftentimes when these larger organizations bring in culturally diverse or partner with culturally diverse organizations, there's a lack of trust that that culturally diverse organization will be able to handle the things and do the things that is necessary to make the show come to life. And I think one big major move that organizations can take is to trust the artists of culture to do the things that is necessary to make the thing work, just trust. We have time for a couple more brief shout out strategies. It's quite a bit of a choice. One of the tools that I found really helpful in asking questions about my own unconscious bias is the Angel White supremacy framework, which Art Equity brought to the pre-conference a couple of years ago. But it's been really helpful in not only thinking like, okay, so I have unconscious bias, what is it? But how does it physically show up in my space? How does it verbalize in my space? And also asks really pointed questions about ways that I can change that. Thank you. Sorry, what was that? The anti-white supremacy framework. If you Google it, it's free and like shows up and it's successful, yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for shouting out all of your strategies. There were a lot of resources that came up in this time. Thankfully, our lovely friends at HowlRound have been streaming us in. Artists that shared their time, their labor, their energy to be with us this morning. 15 minute break until the next thing, so please feel free to take care of yourselves in those times. Check the schedule to see if we've had a little bit of updates. Also, on the fly, I've decided that we're gonna post a big piece of paper that we can write more strategies on if you didn't have a chance to grab the mic so we can get a little more documentation in the room and move that way. So thank you so much for your labor. Feel free to put any more words